Las Vegas Sands Corp. (LVS) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

All right. Good afternoon, everyone. We're excited to have with us the management team from Las Vegas Sands for our next fireside chat session. With us, we have Rob Goldstein, Chief Executive Officer. We have Patrick Dumont, at least on audio now and pretty soon video, who is President and Chief Operating Officer. And sitting with Rob in the back is Dan Briggs, who quarterbacks Investor Relations. Thank you, gentlemen, for joining. And before we start the fireside chat session, I just want to extend my condolences again on Sheldon passing. Obviously, he was a legend in the business, a success story. And on a personal level, I know you guys have had very close relations. And so it's personal and professional. And I wish my condolences to Miriam and the family.

Thank you very much.

One good thing Sheldon did is that he had built up an ample and fulsome management team. So we know that the business is in good shape since then.

Thanks, Joe. I appreciate that. On both accounts, thank you.

We probably want to spend a lot of time talking about Macau and Singapore. And if we kind of maybe don't talk about it, I might not have enough time to talk about it, and something that happened more recently, the agreement to sell The Venetian and The Palazzo, to sell Las Vegas to Apollo and VICI. I don't think anybody was surprised necessarily that a transaction happened. But I want to say most investors probably were surprised at the healthy price tag you guys were able to get. So kudos there. Maybe just taking a step back, Rob, can you talk about the process in reaching the decision to divest that of Las Vegas strategically? I think I kind of know what you might say in terms of the contribution to profits there. And strategically, how do you think about what's next in terms of a pretty substantial pile of proceeds there to sort of invest in a bunch of different ways? So what are the things that you're thinking about or working on and maybe deploying them into an area in which you can get a pretty good return?

Well, the sale, Joe, as you know, for me was a bit bittersweet because we spent a lot of time and effort back in the '90s developing Venetian and Palazzo. But the idea really began with the thought that a couple of years ago, someone approached us that signed Las Vegas for, we thought, an outsized price. And when Patrick and I sat with Sheldon, I don't know, 6, 7 months ago and talked about it, he was very specific in his direction and his thought process and that being if the price were adequate, in his mind -- adequate meant at least $6 billion. I think it may have been $7 billion at the time, actually, but he wanted to -- clearly, we weren't giving it away at 3. This nonsense about -- I was talking about 4 or 5, Sheldon wouldn't have done that. So one, it was a price-driven transaction. It had to be the right number. Two, we're fans of Las Vegas. And we'll remain domicile. The company remains there. Patrick and I both live there and we're fond of it. Our corporate team remain in there. But we believe the world is changing and is changing in a way that benefits us. Leaving Las Vegas, as you referenced, is a smaller part of our business. 90-plus percent of our EBITDA resides in Asia. What we saw Las Vegas as is a chance to take a very good return. If you add the mall sale from years ago and the EBITDA less CapEx over the years, it was a very healthy transaction for us, much like Pennsylvania was. And we felt it frees us up from the Las Vegas market, albeit a good market, a market that we thought was tough to grow a lot more EBITDA and become much higher. Yet we see the world is very opportunistic, both in the U.S and, of course, in Singapore and Macau. I believe the Macau government, as part of this license renewal process, will come to us and mandate or ask us to spend more dollars, large capital dollars to grow our business, which we'd be delighted to spend as much as they want. Our Londoner, as you know, is nearing completion. It's pretty extraordinary. The market, I don't think it understands what's happened to Londoner. Those who have seen it, our competitors now know. And the same deal with our Four Seasons. We believe Macau is a big growth market for us, far beyond what we're doing previously. We'd love to deploy more capital in that market. As you know, we have a contract with the government in Singapore to expand our business there. That's a $2-plus billion and growing market. And lastly, we think there may be more opportunities in other markets in Asia. I know that we pulled out of Japan, but there might be something else happening in Asia that's opportunistic. So point being, as much as we're fond of Las Vegas and it's close to our hearts, the ability to redeploy capital at a higher return -- much higher returns is hard to turn down. It gives us a ridiculous balance sheet and far beyond what we got pre-pandemic and the ability to now look also perhaps in New York, perhaps in Texas, Asia. And of course, we mentioned -- Patrick mentioned in his comments on the sale price that the digital market continues to interest us. How we enter that depends on what the circumstances are. We're not going to do something foolish, but we're certainly paying attention, looking very closely at how we get that market. So what Las Vegas did, I thought the transaction was spectacular for us. It's a market that when you have a 20 million strip of building that necessitates extreme CapEx to keep it current and fresh, it alleviates that concern. It opens the door to all kinds of growth opportunities. I believe Macau will come roaring back and Singapore as well. And so I believe our business will be in excess of $5 billion again, maybe $6 billion. I believe we can invest in Macau happily. We can invest more in Singapore. We're open to now any market in the U.S., any digital opportunity. It makes us -- let's be honest, puts us in a position with -- no one else has this opportunity we have. And the world is going to change. The pandemic is going to start to move to the side, and our world is going to return. And so while it's bittersweet, it was a huge opportunity for us to put ourselves in a position. It's hard to believe, with our business returning in Asia, where we'll be probably 6 to 8 months from now. Patrick, do you want to add to that?

I agree with Rob's comments. I think we're very excited about the future. I will tell you that we're very proud to have entered into this transaction with both Apollo and VICI, who are great companies, have strong track records and we know will be great stewards for this very important asset. So we're very pleased to be working with them on it. Overall, this is a -- we view this as a generational asset. So we felt very strongly that it would price through the pandemic, and we were right. And I think that was what our motivation was. It was really thinking long term about our capital allocation strategy. If you look at our Chairman's track record, if you look at Rob's track record and our company's history, we've always done well when we've recycled capital, when we've -- when we look to monetize assets and redeploy those assets in higher growth opportunities that maybe other companies just don't have access to because of their track record or experience. We feel very good about our development capabilities, as Rob mentioned. We feel very strongly about potential opportunities in a very diverse set of markets. So we think having additional capital to expand our business over time is just a very good move for us. And to Rob's point, it strengthens our balance sheet coming out of pandemic. So we're very positive about the sale. We think it opens up a lot of opportunities for our business to grow. And we'll look forward to deploy that capital in the right opportunity. But we've said it before, Joe. You heard it on the earnings call plenty of times. We're very focused on returns, right? We're a returns-driven business. And we're going to make sure that if we do choose to deploy capital, it will be something that meets our requirements with the appropriate factor of safety.

So besides deploying the $6 billion plus of capital into something that generates attractive return, do you think there's any credence to this idea that another benefit is the fact that you're not a U.S. or non-Asia company and that maybe gives you a leg up versus those that might have a U.S. presence when Macau looks at renewing the licenses? I know that the theory is coming out of one of the consultants in Asia. I would just love to get your view on that.

I got to say this, Joe. I read that and I had a chuckle. Some of these ideas, I love reading these comments. I think we're all moving to Singapore. I think we're going to boat to China. We're going to be -- I don't know. These people -- we didn't sell with that intent. It was not our goal. We don't worry about Macau licensure. To be honest with you, I don't even -- I think people who worry about it shouldn't. I know it's front and center. I'm not trying to be cavalier or prove things that may be problematic. But we have spent a lot of time in Macau, as you know, and we've done it very thoughtfully. I think Sheldon's investment in Macau, the $15 billion, the latest thing we did with The Londoner, I mean, the Macau government and the China government, I think, must be very pleased. We redeployed capital within a short span of years before the license. We have full confidence in our Macau licenses. And I think we will continue to be in Macau for many decades to come. This idea that we did it to free up the U.S. or some of the rope we're going to now have to be able to run our business without regulatory scrutiny, we are a U.S. company. We pay taxes here. We reside here. We're going to be the same, highly regulated, very, very careful company we've always been. And it wasn't done to make the Chinese government say, gee, whiz, now they're -- what we did do though is say to the people in Macau and to China and our friends in Singapore that we're eager to deploy capital and eager to grow in those markets because a dollar spent in Macau is more valuable to us on a return basis than a dollar spent in Las Vegas. So we got great feedback from the governments over there about the sale, positive. But it wasn't meant to be, oh, gee, it's going to free us up from regulatory concerns or from -- the China governments will be more positive. That was not the intent and it won't be the intent. We are highly confident without having sold Las Vegas that we will be just fine in Macau. And again, I referred to our huge investment there, our track record for nongaming. We have done everything and then some, and we have a very good relationship in Macau. We're comfortable with those relationships with or without Las Vegas, too. It's a nominal event, [ normally ].

Okay. Thanks for answering that and humoring me in asking that question.

No. I love answering -- I just -- I chuckle. I read these diverse comments about, oh, now they can run junkets with [ The Bay ]. That's not our business. We're going to run our company intelligently, thoughtfully and give money back to shareholders. And that's our intent, not to evade government scrutiny or to please any one government. We are who we are, and we're very proud of it.

And Patrick, do you think that -- well, I'll ask it this way. Do you have more of an effort in trying to maybe monetize things like the retail mall at Marina Bay Sands given where institutional buyer interest would be in unique real estate?

I think that's something that we've always talked about. I think from our standpoint, we would have to have a use of capital to pursue that. And I think given the Las Vegas transaction, we're looking to invest more in Singapore at this point. I think we're very privileged to have reached an agreement for a new development there for expanding in what we call IR2, expanding our footprint there meaningfully. And we're very excited about it. We think the Singapore government is a great partner. And we're looking forward to that expansion because we think it will enhance the tourism offerings that Singapore has today, be a differentiator for us and allow us to grow with Singapore. So we're very excited about that. So I think we're looking to invest more capital in Singapore over time just given the return profile. And I think we're very excited about it. But with the Vegas sale and with some of the new development opportunities that we have on the horizon, there's -- it doesn't look like there's a need for it in the near term.

Got it. And when you, I don't know, internally, maybe rank order the potential use of proceeds and rank order different opportunities based on its return on investment profile, where does mobile fit relative to existing Asia markets? And maybe it's even too early to kind of include in that New York or Texas or some other new market.

Rob, I don't know if you want to take a shot at it first.

Go for it, please.

It's funny. I think the nature of our company is very entrepreneurial. Sheldon's -- as you know, Sheldon's vein was to talk about anything and everything as much as possible, to try to figure out the best path forward. I think we'll continue that, and we do continue that. And I think we're really looking at everything. And I think we're very interested. We're being cautious. We're learning as much as we can. Digital is an exciting new opportunity. The market opportunity there looks very broad and very deep, and we're excited about understanding it and thinking about how we might participate. But I don't think we prioritize it in any other way. I think we have ample capital, particularly after the conclusion of the Las Vegas transaction, to pursue a lot of different things. If you look at the timing, Rob mentioned earlier potential opportunities in New York, potential opportunities in Texas, the timing of that and the timing of digital don't necessarily coincide precisely. So given our balance sheet strength, our liquidity, our capital and our patience, in theory, we have the opportunity to pursue anything that we think produces the returns that make us find that they're attractive. So I think it's not really an order of priority so much as it is what's our entry point, how do we enter and how do we create the right returns.

Yes. Also, Joe, I want to piggyback Patrick's comments. I had a meeting here in New York today with someone about digital. He made a comment. He said, "Do you think digital is in the first inning, the second?" I said they're still playing the National Anthem. Digital is just starting out of the box. It's early yet. The returns look fascinating. But -- it's a very interesting space, but it's also a very difficult space to understand the valuations vis-à-vis the profit and what's happening there. I think we're going to spend a lot of time looking at it, figuring it out. Whatever comes along first, Macau, Singapore, digital, Texas, whoever pays a great return, makes us a lot of money will become our priority. We're not going to sit there and rank it. If the right digital opportunity came along tonight, we'd buy into it. If the right deal in Texas -- or if Macau would come along and say, "Let's go do more things together," we'd rank it based on how -- what makes the most money for our shareholders.

Great. Okay. You kind of both talked about new markets, New York and Texas or potentially new opportunities for you in those markets. Can you talk about -- I guess Texas and New York have both different circumstances. New York might be changing by the day, depending on what's going on with Governor Cuomo. But where do you think the states are in terms of embracing some form of gaming expansion? And New York maybe is a little bit more promising near term than Texas, but I'd love to get your views.

I think -- I'd be honest with you. I'm not sure we know. I mean I know it sounds like New York has been certainly -- it feels like it's imminent. I'm here in New York today, looking at some things we're working on. I think it's -- it could happen. But as you and I both know, after years of watching these processes, political processes are always confusing and they always -- they zig and zag. And now, of course, with the issues that -- in New York -- the political issues in New York, it's even more confusing. So I wouldn't pretend and say it's definitely going to happen. But I think we're in the hunt. I think it does happen. We're a serious candidate. We sure put a lot of time and after into it. And we think it's hugely opportunistic if we do it the way we do it, which is deep investments, a big commitment of something will be a category to our product and I think something that will surprise people, some other approaches we're taking. Same in Texas. We've had -- Texas is something that really caught me by surprise. Patrick has spent more time with it than I did, and I felt like it was just a long way off. But having been there a lot recently, I think there's a chance that Texas might happen. And again, the twists and turns in these processes have always been -- I've learned after 4 decades of chasing deals, you just never know what's going to happen, and you shouldn't believe you know because you just do your best and hope it does. I do think Texas is hugely opportunistic, and I think we have real value. Again, it will be a significant capital commitment and a category killer approach, the only way we're going to go there. And I think if anything, that's gotten some attention down there from people who didn't understand what we're thinking about. So I think just stay tuned and don't try to predict because you can't predict. You can't -- I think the issues with Governor Cuomo complicate New York, and I think the issues in Texas remain unclear. But we are hopeful in both places.

Great. Maybe then we can switch over to your core markets, Macau, and then later touch on Singapore. Macau feels like we're starting to see some legitimate green shoots after having some optimism for a while. You've had the removal of COVID testing requirements. We have -- I think every province in Mainland China is below medium risk, allowing for some travel. There seems to be maybe some easing or thawing of IVS issuance. Can you talk about what you guys have broadly seen more recently, I guess, from some of these -- we would characterize some of these travel impediments that have been sort of putting some guardrails on Macau's recovery?

I'll let Patrick take that with one caveat on your comment. What most impressed me about Macau every day -- I wake up every day with 2 thoughts, and the thought one is I hope there's not a case of COVID in Macau or from Macau, right? Come in and left. And what's shocking to me is all these people, they come -- it's not like the old days. Obviously, it's not pre-COVID. But the numbers are still growing consistently and exciting. And people are coming in. As you know, as you alluded to, there are some real green shoots along the way. I keep thinking and the second thought is one day, I wake up and the government will get that door open to let -- come back to high visitation levels and release some of the pressures on the visitation. And I got to believe at some point, with the Chinese economy doing much better than we are doing, in the rest of the world, that day is coming. And what day that is, I don't know. But you got to feel enthused about the levels of economic activity inside China and also enthused about the fact that Macau has not experienced any cases nor has visitors leaving Macau. So to me is this question when the Chinese open that door, and I believe that day is coming. I just don't know what day that is. But we are very enthused about our prospects. And we're even more than most because we're so damn excited about our 2 new products to get them -- I'm dying to see The Londoner and the Four Seasons because I don't think people realize what they are. When these products -- when people see them, they're kind of taken aback at how far we've come. So I'm dying to see the outcome of our work there. Patrick?

I think just to follow on to some of the comments Rob just made, I think the pandemic definitely hid the fact that we were in process to complete $2.2 billion worth of capital spending, transforming what was Sands Cotai Central into arguably what is the best product that's new in Macau. So now we have sort of 3 very powerful different offerings that are interconnected and work together that are all to a very high standard of theming, very high standard of patron interaction that address premium mass and sort of higher mass business and are designed really to create this category killer for Macau tourism. And I think that was hidden by the pandemic. And I think as we start to see some recovery in the market, the feedback has been extraordinary. I think also what's been lost is the fact that we've opened up a large volume of percentage of new premium mass-directed new rooms. And what I would say, and I don't know if Rob agrees with this, but it's actually the nicest product we've ever created in the Four Seasons.

Yes. Yes, of course.

Of course, with Four Seasons Tower Suites. So we feel very strongly about the trajectory of cash flow recovery coming out of the pandemic for Macau for Sands China. The team there has done an exemplary job in managing resources in and around the pandemic, working with the local community and creating opportunities for our construction teams to work safely and in a controlled manner, and they've been productive. And so while the pandemic has been going on, unfortunately, in the surrounding environment, through the proper public health applications, we've been able to continue. And so we've deployed the capital that we said we wanted to deploy early on, several quarters ago. And so the result has been just tremendous. And so we're very happy with the recovery in Macau, the cautious stance that has been taken in and around access. I think to Rob's point, there's been no cases, and I think it sets the stage for incremental recovery over time. I think Chinese New Year, it has been something that we'll look at very closely. I think over the next couple of weeks and months, as you see vaccine rollout in the surrounding region and you look at sort of the changing posture around public health controls, the -- you mentioned the fact that there's been a relaxation around some of the requirements for testing to access certain sites. All of those things are incrementally indicators that we're heading back more towards a normal operating environment. So we're very enthusiastic about these green shoots. We think in combination with our high-quality investments and the results of those investments and the customer feedback we've been getting when customers do make it to our properties and the fact that we're starting to see some recovery indications are very positive for us. So we're happy about it, and we're looking forward to more. But I think what will surprise people is just what's there now. Joe, I'd love to see you in Macau soon. I think you'd enjoy the trip. I think we'd all enjoy seeing The Londoner and seeing the results of these tremendous efforts. So we're very happy about Macau, and hopefully, the trajectory will accelerate towards more recovery.

So when you think about The Londoner's positioning for premium mass, say, relative to the premium mass focus at The Venetian and at The Parisian, how would you sort of differentiate the premium mass focus there?

Rob, I don't know if you want to take a shot at that question first.

Yes. I think there -- I look at this Londoner project as more than premium mass. I look at it as base mass, premium mass and retail. I think what makes it so exciting for us -- I was kidding Grant and Wilfred about this and said, "Can it catch The Venetian?" It's at the epicenter of locationally advantaged properties right there. That wouldn't feed into it. It's on the main drag of Cotai. It's got twice as many keys as the nation. So by definition, it's a huge mass product, which is what's been missing in Macau, obviously, recently. It also has the premium mass ability with the new stuff we've built, new hotel towers and some of the things we built are so damn good. I think it will be a player in premium mass. But I think between the retail base, it's going to grow. It's going to grow base mass. It's a must see. You're going to have to see it in Macau. You may go to Melco or someplace else, but you're going to want to go see Londoner. It's already getting -- it's got terrific things inside that's both whimsical but upscale and fun. It's going to have a great retail product redesign. It's got, of course, the Apple store front and center. And it's got a much more exciting product that we've ever built to that scale. So I think, yes, it's premium mass, but I also think it's going to attract huge base mass, which what makes The Venetian so damn powerful, is it has it all. It's got the retail, the base mass, the premium mass. It has it all. This property has it all, too. And I do wonder if, down the road, it doesn't compete with The Venetian. These 2 massive buildings, in my fantasy, the 2 of them are going to make $1.5 billion plus a year. And all of a sudden, we got a $3 billion thing right at the middle of the Cotai Strip before the Four Seasons. Now you don't have Four Seasons. When you see it, you see the size of these 290 rooms and the quality of product, you realize that is the premium mass machine that we've never had that will be front and center. I think people understand we've built there, see the gaming floor, we see the relationship in gaming space and living space, the hotel room space, the quality and the size of these suites, there's nothing like it in Macau. It's a very unique building. So that's a premium mass sole-purpose building, no question. So you add that to The Venetian, to The Londoner, of course, The Parisian, and all of a sudden, we've got something. I think it's going to be extremely hard to compete with us and not kind of shake your head and say this is a lot of product in a concentrated area in the best market in the world. I think we'll...

Joe, I just want to add one thing. The great thing about both The Londoner and The Venetian is it allows us to have great products for every segment. And the team there has done an absolutely tremendous job. We're very proud of the team, how hard they've worked through the pandemic, the work that they've done around The Londoner, the social media activities around it. It's really been extraordinary. And unfortunately, we haven't seen a lot of it because of the pandemic. But the team there has been working together for a long time. They launched The Parisian. And now they've used that knowledge to launch The Londoner in a very strong way. So we have great products for every segment. We think it will be a category killer, and we're very excited about it. And hopefully, we'll all get a chance to see it in person soon.

I look forward to seeing it in person soon. It'd be great to get out of the house, but I also look forward to go to The Londoner and -- so you guys are at the tail end of this $2.2 billion investment at The Londoner and Four Season suites. Rob and I think Patrick, you also mentioned that there might be additional investment opportunities we would get a good return in Macau. Where could you develop? Would it be more redeveloping Sands Macao and the peninsula? Or would it be something outside of that?

Joe, I would tell you -- let's be clear, the government will have to approve any and all of these. What we're hoping the government do is allow us to either -- to your point, it could be an existing property we own and develop it further. That's an option. Or it can be new property designated as developable -- we could then go somewhere else. It really depends on how the government views it. We're hoping -- I'm not sure you'll see a lot more casino development there, but I think you'll see nongaming, which will enhance the activity of the gaming. It could be on our existing land or could be new land they designate. That's up to the government, and we'll wait for their advice on that. But we think that's a real potential.

Okay. Great. Since we're kind of closing on some time here, maybe we could just pivot and talk about Marina Bay Sands Singapore. Obviously, the property has had a pretty good go at it with locals business. It's been sort of the international, foreign business that you're still waiting for that to experience some sort of recovery. When you think about Singapore's history, how much of their -- of that business is directly exposed or tied to China travel, where if China travel, for whatever reason, is curtailed, how much of an impact there? I know there is a -- and you can -- please, if you could talk about the exposure to the Asian markets as well, I know that's been sort of an opportunity. So let's get your views on that as well.

Patrick, go ahead.

Joe, I think -- yes, Joe -- thank you, Rob. Joe, I think one thing to note that I always found interesting is that Marina Bay Sands really is a Southeast Asian tourism asset. And it drives a lot of tourism to Singapore from the surrounding countries, not necessarily only China. And one way to sort of evidence that is -- evidence of that is if you looked at sort of the change in the dynamic around Macau in 2014, there was obviously some cyclicality in the business during that time, Marina Bay Sands never missed a beat. And I think what that's really indicative of is the strength of the tourism appeal to the surrounding region. So we're really -- our feeder markets are really Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, Cambodia, Vietnam and, to be fair, a lot of Japan. And so it's really a fair mix all around the Southeast Asia and actually Asian region that goes to Marina Bay Sands. It's been there more than a decade, and it's now on everyone's list. We talk to people in many different countries for a variety of different things, and all of them have been to MBS at least once at this point. And so it really is a pan-Asian asset as opposed to maybe Macau, which is more concentrated to just specifically China. One thing I do want to add is that we're very focused on Marina Bay Sands in general. And so we're also intending to invest significantly in the existing tower -- existing towers to ensure that it remains competitive in the future. Listen, of course, China is important, but it really is a pan-Asian asset.

Got it. How do you think about the return on the $3.3 billion of investment in -- what did you call it before?

IR2.

IR2. It's a working title. We'll obviously call it with a better one over time.

No, no. We're going to call it...

It just rolled off the tongue.

I got to tell you, I have every confidence that as well as we've done in Singapore -- and Patrick alluded to our reinvestment in our current tower. We're going to spend a lot of money making it great. I think this market has a lot more room to grow. I'm also encouraged by -- right now, we're a locals-only business with foreigners living in Singapore, and business still isn't too bad. We're still making a decent return over there. But I'd love to invest a lot more money in Singapore. It's a great market. It's a market that depends on many countries in that region. Yes, it's China dependent, but it's not nearly as big as people realized. I think Singapore is -- what they've done with the airport there and that government, which is great to work with, I'd be happy to invest a lot of money. The returns over time will look very fat. We've always told you 20%. We'll get there and then some because that market just needs more product. We need more slots. We need more great rooms in that building. We have a mall that does crazy numbers and growing. The Apple Store is now open. I'm very comfortable investing 3 plus, 4 plus, whatever it takes. We think Singapore is going to pay very, very handsome returns to us for many years to come. It's a privileged license, and we have a voracious appetite to keep investing in it.

So going into the pandemic, you had extremely low balance sheet leverage. Coming out of this pandemic, you're in a position to reap off -- reap some returns off the investments in Macau. You have recovery growth in Singapore and then obviously some incremental return from the sizable needle-moving investment. Maybe New York happens. Maybe Texas happens. Maybe it doesn't. If it does, it's probably not CapEx for a while. Where does resumption of a dividend fit into this, particularly after collecting $6 billion plus of proceeds from the Vegas asset sale?

Forgive me for one second, but yay, dividends.

Yay, dividends.

For old times' sake.

For old times' sake.

For old times' sake. Hopefully soon. Hopefully soon. Yes. So I think we've said this on some of our earnings calls. The way we think about the dividend is it's really the cornerstone of our return of capital program. We're looking forward to getting it started again once our operations normalize. So once we have clear visibility into the trajectory of cash flows of the business and our operational levels, we'll then look to reset the dividend and understand exactly what the growth of those cash flows may look like and what the dividend needs to look like. And so in our mind, we intend to be dividend payers again. The pandemic was obviously very difficult for our company, and we quickly looked to conserve liquidity and think about the long term. We are very long-term shareholder returns focused, so we intend to restart the dividend when operations return. And so I think we'll look very carefully at what those levels are and go from there. I think in our mind, given the cash flow trajectory that we thought about prior to the pandemic, we'd like to believe that given our investments, we'll be able to exceed those levels over time and be able to basically go back to being a return of capital company with the ability to invest in growth and also experience growth in our existing markets through these investments. So we think the future is bright. We're very excited about it. We have a very disciplined long-term management team. We think about things in the long term. We're focused on return on invested capital, and we're patient. So I think the dividend will come back in time. I think -- I'd like to believe share repurchases will come back in time. I'd like to believe that expansion of our existing markets, which we've already been structured to do, to your point, with the leverage that we're running, is possible. And we'll head in that direction. I also believe that there's new developments available for us. So I believe that the future of the company that Sheldon set up is bright. And we've been together for a long time, and we've got the focus, and I think we know what the plan is. So we're looking forward to the opportunity to execute. But around the office, there's a very positive feeling. And we're excited about our opportunities, and we're just looking forward to the time we can execute against them.

Great. Maybe on that positive note, since we're knocking a little more -- a little bit over our time allotment, we'll end on that. And great to see you guys soon enough in person, but appreciate your participation today. Thank you so much.

Thank you for the time.

Thanks so much, Joe. Great to see you. Thank you.