LENZ Therapeutics, Inc. (LENZ) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Okay. Welcome, everyone to the third day of Citi's Global Healthcare Conference. I'm Yigal Nochomovitz, biotech analyst here at Citi. So we have a really, really super interesting company next, its LENZ Therapeutics. I have with me the CEO, Evert Schimmelpennink. Thank you, so much for joining.

Obviously, a tremendous amount of progress since you did the reverse merge, did the Phase III data successfully built the commercial infrastructure, got the approval and now, of course, have launched the product biz. So tell us where you are? Tell us a little bit about the early launch? How it's going? What you're preparing for 1Q just -- set the stage?

Absolutely. Thanks, Yigal. Obviously, thanks for the invite. Great to be here at the Citi Conference. Yes, we're very excited about everything that we're seeing. And to your point, and just facing our focusing on the last couple of months from the approval that we got the early -- late July, to the launch, which we executed early October and then now 8 or 9 weeks into the launch. It's been an extremely exciting time for the company. Everything that we're seeing either from the numbers side and we're obviously seeing a lot more than what's in the public domain to the feedback that we're getting from doctors on how to product works in real life, to, frankly, what we're hearing from investors at all these conferences that are all doing their own doctor checks as they shoot. The feedback is very, very aligned on how the products works in the real world. It works really well for pretty much every patient, which is very aligned with our clinical trial. It works very rapidly. People notice a near vision, improve and get back to real good near vision in 10, 15 minutes. It's got a very long duration. So it absolutely works for the full workday just as we saw in the clinical trial. Anecdotally, we're hearing 11, 12 hours. The distance vision impact that we noticed in our clinical trial as well is real. People talk about that, "Hey, my distance vision is getting crisper, clearer, more vivid. So that's great to hear. That's not a label claim, but it's a very nice obviously added benefit that patients or consumers experience. And it's a very comfortable product in its use. In the clinical trials, we were very much focused on the headache rate. Miotic have a tendency to create mild headaches. We saw very little of it in the clinical trial to begin with. And hardly anything we're hearing about it in the real world. So that's great. The two things that come up is the product might give a little bit of a sting on first installation, a 10, 15 second, thing if it happens, doesn't happen anymore on day 2, day 3. Similarly, people may notice a little bit of hyperemia, also that's very transient. If it happens, it lasts maybe up to 30 minutes on day 1, maybe half of that in duration day 2 and then day 3, 4, 5, no longer really happens. So highly tachyphylactic and something that doctors feel it's very easy to manage for patients. And we're seeing that again in our numbers. The numbers continue to give us a lot of confidence in the launch. if I see in this stage where it's really around getting docs to recommenders, and I'm sure we're going to talk about that and not yet have we turned on the DTC, which we'll do in the Q1.

So you started with e-pharmacy at the very beginning. Before that, I guess you just started with the samples and then you sort of dialed in the e-pharmacy. Now you're starting to dial in the retail component -- the retail pharmacy component. Can you speak to that as far as how it's going to start to boost the trajectory? That's before, of course, turn on the direct to consumer.

Absolutely. So both channels are now fully available. So if you think about how we launched the product, so early October, October 4 is when we first had samples in the market. And at that moment, we also have product available at the e-pharmacy. So e-pharmacy, in our case, is more of a fulfillment station where we have products sitting there as orders come in, they get fulfilled and that ship to the consumers. Pretty much at that moment, we also had product at the wholesalers, but that just takes a little bit of time to propagate it into the channel. So we've always been very clear around the fact that we expected that by mid-November, both channels would be fully up and running, and that's exactly the case. So you can order your product through e-pharmacy and get a deliver to you home, guaranteed fixed price, or you can just get it sent it to your local CVS, Walgreens and pick it up there. And again, both are fully available now.

Is it a bit too early to tell as far as utilization for patients that have gotten scripts, they're probably still in their first 25 days, right? So it's maybe a little early to know about the refill rate. That's more something to learn later next year.

Absolutely. No. So it's good to see that without going into numbers, but we are seeing people refilling. We are seeing people ordering 3 packs. But indeed, it's much too early to go into, and it's not really telling a whole lot at this moment. So -- as I think about what we'll start to share with the Street going forward is we'll continue to focus initially on the numbers or the stats that we gave at our November earnings call, which were all around what's our awareness. It was already up over 90%, which is phenomenal for a new product to have a 90-plus percent awareness, but talking about how many practices, how many doctors have access to samples. And just to double click on that a little bit. For us, it's really important that ultimately we get to a stage where most, if not all of our target factors have samples available. So we want to make sure that as a consumer, actually once we turn on DTC, if you think, hey, this is something I want to try that you don't have to go and look for which practice has samples. You can go into your local Main Street and the 3 optometrists there, should all have samples available. So that's one thing that we continue to strive for. So we'll give an update around where we are there. And then we'll give updates around what are the unique amount -- what are the unique doctors that have prescribed. So 4 weeks in. We had 2,500 doctors that already wrote, which I believe is a phenomenal number. But we extend 40% had already written more than once. So we'll update that number for the end of the quarter. And similarly, we'll update the amount of scripts that have been filled. So that was 5,000 in the first 4 weeks in. And again, we'll give an update on that number. We'll then turn DTC on, and I think what we're focused on in, let's call it, the first half of the year is how that driving new patient starts. So that's the main metric for the first half of the year. Turning DTC on usually takes a couple of months to see that effect. Again, that's not unlogical. Somebody sees the ad, they usually need to see it a couple of times, that make an appointment, get the eyes checked, get their sample, turn in or turn towards buying a script. And then if there's a 1 month, which is the minimum, it obviously takes at least a month before they refill. If they buy a 3 pack, it's going to take at least 3 months. So first half of the year, I think of it really as you want to see that nice steady growth in new patient stats and more towards the first -- in the middle of the year, we'll start talking about, okay, what is the refill rate that we're seeing that because that's the key second metric for this to all work. So long-winded to your answer on when is it that we'll start to get insight in the refill rate and think of it more as a Q2, Q3 type metric.

Tell us more. There's a lot of components to DTC. It sounds simple, but it's not simple. It's a lot of strategy. You've hired really, really strong head of marketing. We'd love to hear more about the choice of the celebrities, folks person. What are the facets of the DTC campaign? How do you target? The technology is obviously really good where if you're near a place where you potentially are a customer, you could be tagged on your phone. Just kind of go through all that and where the ads are going to appear? Who are you going to target? What that's going to look like?

Yes. Indeed, there's a lot of different aspects in it. So let's maybe start with spokesperson, Sarah Jessica Parker, who we've had her as a topic from day 1. But it's great that -- I thought it was great, and Sean thought she was great. Obviously, while we're decision makers, we're not the experts in this. So how that works as you think about who's your target customer. We know that a product like this skews slightly female. And we're seeing that even in our current script data coming in. It's like 60-40 female, male. Its slight -- it skews a little bit more to the 45 to 55 year olds. We're seeing orders all over the age spectrum up to 75-year-old, but a little more in that age group. And then it's a little bit more city center urban buying there. So if you think about how do you get that group activated, you look for somebody that really speaks to that group. We also look at our product, which we really look at as a category of 1. So this is the only product that gets below 2 millimeters. This is the only product that really improves your near vision. So we also want a category of 1 spokesperson. So this needs to be somebody that's an A list, the lead character in her movies needs to be a female. So that's how you build that list. We ultimately will win it down to about 5 with Sarah on the top. And then you start to do what's called scores. So here's where companies do a lot of surveying where they show somebody the name or show somebody a photo and go across all age groups and dynamics to see is this somebody that really resonates. And she does like she's the ideal person for this. So her role in the DTC to get to your question is she needs to stop people when that's calling on their Instagram or their TikTok or their Facebooks where they go, oh, what she's talking about. So you click on, you look at the ad and then she brings you into our campaign into our website, gets the brand awareness. So that's really her role. So you'll see her show up in all our commercials, and those commercials are showing up mostly digitally. So on the same platforms that I was just talking about on the Hulu's, the Disney's, all the nonlinear TV because that's where we can really target people. Like we don't need to target 128 million people or 300 million people and find the ones that have presbyopia because we know if you're over 45, you have it. We know if you're over 45 in contact lenses, you even over index in interest, LASIK, if you're active aging, you use BOTOX. So those groups, we can target very easily digitally. So that's what we'll do. Now underneath that brand figure, there's a lot of influencers that you'll start to see coming up. Those are the people that you actually follow. So you have more confidence and interest in what they're saying. So that is how that all wraps together. And the nice thing is that you can fine-tune that like almost minute by you can run something different in Houston versus Phoenix and see how that difference works and what plays better. And think of it as a huge dashboard that have a lot of dials that you continue to fine-tune.

You've hired the right people in the advertising world to measure the effectiveness of these digital ad campaigns. And as you say, they can be rapidly fine-tuned shift if necessary as you collect more data on the uptake.

Absolutely. So frankly, from the beginning, let's call it, 5 years ago, when we started into what's now LENZ. Our approach has always been to work with the best. That means we work with the best team. We bring the best people in-house, but we also work with the best companies to support us. And we've done that with manufacturing. We've done that for development. We've now done it logically also with everybody, everything commercially. So the companies that are and the firms are supporting us aren't the number one firms in that field, whether it's on commercial side, on the marketing side, whether it's on the ad buys, which is what this is all about, whether it's how do you find your talent, how do you do the commercials. These are all the tough for us.

I mean I know you can't speak to specific numbers post the earnings call, but just sort of generally speaking, you see the data. How are you feeling about the trends post the earnings call and as you move. And the update, just to that question, you mentioned the update. So is that going to be like an early January update where you're going to give a snapshot of what 4Q looks like? Are you going to get that one on the 4Q call in like late Feb. Can you tell us about that?

Yes, let me answer both. So first off, like, again, we strongly believe that we had great data and great stats coming out of the first 4 weeks. I don't think there's a lot of products that in the first 4 weeks, drive 500 scripts, 2,500 doctors that have written a script right off the bat. So that shows that there is a lot of interest in the products and a lot of confidence in the product, and that's what this faces all around. I mentioned before, creating awareness in the doctor community, giving them confident, giving them samples, the first thing they do is they open up a pack and use it in their own eyes, give it to couple of staff members. Maybe 1 or 2 patients in that early phase already get to that amount of scripts.

5,000. Just to clarify, 5,000.

5,000 scripts, 2,500 doctors that have written. So that's great data right there, and we're seeing that trend continue. And again, this is all before we turn on DTC. So all these patients are patients that are getting it because the doctor talks to them about it. That's going to change once we turn on DTC like we just talked and spoke about. We know how focused everyone is rightfully so script data and all the other stats, we also know that neither Symphony, nor IQVIA is accurate at all and give you insight and how the launch is going. So you can imagine that early January will give an update around those steps that I just said, doctors that are prescribing, how often and how many scripts in first 4 weeks. Then there'll be another update around our earnings call in March. And the next update is like going to be in May around Q1 update. So you'll see that there's like roughly a 2-month cadence that will give inside in how the launch is going. Just to make sure that everyone has to keep on guessing.

Right. So it's an important point you made that IQVIA and Symphony are not doing a good job of tracking or people attempt to use those channels to project or model that -- there was a point where you were saying it was good, but that was like in the first week or something.

Correct.

Now it's not, it's diverged.

So we'd always said that don't look at IQVIA or Symphony because it's not be accurate and the reason that it's not accurate as we use both e-pharmacy channel like we just said, and then the retail channel, both those firms buy retail data and then extrapolate it into what ultimately will be call a pretty accurate number. Nobody on the e-pharmacy side sells that there. So we were always saying that they're not going to catch anything on the e-pharmacy, you'll need to rely on us. We were a little bit surprised in the first 4 weeks to see that Symphony, not IQVIA, but Symphony somehow had piped into some data, which was directionally correct. Like it wasn't perfect, but it was correct enough for us to wanted to explain or at least highlight that to the Street that in the first 4 weeks, they were picking up scripts and directionally it was correct. Now that accuracy has gone down. And it's not like it's up week by week. So the percentages is different week by week that they catch, but it's definitely wrong. And the same is on the retail side. So as much as I'm going to continue to say, don't look at it, I know everybody will, but it's not correct.

Okay. So then tell us a little bit more about plans. Of course, you're launching in the United States, but you do have some agreements and partnerships in place ex U.S. Let's hear a little bit about that.

Yes. So you all may have seen that on Monday, we announced that the submission of the NDA went in, in South Korea. That's through our partnership with Lotus. That's something that we signed earlier in the year for Southeast Asia. So obviously South Korea, used market and very interesting markets around that. So that's with Lotus Pharmaceuticals. Then we have a partnership in place for Greater China, actually signed that a couple of years ago, like 3 years ago, because they had to do our own clinical trial. That clinical trial read out identical to our trial, which itself was great validation that in different company, different cohorts of patients, different PIs, obviously, exactly the same data, highly validating for the product. And again, a great predictive of what we see in the market now. So they submitted their NDA in June, and then we signed an agreement with for Canada earlier this year as well. So these are partnerships that are in place. Other key markets, obviously, Europe is one. We're actually pushing our own registration there. We want to make sure that we get that market the time to realize what the value of the product is, there's a lot of interest already. But you can imagine that, the better we launch and the more value we show in the U.S., the more valuable that license become. And you'll continue to see us do deals in auto territories as well. So there's a huge market opportunity ex U.S. 1.8 billion presbyopes outside of -- globally, 128 million in the U.S., so a very large market that we'll start to tap into.

Speaking about globality and everything related to manufacturing and supply chain. I mean you had some important wins in terms of how the United States orders and customers rated or characterized your product. Can you talk about that?

Absolutely. Yes. And it was certainly a question that we got a lot about 6 months ago on how the tariffs are going to impact us. If I think about our supply chain, the API cycle in is made in the U.S. The IP around the products also sits with the company and there for in the U.S. So it's a completely wholly owns product for us. Those 2 make that this is a U.S.-based product is a U.S. manufactured product, even though we ship the API to Europe to have the fill/finish done. So that's where the actual little low field seals, little containers get made and then it comes back into the U.S., but it comes back into the U.S. duty-free, tariff-free. So it's a U.S.-based product for all those reasons. Excellent supply chain, like I said earlier, we wanted to work with only the best firms out there. The supplier of these b-field seals is actually the company that way back when, invented how to do that technology. Having said that, and even though the supply chain is fully capable of doing massive volumes, just for redundancy, we're making sure that we have second source API and second source fill/finish in place as well, and that's near to those missions.

So that's a very good summary. As far as other products, is that something that you would consider, are you fully focused on biz at the moment.

Yes. We're fully focused on this. I mean there's not that many, let's call it, $3 billion-plus opportunities out there. So it's in our interest and frankly, our shareholders' interest to make sure that we fully focus on getting this one, right? So the majority of all the brain cells, all the human power that we have is focused on that. Having said that, this can and will be a phenomenal cornerstone product, a much larger portfolio. That's all going to be BD and M&A driven. So a few of us keep our eyes out, no pun intended, on what's out there. I see that more as a post-2026 opportunity. So we'll definitely be active, but we want to make sure that in the next 12 months, we really show the opportunity and the success around this, and then we'll start to pivot into the broader company strategy.

And I think it's also important to spend a few minutes just talking about what's happened in the past in the presbyopia field and some of the products that have been successful that they not been so successful. So if you can just speak to that. And then are there other competitors that are noteworthy that you need to pay attention to currently?

Yes, great question. So there's 3 -- just to sketch it at a high level. So there's 3 miotics, so 3 active ingredients. You got pilocarpine, which is what VUITY launched with. VUITY was the AbbVie drug that launched 3 years ago, you have the aceclidine, which is obviously our active ingredient. We're the only ones with aceclidine and then you got [indiscernible] call carbachol. The aceclidine is the only pupil selective miotic. So there's 2 muscles in the eye that are important for presbyopia. There's the iris sphincter, that's the muscle that you want to stimulate that gives you that small penal pupil. And then the ciliary body that you want to avoid because that impacts your distance vision and can drive other side effects. That's also the reason why both VUITY, what you saw there was mostly focused in the study on ametropes and then carbachol, which is a 10-point product is 100% focused on ametropes because they impact that distance vision. So if you work with people that are amotropic, which have good distance vision, you hope to minimize the effect there. So VUITY had a good launch because they solve the promise of an eye drop that solves for presbyopia or clears up your blurring near vision. But in order to do that, you need -- your people needs to be below 2 millimeters. That's undisputed. All the data shows that. It's not only our data, it's actually AbbVie's data, the VUITY data that shows that all the academic data. If you're not below 2 millimeters, you're not going to see a good near vision impact. The smallest people size that VUITY got to was 2.3 millimeters, then they quickly bounce back up. Their statistical significance that lost that at hour 3. So in the market, once people use the product, they actually realize that, one, it doesn't work a whole lot of people, only works in 1 in 4 people. If it works, it works maybe for 2, 2.5 hours. That's why VUITY failed. So to solve the promise, a lot of people bought into the promise, bought 1 bottle and never refilled. We obviously have a completely different profile. If you compare our profile to VUITY, we're at least 3x more efficacious. So up to 75% of efficacy on clinical trials, 93% if you look at 2040. So this works for almost everyone. Our 10-hour data is better than VUITY's peak efficacy. So it works at least 2x longer for 6x larger population because we're effectively an all-comer study. So if you now compare some of the other profiles, and there's not that many left, either the other pilocarpine product or the carbachol product, it is like VUITY. So if you just overlay the couple size and efficacy, it's like VUITY. So we'll pay attention to any competitor, but we continue to really see this as a category of one, our market to frankly build because there's no market at the moment and our market to dominate.

The commercial strategy also is quite different than what VUITY did, right? Because VUITY was focused more on the ophthalmologist unless on the non-ophthalmologist, the optician market.

Yes. No, good point. So Vuity obviously was part of the back that Allergan AbbVie already carried, which was heavily focused on ophthalmology. So the call points were mostly ophthalmology. But you see that this product gets sold mostly or written, I should say, mostly through optometry. And we've always looked at it like an 80-20, 80% optometry, 20% ophthalmology. That's why our sales force is set up in that way. That's why our call points are like that. And we see that split exactly like that coming through in these first 8, 9 weeks of data. It is truly 80% optometry, 20% ophthalmology. So that's one difference. I think the other big difference is that -- and I touched on it earlier, but very heavily sample focused. VUITY did the opposite. They started with samples, but then realize if you give somebody a sample, VUITY, they're not going to buy it because the product doesn't work. So they actually pull the samples away from the doctors. Like I said a couple of times now, Q4 is focused on getting as many samples in doctors' hands, predominantly to make sure that they get that confidence that then patients can use it. So I would expect us to have the uptick that we're currently seeing a nice steady, good growth at a good clip, but then continued growth where VUITY tapered off real quickly because they obviously showed that they didn't work.

I mean that was an important point that I think some investors may have gotten confused by around the earnings call related to the samples and how to think about the samples relative to the paid scripts. And maybe you could just spend a minute or 2 just clarifying or helping people understand that you will continue with the samples as you continue to build the paid market.

Absolutely. No, thanks for bringing it up and giving me the opportunity to clarify that. So during our earnings call, we indicated or we shared that we had, at that point, distributed 70,000 samples into the market, which roughly equates to about 7,000 offices or doctors. That didn't mean that there's 70,000 consumers that have tried a sample, obviously. And in our mind, that was not something that we have to clarify because we're continuously putting samples out there as we are still doing today. I think some investors willingly or not move to -- well, if you have 70,000 samples in the market, there's 70,000 consumers that use the product and you get 5,000 scripts, what's that conversion rate? That's obviously not how it works. So we have those samples in doctors' offices, like I said earlier, the first pack, the second pack, the third pack is used by the doctor themselves, then some go to the office staff. By the time that a patient gets a pack, that's maybe pack 9 or 10. And then a lot of offices just have those samples. So we're going to move to describing the amount of offices that have samples because that's the more important thing like I referred to earlier. We want to make sure that all those offices have samples. So what we're currently seeing is that our reps are going back in. So we have a 3- to 4-week call cycle. First thing they do is check how many samples are left. If there's 0 samples and the doctor has written 20 scripts, great, they're going to get 20 samples the next time or maybe even 30. If there's 0 samples left, but no scripts, clearly, the samples are used in the wrong way. So that's the dynamic that's happening now. There's doctors' offices that are on there, the second that third refilled already. So we're going to focus on the next updates, like I said earlier, say these are the amount of doctors that have samples. That's a relevant metric. And then to your second point, yes, we'll continue to do this. Like there's 4 million new press release every year. There's 28 million out there. So the samples are a very cost-effective way for us to get people to try the product. It's not a huge line item in our P&L, so you can continue to see us sample lightly.

And then the other one, which would be good to clarify is you mentioned hyperemia earlier. Help people understand -- for those that haven't read my explanation, you've had the explanation, what happened there in terms of how in clinical trials, there was somewhat of a disconnect in how that was recorded or not reported versus what people are seeing in the market?

Yes. So if you think about hyperemia happening here, it's like I said, it's very short-lived. It's maybe a maximum of 30 minutes or so for most people, and it's very tachyphylactic. So after a couple of days, it doesn't even occur anymore. So how the clinical trial is set up, like in most instances, patient gets the drop in their eye, gets set into the waiting room. Hyperemia is not something that you notice as a person. Like you don't notice your eyes are, unless you look in a mirror like it doesn't itch, it doesn't burn, it doesn't hurt. So there's people sitting in the waiting room and actually being very excited because within 10, 15 minutes, they can see their phone again. So they're focused on that. They go, wow, this thing works. This is pretty amazing that an eye drop can do that. And 30 minutes later, they're actually called back in. That's the first time that the doctor sees them. And actually, they obviously do all the vision tests and they get their eyes looked at. 30 minutes in, like I said earlier, for most people, the hyperemia is dissolved. And for those that it's not, it's very mild. So that's how we, if you combine the 2, had about a 15% hyperemia rate in the clinical trial. That's why that was out there in real world, have all these doctors that are using it, using it on themselves, and they are looking in the mirror. So they are looking at other people's eyes, and they are realizing that maybe it happens a little bit more. For them, that's not really an issue. Like when we were talking to them, they're going like, well, why is this a big issue? If I fit somebody with contact lenses, they're going to get red eye for the first day or 2. If somebody if I give somebody a dry eye drop, it's way worse than what we're seeing here. It's so transient. If it's really an issue for somebody even dosing your first 2 days, then put a double [indiscernible], it clears up in 2 days. So I think that clarification, how we've changed the messaging around that has landed very well as we can see in all our data now.

And interestingly, it's the opposite with the headaches, you're seeing -- why are you seeing less headaches, which is good. You're seeing less headaches now versus in the studies. What's is there an explanation for that or...

No, we were -- like we saw it, frankly, like 11% in the study, which is, if you take out the normal rate, it's not that high to begin with. Think about this, people would come in 7, 8, 9 times over the course of the study. And every time they're asked, how you're doing, if you score a little bit of a headache once, then you score obviously is 100%. That's how it works. So I think it's something that if you focus on it enough, you'll see it. In the real world, it's something that doesn't really happen. But also there, and we saw it in a clinical trial, that's also highly tachyphylactic. What we saw in the trial is that if you want of the 11% that has a headache, chances that you have it on day 2 are only 44%, 7 days in, it's like 25% roughly. So it's tachyphylactic to begin with. It's great to see that we're not seeing it in the real world.

I think we talked earlier about refill rates. And since you have the 1 month and the 3 month, talk a little bit how are you going to talk about the refill rate? If I go and get a 3 months, it's as though I could have gotten 2 refills, right?

And that's how it comes.

So how are you going to just mathematically like talk about that to the market?

Yes. So a 3-pack gets registered as 1 NRx, so 1 new script and 2 refills. So that's how we'll report it. That's also IQVIA and Symphony will pick it up. So you'll see it there as, again, 2 refills on your first script. We're seeing people ordering 3 packs, which is encouraging. But frankly, we're not reading too much into it at the moment. Like at the moment, I don't even know if that person had a sample yes or no or whether they were just intrigued by the idea and want this. We won't know if they're reordering the 3-pack logically until at the earliest month 4. So again, it's great to see that people are ordering them, but this is something that we'll be much more focused on, let's call it, Q2, Q3. This period is really around how many patients are starting.

I know over the years since you've been talking about the launch, you identified certain market segments that you would expect to be have high uptake. Are there areas where you're seeing uptake? I know it's very early and you're still analyzing the data. But are there areas where you're seeing surprisingly higher uptake than you would have expected based on some other demographics and you said, oh, that's interesting? We wouldn't have expected to see that piece of the market demonstrate interest.

Yes. So what we're seeing at the moment from a data perspective or a segmentation perspective is relatively limited. So we have obviously up-to-date and daily information coming through the e-pharmacy. And that's why we see age of the patient group, male, female, and the location. That's the basic information that we're getting. But the good thing there is that it's playing out exactly like we predicted and how we planned and how we put a strategy around it. So like I said earlier, it's SKUs, slightly female, so 60% female, 40% female in the orders that we're currently seeing. 45- to 55-year-old, order more than the 55- to 65-year-olds, who order more than the 65 and over, but we see scripts in all categories. And we are seeing it more being ordered in those urban areas that I spoke about. So it's playing out exactly like we thought. Those other groups that we've spoken about before, the people that are in contact lenses, the people have had LASIK, people are active aging, that's info that we'll start to get once we turn the DTC because that's when you specifically start to target them and you can do metrics on that. So a little bit too early to see that. But given that everything that we're seeing now is spot on, we have confidence that we are right there as well.

And you picked up -- I mean you did a lot of work, as I understand, to pick the price. So just kind of walk us through how you did that? Why was that the right number?

Yes. So how you set pricing on a product is most of us will work with a company called Kantar, who are the, again, the best company to do this with. So you do large pricing studies where you have whole panels of consumers or future consumers that basically price point by price point, you ask, would you still buy this? So that's how you build your price elasticity curves, and we've done that multiple times over. It very clearly shows that the $79 that we sell at a monthly pack maximize price. Interestingly or maybe not so interestingly, that was exactly the price that we sold that as well if you use the same company. So $79, that's where you revenue optimize. Now you do see a smaller but still interesting other price point that people buy at, that's around $65, $66. So that's why we're having that 3 pack that at $198, which works out to be $66 a month. If you buy the 3 pack, that's what -- that's the price that you pay there. So that's how those 2 price points came to be. We're not hearing any pushback on price, like we're not hearing back from the market that I want to use this, but like $79 is too much for me.

Just to emphasize, it's cash pay, but you need a prescription. So -- and what else has to happen for the physician to give the prescription, what other tests or checks do they have to do for...

Yes. So nothing mandatory, but recommended and it's good practice to begin with, is an eye exam. So we encourage that, and we train our sales force and our physicians on it that the ideal patient comes in, either you tell them about this or they come asking about this once we've turned DTC on, you -- do your normal eye exam, then you do a retina exam. And then following the retina exam, you tell them about the product, how to use it, what to expect, glad to have them leave with a sample and a script. So that retina exam, again, it's good practice to begin with to do that annually is good practice for a product like this.

And last question. So Sarah Jessica Parker, obviously, a big name. Like is there a date or is there a reference point like when in 1Q, is this -- are we going to start to see her face on your side and on the phone. Can you characterize like when is it actually going to happen? Is there a launch date for her being the spokesperson?

Yes. No. So we're -- like what we're saying is it's going to happen. We'll turn DTC on in Q1. We're ready for it. Like what we -- and the reason that we did Q1 and not Q4, and frankly, most companies would wait 12 or 18 months is that we're a self-pay product. So we don't have to wait until the product is on formulary and covered by insurance. So we're not helped on the back end by that. At the same time, you don't want to do it too early because you want to make sure that your doctor base is ready to serve all those patients that are coming in, that they know about the product, you going back to that, that there is awareness that have confidence because they've used it, and therefore, they're ready to prescribe. We're at that point now, we feel. We'll continue in the next couple of months, and it will continue to grow, but we're getting very close to, in our mind, being ready to start the DTC. There is a practical component to it. We shut the commercial a couple of weeks ago in New York. That needs to go through production that needs to be signed up. That needs to go through an RN, what's called MLR, then it needs to be shown to the FDA. So there's just steps involved, logistics involved that need to take that course. But you'll see it and you won't be able to miss it.

Okay. All right. Thank you very much, Evert.

Thank you, Yigal. Really appreciate it.

Thanks, everyone.

Okay. Thanks.