Limbach Holdings, Inc. (LMB) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Greetings, and welcome to the Limbach Holdings Third Quarter 2022 Earnings Call. [Operator Instructions] As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. [Operator Instructions] And it is now my pleasure to introduce to you, Jeremy Hellman of The Equity Group. Thank you, Jeremy. Please go ahead.

Thank you very much, and good morning, everyone. Yesterday, Limbach Holdings announced its third quarter 2022 results and filed its Form 10-Q for the quarter ended September 30, 2022. During this call, the company will be reviewing those results and providing an update on current market conditions. Today's discussion may contain forward-looking statements, and actual results may differ from any forecasts, projections or similar statements made during the earnings call. Listeners are reminded to review the company's annual report on Form 10-K and quarterly reports on Form 10-Q for risk factors that may cause the actual results to differ from forward-looking statements made during the earnings call. With that, I'll turn the call over to Charlie Bacon, the President and Chief Executive Officer of Limbach Holdings. Please go ahead, Charlie.

Good morning. Welcome, everyone, and thanks for joining us. With me today is our Chief Financial Officer, Jayme Brooks; our Chief Operating Officer, Michael McCann; and our Executive Vice President of Acquisitions, Matthew Katz. We are calling you from Tampa this morning where we are experiencing a tropical storm. We are in a facility with an emergency generator, but should we lose you during the call, we will -- we have a backup plan, and we will call it, just give us a moment to dial back in, should that happen? As always, I want to start by thanking our employees for their outstanding work. We had a terrific third quarter, and those results were well earned by the entire organization. The efforts of our team from our business unit leaders to our craft workers, service technicians and corporate and branch staff are paying off as reflected in our very solid financial and operating results. As we continue to pursue a transformational strategy, Limbach is evolving and building a sustainable value at the same time. I'm tremendously proud of our employees and their contributions. For those joining us for the first time, we're in the midst of a transformation of the business model to focus more on building owners and on partnering with them to optimize mission-critical mechanical, electrical and plumbing systems. Those building systems represent significant capital investments for our customers and are fundamental to the proper functioning performance of our customers' business models. We have 2 distinct business segments: first, the owner-direct relationship or ODR, includes project work and services provided directly to facility owners. The second, general contractor relationships or GCR, includes work performed as a subcontractor to a general contractor or construction manager. In 2019, we implemented a strategic shift to accomplish 2 key objectives: first, to rapidly expand the lower-risk, higher-margin ODR segment; and second, to rationalize the GCR segment through a focus on improving operational performance, profitability and cash flow generation. At the same time, the GCR segment constituted approximately 80% of consolidated revenue and generated an unacceptable level of volatility in earnings and cash flow. A key priority was to set a midterm goal of achieving a 50-50 segment revenue mix by 2025, which we believed would help us achieve both key objectives. The rationale for the strategic shift was fairly simple. We realized better returns and superior cash flow generation from the ODR segment as a result of the direct relationship with facility owner, which provides stable, consistent and recurring project work and related services. Within the GCR segment, we know that when we cherry pick the right projects, which includes knowing the building owner, allocating labor and having a smart contract will generate better profitability and improved cash flow. At the time, we believe this strategy would lead to better execution with predictable growing profits and increasing cash generation. Our experience in executing that strategy over the last 3 years has proven us right. With our results this quarter and the previous quarters over the past 2-plus years, we now have the financial proof that we have the right strategy to build sustainable value. Turning to our results. Our transition to the owner-focused business continues at an accelerated pace, positioning us to achieve a 50-50 segment revenue split next year, which would be 2 years ahead of schedule. As we've said for some time, we've undertaken this transformation with several goals in mind, improving our consolidated gross profit and net income margins, driving better cash flow conversion and reducing the overall risk profile of the business. Consolidated gross margin of 20.3% in Q3 was a company record as was consolidated gross margin of 18.8% for the trailing 12-month period ending September 30. Performance was fueled by excellent execution in our GCR segment and strong revenue growth in the higher-margin ODR segment, which contributed 48.8% of Limbach's total revenue for the quarter. This compares to 30.4% of revenues in the same period last year. Cash flow from operations for the quarter was $10.4 million, bringing the total to $23 million year-to-date despite getting off to a slow start in Q1. The significant cash flow generation allowed us to continue to reduce debt as our term debt declined by $2.4 million in the quarter, excluding vehicle finance leases and the Pontiac sale-leaseback financing liability, we have paid down our long-term debt by $11.6 million from December 31, 2021. Third quarter ODR sales of $62.8 million were up 40.1% from last year's third quarter, resulting in an ODR segment backlog of $124.5 million at September 30, up 4.4% from $119.3 million at the end of the second quarter and up 27% from December 31. We also ended the quarter with GCR backlog of $332.8 million, up 7.8% from the $308.8 million at June 30. We remain on track to deliver a solid year. With strong performance year-to-date and a solid outlook, we're increasing the adjusted EBITDA portion of our financial guidance for this year while tightening our revenue range. We tightened our full year revenue range to be between $510 million to $530 million compared with $510 million to $540 million previously. And now expect adjusted EBITDA of $27 million to $30 million, up from our previous guidance of $25 million to $29 million. I want to spend a few minutes describing our business in what I call recession-resilient positioning of the company to succeed even in the face of weakening economic conditions. We often emphasize the key themes of diversity of the business and how we are essential to our customers, especially building owners. I want to provide more detail on how our business is well diversified in 4 primary ways: First, we have 16 offices that service over 30 key metro areas east of the Mississippi. Demand for nonresidential mechanical, electrical and plumbing services driven by local demographics and economic activity. Our geographic markets are largely uncorrelated in this respect; second, we offer customers a wide range of services from front-end engineering and design through construction and importantly, service and maintenance. Demand for service and maintenance capabilities driven by ordinary wear and tear and equipment as well as ongoing supply chain issues. Building owners have a critical need for maintenance services to keep their equipment up and running when replacement equipment is not available. We also anticipate the possibility of a strong replacement cycle once the supply chains normalize; third, we operate in a large, uncorrelated and critical end markets from health care to data centers to industrial manufacturing. Health care is one of our largest end markets, but we continue to see growth throughout many of the markets we serve. Finally, we maintain a broad diverse set of customers ranging from well-capitalized Fortune 100 customers to thriving middle market industrial companies that form the foundation of many local economies. We're focused on strong relationships, expanding our services and revenue and increasing what I refer to as wallet share. These key factors underscore our continued strong pipeline of opportunities for both of our segments. The building systems we design, build and service are often, if not always, mission-critical for the building owner. Data centers that operate 24/7 365 allow Internet companies to make sure their platforms are always available for users. Hospitals simply could not operate if the air handling systems go down. These are examples of mission-critical systems and the list goes on and on. By cultivating these customer relationships, our goal to expand wallet share drives long-term growth in our business. With that, I'll hand it off to Jayme to provide more details on the quarter.

Thanks, Charlie. Our earnings press release and our Form 10-Q contain a detailed review of our financials. So I'll focus my discussion in some key areas. Total revenue for the quarter was $122.4 million versus $129.2 million in the prior year quarter. The lower level of total revenue for the quarter is the result of our continuous intentional rationalization of the GCR business to reduce risk and maximize profits. GCR revenue for the third quarter was $62.7 million versus $90 million in last year's period. ODR revenue continues to grow and increased $20.5 million or 52.2% to $59.7 million compared to the prior year. Within the ODR segment, the acquisition of Jake Marshall in December of 2021 contributed $10.2 million of the year-over-year increase and the remaining increase of $10.3 million representing organic growth of 26.3%. Growth in the ODR segment was driven primarily by the increase in larger owner-direct project work. Larger project work, which is defined as projects in excess of $500,000, which grew approximately 68% from a year ago and approximately 18% from the second quarter. We also experienced solid growth in maintenance revenue as well as T&M work, which grew 19% sequentially and 48% on a year-over-year basis. For the third quarter, ODR gross margin was 25.5% and GCR gross margin was 15.4% for consolidated gross margin of 20.3%. This compared to consolidated gross margin of 18.9% in Q3 of last year and 18.4% in Q2 of 2022. The overall improvement in the consolidated gross margin was a function of our revenue composition, continuing to shift to ODR and improvement in our GCR gross margin from the prior year period. GCR gross margin improved to 15.4% from 14.2% last year. However, GCR gross profit decreased $3.1 million because of lower revenue in the segment. ODR gross profit increased $3.5 million due to an increase in revenue despite a lower margin of $25.5 million versus $29.8 million. This lower margin was driven by project mix and timing in the third quarter of 2021. Our SG&A expense for the quarter was $18.7 million, which is relatively flat compared to the first and second quarters, and increased from $18.3 million in the prior year quarter. Third quarter SG&A included the SG&A costs for the acquired Jake Marshall entities which were not in last year's SG&A, partially offset by a $0.7 million increase in payroll-related expenses and $0.2 million decrease in rent-related expenses. Considering the progress of winding down our business operations in Southern California and the GCR segment in Eastern Pennsylvania, we expect both to be substantially complete by the end of this year. The expense associated with winding down these operations and other nonrecurring expenses associated with cost reduction initiatives throughout the company have impacted our 2022 quarter-to-date and year-to-date income before income taxes by $1.4 million and $4.3 million, respectively. This compared to 3- and 9-month period in 2021, during which the unprofitable Southern California operation and the Eastern Pennsylvania GCR segment unfavorably impacted our income before income taxes by $1.2 million and $4.4 million, respectively. At this point, we've worked through the cost savings initiatives additionally identified as part of our plan for the year, and we will realize the full year cost savings going into 2023. We have also prioritized the implementation of ongoing processes to ensure we are efficient with our expenses as we work to scale the business. Turning to cash on the balance sheet. During the third quarter, operating activities generated cash of $10.4 million. Year-to-date cash from operating activities was $23 million. As was the case last quarter, our strong cash flow was due to a combination of factors as we continue our focus on cash generation and working capital management. The operations of the business generated cash, and we experienced continued improvement in our cash collections and net overbill position, primarily due to the resolution of a claim settlement in Q3 of 2022, which provided $5.9 million in cash in addition to the cash generated from operating the business. For the quarter, free cash flow generated from operating the business before working capital changes was $6.6 million. This includes net income of $3.6 million, plus noncash operating activities of $3 million, which is primarily depreciation, amortization, noncash operating lease expense and stock-based compensation less $252,000 of CapEx. As we suggested, we believe a reasonable way to view cash generated from operating the business is to start with net income, add back noncash operating activities and then subtract capital expenditures. Using this methodology for estimating our free cash flow, free cash flow conversion as a percentage of adjusted EBITDA, was approximately 62% for the quarter, and we are targeting an annual 70% conversion rate when we achieve an annual segment revenue split of 50-50. Additionally, this quarter, we entered into a sale and leaseback transaction for our facility in Pontiac, Michigan. This transaction provided us with $4.9 million of cash, net of issuance costs and a $2.4 million tenant improvement allowance. Our annual rent is approximately $500,000 and is expensed to interest as this transaction was classified as a finance lease per GAAP. The implicit rate associated with the aggregate purchase value of $7.8 million, which is inclusive of the tenant improvement allowances was 6.5%. With the current escalating interest rates, we were very pleased with the outcome of this transaction. Our strong performance in Q3 and cash position has enabled us to continue to reduce our term debt. We repaid $1.8 million through scheduled monthly amortization and $0.6 million upon the receipt of cash proceeds from the reported claim resolution. In total, we reduced the term loan balance by $2.4 million during the quarter. We ended the third quarter with cash of $28.4 million, up from $19.6 million at the end of the second quarter. At quarter end, we had no borrowings on our revolver and a total term debt position of $23.3 million, inclusive of the short-term portion. Additionally, during the third quarter, we hedged approximately $10 million of our term debt, fixing it at a term SOFR rate of 3.12% through July 2027. At September 30, 2020, the interest rate in effect for the $10 million hedged portion of the term debt was 7.22% and the non-hedged portion of the term debt was 7.25%. We have also noted for some time that outstanding claims represent potential significant cash coming into the business. We work constantly towards resolving our pending claims. And at this time, we are down to 3 major claims remaining, which are in active negotiations. These outstanding claims totaled over $40 million, and we will continue to actively pursue recovery. However, given the nature of these claims and the process by which they may be resolved, we are not able to provide a value or a time frame in which these claims might be resolved. To conclude, our continued improving performance is driving strong operating cash flow allowing us to rapidly pay down our debt while also providing ample ability to fund potential acquisitions and the share repurchase program we announced at the end of September. I'll now pass the call to Mike to discuss operational highlights.

Thanks, Jayme. Financial and operating results in the third quarter continue to demonstrate the potential of the ODR-centric business model to improve profitability and cash flow generation. Our strategy and associated processes we put in place in 2019 continue to improve the quality of our earnings. We believe there's even more room to run as we optimize our revenue mix, expand our key building owner relationships and develop additional products and service offerings. When we reflect back on the ODR journey we've taken, we can identify a handful of key business drivers that continue to form the basis of our success. Improvements in data collection and analysis that allows us for real-time visibility into project performance. This enabled us to get ahead of issues as well as opportunities, an obsessive focus on account management. We recognize the leverage that even a handful of meaningful customers can have on the operating model in a local business unit. The value of being a specialist in each market instead of a generalist. Having a defined niche provides competitive differentiation and generally means above average returns in those markets. The opportunity to drive margin improvement through better project selection and leverage of our design and engineering capabilities as well as a focus on providing integrated solutions instead of just one-off project delivery. There's one comment that I want to add to Charlie's summary of the transformation we're undertaking. We don't operate a one-size-fits-all model. While we do strive to implement and achieve consistency across the business units with respect to these operating themes and core processes, we have to acknowledge that each business unit is different. Different customers, different skills and talent and different local market dynamics. In some locations, that means our business unit is 100% ODR focused. In other markets that could mean that our business units generating 80% of its revenue from GCR opportunities, but those opportunities are the type that makes sense given the return profile of each along with the capabilities of the local team. What that means on a consolidated basis is that we expect to see continued growth in the ODR business, which is a common theme across all of our business units. Because GCR is not a strategy everywhere, though, the volume of activity in that segment is like a likely to be a little bit more volatile in the quarters and years ahead. We're concentrating that work in fewer places, so there's less balance on a consolidated basis. And those locations are really good at executing GCR work, and that frequently mean that some larger GCR work ongoing or in the backlog, but that could be more episodic. So activity within the GCR segment could have higher peaks and lower troughs given the concentration in a handful of business units. But we have no intention of sacrificing quality or risk management. I've commented on the holistic approach to the business model, and Jayme has addressed performance by segment. So I'll now focus on sales and overall activity Charlie touched on earlier. As a reminder, when we refer to sales, we're talking about work or projects for which we have contracted as opposed to revenue, which is we have actually done the work and build a customer. In general, we continue to benefit from a solid operating environment. Third quarter ODR sales of $62.8 million were up 40.1% from last quarter -- from last year's third quarter. Sales of ODR prices in T&M were again particularly strong, with product sales up almost 40% year-over-year and T&M sales up almost 50% year-over-year. As of September 30, ODR segment backlog was $124.5 million, up 4.4% from $119.3 million at the end of the second quarter and up 27% from December 31. We ended the quarter with GCR backlog of $332.8 million, up 7.7% from $308.8 million at June 30. That positions GCR well through the end of the year into [ 2013 ]. The I want to stress again that in adding to the GCR backlog, we believe we are remaining disciplined when it comes to the work we're pursuing. We have a good pipeline and we're selective. Supply chains continue to be an issue with constant demand for core materials absorbing any slack that develops. For us, it has caused our quick hitting ODR work, whether time and material or service and maintenance work to be very busy. Equipment deliveries can push or pull revenue from one period to another, we are coaching building owners to make proactive decisions on their capital infrastructure programs. These decisions include preordering equipment on one side of the spectrum, and on the other side, we have seen customers ask them to help rebuild equipment in place. Our ODR focused strategy has helped position us to be a partner for building owners and directly assist them with their infrastructure and building operational needs. Taken all together, we feel good about the outlook. Now I'll pass it over to Matt.

Thanks, Mike. In the acquisition, there's been a modest increase in seller activity in the last few months. We continue to hear the same things from business owners. They're not getting any younger businesses a lot harder than it used to be and business just isn't as much fun as it used to be, all of which is great news for us in that we offer some unique solutions to those problems. And that message is resonating really well with nearly everyone we speak with. We're offering cultural continuity for like-minded businesses, a supportive environment for a local brand and the employees and a breadth and depth of resources that's really difficult for smaller businesses to develop and invest behind. So what we realize that we'll often have to compete for transactions in some way. We're seeing progress toward achieving a goal of being the preferred buyer for local and regional contractors. And for the front end of our acquisition and being that preferred buyer is really what our goal is. That being said, we're also dealing with human nature. There's a busy environment, and this is a life-changing decision for a lot of business owners. So for sellers, that often leads to a lot of reflection and inspection, longer -- less predictable and potentially less streamlined transaction time lines for us. There's a lot of starts and stops, and there's the occasional deal that falls apart at some point, but that maybe comes back to life down the road. So someone who hires an adviser probably made at least a loose commitment to getting a deal done, but that's not usually the opportunity that we're pursuing. And in many cases, we're trying to acquire the business that isn't necessarily for sale. So we have to remain patient and disciplined and be willing to push and pull opportunities in response to sellers time lines and transaction processes. The market data points that we've seen this year haven't given us any reason to change our focus -- that continues to be businesses located east of the Mississippi River in smaller, secondary and tertiary markets, dominant local market brands, strong and compatible cultures and core values, execution excellence, exposure to attractive end markets like health care, higher education and industrial and manufacturing and then at least some elements of an ODR foundation, something we can build on. We also continue to feel good about the valuation paradigm for these types of businesses. It's consistent with how we approach last year's Jake Marshall transaction. We need to find the balance between offering value to the business owner and still creating value for Limbach, all without stressing the balance sheet or absorbing all of the company's liquidity. Building on Mike's comment about the key themes and drivers of the ODR journey we've experienced over the last few years, we've taken that experience and developed some process technology that we can apply to the acquisition candidates. Like with our own business units, it's not a one-size-fits-all approach. So we definitely see opportunities now that we might not have seen a couple of years ago, and we feel better equipped to capture the resulting value. We've also engaged with a lot of business owners who share our frustrations over how the industry has evolved in the GCR market. and who are eager to benefit from the lessons that we've learned, and that's been a real competitive advantage, we think. So with all that said, we remain concentrated on our areas of focus, and we remain disciplined in our process. We obviously can't make predictions related to growth through acquisitions, but we continue to believe that we've got the right areas of focus and the right process as we pursue this type of growth. Finally, just a few comments to wrap up about Jake Marshall. As we approach the 1-year anniversary of the transaction early next month, integration continues to proceed well. We feel comfortable now that we've got a repeatable and battle-tested core process for integration. As Jayme noted, Jake Marshall has been a strong contributor to the company's overall growth in ODR this year, and we continue to really like the opportunities in that market. Charlie?

Thanks, Matt. In short, we're very optimistic about Limbach's prospects. Insiders have bought shares many times over the past year, and we announced the share repurchase program right at the end of the third quarter. So we're certainly standing behind this viewpoint. Our aggressive shift to an ODR focused business already is delivering gross margins above our peers. In our investor presentation that is available on our website, we have a slide that details this. Jayme noted, restructuring initiatives we have undertaken this year to improve our operations. And with those expenses dropping off next year, we expect to see our operating margins improve. In addition, we're focused on continuing to scale up our business, both through organic growth in the ODR segment and through acquisition. As I stated earlier, we are tightening our revenue guidance for the year while increasing our adjusted EBITDA expectations. We currently expect revenues to be in the range of $510 million to $530 million and adjusted EBITDA of between $27 million and $30 million. In addition, our new investor presentation contains a number of other helpful modeling parameters. Our team is executing our plan and it's working. With that, we'll take your questions.

[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from the line of Rob Brown with Lake Street Capital Markets.

Congratulations on a nice quarter. Just wanted to get a little more color on the demand environment in the current economic environment. I know you've addressed it some of the ins and outs, but how do you sort of see that playing out? And what markets are sort of strong and what markets are maybe a little weaker?

Rob, this is Mike. Thanks for the question. It's interesting that we -- what we've seen in the market, we see tremendous demand for what we provide. Just I think one of our key focuses is we're really looking for buildings and business owners that have mission-critical systems and that's really what's been a key differentiator for us. And I would look at it this way as kind of the current environment plays with our strategy. We're very account focused along with the mission-critical systems. And that's really led us to partner with building owners and kind of almost flex with their spend. And I'll use a couple of examples of this too. One was a national health care company that -- their spend as they look into the next year or so has basically flexed from some large greenfield new site construction to existing building construction which plays perfectly for what we're looking forward to. And that's going to lead to more OR switch outs and they're looking for areas of the hospital where they can get a quick return, and that's led to more of an existing building type approach. The other example is a Fortune 500 company that shifted their spend from again, larger, newer construction to retrofit from a service and maintenance perspective. So definitely, we see the mission-critical systems especially on the health care, we've seen great demand from that, and I think especially from an existing building perspective.

Rob, I want to just add a bit more to that. the account management processes that we're focusing in on right now might use the word we're aggressively pushing that as we are. We think there's a lot more opportunity for us to expand. Again, I call it wallet share, but basically increasing the revenue streams out of an existing customer base. We have over 1,200 customers. And right now quite frankly, we're looking at the top 30, laser-focused on the top 30 accounts that we think we could rapidly expand. And we're going to continue to work our way through the expansive list of customers that we have, those Fortune 100 customers they need us, and I use that word essential. So we're pretty pumped up about what we've laid out in front of ourselves. And we know it's working because we've got the evidence of the proof of expanding our wallet share with certain customers today.

Great. And then maybe on the SG&A cost, they seem to have come down a little bit. How is that trend line? And how do you see that going forward, Jayme?

Yes, I would expect next quarter to be fairly similar. And then we're basically working to maintain that level of SG&A as we're trying to offset increase due to inflation and for salaries, those types of things as well as professional services. So we're offsetting that with the cost reductions that we've identified. So I would think it to be fairly constant. As we target revenue is going to grow and that we're getting to that 13% to 13.5% number that we put out for SG&A margin in the long term.

Our next question comes from the line of Chip Moore with EF Hutton.

Congrats on the execution on the transformation, everybody. I wanted to ask about the 50-50 split. I think I heard you say you could hit that next year or 2 years ahead of plan, pretty remarkable. Just -- any thoughts on handicapping that or kind of what you need to go right to get to that 50-50 split potentially next year?

Great. Chip, thanks for the question. Right now, we're definitely on track to hit that 50-50 with the way we're operating the business and again, expanding the relationships with these owners. And in all reality, we're going to blow through that. You're going to see a constant increase in ODR revenue with the business. And the GCR side of the business probably will level off, we suggest a slight contraction going into next year. But when you look at the ODR opportunity, you've already seen the growth percentages. We're suggesting not modeling at those larger numbers that we are achieving to stay conservative but we see a lot of opportunity in front of us. So does the mix shift 60-40, 70-30, answer is probably yes.

Got it. Fantastic. That's helpful, Charlie. As a follow-up, I wanted to ask on the sort of the replacement cycle you alluded to as supply chain normalizes. Presumably, that's something you have great visibility on it. It sounds like just -- help us think about how this could play out, say, next year if things loosen up, would this be sort of upside to what we're seeing now sort of best of both worlds? Or how would you think about that potentially?

Chip, this is Mike. Thanks for the question. It's interesting on the supply chain. Our business units are kind of used to the new cycle or paradigm of lead times at this point. I kind of -- we have opportunity in both ends of the spectrum. Right now, there's lots of opportunities because the equipment has taken a long time. There's 2 different areas that we've seen extensive growth. And one is I can't get the equipment and I need to make a quick repair or I need you to have one of our talented service person, I need them on site at all the time to manage that equipment. The second piece of it that we've seen recently. And I'd say in the last 6 months, when building owners and customers start to realize that this equipment lead time supply chain issue is still ongoing is what can we do right now to get that equipment replaced. And we look -- we talked to customers, and we've had pretty good success with this of replacing equipment in place by certain components. There was an example of a mission-critical customer that it was a food processing customer where they had to get the equipment back up and running. We changed a particular component of it. They got a 30% energy efficiency pickup based upon that switching. So we are able to switch the components in place. The other side of the supply chain, too, from an ODR perspective is when they know they can't get what they want, and it's still taking a long time, they go back to us because we're their partner. We spend time with them looking for what a creative solution may be. We use our design group and we work for them to figure out how can we solve their problem in the short term. Eventually, we do see the supply chain, obviously easing up. We haven't seen that as of late. But right now, even with the supply chain, the way it is, we've seen tons of opportunities for high-margin work.

Interesting. That's super helpful. Yes. So it sounds like, if anything, it's deepen the relationships and kind of benefit.

Absolutely.

The next question comes from the line of Gerry Sweeney with ROTH Capital.

Obviously, ODR is the topic du jour, so I want to keep sort of digging in on that a little bit. But -- do we -- should we look at the client base really and the number of clients really as the driver of the business or sort of a benchmark? And I know, Charlie, you sort of touched upon your total customers and how much you're interacting with. But just curious if that's something we should continue just to watch as a benchmark or a driver because I do believe there's a certain amount of pull-through as you get deeper with some of these customers.

Gerry, we've talked about our ODR customers quite a bit here over the past several years, and we keep looking for the better customers out there. We're actually directing our sales teams to be laser-focused on what's the potential of the owner. Where can it go? Clearly, Fortune 100 companies, there's a tremendous opportunity. But even in the mid-market type businesses, we're just asking our people to look at the selection of an ODR customer where we can really maximize the return on the human capital and grow the relationship, grow the revenue stream, grow the wallet share. So today, we do have the 1,200-plus customers. And we are talking internally, are there a better set of KPIs we could provide. We haven't determined that yet. But when I referenced the top 30 that we're looking at, I'm wondering if there could be a benchmark there that we could start sharing. We're not ready to do that yet, but basically to provide more color on kind of how are our top, top bigger customers working out for us, Mike made a comment. Certain big customers can make a dramatic difference in one of our local regional markets. So this is a really important part of the strategy going forward, aggressive account management. So not ready to kind of share any new KPIs, but we're trying to think through what else can we provide.

No, that's fair. And that's good. And how do you get better penetration of these guys or even go downstream? And which sort of evolves into the question of differentiated services moving up the stack. There was a little bit of talk about data, maybe even predictive management or maintenance. There's -- I sense there's going to be a longer-term evolution also with ODR.

Gerry, it's Mike. Thanks for the question. Yes, you're absolutely right. This is a long-term play. Again, if we look at our business units, they have to select properly and be disciplined to the marketing strategy, but dedicating resource and specifically account manager dedicated to that really makes the initial push, I would say. We've got to gain trust. We're looking for long-term relationships with those customers. Once we maintain trust, then they're starting to discuss to us once we -- and we prove confidence is the overall look of their business, and that's where we can provide our solutions to more of a holistic infrastructure look. What we believe differentiates us is we're focused on accounts, not opportunities, we're focused on solution not bidding. So ultimately, once we gain trust, we spend time with the customer, then we can have more evolved solutions and when we get in there, that's what's really going to drive the margins at that point. But to your point, it's an evolution of the account. And what we do is we stick with it, we dedicate resources and we work with them to become a trusted adviser.

And our next question comes from the line of Jon Old with Long Meadow Investors.

An incredible quarter. I appreciate all your hard work. I was wondering if you could just talk a little bit more about the 3 claims that are remaining. Any color on -- I know you can't be exact, but could you maybe be able to provide an estimate that maybe by the end of '23, they would be resolved? Or just any more color would be great.

Jon, thank you for the positive comments about our progress. It's great, we appreciate it. The claims are very, very active, all 3 of them, in various stages of back and forth, probably more activity than we've seen over the past year. So we're pretty excited about it. We mentioned the rail to Dulles settlement happened. And that was a bit of a surprise how that happened so quickly. We were starting to project maybe next year, but then all of a sudden it just got resolved. And actually, I just found out through a conversation earlier this week where I was with a customer, how it all happened so fast. And basically, it was a change in leadership with that particular public authority. A new director came in and wanted all the old stuff cleaned up. He did not want that on his watch. That's how it got settled so quickly. So the timing of these things, it's really -- it's frustrating because we want to get that cash in the door, but I can assure you right now all 3 of the major claims are very, very active. And we're hoping to see actually one of them possibly resolve this year, which might mean cash in Q1 or Q2, depending on the timing of when they pay. But all 3 are extremely active right now.

Okay. Then maybe one for Jayme. I'm just trying to reconcile the -- if you look through -- if you look at the guidance numbers and what's been provided, I mean, the fourth quarter revenues would have to come in around 100 -- I'm just making the round numbers, $160 million or so and the EBITDA would be $8 million plus. So the revenues are much higher than the third quarter and much higher than last year's fourth quarter and yet the suggested EBITDA is less than the last quarter and last year's fourth quarter. What am I missing there?

So we're just trying to be cautious going into the end of the quarter. We have a lot of material delivery that's going to come with equipment at the end of the quarter. And so just being cautious around when that -- the timing of that. But yes, I mean, that's why we increased -- we're expecting to increase the bottom line between that $27 million to $30 million for the full year. And because of that revenue piece of it, that's where you see the tightening of the revenue numbers.

Jon, the...

I'm just saying that the middle of the range, the guidance would be like $8.5 million or so, which is well below -- which is below the just reported quarter and below last year's fourth quarter, which I think was $9.5 million, and yet the revenues are going to be much higher than both those quarters.

Jon, we are trending towards the higher end of guidance today, the way we're looking at our forecast and a lot of it has to do with these major equipment deliveries that are happening in December, actually. Everything is scheduled right now. But as we've experienced over these past 2 years, some things do slip. But as of right now, we have the visibility.

Okay. All right. And then I'll just make a final just a comment. I mean, your hard work and great effort and incredible execution. I'm just saying has been fantastic, but it still hasn't been reflected in the stock price. And -- so I mean, by my estimates, if I do an estimate of the claims and I think we're trading at like 2 to 3x EBITDA. So thank you for the stock purchase authorization and 9:47 the markets open. Good for me.

All right. Thank you, Jon.

Our next question comes from the line of William Bremer with Vanquish Capital Partners.

Okay. I have a few. First, let's go to cash flow, which consistently is getting better and better. But I'm seeing an elevated level of accounts receivables and is that due to the mix shift or because I feel as though cash flow could have even been stronger.

It's really timing as we have -- if you look at the balance sheet, we have our contract assets. So you have basically amounts that we've not been able to build for. So it's really a timing of shift from those underbillings and overbillings into AR and then the collection of that. We've not really seen much of a lag on the churn of collecting the AR. But as we go into the next year, we're still highly focused on cash conversion and wanting to put some guidance out there and some loose guidance around what we're looking at from a cash flow conversion of adjusted EBITDA.

Okay. Got it. All right. Second question, given the hurricanes, specifically in some of your regions, were there any emergency restoration services or contracts that you were able to garner during these times?

Bill, thanks for the question. We did -- as an example of this, one of our national health care providers actually brought us on to their -- and I would call this augmented their staff for a 3- or 4-month engagement of purely working together on their staff to help resolve their problems. So that's just one example. There were several other examples as well, too. But again, I think our focus on as I mentioned before, a dedicated account manager leads us to when customers run into situations where they need help, they turn to us. And on that particular account, we had a dedicated account manager and it worked out. So again, I think things will happen. But if we're there for that account, they're going to look to us. And I think that's a perfect example of where we can get to on that.

So that particular instance they lost 5 hospitals, 5 hospitals shut down. And 3 of them we were able to help them get restored very quickly. They're back up and running, 2 of them were severely damaged. One was actually in the Wall Street Journal, they gave an example roof ripped off and the ER was flooded. And we were asked to come in actually the day before the hurricane hit to help them get organized to provide a program management service to help them with their overall needs of getting those buildings back open. The only way that happens is because of the trust that they have with us. And when we talked a bit earlier during the call about the account management, aggressive account management and Mike emphasized the issue of building trust through solutions-based offerings. That's the direction of where the company is going. So we only see that opportunity being amplified as we continue to focus.

Nicely done, and that's exactly how these relationships over the long term truly build. My last question is on a capital structure priority. Is it -- the late September announcement of the share buyback versus the paying down of debt. What is the priority that your team has?

So when we look at the capital allocation, Bill, we're looking at all the opportunities that are available to us. Our priority right now is really looking at the acquisition opportunities that are out there to scale up the business. And we're very focused, laser focused to create the proper deals that are transactable with the seller and obviously, an opportunity for us to help them go beyond where we are going to buy them out at 4 to 5x EBITDA. And we see those opportunities. And it's been a very interesting environment, as Matt alluded to, sitting with the owners and explaining to them where we're going with our strategy and the proof we have that it works. The owners of these businesses are really intrigued because they're tired of getting burned by general contractors and they really like the ODR focus. So Matt's been nurturing those relationships through business development and explaining where we can help them when they become part of Limbach. So it's been an interesting environment. We just have to find the right deals. We want to continue to strengthen our balance sheet and quite frankly, have the dry powder available to execute those opportunities when they're presented to us. So right now, I'd say the majority of our focus is going to be on scaling up the business in that range of multiple I just gave you for the deployment of our capital.

Okay. Great. Hopefully, that's in a new geographic region. I appreciate the time.

Thank you, Bill.

And our next question comes from the line of [ Chip Brown ] with [indiscernible] Group.

I hope you guys are being safe out there. Real quick, ignoring the corporate set of SG&A, I just wanted to see if you guys could shed some more light on any material cost shifts in your overhead going forward. I mean -- on a trailing 12-month basis, ODR is actually up 21% or so, 26%, excuse me, year-over-year despite being down this quarter. So is there any -- anything that we can expect material going forward on the cost side for overhead, excluding acquisitions?

So from an ODR perspective, the SG&A ranges for ODR are higher than GCR. So we are rapidly growing the ODR element, and we gave the percentages earlier between 40% and 50% year-on-year. So yes, there has been some increase in SG&A on the ODR side. And what we are looking to do is to shift some of the expenses away from GCR as GCR kind of levels out and actually get a better return on the ODR piece. So we are shifting resources over to ODR. So that's gone well. And quite frankly, we are adding to the ODR piece in terms of investment with account managers, we -- obviously, that's a theme of today's call. The other part is we continue to look for technology solutions not necessarily to build new programs and things like that, but to team with channel partners. So we're putting in some resources to look at expanding that to a sales platform. And again, it's all part of expanding the relationship with the owner, how can we help them with predictive analytics, basically AI. And we actually have found a channel partner, right? We are deploying that as a pilot. So there's a bit of expense there, too. But as Jayme said, we continue to look for the opportunities to reduce overall SG&A, but we are facing some headwinds in terms of just inflationary costs with salaries and compensation and professional services that we have to employ. But we're working hard, obviously, to keep that level and not see a bunch of increases.

That's fair. And in regards to the acquisitions going forward, that baked in not just overhead, but actually your actual cash flow. The cash flow conversion rate is attractive. But when we add that back in, the acquisition cost of that cash side of that, it's obviously a deterrent. So can we expect with your strategy of 1 to 3 a year, us noticing that cash flow and within both segments on a consolidated basis?

Could you repeat? It was breaking up at end the last part that you've said.

On -- hit the cash flow, actual cash acquisition costs, if you're doing 1 to 3 a year, what can we expect going forward? Where will that be accounted for? Where can we model that out? And what's that going to be like? I mean some of your competitors do some unique things like they have a note payable on 1/3 of the actual acquisition costs going forward. So anything that any color you can share on that, on the actual cash cost to your overhead and CapEx going forward?

We build that into kind of the ultimate return on that investment. So we look at those kind of the onetime costs as we go forward, what that is and when we're actually doing the acquisition, and then we look at it from a long-term perspective that -- what's onetime cost versus ongoing. So that will play through those numbers. I'm not sure are you looking for adjustments?

I mean, yes, it's not nonrecurring, if you're having 1 to 3 a year, right? And with Jake Marshall's deal last year, it was announced what between 3Q and 4Q or on December 2. That with the $20 million cash, with the cash earn-out, I think you guys have to pay like what, half of the cash earn-out this year. So going forward, is that going to be your strategy for acquisitions? Is that we kind of just assume that would be the normal approach or could it be?

Matt, would you mind jumping to me, please?

Yes. Sure. So Chip, the structure that we've been working through and that's been reasonably well received in the market has been a structure that provides for at least from our balance sheet, about 50% of the purchase price payable in cash and then 50% payable in cash from debt financing. So we're basically trying to balance incurrence of new debt with existing sources of liquidity. We don't want to over leverage the balance sheet, and we don't want to drain it of operating capital. And then providing in some but not all situations, depending on the business opportunity and earn out structured over generally a 2- to 3-year period, that, again, is payable in cash at the end of each of the individual years within that earnout. So we really haven't seriously considered stock as an option for transaction consideration given the relative valuation. But we are trying to really maintain a balance between existing liquidity and incurrence of additional indebtedness. And for the time being, that should continue to provide enough capital to do the deals that we'd like to do from a size point of view. Obviously, if we find something that's meaningfully bigger even than what we acquired last year, I think we'd have to take a fresh look at it. But 80% of the transactions we look at fall within the middle of the bell curve for which that structure would be appropriate.

Perfect. I appreciate it. I know you've got history with -- prior to this -- with [ FTG ]. I guess I want to know where that actual cash cost is going to where I can model that out, I mean, going forward. So I think you pretty much entered that. So I appreciate it.

Yes, no problem. Happy to follow up if you've got other questions off-line.

There are no further questions at this time. And now I would like to turn the floor back over to the CEO, Charlie Bacon, for closing remarks.

Thank you for your continued interest or newly found interest in Limbach. We're building the next chapter of the company, and we're working hard to unlock the value of Limbach for all of our shareholders. Please reach out to our Investor Relations representative, Jeremy Hellman of The Equity Group. If you have any questions about the company or want to arrange your meeting. All the best.

Thank you. This does conclude today's teleconference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation, and have a great day.