Linc Limited (531241) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Linc Limited's Q3 FY '25 Earnings Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Navin Agarwal, Head, Institutional Equities at SKP Securities Limited. Thank you, and over to Mr. Agarwal.

Good day, ladies and gentlemen. I'm pleased to welcome you to Linc Limited's Q3 FY '25 Results Con Call. We have with us Mr. Deepak Jalan, Managing Director; Mr. Aloke Jalan, Whole-Time Director; Mr. Rohit Deepak Jalan, Whole-Time Director; Mr. N.K. Dujari, Director of Finance and CFO; and Mr. Sanjeev Sancheti from Uirtus Advisors LLP, the company's IR adviser. We'll have the opening remarks from Mr. Jalan followed by a Q&A session. Thank you, and over to you, Deepak Ji.

Thank you, Navin, and good afternoon to everyone, and thank you for joining us. I'm pleased to share our Q3 FY '25 performance, highlighting our resilience, strong fundamentals and continued progress towards expanding our portfolio and strengthening our market position. Despite short-term challenges, we remain on track with our growth strategy and innovation-led expansion into new product categories. In Q3 FY '25, our operating income stood at INR 12,216 lakhs, a slight 1.4% dip compared to Q3 FY '24. While our performance in this financial year and more particularly in the Q3 FY '25 has been moderate, this period has been one of strategic investments and groundwork for future growth. We have been actively engaged in seeding multiple initiatives that will drive long-term value creation. These include new product developments and introductions, expansion into adjacent categories, strengthening our export and e-com presence and operationalizing key joint ventures. The Linc segment remains a key pillar of our business. And while it saw a 3.4% Y-o-Y debt, this was primarily due to some legacy products maturing. However, we have already taken proactive measures to refresh and expand our product lineup, ensuring sustained momentum in the coming quarters. Pentonic's recent launches witnessed a mixed response as higher-value products typically require longer adoption cycles. We remain confident that these products will gain stronger traction in the coming quarters. Despite the revenue softness, we have maintained healthy profitability. Gross profit rose by 2.9% year-on-year to INR 4,017 lakhs with gross margin expanding to 32.9% from 31.5% last year. Operating EBITDA stood at INR 1,461 lakhs, maintaining a healthy 12% margin, while PAT stood at INR 872 lakhs with a strong 7.1% margin. A key part of our long-term strategy is the successful execution of our joint ventures, which are progressing as planned. The JV with Morris Korea is advancing well and we anticipate benefits to start accruing from quarter 2 or quarter 3 of next financial year once our new manufacturing facility becomes operational, which is expected within the same time frame in Kolkata. The joint venture with Mitsubishi remains on schedule. And as previously communicated, commercial production is expected to commence from July next financial year. The Indian stationery and art materials market is estimated at INR 38,000 crores with the writing instruments segment accounting for about INR 13,000 crores, while our current TAM is less than INR 9,000 crores, we are actively expanding into adjacent categories such as markers, mechanical pencils, calculators, et cetera, positioning Linc for long-term multi-segment growth. We have an exciting product road map ahead. Markers and mechanical pencils are set for launch in quarter 1 FY '26, further strengthening our presence in writing instruments. Linc calculators launched in quarter 4 cater to the affordable segment, expanding our customer reach. With India's stationery and art materials market projected to grow at a 13% CAGR, reaching INR 72,000 crores by FY '28, we see tremendous expansion opportunities. Key growth drivers include rising literacy rates, increasing purchasing power and premiumization trends. Additionally, global per capita stationery consumption is nearly 9x that of India, presenting significant untapped potential. With a robust export business, strong traction in e-com and an expanding product portfolio, Linc is well positioned for sustained long-term growth. We remain optimistic about the future and committed to delivering innovation, operational excellence and long-term value for all stakeholders. Thank you. Over to Mr. Dujari.

Thank you, Mr. Jalan. Good afternoon, everyone. I appreciate you joining us for the FY '25 quarter 3 financial review. For quarter 3 FY '25, our operating revenue was INR 12,216 lakhs, Y-o-Y decrease by 1.4% from INR 12,396 lakhs in quarter 3 FY '24. Operating EBITDA experienced growth, increasing by 4.9% year-over-year to INR 1,461 lakhs with an operating EBITDA margin of 12%. PAT also improved by 15.3% year-on-year, reaching INR 872 lakhs and achieving a PAT margin of 7.1%. Operational efficiency remains strong, generating a cash flow of INR 4,200 lakhs from operations for the 9-month period. Further, our net debt was negative at INR 2,149 lakhs, underscoring our focus on maintaining a resilient balance sheet. Looking forward, we are confident in achieving our projected medium-term growth -- revenue growth guidance, driven by well-aligned strategic initiatives and robust business fundamentals. Now I request to open the floor for Q&A.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Rushabh Shah from BugleRock PMS.

Sir my question is in one of the calls you mentioned that you want to become [indiscernible].

Rushabh your audio is not clear. Can you speak a little louder, please?

Yes. In one of the calls you mentioned that you want to become the [indiscernible] of pen industry. [indiscernible] but your journey will be very difficult. So what steps are you taking to go towards that aspiration? What challenges do we face on this road?

So thank you for your question, which is quite relevant. So we realized -- definitely, when I mentioned this, I meant that our distribution expanding to the non-stationery outlets. So reaching the general stores and FMCG stores and make our products available at those outlets. However, we realized that the ball pen category is very competitive and the cost of reaching those outlets was really quite high. So we tweaked our strategy of rather serving more deeply our existing stationery outlets and expanding our -- expanding into other adjacent categories like we were just focused on pens, but just being in the pens category could be challenging for growth. So we thought that it was wise that we must build a stationery portfolio rather than just being in the pens. But definitely, the greater focus is on the -- still on the writing instruments. And we like to tread this path more cautiously and profitably.

Second part of the question what challenges you think we face in this journey?

So as I mentioned that the challenge -- see, it's a low entry barrier category, the pen. So there is an intense competition. And so it would be difficult to grow at our desired pace. This is what we realize that just keeping our focus on pens could be not really worthwhile. So that's what I mentioned that we thought that we must get into other categories. Yes. And as I mentioned, that cost of reaching those non-stationery outlets is also very expensive. It does not mean that we have not -- we are not trying to cater to them. We are also catering to them, but that aggressive plan is a little bit on hold.

Okay. Second question is, how is the export market shaping for us, sir? Could you please share your view -- how?

Sorry.

Rushabh again we are breaking your audio.

How has the export market shaping for us, sir? Could you please share your views on how big it could be? And where do we stand in the whole export market?

Okay. So Rohit is here, who looks after exports, and he'll give a brief on our export's initiatives.

Rohit here. So on the exports front, we are quite positive. We are on a double-digit growth and we are expected to grow this in the coming quarters. We are -- our export business is quite distributed across the globe. So if you look at Latin America, North America, Eastern Europe, Africa and even Asia Pacific. So some of our strong regions are Asia Pacific and Latin America. Lately, even U.S.A., Mexico that we've entered through a national distributor has been showing positive and good results. So we opened a couple of new markets as well in the last quarter. That's Morocco and Indonesia and Turkey. So exports look quite positive, and yes.

Okay, I will get back in the queue.

[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Chirag Pachisia from SKP Securities.

So in a previous call, you mentioned that for FY '26, the top line could become like INR 600 crores, but I also remember last quarter, we left it open-ended. So do we still have it open ended? Or have you put a number to it?

Well, looking at the numbers of the first 9 months of this financial year, the growth looks very moderate for the current financial year. Nevertheless, for FY '26, we are still expecting to meet what you mentioned based on the seeding activities, which I mentioned that we have done in recent quarters. So we have a good lineup of the products, which we have recently launched plus new products in pipeline and the benefits from the joint ventures. So yes, so that looks more than achievable, I would say.

And those will be the growth drivers, nothing like -- nothing else other than that, right?

Sorry.

Whatever growth drivers that you mentioned, nothing...

So far, yes. So far, these are the growth drivers, yes.

And just confirming, JV production will start in July '25, right?

Yes. So Mitsubishi, yes. The commercial production is going to start from July '25.

Okay. Can the numbers can you see from Q2 FY '26?

Yes. So we should start getting benefit of the Mitsubishi's JV from the second quarter.

Next question is from the line of [indiscernible] individual Investor.

I think the results have been slightly muted and slight negative growth since last quarter sir. Do you think the general retail scenario has been slightly dragged, is my question number one, sir. Number two is, you put out a very important statistic saying that India is about 10% of the per capita world consumption. So how -- your thoughts on this? And how does it vary between the developed countries and the developing countries, sir?

So [ Zakir bhai ], first of all, sorry to disappoint you with the numbers, the revenues. But the dip is really not very, I mean, it's not that we are really worried about that. Of course, we are not happy about this dip, and which could also be due to some stock adjustments at the secondary level. But yes, so I would not really assign it to a general retail sentiment. I think we have -- there is a good potential of writing instruments and stationery. So yes, it's just that we've had some bad over that's about it. So far, the per capita consumption I mentioned, globally, the stationery consumption is -- the average stationery consumption is worth $3 in India whereas the global consumption is about $26 per capita consumption. And it is as high as $100 per capita in developed countries like the U.S. or Europe. So that's my -- that was what I...

And if I may add another small thing, sir. I think 3, 4 quarters back, we were looking at expanding through the non-stationery outlet because we have a large footprint in terms of retail. I think this is a very important statement you gave about cost of reaching. So your thoughts on this point, sir?

So [ Zakir Bhai ], we are -- see, -- as I have clarified in the past -- in the previous calls that we reached up to 250,000 outlets, out of which about almost 150,000 outlets were non-stationery outlets. And we made a first sale to them. But the value of each transaction was very low, and our distributors were not really very eager to service those outlets. And so they -- over the period, they became inactive. So we realized that, yes, we should not blindly keep on increasing the number of outlets, which are not being serviced after -- once they are enrolled. But even though the cost is high, cost of reach is high for such outlets, but we are talking to our distributors on a regular basis that gradually we can make those outlets active because the number is still very large. So we don't want to really ignore those outlets, but we are trying to find ways how we can service those outlets, keeping our costs low. So that's the strategy.

Best wishes for the company.

Next question is from line of Rakesh from Nine Rivers Capital.

Am I audible?

Yes, yes. Sure.

Sir, first question with respect to our gross margin. When I look at our gross -- when I look at the average realization journey of Linc Pen, it has grown very well, be it Pentonic and non-Pentonic and has grown to INR 6 per unit. But gross margin is not improving. And when I look at other players in the industry, they are doing higher gross margin and their realization are also around us like INR 5.7, INR 5.8. Any reason for that?

So if you compare to our peers, definitely, the gross margin, we still have room in increasing our gross margins. But one significant difference is that the peers which you are mentioning, it's mostly their in-house production. Whereas in our case, it is kind of a 50%-50% model. So 50% of our production is in-house while 50% is outsourced. So there would be some -- you can understand some difference between their margins and our margins.

That is the only reason or there are other reasons also with respect to the -- like the ink also or the tip of the pin, everything is manufactured, other peers everything manufactured in-house? Can that be the reason?

So not all our peers are producing the tips in-house. So some of them are producing. And so -- and there is not much delta in the tip production versus outsourcing. So yes, there would be some difference, but not very significant. And ink in generally, ink is outsourced by all the pen companies.

Okay. Okay. And sir, second question with respect to the others, like you have mentioned in the opening remarks that we have also realized that pen segment -- to grow at higher rate, we have to go into other adjacent categories like stationery, others to grow it higher because the same salesperson is going in order -- and he can buy doing more products, he can bring more sales. Sir, I just want to know what we are doing in that segment to increase our product portfolio or the sales. Currently, what is the share of other products in the total sales and what we are doing with this other segment?

So currently, the contribution of non-pen would be less than 10% -- so which is quite lopsided, I would say, towards the core category. So I think ideally, we are looking at least in the medium term, 70%-30% kind of a ratio. So we are -- there are several products under development. As I mentioned in my opening remarks that we have recently launched a Linc calculator. So that is something -- and apart from that, of course, there are several other... [Technical Difficulty]

Rakesh kindly proceed.

Sir was answering the call. Mr. Jalan was answering.

Yes, yes. Right. Yes. So as I mentioned that, yes, of course, we are looking at several product categories in the adjacent space and Linc calculators is one of them. And even in the writing instruments, we were not present in some of the subcategories like the markers and mechanical pencil, which we have either going to launch very soon or some of them have already been launched. So ideally, we like to have the contribution to increase from less than 10% to 30% from the non-pen category.

Okay. And sir, what will be the margin profile in these products like non-structuring? It will be equivalent to pen margins or it will be lesser or higher?

Honestly, it will be a little lower because these non-stationery -- non-pen categories are mostly outsourced.

Okay. Sir, if you allow me, I have one more question. Can I go ahead?

Yes, yes, please do. Please do.

Sir, recently, we have found -- we have witnessed in the market in the channel that other players have entered into the market, which went into non-pen category earlier and they have entered into a lesser price range also like a INR 5 price, which was not prevalent after COVID, but during -- after COVID has come back. And other players which are not listed have also come into a INR 5 pen range and the competition has intensified. Your thoughts on that?

Actually, you see after we launched Pentonic, the industry actually moved towards the INR 10 and above pens. But as you rightly mentioned that some of our peers, they have -- they found the below INR 10 price segment as low-hanging fruit. So they went into that price segment quite aggressively even though the segment is less profitable. So while our endeavor is to develop products which are more value-added, we have definitely refocused on the legacy products under Linc brand, which are mostly below INR 10 price point. And we are reviewing our portfolio of the below INR 10 price point without any new investments and trying to reintroduce some of them, which are profitable for us.

So just to clarify the point, we are -- with respect to the Linc and brand, we are working on the INR 5 price point, correct understanding? Is that understanding correct?

Yes, yes, yes. Right. Right. Absolutely. So we have actually the three new products, three products, which we had in the past, not really -- we had actually discontinued, but we did some cost engineering and then reintroduced three products at that price point without any new investment.

Okay. Okay. And sir, currently, what is the share of the...

[Operator Instructions] Next question is from the line of Himanshu Upadhyay from BugleRock PMS.

Am I audible?

Yes, yes.

Yes. So this question was related to trying to expand beyond the pen's category, okay? So we started experimenting with Deli products also, okay, bringing them from China and trying to sell. What were our learnings from that whole exercise? And how are we fine-tuning the basket of products we want to bring with the Deli brand and focus to sell in the country? Because Linc calculators, there were initially Deli calculators also we were trying to sell. So some thoughts on what type of category...

So Himanshu. Yes, yes. Yes, definitely a pertinent point. So Deli, for example, Deli calculators, we are pitching against Casio. So Casio is the #1 brand in calculators, as you know. And we are pitching Deli calculators against Casio, so which means that they are slightly on the price range of Casio. While Linc calculators, we are targeting the lower segment, which could not be targeted by Deli brand. So these Linc calculators, which are produced in India, are targeted at lower-end brands like Orpat or Oreva. So it's just like Linc and Uniball or Pentonic and Uniball. Like Uniball is at the higher price point, while Linc and Pentonic, they are in the mass price segment. Similarly, Linc calculators are at the mass price segment, while Deli is at the higher price point.

And also, what were our learnings from that Deli exercise. And how do you find the basket of products...

Sorry. So we continue to distribute Deli, and they have a huge portfolio. And so there is a learning -- we are learning quite diverse categories within the stationery. And so some of the popular products, as I've mentioned in the past, that calculators is one of them, then there are scissors, then there are some desk items and there are glue sticks and so on. There is a large category. So yes, we are still trying to expand our distribution of Deli products. And more particularly, we are getting good feedback in the e-commerce for Deli products because we are able to list Deli products in the e-com and able to present our range to our potential customers.

And one more question on this only. Any specific view on stapler as a category of products. Because the market leader has a dominant position and nobody is there in besides that leader in that particular category?

Yes, yes, even yesterday, last evening, we were discussing about this category. And as you rightly mentioned, there is only one manufacturer in India who has kind of a monopoly. So definitely, it would not be easy for any -- at least for Linc to really get into that category in the immediate future. And so we are -- frankly, we are not looking at that right now. I don't know what our other -- what our peers are thinking about that.

Sir, so the question was with regard to Deli product's profile, do they have that category? And can we bring and sell it in India, like many of the categories that we are fighting with Deli, there are a large number of players and highly intense competition is there. That was the question, what was that?

Yes. We have staplers in Deli brand and we have -- we are distributing also. But definitely, the volumes are much, much smaller than the leading brand. So that's why I didn't really mention about staplers, but you are absolutely right that there is a potential in this category, and we believe that we would be able to leverage that through our e-com business because in the general trade, it's really very competitive. So definitely, after importing, the price is not as competitive as the leading brand here. But we have some products which are more value-added, and we are getting some traction in the staplers also. But I'm sure it will take some time to really build on that category.

I have few queries I will join back in queue.

Next question is from the line of Saurabh Shroff from QRC Investment Advisors.

I had two questions I wanted to ask. One is related to the volumes. I've seen that the volumes have fallen from Q2 to Q3 by almost 5% and especially a 30% drop in Linc. But at the same time, the realizations of Linc's pens have gone up from INR 4.4 to INR 6.5. So what is the reason behind that? And what is driving the realizations to grow so much and the volumes to fall?

So the volumes, the fall -- the reason of falling volume in Linc segment is mainly some of our legacy products, which we've been selling for the last more than 20 years. So there is some, like you can call it like the maturity of the life cycle maturity. So that is the reason of fall in the Linc segment. But nevertheless, as I mentioned that we've recently launched three new products or three products we have relaunched in Linc in the price segment of INR 5 to INR 6. So we are likely to make up that loss in the Linc segment. And the reason of improved ASPs also because of higher exports. So the contribution of exports has increased. And as you know that our average selling price as well as margins in exports are better than the domestic.

So how much better are the realizations in exports than in the domestic sector?

In the range of 5% to 10% that's the...

And another question is, so the Pentonic realization is now -- the average realization for the last 9 months is lesser than the company average realization. So does that mean that the Linc realizations will eventually come down? Or will Pentonic be in the similar range to the average company realization?

So the Pentonic average realization should increase because as I mentioned in my opening remarks that we've launched several new products in Pentonic portfolio at price range of INR 20, INR 30, INR 40. And they are taking a little longer time to get the desired traction. So we are heading for a better realization going forward in the Pentonic portfolio.

Next question is from the line of Jaspreet Arora from Equentis PMS.

I wanted to check on the volume growth that overall we have done for the quarter, which is 3Q on a Y-o-Y basis and for 9 months?

Just a minute. Just let me have the volumes.

I see absolute volume of INR 1,367 lakhs, but the Y-o-Y number is not there?

Y-o-Y number is not there?

You're talking of the quarter or the...

Both for the quarter, which is the third quarter and 9 months on a Y-o-Y basis?

Yes, yes.

INR 5,237 lakhs versus INR 5,216 lakhs.

9 months.

Okay. And the third quarter last year?

Yes, third quarter last year was INR 1,737 lakhs.

INR 1,737 lakhs.

Okay. Okay. So maybe that was a question that was being asked earlier. So we have dropped from INR 1,737 to INR 1,367?

Yes, right. Yes.

That's like a steep fall. What -- you mentioned -- I think you mentioned some reasons attached to this, but is this the reason attributed for such a steep fall? You had to withdraw products, I think, is that what I heard?

No, it's not withdrawal. It's just that, as I mentioned, that some of the legacy products, there the life cycle maturity reason. So that was the main reason. And of course, some stock adjustments at the secondary level could be the other reason. So these are the main reasons. And as I mentioned that in this coming quarter, we are likely to neutralize this degrowth because we have introduced some products in the INR 5, INR 6, reintroduced some products in Linc portfolio.

Understood. Got it. And just to understand this -- the three brands. So you have mentioned the INR 6 plus as the average gross realization. How does it stack up across the three brands, Linc, Uniball and Pentonic, the same INR 6?

Uni-ball will be around INR 40.

Sorry, can you come closer to the speaker.

Uni-ball will be around INR 40. Linc would be INR 4.6 for the 9 months and Pentonic would be INR 6.

Okay. Okay. And Uniball is obviously the -- which is less than -- the volume-wise, it's the lowest, but bulk of and the other two are the highest. So Linc is the highest and which is at INR 4.6, followed by Pentonic.

Yes.

That's how the -- I was just -- so one question was around this -- the growth beyond pens, and I think you covered it by saying you're trying to look at a lot of other product categories within the stationery market. But broadly, within pens, I mean, just would it be right to say that new product introductions and price and the inflation and all of that would be the real growth drivers because it seems like this industry doesn't have any volume growth left at the industry level. So maybe a little bit of market share gains, if at all. But per se, the pens market doesn't seem to be growing. In fact, even what's your sense in the last -- my sense is whatever will happen in the last 3 years -- sorry, the next 3 years, we'll have to keep in mind what has happened in the last 3 years because the next years cannot be radically different from what has happened in the last 3 years. So just your sense on the industry growth outlook of pens over the next 3 years?

So well, of course, the market estimates are that the category growth is -- of course, it is slightly stunted, but it is still more than 5%, so it could be around 5% to 6%. But definitely, the growth will come mainly from the premiumization. And of course, we are also looking at gaining market share from the competition. So yes, in the domestic market, yes, so these are the growth drivers we are looking at.

[Operator Instructions] Next follow-up question is from the line of Rushabh Shah from BugleRock PMS.

Sir...[Technical Difficulty]

Sir, the line for the participant dropped, we move on to the next question. Next question is from the line of Priyankar Sarkar from Square 64 Capital.

Sir, a quick question, again, pertaining back to the INR 5 price point by competition. So do you think this is temporary in nature that the competitors are undercutting price?

Well, I don't like to make a remark on that. So it may be temporary for a not very long period, but it can be temporary for a medium term because we feel that the INR 5 price segment is a shrinking segment. So -- and that's the reason that we -- our focus was more on the INR 10 and above price segment. So as I mentioned that, yes, since for the new entrant, it is a low-hanging fruit. So yes, in a way, you can say that. But we are still -- as I mentioned that we have -- we are reviewing our INR 5, INR 6 portfolio so that we can counter this competition.

Got it. So the other follow-up question is the new areas where we are entering, are we cutting -- undercutting price in the competition -- in the areas where the other competitors are present. For example, a calculator, are we underpricing in order to gain market share over there?

Not really, not really. So we are keeping our decent margins. And so we are not really much on the price cutting. But maybe in some categories, temporarily, we may have to -- have some aggressive pricing or promotion.

Okay. Sir, last question from my end. For our non-pen category, are we reaching all the outlets that the pen category is present in -- or large part of it rather?

Yes, yes, yes. So the same salesman is carrying those non-pen categories. And so we are pitching to all the outlets which we are reaching. But honestly, it takes time to introduce a new product, which is a non-pen. So it's taking a little longer time, but yes, so -- but we have to leverage the same outlets and the same network.

So sir, as of now, what would be the ratio? How much has the non-pen reached out of the entire network? Any ballpark figure?

I think about what 15,000 to 20,000 outlets.

Okay. So ample room for there to grow.

Yes, yes.

[Operator Instructions] Next follow-up question is from line of Rushabh Shah from BugleRock PMS.

Sir, we entered INR 30 and INR 40 price points. So how large is the market at these price points? Can these be 5 million pieces yearly sales type of price points for us?

I can't get your second part of it but...

I'll repeat the question. We entered INR 30 and INR 40 price points -- how large is the market at these price points? And can these be 5 million pieces yearly sales of price points for us?

For us, so it's not difficult to reach 5 million annual volume. I mean, it's within our projections. But so far, INR 30 to INR 40 price points currently is not very big. But as I've mentioned even in our previous calls that there is a trend of premiumization. So Pentonic like helped increase the price point from INR 5 to INR 10 and similarly, we are now trying to upgrade our customers from INR 10 to INR 20 or INR 10 to INR 30. So that is the endeavor. And we have observed that if the same customer who has come to buy a INR 5 or INR 10 pen and if he is presented with a INR 30 or INR 40 pen, if he likes, he does not hesitate to buy that product. So we need to expand this price point, and that is our endeavor.

Okay. Sir, my next question is the main thing in our business is distribution. So what are we doing on those lines to make it better and penetrate into more Tier 2, Tier 3 cities?

So see, our presence is actually all over and the best way to increase distribution is appoint new distributors and reach more outlets. So that is an ongoing process, and we continue to increase the number of stockists and number of retailers. So that is an ongoing process.

Just a small follow-up on this one. How many have you added in the past 2 to 3 years?

So just to refresh in case you didn't hear my last conversation. So we -- in the last 3 years -- rather last 4 years, we reached a level of about 250,000 outlets, including the non-stationery outlets. But as I explained that out of which about 150,000 outlets were non-stationery outlets, which were -- the transaction value was very small. So those outlets became inactive over the period because the distributors were not very keen to supply to those outlets because of the low transaction value. So currently, we are -- the active outlets are about 100,000 outlets. And so as such, there has been no increase, if you say, lately. It's just that we are trying to make these 250,000 outlets, which are enrolled, trying to make some of them active like every month. So that is the process we are going on.

Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for the afternoon. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Jalan for closing remarks.

Yes. Thank you. And I will ask Mr. Sancheti to make a closing remarks.

Thanks a lot, everybody. Really appreciate your time this afternoon and really appreciate the participation. Thanks from the management side. Have a good day. Thank you.

Thank you very much. On behalf of SKP Securities Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, ladies and gentlemen, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.

Thank you. Bye-bye.

Thank you, sir.