Live Nation Entertainment, Inc. (LYV) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

It's Peter Henderson. I work with Cisco, I've worked with them for the past 15 years in the media and cable side. This morning, we launched coverage of Live Nation. And we're very excited to have Joe Berchtold, President and CFO from live here today with us. Joe, thank you very much for joining us.

Thanks for having me. 15 years with Jessica, I should be interviewing you.

So it's been a good run. It's been a good run. So a lot of topics to discuss, but I'd like to start with sort of very high level, big picture. The Live Entertainment industry has experienced tremendous growth over the last really several decades. You've talked about the industry growing at an 8% to 10% annual rate in the future. What are some of the key structural tailwinds that will drive the next leg of growth over the next 5 to 7 years?

Well, I think the first is, I think you have this continuing trend of consumer spend away from goods towards experience. That's been going on for 20 years. COVID's disrupted it and then supply chain and inflation around consumer goods has disrupted it. But I think any survey you do, any conversations with people in their 20s and 30s that you have that as a clear structural tailwind. And then the other, which is truly the driver is the globalization. . The globalization then ties into what I'll call it kind of the economic business model, right? So you've got on the demand side, you have a globalization, which is a shift from the record companies as the determinants of distribution to then the global distribution with the Spotifys, Apple Musics, the streaming platforms to make sure content is delivered everywhere simultaneously globally. Then you have, I think -- and that drove a lot, call it, from 2005 to 2019. I think then the further acceleration you've seen over the past 5 or 6 years is then really the social platforms as a point of discovery. So now they're able to discover the artist on Tiktok, Instagram, the social media platforms, and then they can consume them music. And that's just given -- I think that's given another leg of acceleration in terms of that global growth. And then on the supply side, you have the shift of economics where the artists used to make their money on record sales and now they're making it on the road. So they're seeing the global opportunity, they're touring longers in more markets, which is another point then of driving the growth. In our mind, it really is -- it's a supply-driven market. The latent demand is there for the reasons I talked about. You have 7 million potential fans. So you just need a small portion of them to show up at some concerts. And when the artists go out, we're seeing they're continuing to show up.

That's great. So I think there's been some concern around sort of consumer weakness, et cetera. But at this moment, it appears that Live and [dense] are not experiencing any slowdown in supply or demand. So as you look out over the next couple of years, are you more concerned about the demand or the supply side for live music and live entertainment.

I'm really concerned about either. I think on the demand side -- maybe I'm making up a new metric, I haven't quantified it yet, but it's sort of the memorability to value ratio. So we have a business where 2/3 of our tickets are under $100, 1/3 of them are under $50. The high price ones will get some press. But the vast majority are very affordable. And if you think about a typical fan goes to 1 or 2 concerts a year. If you think about that event, how memorable it is, those are the things you're still talking about with your friends a couple of months later, remember that night, that person got drunk. Remember, we did this had a great time, lost my voice screaming. You don't -- you spend or you can spend if you want to, the same amount on that as going out to dinner on another Friday night with your wife. So -- but it's just much more memorable. So we just haven't seen the fans show an interest in cutting back there if they're going to be cutting back. And I think that's fundamental to live music, even more so than other forms of live entertainment because live music, you're engaged in. It's as much as social outing as it is an outing to see the artist. And you're not passively sitting in your chair, watching it. You are active. You're on your feet, you're dancing, you're singing, you're drinking with your buddies. So it's just a much more engaged level than you have with most other forms of entertainment. So -- and that's consistent, again, consistent globally Keep reminding ourselves is we live in the U.S., where we tend to be -- so U.S. centric. It's a big global world out there and behavior is the same or more so. And then on the supply side, what we see is the artists that have been touring are continuing to tour. But every year for these reasons we talked about because of the distribution, because of the social media platforms, you're adding more artists into the mix. So you have more people touring. So I was looking at some data the other day in 2015, we had about 90 artists that we sold over 100,000 tickets for. And 100,000, those are people that would be in some amps, some larger midsized but good-sized acts. So that number by 2019 had grown to about 150, 155. So this year, we expect that number to be about 250. So again, you've got a top number that are selling over 500,000. Yes, that's continuing to grow some, particularly as you see continued growth in the stadium volume, but it's that 100,000-plus that's really telling you the robustness of the supply that's continuing to grow on a global basis.

Great. So pretty clear, then the demand for live entertainment and events remains strong at this point. Where would you expect to see signs of a slowdown? And are you seeing any moderation for instance, in secondary ticket market pricing?

Yes. I mean as much as I say, structurally, I'm not worried, believe me, we're paranoid every day where we examine every when a tour goes on sale, how is it selling? How is it selling at every price point top to bottom? Is it still selling front to back, which is what traditionally a show would sell what's happening in the trough? Are you continuing to see the normal flow-through, are shows closing well, what's happening on site. So we're looking at all of those metrics on an ongoing basis. I gave some of them at earnings, I think, on all these points that we continue to monitor. We're not seeing issues. And so we'll just kind of continue on that path.

That's right. So let's talk about fan growth just a little bit. I mean Live Nation has grown attendance at a roughly 8% CAGR over the last decade. So how do you continue to maintain that strong momentum? And then also like what initiatives do you have in place to expand the fan base beyond the traditional concert goer into the more casual?

This is again where it's great. We talked about the tailwinds of the business. When you have the structural tailwinds of globalization and fan spend on experiences and then you have the ability to globalize. It's nice when the world spots you a mid- to high single-digit growth before you even have to do the things you need to do to continue to drive double-digit AOI growth over time. So -- but what do we need to do? Again, it goes back to globalization. We need to really continue to develop Latin America. We need to develop Asia. To a much greater extent, Europe, I think, has a good ways to go in terms of the hyper localization that we've been focused on for almost a decade now in the U.S. I think it also ties in when you look out over time, it ties into our venue strategy as well, particularly internationally where we know we have the latent demand. We've seen that we can bring the supply. There are some cities, if you looked at your top 100 cities globally, where you'd say that infrastructure is not optimal. That or they don't have an arena. The arena is too small. The arena is 50, 60 years old, needs refurbishment. It doesn't have premium, doesn't have a hospitality that's going to let you gross in the same way that you can gross in other markets. So over the next 5 to 7 years, I think an important part of our growth strategy will be continuing to add and enhance that international arena portfolio. And I use it broadly. In some cases, South America, we're seeing great opportunities for a sole type model or GMP now, sorry, that we have in Mexico City, where it's a bit of an amphitheater meets a stadium. I think we've learned a lot from the Adele World Experience. That was a raging success. Can you take some of those sort of temporary, semipermanent open venues and do more with that? So we'll look at different ways, but that is the additional benefit of our venue strategy is, it's a great strategy to make money in and of itself. It's also a great way that we can help continue to drive that fan growth globally. In terms of getting the fans, I think we're in a different spot we used the example before Bad Bunny who's been one of our top trending artists over the past few years. If you look at his social following -- his streaming following has about 150 million fans. And his last tour, which was a massive tour, you only need about 3 million fans to go to the show. So we only need a 2% penetration rate. So we don't really have that issue of saying, no, I need to get that casual fan to show up. Most -- it's a minority of people to go to shows. Those who go to shows tend to go to 1 or 2. I think if we can show up in the market with an artist they like with a good value proposition with the tickets, we do a good job of marketing the show. I think that -- I think that part of the equation isn't an impediment of any level.

That's great. So let's just touch upon that international growth aspect a little bit more. How do you prioritize between entering or further developing new markets versus expanding in existing ones? And maybe you could just touch upon also how it impacts the economics of your business as you expand internationally.

Well, we're decentralized. So we don't think about it in terms of making a trade-off between am I doing in Latin America, am I doing Asia. We have a team that's very focused, few teams focused on the U.S. We have a festival team in the U.S. We have a promotion team. Internationally, we have a Latin America team with presence now in all the major markets, Europe. We have a U.K. team. We have a Europe team. We have an Australia, New Zealand team. We have an Asia team. So each of those teams has their own business development resources that are tied into some global folks to make sure we have consistency of standards and thoughtfulness in terms of how we approach the different deals. So every one of those teams has a mandate that is on a market-specific basis, a country-specific basis in many instances, what it is that we're trying to build. So we're not making trade-offs. We're not concerned. I think as we've demonstrated now to our investor base over the past few years that we are getting quality returns when we make those CapEx investments or we make those M&A decisions that we're -- we now have, I think, the support of our investors to say, yes, if there's opportunities, go get them. If there's more opportunities, that's great, continue to go after them. So we don't see, right now, really either from a resource or from a capital standpoint, constraints in building out that business. In terms of the economics, the real difference in the economics is not North America versus international, it's -- well, is this person in one of our venues where I get the beer money, the parking money, the service fee or not. That's the driver of the economics. And then obviously, festivals are different economics. North America economics are good in totality because we have a lot of people going to amphitheater shows here. We don't have that internationally. So we have a higher SKU of fans going to shows in our venues in the U.S. But that's -- it's not because it's the U.S. It's because this is where we have our amphitheater. We'll do just as well with the GMP in Mexico City or just as well with some arenas that we have in Europe.

So this year has been a strong year for amphs. And I think 2025 is setting up to be a strong stadium year. Can you just sort of discuss the pipeline and mix for live events in 2025 as well as the financial implications of stadium events representing a larger portion of overall.

Yes. I think right now, '25 is shaping up to be a bit of the best of both worlds where we see very strong growth in our stadium volume, but also continued growth in our arena volume at this point. That's looking good. So that growth right now is probably a little more international than North America, but North America growing as well. But that's also just a factor that this year you saw U.S. continue to grow more than international. So as you get to normal year-to-year fluctuations, what happens in a year like this year that we've talked about a lot on our calls is that you tend to not be -- you don't have big fan growth, you don't have big revenue growth, you have AOI growth, which means you have margin expansion. So told everybody, great. This year, we're having margin expansion. Next year, we'll have, again, good fan growth. We'll have a strong revenue growth. And then we'll have a foot race on our margins between a high-priced, lower margin stadium ticket, but if you continue to build out your venue portfolio and you continue to perform well there. So -- but that, to me, is -- doesn't matter. I haven't even spent any time trying to model it because I think it's that margin question is irrelevant. What I care about is what's the cash AOI we're generating. I'm never going to turn down a stadium tour because it hurts our margin. I'm never going to tell an artist, no, you should lower your ticket price because that means we'll have less margin dilution on your show. I mean, it just -- when you stop and think about every action that we would take in order to preserve margin, it would be pretty dumb. So right now, again, I haven't even tried to model it. I'm not concerned about it. It will be a great year on every front we expect next year because of that supply coming back on the stadium side in particular.

Speaking of supply -- switching gears a little bit to your relationship with artists. So 90% of artists income at this point or 95%, some huge numbers, generated through touring. How much longer art artists are touring for and sort -- how does that impact the economics? And why do artist choose Live Nation?

I think we're proud for the whole -- the whole longevity of the current carnation of the company since 2005 and Michael being CEO, he's been very clear since day 1. We are a service business here to serve the artist. And we're going to create a business model that says we absolutely respect the fact that this is your art that you should be the one to get the value from we're a service provider. We want to take better care of you and pay you better than anybody else and our business model is built around that saying, yes, promotion is a low-margin business. And you're going to give us the ability to make some money in secondary and tertiary profit streams. But we're always going to respect and want to pay you well. When we talk about pricing, we absolutely believe they deserve the value of their show. We support them in that. We believe they deserve to control the distribution of the tickets, and we support that. So everything we do culturally is very much around when Michael started 20 years ago this is all artist first. And if we do a good job supporting them, we'll turn out fine. So that's the core of our thesis. I think they're touring more now for the reasons we've been talking about on a -- because it's a globalizing business. I looked at a few tours over the past few days that we have planned. It's hard because you need to get the repeat of the same artist to have apples-to-apples. But I think pretty typical, you'd see an artist have 20% to 50% more dates on the tours, which is really almost all international dates. Because now the conversation -- 10 years ago, the conversation was, let's talk about the U.S. tour, maybe some European dates. Now it's the, hey, let's talk the 3-year plan. What's the role of the U.S., Europe, Latin America? Do we do Asia? Where do we do festivals in there versus tours? How do we think about that cycle. So the conversations are much more extended and in particular, the international legs are a lot longer.

That's great. So you talked a little bit about your artists performing your own venues have much better economics there. You've announced plans to open 14 venues, I think globally over the remainder of '24 and through '25, up from 12 planned earlier this year. How do you evaluate those potential opportunities for both strategic fit as well as for financial returns. And also, if you can just touch upon the typical return profile of those projects?

Yes. So tying back to part of what we talked about before, our focus on venue is really on market expansion because that's where we get the double win of attractive venue economics and also feeding the overall strategy of continuing to build our fan base. So we're not looking at, hey, how do we go put, in an arena somewhere to compete with the arena that exists. That's not -- we've talked a lot over the years about Austin being a prime example of that. There was no great amphitheater arena in Austin. So we built it. We've -- we're building an amphitheater in Richmond, Virginia. There is no amphitheater. There's nothing of that capacity. We're going to expand the marketplace doing that. So from a strategic standpoint, what I would say is -- the focus is how do we expand the market. When we talk about arenas in Europe, whether we're going to build them or buy them, we're looking at where is really -- where is the void in that top market in terms of the -- having a building that has the ability to deliver grosses that are going to be attracted to a artists to want to come and perform in those buildings. So that's the strategic intent. Financially, we've talked -- we generally have a threshold of at least 20% for these investments in major refurbishments or in new buildings. I think we are a relatively natural owner of the buildings in the sense relative to a financial player. I think we're a pretty good operator. I don't know if we're that much better of an operator than somebody else that would get hired. But we're -- I think we're as good as anybody else. And then I think where we differentiate is, it goes back to the marketing expansion point is we have the ability to help drive utilization, which if you have a couple of levers at the end of the day, when you build a building, it's what am I getting when people show up and how many people are showing up. So the utilization is critical. So when we talk about building an amphitheater in Richmond, somebody just building it and saying, if I build it, will they come it's going to have more uncertainty, different risk profile as opposed to us saying, no, we know we can build it because we know how shows get routed. We know that there's a demand. We know that they're going to be able to be shows there. We're the same over in Europe. If we have -- if we're adding arenas, the artists are going to be attracted to the arenas that can gross the most. We know how they route. We know the sequencing. We can have a much greater degree of confidence and expectations of utilization that are probably different than what somebody else might have.

So and how do you think about sort of investing in that next dollar and the trade-offs as you contemplate between buying, I think building which you talked about a lot and then partnering as well?

Yes. I think it's situational -- again, you're not -- when you're talking about Europe and arenas, you're not walking into a city and going, "Oh, I got 3 options. I got a guy who has 1 wanting to sell. I got 3 pieces of open land. I can trade off each other. You're going In. And you're usually dealing with the hand that you're dealt. So in some cases, you might have either a municipal owned or some investor-owned building that's old, hasn't been invested in 40, 50 years. So that might be a purchase opportunity. If you're going to build, you generally need strong municipal support because these things have all sorts of codes and entitlements and issues so you need to make sure you have a market that wants that and embraces that. Internationally, I think we probably we do partner some with Oakview and with others because they bring us more capacity. It would be the simple way I would think about it. [Tim's] a world-class at development, spends his life on the plane goes around, brings us opportunities we wouldn't have otherwise had. We're happy to partner with them. We're happy to partner with others in situations where they can bring that sort of new opportunity that we wouldn't have otherwise had ourselves. So I don't think of it as a capital allocation question so much as it's just what's the opportunity that exists in that market. So I'd rather look at it as here's the 100 markets that matter in the world. And what are the opportunities in each one of those? And how do we pursue them?

Okay. So maybe if you could just dig a little bit more into sort of what the Venue Nation strategy contributes towards margin expansion, particularly in terms of reducing costs or increasing your ancillary revenue stream like VIP experiences, et cetera.

Yes. It's really -- it's about driving high-margin spend by fans that we're capturing is really the strategy on the venue side. If we look at our amphitheaters, historically, it was mid-single digit, any sort of premium experience, our target now, and we're developing a new one is 30%. Give a lot more of that differentiated experience for people that want to show up. And continue to enhance the overall general experience, what we're doing with bars, what we're doing with bathrooms, what we're doing with the overall setting and then figuring out what are the whole range of use cases that people have when they come to a show. It's different when you go with your buddies versus your wife, versus your daughter. So thinking about what are some of those use cases? And how do we just give fans the opportunity to spend the money they want to spend. And a lot of that becomes about eliminating friction. And I don't think we're doing anything necessarily new and groundbreaking if you look at what arenas are doing today, go in, you take a lot of their ideas. They're doing the exact same thing.

Okay. And so what are some of the ways that you're improving those fan experiences and how does that impact the economics of your business?

I think it starts from -- when you show up. You have different levels of parking now generally in all of our amphitheaters. If you want to do a GA parking, you got to walk for a while, that's okay. If you want VIP parking, if you want valet parking, if you want platinum parking. So again, it's a matter of you segment the market. You charge what the market is going to bear. When you go in, do you want to use -- do you want a very nice VIP club where you can sit down and have dinner, air condition you want just a mid-level club where it maybe has a separate bar, no lines for the bathrooms, calmer setting with a little bit of shade. You want to sit in the [indiscernible] box? Do you want to sit in a rock box for 20 people? Do you want to be in the pit? Do you want to be in the VIP area in the pit? Do you want to be in the lawn? So, It's all about that segmentation and just making sure you're creating the opportunities for people to make the selection themselves.

Spend that money that they want to spend. So in what ways are you looking to sort of expand the relationship with just artists and fans and the live entertainment ecosystem more broadly and then as part of that, sort of how far along do you believe you are in monetizing these direct relationships.

Yes. I think there is a lot about what's the relationship with the fan? How do we help the artists build their relationship with a fan. I think as you look at the era of digital ticketing, if you look at artists wanting to really be brand managers themselves, they always have been. Now they've got the ability to get some of that direct-to-consumer interaction. So we do a lot of work with artists on where you have sign-ups of various forms for the tours, so they can start to have that data and start to build that direct relationship. We find that when we have that direct digital relationship with fans, we have -- it's much more effective in terms of our ability to communicate with them after the purchase. Are they interested in that VIP parking? Are they interested in a club? What's the opportunity to upsell? And similarly, we can work with brands who can deliver value to the fans for their experience. And what we find is that fans are very receptive to communication interaction that we have with them if it's about enhancing their concert experience. If you're just peppering them with ads, that doesn't work. But if you're doing something that's actually going to make the experience better for them. You're a Hilton Honors member, you have free entrance to the VIP Club or you're a T-Mobile customer, you get a free launch. Those things are always going to be welcome valuable for the brands and their relationship valuable for the fans. But I'd say we're also still pretty early on in terms of the level of sophistication of doing that and then also post purchase figuring out and having enough data, how do we really continue to build that lifetime relationship with a fan. I think we're still pretty early stages of that. A lot of that gets disrupted by COVID and now you're rebuilding the data I have on you because you go to 1 or 2 shows a year, I need to build that profile out.

Interesting. So let's talk a little bit about ticketing. So what are some of the learnings from the major tours that you've taken over the past year? And how do you connect with your customers through ticketing?

Yes. I mean, again, we see on an ongoing basis, just how in-demand tickets are. So I think if you think about the generations of Ticketmaster, for 40 years, Ticketmaster was truly focused on venues, and they weren't that concerned and then by implication, sports teams because most of the venues in the U.S. are owned by the sports teams. They weren't really bothered about the consumer. They weren't really bothered even about the promoter. So if you then look next generation over the past 15 years since we bought Ticketmaster, there's been a tremendous focus on making Ticketmaster a great platform to sell concert tickets, which people forget, but it wasn't 15 years ago. And if you look at it in comparison today, absolutely would stack it up with anybody in terms of what it can do to sell tickets. And you look at the innovations that we've had at Ticketmaster the digital tickets, the verified fan, face value exchanges, just the capacity reinforcement to stop bots to handle the volume of major on sales, all of those -- Ticketmaster is absolutely world class in. And that's been a very important investment, and critical to our Live Nation promotion side who's taking $12 billion of risk underwriting the promotion of shows. They need to know that if I'm going to do that, maybe i'll sell the tickets, cover my risk and make some money. So I feel very good about the progress that Ticketmaster has made over that period being a great platform for selling tickets of all sorts. Now that I think we've seen over the couple -- last couple of years is Ticketmaster just has to now get better on the consumer side. It has to get better in terms of really thinking through it's not enough just to say, yes, I made the venue happy and they took a whole bunch of service fee money and made the promoter happy and their tickets got sold, what is it we need to do on the consumer side to continue to make that a better experience. I think a lot of that has to do with better transparency. We moved all of our venues in the U.S. to all in pricing. We've been advocating for all in pricing. I think there are some other enforcement on bots issues that haven't been done, some other things around banning spec tickets, as I said earlier, we're very strong supporters of giving artists more control or rather tickets are distributed and ultimately resold. But really underlying all of that is better communication, better transparency, how do we let the fan know what to expect, what's going on? I'd love to make the front row a mile wide and have it cost $39, that's not reality. So I get that at times Ticketmaster will inherently bear the criticism when 10 million people want to buy 1 million tickets. And so 90% of the people are going to be inherently unhappy. That is the nature of the industry that we're in, but we can absolutely do a better job around some of the pieces to set up the expectations in terms of what fans should be seeing.

Sure, sure. So no question, there's been a lot of progress and many improvements Ticketmaster. But we just touch upon sort of the DOJ and Ticketmaster from briefly. Maybe you can just provide a little background of your viewpoint of the issue and why you originally acquired Ticketmaster and how it's been integrated into broader company? And then also just give us an update on the process, the timing, any impact to your business until the case is resolved.

Yes. If you dial it back, why did we make the acquisition 15 years ago? Number one was Live Nation was a B2B business, learned to be B2C. Back then, you didn't have the digital sophistication to where you could get that data without being the actual platform. And so that was a major driver. We just saw B2B companies are going to get squeezed and not have the same strategic importance as a B2C company. And then the next was what I just talked about, which is we didn't think there were any good concert ticket selling platforms out there at the time, we felt if we were in control of one that we could do a much better job, which would allow us to grow more. So we tried to semi build one on our own, that didn't work out, ultimately, led to the Ticketmaster acquisition and the progress that we've made over the past 15 years.

So -- and how important is it to Live Nation that Ticketmaster remain part of the company?

Look, I think it's a nice complement. We believe that we have gives us the ability to earn more money on the risk that we take in putting it on the concert, which we think is reasonable. I talked earlier about decentralization. We run the businesses very separately. There's -- the concert people are told and incented, drive your concert business. The Ticketmaster people are paid, incented, strategically pushed, just build your business, don't worry about the two. So I'm not in any rush to separate them, but I do think that if you look at what Ticketmaster is now, it's an enterprise ERP system with strong growth, strong margins very sticky installed base. It doesn't get compared that way all the time. The concert promotion business has more others that you can compare to. But I think they're both great businesses. They would be great businesses. I'm not looking to force them to be separate, but I also know strategically with confidence that the right thing for us to focus on now is continue to build both of them. I expect we're going to prevail. I don't expect we're going to have major changes to how we operate through the process we have to go through with the DOJ. But I can't, ultimately, control some of the politics. So we'll just continue to build our -- to build each of the businesses to best we can. We're in process now. We're going through motions back and forth with the DOJ. I think next year is a period of discovery and depositions and then the trial would begin in early '26 if nothing between now and then happens that would let us come to an agreed resolution.

Yes. Okay. Switching back gears to like the lines of the business. The sponsorship has been a significant driver of revenue for Live Nation. It's been a great area of business for you guys. Can you just discuss recent trends in sponsorship and your expectations for growth in this arena?

Yes. I think we've benefited, again, it's always nice to have tailwinds in businesses. As brands are seeing that some of their traditional ad platforms aren't -- are degrading particularly on the brand side, that they're looking at us. They're looking at live experiences in general. Once we hit 100 million fans a few years ago, I think that was a bit of a tipping point where the brands were realizing, wow, this is actually now 150 million fans. This is a tremendous base that we can go and we can connect with. As I said, I think the experiential side brands are also learning what I talked about in terms of adding value. It's not a matter of putting up a 30-second ad and hoping somebody's paying attention, it's about how do I create some value for the fans. And that has real engagement, real positive reaction, positive purchase intent after a positive recollection. So it's a very high-performing ad. We're very proud. Our renewal rate is 80% plus, which when you're in an ad business, long-term contracted not just the basic CPU, that means we're delivering for those brands, and they're seeing the value out of what they've been spending. And right now, one of the great trends we have is what we've been talking about all morning, globalization. Mastercard example is a great example. We took our so-called international card partner from a handful of countries to 20 countries and they're able to act global and local, right? And so they have specific country-by-country strategies, but then they have a global umbrella. And we work with them to tailor to the local market, what they need while continuing to drive that global brand presence. So I think that's going to continue to be a good growth area.

Great. So I think this is the last question. So what are your key priorities? And what areas of your business would you like to be focused on for the next 3 to 5 years? What innovations, new technologies you most excited about the line of [indicernible].

All starts with continuing to drive that fan growth, right? We'd go from -- when we go from 150 million to 200 million fans, all the other pieces will continue to do well. Very excited about the Venue Nation side of the business and both the Venue Nation and the concert side, particularly Latin America and Asia. We really grow out those markets. Ticketmaster, the technology they're continuing to build there to make it a better fan experience, the focus on the fan experience. At the same time, figuring out how do they continue to grow their revenue stream outside the service fee. So that business continues to grow and then the sponsorship that we just talked about continuing to grow that double digits is an important part of what we'll do over the next several years.

That's great. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thank you.

Thank you.