Live Nation Entertainment, Inc. (LYV) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

All right. Great. Thanks, everyone. Let's get started with our next session for today. My name is Stephen Laszczyk. I'm the lead entertainment analyst here at Goldman Sachs. We are excited to welcome to the Communacopia and Technology Conference, Michael Rapino, the CEO of Live Nation. Michael, thank you so much for being with us today.

Thank you. Catching your breath?

Yes.

I wanted to start off high level. Michael at your Investor Day back in November, you outlined the opportunity for growth in the live music industry, the opportunity for that growth to accelerate from the 8% annualized growth that we've seen over the last 2 decades, which I felt was very impressive. It's an industry that's come from $5 billion of revenue back in 2000 to $35 billion just last year. So I'm curious if you could talk a little bit about the high-level opportunities, the secular tailwinds that you say see playing out over the next decade and really why you think growth can accelerate from here?

Thank you. Yes, when we look at the industry in general, it's -- I think it's at its best time as a great growth opportunity. If you just look at supply/demand, you look on a global basis, this demand that's been unlocked through the WiFi and the Internet and the phone now is just unlocked all of this consumer base that wasn't there. For 50 years, the music business was very controlled, record labels, MTV, radio, the gatekeeper. So the business was entirely a U.S. Western Europe business. That was it. You had 100 days. You toured 60 in America, you did 30 in Europe. That was the only place you could really make money. It was the only real control place where they sold CDs, where you could sell a ticket, where the demand was there. Napster and Internet and everything unlocks and all of a sudden, you have a 14-year-old anywhere in the world with the phone this morning that knows the next Kendrick song. So that demand was always there. It just was never marketed to. Now overnight, what we see is these incredible global consumer base of fans that want that artist. They want them to see them in Sao Paulo. They want them to come to Milan. They want them to come to -- I was on the phone yesterday talking about a Nigerian opportunity we have. And how do we bring Drake there? And how do we bring big artists. So these are these markets where the demand, probably unlike any other industry you can think of, the consumer was there, the 14-year-old was there. They just weren't ever marketed to because of the old model. In the last 5 to 10 years, that consumer now is marketed to every day on Instagram, TikTok, Spotify. So that has been the greatest kind of supercharge to the live music business in general. So you have this whole new consumer base of global consumers that were really underserviced from an enterprise perspective, venues, ticketing, all of those things in Latin America, South America, Asia that will get there and make this even a better business. And then you have the artist side, a similar story. The artists were under the gatekeeper model forever. You hope to get signed by a label. They only signed so many every year. They push those forward on MTV, the radio, the playlists, very select amount of artists would get pushed forward into the consumer base. Today, as you see that consumer can go from anywhere in the world. So you can be sitting in Mexico City, launch a song, get it on TikTok, and you can be playing in the Greek theater 6 months later. So this idea that this is global artist based now, too, no matter what country you're from, you have now this complete free distribution access point to go market. So my 14-year-old tells me what a band from India that he found out about TikTok, right? That never happened. That band in India, first of all, never got a shot. Maybe one day, they pilgrim their way to Britain and hope to get a label deal and maybe put on radio and statistically low odds. So you have this incredible moment right now where you have no other industry that probably has the supply demand unlocked on a global basis, thanks to the Internet.

That's a great overview. Maybe just thinking about how Live Nation fits into that and the opportunities ahead of yourself. You target fan growth to 200 million fans, double-digit AOI growth over the medium term. What do you see as some of the most important execution points that Live Nation needs to achieve over the next 3- to 5-year period to work towards those goals and achieve those goals?

Well, we've already started, and one of the biggest principles to Live Nation when we launched this company, me going from Toronto to New York to London to LA. My years in London, it was very clear to me. This is a global business. So we started really early, realizing that we needed to be everywhere in the world, that artist when they started to tour, if you had an office in Cape Town, if you had an office in Colombia, you were value-add. So you look in the last 10 years, we've gone from 20 to over 50 offices globally. So continue to expand on a global basis. We're always looking at Latin America, Middle East, Asia, Pacific Rim, Eastern Europe. All of those markets we're looking to launch an office in, lots of promoter, a festival venue, any one of those pieces. So part of the benefit of Live Nation is we're already in most markets that matter. Maybe we have low market share in a lot of those new markets, so we have a great opportunity to grow there. But as the water kind of rises with this global supply demand, as the market leader, our numbers will go up because our fan base will increase. And as our fan base increases, sort of our revenue and our businesses. So most of it is just being in these markets, being able to capitalize on the Latin American, the Asian, India, all of these markets that are going to grow. It's just a matter of can you get there? Can you build a venue? Can you have some infrastructure to monetize and professionalize that business?

You mentioned the artist relationship and the variety of artists that you can now tap into as part of the global platform. You spend a lot of time working with artist directly, developing their careers, developing their touring careers. Can you maybe talk a little bit more about how those conversations have evolved over your career? And really what the artist is most focused on today as it relates to the opportunity in touring for them?

Yes. The artist is -- again, over the last 10, 15 years in Live Nation, we've seen it. The center of the wheel for that artist financially has become mature. Again, for 50 years, it was get a record deal. That was the payday. We got a long-term record deal, got a big advance. And then you went on the road to sell some CDs. That's obviously changed over the last 10 years. Now as a new artist, you probably barely getting a check from the label. You're getting some distribution and marketing services. But the road is where you will make your fans long term and where you'll make most of your revenue, whether you're an up-and-coming artist or obviously a stadium act. So one, it's been a kind of a professionalization of the business. Again, the labels were long professionalized. They had always been kind of consolidated public companies for 30, 40 years, it was always about the labels on MCA versus Universal versus -- promoters were always a little wild west car salesman. So we were the first company that kind of professionalize them, brought them together, consolidated them on a global basis and have started setting some new standards. So as we saw it, the artist wanted and every day wanted a better service. They wanted someone that thought globally, a big piece of their business now. We want to sit with someone in Los Angeles and say, where do I tour next year? Should I go to Latin America or should I do more dates in America or Canada? So globalization is big. They're all consumer direct brands now. These are incredible artists. They've all got, on the low end, 10 million to 200 million, 300 million followers, they're brands now. They know where their fans are. We just recently successfully did some incredible 10 city -- 10 night run with Adele in Munich. The idea that we would sit there and say, you're not going to want on a tour, but we're going to take a bet that you're going to sell 700,000 tickets in one city. We're going to spend $100 million building this incredible temporary stadium, world's greatest stadium because it's not a football stadium, it's an end aisle with the largest video screen in history. You don't make those bets, if you don't want no fan data. So the artist knows where her fans are. Adele would know how many fans she has in Europe, how many in Munich, how many follow her, how big of a potential radius. So the artists now are much smarter around their data, they're mini corporations. They're looking for partners that understand data, understand globalization, understand pricing, monetization. I'm going to build this incredible big show that's going to -- I'm going to have 72 transport trucks on the road. I'm going to spend millions a week in production costs. We need an equal partner that understands how we're going to monetize that, 3 shows a week, how do I best price this? How do I make sure that when I get home, I didn't spend all my money on production. I covered the cost, put an incredible show on and had a return on my investment. So they're many corporations. They've got their great accountants, lawyers, business managers, product managers, the beyond safeties world there, they're mini corporations, they're brands strong, and we've just had to continually elevate our game, higher, better and better data scientists, higher, better marketing, brand people, globalization, understand the markets to them, another difference between what it's going to cost a tour in Europe versus America. So really, in the last 10 years, the game is elevated from a mom-and-pop shop to a global business, and that artist now wants much like they want a global record label that can think globally. They want a global promoter with great local and global resources to help them.

And it seems like that data and scale gives you more comfort in managing the risk and the risk profile of committing capital to an artist, new minimum guarantees are a big point of the contracts, and you're also balancing that with the ethos of wanting to pay the artist top dollar. Is it fair to say that, that competitive advantage at scale is what allows you to win that business and it could help you accrue more artist supply over the coming years?

Yes, I would say we are by far the most professionalized promoter in the business. So being able to sit down and build that global plan, local plan, whatever the artist needs are to make sure their needs are meet, understand their consumer pricing strategy, make sure that they get their return in ours, we would be, by far, the best of that.

Got it. Maybe switching gears and focusing on your concerts business this year. There's been a lot of focus on the mix shift in this -- late this year away from stadiums and towards amphitheaters. Can you maybe talk a little bit more about how that mix shift is impacting your concerts segment this year and particularly in the back half of the year? And then a higher-level question. I'm curious, longer term, should investors think about these supply shifts as normal course, something that we should come to expect? Or are there ways you think over time, perhaps create more consistency in the supply that comes to market year in and year out?

Yes. I think if we -- Google zoom out, this has been a very consistent industry. I think, as you mentioned, I don't think there's another industry you know of that has an 8%, 9% compounded growth for the last 25 years. And through recessions and else. So as I've said before, I believe in the next decade, that 8%, 9% will continue to be the beacon. This will be an industry that we should look at to have a continual global growth on an annual basis. Let's get through last 2 years and this year, let's group all that into COVID-related up and downs. We doubled our business in 2 years in 2019, 2022 and '23. You're not going to grow at 30%, 40% a year. So we had some incredible pent-up demand, and this year is the first year, we're probably feeling a little bit of the hangover effect of the huge stadium business for 2 years. So we always knew this year was going to be a little light on stadiums. But we were going to do our best then to monetize our venues, our amphitheaters, where the business walks in our door, and we can manage it. So we're very proud this year that -- we always used to hear these things like air pockets and all this stuff coming out of COVID. The fact that we grew almost 80% for 2 years. And this year, we're still going to be flat to growth, is exceptional, right? I could have convinced you all, geez, 80%, I'll go down 30% and we'll return to some number next year. The fact we were able to grow this year off that incredible comparable, we're very proud of. We look at '25 to start to be back to normalization, if you call it of this ongoing 8%, 9% annual growth for consistency. We know next year is going to be a monster stadium year. We lost a little bit in Europe this year because of the Olympics, so that affected our stadium business, probably have a little bit of '26 World Cup stadium pullback in America, but it will be somewhere else. But we look next year to be a really big stadium year. But to your bigger question, any one should look at this business just come away with this is going to be a continual 8%, 9% great growth industry. Some years up and down a little bit, but we'll be more consistent going forward now that we're through kind of the backlash of the COVID overhang. So strong growth ahead for the next decade. And anytime the industry grows, that means our business, we tend to overdeliver against the industry, but we think we'll ride that wave well.

You mentioned stadiums coming back next year. As you think down the venue profile, amphitheaters, theaters and clubs, how do you see them shaping up for '25?

Next year looks really strong. We see our -- it's still early. So you got -- most things are set in stone, but there's always things that shift. But our stadium business in '25 looks like it's bigger than '23 right now. So that's a big number. Our arena business for '24 looks bigger than it was this year, and we had a good arena year. And I think our apps will be consistent to where we are now. So we think it's probably the best of everything next year, a strong pipe on the top end and consistent on the amphitheater end.

That's great. Maybe switching to the demand side, even with the headwind from stadium this year, you mentioned Live Nation's sold 118 million tickets through the middle of July, which is up relative to where you were at this point last year. That said, we've seen some companies in the travel and leisure space over the last couple of months speak to a weaker economy, maybe some reversion to the mean coming out of COVID. I'm curious what you're seeing on the demand front through the end of the summer heading into the fall? Any pockets of weakness across the footprint?

We don't see it. And you almost hate saying it because everyone else is saying it. But we do think we have a very unique product, right? We are not the theme park. I have 3 young boys, and it doesn't matter if I take them this week or May. As long as I tell them some time, we're going to go to Disneyland, they'll be okay. But my son wanted to see Green Day last week, I had to do it, right? That's the one scarcity moment that Green Day's in town. So we have this great, great thing called scarcity. Probably like the NFL has it, right? If they're reporting numbers, I don't think anyone in an NFL is going to say that they're feeling any pullback. You had to see the chargers, kick Oakland's ass on Sunday Live. It didn't -- you couldn't see it a week later, sorry to Oakland fans. But we -- so we don't see the pullback. We think that there's a bunch of factors. Pricing, as much as it makes headlines on the top end, it's still the most affordable opportunity out there. Average 75% of tickets are under $100. Most half tickets are under $50, still look at it compared to sports. We've never been able to figure out this PR struggle, but man sports is like a -- it's a badge of honor to say that the court sizes were 7,000, and you're horrible, if you charge $800 for a front row concert. So incredibly affordable opportunity in the big picture. You can stack it up to sports, theater, a good night out at a restaurant, concerts are always going to be much more bang for your buck and cheaper, accessible. Number two is, as I said, the scarcity at the moment. These are just -- although we hear a lot, they tour every 3, 4 years, once in your city, not 80 home games a year. So that's scarcity. And then the third is the great advantage and this advantage of our industry is this consumer base is so passionate. These are -- music inspires. It's one of the most passionate consumer experiences in all of our data. You ask them over and over. It ranks #1, 2, it's higher than any other Kodak moment that they experience. So they're very passionate fans. They want to connect with that artist. There's no digital replication here. You cannot watch that show at home. You do not get goosebumps when you watch it on Apple TV. So we're really lucky. We're in interest where you've got to go see it to feel it. Your artist put an incredible show better and better every year. Their production is great. They've risen to the occasion. So to go for that spectacular, 1 or 2 times a year, that Kodak moment of memory, we still look at consumers, and they will make sure even if they don't go to Disneyland or maybe put off the dishwasher, the 1 or 2 times a year, they're going to go with their kids or their wife, their friend, this is still the most really impactful moment for them.

Let's talk about some of the ways you're looking to meet that scarcity with capacity on the Venue Nation side of the business. You've been coming increasingly focused on building out your portfolio of owned and operated venues. Think at the moment, you have an active pipeline of about 40 venues across the globe with 14 major venues that to come in over the course of 2024 and 2025. Could you maybe talk a little bit more about where you see the greatest opportunity to increase the venue footprint? And how quickly you can really address and attack some of those opportunities to ramp the pipeline?

Yes. We've always been a venue operator, the least a lot of venues, the Shoreline Amphitheater down the street or the Filmore. So it's in our DNA. Really through COVID, we did a restructure and brought a lot of the pieces together under this Venue Nation strategy. It was really about -- where we were not doing a good job is we were never front-leading development. We were just kind of the back etcher. If you went and built the venue down the street, you did an RFP, and we gave you a 20-year lease, and you took that lease, went to the bank and financed it, always drove us a little crazy. Since the content drove it. We realized we needed to be in that front end of the business, too, instead of paying that incredible huge lease for 20 years, what if we built it, what if we then manage it and could finance it. So that was a strategic shift to us because we started to kind of compare when we put a show in a non-Live Nation venue, when we put a show in a leased venue or put a show in a venue we own. Your return on capital is incredible on the third option when done right. So the Austin Arena was kind of our first big moment. We're still building an arena in a white space market. Let's run it, build it and manage it. And that's been an incredible 25-plus percent return on capital. So we think on a global basis, we always look at the market as there's 100 cities that matter. They all want to be New York. They all want a great venue. They all want Beyonce, they all want entertainment. And outside of America, most of them don't have much infrastructure because soccer or football dominates the rest of the world. There is no NBA, no NHL. There's no brand-new chase center in Singapore or Sao Paulo or Mexico City. So we look globally, even though we're in those markets, and we're putting artists and beat up all venues, has -been arenas or cut down stadiums or probably a lot of greenfield in the middle of fields we create products. We realize that the great white space in the arena business outside of America, that's our greatest opportunity. So we have now some arenas in Europe, and we think there's a great runway there. Everywhere from Sao Paulo to Rio, we think they're all under serviced, and we think we can build them effectively. The Austin model we love. We're not building a $1 billion chase center. We're building a $400, $400 million music venue, and we can get a great return on capital and expand the market. So that's our greatest opportunity.

What about on the refurbishment side? I feel like there's a whole host of amphitheaters that you might own or lease on a long-term basis that were built back in the '80s or '90s. There may be some opportunity for you to enhance the food and beverage and VIP portions of that business? I think Jones Beach was a great example this past year. How much of a runway is there on venue refurbishment and ROI that could come from those types of investments?

Yes. We think that's our most obvious biggest opportunity. And it just comes with in general, the business in general is becoming an area where premium pricing is something we can really look at in these events. If you look at what the sports business there ahead of us, they used to have the Oakland arena, maybe they had a ring of suites. And then you look at the Chase when they built the Chase. And they went -- I remember when they were building that they presented it to me, and they talked about the 17 different zones, the premium. It's no longer sell a suite to a corporation for the year. It's how do I monetize a night. And how do I make sure that I have all this premium opportunity for a one-off event. Our amphitheaters is kind of like the Oakland arena. They're still live in that older model of premium suites. Jones Beach will be the first example where we said, if we took a premium -- if we took our venue, which is averaged about 9% premium, we can get to 30% premium, that's where most new arenas would be looking to do. You have a huge unlock in opportunity. So Jones Beach to be the first where we went from a crappy VIP to multiple VIP, multiple premium areas, upgraded food and beverage. And you've got the fan base already coming. We know if we upgrade, give you higher premium, our per heads are going to increase, and the return is we look on site. Our returns, 20%, 30% return on capital when we have an existing venue with a good consumer base. They want a better experience. We just need to provide better opportunity and more products on the shelf to satisfy that need. So we have a current program. We're working on in-house with our design department and looking to roll out more VIP, more premium across all of our top amphitheaters over the next few years.

You mentioned some of the returns that you're able to generate on venue investment. Curious, look at newbuilds, venue renovations. In the past, you've spoken to north of 20% ROICs. Curious, you're looking out over the next 5, maybe 10 years, how much capital do you feel like you can put to work at those types of returns? And is it a limitation of capital you're willing to invest or just the pace of opportunities that come about as the limiting factor to how quickly you can deploy that against that opportunity?

Yes. We -- in our balance sheet, we've been doing this for years. We're always adding 10, 15 venues through our current cash flow. So we have no balance sheet limitations. And if we did, there's always great financing opportunities in this space now. We've seen a big shift for residential, obviously, to these long-term commitments. You look at Austin, when we brought that to the bank with a 20-year committed revenue business, we got incredible debt against that business. So we're not worried about that. No, it's more -- really, it was first just we got to get our own infrastructure in place. We've been staffing up, building this Venue Nation development team over the last 3 years. We're just made another big, great hire in Europe, hopefully a couple more on an international basis. So we're building that infrastructure in that muscle so we can be first and so over the next 5 years, it's more our pace growing faster, building the competency and putting those deals in place. There's more opportunity than there is time right now. But the good news for us on the return on capital is there's no one we have to do. The advantage of being global is you don't have to go chase any one venue. We don't have to do Vegas if it doesn't make sense for me. I can do Sao Paulo, which absolutely makes sense. You can do -- we're looking in Cape Town right now, Johannesburg, where it's so underserviced. So we've got a lot of these on the board. You're looking at lead times, approvals, capital return. And we continue looking at which ones have the highest of it and rising and ones aren't working, we can put them aside. So we think the return on capital is going to be the easy part, hardest part today has just been the last 3 years, built the right team, so you can be the leader in it.

I want to turn to Ticketmaster. Ticketmaster continues to attract new clients. So far this year, you've added 17 million net new fee-bearing tickets on top of the 21 million from last year and the 23 million from the year prior, a good track record of success. Can you maybe talk a little bit more about the driving force behind some of those ticket wins? Why Ticketmaster's winning out over that the competitors in the space? And then looking ahead, how much more opportunity do you think there is internationally for Ticketmaster to go after market share?

Yes. I mean Ticketmaster, listen, ticketing, as we all see, it's a tough front door. In today's world, consumers are never happy when they can't get a ticket. They might not have known before when they waited in lines. But today, the Internet, you quickly know when you're trying to serve 500,000 tickets to 10 million people, you're waking up with 9.5 million that don't like you instantly. So it's always been a tough business from the front door. But what Ticketmaster has continually done is built the best enterprise global platform. If you are a sports team, you're a venue and you need -- the sports business, the most demanding business when you're servicing the Chase Center, when you're servicing the NBA team, the NFL team, the soccer team in international, that's mostly your customer at that big venue. Highly demanding, hundreds of different tools you need to develop for them so they can deliver their game data, season their charity, split-up programs. They've always been the best at building a global enterprise that you as the venue. You've got many options to pick from, but you got to find that Microsoft or Salesforce-type enterprise that's evolved, that has CRM that can plug into all my players, that's easy for my staff to use. So we've been obsessed since we took over Ticketmaster to continue to elevate the enterprise platform. At the end of the day, that's #1 tool, it's on B2B, make sure that venue who has options continually says, "You know what, I like the other options, but they have the deepest connection. They have the most tools, the greatest data tools, the greatest way for me, the team owner or the venue owner to use that and outsource that to Ticketmaster," much like their Salesforce decision or their Microsoft decision. So there's no one that has invested as much as we have in enterprise platform for that customer, and it continue will win. And so that's number one. The marketplace side is still the secret sauce advantage because if you're the team owner, you want your own data, you want to sell on your own site, you want all that, which we've all turned around in the last 10 years. We took Ticketmaster over, it was a closed platform that didn't give data away. Today, it's an open platform, lets you take the data, right? You were the customer. So one of the great things, though, is if you're the San Francisco 49ers or the Warriors, you have your own database, you have your own agenda, but you also have a bunch of single tickets to sell. So put them on the Ticketmaster marketplace using the Ticketmaster's database to help sell those tickets. No matter what they -- where else they put tickets, they'll always find that they sell more tickets at tm.com than their own site or access or StubHub or wherever else they may be distributed. So marketplace-wise, they've done a great job of selling incremental tickets for the business customer and on the enterprise, that's their core business. They've done a great job evolving, continue evolving. We've got some new AI tools. We'll build into that over time, help you build your events better, help you price them. So continually building great enterprise, sticky software that the team owners, venue owners want to use on that. Now globally is a great opportunity, why? Just because other than Canada, U.S., the U.K., maybe Australia, most other markets are really, really unsophisticated. Maybe they're still selling at retail, maybe they're still selling on their phone. Most of those markets are very, very old integrated systems. So any time we launch like we did in Brazil and launched TM in Brazil and sell out festivals and bring these tools there, we see great opportunities. So most of Ticketmaster's expansion will be on an international basis in these markets that are under serviced, have -- maybe existing competitors maybe but nowhere near the technology that Ticketmaster's enterprise would have.

Sponsorship has been a great growth story for Live Nation over the last decade. I'm curious looking ahead, where do you see the most opportunity for growth? And then as you think about stepping up, perhaps some of these regional sponsors that have come into the vertical over the last couple of years, international or even global sponsors what's the key pitch for them? And what does Live Nation doing to work with some of these sponsors to get them up the value chain to spend a little bit more money with you guys?

Yes. My sponsors team are the -- they're the unsung heroes. They have -- we've got over 900 sponsors. And these 600-plus salespeople are working every day with the biggest brands in the world. When I came up -- when we launched Live Nation, we were looking for the name. I gave the creative -- the agency, the creative brief of the NFL. And I said, how do we come up with that name? We're kind of the NFL of music. Trusted, if you want to be in business with us, thus, we came up with Live Nation. If you're a brand right now, you probably want our demographic, incredible demographic. We can actually tell you where they're going to be on a Tuesday. So we have such direct data about that customer. It's very unique. Unlike while you're trying to solve how to reach customers on social and advertising and what's the new way reach on scale, you're going to have some of your budget and say, "You know what, I just want to make sure I reach 19 to 34 customer in San Francisco. I mean you have that customer in scale, let's develop a program for them. So as our business has become very data-driven, elevated our team and can deliver against your acquisition costs and deliver you a real structured business customer with results, our business is continually growing. So we have a very attractive customer base with great tools now. There's no one in our business would be as sophisticated as we are. So we are the NFL, if you want to call it. If you want to talk to customers in the music business, which is a highly sought-after category, you're probably going to say, you know what, Live Nation seems to be the place. I'm going to go meet Russell and the team in New York, sit down with them, talk about my sales needs, my brand needs, customer needs, see if they can develop a program to meet my needs. And we've had incredible repeat customers and been able to grow this business ongoing. And one of the great side stories there in that business called our Commercial division, is our Liquid Death story. So we're also looking not just at how do we have a sponsor, but Liquid Death was an example where we used to take a check for a plastic bottle of water, decided we wanted to go look at options, most about sustainability. And we've lined up some companies that were in aluminum cans and had other offerings. And I meet with Liquid Death founder, gave him our business in return for a good size of equity check. I don't know it was trading at $75 million, $100 million valuation. It's, I think, just recently at a $2 billion valuation. So we do look at our 900 product categories, and we are going to continue to look at ways that maybe we don't take the check, but we can invest or create or co-own some of those opportunities since we have such unique distribution. So you'll see some more of those ideas come to life.

That's great. Maybe just to finish it up here with a minute remaining as you look out over the next year or 2, top 1 or 2 priorities that you want the investment community to focus on opportunities that you're most excited about executing against? And we're sitting back here next year, the investment story, looking ahead, where do you want Live Nation to be positioned?

Yes. I think we're going to be a business that will continually show that this live industry is resilient, regardless of what economic challenges are going on. I think it's a very resilient industry. Our job, Joe and I and the team, is to make sure any of the noise on the regulation side does not affect our business. It's business as usual, pedal down to the ground, and we're going to grow this business aggressively as we have. And we think we'll continue to be a story that over delivers against which we've promised given how robust this industry is.

Great. Michael, thank you so much for taking the time.

Thank you. Thank you, everyone.