Lonza Group AG (LONN) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Great. Hi, everyone. So my name is Zain Ebrahim, European biopharma and life sciences analyst. I'd like to welcome you to the Lonza session at the 43rd Annual JPMorgan Healthcare Conference today. And with me from Lonza gives me great pleasure to introduce both Wolfgang Wienand, the CEO; and Philippe Deecke. Before I hand over to them for their presentation, I'd just like to remind you that this will follow the usual structure. So a 20-minute presentation followed by 20 minutes of Q&A. And that Q&A will be your question primarily hopefully. And you can ask those questions either through the microphone or virtually through the platform. With that, over to you, Wolfgang, welcome.

Yes. Thank you very much, Zain. Did you really say 20 minutes presentation -- I'm just joking, right? But welcome to One Lonza and let's dive into it immediately. And I do that first with pointing at our safe harbor statement. So please take note, read carefully and feel bound to that. And with that, actually, kind of summarize what I would like you to leave the room with, which is actually around 5 key messages. The first one is actually One Lonza is a place of unique opportunity; secondly, we have a clear strategy and a clear plan for value creation; thirdly, we have a unique set of strengths, which we will later call the Lonza Engine, and actually will introduce it to you, but still are self-reflective and can still do better; fourthly, we don't waste time taking decisions, and I think I can bring evidence for that claim. And lastly, we expect to deliver strong value creation in the future. And with that, actually go to what I as a new CEO, I'm actually approaching my day 200 in 2 days from now, started at Lonza on July 1, last year. What I, together with the team, have set out as our 3-step plan, a number of key priorities on which we immediately started to work with the team. Some of them already checked, I mean done. Others clearly with a longer time horizon. What are they? First of all, established a long -- a strong vision for One Lonza. Great clarity on ambition, and aim high. That is being executed and implemented, and I'll talk to that later on through the new vision of One Lonza. The vision that educates the unified corporate strategy which will then lead and use what we will introduce as the Lonza Engine because we spend time on thinking through what actually brought the company where it is today, being the market leader, the pioneer in the space and what will be the sources of our future success. And that's going to be what we will call from now onwards, the Lonza Engine. And that educates is kind of a reference, a north star for our strategic actions going forward, supporting a unified strategy, not only for the individual businesses but for the whole group. And that we translated into specific initiatives, I mean, tuning the Lonza Engine, making it even stronger, which is about focus, reshape, elevate and expand. And I will actually talk to each and every of those key initiatives in a minute. But having said it introduced a new vision, which is a entice of our thinking and the centerpiece clearly, of this presentation. What is it? We are the pioneer and world leader in the CDMO industry, setting the pace with cutting-edge science, smart technology and lean manufacturing. Lonza, actually 40, 45 years ago invented kind of the CMO at that time, a business model and has been able, throughout the decades to actually reinvent and reinvent itself over and over again and establishing a strong footprint, a strong position in the competitive landscape. I mean it's a pretty rich vision, and we actually used it to break it down. What are the individual components of that vision. First of all, there is an implicit, important statement built into that vision statement, which is we want to be a pure-play CDMO for the biopharma industry from small biotech, mid-sized companies to big pharma. Today, we are not a pure play CDMO, and I'll come to that in a minute. Secondly, we want to continue to be world leading, which is about being present across all relevant modalities, which is about covering the relevant part of the biopharmaceutical value chain, drug substance and drug products. And also in the other dimension, covering everything from preclinical services, being with our customers, being at the side of our customers early on and taking their breakthrough innovations and turn them into viable therapies down to commercial manufacturing. And all of that, of course, with the ambition of creating outstanding value for all our stakeholders. And we want to continue to be pioneering when it comes to science technology and manufacturing. So I think the center -- I mean the central statement actually is how to create outstanding value. First of all, you need a market which provides for opportunities. Otherwise, I mean, you can't create value. Second of all, you need a robust, sustainable business model to exploit those opportunities. And lastly, you need something in order not to be one of many. You need something which differentiates yourself, which is about our unique set of strength, which we will call from now onwards the Lonza Engine. But let's maybe step by step go through those requirements for outstanding value creation. First of all, I mean, many of you know the market, so I won't spend too much time considering the 20 minutes on the market. But very quickly, underlying market, we all know that is -- I mean it's a privilege to operate in the pharmaceutical universe. And I've chosen in this case, shots on target in a certain way, number of molecular entities being in development and how they grow over time, small molecules growing at 4%, biologics at 6%; and Cell & Gene at 9%. That is what is provided to us by the market underlying, the pharmaceutical market itself. We see on top of that, a growth increment available to CDMOs, which comes from reallocation of volumes from pharmaceutical companies to CDMOs like Siegfried. And all that actually adds up to when looking at the market segments relevant to Lonza adds up to an underlying market plus growth increment a growth of 8% to 10%. Some core characteristics of that market, which are compelling and attractive as well, noncyclical, of course, it's clear. I mean, it's about products, getting stuff done. So you can't grow without continuously investing, and that's what we do at Lonza. We have a strong -- I mean, if you do things right, and if you are at the side of your customers and actually make their breakthrough innovations and success, they tend to stay with you and be loyal. We have a strong revenue visibility, which means we can plan what's going to come down the road, and they are in terms of competition significant areas -- barriers to entry vendor. Where are we where do we see ourselves in the space with our above CHF 6 billion revenues. And also the breadth of technologies, we believe that we are in a very strong position that essentially not many other CDMOs can claim, probably none. And on top of, let's say, the risk diversification within individual projects and product portfolios for a certain technology, be it small molecules, biologics or whatsoever, which, I mean, any CDMO can actually do and is the core value contribution to the pharmaceutical universe, Lonza is probably the one and only company who can offer any modality at scale in any region of the world, which is a good place to be in a good starting point to create outstanding value. So I talked about the Lonza Engine, what makes us special and why we are as a management team as a Lonza team, why we are so confident about our ability to also in the future, create outstanding value, 5 elements, and that's the Lonza. First of all, it's One Lonza team. And clearly above average a collection of talented scientists, technical people, support functions. So that is something that I -- actually with a lot of joy and also satisfaction and hope discovered throughout my first 200 days that this is really a winning team, and we will be able to further evolve as such. So people then, I mean, of course, related to that people at Lonza, over the decades, we have been able to create, I believe, a super strong scientific, technological and also engineering ecosystem so that -- I mean we are able -- should be able to find answers to essentially any relevant technological challenge within the pharmaceutical manufacturing space. So second pillar. Third pillar is the kind of partnership the kind of commitment, the level of trust that all our customers are actually willing to put into us at Lonza and the depth and the breadth of partnerships, strategic partnerships that we are able to enter into with our clients is actually great and provides for opportunity to further exploit that potential. Then fourthly, end-to-end execution capabilities. As I said before, I mean, if you want to grow at a pace of 10%, 12%, 13% year-on-year, you need to constantly add capacity, and you need to be able to do it all around the world across technologies, and that's what Lonza has been doing over the past years and will be doing going forward. So a strong end-to-end execution capability as the fourth pillar of Lonza Engine. Lastly, plug-and-play investment and integration capabilities because you need to get all these assets integrated in your network. With M&A, you need to be able to actually bring them online and sell them to customers. You need to bring on new people. And for that, you need a plug-and-play mentality and the ability.So that's going to be the Lonza Engine from now going onward. And I will try to provide in a fast-forward fashion, some proof points for these claims summarized under this term. First of all, team and organization just picked 2 things here. First of all, we are strongly driven by purpose. I mean that's the privilege of the pharmaceutical companies. I think among all of us while, of course, it is business, it is also about being inspired to go the extra mile and at Lonza, it became quickly clear and is supported by the employee survey as well. We are very much driven by our purpose. Customers recognize that. They also recognize the technological scientific expertise of our people. So 99% actually of our customers when doing our Net Promoter Score valuations highly appreciate our people and their capabilities. So scientific technological ecosystem. I mean, what is a good proof point. We thought it's probably, I mean, the number of new molecular entities that we together and for our clients, of course, they are the stars, that we, together with our clients, have been able to bring to market. Looking at the past 6 years, it has been 30 altogether, which is much more than any other CDMO has been able to do over the same period of time. And while the next comparison is not really like-for-like, it's still interesting. We thought that those 30 compared to 11 launches of the most successful pharmaceutical company over the same period of time. And if we consider Lonza IP, the figures are even much higher. So we are at the forefront, and we are at the side of our customers when it comes to bringing innovations to market. We constantly work at on somewhat like 900 development projects, so feeding our pipeline and taking those opportunities further down the pipeline. Customers, some of them -- some of you might be surprised because, I mean, sometimes one might be tempted to think about large CDMOs as partners only for big pharma, which is true. We appreciate those partnerships a lot. But we are also strong partners of biotech companies and essentially 50% of our revenues are with big pharma, 50% with small biotechs. We serve essentially each and every big pharma company but quite a number of CDMO -- biotech customers as well. Strong contracting at CHF 13 billion in 2023, and quite a number of blockbusters depending on Lonza services. Execution. So Lonza has been building and will continue to build capacities all around the world. Currently, we have 22 projects under construction or in ramp-up or just taking it into operation all around the world. With Vacaville, the acquisition of the former Genentech side, not far away from here in California being the latest addition to that network. However, those of you who have actually built pharmaceutical manufacturing plants, there are also opportunities for us to improve, which will further support value creation going forward. So people I just take 1 figure here, because when I visited Visp, one of the, I mean, flagship sites and our global network in Switzerland. Actually, I mean, I heard the stories what the team there has been able to achieve over the last 3 to 4 years, including the COVID adventure or challenge, I would say. So in this little village in the south of Switzerland, actually Lonza has been able to more than double the number of employees, and we now have 70 nationalities working in that in that small village, which speaks to our ability to also culturally onboard people plug and play and grow. And with that, having introduced and spoken to the secret sauce, so to say, of Lonza and what has made us successful and will make us successful going forward. There are also opportunities for us to further improve. And when starting at Lonza, on July 1 and starting -- I made it an important initiative of myself to talk to as many people as possible across the organization and trust functions, not only, but of course, also leadership. I mean, besides, let's say, a strong drive, a strong notion of being open to opportunities. Also, I mean, pride of what the company, what the teams have been able to achieve. And more than once heard the sentence, we could still even do so much better, which is a great thing for a new CEO because it provides for the starting point to further build out a strong company. So a number of things we summarized and translated into the 4 key initiatives: one being reshaping. So I met a very siloed organization in itself, very healthy, but actually not fully exploiting all the synergies available to us at Lonza. So reshaping, about operating model. Elevate is about execution capabilities, be it about CapEx or running our assets then focus business model, CHI, Capsules business, I'll speak to that as well, which is a great business, but it's not a CDMO business. And it's not the place where our Lonza Engine functions best, I would say. And then in the end, expand, which is about system harmonization plug-and-play, but also making better use of opportunities being available for us for both on M&A. So reshape very quickly, new operating model announced on the 12th of December, currently being finalized and to be implemented in the second quarter of this year is about taking the 3 very autonomous divisions and translating them into a differently set up integrated business platforms. We actually also aligned the organization -- the organizational setup within the business platforms into functional organizations with functional depth. We took out one management level in order to provide for faster decision-making and taking out complexity. And in the end, we translated the divisional strategies into a unified Lonza strategy. Specifically, a quick look only at what it means. Integrated biologics will host in the future, our mammalian business, and the aseptic drug product services, advanced into this is going to be the small molecules business plus ADCs or bioconjugates and the specialized modalities with Cell & Gene, mRNA, microbial and biosciences. And you also see how actually the network is distributed, how revenues are distributed and also very important, and it was 1 angle and reason why we also thought about the operating model, how we distribute our growth projects within the whole company. So Elevate is about executing CapEx. It's going to be key for our future to really, I mean, keep up the pace of growth available to us by providing the needed capacity.So this is about -- I mean, what to in-source, what to outsource when it comes to engineering capabilities, we find governance for those endeavors and also be mindful of where to lead in terms of technology and where to build for fit for purpose. Also, I mean, excellence in operating, it's about governance, it's about continuing our lean efforts and also being very mindful to efficiently ramp up new assets, which is a delicate sensitive period of time, of course. So with that, a brief look at the CHI business, our Capsules and Health Ingredients business, currently, one division of Lonza and something for which we, as a management team at Lonza and announced on the 12th of December took the decision to exit this business at the appropriate point in time in the interest of our shareholders and our employees. Even though it's a brilliant business, it is not benefiting as much from the Lonza Engine as the other businesses, sales above CHF 1 billion, an industry-leading profit margins and truly driving innovation in that space and being ahead of the wave. And in terms of outlook, we expect attractive growth rates and expanding margins there as well. However, again, different market dynamics, different technologies, different business model, which is why we took that very decision to focus on what's going to be core for Lonza in the future, which is the CDMO business. Expand. So where will we put our money in the future? And here, as I said before, the Lonza engine will be the North Star, will be the set of criteria that we apply to each and every new opportunity, be it organic or be it inorganic and only against our ambition of delivering outstanding value. I mean, only if we can apply this unique set of strengths to that very opportunity only then we would be ready to invest, be it organically or inorganically, we would actually take an impartial approach between the 2 investing ourselves building or doing both on M&A. And here, you see the distribution in terms of almost a heated which is not exclusive. There are also opportunistic elements in that, of course, but that's going to be the focus when it comes to expanding the company going forward. There is one important element, and I will talk to that in the next slide, which is, of course, we, as a management team, we cannot only look 1 year, 3 years or even 5 years down the road, even though that might be the time frame for a certain manager. We also need to make sure that in 10, 15 years, 20 years down the road, Lonza is still ahead of the wave. That means we need to continuously watch the market, see what's happening, what are the manufacturing technologies of the future, and actually enter and invest that space. In a certain way, this graph here shows this perspective or this view on the market. We have a number of very attractive absolute growers, right? Large markets still growing significantly, for example, highly potent APIs or antibodies. We are also active in what we call relative growth, yes? So relatively small still, but high gross margins -- sorry, high growth rates, right, like Cell & Gene, cell therapy and ADCs. But we need to continuously also watch that space of upcoming emerging new technologies. Because those, at least those who -- which will be successful in the future will become relative growers and eventually absolutely grow us further down the road. And that is what Lonza will continue to invest in, be it through own development or acquisitions. What is the financial model behind the Lonza Engine to turn it also into economic value. That's a flywheel. Strong top line growth. I mean, as discussed, organic growth ahead of market. Here, we expect low teens organic growth within the CDMO business over time on average, and we will continue to actually add the growth projects needed to support that growth. We will translate that into margins, expanding margins through different means, which will lead to a profit growth ahead of sales growth, which provides for the cash that we will then need to invest into future growth. I mean, partial for inorganic growth or organic growth and, of course, handed out to our shareholders, be it through dividends or share buybacks or any other means to hand a surplus capital back to shareholders. Briefly, the Lonza Engine as the kind of the growth framework, which we ourselves with in Lonza, but also those who are shareholders or are just watching the company might use as the framework in terms of, I mean, writing down what you can expect from us going forward. First of all, the lonza Engine. Underlying growth rates, 8 to 10, Lonza Engine making us special. Making -- I mean, enabling us to grow ahead of the market. So an underlying organic growth rate of low teens, which is, of course, combined with investment into growth. And here, we see mid- to high teens CapEx in terms of percentages of sales over time, which consists of, first of all, investment into infrastructure, into systems, into maintenance, what you need to do to keep your network in shape. And on top of that, the incremental CapEx into additional capacity and all that, leads into what we will call from now onwards, the CDMO organic growth model, so low teens percentages on average over time, and the core EBITDA margin growing ahead of the sales growth itself. Specifically for 2024, we confirmed the outlook on the 12th of December. Otherwise, I won't speak too much to 2024. But happily repeat our outlook for the CDMO business for 2025, which is in constant exchange rates, sales growth approaching 20%, including approximately CHF 0.5 billion from the Vacaville acquisition and the core EBITDA margin approaching 30% for the CHI business for which we, for the reasons discussed before, we decided to exit at the appropriate point in time. We will guide from now on separately and expect the return to sales margin growth, low to mid-single-digit percentage in terms of top line and mid-20s when it comes to core EBITDA margin. And with that, I happily conclude and look forward to, together with Philippe, take questions and provide as useful as possible answers. I have introduced to you the new vision of One Lonza, explained the Lonza Engine as the secret sauce for our past and also the future success and how it educates the One Lonza strategy, 4 key initiatives for implementation. And I conclude with a key sentence for us at Lonza, we are One Lonza. Thank you very much, and happy to take questions. Over to you, Zain.

Great. Thanks, Wolfgang. [Operator Instructions]. I can see one raised hand already, maybe while the microphone is its way there, I will ask a question, which is just on your One Lonza vision you've outlined. It's only been a month since you outlined that vision, but maybe just the early feedback that you've received both from internally and also from your customers, how has that been?

Yes. Thank you. Indeed, it's early, of course. But throughout the first 6 months, we, of course, tested hypothesis. So the things I hope, and that's the feedback that I got that the team got that many of the things that people actually shared with us, we translate it into actions. So I think there was a lot of support and people actually look forward to what's going to come and also the implementation of the operating model, which even requires us to make sure that we are not jumping the gun, right? It's going to be effective only in the second quarter, and we need to make and will make sure that actually we will continue to operate and deliver in the old setting as well. But overall, I think if course, a lot of change, and we will have to be mindful to manage it properly. When it comes to customers, we didn't spend much time on it, but it's also about customer experience, taking out a management level, it will be positive. On the other hand, if we look in a very detail what's happening for an individual customer in terms of interfaces, we, of course, try to and have been able to minimize change here so that they are essentially mostly the same phases available to the customer the benefit in the end, and we will be able to deliver on that is that integration of the different technologies in our expectation will be easier going forward. So the whole offering of Lonza will become easier available to our clients. That's my current view.

Great.

Yes, If I may just ask the question. So thank you very much for the presentation. I struggle with the divestiture of CHI. And to me, it looks like you're embarking on a massive value destruction once you execute on that. And I'm saying that because this was acquired many years ago for mid-teens multiples you are trading at a certain multiple. I don't know what your expectation is what you're going to get to it. You're, of course, caveating it by saying, I don't sell it now, I do it at the right time. But it feels to me that you are embarking on a journey that is going to massively destroy shareholder value once you do that transaction. And I really would like to understand, if you could walk us through the financial rationale for shareholders of why they should applaud that strategy?

Yes. I mean it's too early, of course, to share details about expectation, and I can't and won't do that, of course. But it is not our expectation and clearly not the intention to destroy value here. I mean what I can tell is that just based on noise, inroads, conversations so far, that we have reasons to expect a strong interest for that business. And also in terms of the financial performance, we are talking about the market leader in attractive space, and are convinced that this business will be able to return to the previous margin levels and growth levels as well. And if we look -- take a closer look at the individual segments of CHI, in one part, we already see the uptake in terms of growth. And also in the other part, there are good indications that we will be able to build a strong business case when it comes to also top line growth. On the other hand, to be very clear about that, this is a great business, market leading. This is not a fire sale. We are not under pressure. We don't have to sell, and we will take the necessary time to find a value-adding good solution for shareholders and stakeholders as well.

Any other questions in the audience?

So earlier when you introduced the market, I think you correctly point out that the underlying market is not cyclical. But I guess, CDMO is a CapEx-heavy industry, it could incurrent be kind of cyclical. So how do you think about potential risk of over supplier capacity? And how do you try to navigate that?

To make sure that I understood the question. Can you help me to summarize.

I think there's a question on overcapacity -- you had a risk of that...

If the market is noncyclical, CDMO could become cyclical through having too much capacity at some point.

Okay. Yes, clear. I mean, if you get out of balance in terms of demand supply, then you have a problem. Our view is actually that in the areas in which we are active, the supply-demand balance actually is in the favor of the suppliers. And we very carefully track per modality what is being announced by, I mean, competitors by -- or to my customers. And we, of course, know our own growth plans, and we are actually confident that this balance will continue to be very favorable, maybe even underserved, so that there might even be more demand than supply available. So that this is actually not our expectation and not our concern.

Thank you for the presentation. I have a very general question for you. I'm interested in how you approach participating in emerging biopharma markets and new geographies. One example that I would give would be the Middle East and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, where there are some really extraordinary opportunities and kind of a blank slate for developing life sciences and biopharma infrastructure. So It'd be great if you could talk a little bit about that and your interest in that area.

Yes. I think a great question, which is about both. I mean, what technology is to bet on or to invest into and where. Maybe starting in terms of new technologies. One reason, among others, to be active in the early development space, so even preclinical work is that it, of course, provides us early on with signals what the future demand in terms of manufacturing technologies will be. So we see it because we talk with clients and create the solutions together with them. Then the question is how to make it work? Do we do it internally? Or do we -- are we going out to acquire? And an example that I actually skipped before Synaffix about linkers in the ADC space, there has been an acquisition done by Lonza in the past, turned out to be very successful because of this plug-and-play ability to take the technology and bring it to customers and provide solutions. So that's probably the how in terms of expanding our technology portfolio. The what is kind of -- of course, I'm certain. You need to take risk in that area, but we are willing and able to do so based on the market intel that we get from our early phase services. In terms of regions, we would probably always look for good reasons to be in a certain region, which can be just customers asking us. And the U.S. obviously are very strong in asking for presence within the U.S., and we are and have a strong footprint in the U.S. Then there are things like, I mean, certain logistic challenges where you would rather not fly products over the ocean, but be close to where actually the therapy is applied. Cell & Gene, Cell Therapy being such a place. And then you would probably start to look for prevalence. I mean, in which patient population is a high prevalence and the ability to pay for certain therapies. And this might lead you to certain regions in the world. This is how we would look at that and take our decisions without commenting on specific regions, if that is okay.

Maybe just to build on the early stage services offering, just thinking about biotech funding trends. What's the latest you're seeing there? And how do you expect that recovery to look in '25.

Yes, probably 2 perspectives. First of all, let's say, high level. And there, we are probably all looking at similar figures. Biotech VC funding is recovering. But of course, that doesn't help if just the market report claims that do we see it in our day-to-day business development. Yes, we see it. There is an uptake in early phase biotech opportunities and we are able to take on more molecules than in the trough of that development.

Okay. Any other audience questions? Maybe pivoting to Vacaville then. How is the integration progressing? When can we expect to see maybe further contracts, how the negotiations with customers progressing.

Maybe starting on integration itself, which is technical and probably even more important, so cultural integration. That is really working according to plan as an outcome of a great cooperation of both, the Vacaville team itself, which really embraced the opportunity to become part of Lonza, but of course, also of the Lonza integration team. Just to give you one figure, which impressed myself. I mean out of 800 employees, we actually formally from a work law perspective, hydrotransfer employment contracts. And they had to -- I mean, they didn't have to agree, but we had to ask, right? And out of 800, actually 797 happily accepted that offer, which speaks to the readiness of the site to become part of Lonza. So in terms of technical culture integration, that's ongoing work, of course, but it's working well business. We already had an LOI signed before day one before closing. This turned into hard commitment, and have been able to even sign a second hard commitment. I will be visiting the site on Thursday, Friday with the client to show it to him in this case. And overall, the reception -- and the interest for the Vacaville capacity is actually are very promising, and we are looking forward to really fully exploit that additional potential available to us at Lonza.

And have you started the CapEx program that you outlined for? I think it was a CHF 500 million CapEx program and you said you maybe provide more detail later this year.

Yes, we didn't start that yet. We are in the planning phase. Thanks, Zain, for pointing that because it's also important to be clear, this CHF 0.5 billion is not for making this a good site. It actually is in an excellent state. As one can imagine, Roche and Genentech having been the owners before. This CapEx really is to make it more flexible for CDMO operation and adding new technologies. That will happen over the next 3 to 4 years. We would have to take a mindful approach because for a CapEx initiative, you need to shut down a certain suite, which means you can't operate during that time, and we will do it in a mindful way to balance business intake, not wasting opportunities and at the same time, not sacrifice in the future. Of course, we need the agility, the flexibility and the new technologies going forward. So that's going to be an initiative, very detailed planned and executed over the next 3 to 4 years.

That's very clear. Any other questions in the audience?

I know that the Biosecure bill there's been a lot of talk about it hasn't necessarily passed, passed one of the houses here in the U.S...

Can you speak up a bit?

Yes, the Biosecure Act here in the U.S., there's been a lot of talk about it. I know it hasn't been finalized or passed, but following on the question on the CapEx plans over the medium term, are you planning any further investments here in the U.S.? Or any update on conversations with customers about prioritizing U.S. and/or Western geographically located facilities?

Yes. Yes, thank you. First of all, this is essentially reinforcing what you just said yourself. It's not clear how it's going to -- how it's going to play out in the end. Second point, just looking at what we do today. We have operations in Asia, a very strong attractive site in Singapore for biologics and also very strong site in Nansha in China for small molecules. If you look at the current growth projects, and that is an outcome of decision taking over the past years, but I still quote it, all those growth projects, the 22 that I shared with you on the one slide actually are in the Western Hemisphere. But in the end, we, as a company, will always look at opportunities in a global way, and also Asia and our footprint there and the current facilities are important in our current network. However, currently, our investment, our funds flow into Western markets just as a matter of fact, looking at what we are currently doing.

Perfect. That brings us to the end of the session. Thank you all for coming, and thanks Wolfgang and Philippe.

Thank you.