Lycopodium Limited (LYL) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Lycopodium 1H FY 2025 Results Presentation. [Operator Instructions] I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Peter De Leo, Managing Director. Please go ahead.

Thank you, Ashley, and welcome, and thank you for joining this morning's investor call. We're really pleased to be able to report that Lycopodium has completed another solid half year and that the company is performing very well across all assets. We present our half year results, where you can see we continue to deliver strong revenues and earnings. Our revenue has been predominantly driven by our EPCM services, EPCM projects, reflecting a change from preceding years last year and the year before and also in years prior to that, where EPCM projects have provided supplementary revenue beyond our direct services. That's quite a change, but signifies really very strong revenues on the back of increased staff numbers and utilization in the business. Our NPAT is well above target of -- which we target 10%. We have a very strong cash at bank. And I'll talk more shortly about the acquisition, we just finalized the acquisition of SAXUM, which we have done completely from cash reserves, avoiding raising any debt or diluting our shareholders as we've maintained [indiscernible] since floating in 2004. The half year dividend reflects the purchase of SAXUM from cash reserves. We've declared a half year dividend of $0.10. But if you consider a normalized dividend when you think about the $0.10 we'll be paying shareholders plus effectively the $0.28 we allocated to the SAXUM acquisition, that reflects a $0.38 per share use of our cash on a normalized basis. We've updated FY '25 full year guidance to revenue of between $320 million to $340 million and NPAT of $37 million to $43 million. Lycopodium has enjoyed sustained growth over the past 10 years by continued broadening and strengthening of business across all aspects. This really has been done by focusing on continued delivery of quality work and focusing on providing great outcomes for our clients on their projects and on their studies. We have a very strong committed level of work and a high amount of near-term work and excellent prospects. We estimate that by the execution of our strategies, we've increased our addressable market in the mineral resources sector alone by 40% in the past year as well as broadening sectorally into having bona fide capacity and expertise in the cement industry, which I will talk about a little later. We -- as per the slide, we continue to focus on delivering high-quality work over high-risk work. And this is something the company has done since its inception and really been one of the foundations of the business and its success over the years. So I'll talk a little bit about the SAXUM acquisition. So we've acquired 60% of SAXUM, long-standing client-focused Argentinian headquartered engineering company. It's got offices in Argentina, office in Brazil with an office in the U.S. Aligned with Lycopodium -- the company is aligned with Lycopodium's culture and practices and really supports our geographic expansion in the Americas. The acquisition of SAXUM also allows us to service the cement industry, providing a new and significant international market for Lycopodium. With the support of our already substantial organization and leveraging SAXUM's geographic presence, Latin American network and knowledge and their own excellent track record, we consider this acquisition of an appropriately sized organization will be transformational for Lycopodium. This acquisition, as I already stated, was funded from our own cash reserves and is expected to add circa $2 million to our NPAT from FY '26. SAXUM with our well-established operations in Toronto as well as our office in Lima and our new office in Vancouver, which is just opening in the process of opening as we speak, sees our presence in the Americas increased materially. As you can see from the slide, Lycopodium is poised to take a strong record of accomplishment into new markets, supplementing strong footholds in Africa and in APAC. So we're very excited by this platform. It's going to provide us a fantastic opportunity for growth in years to come. In terms of FY '25 highlights for the first half. Just in terms of operational performance, we're record staff levels, over 1,400 staff in the business across our global offices. We have a strong level of existing work and future order book. Our teams have managed exceptionally well all our projects seen us manage over 16 million manhours with 0 LTIs or 0 LTI frequency rate and extremely low total recordable incident frequency rate. I've already spoken about the market growth through geographic expansion. And given our performance to date and our execution of our strategy, we then have set the foundation for operational excellence moving forward. And the way we've done that is and plan to continue doing is to continue to make more standardize our systems and our approach across our global operation. We have got our enterprise resource planning, SAP system rolling is progressing very well. We'll have that completed this calendar year, including SAXUM. We've expanded globally all our various people-focused initiatives, really continuing to strengthen the Lycopodium brand as an employer of choice and a great place to work. We believe this will give us a fantastic foundation for continue to build the business moving forward. In terms of our strategic pillars, first and foremost, we're a people business. As you have heard me talk many times in the past, we need to ensure that we continue to attract, to develop, to retain a high-quality workforce across the globe. That continues to be one of our foundational strategic pillars. It's critically important and a lot of what we do and actions that we take are really around making sure that we're a good place to work and got a good career path in the business, and this leads to having been able to deploy excellent teams across all our business. Working smarter, we've invested in systems, in processes, in new architecture, standardizing architecture. So we are really focused on working smarter, leveraging those tools, systems and data to improve efficiency, productivity, make sure that we're delivering cost effectively and a high-value service to our clients. Delivering client and project excellence or project excellence for our clients. This has been a fundamental strategy of Lycopodium since foundation. We're a very client-focused business. We take very seriously the importance of a fantastic outcome for our clients and their projects on their studies. We continue to enhance our technical capabilities, our project delivery capabilities to continue to do that. And then finally, sustainably growing core markets. So we're focused on maintaining our market share and our market presence in places that have traditionally been very strong areas of activity for Lycopodium, gold, Africa, copper, et cetera. continue to grow and to broaden those markets. And we're always looking for new opportunities for ways that we can expand, whether it be geographically or expand what we do. Again, an example, a very good example of that, I'm talking about this morning, of course, is SAXUM and some sectoral broadening into cement. In terms of our market segments, we remain strong participants in our existing markets, mineral resources across all commodities. It's a very, very broad basket of commodities we continue to service, and we are able to pivot quickly as some commodities wax and others wane. So we've demonstrated that in the past 5 to 10 years moving from iron ore into lithium and so on and so forth as prevalence of copper projects and other styles of projects come along, we've been able to leverage our expertise into those as well. Industrial Processes we remain very active in, and I'll talk a little more about that. Of course, rail infrastructure, we remain very active and I'll talk about that in a few slides' time as well. But we've also, as I've noted, we've added the cement industry to the sectors in which we are ideally equipped to participate. So again, SAXUM works for majority of the major cement producers in the world and a lot of the OEMs that service those cement industries. So we believe that their expertise, coupled by our call it, geographic footprint is going to offer some fantastic opportunities to broaden there as well. In Mineral Resources, just an example of the projects and the future projects that we hope to be involved with in some of the major commodities that we're in. In copper, we've obviously completed a number of significant copper projects recently. We're currently working on the Yanqul copper project for Mazoon mining in Oman, and we've kicked off work on the Winu copper project for Rio Tinto, and we're doing some relatively late stage -- late phase studies for First Quantum on the Taca Taca project in Argentina. In gold, of course, gold is at all-time highs, continues to break records in terms of the commodity prices. We've recently completed a number of projects from Endeavour Mining, Sabodala and Lafigué. We're very busy still on Ahafo North for Newmont in Ghana, Kiaka for West Africa in Burkina Faso, Bombore for ore zone in Burkina Faso, Bomboré for Orezone in Burkina Faso, Boto for Managem in Senegal, Koné project, a new one we just kicked off just before Christmas with Montage Gold in Côte d'Ivoire, working with B2Gold and their Goose project in Canada. And on the Horizon or just in the early stages of kicking off, we have Baomahun in – Sierra Leone, Twin Hills in Namibia, Nyanzaga in Tanzania, Tulu Kapi in Ethiopia and the Blackwater Expansion in British Columbia. Then there's a bunch of other, obviously, commodities in which we are involved, lithium and others. We recently completed Kathleen Valley, Goulamina, Langer Heinrich uranium project, the Mozambique Mineral Sands in delivery at the moment. CGP3 for Talison, Highbury Lithium Project in South Africa, FRP project, Platinum palladium in South Africa and the CLAHDO iron ore related project for Rio Tinto here in Western Australia. And on the Horizon, Toliara, it's a very significant project in Madagascar, the Highbury Lithium Expansion and of course CGP4 for Talison, which we hope to be involved with later in the year. In terms of Industrial Processes, the 3 main areas under that banner, energy, pharma & biotech and food & beverage. Really, our Process Industries business remains instrumental in much of energy-related initiatives. We're involved with Yarra Valley Water Bioenergy plant, Green Hydrogen Energy Project in Queensland, Mid-stream Demonstration Plant for Pilbara Minerals as well as a number of battery minerals initiatives. So we remain very busy in that space. Also very busy with a bunch of key clients, including CSL, GSK, Pfizer and the like in pharma and biotech and also very busy in food and beverage. We understand clean facilities. We understand those processes and we've been working in that space for that part of the business for many, many decades, and we retain those capabilities and have been actively working on a bunch of projects in that space. Rail infrastructure, again, the 2 areas that we're active there really is in the Design and Engineering. We seem to be becoming level crossing project specialists. We have a number of those on the moment in excess, I think, of 7 or 8 level crossing related projects that we're actively working on out of our Newcastle office. And then of course, our RIM business, Rail Infrastructure Management business is about half of what we do on the rail infrastructure, and that's going really well, working for lots of clients, Pacific National, ARTCs and the like and expanding -- continuing to expand those services to new clients. In terms of outlook, we see -- sorry, just a second. We see continued strong demand for our services across the business. In resources, really, this is off the back of strong and sustained high gold price and copper price and sustained demand for all minerals required to support the world's economic growth as well as the energy transition. There's some pullback on some of the energy transition initiatives, certainly, but we continue to see a lot of activity and a lot of opportunity in that space, and we remain poised to take advantage of that. We also see continued demand for our expertise in both rail infrastructure and industrial processes businesses. As I said, there's an enormous number of level crossings, just as an example, across Australia. We're seeing expanded demand for our expertise in that area. We're also seeing expanded demand for our MMS, general MMS business, maintenance management system in the rail and construction management area as well. And we expect that our expertise will remain sought after, and we're really well placed to continue to deliver expanded levels of service. So we're very happy with the market in which we're operating. We aren't seeing any shortage of opportunity in any -- across any of our sectors. We really remain ready and able to execute a lot more work. We continue to build across the business, as I've already mentioned and there's nothing really stopping us from doing so. So we're very well placed. So in terms of investing in Lycopodium, we've got an amazing track record. We've been in business this year for 33 years, steadily grown on the back of some fundamental things that haven't changed. We're innovative and value-driven process engineering and project delivery organization that hasn't changed over the years. We have long-standing clients. Many of our clients have been on the journey with us for the last 30 years. We appear to be the engineer of choice. Over 2/3 of our current revenue is from repeat clients, repeat business. We have an exceptional number of lots of exceptional teams to deliver projects and studies across all our offices. We have a very good workforce and a culturally aligned workforce. We -- a number of years, 2 years ago, we established our annual employee engagement survey. We continue to score extremely highly in that survey and improve year-on-year across the business. And we're always looking to the future. We are working with clients in the industry to support the world's decarbonization journey to net zero. We have got a good handle on of involvement with R&D in that space, and we believe it allows us to position ourselves well for the future. We see growing opportunities in new geographies, and we have increased our foothold in those new geographies as well as in our established jurisdictions. So we see that our market continue to grow. And I always say that we don't make the market, but we expect to increase our market share. And so if we're increasing our market, we should see increased growth in the organization. We're a trusted partner in our established markets, and we've now established ourselves in new markets where we can leverage our very good track record. And we continue to focus on delivering a balanced portfolio of projects. We don't ever bet the farm on anything, whether it be a commodity, whether it be a geography, whether it be a client or whether it be something shiny and bright that looks all very exciting, but could lead to a high risk business. We stay balanced and we stay measured in our approach in the way that we deal with our portfolio of projects and contracts we deliver. And we deliver year-on-year. We've delivered year-on-year financially to our shareholders. We've had steady but sustained growth. If you look at us over the last 10 years, certainly, we delivered strong returns from the work that we do, strong NPAT this year, well above that 10% target mark that we tend to target. But we -- at the end of the day, we've done very, very well this half, and we expect to do well this full financial year. Strong earnings per share, strong dividend payout even in light of using our cash to buy SAXUM this time around for the half year, we still delivered $0.10 dividend. So I mean as a value-based organization and one that looks to deliver value to clients and projects and studies and work that we do, we also look to deliver a lot of value to our shareholders and we do so. So I mean we are [indiscernible]. And that's it for the formal presentation. But I would invite any questions that anyone might have. I think there's an ability to ask the questions, and then we will [indiscernible]. I'll hand over to Ashley to questions we might receive.

[Operator Instructions] Your first question is a webcast question from [ Michael Byrne ] and reads, the full year revenue and NPAT guidance implies a meaningful reduction on operating margin in the second half. Can you explain this expectation and to what extent it includes warranty provision assumptions?

Yes, I'm happy to do that. Thank you, Michael, for your question. Look, the second half forecast is as is always the case for first half, second half is really just based on our -- what we expect to see in terms of projects that we're completing, the phases of the projects that we're doing, the work that we're doing during that time and the phase of that work. One thing that, I guess, is a feature of first half, second half, probably for this year is we're doing probably going to have seen a higher level of site services in the first half than we will in the second half. That tends to bring utilization off a little bit, tends to drag a little bit more on profitability or not support the 15% impact if you like, in the first half. We will continue to -- we're in the phase of a project at the moment or a number of projects that we'll continue to see a small increase in provisions, which is the norm as we deliver projects. There's nothing that sounds like anything untoward. It's purely timing of projects, nature of projects and phasing of projects. So I hope that answers your question.

Your next question is from Paul Middleton with Early Action and [indiscernible]. You've given guidance for FY '25, which is welcome, but it's effectively meaningless without some knowledge of the warrant provision. Can we get some idea of what the warranty provision is likely to be in second half '25?

I guess the short answer to that is our guidance includes what we expect to have as warranty provision. So as we see forecasting moving forward, what we have given in terms of NPAT is inclusive of whatever provision we might have to warranty. So I'm not totally sure what is meant by the guidance effectively meaning this.

Your next question is from [ Brandon McCormick ] with [indiscernible] Capital and reads. Can you please clarify the 10% net profit margin aim? Net profit margin has been well above 10% the last 3 years. Are you saying these recent levels have been unsustainable?

No, we -- look, it's not saying that the levels are necessarily unsustainable. We target 10%, our models, our commercial models, our rates up in the way we did our work really targets for the organization to make a 10% NPAT, we think 10% NPAT if we apply and the work that we do is a good return. We try to balance, of course, ensuring that we're not carrying too much risk or putting the business at excessive risk. So we consider it's a good return for effort, if you like. But certainly, when the teams and our teams have been delivering very repetitively successfully and great outcomes, we have been demonstrating to achieve better than that. The other thing to note is that our blend of business at the moment of our portfolio is largely the EPCM basically provision of services for these projects. And within those, certainly, a 10% return is envisaged. If we start seeing a few more EPC style opportunities come to us and -- become available to us and we get executing those, sometimes can deliver higher margins, and that's what we've seen in recent years. So it's really a blend of work, we said we said it openly repeatedly and over time, that our expectations in terms of a target margin [indiscernible] shareholders.

Your next question comes from Frank [indiscernible]. Peter, can you give a thumbnail sketch of the SAXUM balance sheet? What was the net cash net debt at the point of acquisition? Do you anticipate it will have any working capital funding in the short term?

They had no debt at the point of acquisition, and the deal was that they have sufficient working capital which we find, but [indiscernible] will remain in the business. We don't expect to chip anything in. So there's 0 debt. They have operated with 0 debt. So they're analogous to [indiscernible], smaller, obviously. But yes, they've got plenty of cash from a working capital perspective and 0 debt. So Frank, I'm not sure I've answered your question.

We have another question from [ Frank Sellanti ]. This reads, "Can you chat to some projects won in the first half?"

Yes, absolutely. I guess a couple of them, but one of the largest projects won in the first half is the Koné gold project, which we spoke about, Montage Gold. We -- I mean I see us continuing in Côte d'Ivoire. Really fantastic, large-scale project [indiscernible]. So we're very excited about that. We also picked up the commissioning services of the Blackwater expansion -- sorry, the Blackwater project in British Columbia, which bodes well for us with the Blackwater expansion moving forward as Artemis Gold look to sanction that later this year. We picked up in the first half that -- the work with the First Quantum on Taca Taca. We also pick up Namibia in Twin Hills. We'll be on [indiscernible] at this point in time. We've seen our resources in Twin Hills project in Namibia. So yes, off the top of my head, that's a number of them. There's been a significant number of projects that have been secured, quite a few we're working on in terms of same phase, again, which bodes well for our project pipeline moving forward.

Your next question comes from [ Michael Byrne ] and reads, "Can you describe how a company came to be introduced to SAXUM and provide some insights into the extent of the due diligence process leading up to the decision to buy the controlling stake in the business?"

Yes, happy to. We've come across SAXUM actually by chance. We became aware of the business. It's not a business we bid against in the past. Again, we've not done a lot of work in Latin America over the years. We've done some but not a huge amount. We became aware of them. As we started to investigate them on a [ de-stock ] basis, we saw that they were an interesting prospect. We reached out to them, made contact with them, and they were open to having conversations. And this was under a year ago now. And then we actually made the decision to move forward. We saw there was lots of potential synergies, lots of potential opportunities for growth for both SAXUM and Lycopodium. And we decided to structure a deal subject to due diligence. And the due diligence program took about 3 months, a little over 3 months, I guess, maybe a little longer. It was quite detailed. It involved financial, obviously, legal, operational aspects. And it's obviously international, and it involves a number of different jurisdictions. As I've said, they have operations in Argentina and Brazil and also in Australia. So we have to look at those number of jurisdictions, did a due diligence, quite thorough. And when we're satisfied with that, we've since obviously produced documentation around share purchase and shareholding agreements and the like. And it's progressed very, very successfully. So in the meantime, we've also started collaborating operationally. Lots of good things we've seen so far, and we see lots of opportunities. We expect to have the first instance jointly executed, some study work, hopefully some project work maybe this calendar year as well as rolling out some of our existing systems that they are really trying to receive, our HR merging system, our ERP and other things we started to roll out. I think they're working on actually scaling the year on that front.

Your next question comes from [ Louis Hardman ] with Bell Potter. This reads, "To meet FY guidance, you will need $14.8 million of NPAT in H2, which would deliver a margin of 9.1%, below the target 10% NPAT. Can you touch on what's pushing the margin down in H2 and the reasoning behind lowering guidance for the full year?

Yes, I'm happy to talk to that. So one of the things is from where we initially provided guidance at the AGM, we were still in the hunt on a number of Barrick prospects being Lumwana and being Reko Diq large copper opportunities. We're not going to be involved in those 2 opportunities moving forward. We're still working on Reko Diq. We have work to do through almost entire financial year. But certainly, we were, I guess, primed to push ourselves. And given the size of undertaking, we have capacity available, plenty of capacity through this next half. We're seeing our utilization in January is a softer than we would have planned for ahead in Lumwana. So that's the main thing. In any respect, I think it's a great outcome. One of the reasons we're not moving forward with the [indiscernible].

Your next question comes from [ Greg O'Keefe ] with [ Tyco Investments ]. This reads, "Argentina has had a long history of political instability and fiscal irresponsibility. How dependent is SAXUM on government contracts? And is the leadership of the President likely to promote private sector growth and opportunities for SAXUM? And do you have any comment on this morning's share fall price by 10%?"

Sure. Firstly, with regard to Argentina, Argentina is -- it's unquestionable. There's lots of -- it's got more than its share of dysfunction in not just over a year or 2 or a decade or 2. It's been a long time. But it remains undeniable that it has a number of things. One is a highly trained workforce, excellent engineers, excellent professionals at a very, very high value, low cost, high quality. And we -- this enables us the opportunity to a tap into that. A lot of work SAXUM's work is not in Argentina. [indiscernible] historically, it's been through other parts of Latin America into the U.S. and globally, particularly cement industry. So for us, it's another value engineering center. It's another access to a new market. It's not hugely reliant on President Milei's policies, transforming Argentina into some resource mecca. We hope to be able to participate in a renewed and enhanced Argentinian market and a market again that we've done almost nothing in historically. But certainly, it's a foothold for us in broader Latin America, Central America and even to Mexico and the U.S. where they're already active [indiscernible]. So we're not relying on Argentina, and we are certainly reliant on a fantastic Argentinian workforce in offices in Tucumán and Buenos Aires. this gives us fantastic opportunity to leverage these very smart people and [indiscernible]. I think the question is on [indiscernible]. It's very disappointing, and for one reason only. One reason only is [indiscernible] price-earnings multiple at a relatively low price. And compared to some of our peers, it's exceptionally high-quality business, long track record with a very strong balance sheet with people second-guessing how we're going to act and how we're going to behave in the way that we deliver our business and our results to our shareholders. So to not see that reflected in the share price is very disappointing, but all I'd say it's probably a good opportunity for anyone who is interested to get in based on what we've seen in terms of guidance. Again, if you just compare it to people [indiscernible] at the moment, our share price is, at the multiple, half it is. So it's quite incredible, really. Disappointing, but we'll keep chipping on. And we have certain strategies and ideas to try and improve the market appreciation for Lycopodium. But we focus on improving the outcome in terms of business, and we'll see that.

Your next question comes from [ Michael Hollowand ], and reads, "Can you comment a little about your experience working with SAXUM? Example, values and culture alignment. Do you expect to be cross-staffing on projects in the near term?

Yes. So from a culture perspective, that was fundamental to us to move forward. We spent a lot of time -- I actually spent a lot of time with their leadership team. We brought the leadership team across here in Perth. And we really wanted to take the time to understand the organization to make sure it wasn't a company [indiscernible] Lycopodium, and we're pleased to see that it's [indiscernible] renowned world-class structural engineer. Lycopodium [indiscernible] engineering and technical delivery as primary to what we need to do for our clients. He and his organization reflects that as well as being very client focused, and as I said, taking very serious projects and studies and also the staff and the way they treat their staff and the like. So from a culture perspective, it's very important for us to establish alignment, and I'm very happy to say there wasn't any further with that. We're already starting to talk about -- we're actually collaborating. You've seen we're already in collaboration on some of our undertakings, particularly with the Latin America's teams. We're working [indiscernible] provide services for them, so it's early days [indiscernible]. Probably $150,000 max, $200,000.

Your next question comes from [ Michael Byrne ] and reads, "One of your South African-based competitors, which had a quite short listed life in Australia until recently, some years ago, embarked on an aggressive acquisition program that ended rather unsatisfactorily for the company's shareholders. Can you provide some assurances that our company has safeguards at Board level to prevent similar misfortune?

We're very satisfied. I don't know what you're talking about, honestly, but we're very satisfied on what we've achieved, focusing on what we do and how we do it. We're not a naturally acquisitive company. We're not about throwing or buying, acquiring for the sake of growth. We are about having a balance between organic growth and acquisition where acquisition makes sense. But quite amazingly, the number of times that I see somebody, organizations that announce that they're looking into an acquisition. They've entered into initial agreement. And then 3 weeks later, they finalized [indiscernible] takes a long time and we take our time to make sure that we are absolutely satisfied and the Board of the organization Lycopodium is -- we're all on the same [indiscernible] in that respect. We want to make sure that we taking a very positive step because apart from the amount that we pay [indiscernible] appropriate in terms of size of acquisition for our balance sheet and for our organization. But we also [indiscernible] our reputation. We want to make sure that we're doing things that we have basis for having a high level of maturity and a high level of confidence that will lead to a successful outcome. Acquisitions are very difficult [indiscernible]. Acquisitions are difficult. We need to make sure that we go into [indiscernible], and I believe we've done that. We didn't outsource any of our DD. We've got it done internally and some support from local council in various jurisdictions, obviously, and some advice from local expertise. But we did the DD ourselves [indiscernible] on the business. So look, I'm very confident. As I said in my presentation, I think that this acquisition is going to be a transformation for us. It's going to be a transformation for SAXUM. But for us, I think it sums up a market that often you don't get an opportunity to bid on work unless you've got some capability on the ground, and this is capability on the ground, a lot of [indiscernible].

Your next question comes from [ Victor Belkoff ] and reads, "With the new acquisition, can you elaborate on the cement opportunity you see globally?"

Yes, I'm happy to. SAXUM historically has done almost nothing in Africa, a little bit, not a lot. So obviously, stands to reason that our geographic presence in a lot of Africa should provide SAXUM with opportunities to see expansion in the natural cement market. SAXUM works with all the names -- all the big names in cement across the world, European cement companies, American cement companies, Asian cement companies. And again, just our ability to support them and then their ability to leverage our sort of geographic footprint, I think, is going to provide them just the natural ability to grow and to reach new markets. Again, this is [ slowing down ] North America for Lycopodium. The globe has opened up a little bit more for SAXUM from a [indiscernible] perspective. In Lycopodium, we're not [indiscernible]. A lot of similarities in some of the processes we deploy, processing plants, cement plants, cement special for us, broadening of our internal skill set. So we [indiscernible].

Thank you. There are no further questions at this time. I'll now hand back to Mr. De Leo for closing remarks.

Firstly, thank you to all of you that asked questions. I'm delighted to answer questions and be able to address any shareholder queries. And as always, if you have any, please feel free to reach out to myself or to Justine Campbell, our CFO; and Rod Leonard, our Chairman, to answer your questions. Thank you for listening, and thank you for participating in this morning's call. We're very excited about the future for our company. We have -- you know us. We're quite measured in what we do and how we do it. And we hope that at the end of the day it's going to deliver long-term benefits to our shareholders. And we are very confident of that as well. So thank you very much for listening in, and good day.

That does conclude our conference for today. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.