MAAS Group Holdings Limited (MGH) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Maas Group Holdings First Half '25 Results Briefing. [Operator Instructions] I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Tim Smart. Please go ahead.

Good morning, everybody. It's Tim Smart here, Head of Corporate Strategy and Investor Relations for Maas. Welcome to our first half '25 results. We appreciate your interest. I realize it's a very busy day of other results, and we look forward to seeing and speaking to many of you in the coming days post this presentation. Without further ado, I'm going to hand it over to our CEO and Managing Director, Wes Maas. Over to you, Wes.

Thanks, Tim. Good morning, and welcome, everyone, to our first half '25 results presentation. In terms of the agenda, I'll go through the first 2 sections and then hand over to our CFO, Craig Bellamy, who will go through the group level consolidated financials, after which I'll wrap up and be sure to leave ample time for questions and answers. Moving to Slide 3. Our overarching aim is to compound capital, delivering attractive returns through the cycle. We've been doing this now for over 20 years. And since FY '20 through to this year, using the midpoint of our guidance, we've delivered an EBITDA CAGR of 29%. Throughout our history, while growth has been strong, it has not been linear. Indeed, we invariably go through periods of consolidation and then step changes in our growth. We invest for the long term, and our success is a function of our disciplined investment framework and underpinned by our strategic fundamentals, namely an asset base, which we continue to invest in that is directly exposed to the key renewable energy and infrastructure projects, which have long-term tailwinds despite some near-term challenges. We have a highly aligned and incentivized founder-led focused team, and we're focused on being the lowest cost provider in each end market. We have a successful track record of organic growth and accretive acquisitions, complemented by prudent capital allocation. Moving to Slide 4. Our values-driven culture is the foundation for our success and growth and is a true differentiator. An important focus for us as we complete recent construction materials acquisitions is ensuring alignment with our new businesses and the team members not only understand our values but embrace them. Having just last week held our last quarterly business review and Strategy Day, where a number of our staff from the newly acquired businesses attended, I'm encouraged that this is very much the case. Moving to Slide 5. The outlook for infrastructure and renewable energy development across the East Coast remains very strong, and we continue to expand our footprint to be well positioned to benefit from this. Our recently completed acquisitions add 2 new hubs in Wollongong with Cleary Brothers and in Canberra with the Capital Asphalt business. Both of these acquisitions open up new and exciting hubs for the group. Moving to Slide 6, as well as opening up 2 new hubs in Wollongong and Canberra, the acquisition of Erroite further strengthens our Greater Melbourne footprint, providing quality, long-life hard rock quarry reserves on a freehold property of more than 380 hectares. This is well situated to supply the Western growth corridor in the Greater Melbourne market. Our integrated Greater Melbourne business now incorporates 5 hard rock quarries, 1 sand quarry and 9 concrete plants and is situated in those outer ring growth corridors. Notwithstanding the soft macro environment, which is well documented, we are well positioned. Our businesses are well located and have proportionately greater exposure to infrastructure, commercial and industrial end markets, lessening the impact from the residential slowdown. We have also acquired these businesses in the prevailing soft macro environment already reflected in our acquisition earnings and the multiples. Our quarry-led strategy provides organic growth opportunities as we optimize supply to downstream operations in a market that is supply constrained. Moving to Slide 7 and turning to our construction materials strategy and status of our previously announced acquisitions, reiterating that we are a quarry-led strategy, where our primary focus is to acquire and develop upstream quarry assets and integrate with our downstream businesses to maximize overall throughput and returns. I'm pleased to announce that we've been able to complete the announced acquisitions slightly ahead of schedule with all 3 businesses now settled. Transition plans are progressing well, and these business will not only contribute to the second half '25, but also provide an exciting step change in growth for the same business for '26 and beyond. Moving to Slide 8 in the first half of our financial highlights. We produced $95 million EBITDA, which was in line with the guidance and continued construction materials growth, offsetting project headwinds impacting the civil construction and hire business. Construction Materials EBITDA of $45 million, representing 24% growth on the prior corresponding period, and CM is now comfortably the largest contributor to our overall earnings. Capital recycling of $90.7 million exceeded our targets and sales were made in excess of book value with $11.2 million in previously stated previous period fair value gains crystallized and again, demonstrating the validity and indeed the conservatism of our fair value adjustments. Our leverage ratio at 2.2 is at the lower end of our targeted range, reflecting the strong capital position we have. Importantly and pleasingly, our main safety indicator, our LTIFR, reduced to 3.1, which is a great achievement as we integrated new businesses and our safety initiatives. Moving to Slide 9 and the outlook. Guidance for FY '25, inclusive of the acquisitions is underlying EBITDA in the range of $215 million to $245 million. Some of the factors affecting the FY '25 guidance and the outlook include acquisitions are expected to contribute in the second half in the range of $10 million to $12 million. Construction materials growth to continue to be underpinned by volume growth and ongoing integration benefits. The expectation that delayed renewable procurement time lines will continue improve momentum, which will be likely seen late in the second half '25 and will roll into FY '26. Expectation that residential settlements will be in the range of $150 to $180 million, including some build-to-rent sales. Approvals to enable the residential and Globo sales are achieved and an expectation that fair value gains are recognized on investment properties will be consistent with FY '24. Moving to Slide 10. In terms of factors underpinning growth beyond FY '25, they include full year contributions from the recently acquired acquisitions of Capral Asphalt, Cleary Brothers and Aerolite, including growth expected from the identified synergies. Construction materials growth overall to continue and dominance in terms of its earnings contribution to increase. Delayed renewable energy projects expected to come online, the establishment of our Aerolite in Rockhampton to capture demand stimulated by interest rate cuts in a highly supply-constrained environment. Easing rate cycle expected to provide impetus for strong residential settlement growth. In terms of our key priorities that we're focused on, integration of our construction materials acquisitions and execution of their transition plans, increasing our secured pipeline of work in the CC&H division and identification of the opportunities to increase the plant utilization rates over the coming periods. Continued execution of our capital recycling initiatives to achieve more than $100 million in FY '25 proceeds and a continued focus and implementation of our safety initiatives, including rolling out in the newly acquired businesses to sustain improved trajectory. Moving to Slide 11. The safety of our people is our highest priority. We are pleased to see that our lost time injury frequency rate has declined to 3.1 from 4.3, something we're extremely proud of. We have worked hard to institute safety initiatives across all of our businesses, and it is a testament to the leaders at the operation level that even the new business being integrated, we've been able to make solid progress and improvement. Moving to Slide 12. We're committed to operating in a sustainable way, recognize the importance and the role we play in reducing environmental and climate-related impacts. There are a number of initiatives underway across our business that target reducing environmental impact. In a number of cases, we're also generating positive financial outcomes. As a company, we understand the increasing expectations around sustainability, and we're committed to developing a road map to meeting and exceeding sustainability reporting requirements. Moving to Slide 13 and moving on to our individual business units, operating in the Industrial and Real Estate segments. You can see here the respective EBITDA contributions with Construction Materials now easily the largest contributor at 42% of group EBITDA. With new acquisitions to contribute and grow from the second half '25. Construction Materials is expected to grow in proportionate importance to the group earnings as we move forward. Moving now to Slide 14 and turning specifically to the Construction Materials business and the first half '25 result. Construction Materials delivered solid growth with EBITDA up 24% on previous year, driven mainly by strong contributions from the businesses acquired in FY '24. Existing quarry business achieved higher margins through sales volume growth and cost of production reductions. Overall, Construction Materials margins decreased very slightly on the first half '24, driven by a higher contribution of lower-margin revenue from concrete and asphalt and spray deal. Note that the pie chart and associated percentages relate to the growth segment sales, which incorporate intra segment sales such as internal sales from the quarry products to our downstream concrete operations. The growth segment revenues and associated product percentages give more accurate representations of the relative growth and contribution of the different products. In terms of the outlook, overall construction activity remains relatively soft and less conducive to ongoing price rises. We continue to identify significant opportunities from infrastructure and renewable energy zone-related projects. Acquisitions made this year have significantly strengthened our Greater Melbourne network, and there remains substantial opportunity to integrate and optimize across the divisions to further enhance margins and returns. Our recently completed acquisitions create exciting growth opportunities with new hubs of Wollongong through Cleary Brothers and the access to the Sydney market from there and also Canberra through Capital Asheville. Moving now to Slide 16. and zooming out for a moment, it is worth reflecting that we've managed to build in the Construction Materials segment since listing. We focused our capital in a disciplined way to expand the footprint and capability of the business to generate well over $100 million in EBITDA as a run rate. The most recent acquisitions further strengthen our position as well as establishing new opportunities for growth. 2024 was a year when attractive long-term fundamentals in this segment were recognized by foreign operators who have significantly increased their presence here through acquisitions and valuations much higher than where we've been able to acquire our assets. The entry and expansion by foreign operators not only validates our strategy at attractive multiples that we've been -- showing the attractive multiples that we've been able to acquire at, but also further consolidates the market with greater rationality in competitive behavior, and we believe this to be a longer-term norm. Moving to Slide 17 and turning to our other industrial operating business, civil construction and hire. Since listing, our civil construction and hire business has grown strongly. And as previously mentioned, we've strategically aligned the business towards renewable energy opportunities. This has been a successful strategy, and I remain confident that moving forward, it will remain very strong. As I will discuss in greater detail in the coming few slides, the combination of projects rolling off and delays in some of these expected projects have contributed to the result. The Central West RES is the first of the RES projects to commence. And pleasingly, the early works packages associated with the project have now commenced, and we will see some benefits from this through the second half '25 and into FY '26. There is less visibility on a number of other delayed projects with a reasonably likelihood that they commence later in second half '25, providing a partial contribution to FY '25, but a stronger run rate heading into FY '26. This is reflected in our updated guidance. Beyond the short-term challenges, there remains a very large pipeline of work in our regions that we're well positioned to capture, and I remain very confident in the people, process and plant that we have to execute on this. Moving to Slide 19. Given the impact of the project delays in the civil construction and hire segment and the overall result, I want to provide some more project detail to the extent that I'm able to. The nature of the generational energy transition is that there are obstacles and challenges arise that are unforeseen and need to be overcome. Procurement times for early works packages associated with the renewable energy projects have taken longer than expected with the Central West Orana RES being the first of the RES to be approved and developed. Many of the issues arising and being resolved are for the first time. Precedents will be set for future projects, and there's a reasonable expectation that lessons will be helpful in reducing unforeseen delays in the future. In terms of the factors impacting on the civil construction and higher EBITDA reduction for the first half '25 include whilst not an exhaustive list, we will call out 4 projects, 3 in the Central West New South Wales and 1 in Central Queensland, where they're expected to have meaningful contributions in the first half '25, but were delayed. Early works packages associated with the largest of all the projects, the Central West Orana RES were deferred, but have now commenced and are scaling up over the course of the second half '25 with significant further packages expected to contribute in FY '26 and beyond. In terms of the works packages and associated other projects, they remain at various stages of progression, but with some uncertainty still on their commencement. Additional to the project delays impact, we have also had 2 unexpected losses in the period. These projects have now completed, so there will be no further losses that have negatively impacted on the first half result. Moving to Slide 20. Pleasingly, early works packages for the Central West Orana RES have now commenced and will contribute to the second half '25 and beyond. Civil construction in Ohio is well positioned for a number of large renewable projects that are expected to commence over the course of 2025. The delays in procurement and contribution is now likely in late second half '25 and move into FY '26. As you can see here by the latest macro monitor renewable energy forecast charts, the outlook and opportunity in the regions we operate remains enormous. We have the capability in terms of quality people, disciplined processes and extensive fleet of plant and equipment, which -- and we remain excited about the future in spite of the near-term challenges that we have encountered. It is also worth pointing out that in our Queensland Civil business through our Swartz brand and Amcor businesses, we have significant existing work in traditional energy generation should there be a shift in the energy policy. Moving now to Slide 21. As I mentioned, the Central West Orana RES renewable energy zone is the first of the renewable energy zones to be approved and associated early works have now commenced. With a total project value of in excess of $20.2 billion, it will initially deliver 4.5 gigawatts with capacity planned to increase to 6 by 2038. The project covers an overall area of 20,000 square kilometers, very much in our backyard and associated transmission lines will facilitate the connection of wind, solar and battery generation projects to the grid. Energy Co, the New South Wales government is the infrastructure owner with the D&C head contractor being ACES, the joint venture between Asana and Cobra. Not only are we well positioned through plant hirings in our civil business, but also the electrical work and the pull-through from our quarries and concrete businesses, which are strategically located in the region. As progress on the Central West Orana RES occurs, momentum for associated wind, solar and battery generation projects are also expected to build. Moving now to Slide 22 and on to our residential real estate business. EBITDA, excluding fair value gain decreased by 38%, driven by an global sale in the first half '24, contributing 60% of the first half '24 EBITDA, which did not repeat itself in this half. Pleasingly, the business settled 90 lots in first half '25, including the disposal of 29 build-to-rent properties, up from 38 in the first half '24. We generally guide for land gross profit per lot at around $100,000. And indeed, for the first half, it was $102,000 per lot, driven by a state and product sales mix with overall pricing remaining stable. Home construction margins improved in the first half '25, driven by disciplined cost control. While still subdued, the market outlook is improving and Tuesday's long-awaited start of an easing rate cycle should provide positive impetus. With 88% of our FY '25 target settlements achieving, we have strong visibility in terms of overall settlement targets. We will continue to focus on our master planned community strategy, which includes the development of the Elia estate in the Rockhampton market with Stage 1 sales beginning now and with settlement moving into FY '26. Moving on to Slide 24 and our commercial real estate business. While revenue decreased marginally, EBITDA increased by 91%, while the increase in fair value gain on investment properties. EBITDA increased by 28% gain on sale of surplus land parcel -- the segment achieved proceeds on sale of developments of $74.5 million in the first half '25 as part of the group's recycling capital program, which were in excess of book value, providing validation for fair value gains recognized previously. In terms of the outlook, we will continue to focus on self-storage, childcare and industrial assets, and we've identified further assets for sale, which see a reduction in overall capital employed. I will now pass over to our CFO, Craig Bellamy, to go through the group financial performance. Thank you.

Thanks, Wes, and good morning, everyone. Starting on Slide 27 with the group underlying performance for the half. And as Wes has already noted, the EBITDA for the period of $95 million was in line with the guidance, driven by increases in construction materials and commercial real estate, offsetting the softer environment in the Civil construction and high segment. Revenue for the half was flat in comparison to the prior corresponding period with the strong increases achieved in construction materials being offset by performance in civil construction and hire due to the project delays already touched upon. Our EBITDA margin for the period of 21% was flat with the prior period and excluding fair value gains was 16%, which compares to 19% for the prior period, once again, the decrease driven through the performance of civil construction and hire. Other income for the period totaled $23.6 million, with the largest contributors being the fair value changes for the commercial property of $20.4 million, profit on the sale of assets and investment properties of $2 million and the fair value changes on the residential build-to-rent portfolio of $600,000. Looking at the group expenses and the group has continued our strong focus on cost management across the business. Overall expenses for the group increased by 3% for the period with the vast majority of the increase attributable to a full 6 months contribution for the businesses previously acquired in FY '24. The existing business saw a reduction in expenses largely in line through the decrease in the CCH segment turnover, namely civil projects. The group also took up a $2.1 million increase in expected credit losses during the period. Depreciation for the period increased by $5.4 million to $27 million, driven largely by the full period's depreciation of the construction material businesses acquired during the second half of '24. And our amortization has decreased to $3 million for the 6 months, mainly due to the unwind of amortization of customer contracts previously recognized under AASB 3. Turning to Slide 29 and looking at the group's underlying cash flow. Our operating cash flow for the period was approximately $60 million with a cash flow conversion rate achieved for the period of 81%, which is consistent with prior periods and sits within our target range of between 80% to 100%. There was a net increase in land with $22 million invested into development during the period compared to $11.7 million in the prior period, noting that approximately 50% of the spend in the first half of '25 was at our Tweed Heads property, which is now classified as an investment property at balance date and will no longer be shown in the operating cash flows going forward. Taking a closer look at the underlying cash flows by segment. You can see that civil construction and hire, construction materials and commercial real estate achieved cash flow conversion rates in the range of 81% to 122% for the period, driven by prudent working capital management. Turning to Slide 31 and looking at the capital investments. We have maintained a disciplined and prudent approach with respect to capital management and investment for the period. Our capital investments for the period comprised the acquisition of a 75% interest in Capital Asphalt, which occurred in December, the acquisition and development of commercial property and investment into growth CapEx in both the Civil construction Hire and Construction Materials segment. As can be seen from the table, we realized close to $75 million in sales from investment properties, which combined with the proceeds from the sale of surplus land, we achieved -- we realized $90 million in proceeds, and we'll continue to focus on further opportunities during the second half. Our maintenance CapEx for the period was $10 million with our net PP&E spend at $8.1 million for the half. Looking at Slide 32 and our capital management. The company continues to have a disciplined approach with respect to its capital management program. During the period, we completed a capital raise, a syndicated refinance of our debt facilities, increasing our facility limit as well as the size of our banking group. In addition, we incorporated an accordion facility to provide additional debt capacity in the future. As of year-end, we had approximately $440 million of liquidity post the acquisition of Capital Asphalt. Our leverage ratio at the end of the period was 2.2x, which sits at the low end of our target range of 2 to 3x with approximately 20% of the debt being fixed. We also declared an interim dividend fully franked at $0.035 per share, and our share buyback program remains active where applicable. Looking at the group's balance sheet on Slide 33, and the balance sheet continues to remain strong and heavily asset backed with $1.6 billion in total assets and $1.4 billion in total tangible assets. As discussed, our main investment for the period has been the acquisition of the Capital Asphalt business. Before handing back to Wes, looking at Slide 34 and our capital employed. The capital employed at the end of the period was approximately $1.35 billion. The return on capital for the period of 10% was down on the prior corresponding period, largely driven by performance of civil construction and hire and the timing of the residential and Glovo sale in the first half of '24. Our commercial real estate business has seen an improvement in its return on capital, largely driven through the capital recycling already discussed. And our expectation is that our return on capital will continue to improve across the group for the balance of FY '25. Thank you, everyone, and I'll now hand back to Wes.

Thanks, Craig. So to summarize the key messages, first half '25 EBITDA of $95 million was in line with guidance, driven by strong construction materials contribution. The guidance for FY '25 of $215 million to $245 million is inclusive of the acquisitions. Construction Materials continues to deliver strong growth and the successful completion of the 3 acquisitions ahead of schedule provides a step change in growth with new hubs in Canberra and Wollongong established. Capital recycling proceeds of $90.7 million exceeded target and was above book value with more to come. Beyond the near-term delays, the outlook and opportunities from the transmission and renewable energy projects remain substantial. In concluding, I remain excited by the growth opportunities, and I'm confident in our ability to capture them. We have never been in a better position in terms of quality of assets and people from which to execute these. My confidence in the business and its outlook is reflected in my participation in the recent capital raise. Subject to the EGM approval next week, I'll take up my $25 million allotment of stock at the $4.65 issue price. I'll also highlight the participation of the other directors as well on the same terms as a signal of their confidence in the business and alignment with shareholders. I appreciate your interest in our company, and that concludes our formal presentation. I'll now open up for questions.

[Operator Instructions] Thank you. Your first question comes from Mitchell Sonogan from Macquarie.

Can you hear me alright?

Yes.

Just firstly, on construction materials. You obviously talked about a bit of a softer overall construction market there, making it less conducive to price rises. Can you maybe just give a little bit more color on how you're seeing overall demand in SM across the different geographic regions? And maybe just a bit of an update on how you're seeing the competitive landscape as well?

We would say it's still -- it's a strong market. It's not a weakening market across our different areas. We see significant upside opportunity in volume out of the Queensland market, which is relative to the Rockhampton and that Central Queensland growth, it's a very strong market at this minute. In New South Wales, we would say it's moderate to up. In Victoria, we would say at this minute, volumes are probably flat. And then the recent acquisition of [ Cleary ], we see it's a very strong market and significant opportunity there to expand. If I go back to the Melbourne market, with the recent acquisition of Aerolite, and we're still integrating the various businesses we have together. So I think there's upside opportunity for us. And then with the easing of the interest rate cycle, we expect over the coming years that we will see quite a bit of upside and also the supply constraint. So we're extremely happy with what we've acquired and the network that we've built in that market. As far as the general overall landscape, there has been a lot of consolidation in the market in all markets. And we've seen the multinationals and also the Australian businesses consolidate some of those markets. So we see it's quite rational.

And just jumping on to civil construction high. You've obviously put in a fair bit of detail on the renewables. Just on the Central West Orana RES there, you've said there's some early works packages kicking off at the moment. Do you mind just maybe giving a bit more color on just how you're seeing activity there, but also, I guess, some of the other big projects that you thought might be coming down the pipeline in the next couple of years? Just any sort of updates on how you're seeing progress.

Yes. Obviously, it's well documented from us that we've seen a number of delays. I would say we're more than 6 months behind on some of those projects just from a start date, but they are starting now. It's slower than anticipated, but we expect it to gather momentum from this point forward. On the RES is the enabler. So that's run by Energy Cower, the joint venture that's in place to operate. And off the back of that is the private proponents that run and operate and own the wind, solar and battery projects. So we expect it to materially increase over the coming periods.

Your next question comes from James Ferrier from Wilsons Advisory.

Could I ask you, first of all, about the return on capital in the construction materials business? So Slide 34 is probably the reference point there, 12% in the PCP, 10% this period. Can you just talk a bit about sort of where you see the trends that are influencing that current result and where you see it trending? I appreciate you've got a medium-term target there a longer-term target, but where you see it trending over the next 12 months and the drivers?

Obviously, when you capture half by half, it distorts it a little bit because of the contribution is our asphalt and steel business materially increases in the second half, which will naturally increase. But we also say that every business that we acquire, it's probably got a 2- to 3-year maturity. So if we sat as a static portfolio, we would expect it to significantly increase over a 2- to 3-year period. And then from there, it would organically or slowly increase just in line with general markets. But in that first 2 to 3 years, we envisage that we would materially increase to take it up to a mature or forecasted level.

Yes. Okay. And to what extent did the delayed project activity in the CCH impact any of the expected volumes coming through from CM?

It would contribute in that. I don't have an exact number, James, so I would be giving you a bit of an estimate. I would say, in the 10% to 15% range that we could have had more volumes. And that's primarily around the New South Wales and Queensland business rather than the Victoria.

Yes. And that's quarry content versus concrete or something else, that's probably your higher-margin product?

Predominantly quarry. Yes, like quarry is our main driver, and it is the largest margin.

Yes. No, that's helpful, Wes. And then on the CCH business, I think obviously, you've had some delays with projects sort of rolling off and then commencement. But when we look at the guidance that you have -- the earnings guidance you have for FY '25 now. I'm interested in your views of where the implied asset utilization is for the CCH segment in the second half based on that guidance relative to where that utilization performance was back in FY '24?

So in FY '24, it would have been in the 70% to 80% range. In the first half, it would be in the 50% to 60% range. We expect to exit FY '25 in the above 80%...

Yes. And just, I guess, on...

James, the allocation of the assets is a pretty good measure too with the delays in the projects. There's a lot of the fleet allocated for these projects, which we know they're coming. So that's why the utilization is down a little bit because you can't go and allocate that fleet out of the projects that are about to start also. So that leads to a bit of the swipe in the utilization rate.

Yes. No, that's helpful color. And then lastly, just on commercial real estate. What's your view on the cadence here of capital recycling versus commercial land acquisitions? Do you see this segment as a net cash flow neutral type trajectory? Or is it more like a net inflow over the next year or 2?

It would be neutral to inflow. It wouldn't be -- it won't be increased, but yes, neutral to inflow. It's -- we're not actively driving higher or driving more capital into that segment. But I mean, from half to half, it will just get a little bit distorted. If you looked at it on a 3-year chart, it would be neutral to inflow.

Your next question comes from Liam Schofield from Morgan.

Just a quick question on Slide 16. You've just got that track record from construction materials growth. And then you've just got those 3 boxes there talking about the elements. Can you sort of distill to us what organic growth versus acquisition growth look like for the -- I suppose, for the first half and for FY '25? How do we think about that split between organic and acquired growth?

First half, Liam, small organic growth in the construction materials space, expected to improve during the second half.

Yes. Single digits. Is that sort of what you think...

Yes, Mark.

Yes. Okay. No worries. And just on regional resi markets, there have been some sort of anecdotal reports of improvements. What are you guys seeing there? And then maybe just sort of draw the distinction between Central New South Wales and regional Queensland.

Yes. We definitely are seeing a positive inquiry, and we're hopeful that it turns to positive conversion. We recently, 2 weeks ago, released our lighter estate in Rockhampton and significant response. So we're quietly optimistic that FY '26 and beyond, we would do significant -- we will hit our targets in our sales there over time. It's probably too early. I think the positive inquiry has been since they came back from Christmas rather than what happened on Tuesday... Yes.

[Operator Instructions] There are no further questions at this time. I'll now hand back to Mr. Maas for closing remarks.

Thank you. Just to summarize those key messages again, we're extremely positive on the outlook. We remain very excited about the growth opportunities and the long-term opportunity with the asset-backed business and founder-led align team. Thank you, everyone, for your interest, and that concludes our presentation today. Thanks, everyone.

Thank you. Thank you.

That does conclude our conference for today. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.