Mahindra & Mahindra Limited (MM) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Okay. Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to M&M EVD event. Thank you for taking your time and being here. We had these 2 events M&M Born EV vision strategy unveiled in London on August 15th and XUV400 unveiled on September 8th. And we have been getting a lot of questions from many of you to understand wanting to understand more about the strategy, clarifications on what we have presented, et cetera. So we thought that it would be a good opportunity to combine these 2. And then we have this investor event today in Bombay. Also, I'm sure all of you have seen the XUV400 product, and those who have just joined us can see that after the event. And today, we have the senior management with us today. Mr. Rajesh Jejurikar, Executive Director, Mr. Veejay Nakra, President, Automotive division; Manoj Bhat Espana Group CFO; Mr. Pratap Bose, Chief Design Officer, AFS; Mr. Veluswamy, President, Automotive and Technology and Product Development; Rajeel Goyal, CFO, AFS; and also we have some of senior AFS in office is connected with the EV. So I welcome all of the entire senior management to take time and being here. Welcome to that. And we'll have 2 sessions, we'll have a presentation followed by Q&A. The presentation first, we will cover the bond EV strategy. We will have Veejay to talk about 2 brand strategy. Then we will have Pratap to talk about the design aspects, and then we'll have Vero talking about the technology aspects of the products. And then we will follow that with the XUV400 , which will be covered by Veejay and Velu-- we -- then we'll have a Q&A. Rajesh would moderate that Q&A. With that, I welcome Veejay to start there.

Thanks, Sriram. I was expecting Rajesh to come up and say a few words and welcome all of you all, which I'm sure he will do when he comes up for his Q&A. So a very good afternoon. A lot of excitement around the whole EV narrative from Mahindra and very glad that today we will share that with all of you all, walk you through the narrative, the strategy, the product, the platform, the brand -- and everything that's going behind what we believe will create a very strong EV strategy and delivery going forward. One of the things you may have picked up by now whether we talk about the event that happened in London or whether the recent launch of the 400, you see we are talking about double 00. Now we are going to talk about 00. And one of the things you will see that what we are communicating with the world at large is not just a vision. It's actually talking about detailing of the strategy, including a lot more at this stage about what the product will deliver, specifications, partnerships. And I'm sure you will have questions around that, and we'll talk more about it. I use this Anyway -- no changing that-- anyway no worries-- my [indiscernible] slides up. From about April 2020, we've been talking to you all at multiple forums -- at multiple forums, we've been talking to you all about our strategy of staying true to who we are, staying true to our core of being an SUV player. And I think the last 2.5 years, you all would agree. You all will agree that the whole journey that we've been talking about saying true to who we are as an SUV player has been a story of brand transformation. So whether it's the brands that we've created in the last 2.5 years, whether it's the launches that we've done or whether it's the kind of customers that we brought to the house of Mahindra. It's been a transformation journey in the last 2.5 years. And any brand typically is known or gets recognized for the change or transformation only when the customers say so. We can stand here and say everything that we want. But when customers talk about it, when you bring in new customers who come in and walk into the showroom and say, "I want to own this brand. I have the pride of owning this brand. I want to experience it and use it. That's when you measure success, and that's how you know that you've -- you are on the right path of transformation. And I think this slide, we've kind of tried to summarize and capture that that from being known as a brand that makes tough rugged off-roading adventure products. Today, we are brands are aspirational. They are owned and bought by millennials. They are owned and bought by people who want -- who currently do own multinational premium German, American, Japanese brands. So as a strategy, the transformation seems to be moving in the right direction, and we have a host of new customers who own the Mahindra brand or the nameplate. Now as we move forward, clearly, we've also been saying that electric is key to what we will do in the future, and it is a part of our purpose statement. Clearly, having made this transformation and given it the twin peaks as a brand, bringing in new customers into the fold of Mahindra. We clearly saw an opportunity of a 2-brand strategy when it came to EVs. It was time for us to now bring sports into the EV category into the SUV category. And what better way of doing that than manifesting it by taking the current Twin Peaks brand of us, which is where we house a lot of our iconic strong brands like Scorpio, Thar, Bolero, XUV, et cetera. And then understanding and realizing that in the EV space, there is an opportunity of a full new design language, an opportunity to bring in a whole new set of customers, a brand that would stand for taking the core from Mahindra as a band and building on that. And hence, we created 2 strong pillars of nameplates or brands, the twin peaks as well as the Bs. And I think this slide, in a sense summarizes that the Twin Peaks will honor the legacy of who we are while embracing the future for those who have the passion to live life beyond boundaries while making a difference, authentic, yet futuristic. And then at the same time, as you know, we spoke about B as a brand B, which is about opening new spaces to a completely reimagined world. For those who want to define their lights journey and b, who they want to be. And I think the key words is audacious over here and trailblazer. So it takes and builds on who we are and allows us to create 2 very, very strong nameplates in the portfolio. And of course, under each one of them, we have a series of products that we already kind of spoken and put out there in terms of what we will bring. And the entire philosophy of design, brand architecture product behind them and how well they will complement each other at the marketplace. So I understand a little bit more around that, I'm going to ask Pratap come in, who spent a lot of time contemplating and thinking that why we want to create these 2 strong brands in the portfolio, how do we ensure that we minimize cannibalization? How do we ensure that we make both of them equally strong and powerful. So with that, let me call Pratap. Pratap over to you.

Thanks, Veejay. Hi, everyone. I hope the lunch hasn't made you too sleepy. It's quite an exciting day. The good thing is that all of this is really fresh, 15th August and then 8th and 9th of September, just 3 days ago. And this is part of that -- our unveil of the electric vehicle strategy, story and implementation. So how do you get an organization to be ready for the future? One of the most important things are, of course, the people. You have to have the right people in the right places to be able to do this or deliver on this ambition. And that means a complete sort of re-look at every part of our business. And since I'm from design, I looked at design capability as my specific focus area to be able to handle or approach and even define the future. That's very important. Now as you know, we have a design studio right here in Mumbai, in Kandivali. We're expanding that as well. We are growing that in terms of physical space in terms of team size, in terms of capability and capacity. So that's sort of 2-pronged. We're getting into areas of design, which we earlier didn't do. So for example, human interface design or HMI design. These are some new areas we are opening up. We had, of course, also as a group partner company Pininfarina in Turin, we have used them on multiple projects on a project basis. And then just as recently as last year, we established MADE in the U.K. And we formally opened its new premises as Veejay alluded on the 15th of August. Now all these 3 studios, the 2 in-house ones and Pininfarina are completely capable of end-to-end design. That means working with Velan's tech centers in MRV in Detroit. We are able to handle every part of the design process. And this is very, very important. Few companies have this capability, and we are able to do that on an international basis. So using the 3 different geographies. And you can understand why we have these studios where they are placed. Mumbai, of course, that's our headquarters. It's also an epicenter of culture. It's important to have design in places that need culture. There's no better place than on Mumbai. Turin, all of you know, historically, is one of these automotive centers in Europe. And now in Banbury Oxfordshire, and why Banbury Oxfordshire? our e-racing team, Mahindra formula et actually shares the campus with us. So we have this -- we just had put sports back into SUVs. -- e-racing is at the pinnacle of electric formula racing. And we have this real dream or ambition to bring race technologies to the road, race technologies, accessible. The trial you get while driving NAV, a lot of petrol head journalists used to worry about EV is losing character and the smell of petrol and god knows what else. But once they drive our cars, there's no going back. So the race-to-road story ties up very well with Mahindra e-racing. And in terms of human and physical equipment, again, state-of-the-art -- we use a lot of digital technologies and some of the work that you see here is created in just the last 1 year. And we probably saved 40% to 50% of time in just the design process. It shows you the urgency that we have as a company, of course, but also the ability to go at that speed. Okay. I think someone earlier was asking me about the design philosophy across the products. And we all know that we have 4 iconic brands in the Mahindra family. These are brands in their own right. I always joke with Veejay that someone who buys a car doesn't buy a Scorpio phone who buys a Scorpio doesn't even consider XUV. So that's the are not sub brands. They are really brands in their own right with cult following, they have fans and it's something extraordinary. I think we are one of the -- I mean you can correct me if I'm wrong. We are one of the few companies in the world who've got such well-defined brands and the club or the group of people that go with those brands. So TAR, we all know is iconic. It will always remain iconic in whatever form we bring it. Bolero -- when you think -- you close your eyes and think of a Bolero, it's a solid, chunky go anywhere product. So that's its design philosophy also Scorpio and Scorpio, you all saw recently. It's all about muscle. Its performance is about muscle. That's why people buy that SUV. XUV is about athleticism. And therefore, we chose the XUV as the first brand to electrify because it was so natural to electrify athletic brand. And we've, of course, launched this under the copper Twin Peaks logo that you saw. And final is electric. And electric is -- has its own design language. And you will see that, that some of the products that we showcased on 15th of August, literally less than a month ago. And many people saw those products and say, "Yes, this can't be anything but electric. So it's important that the design language meets or matches the product you're going to show. Unmissable presence is, of course, one of our, let's say, pillars of design. That means when a Mahindra car or SUV vehicle passes you is parked, is in front of you is in your rearview mirror, you have to notice. A Mahindra vehicle is not something that you don't notice. You always notice a vehicle. So it's always got this presence. And any of those 4 brands that I spoke about, you can see if there's a tower on the road, people will turn to look or stop and take a look. Same with the XUV, the 700 is a great example. When it's in your rearview mirror, you really notice -- so the same thing had to be done with the Born electric vehicles. Velusamy will speak why bone electric, why we call them born electric. There's a fundamental architectural difference and he'll speak to you about that. But what it does is, again, someone was asking me earlier when we were chatting, -- what it does is it gives you -- it really opens up the canvas of what you can do. When you're not -- you don't have a space for an internal combustion engine, it allows you to reimagine products, and that's what we've done with the 5 products that we showcased. So can we have the born-electric EV, please? Yes. So I hope that sort of illustrates in 120 seconds, what the next 4 or 5 years is about. And when we showed these cars, we've got a lot of feedback that okay, I contact cars. Yes, but what's the reality going to be? And I can tell you that 3 of these cars are in very advanced phase of engineering and design. So the December 24 date that we've committed is what we are going to stick to and then the launches subsequently. So these are not concept cars. These are all sort of reality that's going to unfold in 2 years. And we are confident because we've been working on the production car phase at the same time as these concepts. And that's the strength and power of this INGLO, you may have just noticed there's an architecture is called INGLO -- and what does it mean? It's -- usually, car companies define their physical architecture, and they give it a name, ABC, XYZ, I'm not going to take any other names. And then the HMI experience is something completely different, the man-machine interface. What we have done is combined it an INGLO is that combination of the physical architecture as well as the experience because we feel and we are sure that ownership of cars in the future is going to be as much about experience within the car as it is about driving it and owning it and charging it and other things. And as you must have noticed, we have this what we call edge-to-edge display, the edge-to-edge display is actually 3 screens seamlessly blended together. And they will create a really beautiful organic intuitive experience as far as the HMI concerned. Now we'll just walk you through that a few seconds. Can we have the second EV, please? So this is, let's say, a girl called Dia she comes into a car in the morning, actually wants to go to work. So Dia of course, is welcome when the car it recognizes. It chooses all her brief setting. She doesn't have to do anything. She literally just sit icon. It personalizes the whole car for her behind the scenes. -- not a button to be pressed. She then with a friend goes towards the office. This third screen is where the friend or your partner is taking a call for work, but a is focused on driving. If there's a warning of any sort, if something comes in front of them, you saw the red warning, very subtle, very beautiful. And then there's also the thrill of driving like I spoke. So there's a g-meter, there's acceleration when she steps on the gas that g-meter shows -- visualizes how the car is behaving. The person on the left, it's an entertainment center, they can watch a film, they can watch clicks. It doesn't disturb the driver. Then of course, they reach their place of work and the car park itself it's auto parking, all the ADAS technologies that Velu and team are going to build into the architecture. And then she sets the car to charge and carries on with her day. So this is just a small glimpse of what INGLO will mean in terms of physical architecture, but also in terms of HMI experience. So I hope those 5 or 6 minutes was exciting for you. It's always difficult to speak after lunch, both for the speaker and the listener. But please catch us later if there's any further questions. And then without any delay, I think to get into the real details of INGLO, the architecture and these products, I invite my dear colleague Velusamy, to take you through the next part of the presentation. Thank you.

Thank you, Pratap. Every time I hear Pratap then I became a child in front or of mother. So -- what you see here is the INGLO platform. So there's a phrase that the IC engine is -- the speed of the IC engine is decided by the speed of the flame inside the combustion chamber, which is 35 to 40 centimeters per second. But do you know what is the speed of electrons? close to 95% of light-- Lightspeed. Lightspeed is 300,000 kilometer per second. So there is no comparison between ICE vehicle and electric vehicle. So the electric vehicle is truly a sport vehicle. And truly, you can bring a race to road. And that's what Pratap has imagined a hardcore design with the healthcare technology that EV technology. So he needed some platform, and that's INGLO platform that we created it. And what you see here is the common underbody that goes across multiple products. I'm sure you are interested in much numbers. I'm going to come with the numbers for you. This platform is the most efficient and gives the highest speed to the vehicle and flexible and adaptable. So let me get some details of it. It has 250 to 290 kilowatt electric mission. In other words, you can say 500 BHP electric mission that's sitting -- 700 has 200 BHP engine. So there's no comparison when it comes to speed. That's why you see 0 to 100 in just 5 seconds. It has variable length. It has variable bits and it has variable overhangs on both sides and a little bit of flexibility on the wheel base. So then this platform can go to multiple products. platform is the heaviest investment that you need to do in electric vehicle because you know you have 3 components in the platform. One is the battery and e-motor and all the power electronics sitting underneath the steel structure that handles the crash and handles the seating structure and the front end the structure and then the vehicle electronic system, which is the per screen that you cite. That's the most expensive systems to develop. Incredible fast charging, 80-lot 80-car means you need 160 clot in 30 minutes. So if you pump 1 hour, 175 cost charging that in 30 minutes, you can come 80 kilowatt. So 80 kilowatt hour is the battery. So if you get batteries 80 core hour and you need a fast charging of 175 clot. And this machine has that. So our target is to give it in 30 minutes full charging, and that's what you are seeing it here. And world-class safety, we never go down below 5 star, and then therefore, this is designed for safety. There are certain components that we take it from MEB, which is suitable to our platform. And that -- we have done the term seat supply agreement with them, and that will underpin the INGLO platform. It comes with quality. It comes with the production and experience. It comes with the software. We are also discussing with them for the vehicle projects, charging and energy solutions and cell manufacturing as declared. Internet volume is over 1 million, as you can see it here, over the 4 or 5 vehicles that we are developing. We talked about the platform, INGLO platform. What we found while developing the INGLO platform is, -- you can have a platform, but the differentiation has to be in the waver hand and in the vehicle height. The front or hang nearly remains the same, but if you are able to differentiate in the rear overhang and in the vehicle height, you can create many different vehicles, and they do not look very similar. But you need to be very careful when you do this, you are trading off the space for 80 clot hour battery. That's the wheel base. You cannot develop every time battery. So therefore, you have to keep that optimal. If the well this is longer, then you will have the turning circuitous problem in the city. So you have to get an optimum one. So there are cars that have 3,000, but we have chosen 2 775. In 2775, if you have to get an 80 clever, you have to do certain innovations on the battery. When we did that, it takes us to the cutting edge of the technology in the battery that we will explain and the vehicle dynamics we are able to control with the technologies in the suspension semi-active. So that's the core thing that we have taken care. So it's a futuristic platform, stat-of-the-art platform. It's not a copy of an existing platform. What you see here for Indian road conditions, you really need the forward visibility and site visibility on the seating position. 750-millimeter of the distance of U.S. is the most IDM position to see at their distance, the upcoming traffic. So that's the most important thing. You need a ground clearance of 218 millimeters. You don't want to damage the battery in an unknown situation in the speed breakers when you are coming very fast. If you do not notice it, you don't want to hit the speed breaker with the battery, which is very, very costly affair if you damage it. So you see it already the -- up to 190 , you see it in the benchwork all the benchmark, but the INGLO designed for 2018. Commencement we already discussed forward visibility we have already discussed. So in a way, this becomes specific to India market this platform. And when you go to Europe, you will really reduce the ground clearance because you don't need it, but you can do it with the suspension tuning, adaptable suspension done. I talked about battery. So we have an energy density or energy of the battery from 60 kilowatt hour to 80 kilowatt hour entry to top variants. We have both the sell chemistry LFB and the NMC. So we are not dependent on one cell chemistry to take care of the supply and situations. We have both the types of architecture blade and prismatic. In order to get 80 kilowatt hour within 2,775 millimeter wheel track at the wheel base, we said we need to find a solution. So we go for cell to pack. Typically, today, what is in production is. You have a cell and you have -- you put the cell into the can, you call it a model and then model you pack it into the battery pack. -- into the housings. What we directly take, we take the cells, we aggregate it, we don't protect cover. We don't use the available space for any other material other than cell. So you call it as a cell to pack. This technology gives us 73% of the volume is used by the energy-producing cells. The rest of the volume is used for safety crossbars and lateral bars that you see it here. And this is the first time that we will come. There's one company that has already released it, 72%, and we are 73%. This already gives you an idea about the battery technology for next 7 years --7 to 8 years, where it is going to be a cutting technology. Charging power that we have discussed, we have 175 typically charging what you see in the Indian market currently is 50 kilowatt, but this will come with 170. In the cell chemistry, we talked about LSB cell chemistry that for hot climate. When you go to 80 kilowatt hour hot clone conditions, LFP is more preferable. When you are operating with INR 30, INR 40 kilowatt, however, you can always use NMC. But in your top end and you want an acceleration, you want an limitless flow of electrons. I mean current -- the talk in IC world in EV world, it is NPL. How many NPL you are able to flow through the copper wires. That's the point. And the better the cell chemistry, the more MPS that you can flow through very, very fast and you can get the talk, and that's the idea to get it. So LFB cells have got 15% -- 10% to 15% cheaper. So therefore, the technology give safety and technology offers you the best reliability and also the affordability. And it does not have the cobalt and nickel and therefore, you have the supply constraints removed already when you choose it. We also have the NMC version in case Electric gets into trouble as the EV is migrating, you don't know which way this will go. You need to protect both. It's like gasoline and diesel. Nobody can predict each way the world will move. The motor already you see it, 80 kilowatt hour battery. The range is given there. There are 3 cycles that you can define 450 in WLTP means you are about 675 kilometers in MIDC -- for -- and reference the most sold in India, the vehicle has 35 or 36 kilometer MIDC Part 1. So that you are comparing with 650 to 75. It's a huge difference. If that is INR 30 or INR 40 crore or we are talking about 80 clot hour, 30 being 60, 40 means 80. So we are talking double. We are not talking about 30% increase and 40% increase. The machines, PSN machines, very high efficient machines that we are using. -- all-wheel-drive 6,700 newton meters, benchmark is up to 6,300. So this is the world cutting-edge powertrain technology that comes upper with anywhere that you can find in the segment in the world. Safety. Most important thing, you have to protect the human, you have to protect the battery. For the battery, we have 2 measures. One is the chemical stability and another is the thermal stop thermal propagations. When this vehicle comes into production, it will bring future norms of safety into India. Now where you have heard about soft thermal propagations but this vehicle will come with that technology. And this will never get catch-up fire. That's the design that we are doing. Frontal crash and side crash, as you see, is heavily done in order to protect the battery and also the equipment. We have a special aluminum extrusion reinforcements introduced around the battery in order to save up the battery in the ventures. Suspension, I've talked about always electric vehicles are about 300 to 400 kgs or higher. The springs have to be stiffer. If the springs are stiffer, then you get all the road inputs directly to the -- so therefore, it needs a different suspension system. The EV vehicles have got a different suspension system. -- and that's called semi-active technology. We bring in in our vehicles. It's a part of the standard offering that we do in our platform. So the platform is fitted with the semi-active subsection technology for an 80 kilowatt hour. As I told, in order to reduce the turning circle radius to 10.5%. We have got the front suspension totally redesigned, which allows the tire to be moved. If you take an ICE vehicle and if you convert it, you can never do that. The other biggest improvement in the platform that biggest step that we are doing is the high-performance compute system. This is the future. If you see battery and motor or the future for the drivetrain technology for the vehicle technology for the customer engagement, what its future is the cockpit domain control, the 3 screens that Pratap has shown you is the cockpit domain controller. Today, we have 6 GB memory. We are going to 32 GB. It's huge, huge increase, all copulations we can do. Autonomous L2+, we will bring in, ADAS, we have already, but we will bring in L2+ driving. Vehicle dynamics, semi-activated will completely controlled from a central computer. We will have sort and photo driver monitoring, occupant monitoring. We have Alexa. We will have 5G compatibility we will have V2X communication system installed. Panoramic display that you saw already. Haircut with the 360-degree system, we will have it in our car, plug and play and ultimate connectivity with the 5G. 47 45 5, 19, 98 starts with the December 24, 8. April 25 will be E9 and October 25 will be E05. They are in tooling stage right now. We are releasing one-by-one tooling stage. And October 26 is in the design free state right now. So we are way ahead of what you see. These are the real designs. We are not going to change 1 millimeter on these first 3 cars from the last. We are not going to change it because it's already going for the tooling phase.

Thanks, Velu. Just for everyone's knowledge, the last slide that you just saw here you see the E. In the U.K., we actually had a driving vehicle of the E8. So that's what I meant when I said that it's not just a vision. It's a reality with the first vehicle made for people to actually drive an experience. And that's what we had for the media in the U.K. Coming closer to home, we will now talk about the XUV 400. As you are aware, on the eve of the World EV Day on 8, we actually unveiled the XUV 400. And before I talk a little bit about it, maybe a good idea for us to begin this with a nice fun video, which is what the TV commercial is of this brand. So I'm just going to request you guys to play it, please. We go in for it. We know when that's got to have iterative. So you can see, again, for a very different segment for the youth, fun, fast and at the same time, planet conscious. And hence, we say we fund, we fast -- we electric. Clearly, what makes success of a new launch or of a product is the segment, both from a market perspective, the consumer segment that we target. And at the end of the day, what is the proposition that the product has. What is it that it brings to the category. So very quickly, let me share with you when we talk about market segmentation, where is it -- what is the TIV and where is it that we are targeting. Now clearly, when you look at the EV space from an opportunity point of view, -- there is the B segment and the C segment kind of define that for you just from a perspective of length, the B segment is typically 3.8 to 4 meters, and the C segment is between 4% to 4.5%. And if you look at the TIV, the B segment obviously is larger at about 66,000 per month. And there is one EV brand in that segment, which has about 3.5% share of that segment. Likewise, if you look at the C segment, and it's significantly growing, which is currently at about 32,000. And we have 2 brands there, which collectively together is less than 1%. Now with the XUV400 when Vale will talk a little bit more about the product, you will see that from a proportion specification, the product, what it brings into the category is something that will really allow us to create a new category, something that will come in, in a sweet spot to take both from B and C segment in terms of size, proportion, features, performance, range, everything put together. The second part, as I did mention about is the customer segmentation. I think the TV commercial gave you a glimpse of what we mean by the target audience for this product. But what's interesting is in a research that we did in terms of asking customers what would their next vehicle purchase be and 25% thereabouts of customers said that their next vehicle will be an EV. And tying this back to what we spoke about in terms of who we are and what is our purpose. Clearly, when you look at the segmentation, there is one set of customers who are looking to buy an EV as a second vehicle in their ownership of vehicles, primarily for short distance usage. Then you have a second segment of customers who are actually looking for economics for home performance, range, it's more about going from point A to point B and what's the economics of what I'm owning and buying. And then you have the third segment, which -- and especially in the post-pandemic world, it is the segment which want to live life to the fullest and they want to front load their life. They want their experiences now. They want to live unplugged and they want to do it now. There is not tomorrow. It's not about saving and trying to live a life later. It's about living in the moment and enjoying life now. That is the exploding category in India, and that best lends itself towards SUVs. And I'm just going back to where we started from, which is about bringing the sports back into EVs. And this segmentation strategy, product all ties back in with our purpose, which is about living life broadly at the same time caring for our planet. It's about creating sophisticated and authentic SUVs, which are sustainable. -- and allow the consumers at the same time to have the spirit of expiration. So this is the first product in the EV space that we bring out. We bring it on Twin Peaks as the brand. This will be the first product, which will carry the copper twin peaks logo on it, which will house the Twin Peaks logo. And now the third part, which is what I spoke about as what fits in to complete the strategy of success is about the combination that the product offers. And I think one thing you all will agree whether you look at the launch of 700, whether you look at the Scorpio-N, when we bring a product into the category, we create disruptors. And what's going to make this a disruption is the number of best in category that it will offer to the customer. So whether you talk about acceleration, I'm not going to take the thunder away, but Velu will share with you the details, but best-in-class acceleration, safety, never compromise at M&M. You've seen all our recent launches, 4-star, 5-Star GNCAP, best-in-class style and space. You will see when Velu talks to you about proportions. It brings the beauty of compactness in terms of footprint, but maximizing space within the cabin of people as well as luggage compared to any other product in the category and most important best-in-class range. Now I did mention that on 8th we revealed the 400 because there are series of events that will build up between now and January. So in -- on 8th, we did the product reveal and we did the media drives. We have all seen the raving reviews that have come out from all the colleagues from the media fraternity. We are kicking off our fund fest starting from October. We plan to launch the product to begin with in 15 cities. So we will have a series of fun fest events, which we will take across these markets. We will start test drives and display offshore display the vehicles in the showroom starting from December. We will announce price and open bookings in the month of January, and we intend to start deliveries in the end of January. So through the series of events that we will do, we will have this buildup to get to bookings and deliveries starting from January. With that, let me now call upon Velu to walk you through the product truth in terms of what is it that the XUV 400 will deliver. Velu over to you.

It's going to be fast. So what you see here is a global consultant that helped us on -- that is on the vehicle side and right side what you see and left side is a consultant that helped on the power train side. The batteries designed and tested by [indiscernible] on the vehicle side, all the ABS, all the technologies, suspension technologies is done by those consultants. It's a collaborative effort of worldwide consultants from left to right. [indiscernible], space, performance, safety, fun, fast, electric. What you see here is the C segment and not the B segment. 4.2 meters, 18-21 overall with widest car in this segment and 2,600 wheel base, fitting exactly to the C segment. Comparing 2 segment, one of the best-selling costs, you are way ahead in terms of space, 2,600 millimeters of wheelbase. So you have a second row, first row, having a fantastic space. 1,634 overall height. So the stance is completely different overall length proportions. They are completely different because you have 200 millimeters more, you get a boat space. Visibility, front visibility, site visibility and seating position that you see it. Mahindra never compromises on these 3 parameters because we are a CV company. Cabin room mines, as I said, close to 50 millimeters in the first row and boot space of 418 liters. The battery pack that is designed 3 years ago when we started, we know that we need 40 kilowatt hour for a decent range. So we get a range of 4, 5, 6, you can remember this number. As I said, we have 50 load, and therefore, it takes 50 minutes for a 40 clots you know the calculation that I said. IP67 compliance is waterproof, highest energy density, it has coming to acceleration that you can see you drive this, your heart starts to raise along with the car, not the car raises, what your heart starts to raise, 8.3% very incredibly low number compared to [indiscernible] isn't it? Yes. So you have the fastest C-segment electric SUV in the country, including 50x category. You drive it, you feel it. The difference is that in an ICE vehicle, they say the torque of 350, 400 newton meters, but you get at 1,750 RPM. But whereas in the electric, you get that 25 RPM. You just trust the pedal bang on the tower comes. So the turbo lag that you see it. You don't see it in an electron lack because, as I said, the electrons moves in and out. So that's the reason that why electric vehicles are doing like this. Safety, as which Veejay mentioned. So we protect both the passenger and the battery. What you see in the bottom is the case for the battery. And in the event of any undecided extents you are well protected. You have a third load path introduced compared to the ICE in order to take the distribution of the load because the -- the EV vehicles are about 300 -- 250 to 300 close pie. So you need an exon pathogen of it. We have redesigned significantly the under body and the frontend of the body and the side of the body. You can see it about 10% where the battery is sitting, we have an ultra-high strength steel. Coming to lively mode with the T2 features -- you have one pedal driving that takes care of. As soon as you trust the beta accelerates and when you take care of it, when you take the pre the vehicle recognize your intention to break down. So it automatically breaks the vehicle, start, accelerate and decelerate and stop using only the [indiscernible] pedal. So the single pedal drive technology has been brought in. Particularly, it's very helpful in City drive elegant blue team infotainment, embedded EV statistics. You can see the range. You can see the charging conditions, how much is left out and all the information that is displayed here. Drive modes, you have 3 dry mores, fun, fast and fearless drive modes, and they have different -- the regeneration modes inbuilt in it. We have 60-plus connectivity features. BlueSense provides it. You can open the doors, switch on the AC, switch on the headlamps, all that stuff you can do, plan your trips, find navigation, find charges, operating systems -- charging systems can connect your stops and then you can see it. So it comes with the vehicle comes fast and with fun filled with connectivity technology, the battery technology that enables you 4, 5, 6 kilometer range in ADC with the fastest again, fastest car 0 to 100-kilometer in 8.3 seconds. Fun to dry. Take care.

Okay. So we'll get started with the Q&A. Thank you for the patient hearing. How much ever we tried I personally try to tell Velu and at and others to go fast, but they're just too passionate about it. So with all the looks that I gave from all directions and cut back the number of slide.

We weren't bad, we managed it in 15 minutes.

So -- so sorry about that. We are okay to overrun from our side if there are more questions. So maybe we can go on share for 45 minutes or so until 5:15 India time efforts okay with you all, but it depends on your question. So we are open to Q&A, so whoever wants to take the first question. So rarely help us with what is online separately. We'll take the questions here, but when something is online, then you can.

Can you also turn down these lights I can't…

Okay. Yes.

Good evening, and many congratulations on one more blockbuster potentially blockbuster product. Fingers crossed. So my first question is on -- some of your competitors have recently launched hybrids as well in this category, and you've seen the pricing and everything. So just from your perspective, if you could explain why hybrids don't form in the scheme of things for you? And second question is, when we look at EVs versus ICE and as we move ahead a few years down the line, what will be the competitive advantages that you will have in EV world compared to IC world, -- how would they be different? And is there a significant first-mover advantage in your view? Okay.

So I'll take the hybrid question first. Velu, if you want to add a comment? Let's be honest, we don't want to take multiple initiatives, which we can't execute with the resources that we have. So we have to make some bets and put everything behind making it happen. Right now, we think EV is that right bet to make. And we'd rather be all-in rather than try and do multiple things. So that's the first thing. Now the question is then why is EV that bet? And why not hybrid is the bet?. At least with for us, of course, we will go global like Velu spoke about with the born electric platform. But our primary market will be India, and that's what we are creating the product for. The Indian government is very, very clear about the EV transition road map. And in India, as all of you understand more than other countries in the world, energy securities, is a key driver. The foreign exchange impact on the Indian economy is a key driver to why the government wants us to move electric, and of course there's climate as well. So it's a combination of all of that. So we see the government continuing its EV push in a very strong way, and we would rather be ready and full all hands on that EV journey rather than distract ourselves trying to create multiple things. For those of you who've got a chance to drive the 40 around right now, you would make out why it's such a different experience. So it's not just about buying a product for the economic benefit out of it. It is really a very different user experience. The noise levels, the acceleration, the PAP, the use of technology in human machine interfaces, software, we're all going to take the product to a very, very different level. So we really think that's the path to go. So maybe let me pause here, see Velu would I want to add anything?

Not on the first one, but on his second question.

Yes. Well, do you want to add anything on the first -- is that okay for you? Or do you need a follow-up on that?

Yes. It's fine Okay. On the second, we want to -- Yes. I mean I just -- on the second one, do you want to go first? -- he I think your point on how will we create differentiation and strategic advantage. I think one has to always understand that as a package that you bring in for which segment and at what price -- so you look at what we did with 700, we disrupted because we were able to bring first to a category at a certain price point. And if you look at the specifications that Velu put out on INGLO as a platform, and I'll come to 4 after that right now, I'm just talking about products coming on into as a platform. So whether you look at the design or whether you look at the combination of range and performance, coupled with a 3-screen HMI interface that we will bring in is what will create the differentiation. Let's take B05 as an example. -- the way that vehicle has been designed, it's very, very different compared to what any other EV will bring in that 4.3 to 4.5 meter length EV space. I mean, if you saw the images of the interiors of the vehicle, we've actually created a sort of a race driver seat cockpit. See, these are the things in terms of design, experience, HMI performance, which, as a combination together will create a differentiation or let me put it this way, it will allow us to create a category when we launch these products.

I just want to add to that. I think sharpness of where we want to take our brand is a very critical part in everything that you're seeing play out. We are designing product technologies, all of that to live to a certain position and aspirational value we want to create for our brand. While still being frugal in the delivery like Veejay said at the end of the day, it has to hit the right sweet spot on the price. So everything that Veejay just spoke out is coming out of that context where it allows us to be very clear because we want to be bold in our design, and we want to be distinctive in the offer. So once we decide that, then we are not thinking about, okay, are we going to get another 30,000 volume by selling to labor. That's not in our mind at all. We are not designing for that. We are not designing to play these 2 hats. Because once you start doing that, then you start operating at the lease torment denominator of your product offering and you start trying to second guess every customer segment. We are not doing that. We are very, very focused on what we want to deliver. And that allows differentiation.

Velusamy I'd like to hear from you as well because my question was also that when you are making ice cars and now that you will be making electric cars, what is it that is different? Where do the competitive advantages lie in ICE and where do they in EVs? That is what I really want to understand.

So you should see it in 2 different buckets. So you have a 30 to 40 low-hour platform, and you have a INR 60 crore to INR 80 crore or platform. We do make ice converted vehicle C4s promise, but heavily modified underflow to fit the battery. -- intermediate version, you need it as a transition to EV, but transition to EV is limited up to 40 clot hour. Beyond your point, if you convert the ICE vehicle, you cannot increase allergy density beyond. But the INR 40 crore hour is just giving 456 kilometer, and you don't get it about 650 kilometers. If you want in real world, 400 kilometers to intracity drive, then you need 400 kilometers without changing, right? In one charge, you must be able to go to the other destination. So in an IDC, 650 kilometer, we are talking about railroad of 450 to 475 depending on how you drive, right? So that kind of battery pack, if you had to bring 60 to 80 crore hours, it is not possible to do it in an ice converted vehicle.

His question is, in ICE, what is your competitive advantage versus in EVs? In the -- Regular…

That's right I think Valois interpreted that to mean is converted versus -- It's going to nonelectric -- Okay. And just That you are able to come very quickly. And then you have a battery pack of 40 clot hour, and you have an electric vehicle, that's for in between INR 15 to INR 22 lakhs in that bracket, you are able to come very quickly to the market. You are able to get into the EV domain, you learn it and you have a product like XUV400 that you see, you get the product very quickly. you use the investment sundry made in price?

No. Actually, let me explain my question. What I'm trying to say is that when you look at ICE products, you make the engine, for example, over there. And it requires a certain skill set, probably. I don't know you will be in a better position to answer that. Whereas in EV world, you have the battery, the motor. So what I'm trying to understand is when you take an ICE SUV or ice car and you take an EV SUV or EVC, where do the competitive strengths flat? What is it that you need to succeed in both of these different cases?

Let me try and take that and then maybe we'll look at Chip. So a lot of our success in ICE, firstly, in the more recent past has actually come out of the very, very good quality diesel and gasoline powertrains that we've created recently. And as you experience any of the new launches, you can -- that's a key differentiating factor. Also like Veejay said, I'm not talking generically, sorry, but I'm just trying to focus on what's -- what has been our competitive advantage in ICE and what do we think will be our competitive advantage in EVs rather than talking industry categories, so on and so -- so our powertrains have been very, very distinctive. In the more recent launch like 700, especially the use of tech at a very, very affordable price, has been a key differentiating factor. It's feature pack, but the platform and the refinement of the product is now at the highest price point levels, right? So for a customer who is used to driving a vehicle, which is 40, 50 lakhs, what they are getting is the refinement of a 40-50 lakh vehicle with that kind of a feature and tech offering at a price which is half that. So that is the basis of competitive advantage. What of that will replay in the EV space? We don't think the battery pack itself is going to be a differentiating factor because as Velu explained, but how you package it, integrate it, manage the way, get the range, which is the integration part of it is going to be more important than just the buying of the powertrain per se. For us, the way we are thinking about it is the 2 key factors around different competitive advantage will be the design and the whole use of tech and human machine interface. And then giving the whole ecosystem of -- around the integration, I'm not talking about the battery charging ecosystem, but the offering around how we manage range, weight, performance, acceleration and all of these trade-offs. So it's the choice-making that's going into the product by way of what levers do we want to give our customers. And again, that brings us back to the distinctiveness of the brands and hence, the need to have 2 brands right? I am just building back again on Veejay's points on why 2 brands. As we take copper twin peaks through, starting with the XUV, but over a period of time, so will all our iconic brands can be electric. We don't want to get restricted by the Mahindra design language, which is in play today for because the electric customers who are buying electric may want a very much more modern, younger vibrant spotty design language and the B brand allows us to do that. So in a way, we are allowing ourselves to play to customer groups through 2 different design language and hence, design and brand become a differentiator. I think we should move on to another even if you are not convinced.

Thank you. so you've -- what is the investment in the INGLO platform? You've talked about, I think, 1 million units of volume. And how is it materially different than an investment in an ICE platform? That's my first question.

Yes. So we're not actually breaking down right now the investment on what is going to platform and what is going to top it maybe at some stage in the future, we'll do that. What we have put out right now is that we are investing roughly about INR crores, INR 10,000 crores, which is in a way what we had announced when we had announced the forming of the new EV Co, where we're saying we're basically going to be investing about INR 10,000 crores. That company, as you are aware, has got valued at about $9 billion, out of which initial funding is to $50 million from BI and to $50 million from us. That's what covers us for the cost of the platform. The 4 moves into that will move into that new company and the cost of at least the 3 products and maybe one more. So broadly, that's the INR 10,000 crores covers the complete cost of the platform, all the related manufacturing and the investments are affordable. Yes, on the top hits of the products.

Not just the platform, including the top hits.

So that's broadly the way it is. From an internal point of view, which we're not yet putting out there in the public domain, this is broken up by way of a platform cost, which is separate, allocated to the cost of the products. So platform becomes a common investment, which is then leveraged across the individual products.

Sure. And that 10,000 only incorporates for the moment are in low?

No, no, no. It incorporates INGLO plus the product. So if I was to simplify, there was a slide which had the 5 products, right? E8, 9, the XUV 89 and it had the 579 on the BE brand. The figure that Raj spoke about covers all those products, which includes a platform that is shared by all 5 of them. There's an include 9.

It doesn't include 9, sorry. Included. Over 9%, so 400.

Right. And my second question is that the first launch is in January 23. Yes, 400. And the slide talks about XUV twin peaks in December 24. So will we see more products in those 2 years? Or there is a gap of 2 years?

There's a gap of 2 years.

Yes, question clear in the EV.

In the EV space. yes.

I have a couple of questions here. One was one of the interesting differentiation in your strategy versus global OEMs is -- and Rajesh, you just mentioned battery will be more of a commodity. So for OEMs who are investing in batteries along with the partners, do you think there will be a differentiation in terms of efficiency or in terms of cost? Because it seems like you will rely largely on partners when it comes to battery sourcing from a longer-term perspective? And I have a follow-up.

Yes. So on -- right now, the way we are working, our strategy is to leverage batteries partnerships or batteries, and we will do that in the first phase. The reason for that is not just cost, it's also the pace at which the technology curve will evolve, right? So when I'm saying it's commoditized, so if that actually your words, that doesn't mean that technology is not going to play out there. There is going to be a rapid evolution of technology in that area in the whole area of battery and the efficiencies that it will bring in along with costs. Now the point is, do we have that as an intrinsic core competitor. And I think that's where you were headed. And no, we don't. And we didn't have that in ICE engines 15 years back. We relied on partnership there. Many of our earlier engines, the first engine, I think we had [indiscernible], right? So the engine on which the Bolero got built was a [indiscernible] engine, right? And it's -- over the last 20 years that we build capabilities. And today, the top global OB OEMs want to purchase engines from us because the Indians are have evolved so much. There's a time in our evolution where we may do that. We don't think this is the time.

Okay. Just a quick one. It's more tactical question. So the car is doubly -- but since you're using NMC and we always thought NMC is reasonably more efficient than LFP, but it's only 5% more range versus Nexon MAX a little more to covey, but the range is just 5%. And we used to think NMC is at least 20%, 30% more efficient than LFP. So any thoughts on that?

So it doesn't matter whether it is NMC or LFB, it only matters clover.

Yes, lower. So the energy density, the range should have been…

The clot or directly gives you energy, but you can derive it from 2 routes, either LFP route or an NMC route. These are 2 different cell chemistries, as you know. But the cell chemistry alone does not give you a higher range, but the clot over is the one which gives you a range.

Yes. So let should be much lighter and gives you more range, right, for the same kilowatt order.

But it's a bigger vehicle as well -- It's -- 4.2 meter vehicle. So there are many other elements as well. -- so it's wait to wait, not comparable. It's a different class of vehicle.

So just 2 questions. First one…

I think we should get your mic so they can hear you online. And adding any questions online, then just…

After. Yes.

Yes.

So this is on the MEB partnership. So just wanted to understand like are you restricting yourself in the sense that all the critical components are coming in from the partnership? And how do you get then the cost reduction as the scale advantage -- scale moves up -- That's just the other way around, right?

You get cost advantage because of scale advantage. And that's the value of a partnership and which is the reason why we are saying that exploring, doing more things with BW because there is potential reverse scale advantage that can come back to them. as well. So these are all areas of further exploration. Because if we were to operate subscale without a strategic partnership, we will actually never get the economies of scale. Our best chance of getting economies of scale is by operating with somebody who sees us as a strategic partner, not just a supplier customer relationship where this relation can be symbiotic and somebody who has invested a lot in going all the way down to the mines. So that whole combination allows us to do that and maybe we have done this, we've compared the cost with multiple other things. So it's not that we've closed our is and jumped in and gotten. We've got a negotiated rate, and that's been based on comparison with other options that we had.

Got it. And just the other question was on like -- I mean, from the spec that I see for -- E8 or E9, 4.77 meters, 4.5 meters. So are we sort of targeting a completely different segment? I mean, like this doesn't look like it's essentially targeted anywhere even what so-called premium segment in India.

It's a 4.7 meter that remember is not relating to meters -- 9 does not mean 4.9%, -- it's 4.7% only. We are going basically 4.3% to 4.7%. That's the spectrum in which we play.

But I mean, from the specs and the features it looks like we're essentially probably going even above the XUV700.

Actually 70 is a product of today, right? We have to have specs 3 years later, which are -- at that time, will not disrupt the market then. But we are playing in our core segment. We are not going to become a premium luxury player. And unless you think 700 is a luxury brand, which we can't fall you for filling.

I was just basically trying to say it's a portfolio, right? You've got 5 products in there and when you add 400 or you have 6. So you want to span the length going from 4.2% 444.6 4.7%. And while you look at E9, E9 is a fast pack version, right? It's really a category differentiator. So from a…

Yes, so maybe Pratap, you can add a little bit. So while you're adding a little bit of length, you're adding it for the proportion of design, which I think the question is less around the design, it's more around the features that we are giving I think it was more of the length.

He started off his question with end saying that are you going to wear the premium category products play in that lens. So to answer that question, what Tata will come in, it's a portfolio strategy in which we have one product, which probably is a little longer compared to the others. But it's clearly not in the range of what you're talking about.

Which is -- Still 4.7% -- we the -- around the 7 or -- Yes, 7, 4…

And very clearly, the '09 and the 9, there's sort of grand tours. That means passengers in real first-class comfort, but also a lot of luggage. So while they are sort of copay design, the luggage capacity is huge, the volume.

Just to clarify, on is the one out of this, which is at a complete concept stage. So as Velu explained, 3 of these are in execution, which is the XUV8, XUV9 and the B05, B07, right? 07 is at design finalization stage 09 out of these 5 is at a concept status.

Got it.

Which is the length you picked up.

From this slide. The question was that are you essentially targeting even more premium than where you already are with the XUV that and it seems to suggest that the price points will actually move much higher in terms of the product portfolio?

Let's -- we are 2 years away from pricing. So we can start there for the moment. direction is to operate in the same space in which we are and not be a luxury brand.

Yes. Can I ask a question?

I think what we'll do is let's just take 1 or 2 online -- And then we'll come back to you.

There's a question from Chirag, Edelweiss.

Can you share more insights on choosing the battery technology apart from the cost and heat conditions, Will the metric MSC change in the case of export markets?

No. The -- you have basically 2 battery chemistries, NMC and LFP, NMC adopted early on like the gasoline engines came early on into the automotive, NMC had the energy density advantage. So everybody who developed the battery pack, they're developed with NMC. In the meantime, the NMC has nickel [indiscernible], and they are very metal components, and it's very difficult to get them. So people started developing LFP. LFP does not have these components, and then it is catching up the energy density car. And as you know, it is anything between 10% to 15%, it can be cheaper depending on how the contracts are made with the suppliers of the lithium phosphor iron. So now it is catching up and a lot of people are adopting LFP. LFP for hot countries is very good. NMC for coal countries is very good. But then in the battery pack, you have a heater and chiller to take care of either of the chemistry. The chemistry nowadays are depending on -- not on LFB or NMC, but on the supply situation and how much you have gotten the -- until the mineral or mining place, how much contracts you have made, how much supply conditions you have, you have taken -- got an assurance to get the supply conditions. But LFB has a little advantage on cost, NMC has a little advantage on energy density. That's the bottom line. But both are being prepared by I mean, every EV companies they're migrating to LFP and having -- trying to have equal portfolio.

Yes. And I think Chirag had a question on whether that's going to be different for export markets.

So now there's no such point of view…

There is no -- it's -- we are keeping the flexibility open for both markets.

Okay. Just one more question on what is the level of localization in XUV400.

Level of localization next. I think the -- Everything is local -- The Better terms of the except the cell level. Yes, except the sale, everything is local. -- motor -- And the motor. What are we import, yes.

Okay. questions. Some other questions have already been answered. So we'll come back to later.

Yes, you had a question.

Yes. This is [indiscernible] from CLSA. I just wanted to ask you spent INR 600 crores on a platform converting ICE to electric, right? So which are the major areas, I just want to understand where investments have gone. I mean when you convert a ICE platform to EV, what all things you're working on in terms of investments? I just want to get a sense on that.

Let me just take that upfront and then maybe both of you can chip in INR 600 crores includes the making it 4.2 meters. So it's not all electric. So that number you can't use only to evaluate what did we spend on the electrification. So that was the first clarification I want to put out because that includes the investment of the entire year end of the product, which, as you can see, has new lamps and rare lamps and all of that. So that's one part of the question. The second then is around developing the whole battery pack, localizing that, developing the battery management system because here, in this case, we've done everything ourselves. The BMS, all of that is all owned by us. Pratap, you want to add on something on?

Yes, rightly say -- Floor changes, body shop, all of that. So you have -- like Mark engine, when you develop the 2.2 liter and then you adopted to X5, you don't spend on engine, right, the first time you spend it. Likewise, this is the first time we developed the battery and then manufacturing investments, better development investments plus vehicle control unit plus like battery control unit plus crash development, all of them plus 4.2. All put together is this.

Yes. Go ahead. Just take the mine.

So maybe a few basic questions. This XUV400, can you please talk through how much sort of -- you have tested this product? What are the key problems that you face? How you sorted the first question?

Typical -- Yes, I don't think we'll answer the second part, which is how many problems do we face and how did we solve them, but we'll definitely tell you what we have tested for. Yes. So typically, in every development, you will face problems that we used to get, and we fixed it. So you have all electronic controllers and therefore, it has to be tested at.

We have tested in Korea for all the about minus 15 to minus 20 degree temperature conditions and you run at a high speed, you test the battery, you just various, you test the BMS, the battery management system, the motor control unit, and then you have a charging system. The charging system has to be tested for varying voltage conditions at varying battery charging situation. For example, you have 20%, you have 40%, you have 80% and 60% at various battery energy conditions used with varying voltages coming from AC or the DC, you check it everything under very different adverse faring conditions. And then you took it to dessert, and you test it for high acceleration, drawing the current maximum possible from the battery. And then you see it whether the better is stable, motor is stable conditions that we have to trade for more than 3 months, we have tested it in 4 months, we have tested about 5 vehicles. high-speed track in Korea and in all the city conditions in India, in Bangalore, Chennai, in deny, we have tested it. That's more important for us, very slow-moving traffic, but break and moving traffic. Of course, all component-level testing that you will need to do.

And what's the realized sort of range for these conditions?

So IDC part 1 that you see 456 kilometers. -- any car that you tested about 30% drop, you will see it. Typically, you will see 20%, 25% to 30% are depending on the traffic condition. [indiscernible] testing conditions are different real-world customer driving conditions are different. The weights are different. AC conditions are different. So you would see in that range.

This will give 300, right?

No. I mean you need to test it in your test cycle to know…

Every customer will -- depending on their usage is going to get a different number, right? So that's -- That's the reason why everyone talks about one common number, which is a tested number on a multiple cycle. Now if you drive the vehicle only Mumbai-Pune Expressway, obviously, you're not going to get a 450-kilometer range if you accelerate it in the fearless mode, then the battery is going to run down differently. So every customer based on how they use it, will get a different usage condition. I think what Velu said is roughly from the declared value to the real world is a gap of 20%, 30%. And we are going to use now that the product is out. We will run it more and get greater confirmation on what the actual different customer usage ranges can be.

Sure. Last question. So -- you've talked about 1 million number over there. But can you talk through like 2023, what kind of production capacity you have for XUV400? -- what kind of numbers you can produce on a monthly basis? And then 24, 25, 26, 27. How do you get to that $1 million? If you can just talk to the production capacity. I'm not talking about sales. I'm talking about just your production capacity.

Yes. So let's start with 400. We got asked this question by media as well naturally on 8th and 9th. We need to do some calibration around the demand side. And that's why one question everybody had is why have we revealed so early if we're only going to start bookings in January. And one of the reasons to do that is to get a better calibration of what demand will be and what is the supply lockup. The key function here on capacities is linked to availability of the battery, the cells. -- right? I mean that's the key -- the primary constraint that we have to lock in as all of you know, that's a global constraint at the moment, like the semiconductor constraint, there is a constraint on availability of sales. Everybody is clamoring for battery cell related availability. That is something we are working through, and we will have a bit of clarity on that by Jan, Feb to put out numbers. Like we have said -- we just said today, the size of the opportunity is big. It's really a question of seeing at what pace adoption happens. And hence, what is the readiness we should have by way of volume. So that's on the 4 piece. Now we'll put out a number more as we go across over the next 2, 3 months. And as you understand it, it's going to be a function of price as well. And we have not rushed into opening booking because we want to make sure we understand the right price here. And that's why we will use the October, November, what would they call the customer far and the test trial to start getting a feedback on where customer value is lying. And this is the reason where in IC, we know the customer very, very, very intuitively. And here, this is a new segment for everybody, new segment for customer, new segment for us. And we have to give ourselves time to learn and adjust our approach. And that's what we're going to use the next 3 months for. On the rest of the capacity buildup, I just want to clarify one thing different than what Velu mentioned on this slide. The $1 million number is what we have put out in our press release with Volkswagen that includes the possibility of using their cells in other products as well beyond the SUVs. So the 2 don't necessarily match. The number that we've put out by way of what we want to sell of EVs in the year, SUV EVs in the year 2027, is that if EV penetration of our total SUV sales is 30% in 2027, that will translate to 200,000 vehicles per year. And the range between the lower end and upper end can be 20% penetration to 30% penetration. So in a way, the upside scenario for us in 2027 is 200,000 EVs in the SUV space. The potential to use VW cells and batteries can go beyond SUVs. There no other Yes, yes. And values also clarifying that's, of course, the life cycle. But even if you take the life cycle, it will include a larger mix.

Maybe the last question from there. Those who are turning to the net. -- who has designed to cell and the battery system? What are you seeing from MEB in XUV400? And what is the contribution of [indiscernible] value?

Nothing from MEB and XUV400. Who has designed the INGLO platform, it's Factors. for the -- will do you want to answer that? The role of I told the -- designed the battery. Velu do you want to answer that?

We took the cell from the Korean cell supplier we declared during the launch. So you integrate the cell into the battery pack and the model, model to battery pack -- so that was done by AVL and in-house, and it is being manufactured in Chakan plant.

The other question is -- What is the contribution of those 3 fenders you mentioned, 3 partners you have mentioned?

So Blue cent is a company that we used to integrate the motor control unit vehicle control unit is a master control unit. Then you have a charging control unit, and you have patron. So you have a battery. It has a control you need to BMS. You have a charger that has a controller, you need to charge you control unit, you have a motor, you have a motor control unit. The driver demand has to be converted into these 3 people. That's called VCU, vehicle control unit. This vehicle control unit has to talk to all of these guys. And that was -- the integration of these control units were done by [indiscernible] and the value gives the motor, so motor control unit comes from that.

See, that question was for 400, right?

Yes.

Yes.

Could you please talk about what are we doing on the charging infrastructure because that's something we will need to think about now right? So is there -- the existing network, can it be shared whatever competitors are developing? Is there some kind of partnership? And what about apartment complexes and cities like Mumbai.

Yes. Yes. So we are -- we're actually in the final stages of closing 3 MOUs, we'll announce them soon. The 3 areas are charging in for that we need to focus on. One is private charging, which is either in your home or in your office, where in your home or housing society, people are setting up charging and we'll enable that to happen. The second is fast charging is our dealerships. So every dealership will have fast charging. And the third is leveraging existing charging infra, which is also a couple of tie-ups that we will be doing with the people who are in that space. The Blue Sense app will show any customer the closest charging station and our endeavor is to bring that down to the bare minimum. So there's a lot happening on charging infra -- we'll announce details well before we come to -- You want to add some?

They're always in charging. The point that we want to make is as a strategy, it will be all through collaborations, we will not invest in charging.

Thank you all for being here, and we hope you found it insightful and useful. And if there are any follow-up questions, we'll be happy to take them separately.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.