Manulife Financial Corporation (MFC) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, and thank you for joining us today. On behalf of our Board, we welcome you to the Annual Meetings of Manulife Financial Corporation and the Manufacturers Life Insurance Company. My name is John Cassaday, Chairman of the Board. Across Manulife, we are committed to diversity, equity and inclusion, and this commitment means we are consistently changing how we move forward as a company. A part of this progress includes incorporating an indigenous land acknowledgment, where we recognize and acknowledge the history of the land on which we operate. It is important for us to show our respect for indigenous peoples and recognize their enduring relationship to the land. We, the Board of Directors on behalf of shareholders, policyholders, employees of Manulife, acknowledge that we are on the traditional territory of the indigenous peoples. As we gather today on these treaty lands, we have the responsibility to honor and respect the 4 directions, the land, waters, plants, animals and ancestors that walked before us and all the wonderful elements of creation that exist. Today, these gathering places are home to many First Nations, Métis, and Inuit and indigenous peoples from across Turtle Island. Acknowledging them reminds us of our important connection to this land where we live, learn and work. We recognize honor and respect these nations as the traditional stewards of the land and water on which Manulife offices are now present. With that important acknowledgment, we are once again holding our annual meeting electronically instead of in-person against the backdrop of the COVID-19 pandemic. To all of those who have experienced heartbreak and loss because of the pandemic, please accept our heartfelt sympathies. And to all the individuals and groups in our communities, keeping us healthy and providing essential services. We thank you. After an extraordinary year, your Board is proud of the company's many accomplishments achieved under the strong and empathetic leadership of our President and Chief Executive Officer, Roy Gori, and your executive leadership team. We are also humbled by the resilience, agility and passion shown by Manulife's employees around the world who continue to serve our customers through the uncertainty and upheaval unfolding around them. In 2020, your Board's top priority was ensuring that we could continue to provide oversight and guidance to the management team virtually. As the pandemic unfolded, we set up frequent meetings with management and held informal updates with Roy to ensure your Board had a clear line of sight into the company's COVID-19 response, its approach for an eventual return to the office and, of course, our overall progress on its strategic priorities. Our oversight of Manulife's near and long-term strategy was particularly focused on the large and compelling growth opportunity presented by the company's business in Asia and Global Wealth and Asset Management. We continue to leverage our Board's diverse mix of skills to conduct focused deep dives into topics of key importance to Manulife, such as customer centricity, macroeconomic trends and strategy. Our shareholder outreach also became virtual, but we remained as dedicated as always to discussing what matters to our investors. For example, we held fulsome and robust conversations with shareholders on the topics of executive compensation, sustainability, cybersecurity and our preparations for the adoption of IFRS 17. And your Board continued to take an active role in Manulife's environmental, social and governance performance with our Corporate Governance and Nominating Committee reviewing the [Audio Gap] being made against Manulife's sustainability framework and staying informed of transits and opportunities in this area. While the world continues to grapple with the COVID-19 pandemic, we, at Manulife, are united by a powerful sense of togetherness and a firm belief that we will come out of this crisis stronger than ever. Before handing over to Roy Gori, our President and CEO, for his remarks, we'd like to review a few housekeeping items. The meeting is being broadcast in both English and French. To switch languages, please click on your desired language from the buttons above the presentation screen. Closed captioning is also being provided in both languages. If you join the meeting by phone, you will be able to hear the meeting, but you will not be able to vote or ask questions. Voting will be available online during the meeting for shareholders, policyholders and duly appointed proxy holders to be able to vote during the meeting, you had to have joined the meeting by entering your control number at the registration screen. Information on where to find your control number was provided in the meeting materials sent to shareholders and policyholders and posted on our website. We will provide instructions on how to vote at the appropriate time in the meeting. As is our usual practice, shareholders and policyholders are invited to ask questions, which we will respond to later in the meeting. Similar to the instructions for voting, to be able to ask questions during the meeting, you had to have joined the meeting by entering your control number at the registration screen. [Operator Instructions] Antonella Deo, our Corporate Secretary, will receive the questions and read them for all to hear. [Operator Instructions] Questions during the formal business of the meeting should relate to the matter being discussed. All questions should be of interest to all shareholders and policyholders and should not be of a personal nature. Questions of a general nature will be dealt with during the Q&A session following the reading of the voting results. If your question relates to a personal matter, we will contact you following the meeting to follow-up on your question. Following the CEO remarks, we will hold the formal business of the meeting, and we'll then move to questions of general interest from shareholders and policyholders. We are joined today by Andrea Rosen, Director and Chair of our Corporate Governance and Nominating Committee who will act as Chair of this meeting in the event that a technical disruption prevents me from continuing for any reason. Phil Witherington, Chief Financial Officer; Jim Gallagher, General Counsel; and Antonella Deo, Corporate Secretary; the rest of the Board of Directors, the external auditors and the scrutineers for the meeting, AST Trust Company, Canada, are participating electronically as well. We draw your attention now to the caution regarding forward-looking statements in the presentation slide. Comments made during this meeting may include forward-looking statements as defined in securities legislation. Actual results may differ materially from those expressed or implied in these statements. Please also refer to the note regarding non-GAAP measures used in today's presentations. Roy will now provide his remarks on Manulife.

Good morning, everyone. Welcome, and thank you for joining us. 2020 was a year that tested us all, challenging our resilience and determination more than ever before. At Manulife, we started the year building on our momentum to be the most digital customer-centric global company in our industry. When the COVID-19 pandemic hit, our focus shifted quickly to 2 key objectives: ensuring the health and safety of our team and supporting our customers who needed us more than ever. We helped customers who are stranded while traveling, we reallocated business teams to handle increased core volumes, and we proactively extended grace periods for certain premium and mortgage payments. We invested heavily in technology leading up to 2020, which meant that our teams were ready to help serve our customers quickly and remotely when the pandemic struck. Today, vaccines are being rolled out around the world, and frontline workers continue to do tremendous work to help protect us. We're also doing our part in reminding everyone that getting vaccinated against this disease is one of the most powerful things anyone can do for their health and the health of our communities, and it will not negatively impact their life and health insurance coverage. In fact, we're rewarding customers who hold our behavioral insurance products, Manulife Vitality and John Hancock Vitality with additional incentives and rewards for getting vaccinated. While vaccine deployment and uptake are accelerating, we're not out of the woods yet. Getting the economic recovery right will also be critically important if we are to come back stronger. We will continue to support individuals and companies of all sizes with their physical, mental and financial well-being. It's core to what we do, and we believe that our mission to make lives better is more relevant today than ever before. Now let me give you an overview of the strategic progress and results that we delivered in 2020. We achieved net income attributed to shareholders of $5.9 billion in 2020, up $300 million from 2019. We delivered core earnings of $5.5 billion, a decrease of 9% compared with 2019, reflecting the diversity of our franchise and robust demand for our products. In addition, our assets under management and administration continued to grow, finishing the year at $1.3 trillion, up 10% from last year. Our cost discipline enabled us to achieve $1 billion of sustainable expense efficiencies, reaching our 2022 target 2 years ahead of schedule. And we prioritized optimizing our legacy portfolio, which is reflected in the release of $5.9 billion of capital since 2018 and has further strengthened our capital position. We maintained a focus on Asia and Global Wealth and Asset Management, 2 of our highest potential businesses. In Asia, we extended our bancassurance agreement with Bank Danamon, Indonesia to 2036 and signed a new bancassurance agreement with VietinBank that will give us access to millions of new customers. In our Global Wealth and Asset Management business, we completed deals with Mahindra Finance and Albamen Capital Partners. And announced a strategic alliance with Allianz Global Investors, all of which will create exciting new growth opportunities in India and China. The fundamentals underpinning our global franchise remain strong. And we expect future demand for our products and services will remain robust, supported by macroeconomic and demographic mega trends, such as the rise of Asia's middle class and the aging global population. Throughout the pandemic, I've been inspired by the incredible heart, passion and can-do spirit of our global team and how they lived our values. Early on in the pandemic, we gave our team extra time off with additional paid leave to care for family or their own well-being. We also gave everyone a thank you day off in June and 5 additional personal pay days off in 2021 to rest, recharge and have some fun. Besides dealing with the impacts of the pandemic, we also made it a priority to ensure our company is a place where everyone feels they can be authentic and respected for who they are. So we are committed to invest more than $3.5 million over the next 2 years to promote diversity, equity and inclusion through expanded hiring commitments, education and community support for organizations helping black, indigenous and people of color. Now looking ahead, I'd like to share some exciting work that we're accelerating on our environmental, social and governance agenda with a focus on climate change, making sustainable business decisions is more than just the right thing to do. It creates long-term value for our stakeholders and communities. For us, this includes investing in the health and well-being of our team and our communities as well as supporting the transition to a net 0 economy. Today, I'm proud to announce our climate commitments, signifying our role as an active contributor in the transition to a world where net 0 carbon emissions are a reality. Our Climate Action Plan that we're releasing today builds on our company's mission to help people make their decisions easier and lives better. I'm proud to highlight, that our substantial natural resource holdings have enabled us to realize net 0 scope 1 and 2 emissions in our operations since 2019. Meaning we remove more carbon from the atmosphere than our business operations emit. We are committing to do much more. That means actively incorporating climate change considerations into 3 key areas: one, how we manage our operations; two, how we make investment decisions; and three, how we develop and offer financial products and services. I'd like to take a minute and expand on those 3 categories and our commitments. First, our operations. While we've achieved net 0 scope 1 and 2 carbon emissions in our operations, we are committed to further reducing these emissions 35% by 2035. Second, our investments. We are committed to steering our investment portfolio to be net 0 by 2050. We're taking a sector-based approach, focusing first on heavy-emitting industries, such as power generation. Within the next year, we will establish near-term emission reduction targets for our portfolio. And we will continue to grow our $39.8 billion portfolio of green investments, including renewable energy and energy-efficient buildings. Importantly, we are committed to the science-based target initiative to guide and validate our target setting measurement and reporting. Third, the products we offer can empower customers to make sustainable choices and build resilience in the face of climate change. As a global life insurer and asset manager, we understand the connection between our environment and human health. We offer our investment clients sustainability as standard, which means considering sustainability in all our investments made on their behalf. We're in a unique position to provide nature-based solutions to mitigate climate change through our sustainably managed forests and farms. We will accelerate the development of products that amplify the benefits of our timberland and farmland by developing products that capture even more carbon per dollar invested. In making these 3 clear commitments on climate, we're challenging ourselves to take a leadership role, setting a robust plan for our operations and our investments and committing to providing products and services that are part of the global climate change solution. We're proud of these commitments and will continually strive to advance progress. I look forward to keeping you updated on our journey to net 0. In closing, I'm proud of what we are able to accomplish in 2020. The support and excellent guidance of our Board of Directors and our Chairman, John Cassaday, were invaluable as we navigated such an unprecedented time. I'd also like to thank my fellow shareholders and policyholders for your ongoing confidence and trust in us. The pandemic has tested us all, brought heartbreak and loss to people around the world and challenged our resilience and determination. At the same time, it's reminded us of the power of community and the importance of gratitude and empathy. I am deeply grateful for the partnership and tireless efforts of everyone across the entire global Manulife team, and I sincerely appreciate all of their efforts over the past year. I wish all of you good health and good fortune. Thank you.

The Annual Meeting of Shareholders of MFC and Annual Meeting of Policyholders and the Shareholder of MLI have been now called to order. Antonella Deo will act as secretary of the meeting and Christopher Carbone and Pat Lee of AST Trust Company, Canada will act as scrutineers for MFC and MLI. [Audio Gap] The notice of this meeting was [Audio Gap] all shareholders and policyholders required to be sent such notice and the quorum requirements for the meeting have been complied with. Accordingly, this meeting is properly convened. We will now table the 2020 consolidated financial statements of MFC and of MLI as well as report of the auditor and the actuary on these documents. The 2020 consolidated financial statements of MFC were sent to shareholders in accordance with the Insurance Companies Act and applicable securities legislation. The [ 2020 ] consolidated financial statements of MLI were sent to policyholders in accordance with the Insurance Companies Act. Copies of these documents are available on manulife.com. Antonella, do we have any questions on the financial statements?

No questions have been received on this matter.

We will now table the information for participating policyholders of MLI, which includes summary of the [Audio Gap] policyholder dividend policy and the participating account management policy. This information can be found in the 2020 report to policyholders, which was sent to all participating policyholders who requested notice of meetings. Copies of the report to policyholders are available on manulife.com. Antonella, do we have any questions on the information for participating policyholders of MLI?

I can confirm that no questions have been received on this matter.

Thank you, Antonella. We will now proceed to the voting section of the meeting. Before commencing, we would like to provide instructions for how shareholders and duly appointed policyholders may vote using the online platform. To the extent that you have voted in advance of the meeting and do not wish to change the vote, you do not need [Audio Gap] anything. As we proceed through each item of business, those that joined the meeting using their control number, will see the resolutions to be voted on displayed on the screen as the item of business is being discussed. To vote, click one of the voting options available. Your vote will be automatically submitted for our scrutineers to include in the vote tabulation. Votes may be changed until the voting is closed on that matter. Once voting for a particular matter is closed and we move on to the next item of business, green will change to show the next [Audio Gap] business, and you will no longer be able to vote under this matter. If you have not voted in advance of the meeting and you do not press 1 of the for, withheld, against or abstain when voting is open, your vote will not be recorded, and you will be regarded as having abstained from voting. We will be voting on items of business for both MFC shareholders and MLI policyholders. If you are both an MFC shareholder and MLI policyholder or a [Audio Gap] for both, [Audio Gap] vote on all matters. If you are an MFC shareholder, but not an MLI policyholder or vice versa, you will see the items being [Audio Gap] for each company, but votes cast will only be counted towards the company of which you are a holder. Simple majority is required to approve matters voted on at this meeting. To facilitate efficiently proceeding through the business of the meeting, Antonella Deo, who is a shareholder of MFC and an MLI policyholder appointee, will move all resolutions. Preliminary results will be announced after voting closes for all matters, and final results will be posted on our website following the meeting. The first item of business is the election of the directors of MFC and MLI. You may either vote for or withhold your vote from each Director Nominee. We will now vote on the election of directors of MFC. The number of directors to be elected today as determined by the Board is 14. If you have already voted and do not wish to change your vote, there is nothing for you to do at this time. Information on each nominee is set out in the proxy circular for this meeting. [Audio Gap] directors are up for election for the first time today, each with expertise in areas critical to Manulife's ongoing growth. Nicole Arnaboldi is an accomplished financial services executive with a depth of critical wealth and asset management knowledge and Leagh Turner brings extensive experience in leadership, technology and driving transformational change and is a passionate supporter [Audio Gap] diversity. Antonella Deo, a shareholder, has agreed to move this resolution.

Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to nominate the 14 directors as set out in the proxy circular and as shown on the screen as directors of MFC to hold office until the close of the next Annual Meeting of the Shareholders of MFC or until their successors are elected or appointed.

Thank you. Antonella, do we have any questions on the election of the directors of MFC?

I can confirm that we do not have any questions on this matter.

Thank you, Antonella. Voting is now closed for the election of directors of MFC. We will now vote on the election of directors of MLI. The number of directors to be elected today as determined by the Board, is 14. There will be 5 policyholder directors and 9 shareholders directors. The participating policyholders of MLI vote for the policyholders' directors if you have already voted and you do not wish to change your vote, there is nothing for you to do at this time. MFC as the sole shareholder of MLI votes for the shareholders' directors. Information regarding the nominees is set out in the report to policyholders for this meeting. We will now proceed with the election of the policyholder directors of MLI. Antonella Deo, a policyholder appointee, has agreed to move this resolution.

Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to nominate the 5 directors as set out in the report to policyholders and as shown on the screen as policyholder directors of MLI to hold office until the close of the next annual meeting or until their successors are elected or appointed.

Antonella, have we received any questions on the election of the policyholder directors of MLI?

No questions have been received on this matter.

[Audio Gap] directors of MLI. We will now move to the election of the shareholders directors of MLI. As the sole shareholder of MLI, MFC has elected the shareholders directors by written resolution in accordance with the Insurance Companies Act. The 9 directors shown on the screen and as set out in the report to policyholders have been elected as the shareholders directors of MLI to hold office until the close of the next annual meeting or until their successors are elected or appointed. We will now vote on the appointment of auditors for MFC and MLI. If you have already voted and do not wish to change your vote, there is nothing for you to do at this time. Antonella Deo, a shareholder and policyholder appointee, has agreed to move this resolution.

Mr. Chairman, I move that Ernst & Young LLP, Chartered Accountants, the appointed auditors for MFC and MLI until the close of the next annual meeting at a remuneration to be fixed by the directors.

Thank you, Antonella. Roy Gori, a shareholder and policyholder appointee, has agreed to second this motion.

Mr. Chairman, I second the motion.

Thank you, Roy. Antonella, have we received any questions on the appointment of the auditors for MFC and MLI?

I can confirm that no questions have been received on this matter.

Thank you. Voting is now closed as it relates to the appointment of the auditors for MFC and MLI. We will now hold the nonbinding shareholder advisory vote on MFC's approach to executive compensation. Again, if you've already voted and do not wish to change your vote, there is nothing for you to do at this time. The Board believes that shareholders should have an opportunity to understand how and why the Board makes its executive compensation decisions and should be able to provide input to the Board on executive compensation. We take our shareholders' feedback seriously, and we'll continue to do so. Antonella Deo, a shareholder, has agreed to move this resolution.

Mr. Chairman, I move that the advisory resolution to accept MFC's approach to executive compensation as set out on Page 12 of the proxy circular be approved.

Thank you. Roy Gori, a shareholder, has agreed to second this motion.

Mr. Chairman, I second the motion.

Thank you. Antonella, have we received any questions on the advisory resolution on MFC's approach to executive compensation?

There are no questions on this matter.

Voting is now closed as it relates to the approval of the advisory resolution on MFC's approach to executive compensation. The scrutineers have prepared their preliminary report, and Antonella Deo will now present the preliminary results of the votes.

On the election of directors of MFC, all director nominees received at least 97% of the votes cast in favor.

I declare that all 14 director nominees have been elected as directors of MFC.

On the election of policyholder directors of MLI, all policyholder director nominees received at least 94% of the votes cast in favor.

I declare that all 5 nominees have been elected as policyholder directors of MLI.

On the appointment of the auditors for both MFC and MLI, more than 93% of votes were cast in favor of the appointment of Ernst & Young as auditor.

I declare that Ernst & Young LLP has been appointed as auditors of MFC and of MLI.

On the advisory resolution to accept MFC's approach to executive compensation, more than 92% voted for and less than 8% voted against.

I declare that the shareholders have accepted Manulife's approach to executive compensation. The scrutineers' report in final form will be recorded in the minutes of this meeting and will be posted on our website following the meeting. This concludes the formal business of the meeting. In closing, your Board would like to express our appreciation to Roy and his leadership team for delivering a year of solid results in an extraordinary year, all while continuing to go above and beyond for customers and engaging and inspiring the team with values-driven leadership. We also want to thank every Manulife employee for your unwavering commitment to our mission and values and the passion that you've shown in the face of intense adversity as well as our fellow shareholders, for your trust, support and candor.

We will now turn to the Q&A portion of our meeting. And as a reminder, to be able to ask questions during the meeting, you had to have joined the meeting by entering your control number at the registration screen. [Operator Instructions] Questions should be of interest to all shareholders and policyholders and should not be of a personal nature. If your question does relate to a personal matter, we will contact you following the meeting to follow up on your question. Antonella, do we have any questions?

Yes, Mr. Chairman. The first question is from [ Jeff Carlson ]. [ Jeff Carlson ] writes: The following question is submitted to management and does not need to be addressed during the meeting. Today's Manulife AGM, scheduled to begin at 11:00 Eastern Time, occurs on the same date and time as Great-West Lifeco AGM. Since shareholders of any one life insurance company are often shareholders of other life insurance companies. Such conflicts are inevitable. Unless such companies work with each other to ensure such meetings are scheduled appropriately. In fact, I am presently trying to attend both MFC's AGM and GWO's AGM simultaneously, very difficult. My question for management is what is Manulife's strategy on scheduling its future AGMs? And does it already work with other life insurance companies to avoid meeting conflicts? Roy?

Thank you for the question. And it's a very valid question. It's an important one. And what I will say is that we will take the feedback on board and look at our scheduling process to make sure that we really do minimize the potential of a conflict. So again, thank you for the question.

[ Mr. Carlson ] has another question also for you, Roy. I understand that restrictions have been put in place by federal regulators on insurance companies, which prevent those companies from raising their shareholder dividends. I also understand that those restrictions have not yet been lifted. I believe it is critical for Manulife to resume such dividend increases as soon as possible. My question is, what is Manulife doing, if anything, to convince regulators to remove these restrictions on increasing shareholder dividends? And once restrictions are lifted, what is Manulife's timing to resume dividend increases and get back on track?

Thank you, again, for this question, [ Mr. Carlson ]. I can confirm that OSFI's restrictions on dividend increases are, in fact, still in place. We did increase our dividend in Q1 of 2020 by 12% before the restrictions were implemented. And we clearly work very closely with OSFI and respect the regulatory prudence and process that they've established. We're in constant dialogue with OSFI and we'll endeavor to get back to a cadence of increasing our dividends regularly when those restrictions are lifted, in line with our policy to pay out between 30% to 40% of our core earnings.

The next question comes from [ Sharon Ing ]. [ Sharon's ] question is, I am both a shareholder and a policyholder. I would like to ask Manulife to do the right thing by fixing Manulife's overcharge errors for my husband's whole life insurance policy. Manulife has cut my husband's death benefit by $45,128, and increased his premiums by 127%. And even though he is paying 127% more in premiums, Manulife has still reduced his benefit by $45,128. In addition, my husband and I learned your company has miscalculated his premiums and overcharged him over the last 11 years. For more than 3 years, Manulife and Manulife AVP, Blair Anderson, have repeatedly refused to fix the overcharge errors and return the overcharge amounts to my husband. Manulife never took our complaints seriously. I complained at Manulife's Virtual Annual Meeting last year, but Blair Anderson still refused to fix the premium calculation errors and the overcharge errors. My husband is still being overcharged. Can you help? Manulife has continued to drive the issues out for more than 3 years. There is a second question from Andrew [indiscernible] on the same topic. So I will not read that question now, but turn it over to you, Roy.

Yes. Well, firstly, thank you, Mrs. and Mr. [ Ing ], for your question. And I'm deeply sorry for the experience that you've had. I can't specifically comment on matters of a personal nature. But what I will do is commit to ensuring that a member of my management team connects with you outside of this meeting to discuss this matter further to ensure that we get to a fair and equitable conclusion.

The next question is from [ Alan G. Lu ]. Has the Board and Risk Committee ensured the company has adequately managed the assets and investments to assure payment of enhanced components of all life policies? There have been 2 dividend scale reductions in the past 5 years, with the most recent dividend scale decrease having a most impactful and significant result on my life policy. How many policies has this impacted? And what percentage of all Manulife policies have been similarly impacted?

So perhaps I'll start, and again, thank you for the question. And I can't get into specifics of this particular case, but what I can say is that there are a variety of factors, including interest rates and a changing interest rate environment that affect the dividend scale for many participating insurance policies. But again, happy to have a member of the management team connect with you after this AGM to discuss this matter in detail.

Okay. We have several questions from [ Paul Morello ]. I will start with -- this is a general interest question that potential Manulife clients should be interested in. When selling a Manulife policy how many lies, misrepresentations, acts of general malfeasance and fraud, are the sales agents in Manulife allowed in their verbal and written promises. Please give us a number from 0 to 100, so clients can make an informed decision before buying a Manulife product. When there are negative consequences to the dishonest options by Manulife and their sales agents as listed above, and there are severe financial losses to the customers as a result of these dishonest actions, who is responsible? Manulife or the client? There are 3 other questions -- sorry, 2 other questions from Mr. [ Morello ], along the same vein. The second question relates to vanishing premiums and why after losing multiple class action lawsuits, on Manulife full life policies regarding vanishing premiums and Manulife paying out millions of dollars to their clients, for their dishonesty, negligence and recklessness, with their clients' retirement income, does Manulife slightly tweak and continue to sell similar policies against their customers' best interest? This was documented in the CBC Marketplace investigation, which revealed that these policies would totally at the client's best interest but make huge process for Manulife, please comment. And the third question is a similar vein. So I will turn it over to you, Roy.

Yes. Thank you. And thank you, Mr. [ Morello ] for your question. And again, I'm sorry that you've had an experience with us that has clearly affected you and made you displeased. I can't specifically comment on matters that are of a personal nature, specifically as it relates to your experience. So I won't go there. But I will say that we hold ourselves and quite frankly, our partners and our sales agents and advisers to the highest of standards as it relates to conducts, ethics, morals and processes. And we take all of those very, very seriously when we look at the governance that we, I guess, control against for each of the interactions that we have with our customers. So again, we would be delighted to take this off-line and have the member of our management team discuss your concerns with us in much greater detail. But I can assure you and all of our policyholders and shareholders that the organization holds itself to the highest standard as it relates to the ethics, morals and guidelines that we adhere to.

Mr. Chairman, I can confirm that there are no more questions in the queue.

Okay. Thank you. As there are no further questions, this concludes our meeting. Thank you all for attending and for your continued interest in Manulife.