Marex Group plc (MRX) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

All right. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to our next session here. I'm Ben Budish, I cover the U.S. brokers, asset managers and exchanges here at Barclays. And with us for the next fireside, we've got Ian Lowitt, CEO of Marex. Ian, welcome. Thanks so much for being here.

Thanks, Ben. I'm really excited.

Maybe just to start it off, Marex went public last year. You saw a lot of nice growth since the IPO. Just for anybody who's less familiar with the business, can you give a little bit of an overview of the story?

Sure. Yes, I think as you said, we went public towards the end of April of last year. Stocks performed very well. We were up 85% year-on-year and performance has been very strong. So I think pre-IPO, we're making sort of $230 million of PBT, and we're 75% ahead of that on a run rate basis this year with essentially doing a little bit north of $200 million in the first half of the year. So performance has been strong since the IPO and the stock performance has sort of reflected that, and we're obviously very pleased with that. In terms of the narrative. I think that post the IPO, we've really sort of delivered in a way that's sort of consistent with what people would have expected. Our business is one that is essentially about providing a really important part of the connectivity in the sort of ecosystem where people need to connect to exchanges. So people, I think, are very familiar with the exchanges and the clearing houses, what they may be a little less familiar with is how do clients just connect to those exchanges in a world where it's listed derivatives, so futures and options. And essentially, you need a clearing member if you're anybody other than sort of the very, very largest players in order to connect to the exchanges. And what Marex has done is built a business which is centered on our ability to connect clients to those exchanges. And that's a very sticky relationship. It's a very profitable relationship. It's a high-level relationship with those clients, and you can cross-sell very successfully execution services and additional hedging services. So it's in market infrastructure component of the market and one where it gives you a lot of opportunity for clients to come in and provide -- and you can provide them services either by providing access to market liquidity or clearing.

Before we dig into the business a little bit more, earlier this year, Marex was the subject of a short report, which made a number of allegations about firms accounting practices, among other things. I thought you provided a pretty strong reputation in the last earnings call. But since then, you've had more conversations with investors. Are there any lingering issues or outstanding questions you've been hearing that you'd like to address?

Yes. I mean, look, I've been very vocal about the value of being a public company. And I think we've got enormous benefit as Marex in terms of our brand and the way in which the firm is sort of perceived as a result of being a public company. Now being a public company means people can short your stock. It also means that there can be short reports without any sort of requirement to be accurate, but that's just all part of how the overall market functions. As you say, we refuted the sort of the points in the report. And I think that the investors who read the report looked at the points quite carefully and determined that there wasn't substance to the points that were sort of being made. And the conversations that we've had subsequent to the report coming out have actually been very heartening. I mean people took it seriously as did we. And we needed to and did sort of address the sort of concerns of investors, of debt holders and of our clients. And there really has been very good receptivity to that. I think people ask the questions, and they're very comfortable with the answers. And we've continued to see sort of clients coming on to the platform, increasing the amount of business they do with us, increasing the level of balances they have with us. And there really are no lingering questions from any of the constituencies based on all the conversations I've had and senior management have had with clients.

Great. Okay. So back to the business. The macro backdrop has been quite supportive, a lot of healthy volatility. Can you give us an update on what you're seeing most recently in terms of the operating environment? How is Q3 shaking up? Anything you can share there?

Yes. I think that the environment has been attractive in the sense that exchange volumes have been increasing quite steadily over a number of years. And certainly, over the last few years, we've had interest rates sort of rising and being quite a lot higher than they had been 5 years ago, even 4 years ago. And for our business, that's an attractive backdrop. And we've also had, historically, it's quite high volatility and volatility again, is sort of helpful to our business. As we think about the current quarter, it doesn't appear to me as though sort of the headwinds are sort of influencing us in a particularly negative way. And more to the point, the underlying momentum that we have in gaining share is offsetting some of those headwinds. I mean we always anticipated that rates would come down. They've obviously come down in '25 versus where they operated in '24. And I think that there's more conviction now that rates will come down again this year. And that's not something that we weren't expecting. But the effect on our economics is relatively modest. I mean I think we've estimated that 100 basis point reduction in rates over the course of a full year, something like $20 million of PBT. And our current run rate of circa $400 million, that represents sort of 5%. So it's not nothing, but it's not something that is overwhelming relative to other things that we could actually do to offset it. So the environment is probably going to be a little more challenging. But we've been growing the firm at 35% a year for the last sort of 10 years on average. We've had sequential growth every year. Certainly, based on the first half of the year, it looks like this year will be another year of fairly substantial sequential growth. And so we see sort of enough momentum in the franchise and the share gains and the extension into new products and new geographies and the impact of acquisitions that we have confidence that we're going to be able to continue to grow well.

So a lot of your growth historically or maybe not the majority, but helpful amount has come from M&A. You have a history of successful M&A, both on the top line and scaling up margins. Talk a little bit about the strategy there, your approach to integration. And maybe give us a little color on how some of your more recent acquisitions have been performing.

Yes. I mean acquisitions are an important part of how we're looking to grow. And I think that it's not so much that we're looking to grow through acquisitions as much as we're looking to grow the firm. We're looking to grow the firm because we see lots of opportunity for us to expand what we're doing with our existing set of clients and also to add new clients onto our platform. If you can broaden the set of services you can provide to clients, then that's a great vehicle to sort of grow. And if you can add new clients, that's again a great way to grow. Now you could do that organically, and we certainly have a lot of initiatives underway that will broaden our sort of product offering, in particular, as well as, in some cases, geographically. But we also recognize that to grow organically in some of these circumstances, particularly as you look to grow in certain geographies. It's just really, really very difficult. And so we look for acquisitions that are going to bring new capabilities and new clients and often give us presence in geographies, which we just see real challenge in building ourselves. So for example, earlier this year, we closed on a clearing business in the Middle East called Aarna. We were challenged by our Board when we brought that acquisition to them to say, well, could you have built this organically. And I think as we assessed it, we thought that it would be very, very difficult to build that out successfully. And that 3 years forward, we'd probably be way worse off than we would be if we made the acquisition, by way of example. So we made the acquisition. We were also anticipating fairly sizable day 1 synergies on the revenue side because they're a smaller firm, so they were generating less interest income on their client balances. And they're sort of terms of trade as a small firm that needed to go through clearing members also meant that they were making less on the clearing activity than they would as part of Marex. And as part of Marex, we actually saw almost immediately almost a 50% increase in its profitability just because they were making more on interest balances and they were paying less in order to get access to clearing exchanges. So that's a perfect example of us recognizing that it would be very difficult to build it ourselves and being able to acquire it. We've also made an acquisition in Brazil, another marketplace that we're very excited about, but also recognize that it's difficult to build. And probably the most significant success we've had recently is with sort of the acquisition of Cowen's prime brokerage business. We always anticipated that, that was a gap in our service provision that if we could offer that to clients would be something that we could make very profitable. The Cowen business was making something like $85 million of revenue when we acquired it in December of '23. And in the first half of this year, the revenue run rate of that business is about $200 million. So it does show how when you bring a sort of capability, you extend that capability and then put it on to our platform, it can actually generate meaningfully higher levels of profitability. And it's that combination of adding clients, adding products, broadening the firm geographically that we think acquisitions really advance our strategic agenda.

And maybe just following up there, can you talk a little bit about the current pipeline? I think you recently commented maybe 6 or 7 deals potentially live. So what kind of businesses are you looking at? And maybe how do you also think about larger-scale M&A? We saw one of your competitors not too long ago do a larger acquisition versus the smaller tuck-ins that have been more common for you?

Yes, look, I mean I think we have a very healthy pipeline. We often get questions about whether we think there's sort of some natural point where we won't be able to continue to grow as effectively through acquisitions. Our goal is to have 40% of our annual growth comes from acquisitions and 60% come organically. So if we're thinking about it in the context of our current levels of earnings, which are, call it, sort of 400-ish. That means that you're looking to add $80 million to grow at 20% a year, and we think that 40% of that should come from acquisitions. So we're looking to add circa $30 million to $40 million of earnings from acquisitions and then make those much more profitable in subsequent years as a result of being on the platform. We are seeing many, many opportunities. Those include some subscale sort of boutique capabilities where people believe that they'll be a lot more effective as sort of part of the Marex platform. It includes some quite successful midsized sort of companies. And then to your point, we are certainly open to larger acquisitions, but we also want to remain sort of very disciplined around returns. And we also want to make sure that whatever we acquire sort of fits very effectively within a Marex culture. I mean when we make an acquisition, we look to integrate it as quickly as we can and make it just part of Marex rather than run as a separate activity or business sort of stand-alone, we want to integrate everything quickly. And as a result, we also want to make sure that it's going to fit well within Marex. And those are all critical components in making those assessments. In the case of the acquisition that you referenced, it was one that we were aware of. It's one where we engaged. We didn't get very far down the road because I think we didn't think it was a good cultural fit for us. But certainly, it's an interesting acquisition for our competitors, and I know they're sort of very excited about it. But what we saw in the case of sort of Cowen is we were able to acquire something for $25 million of premium that it's now generating circa $100 million of earnings for us. So you don't have to go out and spend $1 billion to get $100 million earnings if you can get the right property and also integrate it and grow it effectively. So we don't feel sort of enormous pressure that you have to do the big deals, but we certainly are open to the big deals. And to the extent that those would fit well with our culture, and we think that we'll be able to deliver with a high degree of certainty on our financial targets, we'd certainly be open to those. But acquisitions are just part of the DNA of the firm now, we're looking to do 4-plus acquisitions a year. We have a very substantial pipeline. We have a large number of opportunities, and they go to all elements of the firm. So we see opportunities in clearing. We see opportunities in Agency and Execution. We see opportunities in market making, and there are even some acquisitions that would help our solutions franchise. So a broad range of opportunities. And I think as we have more and more success with acquisitions, it actually becomes a virtuous circle. And instead of seeing fewer, you end up seeing more.

All right. Maybe digging into a couple of your business segments, starting with clearing, sort of your largest part of your business. You've show some pretty meaningful balance in revenue growth over the last few years. But maybe just to start, how do you think about competitive differentiation in this business? Like what makes one clearing front better? How do you think about Marex's competitive advantage there?

Yes. I think that when we speak to clients and they explained to us why they're sort of coming to Marex, the themes are really the following. I mean they -- I think are enormously impressed with the range of sort of product capability that we have. So if you come to Marex as a potential clearing client, we can connect you to 65 different exchanges, and there's almost no products that we can't cover. So what clients say to us is they literally don't see a broader product offering than they see at Marex. Now what they also see at Marex is clearing being the heart of the firm and sort of the -- it's a thing that we devote an enormous amount of time and effort to be just absolutely expert at. And so when we're sort of competing for mandates, we're competing often against banks where -- so the clearing client -- the clearing offering is maybe the 10th or the 15th most important offering they're considering for a particular client. Whereas for Marex, it's the core of what we actually do. And I think clients feel that there's a level of expertise that we bring to bear when they talk to us about metals products or agricultural products or energy products or many of the financial products that they just don't see replicated elsewhere. Our systems are also newer, and so we can be more adaptable in terms of making adjustments to meet specific client requirements. And then the whole notion of how we service those clients and bring them on and their onboarding experience, I think, is also sort of differentiated. So because it's the heart of what we do, I think we're just differentially good at it, and we can offer sort of a broader and higher-quality sort of product than others. I think the fact that we're not a bank is seen by some clients as quite important because they don't want to only have banks as sort of their clearing provider. They like the fact that they're getting an investment-grade counterpart that is a nonbank FCM and isn't going to respond to periods of stress as banks do in aggregate and that, that diversifies their service provision. And for many clients, they've indicated to us that, that's critically important. So those are really the main ways in which I think our clearing offering is differentiated.

And maybe thinking from a P&L perspective, can you talk about the key revenue drivers. What are you seeing in terms of new customers, cross-sell versus kind of organic growth and existing products where they're active, adding new customers and maybe unpack a bit how this sort of sets the foundation for the rest of the business.

Yes. I mean it's a little hard -- what we're seeing is sort of a lot of clients looking to come on to the platform. And so every year -- and our pipeline is -- because it takes quite a while to onboard clients and clearing. We have a pretty rich sense of what that pipeline is and how many clients are likely to sort of join over a 6- to 12-month period. So we have sort of a sense that we're probably adding something like $750 million to $1 billion of IM from new clients each year. And that remains pretty robust in the sense that we're seeing more and more sort of clients being open to and sort of coming on to Marex. So just by way of example, one of the large trading houses that I think has only used banks historically and has -- is now coming on to our platform in Australia at some point in September. And some of the hedge funds who, again, have typically only cleared banks are moving books onto Marex -- and some of our -- and one of the sort of big trading houses has just moved another one of the sort of larger books sort of Marex. So we're gaining new clients and we're adding to the level of business we actually do. And then the other variable is just how much business individual clients are doing sort of within any particular area. And that's hard to differentiate between that and how much sort of cross-selling is going on. But there's a lot of cross-selling. There's a lot of new clients. And all of these things feel like they're virtuous circles, which mean that as I sort of look out over the next sort of series of years, I see those things as not diminishing, but actually getting larger. So as we get more credibility, as a clearer, it sort of opens up a bigger TAM and more large hedge funds or more of the largest trading houses will consider sort of coming to Marex. As we get better at sort of cross-selling and engage more with clients around the range of products that we have, that feels like it's accelerating, not decelerating. So that there is a number of reasons to feel that there's a lot of positive momentum in what we're doing.

Just following up there, one final question on the clearings side. So one thing we've noticed is that your transaction growth is outpacing your revenue growth, the revenue per transaction is coming down. Can you speak to that at all? Is that a function of product mix? Is it a function of serving, as you noted, larger hedge funds and trading firms? What are the key factors?

Yes. I mean what it absolutely is not is as a result of sort of pricing pressure per se. So what we find in sort of the clearing world is for smaller clients who, at their scale, it only makes sense for them to have a single clearer, there's almost like a market clearing price for clearing. And so long as you're within that band, you don't actually compete on price, you compete on service and a series of other sort of factors. And then if you're talking about the next level of clients who conceptually is big enough to have 2 clearers, there's another sort of pricing band that you have to operate in, in order to be competitive. But at that point, what sort of determines where the business goes, it's more a function of sort of the quality of service and the range of services you can provide. And then if you're talking about the largest clients who would typically have 3 to 5 clearers, again, there's a sort of pricing that's expected. And so long as you were in their pricing, again, you can win the business based on the quality of your service. And so what you're drawing attention to is the fact that our volumes are growing faster than our revenues because we're making sort of cost per contract. What we're also seeing is they tend -- we've also been making a lot of progress with clients who are more financially oriented, so people who are trading fixed income or trading some of the equity options. And there, the sort of price per contract is also lower. So what's driving this is not price pressure per se. It's about mix shift in terms of the size of clients, but also a mix shift in terms of the product. And the combination of those things is quite rapidly increasing revenues, quite rapidly increasing balances, but faster growth in volumes than revenues, but that's not concerning to us because our infrastructure is extremely scalable and the cost of servicing that extra volume is very low.

That's a good segue into the Agency and Execution business. And securities, in particular, you mentioned you're seeing a lot of growth in equity derivatives and things like that. So your securities business has grown quite handsomely over the last couple of quarters. Maybe talk about what you're doing to kind of drive that ramp? And what more can you kind of be done to continue that growth?

Yes, I mean, I think we made a strategic decision a number of years ago to sort of grow what we think of as sort of a financial franchise. So essentially clearing and doing agency and execution in financial products, whether those are sort of equities, fixed income, credit rates, even FX to augment what we were doing in commodities. So I think we thought -- at the core of the firm and its history has been around commodities. We recognize that if we really wanted to be able to deliver sequential growth through a whole range of market environments, it was necessary for us to diversify away from just commodities and to extend into sort of financials. I think we've had a great deal of success in that. It's a combination of acquisitions that we've made that have sort of created sort of a basis for that business, and that's been augmented by a number of sort of organic initiatives. And that combination has got us to a point where financials are now something like 40% of the firm. We think that you could get to 50% or even above 50% of our revenues coming from financial products. And it was a deliberate effort to diversify the firm to put us in a position where our earnings were more resilient across different cycle. So we've been able to increase profitability sequentially for the last 10 years. This year, it looks like it will be another sequential increase. And we want to set up the firm so that through a whole range of environments, we will be able to do that. And this investment we see as critical. And a lot of what we've been able to do in terms of driving growth and in particular, profitability is acquire businesses which were not at their full potential and restructure contracts with producers, improve the quality of businesses, sort of upgrade productivity, just make it part of Marex. And a lot of that growth is a function of being able to integrate those acquisitions successfully and expand them.

One of the concerns or questions I get a lot on the securities business is that it's perhaps more competitive, maybe more commoditized than some of your other offerings. I guess what would your response be? And how do you think about Marex's differentiation in trading securities specifically?

Yes. Look, I mean I think that what I would point to is just the success we've had in growing that out and getting our margins up sort of into the 20s. If we weren't competitive, then there's no way we would have been able to succeed in that particular way. So the question for me is almost a different question, which is what is it that we're actually doing that is what we would need to have done in order to generate that type of performance. And clearly, it can't be just providing very commoditized product in the face of sort of very extreme competition from very large players with some set of advantage because if you were in that real world, you just wouldn't be able to show the growth that we have been able to show. And I think that where we found those opportunities in the following places. And we see a big opportunity in Prime, competing directly with sort of the Goldmans or the Morgans sort of the world in terms of their prime offering. But in providing Prime or sort of firm somewhere between $100 million and $1 billion worth of sort of requirement. And that turns out to be a very attractive place to participate. You're not competing directly with what are very skilled and effective competitors, but they're not interested in clients of that size. So that's what we've done in Prime, and that's been very successful. I think the other thing that we've realized is the Agency and Execution business in securities is quite an attractive business and one where you can -- there isn't the same level of competition. There's a requirement for equity options, for single stock options, which is not met successfully by others. And when we've talked about it with some of our investors around sort of clearing single stock equity options by way of example, they say, well, we put out an RFP. We only had one person respond to it, it would be great to engage with you. So I guess the point I'm making is that there are components within the securities business, which are not just low-margin, heavily competed places. That's not where we play, and it's not where we would be -- expect to be successful. But there are many, many ways in which we can participate, which we are able to generate attractive margins. I mean one of the areas that just a surprise to me is just sort of the whole FX world to it. I would have thought from the outside in that would be it'd be very, very difficult to create profitable FX businesses, but it actually turns out that the spreads in the FX business are still sort of surprisingly robust, and you can actually develop quite an attractive FX business, even in a world where when you look at it from the outside in, you would think that there'd be very little chance.

Interesting. Okay. So maybe moving to market making. Q2 was pretty volatile for all asset classes, but I think your revenues were flat year-over-year. You had some very tough comps from 2Q of last year. Maybe just a high level, walk through what's important for this business. How do you benefit from volatility? What matters from a macro standpoint?

Yes. So look, I think that within market making, there's 2 things that drive it. I mean one is just sort of the volume of opportunity in market making. And then the second is, what's the bid offer spread that you're able to extract in making those markets. The higher levels of volatility usually or maybe almost always lead to higher bid offer spreads. So the environments that are attractive for market making are ones where there's a lot of volatility, there's a sizable bid of spreads and the volumes are quite high. So the comparison for us, which was the second quarter of last year was a particularly attractive marketplace in metals. And that was a combination of high levels of volatility, a lot of activity. And because there was uncertainty, many players who typically provide market making capabilities we're restricting how much they were willing to do, and that created even more opportunity for a firm like Marex. Now what we saw in the second quarter of this year, as you point out, was quite a lot of volatility. That was sort of helpful. We had our second best quarter in metal. So our metals franchise performed very well. The investments we've made in creating some market making capabilities in energy were also meant that we actually had good results in energy. Now that's not sort of competing with the big trading houses, but in some of the refined oil products. And the area that was just very tough in the second quarter, as I think we talked about on the earnings call, was in ags. So that's -- what you do find in certain markets is you're going to have high volatility and very low levels of activity because there's just not a lot of flow. Those are sort of the hardest markets to operate in. And that's broadly what sort of characterizes the ags markets at the moment.

Maybe moving on to how you finance the business. You've issued some senior debt recently positioned a little bit from a heavier reliance on the structured note program. How do you think about the funding mix over the longer term? And what should investors expect in terms of more issuance?

Yes. I mean, we want to establish a very robust U.S. issuance program. I mean part of the reason that we came to market in April with the debt offering was the view that we need to issue each year. And while we didn't have a need for the liquidity at that point in time, we did want to go out and sort of raise money in part to sort of broader the participation in the name, but also to get the market to a point where it sort of expected that we were going to be a regular issuer. And we're not going to get our spreads down to the levels we think they should be at until we have a very robust issuance program that sort of multiyear and the balances are sort of quite high in the levels of liquidity in our name or quite high. So we saw this as an investment in that, and it's a multiyear effort, I'm sure. And so we do expect to continue with that. I mean we were quite happy to do the issuance, it was $500 million. I mean, at that point in time, we really were unsure what the market changes were going to be with sort of tariffs and all of that good stuff. And we always felt that even if we didn't need it because the world was sort of very dislocated, we would be able to deploy that liquidity even if it was with a bit of a lag. So we're very comfortable doing that. And the market, I think, should expect that we are going to look to grow our public issuance programs. Structured notes are an important part of the firm's liquidity, an important business for us. So we're not looking to sort of changed that in any fundamental way. But I do think that the share of our liquidity that comes from public, the issued debt will go up relative to structured notes just simply because it will grow faster than structured notes will. We have just set up a capability to issue structured notes in the U.S. So we are investing in that and looking to broaden it out, but it won't grow as fast as the public issuance.

Maybe on the other side, in terms of allocating capital, we talked earlier about the M&A framework in terms of how much PBT you're looking to add or how much revenue you're looking to add every year. But high level, how do you think about the balance between M&A or other types of capital return, dividends or anything?

Yes. I mean, I don't think we've changed our approach to this. So what we described to the marketplace at the time of the IPO, I think remains the case, which is if we're making, call it, $400 million of PBT, we're going to be making whatever that is, $320 million, $330 million of profit after tax. That's a lot of capital generation. The first use of capital is to support organic growth and maintain an investment-grade rating. Beyond that, we look to return some amount of capital to investors in the form of dividends. We pick dividends as a way to return capital because we thought the signaling effect, particularly as a newly public company, was really, really important. And dividends were the most effective way for the Board to signal its confidence that the firm would be able to continue to grow to the marketplace. We do see substantial opportunities to deploy capital to create a lot of value for our investors through the M&A process. And while we see those opportunities to acquire things that call it 3 to 4x, so the goodwill -- the premium that we pay is sort of 3 to 4x what we're acquiring and then the opportunity to grow that as part of the Marex platform. That's a hugely value-creating way to sort of deploy capital, and we would look to continue to do that. The last sort of element of this is what about buybacks. And I think up until this point, our view has been that what we really wanted to do was create more liquidity in our stock and that buying back stock was really undermining that. Our hope would be at the time of the IPO to get to a point where we had $20 million of trading in our stock each day. Now we're over the most recent period, been operating well above that, so sort of probably closer to $50 million on average today. So I think that, that whole question of liquidity in our stock has sort of been addressed through managing down the overhang as well as sort of the interest of investors in Marex and the fact that we're now part of the Russell 3000 and a series of other steps that we've taken. And so now I think the whole idea of buybacks, while, I don't think we've changed our basic position on it, I think it just becomes something we would need to consider potentially differently to the way we have. But at the moment, our view is we can deploy the excess capital that we're generating very successfully in acquisitions, and that's the most value-enhancing thing we can do.

Maybe just one final question. You talked about this a little bit, talking about M&A and growth initiatives earlier. But can you kind of unpack what you're seeing and what you're doing more recently in some of the newer geographies, Middle East, your APAC expansion. You talked about being able to scale up through M&A, but where are you today versus where you want to be? How do you think about the sort of near-term, longer-term opportunities in there?

Look, I mean, what we've been trying to do in our strategy is increase earnings resilience, increase the diversification in the firm and create a firm that is able to continue to grow sequentially through a whole range of different market condition. Geographic expansion, to my mind, is really critical to that strategic objective because I do believe that there will be -- there just isn't the same level of correlation across the different geographies. And I think that there are clients -- really, really attractive clients in all of these different geographies that are looking to do business with firms that will feel sort of local to them. So if you're trying to clients in sort of Abu Dhabi, while they might actually be willing to set up with you in Dubai, in most cases, they just want to deal with an Abu Dhabi-based entity. So you really have to -- if you're going to attract and then service those clients, you do need to sort of broaden yourself out geographically. And we see tremendous opportunity to grow in the Middle East. It's a really attractive set of clients, very interested in the set of services we provide, very relationship oriented. So the Middle East, we think is a very, very attractive environment. And it feels like we're pretty early in our development. I mean we have quite a large office in Dubai. We now have an office in Abu Dhabi, but we really see a lot of opportunity there. I mean, similarly in Brazil. I mean, Brazil is a really viable marketplace, particularly for commodities. We have any presence there, but it's one of those areas that I think could grow very substantially. And similarly, Asia, we're very excited about the possibility of growing out there. And then the United States remains the largest market in the world by some substantial margin. And while we've made a lot of progress, we still see very substantial opportunities there.

Well, we're out of time. We'll leave it there, Ian. Thank you so much.

Thanks, Ben. Thanks, everybody.