Marshalls plc (MSLH) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

All right. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us on what is an extremely hot day, I think. So I think we're quite grateful to be in the air conditioning this morning, and thanks to those joining on line too. I'm here with Justin Lockwood, our Chief Financial Officer this morning to go through Marshall's half year results for 2024. And we've also got Simon Bourne, who just recently moved into the Chief Commercial Officer role for the Group as well. So what have we got in store this morning? Well, I've been in role now for just coming up to 6 months. And I wanted to build on some of those very first impressions that I shared with you back in March and then provide a short summary of the performance at the half year, before Justin leads us through the half year results in more detail. And then I'll come back and share a few thoughts and insights around the development of our new strategy, which we plan to communicate on the 19th of November, before opening up for Q&A. So let's get into the half year in review. So back in March, I shared some very first impressions, and I'm pleased to say that in the 6 months, those views have only been reinforced a strong portfolio of market-leading brands with national scale that have been strengthened by the recent acquisitions. And having now visited over 25 of our sites, some of them quite a few times and met hundreds of colleagues, I know that we not only have the benefit of having amazing breadth and expertise of talent but they have a very proud and passionate team who care deeply about this business. And all of this has only reinforced my view that this is a great business with huge potential for the future. So having had more time to get below the surface of the Group, it's clear that our Building Products division, which includes Civils and Drainage and bricks and Masonry businesses and our Roofing Products division, which includes Marley and Viridian, are in pretty good shape and positioned for growth as markets improve. However, Landscape Products has proved more challenging, the historical core of the Group is not performing to the potential that it has. We understand the reasons behind this and are moving at pace, taking the right steps to build on our market-leading position and build on the competitive strengths that we know we have. Now more positively, the group's strategy of diversification with acquisitions over the recent years is not only creating value, it's reinforcing our resilience and creating a more balanced Group. And it's also providing a platform for more growth and value creation, which I'll return to later. Now clearly, market conditions have been pretty weak over the last 2 years. However, the actions that we took back in 2023 were not only the right ones, they have reduced our cost base and underpinned our operational gearing to allow us to capitalize on the market recovery when it comes. And I can see significant opportunities for the Group to outperform over the medium term. So let me briefly summarize how I see things at the half year. We have delivered a resilient set of results across the Group as a whole in what have clearly been weak end markets, compounded by some pretty wet weather over the first half of the year, which has meant that activity levels on the ground have not been strong. Our Landscape business has experienced a more difficult period due to not only the market -- the weak market conditions, but some market share loss. However, I am confident and have a very strong view that we can significantly improve the performance through a number of self-help measures, which are well underway, playing to our strengths in specification in profitable segments of the market, like Commercial and New House Build. Strengthening our trading relationships so that they are mutually beneficial and simplifying our product offering, which has become overly complex in recent years. And equally, leveraging the strength of our national manufacturing and supply chain network, which is highly valued by our customers. And whilst doing all this, we're continuing to keep a tight control of our cost base and ensure that the Group organization is fit for purpose. So as a Group, we've continued to focus on our cash flow which has resulted in strong cash conversion and reduced net debt at the half year. And looking out to the year-end, I expect our profits to be broadly in line with the expectations we set back in March, which is predicated on a modest market improvement through the second half of this year. In the medium term, I am really excited by the potential of the Group. Our strategy development is well underway, and it is already highlighting a number of meaningful opportunities to unlock growth and drive outperformance through the cycle. And that is only reinforced by the new government's agenda to get Britain building again and the improving macroeconomic backdrop. So at the half year, let's summarize those financial results. Our revenue was down 13% in weekend markets and profit down 20%, reflecting the reduced volumes but also less favorable price and mix through Half 1. However, our focus on controlling costs, delivering the GBP 11 million of cost savings that we highlighted in 2023 and the continued discipline in managing our working capital has resulted in a reduction of net debt at the half year of nearly GBP 29 million. And our interim dividend is held in line with the policy at 2.6 pence. So before I hand over to Justin to go through these half year results in more detail, I'd like to take the opportunity to thank all my colleagues for their hard work and commitment over the first half of this year to deliver these results. They continue to go the extra mile every day in what are challenging markets. Justin?

Thank you, Matt, and good morning, everybody. So I'm going to talk through the detail of the results for the first half of the year, and that will include an update on the performance of each of our reporting segments and our cash flow performance. I'll then move on to an update on the strength of our balance sheet and our funding and liquidity position, before closing with some comments on our capital allocation policy. So starting with revenue. The chart on this slide sets out a year-on-year revenue bridge for the first half of the year, and it's split between our reporting segments. And you can see from a glance that the -- at the bridge that revenues are down by 12% on a like-for-like basis. So that's excluding the impact of the disposal of our former Belgium business last year. And you can see that revenues are down in each of our reporting segments. Landscape Products, as Matt has already touched on, delivered the weakest performance with like-for-like revenues contracting by 19%. And that reflected the impact of its exposure to the key end markets of new build housing and private housing RMI, which have had a negative impact on the whole of the Group, but particularly this segment. And also its exposure to the more discretionary end of RMI, some market share loss and a weak pricing environment. The performance in Building Products and Roofing Products, the reduction there has been much more modest at 6% and 5%, respectively, with the Roofing Products business benefiting from growth of integrated solar for Viridian. And that offset some lower volumes of Marley business. So moving on to operating profit. So as usual in these presentations, the operating profit numbers are stated after adding back adjusting items in order to show the underlying performance of the business. And it's these adjusted results that are used by the Board when evaluating performance and when contemplating dividend payments. Adjusting items in the first half of the year totaled GBP 5.1 million and principally related to the noncash amortization of intangible assets arising on acquisitions. And the detail of those items are set on Page 32, if you're interested in the detail there. So back to the adjusted results. And the chart on the right-hand side of this slide, sets out the component parts of the GBP 7.9 million or 19% reduction in operating profit year-on-year. And again, from Glancing at this slide, you can see that we reported a low profitability in both Landscape Products and Building Products. And that's been driven through lower volumes and a more challenging pricing environment, particularly in Landscape Products. Roofing Products though has delivered an increase in profitability year-on-year. and that's driven through an increase in contribution from Viridian Solar. And sat behind these results are GBP 4.6 million of cost savings that have been delivered from the restructuring exercises that we implemented in 2023. And I'm pleased to be able to confirm that we're on track to deliver the full GBP 11 million of annualized cost savings that we highlighted last year. The weaker margin performance in Landscape Products and Building Products offset the structurally higher margins in Roofing. And as a result, Group operating margin contracted by 0.7 percentage point to 11.1%. We do expect though in the medium term that we'll see an improvement in that particular measure as we see an increase in volumes and the positive impact of operational leverage. So turning now on to each of our reported segments, starting with Landscape Products. And as mentioned at the outset, this business has had a -- traded in tough market conditions during the period, due to its exposure to new build housing and the more discretionary end of private housing RMI. In addition, we have reported some loss in market share through certain channel partners. And against this backdrop, revenues contracted by that 19% year-on-year due to the lower volumes and the impact of weaker pricing in that really tough pricing environment. Segment operating profit reduced by GBP 7.1 million to GBP 8.3 million for the year. And that reflects the impact of lower volumes on both gross profits and on the manufacturing efficiency of our factories. In addition, we had a slightly less favorable product mix in the half quarter and the impact of that weaker pricing. Now that was partially offset by cost savings totaling GBP 3.4 million from the restructuring that we undertook last year. So moving on now to Building Products, where revenues contracted by 6% year-on-year, again, due to that weaker activity levels in new build housing. And within that reduction, we did see some growth from our Civils and Drainage business. And that reflected a pivot towards commercial and infrastructure end markets. However, that was offset by a weaker performance by our Bricks and Mortars business units, which have performed reasonably well in the first half of last year. Operating profit for this segment contracted by GBP 2 million to GBP 6.4 million and that reflects the impact of lower volumes, partially offset by cost savings totaling GBP 1.2 million. It's also worth highlighting that we have recommissioned some brick capacity in the first half of the year. And that reflects an improvement in order intake levels for facing bricks. And it also demonstrates the flexibility of the restructuring actions that we took last year, where certain facilities were mothballed and the knowledge that we can bring them back online when we see an improvement in volume -- in market volumes, and that's what we've seen here. So turning now to Roofing Products. So this segment was also adversely impacted by the weaker end market in new build housing. Big did benefit relatively speaking, from a resilient demand in both public and private housing RMI. And in addition, we reported revenue growth from Viridian Solar, and that's despite the reductions in new build activity. And that's because that business's market-leading product continues to be selected by house builders as part of their response to new energy efficiency building regulations. So taking that lot together, this segment reported a reduction in revenues of 5%, with growth in Viridian Solar being offset by lower volumes in Marley. Segment operating profit increased by GBP 1.2 million in the period to GBP 23.2 million. And that reflects robust price over cost discipline and improving manufacturing efficiency. And that was partially offset by the impact of lower volumes from Marley's products. So this slide sets out the profit and loss account from operating profit through to earnings. And as mentioned earlier, we reported a 19% reduction in operating profit to GBP 34 million. Profit before tax increased slightly fast -- sorry, reduced at a slightly faster rate of 20%. And that's despite a reduction in finance costs of GBP 1.3 million. And that reduction was driven through lower drawn borrowings and reduced lease interest finance charges. The effective tax rate is a couple of percentage points higher than it was this time last year. And that simply reflects the increase in the government's headline corporation tax rate in the U.K. And earnings per share reduced by 23% during the period to 7.9p a share, reflecting that weaker operational performance in the first half and the higher effective tax rate, and that was partially offset by lower finance charges. So now moving on to cash flow. And we've delivered really strong cash conversion with 111% of EBITDA flowing into operating cash flow on an annualized basis, and that reflects continued active working capital management in the first half of the year, and I'll touch on that a little more on the next slide. Finance and tax payments were lower year-on-year with finance charges being -- our finance payments being lower due to a lower charge and the timing of bank interest payments. And tax payments being lower because profitabilities have been reduced, and we have the benefit of an overpayment from 2023. Net capital expenditure was only GBP 700,000 in the period, and that reflects a gross capital expenditure of GBP 5.1 million, which in itself is about half the level of this time last year, when we're still completing work on the new dual block plant at St. Ives factory. And we're now in contrast, we're now focused on efficiency CapEx and maintaining our existing capital base. And that's because we've got a lot of latent capacity across the manufacturing network, and we don't need more capacity at this time. That GBP 5.1 million of gross CapEx was largely offset by a GBP 4.4 million benefit from our site disposal program. And for the full year, we expect gross CapEx to be up to GBP 15 million. So it could be a higher cash outflow in H2 than H1. The acquisition and disposal cash flow reflects a payment of contingent consideration under the Viridian Solar acquisition agreement. And we do expect a further payment on the final payment under that agreement in the first half of next year. The derecognition of leases of GBP 24.4 million is driven by our logistics and outsourcing and a number of HGVs and trailer leases have been novated over to Wincanton. And you take all that lot together, and it results in a reduction in reported net debt for the period of GBP 34.6 million. So now turning on to the balance sheet. Now this slide sets out a number of measures focused on working capital management returns and balance sheet strength. And you can see from the table on the right-hand side of the slide, the debtor days, creditor days and inventory turn are all broadly in line with this time last year, and are in good shape and do reflect the active working capital management. But it's worth highlighting that we do intend to build some inventory in the second half of the year, because we want to make sure we're well positioned to benefit from the market recovery when it comes. Returns or return on capital employed reduced by 3 percentage points to 7.6%, and that simply reflects the weaker operational performance over the trailing 12-month period. And we do expect to get back to our medium-term target of 15% when markets recover. And we benefit from operational leverage and the efficiency actions that we've taken in recent years. Leverage reduced from 1.9x at the December '23 year-end to 1.8x at the half year. And we expect that measure to reduce further in the second half of the year. And the balance sheet has been strengthened during the period with a reduction in pre-IFRS 16 net debt, as Matt touched on earlier. And I'll talk in more detail about that on the next slide. But we do expect that continued cash generation to continue to strengthen the balance sheet and progressively deleverage. So now turning to funding and liquidity. So as a recap, the Group has a single syndicated bank facility, which totals GBP 340 million, and it comprises a term loan of GBP 180 million on a revolving credit facility of GBP 160 million, and about 95% of that matures in April 2027. Thus giving the Group a secure source of medium-term funding. Pre-IFRS 16 net debt in the last 12 months has reduced by GBP 28.8 million and about GBP 17 million of that reduction was delivered in the first half of this year. And we closed the half with net debt at GBP 155.8 million. The chart on the right-hand side of the slide sets out the pre-IFRS 16 net debt over the last 5 reporting periods. And you can see that there's been a progressive reduction in net debt during that period with over a GBP 50 million reduction in the 2 years. We've got very comfortable covenants -- headroom, sorry, against our covenants with interest cover at 5x, and that compares to a covenant minimum of 3x and leverage at 1.8x, and that compares to a covenant maximum of 3x. And very significant headroom against our debt surges at June of GBP 145 million, giving us that capital to support our plans going forward. And finally, on to capital allocation. There have been no changes in the capital allocation policy during the period. We continue to focus on reducing net debt, and we've talked a little bit about that already and on maintaining dividend cover at 2x adjusted earnings. And the interim dividend of 2.6p per share is in line with that policy. So with that, I'll hand back to Matt.

Thanks, Justin. So I wanted to take the opportunity to share some initial insights into the development of our new 5-year strategy, which is well underway and that we'll present at our Capital Markets Day in November. So importantly, as we develop the strategy, the macroeconomic and market backdrop is increasingly encouraging with a modest improvement in conditions through Half 2, which we're already seeing with inflation back under control, a cut or first cut in Bank of England base rates, reservation rates for new houses and consumer confidence improving and a progressive recovery forecasted by many commentators from 2025 for the U.K. economy and the construction sector as a whole. Now I welcome the new government's positive agenda to get Britain building again. and the drive to improve the planning process to facilitate the target of building 1.5 million new homes in this parliament. Naturally, this will take time to impact and gain momentum, but we are committed to supporting this ambition. Equally important to Marshalls is the implementation of the Water Industry's next investment cycle, AMP8, a much-needed investment in water supply, surface water management and infrastructure drainage. And also the commitment to renewables emphasized by comments recently by Ed Miliband, which includes solar to support the transition from a more -- to more energy-efficient homes and buildings, which I'm sure in time will extend to reducing embodied carbon in buildings too. So our strategy review is allowing us to get under the bonnet of our business and deepen the understanding and clarity we have of our end markets, how they're segmented, where the real value is, our routes to channels and routes to market and the customers that are important to us, too. And importantly, where the strength of our businesses and our brands can play out most strongly. Now what is clear is we have some enviable market-leading positions and models in our core scale businesses of Marshalls Landscape and Marley Roofing. Our Landscape business has a unique and distinctive national model that provides sources of true competitive advantage from our product ubiquity and availability. Which we know is hugely important to customers looking for surety of supply as markets recover to the expertise and value that we bring in our design and specification model in key segments of commercial, new house build and consumer scape. And it's supported by a national network that enables not only cost synergies but also sustainability and distribution benefits, too. With Marley Roofing, we have a clear market leader with a huge track record of superior value creation over many years. It's built on investing and developing a very loyal installer base that values Marley's specification of a full roof offering, including integrated solar. And these are the things that can ensure Mali commands the strong premiums that it has for many years. Now how we leverage these strengths will be central to our new strategy. unlocking more growth and higher volumes as markets recover and ensuring we capitalize on the strong operational gearing that we have in both these core scale businesses. So it's worth remembering that back in March, we shared a chart that illustrates a return to 2019 volumes has the effect of doubling profits and improving margins by over 500 basis points. So beyond our two core scale businesses, the other recent acquisitions have increased our exposure to some very attractive markets with strong tailwinds. Firstly, integrated solar and energy transition through Viridian. We expect strong growth through the increased uptake and adoption of solar PV, driven by regulation, whether that's [ par tell ] or the forthcoming future home standard, and we see no reason why the penetration of solar in new house building in England and Wales should not mirror that, that we have seen in Scotland at 80%. And Viridian is incredibly well placed to capitalize on this growth and drive profitable returns. Secondly, in water management, there are significant growth tailwinds in waste water, surface water management and drainage. This market will benefit from the expected recovery in house building supported by the government's targets but also from the incremental water industry investment in the AMP8 cycle, which is at a significantly larger level than the previous cycle. Our Civils and Drainage business, which came through the acquisition of CPM, primarily operates today in the new house build sector and some commercial infrastructure. However, these tailwinds offer us the potential to grow our offer to tap into this growing market. And finally, Concrete Bricks will benefit from the increase in house building too. And the increasing adoption of concrete as a more sustainable alternative to clay. As a body carbon in buildings becomes increasingly important through this cycle. Our concrete bricks business, which came through the acquisition of Edenhall, has continued to grow its market share in these challenging markets. What we can see through the review is a very wide variation in adoption rates across the U.K. that points to a significant opportunity for future growth and the outperformance of this business. And all these recent acquisitions present opportunities for us to lock -- unlock more profitable growth and create greater value. Now why do I believe these opportunities are things that we can address. It's because as we go through the review, I'm increasingly confident about the competitive advantage that we have in this Group, whether it's our scale and national footprint, the operational excellence or gearing in our core scale businesses of Landscape and Marley Roofing to our market-leading brands with strong positions across all the sectors that we compete in. And to our significant technical expertise that drives product differentiation that we know our customers highly value. And we're also developing centers of innovation in more sustainable technologies like solar and energy transition, water management and concrete bricks. And all of these advantages leveraged in the right way will help us to meet the needs of our customers and tackle the increasing challenge of a more sustainable built environment, and they will all help us to become a partner of choice for our customers over the next cycle. So look, you'll hear more about that at the Capital Markets Day event, but I'd like to just bring things to a close with a short summary. So the Group has delivered a resilient performance in challenging markets through the first -- the first half of this year. A modest recovery is expected through Half 2, and against an improving macroeconomic backdrop, and we do expect our full year profits to be broadly in line with the expectations that we set earlier this year. And as to the medium term, most commentators and forecasters expect the U.K. economy and the construction sector as a whole to grow through the next cycle. And that is only further supported by the government's agenda to keep Britain building. Marshalls as a business is really well operationally good to capitalize on this anticipated recovery. And finally, through our strategy review, we are deepening our understanding of the opportunities to create more value through what is a far more diversified Group with access to some increasingly attractive markets with strong regulatory structural and sustainability tailwinds and look forward to sharing more detail of that in November.

Thank you very much. And we'll now open the floor to questions, if Simon and Justin want to join me? Brilliant, right, where should we go first?

Johnny [ Kuber ] from Deutsche Numis. Could I ask firstly on the spare capacity within the business today? And how much volume capacity you think you have for when the market does pick up? Second question would be on the price cost mix in the second half. And then thirdly, you mentioned, Matt, that concrete bricks have seen varied adoption rates. It would just be interesting to hear where the particular strengths are? And I'm thinking if the government's housebuilding driver is focused on more of an affordable product, how you see that product playing in there?

Well, maybe I'll pick up the third one, and then I might come to Justin and Simon for the other two. I think with concrete bricks, yes, I mean, we talked about the significant variation in share across the U.K., there is nothing that's related structurally to the way we operate in the U.K., that means that share shouldn't be similar across the entire U.K. It's about how we get after that. And that's one of the things that we'll be sharing our Capital Markets event in November. And we certainly believe that through the government's agenda, we have an incredibly vital role to play in supporting that housebuilding and the adoption of concrete bricks is that more sustainable alternative to clay. So we see a real positivity in that. And again, we'll share more details around what that means in November. Justin, do you want to...

Yes. In terms of capacity, it varies across our business units, but if you worked on somewhere between 25% and 30%, given indication of the available incremental capacity. And in terms of the price and volume mix in H2, if you recall, when we came to talk to you in March about the performance last year, we had talked about Landscape products entering a tougher price environment in the second half of last year. That's what we're seeing project forward into the first half of this year. But of course, as we move into the second half of this year, the comparatives on the pricing become much softer. So for the second half of the year, as a whole, we're expecting volume and price to be broadly flat year-on-year.

Rob Chantry, Berenberg. Just 3 questions for me. So firstly, on landscaping, obviously, 19% like-for-like kind of revenue decline. How much of that can be really attributed to, I guess, kind of abnormal performance and a limited number of product categories? I know historically highlighted Indian sandstone and stuff like that? Is there kind of a distribution or a skew in the kind of performance of that business? Secondly, again, on landscaping, can you just remind us of the market structure and you said you're ceding market share, pricing is competitive, any relative winners? Is it kind of a [ EDE ] kind of difficult for everyone? Are there any exits in that market? How is that changing? And then thirdly, water. I mean it's kind of pretty clear that you're talking about it more. I guess that was GBP 70 million of revenue or so last year in Civil and Drainage. In terms of the upside you see there, is that really white space in the new kind of water review categories? Or is it displacing incumbents, et cetera? Is it new products? So can you just, I guess, add a bit more detail around the scope of growing that GBP 70 million and that's how it's coming through.

Simon, do you want to pick up on the Landscape, please? Yes, and then I'll pick up on Water Management.

Yes, absolutely. So I think -- we're all well aware that the market generally has been tough, and particularly in those late cycle kind of offers such as Landscape. So the market generally is tough and we did allude to the fact we lost some market share. You asked about -- is there any relative winners out there. I think we've lost it regionally to kind of smaller players out there in the market. And price has been under a lot of pressure and therefore, our premium offer has equally been under pressure. As we've seen the market coming back towards us, our product offering. And as Matt alluded to earlier, the national scale that we've got, will turn into an advantage for us as we move through the rest of this year and into 2025. So we fully expect volume to come back towards us as that materializes over the next few months.

Worth saying Simon, there have been no significant exits from the market. So the capacity, the only permanent capacity reduction that I'm aware of is the action that we took at one of our factories in Scotland.

I'd probably just add to that around our customers. I think Simon's underplanned the role that he's taken as Chief Commercial Officer. He's been out with all of our customers. They are all wanting to engage with Marshalls. They understand as the market recovers strength that Marshalls has in its national distribution, and it's product availability and the ubiquity of that offer. I think the second thing that we're working on is absolutely the clarity of the portfolio we offer, it has become overly complex. It's not as clear as it needs to be. And so your value propositions in the different segments of the market are not as clear as they need to be. And Simon and the team are driving that through the business at this very moment to get that back because it's about playing to our strengths. It's what used to be there, and we'll have that clarity back. And that will mean as the market comes back, those volumes start to come back clearly to us of the right value, and that's really important. So just in terms of Water Management, I think the question was around is it white space and where do we play. Look, we primarily play in new house build today in some commercial infrastructure drainage. There's parts in the market that we don't play in, but we believe we have capabilities that will allow us to organically grow our offer into those markets. And with the level of investment coming in, we believe there's plenty of space to play a bigger role. I think not wanting to fore run our Capital Markets Day, we'll talk more about the detail of that in November.

Toby Thorrington from Equity Development. I think I've got 3, please, maybe one for each of you First of all, maybe one for Simon, could you give us an update on the logistics change that happened, which I think was fairly new news to us all at the beginning of the year, how that's sort of progressed and at the risk of conflating 2 completely separate things together. Has that fed in to market share loss at all?

I'll take the latter part first. No, I don't believe it has. We've transitioned fully now over to Wincanton. The initial transition went very well. The first couple of months as they got to understand our business in a bit more detail. We did have some low-level service impact. It's fair to say. That has now recovered. The focus now is on how we drive efficiency through that fleet with Wincanton and get more and more efficiency through use of our own vehicles rather than extended 3PLs. So where we're at the moment, I think, has gone in line with expectations.

Remind me what the other -- the question was?

Market share.

No. I don't believe we've lost any market share as a result of logistics, not at all.

I mean I'd just add to the fact that when you go through a 3PL transition, you expect some bumps in the road. We've managed that really well. Service yet, a bit bumpy at times, but it's been recovered really, really well. I mean the key is as the markets recover. This partnership is only going to go from strength then the efficiency that we drive through the network will get better and better.

You guys don't have the problems in a low-volume market then...

Exactly that, exactly that.

Yes. Okay. And perhaps the supplementary there for Justin. Could you sort of quantify maybe in percentage terms, the effect on gross margin from moving from an outsourced logistics or an in-source to an outsource logistics, presumably there's an OpEx, there's a COGS cost there, it wasn't there before.

Well no, because it's -- you're replacing an outsourcing logistics. The change is that you've got some degree of reduction in finance costs because we previously had lease finance associated with HGVs. And that will be replaced by an operating profit impact. So if you look at post IFRS 16 numbers, then it does have a modest impact. You're talking about GBP 1 million of geography in the P&L account with finance costs moving up into operating costs. But the other components of logistics costs are just in the same place. They effectively reports as part of cost of goods sold.

So just to clarify, the finance cost, has that gone up into OpEx or up into COGS?

Well, it's gone up into COGS, but you -- given how we report things, you can't see that anyway. So it's just part of the operating cost.

All right. Sorry. And final question, should we be expecting any more exceptionals in the second half either on the debit or credit side than sales or anything like that.

I think we're done with the major land sales, there are one -- there may be a little bit more cash flow -- positive cash flow impact in the second half year. But it's not going to be anything which touches the adjusting items now. I mean the adjusting items are you got a land sale in there of GBP 1.7 million benefit, and you've got the contingent consideration charge so an increase in the expectations of what we'll pay out on that, which really relates to how well that business, Viridian Solar is performing.

Any more questions?

Stephen Rawlinson from Applied Value. Can you just touch upon two things. Firstly, you haven't mentioned during the course of this presentation, I think with regard to unit costs. Could you just talk a little bit, please, about the impact of those and whether the customers are putting pressure on you to take the benefit of any reductions that you're seeing in unit cost of energy, in input costs of materials and so on? Could you just talk us a little bit through that, if you don't mind, please?

Yes. So unit costs within Roofing, the Roofing business are a touch lower year-on-year because of lower gas prices. Across the rest of the business, on a net-net basis, cost of raw materials is broadly flat. Given that we've got some degree of, well, lower manufacturing volumes in the first half of the year in Landscape Products, there is a touch of an increase in the unit cost because you're recovering the factory overheads over a smaller volume, and that's just reflected in the numbers. There's no real significant impact in Building Products or Roofing Products in that regard.

And secondly, just a structural is. It may be something more for the end of November than for now. But obviously, over the last 3 to 4 years, you showed the 5-year picture for the reduction in the net debt. But just think 5 years back, there have been changes in routes to market. Is it something that you could be talking about today? Or would you want to save that until the end of November and around companies going directly to you for facade materials rather than going through merchants and other materials. Is there have been significant changes there we need to be mindful of, including also digitization and the way in which that might affect, routes to market?

Yes. I mean I think you probably answered the question yourself, which is as part of the Capital Markets Day, that's what we're looking at as part of the strategy review. But do I see significant changes in routes to market from where we are now? The people that we work with today will remain vitally important to us. Well, things like digitization, increase our opportunities to do some things differently, yes. But I think we'd share the details of what that would look like at our Capital Markets event. But yes, I mean, the people we work with today, our customers today will remain really important to us as we travel, certainly through this cycle.

Sam Cullen from Peel hunt, I've got three. First two are kind of related, and you might push me into November -- anyway. But in terms of the areas you're playing in, you've mentioned a couple of kind of higher growth markets on kind of solar and drainage. Are there other areas you think that you're not playing in, which are going to grow faster than, let's call it, core landscaping going forward, do you think the business needs to be in? And then related to that, is there enough kind of cross-selling within the Group based on what you've seen in the first kind of 6 months?

Let me answer the first question. I mean I think the portfolio of businesses and brands that we have, I'm really content with and I see a real opportunity for us to drive organic growth. from those businesses into the opportunities that we can see. And we'll highlight more of that again as we travel forward for the Capital Markets Day. So that kind of answers that one, I think, hopefully. Simon, do you want to pick up on the other?

Yes. I can do. In terms of the cross-selling point, Sam, I think it depends on the opportunity. Clearly, there are certain routes to market that wouldn't warrant us going down a cross-selling market, it would depend on the customer, it would depend on the specific scenario. There are clearly opportunities there to kind of have conversations across business units. And we will eke out any significant opportunities that arise from that. But I think it needs to be specific to customers, and it needs to be right for Marshalls as a business overall.

Just build on that. I think one of the things that we don't play hard enough across the Group is we're incredibly well networked across our different businesses into the different end customers. And we need to make sure that where we have strong relationships, we leverage them back into other parts of the business where that relationship might not be as strong. And I think that's something we can do better. It's part of what we've been driving is to have this more connectivity across the business and the leaders, and I think that's working well. It's certainly something Simon is driving in his new role.

The last one is just on freight rates, more sort of short term. Obviously, they've been spiked up quite rapidly. Do we need to -- go watch them continuously? Or is there any concern for you guys at that?

Well, our procurement team is constantly watching freight rates. The most -- if you think about a couple of years ago, we had a really significant impact on our natural stoning ports from India and that results in the landed cost of those products doubling. The volumes of those products is really quite low at the moment. The market has reduced quite considerably. Our biggest exposure on freight rates is for bringing solar panels and flashings in from China, and we'll continue to manage those effectively. But if you think about the value of product in the container, when it's solar equipment as opposed to stone, there's a very different dynamic. So it's a much smaller proportion of the landed cost. So it isn't particularly significant for us. But we do continue to monitor. And I think we're buying pretty well.

Any more questions in the room?

A few questions on the webcast. Our first question is from Charlie Campbell from Stifel. A couple of questions, please. Has Landscape lost any major customers in the period? And what is the penetration of solar in England and Wales, new build now, compared to 80% in Scotland?

Simon, do you want to take the first one and Justin the second?

Yes. So in terms of losing major customers, the answer is no. Absolutely not. All those customer relationships are still intact, and we continue to trade with those businesses. What we have seen is, obviously, share within that customer base has been impacted, and that is primarily due to the pressure on price. The word that I'm undertaking at the moment is to reestablish our position and we're fully confident that we'll take some of that share back over the medium term.

And on solar penetration, it's quite difficult to be specific about levels of penetration as we stand today. If you look at it on a more historic basis and go back to 2023, and the penetration be around about 10%. So we expect that to grow very quickly, and it is doing as we speak.

Great -- the next question is from Emmanuel from LBV Asset Management, asking what is your approximate market share in Landscaping? And what would be the share of the #2 player?

So between -- the market share will be between 40% and 45%. And the next biggest player will be around about half of that.

What we're doing in the strategy is get into the detail of that because to be honest, it's quite hard to come to those figures with the sources we have. So as part of the work we're doing will get us to a real fact base around that share where we've lost it, but also where we plan to win that back, which I'm confident that we will do.

Brilliant. And the final question is from Gavin Laidlaw from Stockwatch. It's another one on Landscape. How many SKUs do you currently have? What is the target number for simplification? And is there a trend for locally sourced products versus, say, India Sandstone?

Okay. In terms of the actual number of SKUs, I couldn't honestly answer that, but there is far too many. It is a very, very complicated portfolio of products. what we basically got is quite a broad range and not necessarily the right product lender going vertically. So we do have gaps in our kind of value-add write-down to our kind of more commoditized type products. That is where we need to kind of address in terms of infill in that perspective, but we need to narrow the range in terms of its breadth. And we're already underway with that. In terms of the -- there is still a place for value-add products within the offer, and we're certainly having those conversations now with key accounts and key customers. There has been, obviously, over the last 18 months to 2 years, more focus on and certainly desire for commoditized products due to price, but we feel that we're moving out of that over the next few months and into 2025.

I mean I think, look, with the Landscape, it's like a lot of scale businesses that have grown over time and then lost a little bit of discipline in their product life cycle management. The range becomes overly complex. You're not clear about the portfolio and its role in the marketplace. It's got far too long a tail. The benefit of taking out the complexity is not only in the clarity of offer to our customers, but in the efficiencies that we drive back through our manufacturing network by having higher volumes on our most profitable core lines, and that pays dividends. And that's not something that happens immediately, but it can happen at a reasonable pace as you get that clarity. So there's more benefit right the way back through the business by having that clarity. Was that it online? It is -- if there are any more questions in the room, I just want to say thank you for being with us this morning. As I said, I think we delivered a resilient performance in the first half of this year as a Group. And I am hugely excited, as I know Simon and Justin are about the work that's on through the strategy review and how that's going to help us drive outperformance over the medium term. So thank you for joining this morning.