Maruti Suzuki India Limited (MARUTI) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q1 FY '25 Earnings Conference Call of Maruti Suzuki India Limited. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Pranav Ambaprasad. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Darwin. Ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon once again. Welcome you all to the Q1 FY '25 earnings call. May I introduce you to the management team from Maruti Suzuki? Today, we have with us our Chief Investor Relations Officer, Mr. Rahul Bharti; and CFO, Mr. Arnab Roy. Before we begin, may I remind you of the safe harbor? We may be making some forward-looking statements that have to be understood in conjunction with the uncertainty and the risks that the company faces. I'd also like to inform you that the call is being recorded, and our audio record and the transcript will be available at our website. And please note that in case of any inadvertent error during this live audio call, the transcript will be provided in the corrected information. The con call will begin with a brief statement on the performance and outlook of our business by the Chief Investor Relations Officer and the Executive Officer, Corporate [ Planning ], Mr. Rahul Bharti, after which, we'd be happy to receive your questions. I would now like to invite our CIRO, Mr. Rahul Bharti. Over to you, sir.

Thanks, Pranav. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for joining us. Before we come to the results, first, I'll share the major business highlights of the first quarter. In April '24, the company, at its Manesar facility, commissioned an additional vehicle assembly line, having the capacity to manufacture 100,000 units per annum. With this additional assembly line, the total manufacturing capacity at Manesar facility stands at 900,000 vehicles per annum. The company launched its fourth generation Epic New Swift in May '24. As a market leader, the company took on the responsibility to reenergize the hatchback segment, at a time when this segment really needs a catalyst for growth. The fourth generation of Swift is equipped with a modern Z-Series engine and loaded with a host of new technological features that make the product [ high ] in safety, comfort and convenience and very friendly for the environment. So far, the consumer acceptance for the new Swift is overwhelming. We are confident that the new Swift will bring excitement in the hatchback segment. In a constant endeavor to enhance customer convenience, the company keeps augmenting the sales and service network to reach closer to customers across the country. Recently, the company achieved a significant milestone of setting up over 3,000 ARENA sales outlets and over 5,000 service touch points. The company is also accelerating its efforts to increase the share of sustainable and renewable energy across its operations. The company is using multiple sources of renewable energy, such as solar power and compressed biogas. The company's captive solar capacity stands at about 43.2 megawatts at peak as of financial year '23-'24, and is targeting to scale it up to 78.2 megawatts peak by financial year '24-'25. The company has established a small biogas plant at Manesar, which started operating from June '24. Given the local availability of biofuels, the company is very optimistic on the potential and the role of biofuels towards the decarbonization journey. The customer acceptance for CNG vehicles continues to increase. And in quarter 1 of this fiscal year, every 1 in 3 cars sold by the company in the domestic market was a CNG vehicle. Now we come to the business performance in the first quarter '24-'25. The company sold a total of 521,868 vehicles during the quarter, higher by 4.8% compared to the same period previous year. In the quarter, the sales in the domestic market stood at 451,308 units, up by 3.8% over that in quarter 1 financial year '24. The export sales were at 70,560 units, a growth of 11.6% over Q1 FY '24. In domestic market, the demand for [ PVs ] was muted to some extent, largely due to the heat wave and elections, which kept many potential customers away from our showrooms. Recognizing this challenge, we enhanced our efforts to reach out to customers through various means. Additionally, we launched the New Epic Swift and also introduced the Dream Series to generate excitement and interest among potential buyers in the small car segment. We also increased the capacity to -- for supply of Ertiga and the supply of CNG vehicles as a segment. To further get the attention of customers, we raised our discount offerings, making our products even more attractive. As a result, despite the less-than-ideal market conditions, we could achieve retail sales nearly at par with the previous quarter. We also get a sense that there are indeed customers in the market that might be waiting for an auspicious period or a more attractive time or some reasons to make their purchase. We are further increasing our focus on improving retail sales. Going forward, a better monsoon season, coupled with the onset of the festive period is where the industry is [ depending ] its hope. It may be noted so far that industry performance is broadly in line with the indication given at the start of the year. Going ahead, one should keep in mind the high base of the industry over the last year, while assessing our growth expectations. On exports, the company continued to maintain a healthy growth in sales volume. The company gets nearly 40% share of India's total passenger vehicle exports in quarter 1 financial year '25. Coming to the financial results. During this first quarter, April to June financial year '24-'25, the company registered net sales of INR 338,753 million as against INR 308,452 million in quarter 1 of financial year '23-'24. The net profit for the quarter rose to INR 36,499 million from INR 24,851 million in quarter 1 '24, a growth of 46.9%. This was broadly on account of cost reduction efforts, favorable commodity prices and foreign exchange. Since investors look for a sequential comparison also, let me share. On a sequential basis, the raw material-to-net sales ratio has softened to the tune of 90 basis points. If you recall, we had a one-off adverse element in Q4. So in quarter 1, out of the 90 basis points improvement in the RM-to-net sales ratio, about 60 basis points is contributed by reversal of this one-off element. In addition, in Q1, there were some marginal benefits of commodities and ForEx, which was partially offset by increased discounts. The other factor for margin expansion is of operating income. This had -- comprises of various income such as scrap sales, extended warranty, income from businesses, et cetera. There is some seasonality in this side, as we had seen in Q1 last year also. The operating income has contributed to margin expansion to the tune of 70 basis points. Besides, the manufacturing and admin expenses also contributed to margin expansion to the tune of 30 basis points. As the volume has sequentially reduced by 10.5%, there is negative impact of operating leverage to the tune of 80 basis points. Employee costs usually increases in Q1 due to factors like wage increase and has some seasonality. There was about 30 basis points increase in advertisement expense, owing to the Swift launch and the T20 World Cup. So summing up this, it explains the increase in EBIT from 10.8% in quarter 4 financial year '24 to 11.1% in quarter 1 financial year '25. We are now ready to take your questions, along with my colleague, Arnab [ Roy ]; and your feedback and any other observations that you may have. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Pramod Kumar from UBS.

Congratulations on what appears to be a very good set of numbers, operationally. Rahul, my first question is on the data point on discounts, as to where were the average discounts for the quarter, sir? Because you did say the discounting pressure has increased. So what is the average discount be incurred this quarter for vehicle?

We were about 21,700 approximately.

So that compares to [ 14,500 ] discount what we had in 4Q, is that right?

Correct.

So just help me understand this about the margin [ point ] what you have posted, because whatever you said there is no one-off as such in terms of any lumpy item or any one-off gains as such. And where would be our operating utilization right now? So at what levels are we operating in terms of capacity utilization at the [ plant ] level?

So capacity utilization, we are around 85%.

So we are nowhere close to the kind of capacity utilization, where some of our peers are operating. We have very high discounts in most of our categories, and we had operating deleverage, which was quite [ severe ]. So what I'm trying to understand is like what is driving this kind of margin level as well? Is it the CNG-led mix, which is kind of gating our margin or profitability to an extent of the product [ looks ] itself within CNG, automatics and other things? So if you can just help us understand the reason for this resilient margin? Because as a [ sheet ] -- our employees expenses have also gone up meaningfully, even on a sequential basis. And now other expenditure have not reduced meaningfully quarter-on-quarter despite the operating deleverage. So what I'm trying to understand is that effectively this kind of adverse environment, if you're reporting this kind of profitability, what should one expect if the operating environment gets better in terms of both demand, discounts and new launches, I think? Just trying to understand, are we looking at a much significant operating margin band for the company going forward?

Okay. I'll try to answer your question. So I think if you see here, although as Rahul had explained, we had a higher discount. But we have some favorable impacts also, as Rahul had explained. We had a favorable impact on commodity. We had a favorable impact on ForEx. So there has been some [ severities ] already in the results, so which is factoring into this. That's predominantly contributing, yes. And overall, there has been a prudence on cost, which also we highlighted some of the points, like we had a good saving on power and fuel, we had some good savings in other operating costs. So all of that is contributing to this mixture.

And how important is mix of elements, sir?

Pramod, we mentioned that -- it depends on many, many factors, so we don't take too much into account. As a market leader, our effort is to cover every segment, every product, every power train and cover the maximum. So we don't pay too much attention to the mix.

Fair enough. Sir, on the demand environment, if you can just help us understand -- you did call out heat wave and other impacts. But how do you see the demand from your vantage point currently, given the introduction of Dream Series? And how is the inquiry and other general [ bookings ] and all that are kind of shaping up? And how should one expect the festive season to shape up? I understand the higher base. But sequentially, how should one read the demand trend from hereon? And any signs of any green shoots or any bottoming out of demand in entry-level category?

Okay. See, first of all, let me mention that India is at a very good level already. 42 lakh car sales in the domestic market last year globally compares very well. And India has a lot of potential also going forward. We have a long way to go. So along the way, if there is some lumpiness or there are some commas or full stop or semicolons, it does not matter much to us in the extreme short term. We're here for the long term. And in the beginning of the year, we had mentioned, as industry body SIAM had mentioned that this year, the growth expectation is not very high. Now that could be because of several reasons. It could be because we've grown up quite a bit in the recent past. So the market takes a breather. It could be for several other reasons also, like election or the heat wave, et cetera. But broadly, the fundamentals in India are intact. Of course, the short term is muted, and we all know that. But we are not worried about demand. We are more worried about being able to deliver what the market needs, that is more important. So we have to strengthen our entire chain, our vendors, et cetera. And demand will come sooner or later. I mean, we have to. And when you talk about granularity, so rural is doing better than urban, it continues to do. For us, it has been -- rural has been doing better than urban for a long time now. But I hear that there are other segments like 2-wheelers, like FMCG, which have suddenly shown some improvement. In terms of small car segment, we did have 2 -- so we -- as I mentioned in my opening thoughts, we launched an exciting new model like the Swift. We had some Dream Series limited edition that hence generate some excitement in the market and keeps bringing the customer back to the showrooms. So to that extent, we are trying to arrest the decline. But we are -- we think India has a long way to go.

The next question is from Raghunandhan N. L. from Nuvama Research.

Congratulations on strong margin performance. Sir, my first question was on the raw material cost. In opening comments, you indicated that RM Q-o-Q basis has -- or gross margin Q-o-Q basis has improved by 90 basis points. Out of that, 60 was one-off. So remaining 30 would be largely from commodity and ForEx benefit, would that be right understanding? And also because recently nonferrous, there was some increase. Do you see any commodity price increase happening for Q2?

I'll take your question. So if you see, it's contributed by few commodities. Like if you look at it from a December quarter versus -- the March quarter versus a June quarter, steel has been favorable to the extent of about INR 2.5 per kg. And also, on the [ precious ] side, we had some favorable impact. So both are contributing to the commodity.

Got it, sir. And going forward, do you see any negative impact?

It's a continuous moving thing. You have to keep monitoring. Very difficult to put a crystal ball and say whether it will change, which way. But it's a continuous moving thing.

My second question was on the demand side. So number one, as you alluded in your comments that rural is doing better, so are you seeing this improvement in rural, the share of first-time buyer? I think pre-COVID, it was 47%, 48%, and it has come down to about 40% to 43% in FY '24. Are you seeing that this segment coming back? And how do you think that could [ enact ] positively support the hatchback demand maybe by second half of next year? That is one part. Second, if you can also talk out recently in UP, there was a road tax rebate on hybrid. So has that been implemented? Are you expecting other states also to follow? Your thoughts on that.

As far as the first-time buyer percentage is concerned, that remains fairly flat around the level you mentioned, between 40% to 43%. And so in UP, we have seen that the policy that they had announced in October [ '22 ], it was not implemented because of some very operational reasons in the Vahan database. So that implementation has happened. And so customers are now getting the benefit of that, thanks to the UP government on to tax [ over ] and on strong hybrids.

Got it, sir. And lastly, sir, if you can share the exports number for Q1, export revenue and royalty revenue -- I mean royalty percentage? And also, if you can talk about which regions you are seeing growth in exports?

Okay. Exports number for Q1 was [ 70,000 ] -- export number was [ 70,560 ] numbers. And your second question, the royalty was about 3% or 3.5%.

I was referring to export revenue numbers, sir.

You want the value terms, okay, just a moment. So the export revenue was about [indiscernible]. You are looking at [indiscernible] or looking at total number?

Total numbers, sir.

INR 4,481 crores.

And your thoughts on which regions are doing well? Recently also we had an export month where number was [ more than 30,000 ] in a single month. Where are you seeing the growth? And how do you see the outlook? Would you retain that 3 lakh kind of outlook for full year?

Yes. As of now, we believe that 3 lakh is an achievable number for the full year. So the growth regions were Middle East and Latin America. They have shown good growth. And so now all 3 zones, Africa and Latin America, Middle East are at a high. And the Jimny has become the largest exported model in Q1, followed by Dzire, Baleno, FRONX and Grand Vitara. And fortunately, we are well diversified across about 100 countries. So we are fairly derisked also.

The next question is from Kapil Singh from Nomura.

Congratulations on the strong performance. Just one clarification before I ask the question. So this quarter, raw material to sales, does it include any element of reversal, did I understand that correct? And what is the nature of that?

So what I mentioned in the opening thoughts were, in the previous quarter, Q4, there was a onetime adverse element of 80 basis points. In this quarter, Q1, there was a reversal of -- within the 90 basis points improvement in raw material-to-net sales ratio, the element of reversal of that onetime was 60 basis points.

Okay. So sustainable margins, if one has to see, one has to adjust for that [ 60 ] basis points, is that the right way to look at it?

No, I mean there is -- so the current level is what we are looking at, if nothing else changes for the future.

Okay. Okay. Perfect. That helps. Sir, one question was that we are seeing pretty healthy ASP and margins also. Is there a thought process here that you redeploy some of these gains to drive a stronger volume growth, given that market conditions are looking tougher? And where are your inventory levels right now as well?

So there is no such thought at the moment. We'll have to look at the market closely. And it's not necessary that -- it's not an automatic phenomenon that you infuse something into the market because we don't know how long is the benefit of commodities. So it's too early to make any such assessment. And our inventory was at a fairly manageable level, slightly higher than optimal. So normally, we talk about, say, 30 days. If you go below 30 days of inventory, then there would be some variance, some color, which is not available for the customer. So 30 days in any case, we should maintain. At quarter end, we were at about 37 days, which is fairly fine, manageable.

Sure. And second question was on hybrid. Just where the current taxation regime is in India, do you see hybrid as a technology being viable? And would you be investing in this technology for future products at current level of taxation?

Good question. So it's a very potent, powerful technology. It is nationally very beneficial because without the challenge of charging infrastructure, customers can widely adopt it, it is scalable, and it gives you a 35% to 45% fuel efficiency improvement. It gives you a 25% to 30% CO2 improvement. So both the national objectives of CO2 reduction and oil import reduction are strongly met by this, and it seeks to convert pure petrol/diesel engine cars into hybrid cars. So it is a technology that we are quite positive about, optimistic about. And of course, along the line, I would believe all other stakeholders would also see the benefits.

Okay. What is the experience from UP market? Is there a significant increase in adoption after the change by the UP government?

I think too early to conclude.

Next, we have Binay Singh from Morgan Stanley.

Three questions from me. First is last year in Q1, you called out that staff was -- there was a sort of retention payment that you have done. There was an 80 basis point one-off in staff, and we did see staff costs actually taper down in the following quarters. Any number you want to call out in this quarter on staff, which is specific to this quarter?

Yes. I think it was not one element, I think there's a combination of this. Usually, if you see from a trend perspective, I [ will give you ] the quarter when you had the wage increases and other [ trends ] which comes. So that's part of a normal trend, which is coming. Of course, there were some offsetting effect of what we have just said. So that's one of the things which is coming in. And mainly the wage inflation part, which has come in this quarter. So it's a net of both.

Okay. So I think like last time, I think we called 80 basis points as one-off on retention-related payments and...

So not 80 basis points. It was about...

The total was 80 basis points across several factors.

Okay. Okay. Okay. So similar, in a way, trend will play out this year, broadly.

Are you able to hear us?

No, we couldn't hear your response.

So Binay, it's a combination of two, three ways. So it was not 80 basis points. It was in the range of, I think, 20 to 25 basis points, which was there in terms of the numbers. So that is definitely -- I mean, it's a one-off that we'll [ keep in inventory], it has come back, which has got offset by the regular wage increase which is there in the quarter. So what you see is a net impact of that, which is fairly, I would say, at a percentage [ traded fairly ] at a similar level.

All right. And sir, secondly, just on the CAFE theme, we do understand it's very stringent. Is there a full clarity that they will get implemented from April 2027? And secondly, if so, some of your peers are saying that they need to sell 20% to 30% of portfolio as electric vehicles to be meet those norms. What percentage will Maruti target to meet those norms?

At least on the date part, I think there's a fair amount of convergence that it should begin from 1st April 2027. What CAFE does is, it allows you a portfolio of several technologies. Each one of them have their own CO2 footprint. And the weighted average of that should be within a particular target. That target is itself determined by the weighted average mask the curve -- curve mask of the cars -- of the fleet. So you need -- the whole portfolio weighted average has to be cleaner than the past. So it's -- people can adopt multiple paths. They can put more weightage on a particular technology. Each manufacturer will follow his own strategy, powertrain strategy or CO2 strategy. So it's flexible.

So even the super credit, which I understand for EVs, PHEV, HEV, different and penalty, is that finalized now that the [ 3:1 ] super credit and the penalty per vehicle, if you don't meet the norm?

The penalty was enacted in the Energy Conservation Act. So that is already in [ hard print ]. The super credits, and there are some off-cycle CO2-reducing technologies, and there are some volume derogation factors which are under consideration by the policymakers.

We have the next question from Amyn Pirani of JPMorgan.

Most of my questions have been answered. But basically, I just want to go back to the first-time buyer. Now, would it be fair to say that as the share of first-time buyers have come down, within first-time buyers, the salience of small cars have also come down? Because now we have a lot of micro SUVs and small SUVs, which are also attracting a lot of small -- a first-time buyer. So can you provide some color as to, say, for a FRONX or a Brezza? Are you seeing an increasing number of first-time buyers, which earlier used to come mainly for, say, the Alto or Swift [ probably ]?

Am I audible?

Yes.

There is some amount of upward shift of the first-time buyers, which is a healthy trend. But that cannot explain the entire decline in the small car segment. So while the first-time buyer percentage is fairly stagnant, as I mentioned, between 40% and 43%; there is a marginal decline in small and compact cars also.

Okay. Okay. And could you just like put a broad number, say, for the FRONX, its first-time buyers like 20% or 50%? I mean, any broad [ pain ] is something that you can provide?

Not really. I mean data does not invest in that granularity.

Okay. Okay. Okay. And secondly, so you have addressed a lot of SUV white spaces in the last 2 to 3 years. And as every year goes by, new SUV categories or subcategories are also coming up. In the next 18 to 24 months, when we think of the launches that you may have, is the micro SUV category or, say, FRONX below kind of a category, something that you would look at? Or is that something that you think that we should be looking at?

See, two parts I will give my answer in. One is we don't generally comment on future product pipeline. But we've made a statement that by the end of the decade, we'll have 28 models from currently 18. So at least 10 more new models to be added, plus some existing ones would probably have some refreshment or some replacement. So more than 10, practically. And it has to happen in the next 6, 7 years. So definitely, a lot of new models will be added. Now we will go where the customer is. So wherever we find a sizable chunk segment in the market, we will be targeting that segment with a new product. So wherever the volume is, our product portfolio will match up.

Next, we have Gunjan Prithyani from Bank of America.

I had just a couple of follow-ups, very quick one. One on the order book, if you can share where it stands? And the mix that you usually give, how much of it is from CNG or [indiscernible], if you can give those details?

So CNG is seeing a very good traction in the market. Today, 1 out of every 3 cars sold in India -- sold by Maruti Suzuki is CNG. The other very interesting trend is that in India, CNG has overtaken diesel for the first time in this quarter. There are many new geographies, states, which were contributing very less, but which have become quite active -- which are growing at a very healthy rate. Rajasthan, Karnataka, Tamil Nadu, Madhya Pradesh, in Kerala, for example, Bihar, which have started coming up on CNG, both from a small base. So that's a positive, and it's good for all because it avoids oil import, it reduces CO2 and it's economical for the customers also. It's not seen as a low-cost solution any longer, very premium models have CNG. So that's a positive.

Okay. And that's good to hear. I'm just trying to see if there is a backlog to sort of think, which we have serviced more in the [ quarter ] because the last time order book had quite high composition of CNG. So if you can share where order book stands? And as a percentage of CNG for a full-year basis also, this is something which we can still continue with roughly around 33%, 35% share of CNG for full year basis?

So for the full year, we had given a kind of guidance of about 600,000. And in this quarter, we -- I think we've done about 100 -- we've done slightly less than 1.5 lakhs. So hopefully, we should be on track, if nothing else goes on the gas price economics, et cetera. And we have also increased the supply of CNG vehicles and the production capacity of Ertiga because Ertiga has a high CNG percentage. So now these models are fairly accessible to customers.

Okay. Got it. So that mix tailwind should continue. Okay, my second question also is on this sales to the OEM. That is certainly seeing a meaningful jump, right, from almost doubling with the number of models being shared, with Toyota increasing. Is there like a sort of broader thought process you can share with us? How should we think about growth or volumes in that category? Increasingly, the number is becoming significant, right? So any thought process on how we should think about volume targets here or growth here? And are there any models that you can share from here also which are -- which can potentially come under [ co-badging ] in fiscal '25 or '26, whatever you can share for us to think through this?

So this is something that we'll have to play by the year and keep watching the volumes. Future products or [ co-badging ], et cetera are not in -- will announce when it comes to it. So -- but the good part is it is incremental sales for us. So nothing better than choosing another channel to increase your sales.

Okay. Got it. Just last one. On the FX, you did call out there is an FX tailwind in this quarter. With the reversal that we are seeing in yen now, yen appreciating, the -- is there something that we should keep in mind while thinking through the margin sustainability going ahead? Is there a large element that reverses or the FX is very, very marginal? Any thoughts there?

So depending on where you are comparing. If you compare from the March quarter to June quarter, yes, there is improvement, but the increment is not to that extent. So there is some improvement. But if we see from the time like the '24 to Q1 '25, then the improvement is bigger from a yen perspective. Going forward, I think you would have already seen that there are some reversals which are already happening. So there will be some moderation vis-a-vis observe how the moderation happens. But if you ask me at this point of time, I think there will be some moderation to yen, for sure. And this is what the macro looks like.

The next question is from Chandramouli Muthiah from Goldman Sachs.

My first question is on the topic of SUVs. If I just look at your mix, just adding utility vehicles and vans, FY '19, it was about 25% of your domestic volumes. In 1Q FY '24, it was about 36% of the domestic volumes. And 1Q FY '25, it seems to be 45% of domestic volumes. So just trying to understand, I think, for the full year FY '24, close to 60% of domestic car volumes was utility vehicles plus vans. And as you plan your capacity and your model launches for the next 5 years of growth, just trying to understand if you're trying to target SUV mix to be beyond that 60% that the industry enjoys today in volume mix?

So our expectation is that this upward trend may continue for a while. And the current -- nobody knows the future, but current -- the 50% may go up to, say, 55% or 60%. And on top of that, there is, as you said, the NPVs. So even in our future product plans, we have to appropriately address this market segmentation. And one aspect that we have taken care of, as you rightly mentioned, in the next 5, 6 years is we have made our production lines flexible so that any segment change shift we are able to be agile to the market.

Got it. That's helpful. My second question is a slightly more futuristic question. I think Suzuki is investing in a battery manufacturing plant in India. I think production there is potentially expected to start in CY '26. So I just want to understand, initially, do we plan to first start with assembly of the battery packs? Or do we think that we can start with cell manufacturing around that time frame? And just in addition to that, if you can shed some light on if there's any battery chemistry preference that the company has? At this point, most electric cars in India seem to be running on LFP technology. But Maruti has thought out of the box in the past. So just trying to understand, what your sort of battery chemistry thinking is in-house at this stage?

Okay. The existing plant that we have, which manufactures cells locally, the TDSG plant, that uses LTO chemistry, lithium titanium oxide. And that is making sense locally for -- basically for hybrid models. On the other Suzuki project, we'll just take a view from them what is the latest. But of course, it will not be ready to meet [ SOP ]. So we'll just check the Suzuki status also what is the plan status, project status.

The next question is from Vivek from JM Financial.

Sir, I have two questions. So you talked about being technology-agnostic. So without asking specifically on a single product, by when can we see a product portfolio of about 2 products on each of the technology types? That's my first question.

Feel free open -- I mean I have not got your question. So can you ask openly? Not a problem.

So basically, we have talked about CNGs, hybrids, EVs to be part of our portfolio. So when we talk about all these technologies and say that we are technology-agnostic, by when can we see about 2 products each on this technology?

Products from each technology?

Yes.

Good question. I can tell you that if you're asking about EV, for example, we will be displaying it in the motor show, the Auto Expo, the Bharat Mobility Show in January '25. And of course, we have total 6 EV models lined up all the way to 2031. And the second one is also close behind. So we are strongly on that. On strong hybrids, we already have 2 models, the Grand Vitara and the Invicto. On ethanol flex-fuel vehicles, we have, at the moment, talked about one model, the WagonR. Before we get into the second model, we'll have to look at how ethanol supply in the country pans out. But we'll be very positive, and we won't be found lacking of our ethanol flex-fuel vehicles. On CNG, we already have a number of models. And so that completes the portfolio as of now.

So effectively, let's say, extending the first question, by FY '27, probably, we could have 2 models each on new technologies, possibly?

I can't say. See, EVs, for example, we'll practically be launching one model every year, practically speaking. So on ethanol flex fuel, we'll have to watch the ethanol scenario in the country when we go to the next model from the first to the second.

All right. And my second question is, sir, what is our plan for volume expansion on hybrids? We believe that it's a very strong technology that will work well for the Indian market. But with or without the benefits from the government, what is your plan for volume expansion over there? That's all.

So it's a dynamic situation. We do not know what the government plan will be. There are so many policies. There are so many bodies, centers, states. So of course, our effort is to keep increasing, and we'll see as we go along.

Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. And with this, we conclude today's conference call. On behalf of Maruti Suzuki India Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.