MAS Financial Services Limited (MASFIN) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q3 FY '21 Earnings Conference Call of MAS Financial Services Limited hosted by Edelweiss Broking. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Jigar Jani from Edelweiss Broking. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Inda. Good afternoon to everyone who has joined on the call. On behalf of Edelweiss Broking Limited, I welcome you all to the Q3 FY 2021 Earnings Conference Call for MAS Financial Services Limited. To discuss the earnings and the business strategy we have with us today, Mr. Kamlesh Gandhi, Chairman and Managing Director; Ms. Darshana Pandya, Executive Director and CEO; Mr. Ankit Jain, CFO; and the senior management from the company. I now hand over the call to the management team, who will give us a brief overview of the operations and the business strategy, post which we can have a Q&A session. Thank you, sir, and over to you.

Thank you, and good evening, everybody. I would like to start this session by paying our heartfelt respect and tribute to our departed Co-founder, my brother, my father and my mentor for 54 years, Mr. Mukesh Gandhi. While we are in this brisk, but the family and team MAS is very resilient and confident of marching ahead on its mission of excellence through endeavors. And as a hallmark of a true leader, Mukesh Gandhi, in order to focus on his health, had passed on the execution responsibilities to his next team in 2018 itself, ensuring a very seamless and an efficient transmission. So may his soul rest in peace, while we'll miss his dearly, but we have decided to remember always -- to remember him always fondly and carry on with the same vigor on our mission of excellence through endeavors, and we are confident of doing the same. Now coming back to the performance on the quarter. As we know, we are slowly moving out of this pandemic era, and hopefully, we should be out within next 2 quarters in terms of the overall health and vaccination also in place and so on and so forth. And we expect the businesses also to come back to normal within a quarter or so. But as we are all aware about our strategy that we have always been a cautious funder, and we always put precedence to quality and profitability over just building up the books. And this quarter was no different for us in terms of how we executed our strategies this quarter. The first and the foremost, the strength of any lending institute is its capital. We spend on a very solid capital adequacy of 30% plus, with a very strong liquidity of INR 1,000 crores plus, and overall, a very stable asset quality at 1.33%. And if you take the Supreme Court dispensation at 1% net NPA. But however, we focus on that 1.33% in all our execution plans. So with a high collection efficiency, with a cautious approach on disbursement because we personally believe that as soon as the economy starts, we'll have to wait for some time before we really disbursing normally. We could actual disbursement of INR 1,000 crores and with a very high collection efficiency of almost at a pre-COVID level of around 96% plus. We had ended up with an AUM of close to INR 5,100 crores or INR 5,057 crores precisely. For the quarter, we had a profit of around close to INR 36 crores. And as I mentioned, with a very robust asset quality and focus on maintaining good amount of liquidity, which will gradually decrease as we move over a period of time. Once again, I would like to reiterate that the segment in which we are working with our direct distribution of 3,500 centers or beat our distribution strength through NBFCs, we are in a constant vigil, and we are evaluating the ground-level situation as to how we can jack up the disbursement. And our strategy has always been to understand the market thoroughly before we come back to normal disbursement, which fully can start to a major extent from Q4. And then Q1 onwards, we can see normalcy coming back. Obviously, with a caveat that should get an opportunity to create quality assets because with the fundamentals what we have, it is just a matter of time whereby we can, once again, move back to our normal growth of around 20% to 25% and continue our very strong compounding story. If you see our investor presentation, over the span of 25 years, it is 30% plus amidst all the odds we have seen over all these years. So we are quite confident of capturing the opportunity as it comes along. Once the things are normalized. We're riding on a very strong fundamentals, on a very strong asset quality. And while Darshana will take you through the comparative numbers that we all agree that there is no time to compare the last year or the last quarter with the current year and the current quarter. So rather more focused on the stand-alone numbers for this quarter and for 9 months, we stand at a profit of around INR 107 crores as on December 2020. We -- as I'd like to repeat that we stand on a very firm fundamentals, and we are all ready to capture the opportunity, but putting quality and profitability on the top priority evident from the working what we have done so far by maintaining the asset qualities and creating more than sufficient buffers. Our buffer stands at around 1.67% of our net own book assets, which is more than sufficient looking to the current situation. I will request Ankit to take you through the liability management and then Darshana will take you through the numbers in detail for your better understanding. Ankit, if you can brief them on the liability management?

Thank you, sir. Good afternoon all. Just an update on the liability management, the company through sufficient liability management was able to maintain healthy liquidity buffer of around INR 1,000 crores and unutilized cash credit facility of around INR 500 crores, which is -- in total is around INR 1,500 crores, the liquidity buffer which we had as on December 31. In the recent, the company had sanction on hand to the tune of INR 1,850 crores in the form of term loans and direct assignments which we'll be utilizing over the current quarter as well as the first quarter of the next year. If it tell about the fund which was raised in the last quarter, we did around INR 103 crores direct SME transaction with the various PSU banks. And we have around INR 1,000 crores sanction on hand, which will be utilized in the coming quarters. The company has available cash credit facility of around INR 1,800 crores, out of which we utilized around 65% to 70%, and rest, we have kept as a liquidity buffer. We were able to roll over around INR 1,100 crores short-term working capital loan, which are supplement to this cash credit limit. The company leased around INR 35 crores term loan during the quarter. This helped us to further strengthen the asset liability maturity pattern. And the company further has more than INR 850 crores sanction on hand, which we utilize in the coming quarters. The company has assessed the -- its structural liquidity for the period ended December 31, 2020. And the further assessment, there were no negative impact on the liquidity and the cash flow in all the cumulative buckets stand positive. Company has also stress tested in a liquidity model and is comfortably placed to meet its repayment obligation for the entire year. In the next 1 year, the repayment obligation would be around INR 500 crores. If I tell about the capital adequacy, it is around 32.61%, with a Tier 1 capital of 30.35%. Thereby, as per the regulatory guidelines, we are to maintain Tier 1 of 10% and the Tier 2 of 5% minimum. With the debt equity, we have around 2.64x. So we are very well placed for the next phase of growth in the coming quarters. And I would like to further reassure that the company and marketing will continue to manage the liability efficiently in the past owned by our beloved sir, Mukesh sir. Thank you.

Thank you, Ankit. So now just to give you about the performance of the quarter. I'll start with the disbursement. Disbursement for the quarter was INR 1,031 crores and as compared to INR 820 crores last quarter, which is 26% rise comparing to last quarter and resulting into the ramp of INR 5,055 crores. Profit before tax for the quarter was INR 48.38 crores, and PAT for the quarter was INR 36.18 crores. And if you look at the 9 months number, PBT was INR 142.93 crores and PAT was INR 106.98 crores. If you look at the quality of assets, without considering this Supreme Court dispensation, our gross Stage 3 was at 1.70% and net Stage 3 was at 1.33%. Now as mentioned by Kamlesh sir in his opening remarks, like these 2 periods are not comparable, but if we compare the PBT impact with the last corresponding period, for the quarter, there is a contraction of 25% in PBT and PAT. And for 9 months, contraction of 21.38% in PBT and 18.99% in PAT. Now coming to our housing finance company. Our AUM stands at INR 277 crores as on December 31. PBT for the quarter is INR 60 lakhs. PAT for the quarter is INR 46 lakhs. And for 9 months, PBT is 3 crores 51 lakhs and INR 2.68 crores was the PAT for 9 months. Here also the comparison with corresponding period, rise in PAT for the quarter is 19.72%, and the rise in PAT for 9 months is 3.08%. As far as our portfolio quality is concerned, without considering Supreme Court dispensation, gross Stage 3 is 0.36% and net Stage 3 for the housing finance is 0.26%. And here, once again, I would like to mention that this is without considering COVID -- special COVID provisioning. This is after considering normal provisioning only. So with this note, I would request Kamlesh sir to take it forward.

So we are open for any questions. Any of the -- anybody would like to ask, we'll be more than happy to address their queries.

[Operator Instructions] Our first question is from the line of Bharat Shah from ASK Investment Managers.

I want to express my condolence for Mukesh bhai's departure. Just wanted to raise one important issue what I felt. While we over the period of time know that MAS has been conservative in approach, quality of the book is very vital. The business to be written is to be quality business, and you can't chase a business for the sake of it. And all very sound fundamentals. Good return on asset, healthy return on equity and all absolutely correct fundamentals. But in these 9 months, while clearly pandemic is being a challenge and challenge for every lender, whether banks or otherwise. I thought things have been opening up for the other lenders. The first quarter, everybody to and had a challenge. Second quarter, there was some kind of getting on the feet. And in third quarter, very clearly, we are seeing signs of growth and readiness to grow at a much faster pace. Are we heavy kind of shrunk into the shell within where we become too conservative and denying an opportunity to us because keeping excess liquidity in the finance form, I won't regard this necessarily as a virtue. That is a virtue when there is a challenge. But ultimately, money has to be utilized and it is good to create value. So are we becoming too conservative in heavy kind of shrunk and become too cautious and risk cover?

Thank you, Bharat ji, for your -- for expressing your feelings. And coming back to our approach. Now I personally see that is a very simple logic here. 9 months, April to December, till August, everything was practically not functional. And from September to December, with an average efficiencies of the businesses we work with, anywhere between 40% to 70% increasing progressively, giving us a comparative 30% working as compared to last year and a contraction of 15% of AUM, is, I think, given. While I can -- I will not be a position to talk about other lenders, different lenders or different strategies, but we probably believe this is not the right period to focus on the top line. We would -- we have demonstrated our capabilities to grow continuously at 15% to 25% over last 25 years. And once thing normalizes, we don't see why we cannot achieve that. But we firmly believe that this is not an on off switch that once it starts, the lending should also start at the same pace. So we are -- and especially to the consumers who we are -- especially to the customers who we serve to, the informal class of the society are always vulnerable. So while there might be opportunities, we might have tightened our credit, I will not call it as going to the shell, but we'll use the word of extra cautious and prudent, which we will -- where we would try to normalize over next few quarters. I would refrain from giving any growth numbers still for 2 quarters because I think that growth in the segment where we work, there is an enormous opportunity. The only thing is that to navigate this through this time successfully and fundamentally very strongly. And if you see our disbursement for Q1 was nothing, Q2 was INR 800 crores, Q3 was INR 1,000 crores. So as Darshana mentioned, we grew by 26% from Q2 to Q3. But for companies like us whose loan cycle is anywhere between 18 to 24 months and when you have around 96% of the recovery, the result will be little in AUM, and that would be the tune of around, 12% to 15%. So achieving around 85% of what we were last year, despite of the fact that in 9 months, we have got only 30% or practically 3 months to work full-fledged and that too after such a big shock to the economy, I think we would justify our strategy, especially based on our experience. Coming on the liquidity buffer. Liquidity buffers are not -- I understand that liquidity buffers beyond a point is a negative carry. But here, if you see what happens is that you cannot predict the disbursements in such uncertain times. So from INR 1,600 crores, we have reduced to INR 1,000 crores. And from Q4, it is further reduced. And once we have line of credit accrued and sanctioned, it is incumbent on us to draw certain lines for our long-term relationships. So while we are aware of not holding on much more liquidity, at the same time, looking to the current situation, it was prudent to honor the commitment for -- in interest of the long-term benefit of the company and gradually decreasing it, which we've already demonstrated in our working that from INR 1,600 crores to INR 1,000 crores. And once again, we will reduce it. So all in all, I think the strategy of -- especially with the class we are working, the strategy of growing cautiously will be the beneficial -- will be beneficial to all the stakeholders. And we'll need to wait for a few quarters before we really come back to around 15% to 22%, 25% growth. And even on -- even by observing such conservatism also as you remark, we stand on healthy numbers on ROEs and drawer. So let me assure you that once things are back to normal according to our assessment because things becoming normal as per the economic surveys or we just comparing with other lenders will not be the right thing to do for us. So we'll be coming back to the normal soon, let us hope that things normalizes and we come back to our 15%, 20% growth.

So thank you, Kamlesh bhai. Basically, we are saying that we have all opportunity to grow. Our clients say it is for us to choose when we want to grow. But given the fact that the kind of clients that we saw, there is that inherent vulnerability and therefore, prudent and cautious stance may be better rather than get aggressive even efficient. So it's not actually we are denying ourselves. We are just being wise, is what you are trying to say?

Yes. Because secondly, is a practice to believe that any of the lenders reaching around 80%, 85% of his last year's volumes is also a commendable job. It is not -- it is not creating problem in the quality or liquidity because hardly -- we will be having around 50% of the work done during this year. And lending is a business that any business will affect our balance sheet. We sold to 200 different categories of customers and to assess those people and to see to that, that they're back on track the way they can borrow and repay, I think even reaching around 85% of what is a last year will be a good job done.

Good. No, I appreciate. I just wanted to understand what exactly the thought passage. So that's perfectly understandable. So for next 2 quarters or so, still we will be relatedly being more watchful, though we may grow on a quarter-to-quarter basis?

Yes. Now we have to take a new guard on growing on quarter-to-quarter because -- and then we'll catch up on a year-to-year basis. This is how we are internally planning.

And on asset quality, our buffer or the provision that we're achieving in the balance sheet today is how much percentage of assets?

1.66% of our own book assets.

So 1.66%, yes, you mentioned.

COVID provisioning. That is only COVID provisioning, and this is a special provisioning. The rest is different.

Can you repeat that, Kamlesh bhai?

The special provisioning is 1.66%.

Okay. And total is a provision that we're achieving in the book today?

I think that will be another 1.25% of provisions. So we have close to INR 95 crores to INR 100 crores of total provisioning, standard asset and everything.

Okay. So that I suppose should take care of any worse kind of a contingency in the situation, I suppose, given generally, your credit cost has been so much lower, even after taking into account COVID situation plus the hit on account of that Orissa NBFC. We said we -- it should take care of worst contingency, I suppose.

I've always maintained that as a lender and we are always leverage. While we are very moderately leveraged, but as a lending institute, the characteristic of a lending institute of leveraging and delivering our return on capital employed, it is always good to create and capitalize on the chances whenever you get chances to create buffers and that is what we are following.

Our next question is from the line of from [indiscernible] Axis Securities.

Sir, I had a couple of questions. So the first one would be on what kind of disbursements. I understand there will probably focus going to Q4. So would it be good to assume that maybe we could start business as usually from second half of FY '22? Or could that be earlier? Because in Q4 last year, we've missed out on about INR 300-odd crores of disbursement. So do you see that picking up earlier? Or how would you want to -- any light on that?

So on disbursements, we are taking Q1 -- sequential Q-on-Q targets. We were 800,000 this quarter. We will limit ourselves targeting Q4, and that should be anywhere around INR 1,200 crores, INR 100 crores here or there, but with a caveat that will -- it will get the right type of opportunity. So it will be safe to assume that from INR 800 crores to INR 1,000 crores to around INR 1,200 crores is a good number to assume for Q4.

Okay. Okay, sir. And also on -- it was earlier mentioned that the micro enterprise loans will be the ones to pick up faster. However, it was in last quarter also this quarter also, they have seen the sharpest degrowth. So how do you see your opportunity in those loans going ahead? And if you could quantify what kind of pre-COVID levels have your borrowers in this category reached? Also, if these loans would be your key growth drivers going ahead?

Micro enterprise loan and small and medium enterprise loans have remained and will remain our key drivers for growth. In terms of comparative figures, as I remarked, last year and this year they're not comparable. So it will be better if we see on a quarter-to-quarter sequential basis, and on a sequential basis, we will definitely see an increase that given the -- once again, I will put a condition here that if we see the right type of opportunity in terms of the quality of the assets, I think the key driver will remain MSME. And it's just a matter of few quarters being the market being so wide, while we will try very earnestly to see to that, that we identify the opportunities to reset a particular disbursement levels. But the disbursement target will be based on quarter-to-quarter.

Okay. So lastly on your OpEx part. We've seen a sharp degrowth in OpEx, especially on the employee expenses part. So we'll probably -- so currently, I think your cost-to-income is around 16% or 17-odd percent for 9 months. How do you see your cost to income shaping up going ahead? Will probably exit at FY '21 with cost to income of 18%, 19-odd percent versus our usual run rate of, say, 22%, 24%? Any guidance on that?

I think normalcy will disperse OpEx expenditure also because what happened that in 9 months, there were some -- as you know that there were so many things happening. And not us and each every company on the horizon, were trying to seclude that data or they can reduce their costs. And in that endeavor, we could reduce it from, say, our conditional 22%, 23% to 17%, 18%. But on quarter-to-quarter, it will grow. And I think within a few quarters, it can reach back to normal. Normalcy of OpEx is one sign of normalcy in disbursement, too. So it will gradually increase and come back to that level.

Okay. Sir, last question. Have we restructured any loans in this quarter?

We are into MSME. So we have time up till March. So as I have always share with all of you in earlier con calls also that we are not much in hurry to restructure loans. We are taking the complete information. We are understanding the client profile. And while we are open to help the people not to list of the credit history, given the differentiation of restructuring, it will be done very cautiously. And as we envisage right now, it will be -- it can be at around close to 1% of our total AUM.

Our next question is from the line of Bhavesh Kanani from ASK Investments.

Yes, sir. Am I audible?

Yes.

Sir, my question was on pro forma GNPA. Is the number that you have reported, 1.32% GNPA, I guess, that is after removing accounts where Supreme Court verdict is effective in terms of not recognizing NPAs. So what would be the pro forma GNPA for us, sir?

If we don't consider Supreme Court verdict, advisory is 1.7% and 1.33%. GNPA would be 1.7 and net NPA will be 1.33%. And if you apply Supreme Court's advice of not recognizing those accounts as NPA, it is 1.33% and 1% NNPA.

Okay. So against this 1.7%, in an earlier response, you had mentioned that we are carrying 1.66% the special provision. Broadly covered on pro forma as well.

Yes, yes. So that is a global provisioning because you can expect things coming from Stage 2 to Stage 3 and so on. So we are talking about 1.66% on loan book assets. But this is also a perspective, that this is as good as our Stage 3 net NPA.

Okay. And any restructuring or reschedulement we've offered to any borrowers?

We will definitely offer for the ones who we find married that once restructured, they can carry on their repayment successfully, so as not to disturb their credit history. So the major intention of RBI of restructuring was to facilitate borrowers not to disturb their credit history and the future borrowings thereof. So we will be going by that lines. And as I shared with the earlier caller, it can be around 1% for AUM. This is what we see.

Okay. And taking the Bharat bhai's question further. On growth aspect, you did mention that it makes sense to be a little conservative even though for rest of the NBFCs lenders, growth seems to be kind of coming back. Now when I'm looking at the micro enterprise loans, not even SME, which are 2 of the largest products, I request you to share some specific concerns you still have running in your mind, which is leading you to be cautious still? Is it -- I mean, is it that your credit filters are still not giving you comfort or your credit filters have been tightened during the pandemic or the demand itself is not as strong as it was earlier?

See, there's never been a lot of demand in the segment we are working, MSME. The challenge lies in delivering quality credit, which is in the interest of -- more in the interest of the borrowers than the lenders. So whenever we talk about a cautious disbursement, and it is more on the lines of we trying to assess the situation at the ground level, we try to understand the real cash flows obviously post-COVID and only around 2, 3 months of working, it is difficult to establish the consistencies of the cash flow. So these are all the issues which comes to the fore when we try to assess the credit worthiness. So it is more on the account of how to judge their cash flow because this is cash flow-based lending. And I need some time post-COVID to understand their cash flows before we really come back to the normal trajectory of growth.

Okay. And lastly, sir, any update on the [indiscernible] entity on which we had provided last quarter? Any further action on that front?

The efforts are going on. A third-party administrator has been put on the company. The collections have started. And in 1 quarter, they've collected close to INR 15 crores what I am told. We will have the -- we have very regular reviews with the administrator and full efforts are being made to recover as much as we can. Difficult to tell how much we will, but we are looking at one link of the chain at a time. Currently, it was to appoint administrator, appoint recovery agencies, appoint a company who can really work and step in their suit, that has been done. And full-fledged efforts are done maybe on the recovery part on the legal side to cite examples for other borrowers. So this is the latest update.

[Operator Instructions] Our next question is from the line of [ Madhu Chan Nade ] from MC Research.

I have a couple of questions. So the first one, which has been asked by quite a few other participants, I'm sorry, I'm repeating it. I wanted to understand that the ground reality that you see as far as your borrowers are concerned, are they tad worse what you had seen in the aftermath of demon. Is that the reason for the caution? Or have you tightened the underwriting standards post-COVID?

So if I share with you I will not compare this with a demon, given the length of the crises what we have gone through. So demon was for a couple of months and then people adjusting on the getting currencies and so on. So this is not comparable to demon. Secondly, as I shared with the other callers is that while we are seeing improved activities at the ground level and the improved performance at the ground level, this is the time to assess the consistencies of the cash flow. That is what we are trying to do is that we are trying to assess the consistencies of the cash flow post-COVID and understanding the changes in their business model and their propensity to earn, borrow and pay. So this not comparable with demon. There's something more severe than demon in terms of the impact on the borrowers' livelihood. They are slowly picking up, they are coming back to the normal. The smaller ones are coming fast -- coming back fast. We are witnessing around 70% to 80% of the recovery in their activity. But now we are waiting for the consistency in the cash flow and to understand that there has been any change in their business model or other dynamics. So that is how we are trying to assess the cash flow of these borrowers and then lend to them.

Yes. My second question is a little -- a bit of a long-term question. Quite a few of this new age FinTech are trying to target the same customer segment that you cater to. And a couple of -- not couple of, one particular large consumer financing company has also decided to go big on FinTech. What is your thought on this whole thing? And do you think, as a company, you also want to walk that path at some future date?

So the -- given -- we all know the size of this market, and there are various segmentation in this market. So the ones who really qualify for FinTech will be at least 3, 4 notches above whom we are serving. And to serve the customers who we are serving only through FinTech, a few of them are experienced business into very high delinquencies, raising questions on the business model. So this is to the customers who we are serving is predominantly a field and assessed type of assessment, whereby you can read out so many things at the ground level by visiting to them, by talking to them, by understanding what are the things at the ground level, thereby maintaining the delinquencies in the right perspective. You can source business through FinTech or through any other means. But the taste of that sourcing is on how exactly it reflects on the quality of the assets. So the one so far within the FinTech categories will be 3, 4 notches above. Secondly, we are not able to use in FinTech. We are also trying to develop systems, whereby we can reduce manual intervention with the maximum extent possible, be it interaction with the customers, being the feedback from the customers, be it monitoring the field executive. And when we really think that these growers have also come to that level, whereby, they can be served through FinTech, I think we'll be ready by that time to serve through that platform also. But currently, the class to whom we are serving, irrespective of their size, will take some time because of the credit what time to really add up to the FinTech type of origination if at all you want to limit your delinquencies within a current level because you might have seen that the FinTech companies who are into SME and we work some of the FinTech companies. And we have seen that the delinquency levels are quite high as compared to the way we do conventionally. So there's a long way to be covered by the FinTech companies to assess that in the right perspective, given the quality of the document and the quality of the understanding of the borrowers. So this is a ground-level reality. Having said that, we are quite abreast of the developments happening. We work closely with FinTech companies. We assess also, as I told you, trying to adopt and adapt as much as we can to be more efficient.

[Operator Instructions] Our next question is from the line of Bharat Shah from ASK Investment Managers.

Kamlesh bhai, this is a general question, but the Supreme Court standstill, they originally had indicated they wanted to come out with a quick conclusion and they were urging all the parties, Reserve Bank, government, et cetera, to submit all the information and decision. So that by October, they were to come with the conclusion on the matter. Why is it taking this long? Why this method is not getting resolved?

There are 2 aspects to it. One, they decided that you cannot charge interest on interest and that is where we all are given subvention by Government of India that what all interest was charged on interest made by banks or made by NBFCs is being reimbursed. So that decision has been taken. So that is the one which we've just gone through and it's been educated to the ground level, which State Bank of India being the model agency to do this. On standstill of [indiscernible] post August, they are examining it. Difficult to answer why it's taking so much of time. They -- I don't know where they are stuck up. But I think they have all the data now, and it is between RBI Government and Supreme Court to iron out as to how they can really take forward and in terms of identification or tagging an account NPA. Difficult to tell by what time they will be in position to come up with any guidelines. But as of now, we are advised not to mark them as NPA so as not to spoil their credit history. But what usually the companies do is, is that they have their own assessment on the numbers and they act accordingly. So we publish both the numbers that with Supreme Court dispensation and without Supreme Court dispensation. And our focus is on the original numbers without the Supreme Court dispensation on interacting with the customer.

So while Supreme court keeps the matter in a state of suspended animation beyond tagging or otherwise, and beyond what is actually a damage, which has occurred, it cannot affect the business, per se, right?

We will have to come out in some time frame. And I think RBI and government, both are cognizant of the fact. And I think this will come out sooner than later, but difficult to give the time frame. But I think they should settle it before March.

Difficult, really, I mean, Supreme Court is hard to understand a matter which is in the domain of government and RBI, and they both have concluded what they need to do. Why Supreme Court keeping it in animation is mysterious thing actually. My other thing was -- is on December 31, how many number of loans outstanding we have? And if we have some kind of average tenure of a loan, if you have a number for each category, if one can get that?

So for detail, I will share it -- I will ask Ankit to share it off-line, but the number of customers -- live customers are close to around 7 lakhs 70 thousand.

Sorry?

Its underlying portfolio, but loan accounts are 7 lakhs 66 thousand.