MasTec, Inc. (MTZ) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Okay. Good afternoon, good morning. I'm Steve Fisher, UBS Machinery and Engineering Construction analyst. Welcome to the UBS TMT Conference. We're really pleased to have the management of MasTec with us again this year, and it's the third year now in a row that we've had MasTec. We have Jose Mas, CEO; George Pita, Executive Vice President and CFO; and Marc Lewis, Vice President of Investor Relations. This will be a fireside chat. If you have questions, please use, The Ask Question feature and the questions will come right to me. Just before we get started, as a research analyst, I'm required to provide certain disclosures relating to the nature of our own relationships and that of UBS on any company with which we express a view during this session today and you can find these disclosures at www.ubs.com/disclosures or I can provide them to you after the call. So welcome team. Thanks very much for being with us. I'll turn it over to George first, if you want to kind of give us a quick overview and sort of the key things you want folks to know about MasTec.

Sure. Thanks, Steve and thanks for having us today. Firstly, I'm on dial-in today, and Jose is as well, I'm having Internet issues as I think many are having. So apologies for the dial-in nature of our call, but happy to be here today to talk about MasTec and where we are and where we're heading, we're at a pivotal time in terms of transition within MasTec, right? We were going to talk a lot about our different end markets, but for those who aren't familiar with us, we're a North America based infrastructure company. We work in the power and telecommunications market. So when you look at the end markets that we're involved in, there's some significant mega trends across the telecommunication space, across the Clean Energy and Infrastructure space, and across the power transmission & distribution space that really are providing significant opportunities for growth expansion both top line and margin for MasTec going forward. As you will talk about I'm sure with Steve later, we're a very diversified company and we have a lot of opportunities as we move forward into '22, we're really looking for a lot of our non-oil and gas segments to continue to expand and grow. We're seeing that under the terms that we'll be talking about today. So we're blessed to be in good -- in very good position and I'm looking forward to the big opportunities that exist just for the next several years to significantly grow our operations and our profitability.

Great. Thanks for that, George. So 2021 has been a very good year for MasTec. Maybe if you could just talk a little bit about how the year played out relative to what you thought at the start of the year? And what really have you learned, what kind of key lessons do you take away from this year that you could kind of move forward within the business going forward?

Sure. Thanks, Steve. I mean, before I forget, we will eventually I think webcast this once the AWS situation is resolved on a nationwide basis and when we webcast, that we also want to make reference to our forward-looking statement which is included in our investor relations presentation on our website at www.mastec.com. Look, '21 has played out in great part, how we thought, right? We came into the year and we've been -- we've exceeded our initial expectations for the year in terms of revenue, EBITDA and EPS. We knew there were certain factors that we're developing during the year that would portray some challenges in '21 that would show opportunities going forward in '22, namely on the telecommunication space as we came into the year given the timing of the C-band spectrum auction that was occurring, we figured it would be a lighter year in terms of wireless spend and it played out that way, maybe a little slower than we thought pretty similar. And with that now it brings us to the opportunities that we see in '22 where we're faced with a mega trend here which is the development of the 5G infrastructure deployment and the construction that's going to be occurring now in C-band spectrum and the number of the other opportunities that exist for rural development, et cetera. And I'd say, well, things have generally played out as we thought, and a little bit better in '21. I think a couple of things have happened during the year that are important to note. One would be, I think when you look at our customer base, on the telecommunication side, how they've transitioned their business models in many cases during the year to become more focused on the actual telecommunications, rather than some of the non-core items. I think is a good indicator of the opportunity that exists with 5G and I think that's developed and expanded over the course of the year. I think also likewise, when you think about the trends that existed in clean energy and renewables, those are certainly accelerated, but I would say during this past year, I think something that has developed as well has been the acceptance and understanding of how integral the power grid portion of the -- investment in the power grid is related to the ultimate deployment of renewable power sources. So I think over the course of this past year, we've seen a much greater realization and understanding and then in some cases now potential government programs that will assist in the power grid which I think is a very helpful trend for our business and really kind of, in my mind, puts the trends that exist on clean energy and the mega trend that's there, that is the renewable power generation change has now kind of made -- the Power T&D part of our business is now a part of that segment. And then I wondered -- watched but I think it's also worth thinking about, but still developing, but it is kind of initiated here in '21 has been the expansion of several number of ESG items like carbon capture sequestration, that may not be a '22 event just yet, but it is something that we think is of importance and can bring some meaningful opportunity to our pipeline operations going forward. So I think those 3 trends have all kind of developed during the year and put us where we stand today which we think is in a very favorable spot.

Terrific. Now you guys have a $10 billion revenue target for the long term and you seem to be on track to -- if you meet that more in the nearer term than the longer-term. Curious though what your big picture aspirations are for MasTec over the next few years and really beyond that $10 billion? I'm not asking for a number that would be after the $10 billion but more qualitatively, what you would describe your vision for MasTec is going to be over the next handful of years? How diversified, how big, what scale -- what's sort of -- what's the aspiration for MasTec in the long term?

We'll probably holding on for second, see if Jose is going to join us or not. If not, I'll take it.

[Technical Difficulty].

Let me go Jose, because you're breaking up. So look Steven, '20 we put the $10 billion target out a little over a year ago and at this time we're a $6 billion entity and it felt like it was a long ways away right and you know, here we are closing this year close to $8 billion and change and looking for growth into 2021. So all of a sudden that expansion that it seems -- it's certainly a very near-term potential. What I would -- here is what I would say. I would say that A, we're in very favorable markets that provide opportunity. I think if I were looking at that $10 billion target today and you look at the components, I think many of the expectations that we put in by Group, the Clean Energy Group and the Communications Group, I think those have all been validated and strengthened over the course of the year. I think in looking at that chart today which breaks down -- the point of that chart was we wanted to show the time we had a sizable oil and gas presence in the pipeline business that we felt that the end markets that we had if the oil and gas pipeline business were to become a much smaller component of our total business, which we think it's going to be here in '22 and moving forward that we had significant opportunities to become -- despite that change, is to become a $10 billion enterprise with a strong double-digit margin profile. And I think that thesis has been validated by a lot of what's happened in this year. If I were -- if you look at that chart today, it'd be a fair question to say why we have a Power T&D Group that today is trending into [ $1.2 billion ] range in terms of pro forma revenue going forward because we added a distribution arm this year. And I think we put that in that $10 billion chart, we had put the T&D group at about $1 billion to $1.5 billion, which is probably fair to say that given the early stages, the increased recognition of the required investments that need to happen in the power grid, both from a transmission and the distribution side, that there's probably some more opportunity in that front. So I think it's fair to say that there may be more than a $10 billion opportunity for us. What I would say is that I think you can count on MasTec to maximize the opportunities in the enterprises that we're in, but I think it's also important to note that the end markets and the opportunities that we're in are not -- they are really relatively recent entrants, right and what I think MasTec has been very good at doing particularly Jose over the last decade has been really looking at and understanding the direction of infrastructure terms and establishing entry points to maximize MasTec's growth potential and opportunity going forward in services that are peripheral to what we do or close to what we do, right? And I think you can expect that will be the case going forward. And we have got a very strong balance sheet, there's a lot of active discussions going on in terms of, we've been very vocal, there's a lot of M&A activity out there in today's world. And I think when you look at MasTec going forward, I think it's fair to say that the opportunities in the markets that we serve have expanded and when we think about ourselves going out into the future, I think I look at MasTec is continuing to be a very entrepreneurial, nimble company that will find ways to take advantage of whatever trends are developing in its end markets or in services that are close to its end markets and that's ultimately how we got here today. I think most folks don't necessarily -- I think it's important to recognize that when you look at the transmission business or you look at the wireless business or the clean energy business, we're a relatively recent entrant into a lot of those end markets and those entrants -- those entry points were done through either through M&A organically with several years ago with the view of taking advantage of what we're developing trends. I think you can expect that to continue for MasTec going forward.

And you just may have just answered that question, but I was going to ask you then sort of more in the near term say next 12 months, what your strategic priorities are maybe you consider to the answer you just gave already addressing that, but are there any other strategic priorities within sort of the more near term that you'd like to address?

Well, I think in the near term, our focus is really on delivering the expectations that we have in terms of the margin profile as our business mix transitions. And that's really where our main focus has been on. While we look at that, we look and understand that the market is such that because of all the different constraints, whether it'd be labor or fleet or supply chain, that our end customers are looking at -- to deal with more proven larger enterprises if you will, that can truly deliver, despite of those challenges. So in that perspective, in addition to looking for that we'll obviously look to see if there's opportunities to expand our base in terms of resources or otherwise that we can look forward on because there's -- and generally speaking, if you look at across 2 or 3 of our end markets, there is more demand than there is capacity to construct or complete and in that case, there's opportunities to take selective opportunities to expand that capacity, we certainly would consider that.

So it sounds that...

This is Jose, I think I'm -- I think I'm actually on now and you're going to be able to hear me. I'd like to just add something to what George said, and probably reiterate it. I think our shorter-term goals are really all around being able to execute on the opportunities in front of us. So we have tremendous opportunities across all of our segments and we've been -- this is a position we've been lined to be in for a long time, we've been preparing to be in it for a long time and I think that really over the course of the next 12 months is really preparing ourselves for the execution within that 12 months, to more importantly really setting ourselves up for -- into the future year outlook which looks so bright for us.

That's a great point. Thanks, Jose. So maybe we can talk a little bit about that for minute, because you are ramping up a lot of these cycles for 2 to 3 week businesses that you talked about, you're bringing on new customers a lot of new employees, growing your labor base. How much of a focus, is it for you or to what extent are you doing anything at the company-wide level to enhance stability to deliver good consistent solid execution there, a couple of segments where there is a learning curve this year. What's going on behind the scenes operationally that will give investors comfort that you can execute and deliver on these opportunities?

We've gotten the question over the years of why are we in the businesses that we're in? Why does one business fit well with another business and the questions are always centered around what kinds of people and what kind of equipment you tend to move. And the reality is that what we think we do well, as an enterprise, as a business right is, we think we manage things well, we manage projects well, we manage people well. We were able to track information and then we hold people accountable and that's really I think that's MasTec's strength, right? It's being able to measure every business around productivity and the things that really move us from a financial needle perspective and it's -- executing on projects safely, it's executing on time. It's making sure that we truly understand our cost structure across any project and then the accountability that we're able to hold because of the information that we've got, I think that's the one common thread around MasTec. So when we talk about executing obviously there is individual things that have to happen across each segment but at the end of the day, I think we feel really good about what we structurally have as a full enterprise in our ability to measure and so really hold people accountable for their performance, and I think that's our strength.

Is there anything incremental to that, that's [Audio Gap] you're adding for '22 and '23 and any new sort of operational personnel and any procedures, anything new to add on to that or you think it's running adequately enough?

Well, I think we're always adding to it, right? I don't think we're ever stagnant, I think you can only improve by doing things differently, you're doing them better. With that said, I think we've got a good overall plan, I think we've got good ways in which we look at our business, but we're constantly learning, right? Some of these businesses are new work for us. We got our [indiscernible] along the way and I think we learned every project that we do, every type of opportunity that we learn from it. So is it the same? No, it evolves, right. But I think we've got the right process in place that includes the evolution of those things that allow us to be better in the future. So look, I mean -- and I think maybe to wrap that up, we're not, we're not pleased with our performance. We know we should be and could be performing a lot better and that's part of it, right? So what are the things that we're going to do differently than what we've done in the past and in a particular job that hasn't gone low, whatever and -- that's constantly been part of our evolution and will continue to be.

That's sounds good. And maybe on that point as we look forward, it'd down, but I think there is a really good opportunity to achieve your revenue targets, but also achieve some of this margin expansion, how do you think about sort of the timing and the potential to have double-digit margins across all of your segments?

Look, I think first, we're laser focused. We've been talking about margins for 1.5 years. I think you've seen the improvement across some of our segments. We've got work to do on others. We feel great about where we are in the communication segment. Obviously we will be better, but we think we're [indiscernible] pleased with margin. We've been able to deliver. We think there is a lot more there and a lot of improvement that it brings upon, what we think about our oil and gas business I think we've been top collateral on time and I think our other businesses are going to be a much smaller. I think our ability to maintain a really strong margin profile will tell you when we think about our transmission and distribution group. I think it's been -- we obviously did the INTREN acquisition earlier this year. We had a really good third quarter I think you'll see that continue in the fourth quarter, we feel really good that we'll either get to or do really close to double-digit margins for full-year to '22 and then in the clean energy business, right we've talked about getting double digits over time. It's probably a step process we're very comfortable thinking that we'll get into those mid to high single-digits next year. I think you'll start seeing that -- that's probably the one part of our story that's yet to come, that's yet to prove out, and I think you'll start seeing that in the fourth quarter.

And just on that point, can you just talk about what you think specifically will allow for that nice pickup in the fourth quarter on clean energy margins?

Sure. I think there's a lot of things that have negatively impacted us over the course of the last year or so, that has led to that and part of that is the investment that we've made in growing the business. So when you look at our clean energy business, right, we've gotten into a couple of areas that have really given us the opportunity to expand and to grow the business. There are areas in the business that we think are going to be very fruitful for a long period of time. When we look at 2020 to 2021, there was obviously an increase in the wind business where wind has declined a little bit because a lot of the transmission needs still exist, there need to be more transmission lines to feed renewables. So we saw a little drop off in wind. It was made up by another areas of the business that we were growing, then we lowered margins, our first couple of solar jobs gave us some issues like we've talked about. So I think we've worked our way through all of that, I think we've won a significant amount of work over the course of the last year that some of it's starting to be built. So you're starting to see that shift in margins. So I think, again, I think you'll start seeing in the fourth quarter and I think we're going to be able to take that in 2022 with a really good run rate.

Yes, I mean it's a big challenge to ramp up such an important business in clean energy, with so much going on. So it sounds like you're comfortable now that you're far enough up the learning curve on those solar projects, that they can kind of run more smoothly on an ongoing basis as you take on new work there.

Absolutely. And we've done a great job of picking up work, we've -- our backlog has grown really nicely on the solar side, we're very bullish about what's coming. We think 2022 is going to be a great year and quite frankly we think the foreseeable future and especially in solar and then to also wind as it starts coming back in '23 we think it's just going to be an unbelievable run.

Great. In terms of the M&A activity, it seems like -- it sounds like you've been pretty active in discussions. How would you describe what's really been holding back the deals at this point? I know you guys always said, you've been pretty disciplined on what you pay and need to find the right culture and the right match. What are the sort of the more important things that are holding back M&A at this point?

I think we've done a good job in 2021, right? We added a couple of pieces that we thought were important, probably INTREN being the biggest and most important piece of what we're able to do in '21. Really expanded our distribution and to a lesser extent, our transmission capabilities. We think that's a fantastic market. I think you've seen it in our margin profile, all the impact that it had in the third quarter. I think you'll see it again in the fourth quarter. So we're very happy about that transaction and a couple of others we did in '21. There's no question that a lot of people have been really trying to get stuff, things sold relative to the end of '21 because of the potential tax concerns that are out there and every one of these deals takes time, you got to make sure it's the right fit, you've got to make sure you're getting it at a good value. We're not in a mode where we feel we have to make acquisitions. We're only going to make acquisitions if we think they add value, they strategically position us to be able to outperform in the future. So we take all that into account. We've said it's a very active market out there and it is. We expect to continue to be active, when the right time comes and the right deal comes along, and we're able to close it in what we think are fair terms and then we'll hopefully be announcing more.

And maybe this is a question for George, but I guess for both of you. How do you think about what the right level of leverage is for the company through the cycle, you're at a very comfortable level at the moment, which would seem to allow for a fair bit of activity. How do you think about the right level through the cycle and then kind of where you might be able to feel comfortable flexing it to get deals done?

Jose, I'll take that one if you want. Steve, listen, we're fortunate in that we have invested over $600 million this year, we're sitting here in strategic M&A and we're sitting here, slightly over one-time levered, we just got an investment grade profile rating from Moody's. We're going to generate a strong cash flow this year and frankly as our business profile changes, right as the pipeline business becomes a smaller component of our business, net-net, over time our free cash flow profile improves, because our most capital-intensive business has clearly been the pipeline side. So the prospect for us is that we should have continued strong cash flow generation and be able to be in position to reinvest funds back into the business or into whatever mechanism we believe drives the largest shareholder value, right? And over time we've done M&A, we've done share repurchase and at times, we've delevered right? And I think deleveraging given where we are today is we're very comfortable. I mean we plan on maintaining an investment grade profile, that puts you generally speaking in somewhere slightly into 2, 1.5 to 2, in terms of our leverage profile going forward on a sustained basis. And we don't see -- we feel like we're in a very good position to be able to reinvest back into our business in whatever way is determined to be the most optimum, while maintaining that investment grade profile for us going forward.

And the only thing I would add is we're in a great position to pretty much do whatever we want, right? So our balance sheet is strong, we're capable of doing just about any size deal if we had to lever up for something that made a ton of sense, we'd have the ability to do that even if it would be for a short period of time. But we're in an incredible place, we've got a balance sheet that gives us tremendous flexibility to really try to take advantage of whatever opportunities exist in the market.

Great. Obviously, we have this IIJA stimulus that has passed. How do you think as an entrepreneurial company, you've been pretty nimble. How do you think about whether that makes you want to expand in some of these other areas faster, be it transportation-related, construction or water? How does this stimulus make you feel think differently strategically if at all?

What I would say is, we're not going to react to the market. I think we've understood what was happening in infrastructure for a long time. The Infrastructure Bill has been discussed for a long period of time, it's obviously the proportion of top and now, so it's exciting, but I think that was part of the reason that we got into some of the civil work that we got into this year, right? We bought a company that have a lot of civil presence out West. It was one of the early acquisitions that we made in '21, it's performed really well in '21. We think that's our big first entry, we think they are massively impacted by what's going to happen with the Infrastructure Bills and the potential around it. So I think we've got to learn that business, we've got to understand the intricacies of it. There's a lot of opportunities to grow that inorganically at this moment. And I think we're going to take our time, right? I think we want to make sure that we understand what makes our company successful, why have others struggled in this space over time and really try to find our niche in the area of the business where we think we can outperform. And once we do that, it's obviously a very healthy market to invest in relative to the big dollars that are going to flow into it. And there's other areas, right, that -- we'd start feeling better about a reconciliation bill, the Build Back Better Bill and what might come of that. There's a bunch of other business opportunities that are embedded in there with dollars that we think will flow that our business is that that we may really try to grow both organically and inorganically. So at the end of the day, we're going to do what we think is right for the business. We're not going to react because the government is talking about putting in more money for a short period of time, we're trying to make really good long-term bets. It obviously plays a role in it, but we've got to feel really good about the business before we do that.

Makes sense. Maybe focusing a little bit more on the telecom area. I think you've talked about in some prior discussions about a little more clarity on how the RDOF gets allocated relative to the new stimulus funds. What do you see the challenges and the uncertainties around the stimulus being deployed, $65 billion in telecom, what are the challenge to uncertainties there and how you see that getting resolved?

The reality is that most of the original RDOF funds, haven't even -- you haven't seen the impact of that in our business yet, if you will, because that money has been flowing for a while. So I think in short order, you're going to see that impact our industry and those of us who participate in it in a pretty significant way. And that's with a significant amount of RDOF funds still pending to be awarded and then on top of that, you have these infrastructure dollars. So the spending that's coming is quite frankly mind-boggling, I think just with what's already been committed is going to have a significant impact to the industry, we need to gear up for that as it is. And at this point, anything that comes on top of that is going to be somewhat be gravy I think it's going to be in excess of the way we think about our business and it's again it's a pretty exciting time to be here because I think we will be one of the few players that will truly be in a position to take advantage of it because of the constraints that exist in the market.

And I think we've talked about for a little while now about a sort of a $3 billion revenue run rate for that business. Is that still sort of a milestone for you and when do you think we'll be able to reach that and then maybe crossover that $3 billion of revenue level and what it will [indiscernible] specifically it will get it there.

Well, look on the communication side, our expectation is we would achieve that next year. So we believe that, that level of growth we is there, and we believe the backlog that we've been able to show over the last couple of quarters supports that. So we're excited and hopeful that that happens relatively quickly.

Okay. And there is some underlying contract structure mix changing. I think you guys are taking on a little bit more MSA mix. How do you see that mix playing out over time as you bring more of it kind of -- to work on more because of that [indiscernible].

It's going to be driven on business, and it's right to the extent that we continue to grow our distribution business, our transmission business even within our gas business some of the distribution gas work, the telecom work is highly MSA driven. So there was no question that with the decline in oil and gas, you're seeing our business come back to a much more significant MSA type structure, which is a little more consistent, it's obviously more predictable and we like both it's -- we think they're both important components. We've obviously excelled on both sides, but there's no question that the MSA side of the business does have a little bit more consistency than the project side. And that's what we're trying to do, I think you're going to see a much larger component of our business really start being MSA-driven.

Okay. Now, in this segment the bookings have been very good. It sounds like you think the fourth quarter bookings will continue to be good, but the growth has had a little bit of lag to it. What is the reason that the bookings, trying to think how to ask this, but kind of -- while the bookings have been so good, but the growth is lagging or should we just take the concept that the bookings are continuing to come as the positive sign that the -- whatever is holding back the actual revenue conversion, is really just given at some point in the near term. So I guess if they weren't going to convert, you might not actually take in the bookings, but you do continue to have pretty strong bookings. So just trying to reconcile those 2 things there?

Sure, there is -- first there's no question, it's a positive sign, right? We're extremely excited about the bookings that we've had in the last few quarters, the acceleration of those bookings. What our expectations are on a go forward basis. When you get into the reasons why those bookings have been converted to revenue faster, there's lots of reasons, right? The primary reason is, and I think this is a good sign, right? As customers have been awarding work in anticipation of it being ready, because they're worried about resources, right? So once we're getting work awarded, the low dollar things but there is the most important way, which is engineering, permitting and getting the jobs ready to construction, they take a lot of time, right? In an environment where you're having to deal with states, municipalities and waiting on permits, our expectation has always been, there's going to be a pretty significant lag from the time you get a construction project awarded, if it -- unless it's fully ready to go, it takes time to get it there. So that's part of it for sure. There's also been some constraints on the supply chain, that there's been some things that have lagged from probably earlier expectations of when they would be available, I think those are probably, I think the first is the most important and the biggest issue. I think the second has played a bigger role than what we anticipated. But again, I think both of those are transitory in nature and I think as soon as we start getting order flow and it's consistent, I think you'll definitely see it on the revenues and it will tie to the backlog growth that we've been enjoying. So there is no question in our mind that they relate to each other. We have absolutely no concerns about our backlog ultimately not being executed in the work. So it's just a matter of time.

Excellent. And maybe moving on to clean energy in a little bit more detail. You talked about I think at the end of the third quarter, you had roughly $800 million, in combination of verbal awards and things that have actually been signed. Can you talk about what you think its potential is to convert all of that into actual backlog in the near term?

Where we end up at the end of the fourth quarter, there's a couple of projects, should they're going to move that one way or the other, we feel really good about what we had announced on our third quarter call, quite frankly we were awarded other things on top of that. I don't have a perfect look as to where the number, there is a difference between being awarded a project or being verbally awarded a project and ultimately having it signed and there is sometimes a lag of potentially a couple of months that happen between that. So we're not worried the -- between the work that we've been verbally awarded, what we've worked on since then, and what we expect to be awarded. We think we're in great shape to -- kind of hit the numbers that we've been talking about for '22 relative to our clean energy business.

Okay. So it's not like these verbal awards, I guess the -- the concern with verbal awards is that, they can be more complicated sometimes depending on the project to actually get converted, but it doesn't sound like you have any particular concerns on what those projects are?

We don't.

Okay, good. You made a comment earlier about the wind business. It sounds like it's coming back, but just curious what it will take you think to get it to come back more fully or what is actually driving it now to turn back after you had a pause in '21?

Sure. Look, we had a great '20. There's no question that there are transmission constraints related to wind. We still had a very good '21. We expect to have a very good '22. So it's not like the business is in decline. The business is kind of in a flattish state, and so we think with the Build Back Better money that's going to be there and some of the transmission lines that look like they're going to get built, and some of the things that, they're going to come online within the next 24 months, we think the wind business has an opportunity to significantly expand even versus previous highs, right? So we're very bullish on the business long-term. In the short term, we expect to be a very stable business, a good performer for us, but one -- when you compare the renewables market and you look at the growth potential in solar versus -- or the wind business is today, we're obviously allocating our capital right now to where we think the biggest growth areas are.

Got it. And when we think about the solar opportunity, how should we think about the competitive conditions in that market? I know you have some core customers that you're working with and I imagine there it's perhaps not really even a question of competition at all, but I guess I'm curious as you think broadly about that opportunity, how many competitors do you run up against and what is your approach to selectivity?

We have a great set of customers. We have a great sort of wind customers that we've been working with for a long time that have all gotten into solar in a pretty significant way. There's also a lot of independent solar developers that are out there that are strictly building solar. What we saw in wind the long time ago was lots of independent developers that ultimately either merge or got bought out by a lot of the bigger guys are the bigger guys and there are we think dominating the wind market. We think that will ultimately happen in solar but the truth is right now there's so much activity happening that you can almost have to participate in both, there's a lot of growth potential with both. But I do think over time, that's the trend, right? We've tended to really focus on the large customers, the guys that we've got a long-term relationship with people that we understand what they want from a contractor. We understand what they're willing to pay for. So the customer base, it's undoubtedly growing, but it's still for us is still skewed to a lot of the bigger guys in the market.

Great. And you mentioned before, it sounds like you feel like you're comfortable being up the learning curve now on the solar business. To what extent would you say you're sort of more comfortably or fully staffed in energy business. Do you think you need to be as aggressive there in the hiring and expansion there or is it more of a moderate approach going forward?

So I would say, to achieve kind of what we've laid out for 2022 to this time, I think we're in a good position. We've got to add a little bit, we are in a fairly good position. If the reconciliation/Build Back Better plan passes, I think the opportunity for growth is going to be substantially more, maybe not in '22 but in outer years because of the money that's going to flow in. And if that's the case, then that happens in that opportunity is there, then we'll probably going to have to figure out a way to continue to grow to meet that challenge and opportunity.

Got it, okay. Maybe just on moving onto electrical, the INTREN deal I think was very well received, since it made a lot of sense for the overall business overall. How well now after a handful of months together, how integrated is it with the overall electrical business and are you starting to see any crossover there?

No question. First, one of the things that we really liked about the INTREN deal is the fact that there wasn't a ton of overlap, right, a lot of the markets they were working in were markets that we were very active in, so it gave us great geographic diversity. I think we've really been able to mine a number of those customers, to really cross-sell MasTec opportunities. And for other MasTec customers to cross-sell what are inherently INTREN capabilities. So we feel really good about the progress we've made there. I think it's going to help both companies I think it's helping drive revenue on both sides of the business and I honestly feel that that's just going to keep getting better as time passes and our relationships with these customers become deeper.

And as you think bigger picture here on the electrical business, what are the key things you think that that business needs to be as successful as you hope? Is it any more geographic reach, more project managers, more or different customers, more underlying skilled labor? What do you need to get it to achieve as much as you hope it can?

It's all of the above, right? There's no question that our customers have significant spend plans. They've got significant build plans for years to come. Obviously the way energy is being generated and distributed and delivered is changing right before our eyes. Utilities are having to meet those challenges, and they're -- they build on long-term plans that are going to have a significant spend relative to the type of work that we do. So to the extent that we can continue to grow that we can continue to add resources, equipment, the people is the most important -- most important part of this for sure and we're really focused hard on trying to continue to build that.

Okay. And maybe just the last couple of minutes on the oil and gas business. I think as you well-telegraphed heading into a more steady period of revenue level and I'm sure that require a little bit of different cost structuring, where are you on the cost structure there? Are you sized or that's sort of steady state business at the moment?

Look, I think that there's no question that we could do more with what we have. I think that the opportunities in front of us are developing at a very rapid pace. And we've got to be well positioned to be able to deliver on those opportunities over the long-term. So I think that's an evaluation, that's in constant flush but there's no question with what we have today, we can definitely generate more revenue and be bigger relative to that expense line.

And you've talked about some of these nice opportunities that are taking shape for the business that might come through in 2023 and beyond. Any more sense of when you might have visibility on those things that you think that something that we might not see until we actually get to 2023 or do you think there's some point in '22 that you might have some more clarity on when we could actually start seeing some bookings on those types of projects?

Look, I think we've got -- we're in constant dialogue with customers, I think we've got excellent visibility today, right, to the extent that we've got stuff that we can announce and stuff that we can book. I do think there's opportunities in '22, but for us, the booking is kind of the last piece of it to the extent that we understand where the business is going and we're really trying to right-size some of that businesses. The conversations and what we understand from our customers and where they're going to be is probably the most determining factor of that.

Great. Well, we are at the end of the session here. So I just want to wish you all congratulations on another successful reshaping of the business, to capture all the exciting growth opportunities that you have out there. And if we didn't get to address any questions that people have, feel free to send them off to me and we can get them addressed. And now I want to thank you for MasTec for being with us.

Thank you. Apologize for the technical difficulties earlier. Thank you.

Thank you very much.