Mastercard Incorporated (MA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon. I'm Audrey Choi, Morgan Stanley's Chief Sustainability Officer and CEO of the Morgan Stanley Institute for Sustainable Investing. It's an enormous privilege for me to be able to introduce this next discussion between Mike Froman, Vice Chairman and President of Strategic Growth at Mastercard; and our own, incomparable Vice Chairman, Tom Nides. The official title of this panel is Driving Financial Inclusion, but as someone who has been lucky enough to count Tom and Mike as colleagues and friends for a couple of decades now, I could promise you that you're not going to only hear about financial inclusion but also an incredibly rich and inevitably entertaining discussion on a broad range of topics from finance, policy, politics and what we need to do to truly build a stable future. Now both Mike and Tom are incredible multi-sector leaders who share passion for sustainability and a conviction that doing good and doing well go hand in hand. Having served at the highest levels of government, both have unique insight into public policy and the important interactions between business and policy to drive change at scale. Now I know that Tom is likely going to highlight Mike's extraordinarily impressive career in both the public and the private sectors. So I will forcibly restrain myself just to say that it was such a pleasure to first meet Mike some 25 years ago when, of course, we were both children, when we were both serving in the Clinton administration. And it's been incredible watching Mike's consistent commitment to equitable and sustainable economic growth and financial inclusion, whether he was at the National Economic Council, the National Security Council as the President of -- a member of President Obama's cabinet or as Vice Chair now of Mastercard. But before I turn it over to Tom and Mike, I just want to take a moment to place in context why Morgan Stanley is so focused on sustainability and sustainable investing. And it really is a direct result of Tom's leadership and his willingness to drive Morgan Stanley's long-standing commitment to sustainable finance as a core part of the business. Now these days, it seems that everywhere you turn, ESG and sustainable investing are kind of ubiquitous topics across Wall Street. And it seems that everybody is doing it. But that was absolutely not the case back in 2009, when Tom Nides championed Morgan Stanley, founding our Global Sustainable Finance Group. It was the first of its kind on Wall Street, focused on harnessing the capital markets, not just philanthropy or CSR but really harnessing our business to protect the environment, strengthen communities and create inclusive economic opportunities for all. And fortunately, because of Tom's leadership and consistent sponsorship, that was the first of many more times in the past 12 years that Morgan Stanley was able to lead Wall Street in commitments to sustainability. In 2012, we launched the Investing with Impact platform, which is Wall Street's first wealth management platform solely dedicated to sustainable investments that would be on par with any other investments in terms of returns in risk and drive impact. In 2013, when Tom rejoined Morgan Stanley after serving as Deputy Secretary of State, that's when we were able to double that even more and launched the Morgan Stanley Institute for Sustainable Investing, which is really dedicated to accelerating the whole field of mainstream finance looking at sustainable investing as a business. Our CEO, James Gorman, personally chose that Board of the institute, and James and Tom really have been enormous advocates and supporters of sustainable investing as a core part of our business. And more recently, Morgan Stanley has been able to continue to lead, being the first U.S. bank to commit to net-zero carbon emissions by 2050, aligning with Paris accords. And we've been really privileged to be able to work with corporations and institutions on groundbreaking transactions over the past decade-plus in terms of green bonds, sustainable bonds and other sustainable first-time transactions. And recently, we announced the commitment to mobilize $1 trillion towards sustainable solutions to support the UN Sustainable Development Goals. All of these, I think, underscore Morgan Stanley's institutional commitment and really Tom's personal commitment and leadership to making sustainability an integral part of our business. So I can't think of a better person than our wonderful Vice Chair, Tom, to lead this fireside chat with Mike Froman. And as you'll hear from Tom and Mike, both of them show an incredible commitment to how we can leverage policy and business and public-private partnerships to really develop sustainable solutions at scale for an inclusive and sustainable future for all of us. So Tom, Mike, I just want to thank each of you for your incredible leadership across the public sector and service to our country and the nation and the globe and especially, of course, for your time today. So with that, Tom, I will turn it over to you.

Thank you, Audrey. And Michael -- Mr. Froman, is your -- I don't see a picture up on the screen yet but I assume I see you. Thank you for agreeing to do this. And Audrey, listen, as you all know, there's a mutual admiration society. Stuff can't get done unless you have leadership. And there is no question that Morgan Stanley has led on the issue of sustainability, and it's been led definitely in a way that moves us down the field every day through the work of Audrey Choi. And as Audrey pointed out we were at the beginning of this journey together. In fact, if you look at the Harvard Business School, who did a case study, it really talks about the Morgan Stanley case study, which was really about Audrey Choi, about how she really helped create the momentum for this. And again, the only way sustainability works at a company like Morgan Stanley, and I am sure Mike will say at Mastercard, is people need to understand the economics of why we're doing this. Yes, there's a lot of reasons. We need to do it for the social good. We also need to understand that there's an economic opportunity for people to embrace this, and Mike and I will be talking about this. So Audrey, thank you very much for everything you've done. Mike -- I don't see Mike's face on the screen. So someone needs to figure that out because it's going to be hard for me to interview him. There he is. Hello, Mike.

Hey, Tom.

Audrey already -- yes, look how good you look. You look great. I should get one of those white...

I should have brought a tie for you.

Man, listen, you're the former ambassador. I'm just a guy who's at Morgan Stanley. So I wanted to first -- Mike is my friend, first and foremost. This is not going to be a hard-hitting interview. He and I have been pals for a long, long time. We started in government as very young pups. I'm materially younger than Mike. Well, you can see maybe not. But nonetheless, Mike has had an illustrious career, as Audrey mentioned. I think it is imperative to know that one of his roles was to be the Trade Representative. And for many of you who understand what that is, I would have to say it's probably one of the most difficult jobs in government given the fact that you are trying to manage an issue that sometimes is very politically fraught both in Washington but embraced in many countries around the world. And Mike have only had to try to open up markets to make sure the United States has a seat at the table in a very effective way as it relates to making sure the countries we're doing what we want to do vis-a-vis trade. And Mike, I will argue, was unbelievably effective for 2 reasons. One, not only is he a great negotiator, but he was also quite close to President Obama, as one would -- may know that he also worked in the White House running economic policy for the President as well. So I'm honored that Mike would take a few minutes out of his busy day to talk to us because he's obviously not only working at Mastercard, but he's doing things around much of his Board seats, including Disney. In case you want free Disney pass, he's on the Board of Disney and the Board of other companies. So you just call him, Mike, for free park passes. And the only reason I'm doing this is that I want to get a free park pass from Mike.

So let me just start with you, my friend, because I was blown away by the announcement yesterday of the $1.3 billion commitment that Mastercard did as it relates to COVID relief targeted specifically at Africa. Tell me how that came about and the thought process around -- I realize you don't actually run the foundation, but I know you guys are a team. Help the audience understand why you guys did what you did and the importance of it.

Well, thanks, Tom, for having me and for all the kind words. And it really goes go to the subject of this conference. When Mastercard went public back in 2006, the owners of Mastercard put 10% of the shares in an independent foundation based in Canada called the Mastercard Foundation. And at the time, that was worth about $600 million and knowing frankly -- you've had any idea just how successful Mastercard would be financially. And that foundation is now a $35 billion-plus foundation, one of the largest foundations in the world. And it's focused almost entirely on Africa, education, job creation and then most recently, dealing with the COVID crisis. And so it does operate independently from us with its own board, its own CEO. But we're very proud of the work that they've done. And yesterday's announcement not only to commit to bring vaccinations for 50 million people in Africa to the continent but very importantly to invest in the distribution and the health systems, the cold chain, all the supply chain elements that are necessary to get whosever vaccines into the continent, and to strengthen the health care infrastructure going forward and the other institutions there, like the Africa CDC. As a company, we also added to that about $100 million of a commitment. We had invested with The Gates Foundation and Wellcome Trust on therapeutics and testing, with Gavi on vaccinations and on technology to help deploy and track vaccinations as they're deployed in low- and middle-income countries and -- as well as dealing with the crisis in places like India and Brazil and with the vaccine hesitancy here in the United States and in Western Europe. So it's -- and we're very proud of it. And it underscores -- it's really sort of the origin story of our work on sustainability because it just underscores how much in the DNA of the company this notion of doing well by doing good is. And that set the frame that Ajay Banga, our Chairman, former CEO, then picked up on and developed our commitment to financial inclusion and the like, which I'm happy to talk about further.

Well, it's interesting, Mike. The one thing I was impressed by -- I mean listen -- I mean if you look at your -- the profits of Mastercard on a global basis, I'm sure that many of the countries where this money is going to are not necessarily material profit centers for Mastercard. And what was impressive about the commitment, it was so targeted at the neediest people in the world, and getting these treatments out to these African countries is going to be critical to get really our handles around COVID. Although obviously we benefit in the United States with the therapeutics that are widely distributed, the rest of the world, in many places and certainly in Africa, are way, way behind. So I applaud you guys for the work you've done. And I think it's a testament to your commitment. So help me -- because you and I have similar backgrounds. Obviously, you have a few more degrees than I do. But that said, we -- both of us have been -- worked in government and we worked in the private sector. You worked at Citibank. Obviously, I've been at Morgan Stanley 3 separate times, clearly the only place will hire me. But the fact of the matter is both of us come to the table, and we sit in rooms with people who immediately think when we walk into a room, "Oh my god. The liberal is coming in," right, "The guy from Washington is coming in." And especially when we start talking about things like ESG -- and again, as I've seen the evolution here at Morgan Stanley, help me think about -- as you say, it's in the DNA. I mean Ajay is someone who I have enormous respect for, for a long time. But how do you see the evolution at Mastercard? And how do you convince your fellow Board members and executive members that this is the right path to go on for the future of Mastercard and for your customers.

Well, I'd say first, we're not new to this. And this really goes back over a decade and what began as a commitment to financial inclusion then we created the Center for Inclusive Growth about 7 years ago. We committed to bring 0.5 billion unbanked people into the financial system. We measured it like any other KPI of the company. Every region had targets. Every country had programs. We actually achieved that about 9 months ahead of schedule in the middle of COVID and decided to double down. So it's been part of the fabric of the business for a long time. And as a result, I don't have to convince the Board or I don't have to convince senior management how important this is because they understand it. And they understand it, as you said, not just it -- because it makes you feel good but because it's the right thing to do. But we talk openly about doing well by doing good. And it sounds like a bumper sticker. But in our view, when we're bringing 0.5 billion unbanked people into the financial system, I can't tell you exactly how much revenue we're going to make off those individuals right now. But I can tell you that we are seeding the markets of the future and that those economies, if they're more inclusive and if they are thriving, it means our business will thrive too. And similarly, when -- we started working on environmental issues. We're committed to net zero. We've organized something called the Priceless Planet Coalition to plant 100 million trees. That's not only good in and of itself, but it is, I think, a key to attracting and retaining the best talent in the world, which is all about long-term shareholder value. The work we do with governments. I know you did a lot of this at Morgan Stanley as well, making ourselves indispensable partner of government in helping them to address their social and economic issues. That has spillover effect both in terms of revenue and relevance to those markets. It gives you a license to operate in those markets if government see you as a partner who cares about their issues. So all of this is about creating long-term shareholder value. And I think it's very important to keep that in mind that it's not necessarily short term but it is long-term value, and that's why we've got so much buy-in from management and the Board and I think from the investor community as well.

Can we dig in a little bit on this issue around financial inclusion? So help the people who are watching this understand how this is so critical because even I -- when I started reading some of the brief e-mail that someone had prepared for me, I didn't realize how many people -- yes, it's the concept of the non-banked. Obviously, it's -- I get it. But there is an enormous amount of people that have no access to anything even if they get some payments of some sort where they have no system in which to keep them, collect them, use them. So talk to us a little bit about what that means and how do you think about that.

So there are over -- estimated over 1.7 billion people who have no relationship with a formal financial system. And by the way, there's over 1 billion people who have no foundational identity. It's hard to operate an economy -- hard to operate in a digital economy when you've got no identity. You've got no formal papers. And so we've looked into this. We've made a judgment that the first thing we could do, what can we do as a company that's a network that can reach out, that has -- is operating in 210 countries and territories, what could we do that would help address this problem. And it really goes to this issue of financial inclusion. So whether it's, for example, helping governments reach individuals who they want to give support to, as we've done during COVID with about 100 governments around the world, helping them disperse their COVID disbursements to people who may not have bank accounts, who may not be in the financial system, helping micro-merchants get access to capital, who've done everything in cash before. So everything they've done has been visible. They don't have a credit rating. But digitizing their relationship with, for example, Unilever -- they're a consumer products provider, and a local bank in Kenya and creating that opportunity for that micro-merchant to develop credit capability and for that bank to feel comfortable lending them money to buy more from Unilever, to sell more to their customers, to hire more people, to expand their business, to have a more inclusive growth in that country. So that's the kind of work we've been involved in. But it's not just developing countries. And Tom, you'd be amazed. There are tens of millions of Americans, and the same is true in Western Europe, who are unbanked or underbanked. Oftentimes, there's a racial element as black families will pay 50% more than white families, on average, to access basic financial services, and so being able to do outreach with community development financial institutions with local governments to reach people who may not be part of the system now, bring them in, get them on a path towards financial security. It may start with payments, but it can lead to savings, to microinsurance, to helping pay for learning and training to get a better job. These are all things that are relevant not just in developing countries but in developed countries as well.

It would be interesting because I've met a lot of people who are listening, don't really understand Mastercard's business, not to be like, "I don't want to get into business," but everyone thinks it's a credit card. And then you send money to Mastercard. No, it's -- spend a minute. Just explain to people what -- actually what Mastercard is and what it isn't. Because I think it's -- I think people want to hear it because they see the commercials and they have in their wallet, but -- because it's got such a larger reach than people understand to be. So help just spend a minute just to make sure people understand it.

Sure. So...

Sort of advertisement for you. I'm like trying to get you like an advertiser.

Thanks, Tom. I appreciate that.

That's the least I can do. Yes, okay.

Look, I'd like to say Apple is not a fruit. Amazon is not a river. Mastercard is not a credit card company. We are a technology company, a network that operates in 210 countries. We've got more than 3 billion cardholders, and we connect 70 million merchants, 25,000 banks, something along those lines, so that complete strangers halfway around the world can enter into a trusted relationship in commerce, get paid, get access to their goods that they're buying. And everyone has assurance that people are who they say they are and that they'll be made good on the transaction. We are a major cybersecurity firm. We are a major antifraud firm because the more people go online, the more the digital economy grows. And the more people are dependent on the digital economy, the more important becomes to protect their security, protect their information, make sure that they have control over their data. And that's something that's very much important to our business as well.

See, it's just not a credit card company. Let's switch gears for a minute. Let's talk about the environment. Both of our institutions have signed on to net zero by 2050. Make it -- make no mistake. I mean there are plenty of people in Morgan Stanley's institution that have no idea what we signed up for. I assume that I probably won't be here in 2050. So when they are asking who did it, to us, that might be a bit of a problem. But talk to me about how you guys think about that commitment to sustainability and how difficult it was for you guys to do that journey to get to that commitment.

Well, like you, we don't want to commit to something that we can't take seriously. So we really dug into it and did a lot of research around it. And we became the first payment company to have science-based targets tied to the 1.5-degree Celsius trajectory. And we're very much -- we're zero carbon now, and we're very much committed to net zero by 2050. What that means is we're doing all the actions we need to do ourselves with our own use of energy, but also very importantly that most of our commitment will have to be delivered by working with our supply chain. And so we've begun that process of engaging our supply chain and getting them to commit to net zero so that as they do the hard work as well, we will be able to achieve this together. These are the so-called scope 3 commitments. But the one thing I would say is it's not just about what we're doing ourselves. We announced a coalition about 1.5 years ago called the Priceless Planet Coalition. We now have upwards of 50 partners who have committed to working together to plant 100 million trees. And that means marketing together to get consumers to contribute resources to planting of trees. We partnered with Conservation International and World Resources Institute. We've also created something called the carbon calculator, which allows a consumer to see their carbon footprint as they are spending money on their credit card and then to take action immediately to make a donation and plant trees as well. So we're both doing it ourselves, which I think is absolutely critical, but also using our position as a network to help mobilize even consumer behavior in this area to have a broader impact.

You make a very good point because it's the same issue with us. I mean, listen, we have obviously an impact on the system. But really it's our customers and our partners that's the multiplier effect because obviously, we're in the capital markets. We're creating fluidity in the markets, how we think about investing and who we think our partners are. The benefit -- the long-term benefit for all of us to be moving towards a target will only allow us to get to what we need to do. We can't do it on our own. We're just -- we're one player. Obviously, we're an important player. But all the financial institutions and certainly a company of the stature of Mastercard with your massive network and your reach will have way more, bigger significance than you as a company alone. And I think that is kind of magical from that perspective. Let us -- since you are an economic genius, let's talk a little bit about President Biden because -- I know it's not on my thing. I'm doing it anyways. I'm going off-script. Talk to me where do you fall down on this question around stimulus, inflation, infrastructure. How do you think about this wearing your old hat, your new hat. We obviously have a lot of commonalities with the players involved. How do you think about this as the direction of the administration?

Well, you certainly overstate my economic credentials. So -- but let me say...

I'm just reading the facts, man. I don't have any...

But let me say, look, I think it's awfully important that we come out of this crisis not just in the United States but around the world with a strong and inclusive recovery. And I think the actions that have been taken to date, we're already seeing. When the crisis hit, we laid out a series of stages that we saw of containment, stabilization, normalization and growth. We see the beginnings of that growth phase here in the United States, parts of Asia Pacific. But around the world, there are still a ways to go. I mean most countries are still in a normalization phase. And obviously, some countries are still dealing with hotspots. So it's vitally important that the U.S. but also the U.S. and its G7, its G20 colleagues work together to ensure that there is a plan towards [Audio Gap] Here in the United States, it has been a broadly agreed-upon view by both parties that we need investment in infrastructure. And we see it in our airports, in our ports, in our roads. And the investment in infrastructure, provided it's -- they're well-thought-out investments, almost always pay off as a multiple of the dollars invested in terms of increased productivity. So I think further investments in infrastructure would be very good for the United States. And when the United States is growing further, that's good for the rest of the world as well.

So putting on your Mastercard hat. So do you guys have -- your thumb on the economic growth both in the U.S. and around the world just by -- you can see this through volumes? Some people would suggest that this is going to be the Roaring Twenties. I mean I went to dinner last night. I couldn't get a table. Maybe it's because they didn't want me there. But by and large, I feel New York coming back. We both live in Washington. I'd see the shows. So do you guys see that this is like a hockey stick recovery going on right now? Or are we still lagging here a little bit?

Well, I think here in the United States, we see a decent growth coming back. And even -- you see it in various sectors. During the crisis, we saw significant upticks in areas like groceries and home repair furnishings. Now we're seeing the return of domestic travel both here and intra-Europe. But there's still, I think, a long way to go before we see a full recovery. And I don't think it's yet -- I don't think we can yet tell what shape the curve is going to be. It's really important -- and it goes back to your very first question. It's really important that we get the whole global economy back on track. And to do that, that's going to require that kind of vaccine -- equitable access to vaccines and a concerted approach by all the major economic powers, international financial institutions and others to really ensure that this recovery comes back and it's inclusive.

Yes. I think it's -- one thing you guys have spent a lot of time on this question about inclusive growth and I think it's no other time than now is -- it's important that we -- as we think about it here and you guys are way closer to average consumers than we are at Morgan Stanley because many of your consumers are certainly not -- are both at the high end but at the low end of the economic scale. And my fear is as things come back, those at the bottom of the quartile of the recovery are still going to be in a position they were when they got -- went into the COVID crisis. So how do you guys think about that at Mastercard? Because I think that is -- really is the threat to the success of this recovery to make sure it's inclusive. And how do you think about that? Sorry about that for a little -- we had a little technology issue. But we're -- we fixed it. So we got a couple of minutes left, and I wanted to -- just to kind of finish our thought about this question around economic inclusion because one of the biggest worries I think all of us have, who are advantaged here in the system, is how we're going to make sure that this recovery is really equal to everyone and not just those of us who are at the top end of the economic scale. And I know you at Mastercard are very much focused on this, which is the inclusional part of the recovery. So how are you guys thinking about, not only the programs -- we talked a little bit about access to banking and consumers. But how do you think about how we push down this recovery to make sure everyone is receiving a little bit of the upside?

Look, I think it's a multipart answer. And part of it is access and inclusion to the digital economy because I don't think you can do much in this economy if you don't have that kind of access. But we also see the notion that you and I have benefited from, working for an employer who provides us with full benefits. That's a bit of an antiquated notion these days or it's all too rare. And so for people who are stitching together 2 or 3 part-time jobs or freelancing, they're working for gig-economy companies, how do you help them create a package of benefits that are portable, that are centered around them, that they can take from place to place to support health care, support lifelong learning, we're working on that as well. And then some of it is just making it easier to do the basic things. It's -- people have spent an awful lot of money on getting access to basic financial services. It is expensive to be poor. And if we can make it easier for you to get access to your wages when you want them, not have to wait 2 weeks so you don't have to go to a payday lender, or to take a -- a check that you get and deposit it on your phone even if you don't have a bank account, to be able to send remittances, or to build credit not just based on whether you paid back a past loan or what the balance is in your account, there are a lot of things we can do to make it less expensive to be poor, give people access to the networks they need for more productivity, access to capital, access to loans in a responsible way. And that -- those are all things that companies like ours can work in our network to do, and those are all things that we're working on.

So Michael, one of the things -- and I think you and I have talked about this before, but I know Mastercard has spent enormous time on the issues around diversity, both racial, ethnic diversity, obviously given the fact of the breadth of your network. How do you guys think about this, obviously coming out of the year anniversary of the George Floyd? And more importantly, just that it all is part of who you guys are. So how are you guys thinking about the whole issue around diversity and inclusion?

Well, as a global company, we very much focus on diversity and inclusivity in its broadest form, and inclusivity means something different in one country to another. There are different challenges in different geographies. As you pointed out here in the United States, obviously, we've had a big focus over the last year on racial reckoning. We launched a program called In Solidarity. A lot of them was about working with cities on their challenges around race, but some of it was certainly focused internally, how do we make sure we are attracting, retaining, promoting the best quality talent in a diverse way. We -- it's so obvious from our Management Committee or our management processes, having diverse voices around the table makes for better decisions. And we've got diversity in all of its dimensions there. We want to make sure we are promoting more Black Americans because we're underrepresented, our senior levels. So we've committed to increase our vice presidents and above by 50% over the next 5 years. And we're taking that very seriously in the same way that we took gender very seriously over the last few years as well. So I think companies have things they need to do internally, making sure it's a workplace that is open and welcoming where people can bring their full selves to the workplace, and we may take a number of steps to make sure that our diverse communities feel comfortable in the workplace but then also make sure that we're creating career paths and opportunities and mentorship and sponsorship to ensure that we're getting diversity at all levels of the organization, including the most senior levels.

So Mike, how do you see the role of Corporate America? Because there's been enormous debate about how we all use our voices vis-à-vis different initiatives that are going on and these debates about how far we go. And how do you see the role of a company like Mastercard on the debate stage vis-à-vis these issues?

Well, look, I think there's been a pretty significant evolution over the last few years in the debate around the role of the corporation in society. Whether it's Larry Fink's letters or the Business Roundtable statement, every Board, every CEO is thinking through what is the role of the corporation in society. And I think for every corporation, it's likely to be somewhat different. But I think what's important is that they figure out how to translate these very well-meaning statements and commitments into action and into reality in a way that's authentic and genuine to that company and that can be integrated into the business model so that it's not just a hobby or a project or a pilot, but that is something that can be scaled because the only way we're going to have an impact on any of these social and economic challenges we have out there is if we have scaled interventions by the private sector, where our innovation, our ingenuity, our motivation, our resources are brought to the table in a commercially sustainable way. Philanthropy is great. It's critical. Philanthropy can play a role in investing for the long term. It can take certain risks. It can help the enabling environment. Government, as you and I know, is critical in a number of respects. There are certain things that only governments can do, but we're only going to achieve the Sustainable Development Goals or address challenges like COVID or other major issues if we're able to mobilize commercially sustainable social impact by the private sector.

And if you have to judge -- if someone said to you, Michael, you've done your job on Mastercard for a period of time, how do you judge your success? How do you say, "Mike did a really good job?" I mean obviously, your job is very broad. And obviously, you have lots of different things. We're only touching one piece of your job, and I realize you've got a very big plate of stuff. But how do you define success in the role that you have today?

So it's a great question. I think we always have to keep in mind ultimately impact. What impact are you having on the problem on the ground? So how many people are being run into the financial system? Are they enjoying greater financial security? Do they feel part of a more inclusive economy? That ultimately has to be one of the measures of our financial inclusion efforts. But I also think from a company perspective, being innovative, coming up with new ways and having social impact on a commercially sustainable basis, bringing together -- using our assets like our network to bring together other companies and bring them to the table so -- to help them also achieve these objectives, those are all ways that I would measure our success, and we're very pleased to do that. And we recently did a Sustainability Bond, the $600 million Sustainability Bond that focus not just on environment but also on financial inclusion. We've gotten a ton of incoming inquiries from other companies who want to use our framework as a model as they do this because they see that there's a real market out there for this. And then we went and did a lot of the basic work, hard work that needs to be done to create really a framework that has integrity and we're offering it to others as well in that regard.

Well, listen, Michael, I think our time has come to an end. But I want to say a couple of things. It's rare for any of us to be -- have the honor of both working in the government and working in the private sector and then working in the government, working in the private sector. And I think ultimately, for people like you and somewhat people like me, I think we make ourselves better at what we do. So I think I was a better person in the government because I had the experience in Corporate America, and I really think I'm a better executive in Corporate America because I worked in government. I think it brings these -- the thought process together as how you think about how different people view different issues. Just spend a minute on that because I think it's important because people hear what they want to hear as it relates to people that have done both careers. And I do think we don't do enough of that, in my view, and that includes people going from the NGO community into the government, the government to the NGO community. It's not just going into business, but there's a lot of other worlds of nonprofit. I just think it's imperative that people not only give back but they come out to see how people perceive us depending on where you are. So how do you think about that as an executive now and as someone who, I'm sure, will be going back to government at some point. Don't tell your guys at Mastercard, but I'm assuming that it will be happening soon enough.

Look, I'm in violent agreement with you. And I think it's one of the strengths of our system that we're able to bring people from diverse backgrounds, as you said, from NGOs, from academia, from think tanks, from law firms, community organizers and the private sector and bring them into government and have the wealth of their experience sitting around the table making much better, much more informed decisions. And then similarly, when they go back out to whatever sector they came from, being able to really understand how government thinks through policy, what's really viable, what can get done, how do you manage the politics around issues, I think it's absolutely critical. And when I look at other countries -- and you -- Deputy Secretary of State, you traveled all around the world. There are a lot of strengths to the system in the United Kingdom or in France, where you have truly professional civil service that go all the way up to the top of agencies. But they don't have that kind of dynamism that comes from people going in and out of government at the senior levels in quite the same way that I think is the source of a lot of America's creativity and innovation and leadership on the public sphere.

Well, Michael, thank you for doing what you're doing. Thank you for agreeing to spend a few minutes with us, and thanks to the leadership at Mastercard for doing everything they're doing to make the world a little better place. Thank you very much.

Tom, thanks for having me.