Matrimony.com Limited (MATRIMONY) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Matrimony.com Q2 FY '25 Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this call is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Abhisek Banerjee from ICICI Securities. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Hello, everyone. On behalf of ICICI Securities, I welcome you to the Q2 FY '25 earnings call of Matrimony.com. Representing the company, we have Mr. Murugavel Janakiraman, MD and CEO; and Mr. Sushanth Pai, CFO. Thank you for the opportunity to host this call. Over to you, Mr. Janakiraman, for your opening remarks.

Okay. Thank you, Abhisek Banerjee. Good evening, everyone. In quarter 2, due to seasonality, we had a decline both on quarter-on-quarter basis and year-on-year basis. While we had 2 consecutive challenging quarters, things have started progressing in the right direction. The first thing is the profiles have started to bounce back. We are having a good increase in profiles. Coinciding with the massive upcoming wedding season where over 4 million people are expected to tie the knot. We have launched a 360-degree great Indian matchmaking fest commercial across India, where are giving special benefit to our paid users like discounts from over 200-plus brands. We also started seeing uptake in the fresh payment. Due to 2 quarters of decline, renewal may take one more quarter. We see renewal payments to bounce back from quarter 4 onwards. We have taken Anil Kapoor as a brand ambassador to promote community-based matrimony sites. We are strengthening our offering and the processes to increase the momentum in the coming quarters. I have to state that we have launched the following offerings. We launched app luv.com, in the matchmaking space to address next-generation serious relationships. The offering will focus on the theme of love before marriage, thereby building a clear differentiation and addressing the market potential in India. We intend to monetize this a couple of quarters down the line. We are also experimenting a commission-based model in the bidding services under a brand called Make My Wedding in Chennai. This is designed to connect customers with the set of curated experienced vendors in the initial space and offering exclusive deals and support through a dedicated relationship manager. Whether the customer looking to get married, whether looking for a single service or range of services, they need to pay a subscription fee to avail the services. Our relationship manager will understand the requirements and set up curated service provider. The vendors -- the customer interested, we also get a better deal. We also get a commission from the service provider. This service is being piloted in Chennai. And apart from the discounts and getting the service from that trusted and reliable service provider, the customers also get special discounts on the shopping from the top brands. We already tied up with the top brands in Chennai, including brands like GRT to get a special discount on the jewelry shopping. We launched a new line of business called manyjobs.com to focus exclusive on frontline and entry-level jobs. The initial launch completed for the Tamil Nadu market in both English and vernacular. The initial phase will be built the ecosystem to get traction in Tamil Nadu. We need to keep this free until you reach a critical benchmark acceptance and success. So this job portal, it's a sort of India's first gray collar job portal and focusing exclusively on the frontline entry-level jobs and the focus is only on Tamil Nadu at this point of time. We are in the process of launching a business in the area of wedding loans. A customer-first [indiscernible] lending platform, creating an industry-first dedicated category for facilitating wedding loans in collaboration with the leading institution. This product will be launched during this month. I'm also excited to -- I'm proud to state that matrimony.com has officially been certified a Great Place to Work by an assessment conducted by Great Place to Work India, based on the feedback received from all our associates. This recognition reflects our commitment to fostering a culture of trust, respect and the collaboration complemented by dedication and contribution of leaders and all our associates. Now coming to the results. In quarter 2, due to the reasons already explained, we achieved a billing of INR 111 crores, a decline of 5.5% quarter-over-quarter and 5.2% year-on-year. Revenue at INR 115 crores, a decline of 4.2% quarter-quarter and 5.5% year-on-year. The key highlights for the matchmaking business for quarter 2 are as follows: the billing at INR 109.9 crores, a decline of 5.5% quarter-over-quarter and 4.3% year-on-year. Revenue at INR 114.3 crores, a decline of 3.7% quarter-over-quarter and 4.1% year-on-year. We added 2.4 lakh paid subscription during the quarter, a decline of 6.4% quarter-over-quarter and 4.9% year-on-year. [indiscernible] for the matchmaking business has been flattish both on a quarter-over-quarter and year-on-year basis. We create about 30,600-plus success stories. Now coming to the marriage service business and other businesses, which includes the investment in making other initiatives. The billing were at INR 1.18 crores, a decline of 2.3% quarter-over-quarter and 47.6% year-on-year. Revenue was INR 1.24 crores, a decline of 37.2% quarter-over-quarter and 49% year-on-year. Loss in the quarter was INR 3.64 crores as compared to losses of INR 2.21 crores in quarter 1 of FY '25. Losses increased mainly due to investment in the launch of new initiatives. On the billing and revenue outlook for Q3, the matchmaking billing expected to come back to the growth levels in Q3; however, that revenue declined due to the muted billing growth in quarter 2. In Q4, we expect both billing and revenue growth to move to a better level. Married Services is expected to be at similar level of Q2. Now let me pass on to Sushanth to comment on the key profit highlights. Sushanth, over to you.

Thanks, Muruga. Our EBITDA margin for the matchmaking business in Q2 is at 22.6%, same as in Q1, an increase as compared to 21.3% a year ago. Marketing expenses for matchmaking in quarter 2 is at INR 45.2 crores as compared to INR 47.1 crores in quarter 1 and INR 46.1 crores a year ago. So you would have observed we have optimized the marketing expenses a bit in this quarter. Excluding marketing expenses, our margins in the matchmaking business is at 62%, same as in Q1 and 60% a year ago. On a consolidated basis, our EBITDA margins in Q2 are at 15.2% compared to 16.7% in quarter 1 and 15.1% a year ago. Tax rate in the quarter is at 23.3%. Profit after tax is at INR 13.2 crores, a decline of 5.8% quarter-on-quarter and growth of 5% year-on-year. Share of quarter 2 loss from Astro-Vision, which is our associate company, is 3.5 lakhs. Our cash balance is at INR 379 crores, declined slightly as compared to quarter 1 due to the dividend payout. ROCE annualized is at about 13%. On the outlook for quarter 3 margins, we expect the profit after tax to be lower than the levels of quarter 3 of last year due to the investments in the new areas. I would like to end with a customary safe harbor statement. Certain statements during this call could be forward-looking statements on our business. These involve a number of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from such forward-looking statements. We do not undertake to update any such forward-looking statements that may be made from time to time by or on behalf of the company, unless it is required by law. We can now open the floor for Q&A.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Rushabh Shah from Buglerock PMS.

Am I audible?

Yes, you are audible.

Questions from my side. So since you were spending more in the non-South markets for the expansion purposes. So how have we benefited in the terms of revenue? And what are your further expansion plans?

Thank you, Rushabh Shah. Actually, so we now started investing because last -- we've seen that -- we have not done much on the North India. And once again, we started investing. We launched The Great Indian Matchmaking Fest campaign in North India. We've also taken Anil Kapoor as a brand ambassador pretty much for the North and Western markets. So intent to invest behind the North market in particular, so sort of -- we see that the market where overall the advertisement spend has come down. And we also did not invest much in the market for the last couple of quarters. And [ commencing ] wedding season, we see that from now to March, there are 4 million weddings that are taking place. And we intend to leverage that wedding season and also we realize that we want to invest in the Northern market. We also see the opportunity in the community-based matrimony side. That's the reason we've got Anil Kapoor as a brand ambassador. So going forward, we intend to invest in the North...

Sir, what I understand from this industry is, is more the marketing spend, more you are competitive and more you are there in the industry. So is it about the survival of the fittest, like who can spend more and who can create more brand image in the eyes of people?

So the thing is that definitely, in this category, we've seen that a couple of years ago, that definitely not a couple of years ago, we've seen that increase in marketing spend much more than what was warranted. Probably we've seen that some other markets and some other players, that is -- the marketing spend has come down. It's something with the market-specific products in the marketing spend are also player-specific. Generally #3 player that fairly now kind of reduced the marketing spend. And #2 player, again, they have been advertising in various markets, some other markets are investing heavily. And we realize that the competition intent continue to be there, while it's not that all the players have stopped advertising. So in a way that, as I said in the past, the high marketing spend may not continue for a long term, which you have already seen happening in one of the players. We continue to maintain at a certain threshold as a leader in the category. So we may see progress. We hope that things will get optimized. Having said that, even marketing spend, it cannot go beyond certain limit. There's no point in spending beyond a certain threshold; however, as a leader, we need to maintain a certain level of visibility and to ensure that our brands have sufficient reach and the brand visibility. So -- and also the way that the media also moving today, not only TV, there are other forms of media also. The media shift has been happening. So you have to have the presence in various mediums. So yes, there is an increase in marketing spend happening in the category because of the other players spending that money. If that comes down, we also may reduce the marketing spend.

Okay. So my next question is the Elite or Premium Matrimony. Since those are completely different type of clients we have with more ARPU. So do we have any plans to grow that particular business? It's a very small, but very profitable kind of business for us.

Yes. You're absolutely right. So you may know that today, we have a presence in various airports. We are the first company to set up exclusive experience center in the various airports. Today, we have presence in 8 airports across India for Elite Matrimony. And we're definitely looking at Elite Matrimony as you rightly said, the premium segment is an opportunity, though it's small at this point of time. So we intend to focus, intend to grow that business as well. So the reason for setting up our Elite Matrimony experience centers in various airport to create enhanced visibility for Elite Matrimony. So that has been doing it. So...

Perfect. Okay. And sir, my next question is do customers who do not find their match and are in the mid type of services, not in the Elite, not in the below type of services, in the mid segment, move up the service...

No, the thing is that for us that, Rushabh, is that selling the right package to the customer, what is the appropriate package to the customer. So not all the customer can move up. The Elite matrimony intended for rich and affluent for Elite. If someone not found the life partner in the next -- the package -- the lower package doesn't mean they move to Elite. Elite needs to have a certain level of net worth or certain criteria to be part of Elite matrimony. So our intention has always been our thought process -- our approach has always been selling the right package to the customer. So if the customer can use the online package, we'll be happy to put those customers on package. When a customer needs assistance or better or faster the match, we may recommend a matchmaking service. It's not that people move up. It's based on the socioeconomic status and what kind of product they need.

The next question is from the line of Madhur Rathi from Counter Cyclical Investment.

Sir, I wanted to understand in our Marriage Services business, we have been making constantly losses and our revenue has kind of flattened. I guess you mentioned that it will grow going forward. Sir, I'm trying to understand when can our losses reduce? Or do we have any plans for making this segment profitable? And similarly on the revenue structure side, sir, what kind of growth can we expect from this segment over the next 2 to 3 years?

The line was not clear. Are you asking about Wedding Services?

Yes, sir, I'm asking about the Marriage Services...

Sorry for interrupting you, sir. Your voice is not clear. Can you speak little loud?

The question was about marriage services [indiscernible]. If that question is right, Madhur, let me explain. I hope that is your question. So Wedding Services, so now the wedding bazaar is there with a marketplace model. And while that is at a certain level, and we see that business has a certain level of potential. But you are looking at the commission-based model. We believe that can be a better opportunity, which again we are piloting in Tamil Nadu at this point of time in Chennai. So basically, instead of the wedding bazaar model where we generate the lead and pass on to the vendor and get a subscription revenue from vendor, we are looking at getting a commission from the vendors. So that's the model we are piloting it. We think that is a better model. Again, however, it's still in the early stages. We want to try it out and see whether we could able to make it successful. So we are confident about the pivoted to this model. We believe we're able to make it successful. So probably a better update in the coming quarters. And if this business takes off, then we could be able to reduce the losses and also move to a better growth in wedding services.

Okay. So as I understand, sir, this business seems much more lucrative from our main business, and it looks like it can grow much faster. So on a growth front and at what level can we expect at least a breakeven from this commission? Or if you can just help us understand how are we planning? Because I guess in our investor presentation, we have highlighted that we have a network of 200,000 vendors. So if you could just help us understand how can this become profitable as well as what kind of revenue growth can we expect going forward over the next 2 to 3 years from this segment?

See, the wedding services today is very miniscule. So you're able to get the product markup right, Make My Wedding where you facilitate wedding services, where you get the money from the customers that also commercial vendor. If this picks up, we're able to make it right, then obviously, we may see a better growth. However, as I said, still in the very early stage, we've just been piloting the last month or so. So it's too early to comment on that. Again, we told you it's a very miniscule at this point in the overall scheme of things compared to we are talking about wedding industry. And the next 4 months alone, the expectation will be that INR 3 lakh crores will be spent on wedding-related services. So that's a massive opportunity. However, you have to get the current model of wedding bazaar seems to be sort of having certain challenges. We are now piloting this model. Let's see how it progresses. If that progresses, the growth can be much better; however, it's still too early to comment on this.

Sir, just a final question from my side. Sir, we are currently doing the buyback. So why are we doing the buyback at such a premium, there was an opportunity to do a buyback before the 30th of September where we could have get the indexation benefit, but even that has not. So I'm trying to understand why didn't we deploy this capital much more efficiently than like right now doing a buyback?

See, basically, the Board available in the -- various way to [indiscernible] shareholders. And so this was the second buyback. And we discussed with the Board and we thought it's better to write a certain premium, and it was a Board decision on the buyback. Again, as I said, it's one of the ways to reward the shareholders.

The next question is from the line of Mr. Abhisek Banerjee.

Sir, in the matchmaking services business, the billings number growth has still been subdued, though your commentary kind of suggested that there are going to be a lot more weddings over the next few months. So how will you kind of correlate those 2 data points?

Yes, basically, Abhisek, so we are just focusing on the new model of wedding services. That's where the focus is. So we want to cut down the losses in the other form of wedding services and we want to focus on the nativity. So this model, again, we told you, we've just been kind of piloting only in Tamil Nadu. We just want to get the product right and offering right before you take the other market. The reason for the decline is because of the way they are optimizing the cost, optimizing certain things. So we want to run the wedding services at a certain level and drive the -- sorry, the existing business at a certain level and try to achieve the breakeven and profitability and investing in the new offerings in the wedding services. So that was the reason we saw that...

I'm talking about matchmaking services...

Matchmaking, okay, sorry, I thought this on the wedding services. So matchmaking, what we've seen that in the last couple of quarters in some of the markets, particularly India, there's a prolonged -- no auspicious days for weddings, particularly market like in South some other markets. So one of the reasons we also saw that post-COVID where the spike in profit happened after that some subdued in terms of profit growth. However, as we speak, the things have started to bounce back. The profits have started growing and also the wedding season has started. And we also made some changes in our way we do things. So the good thing that the profits have bounced back and fresh payment, even the month of October, there is an increase in the fresh payment. Even the month of November, as we speak, the increase in the first time payment. But the renewal may take us one more quarter because since we had 2 quarters of decline, it may take one more quarter to bounce back. So while this quarter, we may move to the growth level, it still may be very, very marginal. But starting Q4, we see that both fresh and renewal have moves up, we'll move to the growth levels in both -- in quarter 4 on both on billing level and revenue level. We believe that I think the first half, the things happened in the history of matrimony. We hope we don't get into any degrowth against for. I think that's where we are strategizing and working out things. So we also executed on new ideas, new things. I believe we are in the right path on -- I think we'll be on -- starting now, we'll be getting into the growth trajectory.

Got it. But sir, just to understand, what kind of volume and what kind of realization growth are we expecting going ahead?

We may expect some increase in ARPU slightly, possibly because -- quarter 4 onwards. And volume may also increase. But we are not giving a number at this point of time. Again, we have to wait and see how the whole thing will work out. But definitely, this outlook is for us, increasing both in ARPU as well as...

It will volume led that we can assume, right?

Yes, there will be volume growth. Both will grow. We expect the volume growth also, also that we have some -- maybe some margin increase in ARPU also...

Got it. But sir, how does that -- I mean, given you are also extending your presence in northern markets, how do you expect suddenly to increase ARPU on top of that? So are there any additional services that you're going to be offering within matchmaking? How will you manage to do this?

See, one thing is about online matchmaking. We also have the premium services, you have assisted service, Elite service. And also Q4 normally is a good quarter. So the combination of the increase in the personal services. So we expect there is some margin increase, but mostly it will come from the volume growth.

Okay. Sir, one of your competitors seems to have -- seems to be doing slightly worse off because of whatever fall out with their backers and all. Do you really see any consolidation happening from that side?

No, we don't see anything at this point of time. But if at all, any opportunity, we'll evaluate it. But we don't see anything at this time of time.

Understood. Now if I come to the wedding services part of the business, there are start-ups which are doing -- which have gotten into it, and they seem to have found a product market fit of some sort. Is there anything that we are learning from them? So is our new strategy kind of based on that? Or is it something we are trying on an experimental basis?

See, the category is, Abhisek, large enough. So different models can evolve. So at this point of time, we initially began with the market-based model. Now we are thinking on the commission-based model. So when the category is large enough, different models may evolve. But based on our experience based on that large number based on what you have studied, we at this point of time, we think this is a model we want to go ahead with. And so let's see how it evolves.

Okay. And just one last question. This one is on the new business that you have started in the employment space. So that is also kind of taking on one of your competitors head-on. And that company has notoriously been increasing their ad spend in the last couple of years. So any reason why you are suddenly getting aggressive on this? Is this a flanking strategy? Or is it something that you really believe can become a growth driver for you in the future?

No, we definitely think it can be a growth driver for long run because being in the business for almost 2 decades, we understand the consumer segment fairly very well. So we have not launched yet another job portal. So in a way, we launched sort of first of this kind, it's focused on frontline and entry-level jobs. So we are keeping this at this point of time-limited only to Tamil Nadu because we see most of the openings or the most of the attrition is pretty much in that segment, frontline entry jobs. We are bilingual. We want to tight on one market. We are, in a way, competing with any player in this space. So we are not competing with the other established players. So we are just focusing on the one segment of the frontline entry-level sort of gray color jobs. That's our focus. So again, we want to keep it at this point of time to free and we are getting a reasonable number of resumes on a daily basis. And once you reach a certain threshold based on the acceptance, then we may intend to monetize, may take it to other markets. Time being, it's more of -- we saw an opportunity, keeping a long-term outlook of opportunity in India and based on our experience, we feel this is an opportunity in this space.

The next question is from the line of Darshan Shah from Multi-Act Equity Consultancy Private Limited.

So my question is regarding this comment that you made with respect to profit for the next quarter. So you mentioned that the profit could be lower next quarter. So just wanted to understand this is because of certain investments that we are doing? And would they be in the existing segment or it would be in the new segment?

So it's a combination of both. So because of the reason the profit will be slightly less on account of one is that the billing growth -- degrowth in quarter 2, that will translate to the -- billing in quarter 3 may move up, but the revenue will be down on account of the lower billing in quarter 2. Plus some of the new initiatives launched that new initiative may call for some investment. So plus also the quarter 3, the wedding season has started. So there will be some increase in marketing on our core business also. The combination of some increase in marketing in the core business plus also invest in new business, it may lead to some drop in the revenue compared to the earlier years. So we are making investment, we expect the quarter 4 where things will move back and both revenue will move up and billing will move up. So the profit also start move from quarter 4 onwards.

Okay. And with respect to the Google -- so there was this benefit that we were supposed to get, right, around 3 percentage points. So when should we see that kind of flowing through?

No, actually, we are not -- one of the things we have to know the cost of Google at this point of time.

Sorry? Sorry, I missed that.

Am I audible?

Yes, yes.

Yes. I think what you're referring to is that last year, we had Google, right? And this year, we don't have that benefit has not come. See, this year, what has happened, like Muruga discussed, quarter 2 has been a muted quarter. There has been billings fall. And in this year, quarter 1 also had unusual number of inauspicious days. So both put together, the quarter 1 billing also fell, otherwise, usually, quarter 1 is a strong quarter for us. So that created a lower revenue in quarter 2. And therefore, the overall PAT has come down as compared to or rather that Google benefit has not come back to us. So we believe that as we go along, when things bounce back, we are seeing, like we said, the fresh is coming back, the renewal may bounce back in quarter 4. And with all of these new initiatives with focus on personalized services, creating this great Indian matchmaking fest, all this put together, in quarter 4, we believe that some effect of the profit should come back.

The next question is from the line of Rushabh Shah from Buglerock PMS -- sorry for interrupting you, sir. Your voice is not clear. Could you speak loud?

Am I audible?

No, sir.

Can you speak a little louder?

Okay. Sir, what is the criteria for Elite Matrimony? Suppose a person wants to show his profile on the Elite Matrimony, so is there a huge screening process or anyone can be on the Elite Matrimony profile?

No, not anyone can be on Elite Matrimony. You have to be Elite to be part of Elite Matrimony based on net worth or income above a certain threshold or based on your education or profession. Only meeting certain criteria, you can be part of Elite Matrimony. It's a private database, it's a confidential database [indiscernible]. So paying money doesn't get you into Elite.

Okay. Okay. And sir, one question on the profile. Safety is one of the most important things for us in the matrimony platform because we hear a lot of scams related to this. So what are we doing on those fronts like lead profiles getting leaked, fake profiles, and what are...

Yes. No, there's -- it's not Elite profile. By the way, Elite is privately -- yes not -- can see Elite profile...

Not just talking about the Elite segment, in general, sir.

In general. Sorry, okay. In terms of -- yes, there is a thing about while there are like security measures where people need to -- highly verified profiles are there and profile -- each and every profile go through OTP based mechanism. However, there are some challenges. That's a fact. So there are some -- people misuse the photos. Sometimes there are fraudster who try to use photo to get a fraud -- and try to scam people. But our -- when we get millions of profiles, there are [ 65 ] million people added to a platform, the number of such things are very miniscule. However, as a brand as a trusted player, leading player, being a pioneer in this space, we need to continue to evolve and figure out ways to do that. We'll continue to evolve, but still there are some challenges at this point of time. In fact, a year before we got Vidya Balan as a brand ambassador to educate people on these online matrimony scams. So, however, the numbers are small, miniscule; however, it's a concern, it's one of the challenges the industry is grappling with. So that's not only online matrimony, the various forms of online industry are facing various forms of fraud. So -- there's lot of challenges, our category is about this kind of some fraud and all the things. We figure it out. I'm sure as we progress, we could be able to figure out the ways to address the user. The other challenge is not only the profile of individuals, there are parents and relatives also use the profiles. It's not just [indiscernible]. There are some challenges. We continue to educate. We also continue to evolve and figure out how to completely stop. But at this point, there is no foolproof mechanism to address this one. So whatever measures you take, it's about user being diligent about it. And while our education -- will communicate to people that don't send money to any fraudster for whatever reason, but still some people end up in getting [indiscernible]. So yes, fraud is one of the challenges, so small, but it's a industry problem that we need to address it.

So my next question is what -- sir, after someone has got married on matrimony. So do you meet with them or do you call them for their feedback? And how do you improve on the negative ones?

No, we have definitely that -- we constantly get feedback from customers and customers also give feedback to us. So we -- the product improvement is a continuous process. Service improvement is on an ongoing basis. So that happens regularly. We also reach out to people who are getting married through us. Yes, we get feedback from customers.

Sir, any of the negative feedback would you like to say, if you've got and you've corrected them?

No, no, that's -- we are dealing with millions of users and particularly service category, we are not offering any product. So definitely, there are the ongoing feedback. So on the product side and how to -- that's an ongoing thing. So there's nothing one specific I can -- there is ongoing suggestion, ongoing implementations happening because we are talking and dealing with millions of users -- Abhisek...

My next question is we had stated in 2022 that the wedding bazaar will be a INR 100 crores business in the next 3 to 4 years. So are we on that path? And how far are we from that, sir?

No. As you know, we are trying for the new model. So it depends on how successful new model -- how successful the new model are going to evolve into. So at this part of time, we are piloting it. It's too early. If the business picks up, again, you are talking about a very large industry and it become successful, yes, we can achieve it, but it depends on how well we execute and how well that people are accepting this opportunity. And it all depends. But we believe there's a big opportunity, but you have to execute well and ensure that this opportunity, whatever launch become highly successful.

Okay. So my last question is, as you say, you are in this business for a couple of decades. So how has the transition been on the online marriages in the past, let's say, 8 to 9 years? Have people been more accepting to do a marriage online, which they didn't think about it before?

No. Absolutely. So today, online matrimony is one of the most preferred source of finding life partners for anybody who is looking at getting married. So the industry is being more than 2 decades, and it's well accepted and the most preferred method of finding life partner. So that has already happened.

The next question is from the line of Amit Saxena, an individual investor.

So I understand that we have a market share, we are market leader and we have a market share close to 60% pan-India. But when it comes to the region-wise split, would you like to share the -- I would like to know what kind of market share we have regionally. So I understand in South, we are at the top, but probably in North, we are weaker. So can you give us the sense of the market share in the region -- in the 4 regions?

So very difficult. Definitely, we have a very high market share in South and definitely a leader in West as well as in the East, very difficult to quantify what level of leadership in the West and East. But not definitely one of the players we need to definitely catch up. That's the reason now we have kind of once again started to invest in the North Indian market. As I said, we bought Anil Kapoor as a brand ambassador for community matrimony, and we also started investing behind this for the Great Indian -- for the upcoming wedding season, we launched The Great Indian Matchmaking Fest. So we hope that going forward, with the focus on the North Indian market both for Community Matrimony as well as for Bharat Matrimony, we believe that we could increase the market share in North India. So at this point of time, what is the exact percentage? Yes, one thing -- definitely not the one market, we need to catch up, but we hope we can make inroads in the North Indian market.

So sir, related to that, the marketing expense that we do on a yearly basis, which probably runs from INR 150 crores to, say, INR 200 crores, which is the annual run rate. Is it right to assume that a larger portion of that goes to the North Indian market where you want to capture should that reading is correct?

No, it's not definitely an expensive market. Yes, some portion will go in the North Indian market. Again, the marketing spend also sometimes based on seasonality, we also put some adjustment. It's not a static investment of so much goes to North India. We just -- within the marketing thing, we try to -- it depends on seasonality, it depends on the opportunity. We do some kind of adjustment in the marketing campaign. So last couple of -- investment in North Indian market. Now we see the time to invest in the North Indian market. So those kinds of adjustments we do. And again, our budget is broad-based across India. So not only goes to the North Indian market. We do spend some amount of money in the North Indian market, but North, anyway is quite expensive market also and the [ GECs ] are quite expensive. Yes, it depends on the region. It depends on the opportunity in this market and depends on the media, yes, the budget gets allocated accordingly. We don't do any sort of proportion allocation, okay, this much budget for north, all the things. We try to juggle out the market spend according to the opportunity, according to the seasonality also.

Okay. Okay. Sir, on the ATV, the average transmission value, which you report roughly INR 4,500 per user. So -- I mean -- is it blended -- I understand it was blended average. But you do -- our new initiatives like Jewelry, which is -- which -- ATV will be much, much lower or Elite Matrimony, which will be much, much higher than the average. So is it right to assume that the blended average of INR 4,500 is for our basic of the starting product and is not kind of blended because of the other products like Elite or Jewelry because they are very different price points? So...

No, it's a blended because obviously, Elite and all very small part of our revenue. So it's a blended. So it's a combination of all the packages put together.

Yes. But majorly will be the 3 or 6 months package in the normal space of which we offer. But what I wanted to ask is that do jewelry or Elite matrimony do distort our average number? I mean are they as big as that it can distort the average number? -- that's...

Smaller business, it doesn't distort the number. No, there is a proportion of Elite as well.

Yes, there's a proportion of Elite, there's a proportion of assisted as well, so which are higher ARPU at this point is blended, including Jodi online assisted Elite. So the ARPU increases if the premium services goes up, the ARPU increases. The bottom of the pyramid increases, ARPU goes down also. It depends on which segment of the category grows. So accordingly, ARPU maybe move up or move downwards.

Okay. One last question from my side. So our -- if we see the last 5-year trend, we do see that the number of users are going up probably from 7.5 lakhs 5 years ago to say, probably 10 years, 10 lakhs now on a yearly basis. But our average transaction value has been more or less [indiscernible]. So is it right to assume that -- I mean, we don't have much pricing power on the average transaction value, given that the kind of inflation we see going on in the last 5 years, we don't see any improvement there? So let the presence over there.

No, basically, so I think we have to see it differently because it was not the case 5 years ago, we didn't have Jodi, which is price very low. So we didn't have that offering. So if you include Jodi, obviously, that's a -- very price very low. So the blended ARPU also includes Jodi as well. So if you have to include Jodi, obviously, ARPU would be better. But in the -- what you are seeing is the blend of all this package include to Jodi and everything that's the reason the ATV at this level. So it's not that, yes, Amit, one thing is to look at that we also not increase the price in some of the segments. So we try to -- in some segments, we try to sell it at a different price. So yes, today, online is operating at a certain ARPU, which have not increased the price for some time, which is right; however, we see the opportunity in the premium segment, and that has been going up. So we achieve progress, we may increase the price. Over the last couple of years, we have not done much on the price. As we look at whether the scope to fine-tune the price...

Thank you. As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to management for closing comments.

Thank you -- Thank you, ICICI Securities for hosting this call. If you have any further questions, you can write to us. Have a good day.

Thank you so much. We look forward to connecting with you in the next quarter. Thank you so much.

On behalf of ICICI Securities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.