MaxLinear, Inc. (MXL) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hi. Good afternoon, and welcome to our 49th Annual TMC Conference. My name is Bill Peterson. I work on the semiconductor equipment research team. We're pleased to have MaxLinear's CEO, Kishore Seendripu; and CFO and Chief Strategy Officer, Steven Litchfield. I've asked the team to spend a few minutes providing a quick overview of the company. I will then move to the fireside chat with a number of questions. In addition, please feel free to submit questions using the blue Ask a Question button under the video player, and I'll do my best to incorporate them into the session. Welcome, guys. Glad to have you here, and look forward to the talk. So over to you, Kishore.

Thank you, Bill. It's a pleasure to be in this virtual conference from JPMorgan. MaxLinear, now, we're in a pretty -- it is our 10th year as a company post our IPO. We specialize in making highly integrated radio frequency analog and mixed-signal digital SoCs. Our target markets today span in all markets where there are massive data bottlenecks. So what we like to say is that we solve data bottlenecks in the communication networks from the cloud, over the cloud, into the home and throughout the home. By that, the -- our markets basically enable us to take a really broadband RF mixed signal technology and solve the data bottleneck speed inside the home or outside the home. Our first -- our biggest part of our revenues today are in access -- in connectivity and broadband access. In that, basically, we do the consumer premise equipment, where we receive broadband data signals, be it -- or cable, or even fiber and distribute inside the home using Wi-Fi, G.hn, which is powerline connectivity and MoCA, which again broadband connectivity and distribution over coaxial cable. So a very comprehensive connectivity portfolio, probably 1 of only 2 players in the world with such a comprehensive portfolio and connectivity, which includes Ethernet. And on the access side, we have -- we are the only platform player that provides both the access technology, the gateway processing technology and all the software that goes with it and provide our own silicon -- 100% of our silicon is on the gateway CPE device. So you can call it a one-stop shop. And we have the same strategy for both cable and for fiber. Fiber is a market we have just entered. We got some significant marquee design wins that will show up as great revenue growth prospects as we exit '21 into '22 and beyond. So we're very, very excited about that. The growth in this market area for us has come through content increase primarily, where the -- originally, we would only provide the access piece where we receive the signal. But now we do the gateway processing and the distribution as well. So our content has more than tripled since maybe 2 years ago. And on the Wi-Fi connectivity, as we said, we're very, very proud of our Wi-Fi portfolio. We're 1 of 3 players with the world's most premier wave of 600 product, and soon Wi-Fi 7 product line. That's a tri-band solution for really enabling 10 gigabit type of data bandwidth distribution inside the home. And we are on the Wi-Fi test bed alliance actually. So anybody who wants really Wi-Fi has a [ certificacy ] product. The next big market, we have been investing for the last 4 years, is infrastructure. It constitutes primarily network infrastructure on 5G wireless, and the other -- and transport. And then the other area is basically in optical high-speed interconnects for inside the data center. On the 5G wireless, high-speed network infrastructure, we do the massive MIMO radio transceivers for the 5G remote radio heads and active antenna systems. And we also are the only single full system solution provided by transport -- wireless transport, which is basically backhaul, which involves microwave or millimeter wave transport. On the optical side, we entered the market kind of late. Late is the wrong word. We were not originated to all organic investment. We leapfrogged the PAM4 market and started investing in 400-gigabit PAM4, 100-gigabit for single lambda solutions, wherein you get 400 gigabit, 4 lanes of optical coming inside and electrical side, there are 5 -- 8 lanes of 50 gigabits. And together -- so you have 400 gigabit of optical coming in and 400 gigabit of electrical going out. And we tried to leapfrog our competition. We are in very advanced stages of qualification for a major operator, web-scale operator. And we're very excited that towards the end of the year, we should start shipping in this market. So -- and along with -- on the -- likewise, on the 5G side, we've got some important design wins with 3 major carrier operator OEMs. And as you all know, 5G has been delayed related to what the world was expecting, but we have got very strong traction. In fact, we started shipping in the first half to an OEM or a North America operator recently. We've also announced an alliance with Facebook for their Evenstar Open RAN Alliance. We would be the -- for the macro base station market, and we're very excited about that. On the backhaul, wireless backhaul transport market, we are the world's only single system solution provider. We have strong traction, which is growing as the 5G rolls out because outside the U.S. wireless is a pretty dominant transport mechanism for wireless, and we are seeing growth happening to that. If you really step back 4 years ago, our infrastructure revenues were practically 0. Today, we have told to the investors in the last earnings call that we are on target to hit about $130 million of revenues in 2021. So -- by any means to build the infrastructure revenue in such a hard market, it's a huge testament to our team's execution capabilities and the same kinds of prospects for growth in the future because 5G access and optical high-speed interconnects have barely started to take off for us. So we're really excited. There's a third prong to our whole investment thesis as organically and inorganically is we've got a pretty nice sophisticated high-performance analog market, which is primarily industrial interfaces and bridges between various serial transceivers or USB bridges and Ethernet bridges products and also encompasses our power product line. The power product line is critically important because on all our platforms, while it is in the wireless access -- on the broadband access and connectivity business or in the wireless and optical infrastructure markets, there's a significant amount of power content, and our idea is to own all the BOM around our products. And so the power product usually is as much of the BOM as the main transceivers. So we hope to increase our revenues through proliferation of our power products in wireless infrastructure and in the connectivity and broadband access business. So that's the overlay of our product lines. If you have -- if you need clarification, please feel free to ask. So let me open up the discussion -- for discussion right now. Okay.

Yes. That was a terrific overview. Thanks for that. Of course, top of mind for all of us is, right now, demand clearly seems to be exceeding supply pretty much across the board. Every semiconductor company may have different nuances and certainly, you're in the same position. Can you just give us your latest update on the supply situation? It feels like really this is going to be with us, at least through the remainder of this year, potentially into next year. I think you mentioned it could ease maybe later this year, but potentially go into next year. Some peers are saying that demand is exceeding supply by even like 40%. Can you help us understand that demand profile for your products? And I mean the differences between your various segments, connectivity was held back in the first quarter, broadband appears to be held back a bit. Currently, anything notable between product lines?

Great. It's a very good question, Bill. We have fantastic demand. And I want to characterize our demand, hopefully, in a very differentiated way relative to what you're hearing about other peer group. It's not even the peer group, in the semiconduct business, in general. For us, our growth is coming -- hopefully, we're all smart about not counting -- double counting orders. Even if we -- we are very good about parsing through that. Our demand is coming on our broadband connectivity side through actually share gains, an increase in BOM content on our platforms. For us, so it's really a secular growth phenomenon that we're driving on, and supply in that sense is very critical because as we gain share, we don't want to lose the momentum if there are supply challenges, right? And so as the BOM expansion means that every new platform is shipping but increasing our content, so the amount of silicon we need is much more as well. So that's the broadband access and connectivity portfolio direction here. And a big part of it is that, for the longest time, people were thinking that the broadband access demand is driven from work-from-home with the COVID situation. That's not true at all. Our growth is coming to content increase. At the same time, we're gaining share in a major North America operator, and we're getting design wins in fiber as well, which we'll start seeing the benefit of. And thirdly, I think that the broad -- if you look at the operator spend, everybody has announced intentions to increase their spending on the operator side because there's generally a big increase in bandwidths that are people who want to consume. So we're benefiting from that. So for us, supply constraints are really around increased demand for more new products, okay? And our shortages or demand is being crimped -- our supply is being crimped because primarily this year, we have been fighting battle through on packaging side, substrates and lead frames. And we are hoping that we can ease the situation by the end of the year by bringing multiple suppliers online -- lead frames, and substrates packages. So, so far, we have not had demand issues that are being affected by wafer supply. We got that covered pretty nicely so far, right? So you never know what happens in this environment, right? So I think we feel good that towards end of the year will ease that situation. Regarding backlog, it's a very moot discussion. We have got more backlog for the next 15 months than we know what to do with, right, so to speak. But we want to make sure we shift to real demand in the endpoints and not count backlog that is being provided because of lead times. It is a very different situation. Secondly, we also see a lot of new products growing and design wins in our connectivity, Wi-Fi, Ethernet moving into next year that we hope we're not constrained to share, right? These are all brand-new sockets. We're very excited about our connectivity also should exceed our growth projections pretty strongly if we can meet the supply because there are a lot of new OEMs who want to ship our product. So that's the broadband side. On the infrastructure side, it's really new product ramps, right? And the new product ramps always have a struggle because forecasting demand is very difficult. In the initial year, early on in the previous mindset, we would be conservative about how we place orders, right? Let's see the ramp settle in, you get some buffer and stuff. Now we have changed our tactic completely, and we are ordering from a more of an annual demand perspective, trying to reserve as much capacity as we can so that we don't thwart our own ramps, right? So we need to make sure -- so the new product ramps in wireless and optical, we're being very, very careful and watchful to make sure we can ramp. So there, the demand, again, is driven by substrate shortages, right? So we'll be constrained by that. So on our high-performance analog product lines to the industrial multimarket or otherwise, we are not limited by -- overly by supply constraints. We had that very much under control in a sense that that market, generally, you have a lot of inventory, right? It's -- in the channel, and we've been able to meet the band very nicely. And hopefully, we don't fall into a supply constraints at all. But we are seeing some pickup in that market as well. So hopefully, we could continue to maintain our -- if it can solve our packaging challenges, we should be able to fulfill the demand and have some ease of its supply towards the end of the year. That's our thinking right now, okay?

Yes. I guess you mentioned you have an elevated backlog. I know it's only been a few weeks since earnings, but how are lead times been trending? Are they still expanding? Are there any signs of stabilizing at this stage? Or again, it might be very -- a little bit varying by product type?

So obviously, there's a variation related to product type and what our own inventory supply chain is and things like that, right, and the package side. However, in general, across the board, the lead times have exceeded from what it was 2 months ago. But right now, the IP have stabilized although the lead times are pretty long. They can range from 40 weeks to 50 -- 50 to 50-odd weeks right now. So the situation right now is predicated on packaging and lead frames, right, and substrates. So we have not seen any effect of any foundry issues yet. So if that situation remains that way, we should start some easing up going on by the end of the year. But at this point, that -- those are the lead times we're dealing with.

Okay. Maybe moving on to broadband and connectivity, kind of grouping them together, although there's a bit different products. Obviously, you had the acquisition last year of the Intel Home Gateway products, which brought a lot of scale and kind of you're now offering kind of more complete solutions, you have Wi-Fi business. But I guess just maybe for broadband, what is your current view of the, let's say, the transition from DOCSIS 3.0 to 3.1? I mean how much more runway do we have with the current transition?

There's a lot more room for the transition to happen. I think we are hitting right now more than 50% penetration, driven primarily by the North American markets and some Western European markets. However, there's opportunity to -- of 3.1 to keep growing as a share as it replaces 3.0 in the other markets over the next 2 to 3 years. And generally, my own personal experience is that you get closer to 100% over a 4-year window, and we are now in the beginning of the third year window, so across the 50% point in this ramp. And -- so I think there's some more runway left. Basically, it means good things in terms of ASP expansion, right? So there's some more room last year for 3.0 to be replaced by 3.1. But for us, the bigger part is that on a 3.1 platform, we have a BOM expansion going on, right? And that's even more relevant for us. So it's going to be disproportionately more coming from the BOM expansion than you would otherwise see from a volume growth.

You discussed market share gains, and this is really, I guess, share within your customers as well as maybe your customers' market share gains. How much of your growth expectations from here are based on further share gains versus market growth that we've seen here?

We are pretty much hitting the run rates of where we have typically in the cable market worldwide, right? You want to be -- it's a 2-player market. It's 50% less minus 5% share is we have always maintained, and it may fluctuate on a yearly basis. But in the previous 2 years, we had taken some hits because there was some issues for our major OEM to have qualification, a major North American operator. But beyond that, I think we'll get that gain share going in another next 2 to 3 quarters. By the end of the year, we hope that we are at that sort of equilibrium point, and that's our expectation. So we've got a couple of more quarters of growth left. Now with all the supply situation, everything, can we get more market share, we can supply more product? Absolutely. But at this point, I would say we got maybe a few more quarters -- maybe 3 to 4 quarters left for the share gain to happen. It's complete to the point. Yes. And then of course, in the other markets where -- on the fiber side, where we have no share or little or no share. And there, we're going to go from maybe 2% to 3% of the market to a huge run rate of growth because we have the premier platform for the XG-PON market. And a major operator has selected us in North America, one of the premier operators. And that starts to become a showcase for other operators adopt our solution.

Okay. Again, it's kind of related, and you talked about BOM increases, the connectivity business, which you guys include your prior MoCA, G.hn, plus newer segments such as Wi-Fi and Ethernet. I guess, can you help us understand the relative size of the major components today? And I mean you've obviously talked about Wi-Fi potentially -- well, doubling this year or potentially doubling again next year. Trying to get a feel for the various growth outlooks for the various segments, first, at a high level, and we'll dive in a little bit further.

So let me just get a -- just a few words in before I ask Steve to elaborate on this. Look, all our connectivity products are growing. They're all going very, very healthily. It's not just that one is a bigger size one, but they're also -- when you combine the wireline, connectivity, they are not small either. right? So Steve, you want to take it from here?

Yes, Bill. So we haven't broken out exactly all the pieces of the connectivity box there, but clearly, the largest is Wi-Fi. We did identify that we did on the order of $25 million last year, expecting that to more than double this year. And then, Kishore, as he mentioned on the earnings call as well, that probably potential to double again. I mean we often -- this business, I mean, a couple of years ago, Quantenna was running this thing at $200 million-plus a year. And there's a clear line of sight kind of getting north of $200 million over the next call it, 2 to 3, 4 years here, and we're getting great traction thus far with the operators. That's kind of the low-hanging fruit. And then we can start to expand beyond that in carriers, and then even beyond that as well with the retail guys also. So that's the largest portion of it, Ethernet is a big driver as well. And then you do have the MoCA and G.hn business that we've had for a number of years. G.hn is a little smaller business, but MoCA is a sizable business, continues to grow. I think given the whole dynamics that we've seen over the last, call it, a year where within the home, people are really recognizing the need for MoCA, needing to increase the quality of that service within the home. There has been a lot of speculation that Wi-Fi would take that, which with the Wi-Fi offering, that's fine. But I think I would look at it a little differently. It's more of a -- the level of market that you're looking for. On a high-level product, you're going to want the MoCA solution. And then on a low-end product, you can get Wi-Fi. And -- but importantly, most of the operators are deploying it with -- and so then the user has that capability.

Yes. You kind of talked about earlier, currently supplying in the gateways and so forth with opportunities to expand your Wi-Fi portfolio. Can you remind us of the content opportunities you see when -- for the Wi-Fi 6 boxes? And how that is even maybe even better with Wi-Fi 6E? You have the WAV664 series, for example. How do your content opportunities trend for Wi-Fi and then, of course, Wi-Fi 6E?

So we have a range of Wi-Fi SKUs and products, right? So if you really look at today, right, in a major gateway operator box. The Wi-Fi 6 can be anybody in $10 to $15, I would say, more closer to the $15 -- $12 to $15 range. When Wi-Fi 7 happens, tri-band, it could be as high as $20-plus, $20, $25. So you can see that the connectivity product and if you include Ethernet into it and MoCA into it, on any home major gateway operator if they have any of these components, you're looking at this one to be significantly higher than the main processor itself, the network processor itself in the gateway. So it's a huge growth opportunity. And at the same time, we are not just focused on operator gateways alone, we have actually got major design wins in -- at significant players who are not in the operator space. For example, if you look at major players in China and so on, who -- where we don't sell the gateway products, but they really love our Wi-Fi products. One of the things was that Wi-Fi 6 happened, our competition did not go to -- they were not focused on an access point offering where you would have double the bandwidth. Traditional ones are 80 megahertz, and 160 megahertz was what the access points needed. And we leapfrogged to that. And as a result, there's not a very meaningful access point offering at that bandwidth in Wi-Fi 6 except the MaxLinear silicon. Of course, the Wi-Fi 7 will all be in the even playing field on that bandwidth side of it. However, we've got a very, very good position on the Wi-Fi 6 side, basically, right? And our 6E's ramping to production now and then we are working on our Wi-Fi 7 products. So there's significant gains to be had in Wi-Fi in terms of ASP increases. I think you roughly want to think about major gateway platform $12 to $15, and then a retail platform could not have that kind of a -- or a mid-gateway would be maybe $5 to $10 -- not $5, but around $10 range, right? Let's say that would be the 2 ranges you want to think about. Any subsequent generation would at least add ASP increases by about 50% or more, okay?

Okay. No, that's great. Another area you guys have been more vocal about it, but it was obviously one of the pillars you got from the Intel acquisition is Ethernet. You spoke about it a bit earlier for these same type of boxes, Wi-Fi 6, laptops, industrial laptops and so forth. How much does Ethernet add in terms of content? And I guess, maybe collectively, what kind of attach rates are you seeing with Ethernet and really Wi-Fi? And what other opportunities do you have beyond the gateway with Ethernet products?

Look, we have a one-to-one attachment rate on our gateways with the Ethernet product, right? But we have all the generation products that are gigabit Ethernet, right, and that are on our platforms. And then there's a new generation products where it's 2.5 gigabit Ethernet. I just want to point out that we are the world's premier 2.5 gigabit Ethernet PHY solution and PHY in controller solution, and we all -- we have a range of offerings. We have single, 2.5-gigabit PHY. We have a quad PHY, that's 4 of those and in one -- and so again, that to be a very unique unit offering, and we are by and far ahead of any of our competition with a very optimized low-power silicon. And so we have a lot of design win traction outside of the gateway boxes for even the retail and other people's operator boxes, right? So one of the things that's happening is the laptops, other products are all going -- are migrated to 2.5 gigabit, right? So there's a huge movement of 2.5 gigabit. And the beauty of 2.5 gigabit is that it uses the same Ethernet cabling in your home and everything you want to replace the cabling, whereas 1 to 5 gigabit or 10 gigabit, the cabling has to be completely changed. And so 2.5 gigabit is a sweet spot, which is just about right, where with existing cabling, whether it's enterprise or nonenterprise, where it is the sweet product line. So there's a huge growth opportunity in front of us. We're winning designs. It's growing very, very strongly, and we'll be bringing out more products on the 2.5 gigabit side pretty soon. So I would say right now, on the 2.5 gigabit side, pretty much, we -- they may be the -- I hate to say one only player, there's competitions, product that need to get fixed. But if there's a 2.5 gigabit peak thought about, our competition is either selling their 5 gigabit or 10 gigabit as 2.5 gigabit, which means they don't have their cost excellence to fight that, or we are the only product of choice right now, okay?

Yes, that's a great overview of the combined segments. Moving on to infrastructure. This really feels like it's on track to kind of deliver on the promise after we had Huawei bands last year. I mean you're still fighting supply constraints. But your backhaul business appears to be recovering. Access appears to be taking off a bit. When you look at your growth for this year, I think you said 130 -- approximately $130 million. Can you break down just at a high level, the main drivers? It seems like backhaul transceivers and modems are a big part of that, followed by massive MIMO transceivers, and then maybe just rounding it out would be more of the business around the PAM4. But if you can kind of break down the growth between those this year, that would be helpful.

Steve, do you want to take that?

Yes. Sure. Yes, Bill, so you're absolutely right. The majority of that, I mean, as has been the case over the last year, the backhaul and HPA business are probably the biggest contributors in that infrastructure number. If you recall, the transceiver product for our backhaul market, has been a -- it's a new product. We've had it designed in for about 1 year, 1.5 years now, and it's just moving to production. We saw a little bit of it last year held back because of the Huawei band, but we've really seen it come back last quarter. It came back -- it sort of came back really in earnest. A lot of that was driven by backhaul demand. And I expect this new product as well as our modems will continue to drive good contribution all year long and good growth all year long, and backhaul. So that is definitely the biggest. We saw a big recovery on the power side, so server power management, something that we're very much focused on. Expect that to continue to show growth throughout the year. And then the 2 exciting areas, I mean PAM4 as well as the 5G access, we'll have nice contributors. PAM -- sorry, well, the PAM4, that one first, to your point, much more back-end loaded. Not a huge revenue contributor this year, but much more meaningful in '22. But it will be nice to finally see that ramp start to happen on the PAM4 side. And then lastly, the 5G access piece. So 5G access, showing good contribution, first product to revenue in Q1 as expected, and frankly, as planned for some time. And that should continue to grow throughout the year. So we'll see a bigger contribution each quarter throughout the year. And then I think in '22 as 5G really gets going in earnest, particularly in North America, I think we could see more growth following that.

Sure. And I guess the wireless access, this you've called this a pretty sizable market, I believe, $0.5 billion by 2023. Can you give us a feel for how does this progress from 4x4, all the way up to 64x64? I think you have -- 8x8 is on the come here. You mentioned earlier, O-RAN. That feels like it might be a bit further out, but if you can walk us through the projections out over the next few years of the access business.

So sort of -- I want to point out that in the wireless access, we are not the incumbent, right? Historically, it's been ADI and TI and other discrete component makers. We shook up the market by coming with a CMOS 14-nanometer single chip, 4x4 transceiver then we leapfrogged with 8x8 RF transceiver. In a sense, we drove the market to these new levels of integration to drive down the cost and sort of help the transition to these higher order massive MIMO configurations. But we expect that it's going to -- and we expect that the transition to higher order bit rate, 64x64, it's going to take about 3 to 4 years to get there, initial months or 16x16, or 32x32, particularly because China so far has been the driver and when the U.S. imposed export bans, obviously, we got hurt really, really bad. But beyond that, they also changed their strategy and said they are -- Chinese have their own solutions, 4x4, and let's stick to that and reduce the order of the MIMO to 32x32 so that they've all traded supplies internally. So the market has sort of got a slowdown, and the China, in fact, even now is going slow, as you must all be aware of it. So North America, we told that with the license purchases from AT&T and Verizon and then Dish trying to roll out all their spectrum, we should start seeing a big boost to their rollout. Now Dish's would be lower order end deployment because they've tried to roll out a pretty basic network. And I'm assuming that Verizon and AT&T will go at it, so will T-Mobile. And that will take about 3 to 4 years to play out. I would say they would start at maybe 32x32, and then we head to 64x64 over the 4-year window. Now beyond that integration levels, I would say that it has the rationale for suppliers like us to even drive that, right? So I would say that right now 8x8 is a sweet spot from a chip supply point of view. Obviously, moving forward, you could further expect further integration. Now how does it all tie into our strategy, right? Obviously, that means that moving to more advanced nodes, lower the power because power is a huge part of the IT problem because they don't want to bring in extra power, and that's a huge cost of ownership challenges that the 5G players are facing. But for us, the O-RAN development is a long-term game plan, where we want to own everything inside the remote radio unit in the macro basis. If we want to be the platform just like our gateways, and why not? We have all the technology. We have the transceivers. We have the DFE technology. We already do that. And we have the gateway processor technologies. So we can put all the pieces together and make a single macro-based station remote in your unit, right? So for us, this is a longer-term plan as the O-RAN happened as an alternative to the major OEMs, whether in Europe, there are only 2 and they want more auction, if you will, and the segregated system and the inter ops really become more critical, we want to be right there with our solution, right? And so for us, that's the longer-term game plan. It's also on the entire platform in an O-RAN world for macro-based stations.

Right. We're just about out of time, but I wanted to ask you about your 5-nanometer 800-gig optical product set to sample this quarter. Help us understand -- obviously, you're looking to leapfrog the competition at this stage, but help us understand when do you expect the products to ramp. Is this 2022? Or is this really something down -- a few years down the road?

So well, you wait for next week, and we may have something to share, right? OFC is around the corner. So obviously, we are seeing some exciting results right now. So let's hold it there, right? So we feel very, very good. And I really don't see -- this is about us catching up and leapfrogging the competition, and we having the comprehensive portfolio right now, but the big growth is going to come from 400 gig, 100 gig stand-alone solutions, right? And the 800 gig will be the successor product. If you really look at the market, right, today, the hyperscale deployments are pretty fragmented. You have Google and Facebook doing 200-gig products. And then Amazon wanted to do 400-gig products. Now so there's a dichotomy there and Microsoft's sort of behind there, right? And -- but they've all agreed that they're all converging on a 400-gig or 800-gig platform in the next generation of switches. And so you should expect that to happen in the 2-to 3-year window, right? We'll have products ready next year. And then probably the ramp happens always later than you think, let's say, by '23 and '24 beginning, right? And so what is the difference here between why all of them are agreed upon? So today, if you look at the world, it's 200 gig optical in for Google and Facebook and it's 200 gig electrical out. So 4 lanes of 50 gigabit, 4 lanes of 50 gigabit of electrical and on 400 gigabit gateway. And the Amazon configuration is 4 lanes of 100-gigabit optical, 8 lanes of 50 gigabit, right? So that's a 400 in. All of these guys considered the 100 gig electrical lane as a sweet spot, basically 4x100 coming in, 4x100 going out or 8x100 coming in, 8x100 going out. So the whole world will be harmonized just like 10 gigabit. 100 gigabit will be the sweetest interconnect speed for almost another 10 years to come maybe beyond. Just like 10 gigabit has been the driver, the whole world will converge with the platform. That's the great trust of our 5-nanometer investment is to have the best solution for a market where -- which is going to be the mainstay of the world for a long, long line time to come. And today, with the consolidation of everything and where we are, we collectively are seeing a very, very good position to be a major player in this market.

That's a terrific overview. So many more questions I could go to. Unfortunately, we're out of time. We look forward to monitoring the progress here of your various product cycles and growth opportunities, and thanks for joining our conference. Really appreciate it.

Thank you very much, and you're welcome. Look forward to talking to you guys again. Bye.

Bye.