Megacable Holdings, S. A. B. de C. V. (MEGACPO) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning. Welcome to Megacable's Third Quarter 2024 Earnings Conference Call. With us this morning, we have Mr. Enrique Yamuni, CEO; Mr. Raymundo Fernandez, Deputy CEO; and Mr. Luis Zetter, CFO. Let me remind you that the information discussed in today's earnings call may include forward-looking statements on the company's future financial performance and prospects, which are subject to risks and uncertainties. Megacable undertakes no obligation to update or revise any forward-looking statements. I will now turn the call over to Mr. Enrique Yamuni. Sir, you may begin.

Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. I would like to start by addressing some key achievements of this quarter. 100,000 kilometers of distribution network, 17 million homes passed, 5 million broadband subscribers, 10% revenue growth, 33% CapEx to revenue rate and declining and lastly, positive free cash flow. The organization is pleased with these results. As you know, our company is focused on two main strategic [ axis ] of projects, the evolution of the network and expansion into new territories. And both initiatives are evolving satisfactory driving sustainable subscriber growth as well as revenues in EBITDA generation. Starting with the first of our strategic axis, our legacy territories, we remain focused on consolidating our presence and enhancing our network infrastructure. During the quarter, we converted [ 1,100 ] kilometers of network to FTTH technology, bringing the total to 38,800 kilometers since the initiative began. As a result, 73% of our subscribers now receive their service through fiber optics compared to 59% a year ago. In these territories, we maintain a significant penetration rate which leads to a steady subscriber base. We are focused on improving service quality and offering a competitive service to the best-in-class infrastructure. Our margins in organic territories remained strong at healthy levels, reflecting the long-term operations efficiencies we have built, reaching 47.9% for the first 9 months of the year and the penetration in the expansion territories rises, our consolidated margin should get closer to this level. By upgrading its network infrastructure, Megacable remains ahead of technological trends improving the customer experience and strengthening its market position while realizing both economic and sustainability benefits through advanced technologies. Regarding the second strategic axis, our expansion into new territories continues to progress well as the [ newer ] growth in these areas, steady margin improvements are observed as penetration rates increased. As of quarter end, we have already reached 8 million homes passed in expansion territories, turning into the main contributor to subscriber growth over the last few quarters. In that sense, we are growing according to the plan, and this growth should continue for several more periods, giving us an opportunity for significant revenue growth with an investment that has already been made. And finally, regarding our financial profile. As we near the completion of the expansion plan, our CapEx-to-revenue ratio significantly decreased from 41 as of September last year to approximately 32% in the first 9 months of 2024. As we continue to consistently increase revenue and EBITDA cash flow generation will improve in the coming periods. We will maintain discipline in our capital allocation with no large scale projects planned for the coming years and financial position that will lead us to cash generation in the near terms. Our solid financial position is reinforced by a recent reaffirmation of our AAA credit ratings from HR ratings in line with the reaffirmation granted by [indiscernible] ratings in May. Regarding results, we are recording one of the best quarters ever in terms of subscriber growth. Our confirmation that the slight deceleration observed in the second quarter is behind us and that we are aiming at a consistent delivery of positive operating results. From a financial perspective, our revenues for the quarter increased by double digits, continuing the strong top line performance seen in recent quarters. EBITDA growth was more [ on direct ] due to the seasonal nature of our business. We for the third or fourth quarters typically see lower margins compounded by temporary operations, cost associated with the expansion projects. These costs will be more than offset by the expected long-term benefits of our projects. Looking ahead, despite the challenging environment, I remain confident in our ability to complete our expansion plan in the coming quarters while preparing to consolidate the progress achieved over the past years. We will stay focused on delivering value to our shareholders by executing our long-term vision of providing world-class connectivity and entertainment services to millions of homes and businesses across Mexico. Now I will pass the floor to Raymundo, who will discuss operational performance in greater detail. Raymundo, please?

Thanks, Enrique. Good morning, everyone. With steady progress in our expansion strategy and solid performance on our legacy territories, as Enrique mentioned before, we maintain subscriber growth, a steady construction and homes passed build as well as revenue growth and conservative CapEx investments. The results of this quarter validate the goal of our organization, duplicate the size of the company, as stated in 2021 when we announced the expansion projects. Moving to results, starting with network development. Our infrastructure now covers more than 100,000 kilometers, marking an 11% year-over-year increase and supporting our nearly 17 million homes passed. During the quarter, an additional 1,100 kilometers were upgraded to FTTH for a total of 38,800 kilometers, advancing our commitment to delivering top-tier connectivity to homes and businesses alike. The Internet segment grew 13% year-over-year, adding 581,000 subscribers, including 182,000 this quarter, surpassing the 5 million subscriber mark and achieving a growth above our quarterly threshold, thus contributing significantly to the expansion of unique subscribers. Individual segment, traditional pay TV subscriber reached a total of 3.9 million, recording a slight decrease in reflecting market trends favoring digital platforms, which at quarter end rose to 887,000 users a 26% increase year-over-year. This trend has been observed in international markets. However, we maintain our efforts to mitigate these impacts evidenced by the sequential reduction in the churn rate for video to 2.4%, below the one recorded in the previous quarter. Likewise, our XView and XView Plus platform reached 3.3 million subscribers, with growth in both subscriber and set-top boxes. Thus, as of quarter end, 85% of our video subscriber base now receives an interactive service with the state-of-the-art capabilities. Telephony also show a strong growth with an 18% year-over-year increase, adding 686,000 net subscribers of which 227,000 were added this quarter. Meanwhile, our MVNO service grew 23.7% annually with 98,000 net additions including 44,000 this quarter, the highest quarterly growth in the last 2 years. Our unique subscriber base remains robust, exceeding $5.3 million this quarter, reflecting a 12% year-over-year increase. In the third quarter alone, we added more than 180,000 subscribers the highest figure since the expansion project was announced. Our total RGUs will reach 13.6 million this quarter, reflecting a 10% annual increase driven by the growth of the Mass Segment. RGUs per unique subscriber, however, stood at 2.54 slightly declining year-over-year as a result of a service mix, including more double play bundles. Regarding churn rates, we saw a decrease when compared to the previous quarter as expected due to the positive trend observed after a complex start at the second quarter of this year. Year-over-year, broadband recorded a slight decrease while video telephony rose marginal. In this context, in the middle of a competitive environment, ARPU per unit subscriber was MXN 418.9, showing a slight increase annually and remain almost flat sequentially, reflecting the promotional rates registered in the period and higher participation of double play bundles. Turning to the Corporate segment. We recorded a 7% year-over-year growth with ho1a standing out by growing 37% due to a favorable performance in the corporate and enterprise segments. MetroCarrier also achieved a 6% annual growth while MCM registered a slight 5% decline. However, it showed a sequential improvement and is expected to continue its upward trend. Finally, PCTV remained stable with a slight growth. To conclude, this quarter reflects our commitment to strategic growth and orderly improve our technology [ vehicle ] infrastructure, a plan that we will maintain through the end of 2024 as we aim towards the consolidation of our expansion project by 2025, 2026. The achievements in network expansion and subscriber growth show a well-executed plan that will support a sustainable growth path for the company. Thank you all for your attention. I will now hand over the call to Luis, who will provide a detailed analysis of our financial performance.

Thank you, Raymundo. Good morning, and good morning, everyone. Starting with consolidated revenues in the third quarter, we achieved a record of MXN 8.2 billion, an increase of 10% on an annual basis. This growth was primarily driven by double-digit expansion in the Mass Segment due to solid price and overall subscriber numbers, coupled with an Enterprise segment that continues its growth path. In the Corporate segment, revenues grew 7% year-over-year. By service, ho1a led with a significant 37% increase. Metrocarrier reached an annual growth of 6%. MCM, although significantly down -- slightly down year-over-year, recorded a sequential increase of 8%, while PCTV remained flat. Currently, the Mass Segment contributes 83% to our consolidated revenue, while the Corporate segment represents 17%. Cost of services in the third quarter amounted to MXN 2.3 billion, an increase of 7%, lower than consolidated revenue growth. SG&A expenses rose to MXN 2.3 billion by up 15%, mainly attributed to the larger scale of our operations, given our ongoing expansion, mainly labor as a result of a larger employee base and higher wages. EBITDA totaled nearly MXN 3.6 billion, an 8% growth compared to the same period last year, with an EBITDA margin of 43.6% for the period. EBITDA for cable operations reached MXN 3.4 billion, up 9% year-over-year with a margin of 45.2%. It is worth to mention that margins for cable operations in organic territories remained strong at 49% for the quarter. This was blended with a higher ho1a revenue share with 8% EBITDA margin overall impacting this figure. Net income, however, decreased to MXN 500 million this quarter. This decrease was primarily due to higher depreciation from recent axis additions from our expansion strategy. Increased interest expenses and foreign exchange losses from a higher exchange rate. Turning to the balance sheet. Net debt remained stable at MXN 22 billion, lower than that recorded in the previous quarter and higher than the same period of last year as a result of the sustainability level local notes issued early this year. CapEx for the quarter totaled MXN 2.7 billion, accounting for 33.5% of revenue, a favorable comparison to last year's 51% ratio. We remain committed to decrease CapEx ratio in the coming quarters. Our net debt-to-EBITDA ratio stood at 1.54x at quarter end, a light sequential improvement from the 1.57 in Q2 '24. Our interest coverage ratio for the quarter was 5.5x as of quarter end compared to 5.9x in the same period last year, reinforcing our capabilities to meet our financial obligations. In this context, the management is aware that a goal in terms of leverage for the coming period needs to be set aligned to our financial objectives and risk management strategies by managing debt ratio at healthy levels with not only improve financial stability, but also increase margins. Finally, I would like to state that our disciplined financial management and strategic investments have positioned us well in a dynamic and competitive market. As we have carefully balanced growth initiatives with cost control measures. All in all, these efforts will lay a solid foundation for Megacable's sustainable growth and financial resilience through the many years to come. Thank you for your attention. I will now turn the call back for the Q&A session.

[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Marcelo Santos from JPMorgan.

I have two. The first question is regarding gross add. When we worked back that number from your net adds and churn, it looks like they increased significantly this quarter and much higher than the previous 5, 6 quarters. I just wanted to know, is this a new pace that you're going to do? Like what led you to accelerate the gross debt? And if this was the reason why you had some margin weakness. So that's the first question. The second question is if you could just comment on the competitive environment on broadband. How this is going? Why churn is still a bit higher than the first quarter? It declined a bit from the second, but is a bit higher. So I just wanted to get your view on this.

Sure, Marcelo. Thank you for the questions. Regarding the gross adds, well, we have some campaigns in the back-to-school. We also did some promotions on the expansion projects that were really successful. We believe that the -- which would keep our gross at levels pretty much around the $150,000 per quarter. That's what we've been telling the market on that part. We hope to have another quarter like this one, but we would like to keep that one on that proportion, at the level of $150,000 per [ route ]. That's what we are aiming right now. Regarding the -- that has an effect on the margins, yes, because of the high aspect of growth. But really, I would like to point what Luis said on his remarks. Our margin in organic growths remained at 49%. That's a really, really good market in the industry for the cable operations. It's offered a little bit because of the high contribution of all lower margin on that part and of course, because of the high number of [ growth sites ], but that's very normal to what we have. And I would like to point that the margin did not decrease on the organic territories. It was decreased on the cable operate, especially cable operations. Now regarding the churn, well, we will maintain a 2% churn level of a broadband subscribers, a pretty much quarter-over-quarter on that part. We believe that the level for a company that is so aggressive in terms of promotion and gross adds, that's a good level where we feel we will remain on that part. And it's not only because of competitors because the aggressiveness that we have. In every market that we have in the majority will continue to capture market share. That's why we grow 180,000, and we're very happy with the results that we have in the operational part and also in the financial segment. So I believe it's a good report what we are presenting. But thank you, Marcelo. I don't know if I answered your questions.

The next question comes from Vitor Tomita from Goldman Sachs.

We have two on our side. The first one is if you -- looking at ARPU, if you see room for ARPU to return to a growth trend as expansion eventually decelerates and even more subscribers come out of promotional periods? Or if you believe that the subscriber mix migrating to double play might be a bigger structural factor here? Just trying to balance that out now that probably a larger number of customers are already out of the promotional periods. The second question I would have on my side is, if you could give us a bit more color on the margin side in cable. As you mentioned, there was some effect from the gross adds. But if you could give us a bit more color on how much of the margin decline was driven by inflation of existing costs, how much was driven by customer acquisition costs? Putting it in another way, if you increased commercial efforts or commercial personnel in the quarter to a larger extent, just trying to understand a bit more the dynamics of your investment in acquiring new customers here?

Sure, Vitor. This is Raymundo, again, and I will let Luis help me on the second part of the question or the second question. The ARPU is affected by the mix of double to triple play subscriber. That means the [ client ] of the video part is affected, also is benefit because of the increase of rates that we have normally during the year or the end of the promotional campaigns that we do have. It is affected by the number of subscribers that are in promotional. So it's a blend of everything. We maintain that our ARPU should slightly increase in the future -- showed a slight increase in the near future and should get to better levels in the future. It's a matter of timing. If we continue to be a company of high growth, it will be pressure on our where ARPUs is standing. This should be [indiscernible]. That's our strategy here in the management, and that means that the ARPU should slightly increase in the near future, slightly, I would like to say because of everything I'm telling you on that part. And regarding the margin, I will pass to Luis, but I would like to point our message for the margins is that margin of organic territories in the cable segment did not decrease. Remains at 49%. It was affected this quarter because of the remarkable results of ho1a with a 37% increase year-over-year with the lower margin that affect non-cable operations, but all the organic territories as well. In the expansion of territories, we continue to increase our margins. But as more users are in the organic lower margin, it does affect also in the pressure. So if you look as a next rate of the company, company is very happy that we maintain on cable organic operation, our 49% margin and is affected during this quarter because of ho1a on the high growth of expansion. Luis, sorry, I don't know if I left you something to say.

No, just to point -- Raymundo, thanks for that. But basically, yes ARPU due to the promotions that we have mainly on the expansion territories where we are having our highest growth in subscribers. Yes, that's where it's going, the efforts. But that's part of a normal expansion project. You invest a lot in promotions, you invest a lot in advertising, you invest a lot on new people that was not before there. So yes, there's some inflation going that's an impact but that's more on the expansion territories. That's Raymundo stated, basically on cable operations for the organic territories. We remain at 49%. Yes, there are quarters where we had, in the past, 50% margins, but that's a cyclic result. Not every quarter we had a 50%, but still 49% is pretty good.

That was clear. Just one clarification. You mentioned that in the organic territories, the margins are not declining and that in the expansion territories, the margins are increasing. So if overall cable margins are not increasing, is it more of a mix factor of some expansion territories that have lower margins being responsible -- being growing the revenues and dropping the overall margin?

And the efforts on advertising and campaigns, but, normal. It is, Vitor, a whole mix of what you're saying. It is very clear if you have the whole x-ray picture of the company. As more participation of corporate segment, with a lower margin, which is the ho1a results of this quarter that affect margin that we are presenting even in organic territories, but if we look only at cable, cable remain at 49 inorganic. But as we continue to grow more in expansion with a lower margin because of all the promotional campaigns, of course, it puts pressure in the old legacy territories. If you look at that and you put the numbers, it is very, very clear when you look at in paper.

Okay. The next question comes from Carlos de Legarreta from Itau.

So the first one is on pricing. So I understand you recently undertook a price increase, which, if I'm not mistaken, the second during the year. That said, I know you're doing a more for more strategy, let's say, higher prices, but also increasing the speeds of the broadband service. So my question is how are customers reacting to this, let's say, new dynamic? Because I think typically or historically, the cable industry in Mexico just increased cable prices without really increasing the speed significantly? So that's my first question. And on the second one, maybe a more long-term question, definitely not asking for guidance in the medium term or short term, just thinking about the composition of revenues. Obviously, video faces a secular decline and as broadband takes on a more important or a more predominant role in revenues, do you think that this is an opportunity for EBITDA margin to expand going forward given the lower margin nature of the video service?

Thank you for the question, Carlos. We did have an increase in price. The way you can look at this company, there are several ways that we increase our revenues coming from the existing subscribers on that part. So we can keep with inflation on costs and SG&A. Normally, we have an increase, a general increase that this year was taken -- did take place in March. The other way that we have during the year is to increase stakes, provide much more product to the subscribers, so we can capture more revenue. Some of them get that package. Some of them don't. We are very, very careful that this does not affect or create a [indiscernible] on the subscriber. The subscriber in any case, participates in the process of being migrated. And also the product definition that we do is aimed to have a good success of that migration. What I want to say, right now, we are aiming to 100 megabits. That's what we're providing, not only 60 or 80, we're going to 100 megabits. We have 73% of our network is fiber. The rest is HFC, but the rest is being partitioned on the node side to 250 homes passed to 500, not in the majority. I can tell you even almost the whole amount of the network that is in HFC does not so fast 500 homes passed in the majority of the events. So we can increase speeds on that part. And we are very happy, that's all. So with competition coming from any other company that tries protect the market in terms of speed. It's very competitive and the subscribers need that increase of speed. So they are willing to pay that additional amount that we have. That's our strategy on not of a general price increase that we have. We also, on our 73% of the territories, we increased also to symmetric speeds. So we have the capacity technologically to do that. So in this case, Telmex has announced also a symmetric speeds. Well, we have symmetric speeds also in our markets, so we can face competition and provide a better service for our subscribers on a competitive edge as to those that cannot do that kind of symmetric speed from the subscriber, okay? In terms of composition of revenue on that part, we believe our Broadband will bring higher margins in the future that will be compensated to the increase of costs mostly coming from labor and cost of broadband providing access to Internet dollars will be compensated by those margins that we are receiving from a better blend compared to video of that part. But keeping the 49% of the organic market is a really, really good margin that we feel we are in the top of the industry on that part. Our goal, and that's something that will pass according to continue to have a much more larger subscriber base with no promotional rates in the expansion territories, we will continue to increase margin coming from expansion territories on that part. And at the end, I go back again to what we say. We will depend on the participation of corporate segment, if corporate segment continues to increase with the lower margin, while the whole overall margin of the company is on a logical way affected by that, but not our operation segment.

But Carlos, your analysis base isolated on video that will and somehow the margins just isolated that specific point is accurate.

Okay. The next question comes from Hector Ugarte from Compass Group.

Just wanted to discuss real quick about free cash flow generation. I think this quarter, it was very strong. And obviously, it comes a lot from payables, right, the improvement in payable turnover. So just wanted to check if this is something that is like sustainable and we can continue to see this level of free cash flow generation going forward or even some improvement?

Hector, yes, it is sustainable. As I said before, we have a second quarter affected by decrease of rates, like Carlos asked me in the other question, that was the increase of the year seasonality that we have. Now we have a good back-to-school campaign that has the seasonality, but we believe we have the right infrastructure in terms of commercial people and channels to continue to provide sustainable growth at the levels that we feel comfortable around 150,000 subscribers per quarter. Maybe we'll do more, yes but right now, we feel comfortable with [indiscernible] on that part on that.

So I understand your question Hector goes to the payables and the cash flow generated by that. Yes, as we stated quarters ago, we established negotiations with our strategic partners and technology to have longer-term longer periods. And that we are negotiating with them to continue with that policy. So far, we don't see a change in the near future.

Okay. The next question comes from the line from [indiscernible] from HSBC.

I think I have a couple of them. The first one is the ARPU that you have in your legacy territories versus the new territories? What's the ARPU differential that you have there? And then the subscriber net adds that you had of 182,000. Can you divide it between the legacy territories that you had and the new territories that you have?

Well, the majority of the subscribers, of course, came from the expansion territory accounting for about 80% of the subscribers came from the expansion to retail.

Okay. And regarding the ARPU differential between what you have in the legacy versus the new territories?

Can you rephrase the question, please?

Okay. So what is the ARPU that you have -- average ARPU that you have in the legacy territories? And what is the ARPU that you have in the new territories? Trying to understand where the ARPU could head going forward?

Yes, the ARPU on organic territories, it's very close to what you see in our report. It's a little bit higher than the one that we have in our report. And of course, the one that we have on the expansion territories is a blend from new and old subscribers, which are still in the promotional period. So it is below 400, but very close to 400, and the expansion territories is above the 420 that you see in the report. And it changes finally according to the number of gross adds that we have in the expansion territory and the contribution they have to the whole overall subscribers in those territories. So if we grow too much ARPU in expansion does not increase. It does not compensate the old subscriber with the new ones. If we have a less growth, we can have a higher growth. In the long term, of course, we're looking at one single ARPU once we don't have that much growth coming from expansion territory. So we would like to maintain that ARPU would slightly increase in the periods to come as a blend of everything we say without going into a specific promotion to that part.

Okay. The next question comes from Andres Coello from Scotiabank.

Just a confirmation, you are guiding CapEx for this year at between 32% to 34% of revenues. So if I understand correctly, there should be a little bit higher CapEx in the fourth quarter, and I think that is seasonal. Just confirming that you're expecting a little bit higher CapEx in Q4? And also, if you have any comments on 2025 CapEx, if we can expect CapEx to sales to go below 30% of sales next year, if you can give us any update there?

Well, as we mentioned, we are going to be closer to the 32% and the 34% on that range that we established for the 2024 year. So closer to 32%. And for 2025, we -- well, the number by itself, it will go very close to 30%, but below. That's our expectation.

The answer, Andres, is yes.

Okay. So close -- below 30%, but close to 30%. Okay. Understood.

Close to 30%, but below.

But we expect revenues to grow in the CapEx to be in absolute numbers steady, pretty much.

Okay. So CapEx is steady, but higher revenues. Understood. And second question, as you know, there was a constitutional reform in Mexico last week where the government is now basically entitled or allow it to provide retail services in the wireless industry, perhaps also the wireline industry at some point, I'm just wondering what impact that could have on Megacable's wireless business. If you think that if the government continues building wireless infrastructure throughout the country, that is good for you? Or put it differently, if you are seeing better quality in the ALTAN network and now that the government took over the project?

Well, we don't like the statement that for the reform of the government did. We think that the government is not -- should not be a service provider. Corporate money should be where it makes it most good. And I think that, it's okay, if they build infrastructure in very isolated places. We are not worried about competition from the government because government is not a very good competitor. But they will lose a lot of money if they try to do what they intend to do. That's our perspective. They should concentrate in what they need to do now, security and the violence, rule of law, education, I think part of the education is the broadband or the Internet service. But as you can see in these countries like in U.S. what the government does is they subsidized families to buy a broadband service or to pay for a broadband service. They have a lot -- a big opportunity to subsidize here in Mexico to subsidize families to get a broadband service, even in important areas like in Mexico City or Guadalajara or Culiacan or Hermosillo or whatever. There's a lot of people that cannot pay or they don't have the enough income to pay a decent broadband service. We're not talking about here a wireless cell phone service to get a fiber connection. And I think that it's not a good policy what the government is trying to do. That's what we think. And I think also that is what the industry, the telecom whole industry thinks about it.

Regarding the market that they are into like you expose that is ALTAN and is like wireless growth of broadband in that part, ALTAN has an obligation in that sense to provide broadband service wireless to 92.3% of the population of this country, not the 100%, but 92.3%. It's far away from that goal. So we believe the government should get the better technology to provide service to everybody broadband access in this country. That means a blend of satellite, wireless and fixed. So I believe the effort of the government to shift the [indiscernible] will be to increase those broadband towers to some areas so they can reach that 92.3%. And that's a social service that does not -- is not anything against our company that part. In terms of the mobile service that we provide, yes, we saw a much more better CapEx invested by ALTAN that benefits our MVNO services that we only provide to existing subscriber of Megacable. We just provide postpaid in our existing territories not only with ALTAN, but also with AT&T. So we have two companies that provides our MVNO. So at the end, whatever the government wants to do in wireless in rural and suburban areas, that's fine if they can get the best technology at the best cost in terms of providing fixed broadband to everybody in Mexico, just the industry itself we invest among everybody over $4 billion a year just to provide. And it takes 25 to 30 years or 40 years to build this industry. They are not going to be focused. There is no way they can go into that. And the focus is to provide broadband, free broadband to those people that can afford. As a final remark, in that case, Mega is really well positioned to continue to increase penetration because we have the lowest ARPU in the industry. We are a much more higher penetrated company because of the high quality of our product, not sacrificing that, but the high penetration rates that we have. So that's our position regarding the wireless broadband and broadband that the government, like Enrique said.

Okay. The next question comes from Alex Azar from [ GBM ].

My question is simple. You guys are growing EBITDA high single digits. Cash flows or free cash flow is starting to stabilize, but the shares continue to be traded at 4x EBIT to EBITDA, which seems a little bit crazy. In terms of capital allocation, are you guys analyzing perhaps at this level, switch in part of the dividend payment to buy back shares. That would be my question.

Well, we have to sharpen our pencil and see what is going to happen in the near future. For sure, free cash flow will increase, that's no doubt about it. We have not discussed with the board, the destiny of that cash, but it could be any of the options you're talking about, maybe by shares buyback, increase the dividend, I wouldn't know yet. I mean, the market here has still to accommodate. It's four players is too many players. We don't know what is going to happen with the consolidation of the market, but we are alert to whatever will show in the future. But currently, what we foresee is either share buyback or increase in the dividend.

And that one, Alex, I mean, everything will come to the right time. We need to consolidate the expansion project right now. We took debt. We're beginning to do free cash flow on that position. We are growing subscribers. Let's not jump into conclusions in this conference. We have done our analysis and the best thing for shareholders and the company right now is to continue to improve our financial position to execute the expansion plan. And then, as Enrique is saying, we'll see 2025, what's better for everybody but not today.

Okay. And if I may, one more, now that you put the consolidation in the table. Operationally speaking, and in terms of infrastructure, excluding AMX, which is the preponderant, should investors think that a consolidation scenario is viable between any of the rest of the players or you don't think there's another one like AMX that should -- I don't want to say a great asset, but operationally or in terms of infrastructure does not make any sense?

Well, as you say -- as Enrique said, there are four players in Mexico, which are too many. That one, we all agree that there are too many in the pot. We also agree that AMX, it's the big one on the market in terms of the more viable presence that they have and then the fixed is part of that. They just invest 85% of their network is fiber. They are well positioned on that part, and I don't think that's one of the consolidated members of the industry. So there are three. You can look into the advantages or disadvantages in all of them. There are complements in each networks on that part. Two of the players has a huge amount of fiber, the other one doesn't. So it has to be something in between, but is not for the management of Megacable at this point to tell you, what we can do tell you is that we agree that it should be a 3-player market on that part. And consolidation is still possible in the future to come.

Okay. We have some questions next from [indiscernible]. What penetration rates are you seeing in your expansion territories after 12 months?

Sure. After 12 months, our plan is to get pretty much to 1/4 of the market. After maturing the years of being on those. So in some of the markets, we have 61 cities that we build and we increased. So all of them have different execution on parts. But I can tell you that we're very pleased that some markets as above 20%. The majority of those markets, if you take the average penetration that we have in expansion rate is 13%. So with the number of compass we have, you can say that one [ 36% ] and the other one is 13% average and the other one is 18% and some markets above 20%. So you can take your conclusions on that part.

Okay. Next, your noncable EBITDA hasn't grown in a number of years. How can that segment be returned to growth in the future?

Well, you have it right. It's a very good question. If you take a deep look into the corporate segment, we have [indiscernible] business that remain steady or below government in the last one or two years was tough to get into the projects. They were much more into other strategic projects for them, which I don't believe they are so strategic, but that's where they would put -- and now we believe that for the years to come, which we'll see government to continue to invest in cybersecurity, infrastructure and better connectivity on that part. And we are also doing some changes internally in our corporate structure, so we can have a better go-to-market because we agree with you that even through carrier government are affecting us, we need the corporate and enterprise segment to perform better so we can continue to increase. The good part of that is that we do not depend only on government and big contracts. So we are increasing in some of the segments and we have remained steady or decreasing other ones, and we are taking the necessary measure including investing in infrastructure in the long haul, so we can remain a good carrier of carriers company for the hyperscalers.

Okay. The next one, are the recent increase in employees and operating expenses temporarily during expansion or needed permanency?

Okay. To continue to remain the growth of the gross adds that we have will remain those employees. But as we continue to decrease the GPON evolution project, we will finishing the migration of subscribers from HFC to GPON that has some of that affect CapEx and some of that affect OpEx. But at the end, it does increase the efforts. It put pressure. So there are some projects that will not continue to be in the future and will decrease number of subscribers and at the end, the level of gross adds and growth that we have is the one that we feel comfortable. So we will always have as long as we grow pressure on employees, but will not continue to be as high as we have in the last case.

Okay. And our final question, with the CapEx and the leverage rate declining, what are the factors you are looking to determine if or when to address your capital return strategy?

Well, as I said before, this is the right moment to talk about how the expansion project to duplicate the size of the company while at the same time, evolving all the network to be competitive and strong into the future. That's where we are right now. That's the best for capital return that we have, and we will look into 2025 once we mature this segment to see what's next. As Enrique said, whether there is consolidation, whether there is shares buyback, whether there is more dividend, we'll see that in 2025. Right now, all our financial key indicators are, well, are good. We clarify that the margin decreases slightly because of corporate, not because of the organic segment, and that's the message we would like to send to all of you. So thank you very much.

There's a saying that says that, we got to cast the hand before we decide how to put it.

Okay. With no more questions. The Q&A session is concluded. I pass the call over to Mr. Enrique Yamuni for final remarks.

Thank you, Esau. As always it is a pleasure to discuss our results with you. Please contact our Investment Relations department if you have any questions or concerns regarding the company. Have a wonderful day and a great weekend. And watch the World Series. There's going to be a big recognition to Fernando Valenzuela tonight. Watch the game and have fun.

In Megacable.

In Megacable, yes. If you have Megacable it's going to be in the 4k. Thank you.