Metro Performance Glass Limited (MPG.NZ) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

[Foreign Language] Welcome. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Shawn Beck, the Chair of the Board of Metro Performance Glass Limited. And on behalf of the Board, Simon, our Managing Director and all of our team, we'd just like to welcome you to our 2025 Annual Shareholder Meeting. Okay. Let's see if I can still push this one button. Before we get started, just some quick housekeeping. Through 3 fire exits and bathrooms through that door to the right and past the lifts. If any of the MUFG staff issue any instructions, please follow them. And if you have any questions, please ask them. And they will also help us exit down the stairs, and we will assemble across the road. So follow the MUFG people in any emergencies. For those joining online, also welcome. Today's meeting is being held via the MUFG Corporate Markets. All the company documents associated with the ASM are online, and they're available. You can -- so you can read those and shareholders and proxies. You can also ask questions and submit through the MUFG platform. I think there's a help line or something on the actual platform if you have any problem. So follow that. So we will have questions. They will be at the end of the presentations. So if you could just hold firing on questions. You can submit any questions beforehand from now on. But like I said, I won't address them until the relevant time in the meeting. We may moderate questions. We may amalgamate questions if they're similar. We will try to get through all questions as we did at the special shareholder meeting, but we might be a little bit more time constrained. If we can't answer your question, we will definitely answer it via e-mail as soon as we can after the meeting. So all questions will be answered. When asking questions, if I could just ask one at a time. I'm getting a bit old now, and I sometimes can't remember 2 or 3 or 4 questions at a time. So just -- if you could just ask one question at a time. And if you could just limit your questions to 1 or 2, that would be really helpful. Are there any media present? Which is fine. If any media is present or online, please feel free to ask questions as well. Just note that we may get to them after the shareholder questions so that we have time. So the agenda of the meeting today will be formalities, logistics, Managing Director address. Simon will be doing most of the talking today rather than me, so you get to listen to him this time instead of me the whole time like last month, which is going to be more interesting, I promise. And then we'll get into the formal business and then general business and shareholder questions. Proxies as at the close of proxy voting on Saturday, 27 million shares have been voted by proxy. As Chair, I intend to -- I have actually voted all discretionary proxies we've received in favor of the resolutions as set out in the notice of meeting. So we met 4 weeks ago, obviously, so the subject matter of this is more the general business of the annual meeting as opposed to the Special Shareholders' Meeting that we had a month ago. Simon will -- our Managing Director, Simon will be speaking to you. And I'd like to just introduce the directors. I'm going to ask Simon -- sorry, Julia and Stephen will talk at the time of the resolutions, and they'll give a brief introduction at the time of the resolutions for their reelection. And Pramod, I'd like to just -- if it's okay, it's a bit of a reset. We've got the capital base structured now. We're now moving forward on kind of a different mission, which is to make the company perform basically. So I just thought it would be good for each of the directors to just give a quick intro. So firstly, I'll introduce Pramod Khatri, Independent Director. And if you want to just introduce yourself, Pramod, very quickly, then...

Thank you. I've been on the Board now for 2 years. And in those 2 years, I think we've achieved a lot with the capital raise, obviously, puts the company in a very good footing to go to the next level. So all that -- all those issues that we had in terms of capital has now been resolved. We're now looking to -- as Shawn said, looking at operational performance and delivering on the promises that we have made in terms of securing a good return for our shareholders. So the focus from now on would be very much on how do we get to that next phase in the development of the company. So I think it's going to be challenging but exciting times ahead. So I just want to thank all of you for giving your support to us. I think it's been a difficult period, but we are over the hump and now look to the future. So thank you very much for that.

Thank you, Pramod. And next to Pramod is Julia Mayne, Independent Director; Simon Bennett, our Managing Director; Sarah Hipkiss, our CFO; and Stephen Robertson, our Non-Independent Director, who's just joined the Board. I'd also like to just introduce Toby Sharpe and Sarah Brian from Bell Gully; Jonathan Kirby from our auditors; Denise London, who works with Computershare and do fantastic company secretary work for us. And I think Andrew Parsonage from Jarden may be here, but if he's not, that's okay. He's earned his key. So I'll now hand over to Simon for his address. And he will take you through some of the business [indiscernible]

Indeed, nice to be here. Thanks for your attendance for those of you in the room. We often don't see that many in the room, and we're going to go online only, but pleased that we put some biscuits on, and we're here in person. And nice to see you here and the ones that are sitting behind the camera there. Sort of feels a bit like Groundhog Day really. It was only a month ago, we stood here. And look, it was a difficult meeting in many ways, but we were super happy that 95% of you supported the resolutions for the recapitalization. And look, we did appreciate not only the quantity, but the quality of the questions we received at the meeting. As is now documented and reported with your support, we're able to launch the raise later last month, and this closed on September 12 and was completed on September 19. The structure of the raise allowed for not only rights take-ups for shareholders but also oversubscriptions. And of course, as we know, underwriters stood by to mop up any shares not taken in rights or oversubscriptions. We are certainly grateful for the support of the underwriters. They enabled the raise to proceed. But given we received more applications for oversubscriptions and available shares, even oversubscriptions were scaled and hence, underwriters were required. And in fact, allocated no shares in the raise. And I guess for you, shareholders sitting in the room and online, the success of the raise very much depends on your situation and where you participated and what your circumstances were. But for the company, we can reflect only that a raise to the maximum amount was exactly what we were seeking and hence, was a success. With the combination of the banking incentive that's been talked about and then the funds we raised for issuing the shares, literally on the day of 19th of September, we reduced debt by $34 million. So very, very significant for the business. Certainly, don't overlook and do acknowledge that shareholders have had a pretty rocky road with Metro over many years. And now this has been highlighted to me by phone, e-mail, in-person meetings over and over again. I can really just reiterate again for those of you that participated, thank you. For those of you that didn't, we thank you for your vote too -- to help us -- to deal with this capital shortage and the recapitalization. Look, as a business, I think all of us directors, management in the room, the business in general, we're super committed to repaying your faith in us with a continued turnaround and progress to some better performance. On a personal level, I'm really grateful for your support, which allows us now as a management team to focus on our on-field performance. And to be honest, if I look back, we've been worrying whether the game will be played at all in the past. As a management team, we've worked hard to shelter our people from the capital issues, which were really widely reported, commented on within the industry. Our competitors seized upon it, but it wasn't always possible. And a great deal of energy was spent and time wasted really with our people and our customers, assuring them that the capital raise was in hand and that we are focused on improving the business. I have to say our business improvement over the last year or so has been exceptional in New Zealand, not from a financial perspective, but the performance can be seen in the improvement in quality, specifically the reduction in reworks required by customers. It's also evident in our DIFOT with greater-than-90% delivery on time being our goal, which has consistently now being achieved. In Australia, we also delivered our customers a strong performance, but this was off a very strong base. This improvement in performance made our customers take note and certainly helped our customer retention in a market with too much capacity as we finally and thankfully hit the bottom of the construction cycle. The majority of our customers across both sides of the Tasman are window fabricators. Their trade is generally in new builds, residential homes, townhouses and apartments. We also supply commercial fabricators and commercial builders. Our customers are under such price pressure themselves. They are constantly being tested on price by the ultimate customer, be it the developer or homeowner. Little work is carried out without some significant price comparison and scrutiny. We walk a fine line, making sure our customers win enough work to stay viable but ensure that we have suitable operating margin ourselves. If there was an easy way to navigate this path, we have not found it. But we have certainly ensured that the service and quality we provide are a strong, differentiating factor for our customers. Despite downward pressure on pricing with our cost-out and efficiency gains, we have managed to hold margins in New Zealand, which is no mean feat. I sort of feel these -- just what I've mentioned around our customer base and the next little piece around fabricators is kind of for some of you might sound like 101 building and window fabrication, but I noticed at the last meeting, a lot of people didn't -- were asking really quite micro questions on the market. And I sort of got the sense that everybody doesn't understand that well -- where we play. In New Zealand, the larger die holders continue to dominate the aluminum joinery market, APL and Altus between them hold around 70% market share. Their brands include Rylock, Fisher, Nebulite, Vistalite and others. The fabricators of these brands are generally licensees and represent some 300 small to medium businesses in New Zealand. Our share is largest in the Altus network, and our share of wallet has been stable across the year. In the APL network, where the die holder also runs a large glass processor, our share is smaller, but again, has been steady. Our installation services are a differentiating factor with only 2 of the glass processes offering this service. With volumes down, we've kept this core offer but utilize contractors as well as FTEs to allow us to flex our cost to changing volumes. We have more work to do here. Our regional branches' core function is to service the installation requirement and to support local customers. We see this too as a core part of our offering but feel that we have more work to do in the regions also. Whilst this service is enjoyed and utilized by our customers, we're not confident that we're always getting paid enough for the service. This is a key area of focus for the next 6 months. On perhaps a more micro data point, I'm pleased to -- that we've finally managed to sublease our space in Wellington that previously housed our now closed Wellington plant. That's as of October 1, and I see that the documents have just come through my screen just now, but it reduced our overhead and allows us really to focus on running a fit-for-purpose regional branch. In terms of the markets in New Zealand, Lower North Island and in particular, Wellington are probably the weakest in the country. This is followed closely by the Far North and Bay of Plenty. While Auckland has been very challenged, we said some -- [indiscernible] say optimism, but some optimism and expects momentum building in the '26 calendar year. In Australia, the economic weakness is also very apparent of the states we operate, and Tasmania has probably shown most optimism, but of course, is our smallest market. We've enjoyed the benefit of the code changes in New South Wales, and our plant is performing very well as we have completed our plant upgrades and growing capacity. It must be a dry subject, New South Wales. It's Steve Hamer from New South Wales is here. So we've got some latent capacity in New South Wales, which we expect to fill later in the year. Victoria is our largest market in Australia, and it's been tough. We've started to see the increase in penetration of DGU as a result of the code changes, but it hasn't offset the weakness in the market. Like New South Wales, the plant is running well and our upgrades are also complete. Interesting in the market there, whilst we've seen some competitors fail, others for sale, there have been some new players also entering the market, hopeful for the uplift. As mentioned earlier, our quality and service has been strong for some time and is a differentiating factor for us. The strength of our people underpins this performance. The abandonment of Oceania, Crescent's float glass business caused us challenges earlier this calendar year and required us to stand up our imports and increase our inventory storage capacity and distribution capability. We're happy with the new normal importing direct as we do in New Zealand. We actually signaled this closure at the AGM last year, I realized when looking back at notes, but we didn't predict it quite as early as it occurred. Our procurement teams in New Zealand and Australia have been working closely, leveraging this joint buying power with good success. Our people have shown incredible resilience in the last 12 to 18 months, although you, our shareholders, would expect us to downsize on the back of lower volumes, the toll on the people is not to be celebrated. In New Zealand, our headcount is 587, 15% down on 24 months ago. In Australia, our headcount is now 253, following a more modest reduction. The leaders in the business have committed to our transformation with dedication and determination. Despite the difficult environment, we are finally able to appoint Sarah, CFO, who Shawn introduced. She was fantastic in the capital raise. And yes, I look forward to seeing what she can do when she gets her head in the bonnet and seeing the same energy, commitment, insight to drive improvement in the business. We appointed Nick Hardy-Jones to Country Manager in New Zealand on April 1. I thought there wasn't a very good date actually with hindsight when I read my notes, it's April Fool's Day. But look, it gave me great pleasure appointing Nick. He was a strong performer in the South Island, and he's brought his work great insights and business acumen to the biggest stage without missing a beat. He's been ably supported by Robyn Gibbard, our GM North Island. Throughout the last 15 months when we began the New Zealand turnaround plan, Steve Hamer, is hiding in the background, I mentioned before, our Australian CEO was both at my side and ahead of me at times. The group has benefited from a strategic insight and a steady and methodical manufacturing pedigree. I'm grateful for the team he has built, which culminated in him developing Jason McGrath to be ready to be promoted to the Australian Country Manager commencing next week. Steve with us today, and I would like to thank him for his efforts. I might do that over at lemonade as well later. But thankfully, he's not writing off into the sunset but continues in a part-time capacity as a strategic adviser to the business. Interestingly, with our capital base in place, we're already seeing candidates knocking on our door wanting to join the business, which is what now we believe is the A team in Australasian glass processing and installation. I see some of you with annual reports, hopefully, our people, but I apologize if you expected me to summarize the prior financial year as is customary in ASMs. But I feel that the year is long gone. The capital raise has dominated the last 6 months, and the focus is now on the future. Whilst it felt at times that we were at the beginning of the end, I'm now happy to declare that we are now only just at the end of the beginning. If you will indulge me one last thought, I just want to thank our people, our operators, glaziers, salespeople and leaders in the business. Thanks for the support and your resilience. We've had to be much more agile, lean and responsive to the pace of change required, yet at the same time, improve our performance. And now though, whilst we're not pausing, we should take a moment and we can calmly and steadily ease the throttles forward as we have the good ship Metro pointed in the right direction. I have been often told by customers how great Metro has been in the decades of its tenure and that they see greatness emerging again. And whilst we wish to show our customers market-leading performance, we now must ensure this translates to the benefits of our people and importantly, a return for you, our shareholders. Thank you very much for your support and attendance.

Thank you, Simon. And since you thank to all of our people, except for you all, thank you. It has been a very good 12 months. So we'll now move on to the matters requiring resolution, which are outlined in the notice of meeting. If any shareholders have questions, please submit these online now or hold on to the questions until the end of the meeting when we'll address all questions. All right. Some quick voting instructions. Bear with me for a second, but we need to get this right. Shareholders joining remotely will be able to cast their vote using their electronic voting card received when online -- when your online registration is validated. To vote, click the "get voting card" within the meeting platform, and you'll be asked to enter your shareholder or proxy number. Please then mark your voting card in any way you wish by voting for, against or abstain. Once you've made your selection, please commit -- sorry, please click submit vote on the bottom of the page. If you have any issues, look at the online portal guide or use the help line that's specified in the online portal. For our shareholders -- for shareholders in the room, MUFG Corporate Finance -- sorry, Corporate Markets will collect the voting cards at the conclusion of the formal business. Voting will remain open until 5 minutes after the conclusion of the meeting and results of the vote will be announced by the NZX. Each resolution set out in the notice of meeting is to be considered as an ordinary resolution, and as such, must be approved by a simple majority of the votes cast by shareholders entitled to vote. The outcome of the proxy votes will be displayed for your information on all the resolutions. Resolution 1, the auditor's remuneration. Resolution 1 proposes that the Board be authorized to fix the fees and expenses of PwC as auditor for the ensuing year. Please vote by selecting for, against or abstain for resolution on the voting card. [Voting]

I will now move to introduce the resolutions for director elections. Resolution 2 proposes that Julia Mayne be reelected as a director of the company. NZX Listing Rule 2.7.1 requires that the company's directors must not hold office without reelection past the third Annual Shareholder Meeting following their appointment or 3 years, which is ever is longer. Thankfully, we have the lawyers in the room to explain that if necessary. Julia Mayne was elected at the company's 2022 Annual Shareholder Meeting and will retire from office at this year's ASM. Being eligible, Julia offers herself for reelection. In order for a director to be independent, the Board must determine that he or she is not an executive of the company and has no disqualifying relationship. The Board has determined that Julia Mayne is an independent director. The Board highly recommends Julia to you as a director of Metro Performance Glass and unanimously supports her reelection. I will now invite Julia to briefly address the meeting.

Thank you, Shawn. Good afternoon, everyone. Let you know everyone, obviously, my name is Julia Mayne. I'm a Sydney-based Director of Metro Glass since September 2021 and was voted in September '22. With the recent capital raise being finalized, the business enters a new phase with improvement plans continuing, as Simon had talked about on revenue generation, operational improvement. I believe we're in a really good place now, though. As Pramod said, it will be a difficult journey, not an easy journey, but we've also got the people in place really to put us and get us into that right place. With my background in manufacturing and distribution of building products across both Australia and New Zealand, I believe I'm well positioned to support Metro Glass through this next phase. And I'm happy to put myself forward for election today. Thank you.

Thank you, Julia. I now put to the vote the ordinary resolution that Julia Mayne be elected as a director of the company. Please vote by selecting for, against or abstain for resolution on the voting card. [Voting]

We will now move to the election of Stephen Robertson. Resolution 3 proposes that Stephen Robertson be elected as a Director of the company. The Board has confirmed that Stephen is standing as a Non-independent Director. Stephen Robertson The Board recommends Stephen to you as a Director of Metro Performance Glass Limited and unanimously supports his election. I will now ask Stephen to briefly address the meeting.

Thank you, Shawn. Yes, I'm Stephen Robertson. I am the senior executive of the Amari Metals business, Amari Metals Australia. I've spent the last 40-odd years in industrial products, distribution businesses throughout New Zealand and Australia. I'm a Kiwi, originally from New Plymouth, where I started that journey. During that time, I've spent time working for various public companies, including the Crane Group and Fletcher Building, all in general industrial products, distribution businesses generally in metal products. So I think I, with that, have got some good experience. I'm encouraged by what I see in the direction of Metro -- the recent direction of Metro Glass, the improvements in the service quality and the general strategy of the business. So yes, I put myself forward as a Non-independent Director of Metro Glass. Thank you.

Thank you, Stephen. I now put to the vote the ordinary resolution that Stephen Robertson be elected as a director of the company. Please vote by selecting for, against or abstain for resolution on the voting card. [Voting]

Before I close off on the Board, it's -- I think one of the most important things companies can get right or wrong is who's on the Board and then how the Board behaves once they're on the Board and what the Board actually focuses on. I think we've highlighted in the past that we're doing things a bit differently than the past Board. We're acting faster with pace. We're not bearing ourselves in process. We're trying to get the right decisions made. We're trying to ask the right questions. We don't always agree. We get some good vigorous debate around the Board table or on phone calls when we're talking. But I've worked on -- I've been on thick to 20 different Boards. And I find this Board has a very good mix of skills and is very fit for purpose. And I'm very much looking forward to Stephen joining the Board and actually adding because I'm highly confident he's going to contribute mightily to our Board as well. Thanks for letting me go off script there and talk about the Board for a second. So agenda item 4, questions? So I'd like to offer all shareholders the opportunity to ask any questions. If you could just identify yourself by name and if you're a shareholder or a member of the media. And again, if you're a member of the media, if you could just hold on to your questions closer to the end, that would be great. You can continue to provide questions online and in person, and we'll also address questions that are already submitted. If we run short of time, as I said before, we will answer all questions via e-mail as soon as we can after the meeting. So I open the floor to questions. We'll start with shareholders in the room. Are there any questions?

[indiscernible] can you tell me...

Sorry, left instruction out, my bad. Wait for the mic and then...

Can you tell me whether APL is expanding their business or not or standing still?

[indiscernible] comment?

So do you mean the window part of it, the metal part or...

Yes, what's competitive for that? What's competitive with last year?

The glass that they produce.

And the whole frame, the whole thing?

Yes. I mean I think it's a pretty competitive market. I mean they have -- they're certainly trying to grow. But I think when I talked earlier around the framework, what's probably not well -- as well understood is that APL, I mentioned some brands, actually, none of them were theirs because I didn't want to -- anybody to subliminally remember it and then buy some windows of them one day. But let's say, one of their brands, they only have so many of each brand in each region. So it's kind of -- they can grow with their existing licensees or fabricators or they can try and put more new in the ground. And we think they've got pretty good coverage geographically. So I think they're trying as hard as they can to grow their business. They tend to be strong with the group homebuilders. So the brands that you might know like Stonewood Homes or the like. And they've probably been hit harder than most in the recession. And so I think there -- I think that they found the market pretty tough on the way down. Short answer, are they trying to grow? Yes, I'd say so. They're pretty grouchy that we sell glass into their network. They've been trying to stop us doing that for quite a while. And as I said in my address, we've held share there. And we have a differentiation from them in as much as they don't do any installation. So even the most loyal APL fabricators that buy glass of AGP, their glass business, still will buy glass of us because they can't get installed glass by their provider.

Any other questions from the floor? Just wait one second. Please.

[ Jim Fran ], shareholder. I'm making a profit is so important. And I know just asking about your cash flow. I know last year, it dropped a way down and you're still positive, but is it still positive at the moment, your cash flow?

Do you want to handle that one?

It was pretty good last month. Yes. Look, we think that positive cash flow currently, yes, and moving forward.

And the trend is going the right way. I think that's probably the most important thing is the actual trend line. The trend line is going in the right direction, not how it was before.

We are sitting on about -- Steve would tell us, but maybe $4 million or $5 million worth of extra glass in Australia because of that Oceania closure. Having to import, you carry stock rather than buying from a distributor. We're sort of over the hump there.

Any other questions from the floor?

[ Hilary Jean ], shareholder. I wish to inquire whether the franchisees, the #1 builder like G.J. Gardner, are they a customer of this company because they have franchise -- all franchises in North Island and also South Island. And I think they will be -- also I say they will never not pay the money very secure. Are they a customer of Metro Glass?

So G.J. have, obviously, as you say, franchisees. So they have some buying agreements and then individual window manufacturers will deal with us or other glass providers. So as -- we don't deal with G.J. as a company, but we would deal with different manufacturers around the country. And...

Do you know -- do they supply G.J. Gardner?

Do we...

I mean those manufacturers are different...

Yes. Yes. I mean they're big, obviously. So we get some glass in there. We haven't got any exclusive arrangement with them at all. It's -- I mean it's quite a -- it's not complicated maybe, but it's difficult to navigate to who the final customer is because sometimes I did a renovation, I go to my builder, he chose the glass. It happens to be Metro Glass. I'm happy about that. I just happened before my involvement here. Our friend here from Bell Gully had just done a renovation at a beach house, and he chose an APL fabricator and didn't ring us up, ask for discount. And -- but when he turned up there, there was stickers -- Metro stickers all through the window. So the -- look, it depends on the builder, the window fabricator, sometimes the specification, sometimes a national buying deal, sometimes G.J. Gardner themselves choose a particular spec of glass, might be from us, might be from a competitor. We had an instance in the South Island, where I don't know if I want to say this that loud. I say this, Nick. I won't give specifics, but we're dealing with a good customer of ours who is providing all of the windows in a development. New homes wasn't G.J. Gardner. And for some reason, the window manufacturer wasn't chosen for half a dozen houses because his lead time was too slow. And so they said, I'll buy it off somebody else, but it was actually specced as a Metro Glass, which no one else supplies. And so yes, the other window manufacturer couldn't buy the glass because they weren't a customer of ours. So actually, got more complicated than that, but I'm not going to carry on down that track. So yes, look, it's complicated. So the answer is yes, we look, we supply across all of the market of group homebuilders, but they're not necessarily an exclusive arrangements and they're not necessarily the ultimate customer.

Then what about those sales reps? Are they still going out to get business or...

Yes, they do. Yes, they do. They work hard. Look, our salespeople from what I've described, you can probably understand to get business, they're talking to the builders. They might be going to -- I went to -- I go and see the head offices, and we go and see the individual franchisees, and our salespeople will do that. The good thing is that I talked about our DIFOT. So if your customer gives you an order and you deliver 96% or 97% of the order, they just generally say, thank you, and we send the other piece the next day. If you deliver half of the glass and the builder rings up, going crazy down the phone, "where's my glass, where's my glass?" the salesperson does a lot of work. We call it chasing glass, and we've eliminated that. So our people are much more focused on selling, which is a really positive thing.

Then Simon, being such a case, I would like to recommend the business to -- Sir John Goulter's son because just for this month that is The New Zealand Herald, the 18th of September, they are -- what should I say, introducing Sir John's son. They are having a new -- building new houses, 2 projects, 2 company, et cetera. Then if interested, I'll give this paper to your staff hopefully after the AGM to get more business and let John support the economy, the spot market of New Zealand.

Thank you. Thank you very much. Yes. Thank you. I'll pick that up. But that is the sort of thing that we do. We are very active with developers and builders when we see new projects coming online. So I'll be doing more of that, wearing out a bit of shoe leather going to see customers rather than shareholders asking them for money. So it will be kind of nice.

Yes. Thank you, Simon.

Thank you.

Any other questions? Do we have any online questions at this point?

A very difficult technical question from Stephen. Just kidding. We got the difficult ones last time. We've got no questions from people online. I hope that the video link is working.

So excellent. That concludes our discussion on the items of business. In a minute, we will close the voting system. So please ensure that you've cast your vote on all resolutions. [Voting]

I'll pause quickly if there's anyone who has voting cards that they would like to get to MUFG. You'll get them later. Okay. All right. We'll hold the voting open formally until those cards are received by you. Okay. Excellent. Thank you all for casting your votes, and the full results of the voting will be announced to the market later this afternoon. So to wrap up, it sounds cliche, but I would like to thank everyone basically in this room. I'd like to thank my fellow Board members. I'd like to thank existing shareholders for their support, new shareholders for their support. And I'd certainly definitely like to thank our team and the people who actually run the business, manage the business, do the real stuff, starting with Simon and working down through his team.

We have got one question.

We have got one question. Okay. Let's answer it.

Should we ask it, please? It looks as though the holding die patents gives MPG competitors some advantages. In the U.K., plastic window framing seems quite durable. Has MPG considered obtaining patents for these plastic frames in New Zealand and Australia? So that's uPVC, so that would be used instead of aluminum. Look, I think there is a board paper from a long time ago where the business did look at some options there, but we're not looking to get in the window manufacturer business anytime soon. The comment that die patents, so that's the die holder, somebody that presses the aluminum to make the window has some advantages. Look, I think that we used to perhaps be more worried about that than we are now. But we are pretty happy with our capability, our service model, our delivery, and I think there's good demand for it. So I think that differentiates us, and we're happy with our spot.

Thanks. So we will close the questions off now. But I do encourage, if anyone has questions, by all means, shoot us an e-mail at any time, and we'll always endeavor to answer any questions that shareholders have. That's just -- yes, so feel free to ask questions at any time via e-mail. So again, thank you all for your attendance and your patience. And I would like to conclude this 2025 Annual Shareholder Meeting and invite you out in the other area for some light refreshments. Thank you, everyone.