Mineros S.A. (MINEROS) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, and welcome to our presentation of the financial results of Mineros S.A. for the Fourth Quarter of 2022. My name is Patricia Ospina, and I'm the Director of Investor Relations. The default language for this call is in Spanish. However, the option to hear it in English is available. To listen to this call in English [Audio Gap] before we start, this can contain information statements that for various reasons -- and that for various reasons, our actual results may differ from the expressed today. This is the reason why we review that you hear the cautionary language in our earnings report, and they are not specifically that we are referring to this presentation. And also, this presentation has nonconventional IFRS financial measures, such as the cash cost and the all-in sustaining cost per ounce of gold sold. The average realized price per ounce of gold sold, adjusted EBITDA and the net debt. For further information and details and reconciliations of -- you can refer to Section 10 of our management discussion where you can find it inside our -- under Mineros' profile. Today, we have Andres Restrepo Isaza, CEO of Mineros; and Alan Wancier, CFO. And also, we are joined by Anna Maria Rios, VP of Business Development; Ana Isabel Gaviria, VP of Legal & Sustainability; Santiago Cardona, VP of Colombia; Luis Fernando Villa, VP of [ Nicaragua]; and Luis Fernando Villia (sic) [ John Jairo Cuervo ] from Argentina. With this, I leave you with Andres Restrepo, CEO of Mineros.

Thank you, Patricia. Good morning, and thanks for joining us to talk about our year-end results. We are going to share with you that the fourth quarter of the year was strong with respect to operating results and that our annual production was above the upper limit of our production guidance for 2022. This higher production meant that we had reductions in both cash cost as AISC per ounce of gold sold when compared to the same period in 2021. Despite the good operating results, we were facing good radical within the business, globally speaking, as well as locally in all the regions where we operate. Adjusting this with the new realities generating a short-term basis and relevant impact of financial results, this is why despite the good operating results, the net profit for the quarter and for the year was affected by the impairment of Gualcamayo, well, which we will further discuss it shortly. The agenda for today's call includes highlights, financial performance, operational indicators, details per operation, and we are going to talk about challenges and perspectives of the company. Well, let's talk about the relevant facts in Gualcamayo. Every year, we need to do -- we carry out an analysis of the company's investments, updating projections of productions and cost, taking into account different variables. Also, we take into account the macroeconomic situation of the countries where we operate. And this has a proper discount rates. They have to be valued with the different assets that we have. Based on that analysis, we recorded an impairment of the asset in Gualcamayo property of USD 36.5 million. This expense had a negative impact on the net profit. However, this charge did not imply a cash outflow. We ended the year with a solid cash position, close to $50 million. This talks about moving forward. Let's look now at the price of gold. During the fourth quarter of 2022, the price of gold had an upward behavior. The closing price was $1,824 per ounce, standing 77% above the close of the previous quarter. The behavior is largely explained by the increase in intermediation rates due to high levels of inflation. I would say that this is around the world. In the graph on the slide, you can see the maximum and minimum prices of the quarter. With this, I will the floor to Alan Wancier, who is going to explain the financial performance in detail. Alan. Go ahead.

Thank you, Andres. Good morning to everyone. Let's start -- and let's talk about the P&L for the fourth quarter. I remind you that all the numbers and the figures are expressed in millions of dollars. We had a good fourth quarter with growth in gold production and higher gross profit and adjusted EBITDA. But as Andres just mentioned, the net profit was affected by the impairment of asset of the Gualcamayo Property in Argentina. Revenues for the quarter was $131 million, growing 7% when compared to the fourth quarter of 2021, explained by the 8% growth in ounces of gold sold thanks to greater operating efficiencies at the Nechi Alluvial Property in Colombia and the Hemco property in Nicaragua. The total cost decreased by 3%, reaching close to $93 million, largely explained by lower purchases of additional material and the devaluation of the local currencies. Thanks to the higher income and the reduction in costs, gross profit was close to $38 million, showing an increase of 44% when compared to the same quarter of the previous year. The adjusted EBITDA stood at $46 million, growing 30%. However, due to the impairment of assets at the Gualcamayo Property, as we have just explained, during this quarter, we had a -- net profit was minus $20 million. Now let's look briefly at the accumulated results. In 2022, the total revenue increased by 7%, reaching $529 million explained by the higher number of ounces of gold sold at the Nechi Alluvial property in Colombia, at the Hemco property in Nicaragua. Cost of sales increased by 44% due to an increase of $8 million in depreciation and amortization and $8 million related to the higher cost of some materials as well as work labor. With this, gross profit reached $141 million, growing by 13%. The adjusted EBITDA grew 14%, reaching $177 million aided by higher revenue and the fact that this indicator is not affected by the increase in depreciation and amortization as well. The net profit shows a reduction, reaching $4.5 million. This is explained by the impairment of assets and by the disposal of some exploration projects in Gualcamayo Mine. Now -- let's move now to cash. The cash and cash equivalents for the quarter increased by almost $17 million, closing at $50 million. The cash flows generated by operating activities were $37 million, mainly explained by revenue from sales of gold for $140 million and outflows from payments to suppliers for $75 million. Payments to employees and employee benefits for $24 million and tax payments for $4 million. The cash flows used in investing activities is described by purchases of property, by plant and equipment for $18 million, and by cash outflows related to exploration projects, such as DCP in Argentina and regional exploration of $5 million, which were partially offset by higher sales of financial instruments for $9 million. Finally, the cash flows used for financing activities was made up mainly by the payment of dividends for $5 million and the payment of financial obligations for $5 million. Now let's move to the adjusted EBITDA. The adjusted EBITDA for the quarter was $46 million, showing a 29% increase when compared to the fourth quarter of 2021. The adjusted EBITDA for the quarter is mainly explained by an 8% increase in ounces of gold sold along with a 3% decrease in costs excluding depreciation and amortization. Last but not least, let's look at the debt. At the end of the fourth quarter, the net debt was negative by $3 million. This was due to cash and cash equivalents were higher than loans and other borrowings. At the end of the period, when we compare the 2021 quarter, there's a 65% increase in net debt. This is explained that our cash equivalents in the fourth quarter explains $30 million in proceeds and outflows of the concurrent public offering in Toronto and Colombia in 2021. Regarding to the net debt to adjusted EBITDA ratio, this went from minus 0.05x to minus 0.02x, showing that we continue to have low levels of debt. To close the financial chapter, I want to restate that our priority is to protect the cash of the company in Mineros, that there's no risk in our company and growing our business, although the realities where we operate are changing on a daily basis. Although the impairment of Gualcamayo property asset had a significant impact on the income statement, it did not affect our cash position. Our cash flow increased from $17 million in 2021 to $22 million in 2022. With this, I give the floor back to Andres, who is going to talk about the operating indicators.

The graph on this slide summarizes the good operating performance that we've had over the last 5 quarters. We have maintained healthy production levels along with a steady decrease in unit costs. I would like to reinforce the Alan's message. What can a company do when the company faces situations such as the external factors? What can we do? Try to produce as much as we can. Try to produce it in a more efficient way to perform a good use of that cash, focusing in investments that we will -- give us continuity, and also taking care of the expenses. What we see in this performance, with these indicators, reflect what we are talking. We have good production, increasing production levels and indicators such as the -- this sustaining costs, AISC. The fourth was 12% higher than during the same quarter of 2021. This was mainly explained by the production of Nechi Alluvial Property and Hemco Property. The cash cost and AISC were decreased by 7% and 12%, respectively, mainly explained by higher ounces of gold sold and also by the lower sustaining capital expenditures. The average selling price for the quarter was $1,780 per ounce, 1% below the average sales price for the same quarter last year. So you can see that we have a quarter compared with the other one, this is helped us -- this helped us for production and also for the [ notefullness ] of expenses and costs to generate good cash flow for the company. Now, let's talk about operation detail. Let's start about Colombia. In Colombia, for the Nechi Alluvial Property, this increase -- this was an increase with respect to the same quarter of 2021. This variation is explained by lower production in 2021 due to delays in some environmental permits but also through greater operating efficiencies that we have been able to increase through 2022. As you can see in the graph at the top right, production in Colombia has been increasing consistently during the last 5 quarters, while AISC per ounce of gold sold has been decreasing. When we compare to the fourth quarter of last year, AISC per ounce of gold sold was down 34%. This was given by the variable of the higher production levels. The gross profit also benefited from higher amount of ounces, showing 213% growth over the comparable period, reaching $18 million. With this, we can say that Colombia had a good year, a solid year. And we could obtain those environmental permits also, and we could be able to perform this. This ends up with Colombia. Let's move on to Nicaragua. And Hemco was of 34,000 ounces, showing a 4% increase in this Hemco Property explained by higher production from the underground mine aided by higher average grade. In this operation, we see a different behavior from Colombia. Why? Because we see this is not so high because Nicaragua has been working for the year, the most capacity, as the highest capacity. On a short-term basis, we won't see any change. We won't see a substantial increase until we see a good milling process that from our project that we are looking forward of the capacity increase and also if we are going to be moving with this project Porvenir. This is a good challenging project we have in Nicaragua. However, you may see that you are incorporating efficiencies as this is positive for the company that we can enable to see the cash cost to have a reduction of 6%, reaching $1,357 per ounce. In 1 year that we had inflation, the truth is that money of this supplies that we have for the mineral, most importantly, in Nicaragua have important costs. Now let's continue with Argentina. In Argentina, the quarterly production decreased 20% when compared to the fourth quarter of 2021 as a result of a lower recovery rate given the type of gold containing material being processed. We are migrating from oxides to more pure levels. Lower production costs in AISC per ounce of gold to increase by 33% despite the fact that we decreased sustaining capital expenditures. The gross profit for the fourth quarter was $2 million, 69% below net profit in the comparable period, mainly explained by lower ounces of gold sold, despite that we had a [ 16% ] reduction in costs. Gualcamayo is a mine that is ending its life cycle, so we expect its annual production will be decreasing with time. What are we seeing in Gualcamayo? We are trying -- what you can see as landing -- a calm landing and as the way that the production declines because it's just starting to the end of life. Also costs will be decreasing. As a reminder, we want to tell you that we have a policy in our company, which is that the operation generate cash flows to do this process. With this, I'm saying that Argentina is not expecting and demanding a substantial capital injection by the holding or by Colombia or Nicaragua as well. This is a normal process, but also it's important to recall as well that we are continuing with the ending life of the mine. This can take 3 or 4 years approximately. We continue growth pathways. The exploration activities for the Deep Carbonates Project, looking to increase our balance of mineral reserves and mineral resources with the different variables. So it's really interesting. It seems that we are landing the mine in Argentina, but though looking to move another project because at times we can see that -- it's not as a perfect adjustment. So we will have some periods of time of the following years due to this landing of the actual and the current operations before we start thinking about these new projects such as the impact of Porvenir or positive impacts such as the capacity of the operation of Nicaragua before seeing a recovery -- a total recovery as a material in production and the different projects. We need to say that these are indicators and healthy indicators. So with the exception of Argentina, where the cash costs are tremendously competitive -- Nicaragua and Colombia. So you can see we have in Colombia, good cash flow. This is why we talk -- is to be careful in order to move on with this process of closing and ending the operation of Gualcamayo. Let's look ahead about prospectives and challenges. This year, we are expecting some 264,000 and 292,000 ounces of gold, which is an increase between 1% and 3% when compared to our 2021 guidance. This estimate assumes an increase. We are talking about that Argentina. It's ending its life. However, this will be a year where we will have a considerable production in the following years. We also want and expect this good production of the mine despite the fact that we will be closing slowly different processes and stages as well. As I tell you, this is a process that will take some time. So the guidance of cost per ounce of gold sold is between $1,160, which is an increase of close to 6% when compared to 2022 because we have less investments that can be depreciated in time. So we can see this to [ amortize ] and we need to deplete these operations. The all-sustaining cost guidance is between $1,400 and $1,490 per ounce, an increase of close to 3% when compared to 2022 guidance. So we have an increase 6% of cash cost [ but an ] AISC, but does this reflect that we are good with our investments. We are taking care of our cash flow. Let's talk about growth and exploration programs. At the end of the year, this was part of our adaptation of the realities that we are leaving such as the high cost of money globally speaking, the increase of interest. So what we did, we did an exercise to analyze and prioritize our pipeline of projects. This year, we will be focusing on 3 most important projects. Porvenir Project in Nicaragua, where we expect to complete pre-feasibility study in the first quarter of 2023. Lunar Roja Deposit where we continue to explore, we had a mineral resource estimation on July 2022, and we will continue exploring and the Deep Carbonates Project in Argentina, for which we expect to complete initial mineral resource estimation in the first quarter of 2023. As a result of this prioritization, we also start to reduce our exploration activities under the Royal Road Colombia Alliance Agreement. We want to see the rules by which these activities will be performing in the following years in Colombia. As a result of this prioritization, we took that decision to have 20% of the project of Chile, and we will be expecting that the company who owns 80% of this project is carrying out a process -- negotiation process with other countries -- other companies in Toronto. We are waiting to retake this investment agenda of exploration in Chile of an agreement with the new owners of this operation if this process will be completed. Okay. Before ending this call, I want to thank all our employees for their daily efforts to achieve the goals we have set for Mineros. And also, I would like to share because we already published this morning, we can talk about here in this call with the investors, the dividend proposal that was approved by the Board of Directors to be approved at the General Shareholders' Meeting. The Board of Directors proposed an annual dividend of $0.07 per share, which is an 8% increase over last year's ordinary dividend. This is mainly in dollars -- U.S. dollars. This dividend proposal is possible given the company's solid cash position and reserves from profit from previous years. We need to recall the definite decision with respect to dividends will be taken by the Board -- with the Board of -- Shareholders' meeting that will be taken in March of this year. So thank you very much for joining us today, and I open the space for questions.

[Operator Instructions]

Thank you, Juan Pablo. First question is being sent by Camilo Alvarez and he's asking, how much would be the estimate cost of closing of the operations in Argentina? The figure of the closing of Argentina is $43 million. This is the closing amount. Camilo Alvarez. In accordance to the results of the year results that investments that have been done, not in the recent years, which was not to be expected, what decision makes us to take about increasing dividends? As we are mentioning this proposal is with the counterpart of the cash flow. Camilo, No. No. The truth is that the cash flow of company is really strong. The company cash flow is really healthy. It's not substantially different from the previous analysis. In fact, it's better than the previous years. And the project Porvenir, which is the next investment, a strong one, if it's okay from the feasibility study, and we take the decision to continue, it would be for us in 2026 at the end of 2026. So -- in this way, we are not pretending to stop cash of the company and not paying a dividend as we have been doing it for more than 40 years in this company. This dividend was studied by the Board of Directors. It does not have any impact. It does not impact the cash flow to operate in a continuous way. We do not have a bad price of the gold. We don't have a negative impact that the company is not able to manage, and we are operating with a good cash flow. So therefore, in my opinion and the Board of Directors, it's a good one, and we are going to keep this dividend, and we are going to keep this value on time. How do you expect to end up the financial debt at the end of the year? We are going to wait to respond to this question. I don't know if we are able to respond and answer the question. We believe that this is an information depending on the behavior of -- but right now, I cannot answer the question. It's possible that we will have a greater detail of the operational efficiency that have been developing in Alluvial. Yes, of course. As I was showing you in previous presentations, remember that we have environmental permit to operate for some years, but we need to ask and submit some permits in terms of forest permit in a periodic way. What we do previously in previous years, we increased the areas that were asked and we received a permit. When we receive this operating permit, when we're going to operate the dredges -- I remind you that we're not connected to rivers. We are on the side of the river, like -- making like an artificial lagoon, totally isolated of the river to not make sediments. But we can work and operate in a wider range with dredges. We can do this we can do this open pit and the dredges can work and operate when -- this can operate in areas where they cannot be part of this rivers and this generates a better operations, better productions and allow us to handle the prices. In Argentina, we've also have operational efficiencies as well. During the last 5 years, the amount of gold that we have been able to mill to -- have increased in an impressive way. We have been able to grind it and we have -- but also we have operated, and this allows us to decrease cost. So the company is permanently seeking efficiencies and seeking to increase its production inside the limit of the installed operations. So this is the -- with the also AISC. What delayed the publication of the pre-feasibility in Porvenir that was announced to be done in the last quarter of 2022? The team that was making this activity brought us some investment figures that were too high for the company. So we needed to have a delay. We changed the team. This was the first decision we took. And we talked to them and we said that you need to review figures, you need to incorporate some changes in the way you do the conditioning of this project because the company needs a project with better indicators. This work has been progressing, and we believe that we will give risk factors in the first quarter of 2023. This pre-feasibility study, this is a normal process. This is common. We hire companies, they estimate investments and they perform a pre-feasibility study. We don't like the figures, they need to review them again. And it's better to be careful with this, to do it before, this is some time studying then to have surprises and negative surprises later on. What -- this is a term, like is an English term. What is the -- I don't like it, the sweet spot, what you say about sweet spot? What I'm looking more than I prefer. Before the costs were increased, we could think about that investment of $300 million could be manageable for the company. With the current cost of money with the interests, we decreased $200 million. We believe that investments above $200 million are more risky for the company. In good part, this is what -- in Chile without that let's stop and let's stay with 20%. Because the project -- La Pepa Project was going to move, this will demand a great amount of money. Mineros could not face it alone. It would need partners. So if we already have 20%, it's better to be careful, and let's stop with this 20%. And let's discuss it with the new owners if they want to have an increase of shares or we stop with 20%. Now I'm going to retake Camilo's question with respect to the expected debt for 2023. Okay. Camilo, our debt has decreased $8 million in 2022. And I would hope to continue with this trend in 2023. The idea is always to have a good cash flow and a low debt. So this is the strategy. Also, it's important to clarify that part a substantial part of this debt is something to repotentiate Providencia, the ones that the power plant that we have -- energy power plant that we have in Colombia. And this is favorable numbers for Colombia that we think we need to keep during the time, at the present time until we don't think we need to expand the operation. This investment that was done to repotentiate of this energy plant has allow us to recover the energy we need -- the power we need to -- the capacity to sell and to be connected that we are really -- this is really -- we had an investment of -- the cash cost and the return rate of this investment are more positive than the initial project that was assessed to move on with this reinforcing. So we are going to decrease that, but we are not going to reduce it so dramatically because already the debt on a short-term basis in order to handle our cash. And the most important debt is the one, the investment we have in the power plant, which is in very good conditions currently speaking. Paola Galindo. What do you refer about processing more assets in Gualcamayo? Well, this increases the operational cost. It's backwards. It's the opposite. We are moving a processing outside to more sulfurs. And this sulfur will imply greater costs because we need to agglomerate, we need to join this mineral, and this has a process that's lower. That's -- it's profitable to move cash in order to be together with the projects and the process of the life of the operation. Rodrigo Sanchez. From amount -- what is amount of Gualcamayo and how long could you execute the net -- what is the tax? Well, Gualcamayo cost is not banning if it's -- the costs are for closing -- and the own operation, its own operation will cover this closing process. This is what we are working on. It's too early to say with certainty of the amount, what do I refer with this. Right now, the VP in Argentina, John Jairo Cuervo is visiting mines in Chile, in Peru, which already has performed this closing processes similar to ours, and they have already held these processes. And he's working with a firm in Chile who specializes in these processes. What these process consists of? It consists of a washing of the mine to remove that remanent, the residual gold. And it will be closed at the different mining operations, but they will keep operations with the metal operation, recovery of gold. This is a gradual process, this is not abandoning. This is a gradual process, which I said at the beginning, this will take 3 or more years depending the time. It depends on the pace that we will see the residual gold in the mine. What other things can happen? Many things can happen. It may happen that the price of gold will change, and this will be attractive and appealing of the some areas of the mines that are not so attractive appealing. So what happens in this mine activity, the conditions change from one historical moment to the other. This makes that company -- possible that companies will make a gradual processes to handle and move things towards the future. I can change. I want to change -- in Colombia, for example, we have an expiration with the Royal Road, which is called maintenance. We reduced investment to the minimum to continue operating, not to suspend the project but not also to advance. What are we waiting? That there will be a change in regulation, the rules can change, the gold price will be more attractive for the budget. What happens -- this can happen as well prices of commodities will change with time in a certain period of time, cannot be so appealing, but in another certain period of time, I'm going to change. Also the example. Let's talk about when we talk about the investment of the reinforcement of our power energy plants of -- the changes were less -- much part of this cost were not so good because we see other prices of energy, for example. Okay. [indiscernible] [ Aaron Daniel ]. What is being done to reinforce the cycle life -- this will accelerate the process of -- the take into the life cycle -- lifespan? We are looking processes more that will help us to take some regions of these dredges that we are not able to get. We are talking about formalizing processes, but we're also looking more light dredges that is not so profitable with other dredges that are heavier in this year. In fact, we are doing the conditioning of a dredge that's lighter that is built by ourselves, by Mineros, so this makes the lifespan to be longer. But these processes are not so efficient from cost -- talking about costs, as the other dredges that we use. These will be profitable but with margins, less margins of operations that we call -- we call [indiscernible]. We have a dredge that is massive. These lighter dredges, we talk about selective dredging, and these will help us to increase the lifespan. And we talk about that we have an estimate lifespan, shelf life, based on certified patents from 12 years approximately. We still have a good shelf life for these operations. We hope to have a new acquisition in Argentina when we close Argentina mines? No. For now, we are in the process of moving forward with Porvenir. And also to close the end life of Argentina and look for different alternatives for La Pepa and for [ Carbonatos Profundos ] DCP. Once we had these issues solved out, I think that we will be looking at other alternatives of investments because the truth is we consider that a good way of managing risk, the normal managing risk of these kinds of activities is having geographical diversification. But for now, we are organizing the house if we could say so before we start looking for other opportunities. Cesar Orosco. Argentina, Nicaragua and especially Argentina have inflation above the global media. How do you expect to work and short out this inflationary? Yes, that in Nicaragua, we are seeing different technologies to lower costs. Nicaragua is the country that -- its currency is dollar. And if the inflation starts to lower its pace, it should lower costs as well in Nicaragua. In Argentina, the inflation is above the devaluation of peso. And this is one of the reasons that we have thought about moving this year, the prices in Argentina changing, and this is the situation we are facing now. And lastly, in Colombia, the case is the opposite side. The devaluation has helped costs in Colombia. And in Colombia, we follow an operation -- a constant operation where more or less, it's been controlled inflation and devaluation as well. I know that for you, it's not such a good news, what we are showing you in terms of net profit, but I want to reinforce the message. We are facing substantial changes in the business -- in the businesses globally by the increase of money and locally in different regions, inflation -- internal inflation, it's hard for any operation. I believe that we need to be careful with what we are doing, a controlling process of all the expenses and also the company expenses, protecting the position of the company and focusing on the projects that we see good possibility of guaranteeing the operations continuity and the growth as well. Okay. Jorge [indiscernible]. It has been faced that the valuation of the share -- do you believe you can buy shares? However, in the specific case, for this year, we need to have this dividend proposals. We are showing this to the consideration of the general assembly. We want to have an acquisition of shares. The truth is that when we see the cash and we see the cash projections in the Board of Directors, we talked about paying this dividend. And let's wait. Let's hold for a new appreciation in the stock market. We see about the gold, the price, and we could generate an important cash inside the organization. For now, we need to pay the dividend in cash for all the investors for now. Jorge [indiscernible]. What comments can you share with us about the supposed payment of Mineros from the social media against Mineros S.A.? What can you tell about what happened in the media yesterday? We've been moving with the formalizing process in Chile. We have some mining people that are formalized and this has been a successful process. Historically speaking, we have performed discussions and sessions to formalize them. We have an -- we had a company. And also, we follow another community in Cuturu, EMINCUT. This is as a company that was created. The truth is that it's impossible to respond positively to all the demands of all the mining operators -- the mine operators, and that they want to participate, all these mine workers, in the formalizing process. Right now, we are generating jobs for different mine workers without taking into account [indiscernible]. And last year, we gave a formalizing region in the [indiscernible] area, in the [indiscernible] region. We agree with the efforts the government is doing formalizing a process of the mine workers, and we are positive of working, but we cannot respond to out the demand of all these kinds of people because it would be really to compromise the future of the operation. Therefore, what can we do when we see these kinds of situations? We need to company -- we have to receive the company of the authorities for protecting our mining regions, continue with the process of the operations and we need to comply with the law. Cesar Orosco. We are going to wait 3 more years for the mine in Argentina. We think that this will be another cash figures that will impact the net profit. Cesar, when you estimate the figures to talk about the -- the impairment we take into account, the gold price discount rate, recovery rates. And once you have this estimate, you will do this impairment. If these variables would improve, what could -- we could see it's like it would be like a recovery. And if we see a recovery within these variables and this -- if this deteriorate, we could have more -- we need to wait. We need to wait how we move especially in Argentina for the following years. And this is basically what I have been explaining using like soften a slight landing. What is our goal? Our goal will generate the cash, the necessary cash to end its life without demanding additional cash with Mineros but also that the impact of the financial results will be easy to manage. We believe that if we keep as it's been predicted for this year and the following years, we are going to be able to obtain it. We will achieve it. Remember that when an airplane is landing, we need to take into account all the indicators if there are some adjustments to be done there will be done. So seeming to make this exercise, it's important to -- remember that a pilot -- when we were talking about a pilot landing and a -- we see that the pilot, the captain, tells the crew to be concentrated. This is like a sterile cabin, from now on, we will be focusing on landing the airplane correctly. So we need -- we have a plan in good -- in a good operation right now that can land calmly. Obviously, we will be very careful with all the variables. We are doing a complete managing of cash. We are obediently having the behavior of the gradual process of reduction of costs. We will do a gradual closing process. This will take 3 years. This will be 3 years careful -- but this will not affect the operations. Honestly speaking, this is normal to occur in the mining operation. So we are really wise. We will be -- we would really wise with this. The stock exchange in Colombia is really punished. But in Mineros why do you think it's happening with Mineros? I think the environment for business in Colombia -- generally speaking, you see the behavior of all the shares. You can see of all the public offerings, and you can see whenever you do an announce that will be affecting any kind of activity, there will be a negative impact of the share. We have seen also -- this year what we have seen, gradually, it is starting to increase the number of shares in Toronto Stock Exchange and also in the Colombian Stock Exchange. We see this is a refugee for investors in Colombia, to say so. And to migrate towards Toronto, many people know how to do this. This process has its pathway, but we believe this is something of the positive externalities to be in this second stock exchange in Toronto. This is another exogenous factor that we need to face. And this is another one that we want to face it with a less impact as possible, not only for the company but for the investors. Cesar Orosco. What would be the strategic investments for 2023 to obtain and achieve the goals on a long-term basis of the company? We will be focusing on Porvenir. We will be completing this feasibility, and we will be exploring in Nicaragua, which is the geography, the region that we have more interesting possibilities for investment. We are doing the necessary investments to do this landing that we are talking about. In Colombia, we have the maintenance activities and exploration activities to look for -- to be more efficient in the operations. This is good for expanding the lifespan that we are expecting to have. We are not stopping the activities that will assure the performance of Mineros but we believe it can generate some returns -- solid returns in the future. How much the investment cost in Argentina? Alfonso. in 2018, we paid USD 30 million for this operation. '18 -- from 2018 to the current date, we have given another $10 million. Daniel. What are the expectations of production to 2024 and 2025? It's too early to show a guidance related to these productions. We submitted guidance for the year. We published it this year. And this is a growth between 1% and 3% of production. What I explained to you before is that we are working total capacity. There is no margin. When we talk about a new operation, we will be talking -- with Porvenir, for example. Or the milling derived from this capacity, we will not be able to show a substantial impact with the production levels yet. Daniel [ Lienau ]. Is there any environmental restriction to generate more dredges in [indiscernible] to increase the operation to have an AISC? Now you all know that the environmental permits have been growing all over the world. Compensation requirements for permits have been growing in all the regions around the world. We have been able to adapt ourselves in a satisfactory way to comply the requirements. What we have right now are some permits for more or less 3 years more. And we are working on those works with the environmental entity to have another permit -- more permits. We don't have any restriction that will be like a relevant information that we need to submit to the market. Until now, we have seen that we are moving on permits and we are moving on processes as well. But it's no secret that the requirements -- the environmental requirements are increasing on time, not only for this activity for all activities. In general, what we see, we have more environmental awareness and also there are more costs for -- on part of the companies to the net carbon protection. We have a net carbon print compared with other activities. Yet, we have goals for this net carbon footprint, we will be publishing on the following months. We've been working with the rest of the companies in an environmental agenda as well together with the company -- with the government. We believe this makes part of the requirement of the different stakeholders. With respect to this activity, we perform as well as other -- the economic activities that are being performed around the world. What do you expect of the future behavior of the stock exchange in Toronto? Do you believe it's good to have it there? Yes. Yes, I think it's important to work with the stock exchange in Toronto. This was interesting. Yes. Why do we believe it has been important because as you can see in the different statements that are already published -- that have already been published, management discussion and analysis. This is a statement that's been written by the stock exchange of Toronto. We see the behavior has been through this year better than the stock exchange in Colombia. So -- we believe, yes, it has been positive. It has been better. Although in Toronto, there are more than 26 million shares in Colombia, where in Colombia, we have 273 million shares. So still, there in Toronto, there's a better price behavior. There's a better comprehension of this business. Also, it has opened opportunities in order to perform alliances and partnerships to look future alliances. We have not been able to complete any other partners, but we are looking forward. This is because we are prioritizing the challenges that we faced this year, which are considerable, 80% is not a minor challenge. The increase on interest is another minor challenge in 1 year where the dollar price did not have an inflation and international inflation of the supplies. But I believe that the condition on a long-term basis, the stock exchange in Toronto has been positive, and we would like to have a greater impact, and this is what we've been working to facilitate the investors as much as possible to go with and continue in this stock exchange. Yes. How is the shares process? And how can we increase with other firms so they can translate, they move the shares? This is a process that has been growing on time. What we see is that it has been growing. We have 2 stock exchange, and we -- they have been doing it for their investors. We have a company with where Patricia is working, Patricia Ospina, who can help you with this. She is here with you to work with you. We believe -- there's a meeting of mining companies see that. We will be there. We will be talking with the different stakeholders in that market to facilitate this share flows, as you will say, it's a good way of generating greater businesses and greater opportunities. Douglas asks, what is the consideration of the company with respect to the political risk? The political risk in the different geographies have changed -- has changed. There is a variation within this risk and the better -- the best way to approaching it is the geographical diversification. And this is what Mineros has done in the previous years. There has been moments when we have situations that can get more severe, and there are more subsequent events that can [indiscernible] or exacerbate, but there are some other events with respect to what the company can do is to state that we are monitoring this political risk in a consistent way to alleviate it, to mitigate it. In some cases, we have a positive impact. Some other times, don't -- we don't, but we need to have some -- to wait -- with wait -- we wait to affect our stakeholders. And probably, I would say that this is not rare. This is normal in these activities that we perform. And in previous years, Board of Directors member told us that generally they operate in difficult regions. It's not exclusively of the regions we are operating. We have mining companies in Nigeria, in Gala, in South Africa, these are complex -- in Mali. These are complex regions as well. Paola Galindo. I'm going to ask what to -- why did the exploration activities were suspended? This was a concept in mining. We need to have a maintaining. We did not cancel the exploration. They were reduced to the minimum to wait to have a good condition in the exploration. We have -- we want to share a sequel in the government -- we are talking about our policy, but this is a new project with a new code. And you -- and we are waiting the results that the government will be stating to see what happens in Colombia with the process of investments. What is the relationship of Nicaragua with Royal Road Minerals? Yes. Not in Nicaragua, but in Colombia, we have a partnership. We have a joint venture with them, and we are going -- we both have regions where we have exploration patents, licenses, and we have a relationship to move forward or stand or wait together in a joint operation. Talking about the decision of investing in Argentina, from the moment you bought in Argentina, you already knew that Argentina was going start to be closed, what we see in Argentina. Also, I want to call the attention about 2 things. When we invested in Argentina, we had a government that was different to the current government. It was Macri who have different perspective and approach that the current government has. And there was no inflations more than 80%. Therefore, the conditions of the country by which we invested at that time changed radically in these 4 years. The investment was done in 2018, we are in 2023. Also, the investment conditions changed in Colombia, also in Chile. This makes part of the business the mining business. We have to take this into consideration. We need to adjust the environment of the business -- of the mining business. That's it. [indiscernible]. What will you be doing in this meeting? What you will be doing in this -- in Toronto? Because it's everyone here in this meeting. We will talk about -- and we will talk with a stock exchange. We will talk about with lawyers. This will be a very productive week to be in Toronto. But we don't have any specific project to promote, so we will be participating -- an active participation. But we will be in the city for that week, and we have an agenda full of meetings related with this specific interest. Okay. This was a good meeting with results really attended by all of you with really relevant questions. We hope we could answer them correctly. And I would like to end this call in this, we want to talk about optimism. I think that the activity is profitable. We have a good cash flow and the company is a solid company. We have a solid company. Yes, indeed, we are making adjustments that we have an impact on a long term, and it would be responsible of our part not to do them, it's better to do the adjustments and accept the impact. This will not be reflected, but it will be -- this will -- we are not taking into account the impact of results. We are saying to do a good behavior of all the operations and the company is taking care of the cash. This is the best we can do during this year's and in the current conditions by which the Mineros is operating in the geographies and we are attending projects, which will give continuity to grow in the future. Anymore? We don't have any more questions, yes? Okay. Now with this, we will end up our conference. As there are no further, then we will proceed to closing. Thank you very much for your participation. Now you may disconnect. [Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]