Minor International Public Company Limited (MINT) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, everyone. Thank you all for joining us today for Minor International Third Quarter and 9-Month 2024 Analyst Meeting. We're delighted to share an overview of MINT's recent performance and strategic priorities as we look towards the future. We'll begin today with the opening remarks from our Chairman, Khun Bill Heinecke, who will provide a high-level view of the past quarter and our business performance through the first 9 months of the year. Khun Bill will highlight the broader themes and progress across our key business that drive our results. After Khun Bill's remarks, I'll dive deeper into the operational performance and specific metrics across our core businesses, Minor Hotels, Minor Food. I'll walk you through how each business unit has performed, our current positioning in each market and the trends we're seeing across the industry. We'll then move into an update on corporate level items, including our CapEx plan, a recap of our balance sheet position and a summary of our financial results. This will give you a complete view of how we're managing resources to support growth and maximize shareholder value. Finally, Khun Bill will close the meeting with forward-looking remarks, discussing our outlook, key strategies and the growth drivers we believe will keep us well positioned to navigate the future successfully. Thank you all again for being here. And with that, I'd like to hand over to Khun Bill to start us off. Khun Bill, over to you.

Thank you. Good morning, everyone, or good evening, depending on where you are in the world. I'm very pleased with our performance for the first 9 months. We've been expanding globally with strategic destinations, including Indonesia. We just opened in Ubud. We've opened in Italy, Australia and Vienna, reinforcing our international footprint. We've re-enhanced our asset-light strategy with milestones such as the debut of our first NH hotels in South Africa and the launch of 2 purely managed hotels in Sri Lanka, and this highlights our growing recognition and the strength of the minor brands. In terms of our restaurants, they've also expanded dramatically with the opening of Indonesia, where we've just opened GAGA and taken over the Dairy Queen operations, and this will contribute strongly to our profit in 2025. We also introduced a Thai street food concept in China, and this will be franchised and will be a major contributor, we believe, in 2025 in China. We have an enhanced brand awareness through flagship openings of Swensen's and other of our brands all around the Asian region. In terms of performance, of course, we've achieved strong RevPAR growth in South Europe and Thailand. And this is in spite of Thailand's rainy season and prior to us going into the peak fourth quarter high season. Our GHA DISCOVERY loyalty program has expanded to 28.3 million members globally. This is driven by international stays showcasing the effectiveness of our cross-brand, cross-selling strategies. But as we turn into the highlights of 9 months '24, I think the big number I'd like to leave you with is the fact that we had 16% year-on-year net profit growth in the third quarter '24 and 19% in the 9 months of 2024. We focused on our core profits because we think these are the numbers you should know. In addition, our overall total revenue grew by 9%. Core EBITDA and net profit margins improved to 28% and 6.3%, respectively. We also had a robust cash flow and as a result of that, paid an increased dividend to THB 0.57 a ton in this period. We received a credit rating upgrade from Moody's as we made a strong attempt and we reduced our loans and outstandings in -- both in Europe and in Asia. This credit rating was well received by everyone, and it reinforces the strong market confidence in our financial stability and performance. We also received a lot of recognition. We received recognition in Rome for our Anantara Rome as the #2 hotel in the Condé Nast Travelers. We've also had incredible recognition of our leadership in innovation, and this was demonstrated by the -- being named the #1 company in Thailand by Time Magazine. If we turn to our full year -- okay, I'll leave it over to you then.

Okay. Well, next session, I'll deep dive into each business units. Maybe start off with -- following Khun Bill's overview, I'd like to provide you more detail on our Minor Hotels expansion, achievements for the first 9 months of '24. As shown on this slide, we've added a total of 24 properties across our portfolio, consisting 21 new openings and 4 rebrandings, represented by the green and yellow markers, respectively. Our new hotel openings span key regions across Europe, Asia, Middle East, Africa and Australia. Highlights include an untapped properties in Vienna, Bali and Jaipur as well as NH Collection Hotels in Helsinki, Colombo, the Maldives and multiple locations in Bangkok. We also expanded with Avani and Anantara properties in destinations like India, China and Thailand. In addition to new openings, we have rebranded 4 key properties to align with our premium brand standards. These rebranded locations shown in yellow include Avani Museum Quarter in Amsterdam, NH Collection, Gent Belfort in Belgium, Tivoli Palazzo Gaddi in Italy and Avani Frankfurt City in Germany. These rebrands strengthen our presence in strategic markets, allowing us to deliver our signature guest experiences, boost brand recognition and capture higher average daily rates, or ADR. Notably, our 9-month '24 expansion also includes the addition of the Anantara Vacation Club inventory in the UAE and the launch of new Minor Hotels wellness program to meet growing demand for wellness-focused travel. Through these expansion and rebranding, we have significantly enhanced our global footprint, diversify our high-quality portfolio. These achievements set a strong foundation for future growth and position us well to capture diverse consumer segment across high-growth markets. And next slide, here, we showcase Minor International diverse portfolio of luxury and lifestyle properties spanning premier destinations around the globe. We have in this picture, iconic Anantara Palais Hansen in Vienna and new Anantara Ubud Bali Resort, both offering immersive culturally rich experiences. Our NH Collection brand shines in Helsinki, brand Hansa and the vibrant NH Paris Champs-Elysees theater to upscale travelers in Europe major cities. Lifestyle segment, we see Avani urban appeal in Bangkok, Ratchada District and Amsterdam Museum Quarter. And finally, our high-end beach resorts like NH Maldives Kuda Rah Resort represent the ultimate tropical luxury. Each of these properties strengthens our brand and global footprint and elevate our presence in key markets. Next slide, turning to our third quarter and 9-month financial highlights for our hotel business, our Minor Hotels. I would like to walk you through the key drivers of our performance this year. First, on the financial side, we saw strong growth all across major metrics. Core profit grew 20% year-on-year in the third quarter, well above 6% year-on-year increase in core revenue. And this growth was driven by high occupancy and solid rate performance in key regions, particularly in Europe, Lat Am, Thailand. Core revenue increase also outpaced core inflation, benefiting from economies of scale. For 9-month '24, core revenue grew by 11% year-on-year, core EBITDA increased by 12% and core NPAT rose 18%, reflecting higher flow-through from robust operational efficiency. On the strategic initiatives, we focus on several key areas, driving organic growth. We continue to reposition and upgrade our properties, which boosted our ADR. Retail rates contribute about 56% to 60% of bookings with increased demand from emerging theater markets like the Middle East, India and Australia. We expand through an asset-light model. We further expand in existing markets, include South Africa, Sri Lanka, the Maldives, India and by adding new properties under management contracts. This asset-light approach support our growth with minimal capital expenditure. For new business model, we introduced Layan Life by Anantara, a transformative wellness destination in Phuket, catering to the growing wellness tourism segment. And for future growth initiatives, we have strong forward booking across Asia and Europe with single-digit growth in on-the-books revenues. We're also preparing for additional high potential openings in strategic destination elsewhere as well. Overall, our third quarter and 9-month '24 results underscore Minor Hotels' ability to deliver steady growth through a mix of strategic positioning, operational efficiency and asset-light expansion. Moving on to next slide, Europe and the Americas, where we saw continued solid growth in third quarter. We owned and leased hotel portfolio in the region performed very well, driven by strong demand across both the leisure and business segments, which has been a key revenue driver. Occupancy remained strong at 72%, showing a year-on-year increase of 1%, while ADR grew by 7% year-on-year, reaching EUR 155. Together, these factors drove a 9% year-on-year increase in RevPAR, with RevPAR growth further boosted by both ADR and improved occupancy. Importantly, RevPAR in the third quarter also surpassed pre-pandemic levels from third quarter '19, indicating the sustained momentum of global tourism. In terms of regional performance, Spain, Central Europe and Benelux led the way with particular strong growth, fueled by high summer season and rising visitor numbers from key markets like the U.S., U.K. Spain alone contributed 32% of total revenues for Minor Hotels Europe and America in third quarter with an 18% year-on-year RevPAR increase. Central Europe contributed 21% of revenue with a 13% RevPAR increase, while Benelux also showed solid gains with a 7% RevPAR growth. We're also pleased to report that Minor Hotels Europe and Americas recently received a credit rating upgrade from Moody's, as Khun Bill mentioned. They raised our long-term corporate family rating from B1 to Ba3, and this upgrade reflects sustained improvements in financial health and liquidity across the region. Looking ahead, despite moving into a lower travel season, on-the-books revenue suggests continued high single-digit year-on-year growth for fourth quarter of '24. Furthermore, we expect to benefit from economy of scale and positive market trends, which will support continued growth in fourth quarter and beyond into '25 as well. Let's look at Asia. Our hotel portfolio, next slide, experienced strong growth in third quarter '24, led by Thailand. System-wide RevPAR for our owned hotels in Thailand increased by 12% year-on-year, driven by high ADR in key destinations like Bangkok, Samui, Pattaya and Chiang Mai as well as occupancy gains in Phuket. We're seeing positive trends in other Asian markets as well. In Sri Lanka, daily rates have been rising and in the Maldives, occupancy rates have improved compared to last year. For Thailand, in particular, despite the rainy season, as Khun Bill mentioned, our properties in Thailand performed well, thanks to a well-executed direct booking strategy and exclusive packages that drove revenue across rooms, F&B and other hotel services. Looking at some other key stats, occupancy for our owned hotels in Thailand reached 66%, up 2% year-on-year. ADR grew by 9% year-on-year to THB 6,800, while RevPAR rose by 12% year-on-year to over THB 4,400, showcasing our effective pricing and demand capture strategies. On the expansion front, Asia remains a focus area for Minor Hotels. In third quarter, we opened 6 new hotels, 3 in Thailand, 2 in the Maldives and 1 in Indonesia. Recent openings of Anantara and NH properties in high-demand locations like Bali, India, Sri Lanka and Thailand further strengthened our presence in this dynamic region. These properties support our cross-brand expansion strategy and position us to capture a broad range of consumer segments. We have seen strong support from key feeder markets with increased travelers from U.S., U.K., Russia, India and Australia. Looking forward, in fourth quarter '24, bookings remain strong, especially in holiday destination like Thailand and Bali, where we anticipate growth driven by upcoming festive season and heightened visibility from the upcoming release of the White Lotus Season 3, the famous HBO series, which feature our resorts, and that should kick in, in terms of their effect more pronounced in early '25. Overall, our strategic initiatives and new openings in Asia enable us to build on the recent growth momentum, solidify our market position and support sustainable revenue growth across portfolio. Next slide, just to show you asset-light businesses, which include management letting rights, or MLR, of serviced-suites under Oaks brand in Australia and New Zealand as well as hotel management contracts across Minor Hotels' brands. Starting with management letting rights. Our MLR segment has shown resilience despite a lingering impact from last year record high base and some shifts in travel patterns with increased international outbound tourism. RevPAR in AUD terms remained significantly above pre-pandemic levels, while occupancy rates holding steady on par with 2019 at the very high level. Our MLR portfolio grew 8% year-on-year to about over 7,100 rooms, reflecting our continued expansion in this segment. Turning into managed hotels. System-wide RevPAR exceeded both '23 and '19 levels by 4%, supported by strong performance from our properties in high-demand international markets, such as Bali and UAE. This growth has been driven by strategic expansion and the addition of new managed properties. Our managed hotels portfolio grew by 17% year-on-year to over 18,000 rooms in the third quarter of '24, in line with our asset-light growth strategy. Looking ahead, we have several notable upcoming openings in the managed hotel segments, which will further strengthen our position in key international markets. They include Riyadh, Cairo, Vientiane, for example. Our asset-light model continues to be a vital part of our growth strategy, allowing us to expand our footprint in high potential markets with our significant capital investment while responding effectively to evolving travel trends. Next slide, mixed use. In the third quarter '24, revenue from our mixed-use remained steady year-on-year. We saw top line growth in Anantara Vacation Club, or ADC, as well as in our U.K. restaurants, retail and plaza and entertainment segments. However, this growth was balanced out with lower revenue from residential projects, mainly due to the timing of the sales of the properties. On the residential side, we have active projects across key locations, including Phuket, Malaysia, Chiang Mai. We're also expanding with future developments in Bali and Koh Samui, adding high-end villas to our portfolio. For Anantara Vacation Club, membership grew by 3% year-over-year, now reaching nearly 18,800 members with the largest segment coming from China still. To support this growth, we have increased our inventory by 9% with plans to expand beyond 240 units -- 420 units by 2026 in popular destinations like Thailand and Dubai. Overall, this mix of residential projects and a growing vacation club further strengthens our income and enhance our brand presence in key markets as well. Now let's look at the pipeline. As of the third quarter '24, Minor Hotels had a portfolio of 561 hotels. Looking ahead, we have 114 signed projects in the pipeline. spread across Europe, Asia, the Middle East and Australia with the majority under management agreements or franchise contracts. In addition, we're negotiating 173 new projects, positioning us for future further growth, especially in key regions like Europe, China and the Middle East. Our goal for '26 is to reach over 120,000 rooms, up from around 81,000 today. We're also shifting towards a more asset-light strategy, as I mentioned earlier, reducing our ownership of physical assets and focusing more on management agreements, which will help improve profitability. Geographically, Europe and Asia will continue to be our largest contributors with planned growth in Americas and Oceania. Overall, our pipeline and strategy position us well for expansion and long-term value creation. Now moving on to Minor Food. For Minor Food, let's review third quarter and 9-month financial highlights first. In the third quarter, we saw steady growth in our core restaurant revenue, supported by ongoing operational improvements in our key markets, especially Thailand and Singapore. Revenue rose by 3% year-on-year in third quarter and 4% for the 9 months, while core profit grew even faster than revenue, thanks to our focus on cost discipline, efficient revenue flow-through and expansion initiatives with quick payback periods. Thailand was a particularly strong performer this quarter, driven by The Pizza Company, Sizzler and our manufacturing operation. With these brands leading the way and disciplined cost control in place, we achieved solid margin improvements. Our margin in the first 9 months expand to 22.9%, reflecting the benefits of operational efficiency, particularly in Thailand through in-house manufacturing and control raw material costs. However, EBITDA margin dipped slightly in the third quarter to 22.6%. This is due to mixed market conditions in some of our overseas markets, which I will explain later on. So on our strategic initiatives in the third quarter and 9 months, we focus on 4 main areas. We drive organic growth. Across our core brands, we introduce innovative products and appealing value options that have resonated well with customers. We also launch special dine-in promotions, which increase on-premise sales and contribute positively to our margins. We expand through an asset-light model. We continue to grow through franchise partnerships, adding new territory agreements for Benihana, the Coffee Club, which allow us to broaden our reach without significant capital investment. We entered new markets. This quarter, we marked our entry into Indonesia by launching the first GAGA store, tapping into a market with strong growth potential for our brand. We also paved the way for future growth. We introduced new brands in key regions like Singapore and China, allowing us to explore fresh concepts and diversify our offerings, which position us well for future opportunities as consumer preferences evolves. So our operational improvement and strategic growth initiatives have put Minor Food on a robust growth path with disciplined approach to cost management and a focus on innovation. We're well positioned to continue driving value and adapting to shifts in the market. Next slide. This slide just to highlight some of our existing new food concepts and products. First, we're launching innovative concept store, like Khun Bill mentioned, Swensen's flagship in Ton Tann Market designed to offer unique ice cream experience. We're also expanding our brand presence in new locations, including the GAGA brands entry into Indonesia. We're introducing fresh products, new products, new menu and campaigns to engage customers such as Dairy Queen's Belgium Chocolate Series, Sizzler's Cheese Toast Town and seasonal German Fest menu. Finally, in Singapore, we're testing new brands and dining concepts like BatterCatch for classic fish and chips and VietSmith offering authentic Vietnamese cuisine. These initiatives are all about keeping our food offering fresh, fun, exciting and relevant to our customers across different generation and across different regions as well. Moving on to Minor Food ASEAN. In the third quarter, our restaurants in Thailand across ASEAN saw strong overall sales growth, driven by popular menu offerings and new concepts. In Thailand, we experienced growth in both customer visits of docket average spending per customer as well. Key highlights include the success of Dairy Queen's limited-time Belgium chocolate menu and The Pizza Company's expanded menu options, which combine premium offerings with great value. In Singapore, our team continues to test new dining concepts, targeting a range of consumer taste from classic fish and chips to Vietnamese Pho. This innovation strategy has shown positive results. In Indonesia, we're also seeing impressive growth, particularly from Dairy Queen, where sales are on the rise as we continue to expand. So overall, this region performed well with Thailand and Singapore leading the way with innovative product offering and customer engagement. Elsewhere, next slide. In the third quarter, Australia saw a 12% increase in revenue, thanks to strong coffee bean sales. The Coffee Club benefited from a store and menu revamp driving solid single-digit growth in sales. Our expanded coffee roasting capacity is also paying off with contract roasting showing signs of steady growth as well. In China, we're facing macroeconomic challenges, as I used to mention to you in previous quarter, which have impacted sales. Despite this, we launched a new affordable Thai brand to reach a wider audience while keeping costs low. We're also focusing on high-return locations with shorter payback periods to improve capital efficiency. Overall, Australia coffee business is performing well, while China, we're adapting our strategies to manage market conditions and maintain our profitability. Next slide, just to show you a food expansion pipeline. Currently, Minor Food operates 2,661 outlets with a balance of 52% owned and 48% franchised locations. By '26, we aim to expand to over 3,700 outlets, maintain a similar mix between owned and franchise. Geographically, Thailand is our largest market, making up 77% of our outlets, followed by Australia and China. And by '26, Thailand will remain core market, but we expect growth in other region as well, especially in Australia and China as we continue to diversify our footprint. Let's moving on to our corporate information section for the third quarter performance. In the third quarter, we delivered solid year-on-year growth in both core revenue and core profit, reflecting the success of our strategic initiatives. Core revenue reached THB 42 billion, a 5% increase from last year. This growth was led by gains across all segments with Minor Hotels, excluding NH, adding THB 726 million, MHEA Europe contributing THB 1.2 billion and Minor Food adding another THB 241 million. In terms of revenue mix, Minor Hotels account for 81% and Minor Food made up 19%. In terms of core profit, it rose to THB 2.6 billion, up 16% year-on-year. This increase was driven by Minor Hotels contributing 77% to net profit and Minor Food accounting for 23%. Performance improvement in hotels and efficiency in food operations were key drivers. If we include nonrecurring or noncore items, MINT reported total revenue of THB 42 million for the third quarter, which also marks a 5% increase year-over-year. Reported profit, however, came in at THB 149 million, down from THB 2.1 billion in third quarter '23. This decline was primarily due to noncash accounting impacts from the mark-to-market valuation of our derivative hedging instruments amid significant foreign exchange fluctuations. If you recall, during the quarter, the Thai baht fluctuated sharply, moving 12% against U.S. dollars and 9% against euro in that quarter alone, which affect the valuation of our currency hedging. But it's important to note that this noncore FX loss from hedging does not impact our core operational performance or cash -- real cash profitability as these gain and losses are expected to balance out or zero out when the contracts settle. MINT strategically employs these hedging instruments to manage debt costs across multiple markets, aligning debt currency with income sources to optimize funding expenses. And following the recent weakening of the Thai baht in the fourth quarter to date, this trend has already reversed and we estimate a noncore gain of over THB 600 million for the month of October alone already based on the current derivative positions and recent market movements. This positive trend has continued into November. And if it persists through year-end, there is some possibility that we may be able to offset the mark-to-market derivative losses booked in the first 9 months with gains in the fourth quarter alone. So this might potentially bring our reported profit in line with core profit for the full year. Okay. For 9-month performance in the next slide, we achieved strong growth in both core revenue and core profit, reflecting impact of our strategic focus on driving ADR and occupancy improvement in hotels and positive sales momentum in the restaurant segment. Core revenue up 9% year-on-year and also core profit, we recorded THB 5.5 billion, which is a 19% increase year-on-year. Minor Hotels made up 67% of core net profit with Minor Food contributing 33%. And the gains in core profit were driven by efficiency cost management and strong operational execution in both Hotels and Food segments. For 9-month '24, MINT's reported revenue rose by 10% year-on-year to THB 124 billion. However, report profit -- net profit declined by 7% to THB 4.1 billion, primarily due to accounting impact on our derivative from foreign exchange movement mentioned earlier and other noncore adjustments as well. Again, with the recent weakening of the Thai baht in the fourth quarter to date, we're seeing a reversal of previous FX impacts, and this has led to an estimated noncore gain of over THB 600 million in October alone. And if this trend continue, there's a chance that we might offset the loss booked in the first 9 months, potentially bringing report profit closer to core profit for the full year. Next slide, CapEx. This slide outlines our CapEx plan to support growth with expected spending levels returning to our target of around THB 10 billion annually, plus or minus. In 2024, CapEx has so far been mainly directed towards hotel upgrades and repositioning efforts to enhance room rates and improve asset quality. Approximately 66% of this CapEx is allocated to hotel upgrades with additional investment in hotel expansion, restaurant upgrades and efficiency initiatives. Our CapEx is funded through a combination of operating cash flows and available cash reserves. Please note that the numbers shown here are based on our current 3-year plan. We're now finalizing a new 3-year plan, which will be submitted to the Board next week. We'll provide updated figures once the new plan is approved. Overall, this CapEx approach allow us to drive sustainable growth and operational enhancements across our portfolio, positioning us to boost asset value while seizing emerging opportunities. Next slide. This slide provides an overview of our capital and debt structure as of the third quarter of 2024. We reduced our interest-bearing debt by THB 7.6 billion quarter-on-quarter. However, our equity was slightly lower this quarter, mainly due to foreign exchange impacts and dividend payments. Currently, we hold THB 10 billion in cash and have an additional THB 28 billion in unused credit facilities, giving us strong liquidity. Our total debt is split between floating and fixed rates with 64% in euro and 28% in Thai baht. On the leverage side, our net debt-to-equity ratio is at 0.98, still well below both our internal policy and our debt covenant ratio. The ratio went up slightly from the prior quarter only because lower equity base due to foreign exchange translation impact mentioned earlier. Looking ahead, we're committed to further reducing our leverage ratio, aiming to get as close as possible to our target of 0.8x by year-end, and this will be supported by cash flow from operations and maybe potential upcoming asset sales, which should materialize soon. Next will be our full year business strategy and outlook. Well, I think I'll do this slide. This slide outline our '24 full year and 2025 outlook, highlighting key focus areas on growth and stability. First, lower leverage. We're committed to improving our leverage ratio in late '24 and into '25. This will be achieved through projects that unlock cash while allowing us to retain ownership of key assets. And one major initiative is developing our one of Asia's largest REIT possibly within the next 12 to 18 months, which will reduce leverage and lower our exposure to FX fluctuations. We're trying to address our FX volatility. Recent gains in the Thai baht expect to offset earlier FX loss for 2024, helping align our core and reported earnings for the full year as well. We try to unlock value. Over 50% of our portfolio operates on an asset-light model with nearly 300 hotels in the pipeline. This approach enhances our fee-based income and align us with premium valuation multiples seen in regional and global peers. Revenue and profitability expansion. We're strengthening our Minor Hotel Masterbrand, expanding into new markets like East Asia and Mediterranean. We're also launching new restaurant concepts in major Asian cities, positioning us for accelerated growth. And for long-term growth aspiration by 2026, we're targeting over 780 hotels and more than 3,700 restaurants. We're also exploring innovative business models, including hotel franchises, new soft brands and even luxury cruises. Distinct stock profile will offer a unique investment opportunity by combining the stability of developed markets with the high-growth potential of emerging ones, leveraging synergies for exponential growth. So overall, this strategic road map sets us up for solid growth, profitability and value creation in the years ahead. I think that's pretty much our presentation. Khun Bill will probably come in later on to give some closing remarks. But while waiting for his return, we can open the floor for any Q&A that you may have.

The question from Khun [indiscernible]. How much debt will the company repay in the fourth quarter? And what is the reduction in interest expenses?

Well, again, this depends on cash from operating activities and potential assets, disposal asset sales exercise that we're working on. So the number hasn't been finalized, but we hope to reduce absolute debt level further in fourth quarter '24 as well as our equity base continues to be strengthened by our profits and potentially from the revaluations. So we hope that our net leverage ratio like net interest-bearing debt to equity will come down to close -- to be as close as possible of our targeted 0.8x at year-end.

[Operator Instructions] Another question, how much more margin can the company add to hotel and food unit? And what are the drivers?

Well, we're still looking to expand margins. Like I said, we're working our 3-year plan at the moment, which we will submit to the Board next week. But if you look at our EBITDA margins, we already surpassed 2019 level on a pre-TFRS basis or 17.4% since the year 2023. And the year 2024 has exceeded our expectation and margin has improved beyond that level, beyond the pre-COVID level already. And it will keep expanding in '25, '26, '27, probably by another 100 and 200 bps, we hope on the back of this cost efficiency, operational efficiency, economy of scale, operating leverage and asset-light expansion as well. In terms of NPAT margins, we were getting close on a post-TFRS basis to 2019 level. Once the interest rates coming -- start to come down like late this year or next year, we hope that the interest burden will be alleviated from our P&L.

For 9 months '24 rebranding projects, what is your achievement in terms of ADR and RevPAR growth?

Well, it depends on the different brands. Different brand has different -- the rebranding has a different impact. I can give you some examples. Like for example, when we did NH rebrand to NH Collection, ADR increased over 40% or 45% or NH to Avani, ADR could have been increased by more than 50%. NH Collection to Anantara that we did in the past, in certain cases, more than doubled the ADR increase.

If I may add, the different brands command different room rates. So on average, NH average room rate will have around EUR 100 to EUR 120. NH Collection is actually EUR 160. Anantara, on the other hand, the ADR can range between EUR 320 to EUR 400. And Tivoli, it's about EUR 300. So you can see the gap and the difference between each of the brands' ADRs. And when we convert or rebrand, we can achieve that significant increase. On top of rebranding, we're also doing the asset repositioning. Repositioning by our definition is anything with the investment over than EUR 500,000. And our target ROI for each repositioning would be at least 20%. Next question is about REIT. Could you give more detail on REIT? For example, number of hotels added to REIT? And is this one of the initiatives for lowering net debt to equity to 0.8x?

Well, this is still a plan that we're working on very actively. The size hasn't yet been disclosed, but it will be a Thai REIT or Asian REIT. And when we have more detail, we will share with you.

So I think I can skip another question on REIT because it's similar.

Right, but I would say the size will be relatively large, large enough to reduce our leverage ratio dramatically, but it's probably going to take time. Like I said, it should take -- it will be materialized within the next 12 to 18 months. But when it happened, it will reduce leverage ratio and also will help reduce volatility of any mark-to-market accounting losses that happen with our derivative once our loan has been paid.

Regarding the growth in the hotel business, how sustainable do you think it can be driven by ADR? What is your view if that's a case on saturation or inability to increase the room rate further?

Well, the ADR has been rising quite significantly in the past year or 2, but we just have to bear in mind that, that will become normalized. But having said that, we're still seeing a lot of ongoing demand from both leisure and business sectors. Not only that, we will not only hinge on demand alone, but we also rely on our own effort to decorate and uplift our look and feel of our supply. So that's why repositioning, renovation exercise, rebranding come into play to help us maintain maximizing ADR at the high level still. But -- so we would see that ongoing leisure and business demand, our own effort to uplift our supply to capture high rates and our ability to scale up, expand more hotels and the bottom of hotels that are coming into play, especially under asset-light business models will help us improve our profit still.

Follow-up question. How many assets planned for rebranding and repositioning for 2025? We have planned for 2025, 29 repositioning assets and 1 rebranding, which is the NH in Paris. We are going under the renovation program and one of the assets in Paris would be rebranded from NH to NH Collection.

But having said that, we are still in the middle of doing an exercise to identify more properties to be uplift and rebranded. This is something that we have already identified at this point. As I said, we're in the middle of doing 3-year plan. Once we get the new revised number from the Board, we'll share with you at year-end.

Could please update quarter-to-date same-store sales growth for food unit?

Well, the number that we have for Thailand same-store sales still in October, slightly negative, but total system sales still positive at around like 4%. In Singapore, in October, we saw same-store sales positive of almost 2% and total system sales growth of 8%. So Thailand and Singapore still remain our strong driver for fourth quarter to date, particularly in October. That's the only number that we have in October. In Australia, we see same-store sales, which used to be negative in the past, now become flattish, hover around like 0%. But China is still also still seeing improving trend, same-store sales, the magnitude of negative coming down from double digit to single digit in October alone. So that's only one month stats for food.

Can you guide for Europe and Lat Am occupancy, ADR and RevPAR growth in 2025? What are the drivers even amidst sluggish macro view?

Well, like I said, we try to be conservative. In the past, we see high single digit or even higher than 10% or early teens for Europe. But this next year, we're probably going to be conservatively assuming maybe low to mid-single-digit growth for Europe in terms of RevPAR. But that's on conservative side, keeping in mind that we try to, like I said, seeing ongoing demand and also our effort to uplift supply looking for to capture higher rates. So I think mid-single digit is achievable still.

Is REIT a part of funding for entertainment complex?

We don't have a concrete plan to disclose what projects we're going to execute in the next 2, 3 years inorganically. But like I said, we're open to any opportunities to give us high return. So I would say we will update you more on our new revised CapEx plan and also REIT when it starts to become more concrete in the next few months.

Can you provide more outlook for the fourth quarter of 2024 and the booking stats for the key driver areas, which is entering the high travel season?

For fourth quarter, well, let's start with Europe, occupancy is still up by about 2%, ADR up by 2% to 3% and RevPAR is up by 4% to 5% in October and November on the book -- total revenue on-the-book and November and December, we see growth of high single digit for Europe in terms of total revenue. In Asia, October RevPAR hover around 9% to 10%. In November and December, room revenues hover around like teens in percentage terms. This is on-the-book. Apologize, we're waiting for Khun Bill's closing remarks, but he's engaged in the interview, international media interview live at this point. I think he's running over time. So he didn't get to come back on time here. So I guess my -- well, before we wrap up, my key message is the concern on report profit probably going to be alleviated by the current trend of exchange rates, which will provide us some profitability to recuperate any losses that we made for our derivative fair value adjustments as nonrecurring item loss in the past to be gained in the fourth quarter and full year, probably be better. That's one message. And secondly, leverage ratio, we have some ongoing asset sales exercise in the fourth quarter, it materialized. You're probably going to get our leverage ratio to -- close to 0.8. It might not be like 0.8 on the dot, but it will be -- we will try to get it as close as much as possible. As well as the longer term or medium term, we have this plan on REIT. It will be one of the largest Asia REITs, and that will provide us with proceeds to capital recycling, reduce our debt and reduce the volatility of our P&L as we repay debt as well, but that will be in the medium to long term. Other than that, we still have adhere to our aspiration to grow further. The target of almost 800 hotels or 3,700 restaurants that we gave you today is by 2026. And as I said, we do a new 3-year plan, and we'll give you some more color on 2027 target number, which will be higher than what we currently give you now, and then we will stick with that aspiration to make it materialize and provide us with growth in the future. I guess, well, I apologize, Khun Bill probably not be able to come back on time because he engaged in live media interview at this point, and he's running late. But we're happy to get some of your feedback. Questions later on, send it to our IR department, and we will address every single question of yours. And thank you very much for being with us today, and I hope you have a good day. Thank you.