MKS Inc. (MKSI) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hi, good morning, everyone. My name is Amanda Scarnati. I'm one of the semiconductor analysts here at Citi. I'm joined this morning by Seth Bagshaw, the CFO of MKS Instruments; and David Ryzhik, the Director of Investor Relations. I have a bunch of prepared questions, but feel free to click that submit question button on the link, and I'll be happy to ask some investor follow-up questions a little bit later on in the session. Seth, I believe you have some prepared remarks you'd like to dive into before we jump into the questions. So I will pass the floor over to you.

Great. Thank you, Amanda, and good morning, everyone. Thank you for the opportunity to have a fireside chat here at the Citi conference. Yes, I'll just cover like 5 minutes opening comments on MKS for those who're not familiar with MKS as a company. So we are a lead enabler of next-generation technologies. We've got a 60-year history of successful innovation. We've grown organically and through acquisitions. I mean probably the broadest -- we believe the broadest base of capabilities and products across our portfolio. We're -- about 60% of our revenue is tied to the semicap industry, but any chip in the world that's manufactured today, we believe, uses MKS's equipment. We are a key enabler for all the major transition in technology nodes. In addition to that, we've got about 40% of our revenue in what we call Advanced Markets, and they are exposed, we call advanced technologies, think of smartphones, think of PCB, advanced PCB manufacturing, industrial, life, health science and research and defense markets. Our story is relatively simple at a high level. We look at trends in the semi industry for the last number of decades with Moore's Law and miniaturization and complexity. And those trends are only continuing. So that's been our sweet spot since our formation. In the semi world, again, we enable new advanced applications and the complexity miniaturization is an enabler for our technology and kind of how we enable that industry. But more importantly, we saw the same trends in other Advanced Markets probably 5 or 6 years ago. Within the -- our laser and optics portfolio, the pulsed laser capability we brought to the marketplace enables unique applications that, again, are driven by miniaturization and complexity. We can manufacture flexible PCB products using lasers that can drill 5,000 vias a second, very high precision, 35 microns in diameter. Those trends are extending to a number of the markets that we play in. We recently announced an acquisition, company called Atotech, a publicly traded company out of Berlin. Atotech is a global leader in the process chemistry, and they have a very strong leading presence in printed circuit board chemistry that really essential for smartphones and other advanced electronics. They broaden our expertise in chemistry. It's a highly complementary business to our laser-based processing capabilities, our E&S division. It allows MKS to bring all of the requirements to optimize the interconnect in a chip, if you will, so it enables -- chips to be more effective, it enables us to have higher connectivity and improve the performance of those chips. So together, having that capability under one house, we think will add a lot of capabilities to our customers going forward. And then lastly, on our track record, we've historically grown stronger than WFE, a 200 basis point improvement over the long term -- in the last 5 years, with 20% top line growth on CAGR and the revenue and about 25% CAGR growth on earnings per share. We invest the majority of our cash flow into growth opportunities, primarily organic R&D efforts as well as acquisitions, we're a very accretive company. And we've also grown the dividend in the same time frame as well. We think the cash returned to shareholders is a good proof statement of our confidence in our operating model going forward. So we think we're in a great position to position ourselves to capitalize on mega trends in the future on the semi side. In the Advanced Markets, multiple drivers we have to grow our business. And with that, I'll turn it over to Amanda for Q&A.

Perfect. Thanks for that overview, Seth. Let's dive into the semiconductor side of the business, still the largest piece of the portfolio. You outgrew the WFE market by about 2x last year. Do you think that you can outgrow WFE again this year in 2021? Or do you think that there was some sense of inventory build and maybe that growth rate of 2x is slowing down a bit?

Yes. Great question. Yes. So in our Analyst Day in December, we did reiterate our long-term growth trajectory in WFE, and I mentioned that before, is our goal is to grow at least 200 basis points above WFE throughout the cycle. So it's kind of a multiyear period. Typically, what happens is when you have a major semi ramp, we'll probably outperform that because our customers will resize their inventory levels. And then when you have a slowdown in the semi industry, there'll be headwinds for the same reason. But fundamentally, we believe we'll outgrow WFE by 200 basis points throughout the cycle. And the reason we think that's the case is we gained classic market share. We were very transparent in our Q2 call, talking about market share gains that VLSI had published. And thinking of the RF power piece of our business, we gained over 10 points of market share last year, in calendar year in 2020. The number of the investments we made multiple years ago to take advantage of an opportunity we saw in the memory 3D NAND market. And our RF power products enable high aspect ratio etch to enable that product being produced. So trends like that are very important for us. We also are looking to -- or investing into world-class optics in the Light and Motion Division. Announced newer design wins there as well. Key customers there, all the major OEMs we ship to Applied, Lam, Tokyo Electron, KLA and ASML. So we're well exposed in the overall marketplace. But that's been our long-term goal to outperform WFE. Our history demonstrates we have done that. We talked about market share gains again in last calendar year and multiyear effort to grow that business above WFE. And so we feel very confident we will overachieve throughout the cycle at that level.

As you look at your growth specifically then in, I guess, 2021, I don't know if you've put out specific targets related to how you think the second half is going to perform. Others are saying potentially 2 halfs stronger than half and growth kind of continuing there. Your revenue has been maybe a little bit more stable, a little bit more growthy than some other players in the component space. How are you looking at sort of that 2 half versus 1 half stance?

Yes. So we've had -- out to the semi side of the business, we had a really strong first half of the calendar year, for sure. We did announce in the third -- second quarter earnings call, our third quarter guidance was a little bit of headwinds due to some COVID-related shutdowns in Southeast Asia. So we would have had a sequential increase in revenue in the third quarter weren't for that headwinds. Overall business remained very robust. So we're pretty optimistic that this will be a strong year for us in 2021 on the semi side of our business. We're also very happy to announce on the Advanced Markets, last quarter was a record for MKS. And what drove that, there are a number of different growth drivers. Certainly, we've got past some of the COVID-19 headwinds for our research in life and health science markets. Those are back to virtually pre-COVID-19 levels, that's very encouraging. But also in the second quarter, we had -- were exposed to the 5G rollout in a number of ways. And one of the bigger exposures for us is our E&S division, again, makes laser-based products that enable flexible PCB manufacturing. And so we believe that a high-end, 5G phone has about 30% more content for flex PCB than a 4G phone, for example. We're in the early stages of that rollout. So last quarter, in the second quarter, E&S division had almost $100 million revenue quarter, which is the highest quarter we've had since we acquired that company back in February of 2019, very strong operating margins as well. So we're very optimistic that semi continued for a while, all those growth drivers that we've historically seen are well in place, the Advanced Markets have come back for sure from COVID-19 kind of depressed levels, again, a record for us in Q2. So there will be some seasonality typically in the back half of a calendar year for some of our Advanced Markets. The Equipment and Solutions Division usually has a front-end loaded first half of the year. Capacity adds on in the industry. So it'll be a little bit slower in the third quarter. But this has been a fantastic year for us. We've had record quarters in the last 4 or 5 quarters, very strong operating results, and we're actually ahead of our operating model in Q1 and Q2 of this year as well.

Let's just switch gears back to semiconductors, and then we'll jump back over to Advanced Markets in a little bit. Semiconductor shortage is sort of the topic du jour, everyone is talking about it, it's well known in the industry. We've been hearing more about shortages leaking over into the equipment space and some difficulty completing certain tools. Others in the component space talking about supply shortages, but were set up really good for next year. What is MKSI seeing in regards to shortages coming in and being able to complete your components then leading over to what your customers are doing as well?

Yes. It's a very common question, obviously, talking to investors. I think we're probably perhaps a little better off than some other companies that have been talking about this. But our exposure -- our challenge in this quarter has been, again, primarily Malaysia, Southeast Asia. And it really happened in kind of that second or third week in July, where unfortunately due to COVID outbreaks, the local government has really put a hard shutdown on a lot of our supply chain providers in Malaysia. We don't have any manufacturing footprint per se, [ and guess is not ], but we have some supply chain based out of Malaysia. And our thinking was those suppliers would be ultimately deemed "essential manufacturers" for opening up, and that did occur. And that was part of our thinking and the teams are working very hard to get everybody vaccinated to make sure the employees are safe. So that's what we've seen and experienced. Again, it kind of happened in the July time frame, that's why it affected our Q3 guidance a little bit. The good news, too, is that supply chain constraint we saw in Malaysia only affects a portion of our semi business in the Vacuum and Analysis division. The Light and Motion and E&S divisions are not affected by these shutdowns in Malaysia. So we're working through that, I think, pretty effectively. Our teams are pretty motivated, obviously, and working closely with local authority and suppliers. I think it's also important to know we take great pride in execution. I think we have a world-class operations team, supply chain team. One example if you look at our semi revenue on the V&A division, like Q4 of '19 versus Q2 of '21, we're up about 75% quarter-over-quarter. So we have ramped the business quite substantially. We're working very hard to keep our customers' lines up and running, and we're kind of very effective in that area as well. It's hard to say when these will all -- when the supply chain constraints will work themselves out. I think it's going to depend on a lot of things outside of our control. But again, we have good rapport with our suppliers, good rapport with our customers. And I think on average, we're probably better off than some other companies that have a larger footprint in Southeast Asia.

You highlighted margins just a few minutes ago. You're one of the very few semi companies that have actually been able to improve margins this year despite some of these COVID costs, despite some of these supply chain issues. How have you been able to improve both gross and operating margins? And how sustainable are these sort of new levels that you're at?

Yes. Yes, good question. So it's part of our DNA. We've done this -- we call it a kind of internal profit and cash recovery process. And what it really comes down to is, it's an executive-sponsored group of senior management meet on a regular basis, every month on our monthly cadence, but more frequently in between those standing meetings. And they report to John Lee, our CEO. And it was set up back probably 2014 by Jerry Colella, our current Chairman of the Board. It's really a very effective process. So it has every functional group represented, has every operations team represented and we really have come up with new ideas to make the company more efficient and more effective. And they could be supply chain initiatives, there could be some operational pricing increases, it could be certain sourcing in low-cost countries, but there's a lot of back-office operations as well. So I think that -- in my experience, it's a unique process. I've worked some very effective companies prior to coming to MKS. I think this is a unique opportunity we have, and we've been very successful. And it's kind of embedded in our DNA and it's -- we do an acquisition, we kind of roll that process into the acquisition companies as well, and they do a great job running with it and come back with their own opportunities. And it tends to offset inflationary pressure and provides some additional headroom to do target investments in various areas. So that's really part of our DNA. That's what we've done. One quick example, I know there's a lot of pressure on logistics costs. We kicked off a process probably over 2 years ago to optimize our logistics costs around the company, fewer providers, really ship pallets that are full and not partial pallets. So lot of the basic block and tackling that you want to do in that type of functional area. And that's kind of offset, frankly, our logistics cost increase that other companies are experiencing. So it's, again, a very unique process, very effective. We've talked about in, again, our operating model a 50% variable gross margin and a 40% variable operating margin, that was back in December Analyst Day. That's kind of how we look at our business. We've actually exceeded that in Q1 and Q2. And so that's kind of been the result of our efforts. There will be, I think, some inflationary pressure going forward. It's always challenging to find direct labor and some of the labor costs. But we kind of, again, have a good process to kind of manage that and been pretty effective in the past to offset the inflationary pressures.

Switching gears quickly over to the ESI business, right? You mentioned you entered 2021 with strong momentum. March quarter saw a 13% sequential growth, followed by 31% sequential growth in the June quarter. Can you just talk a little bit about what that momentum was that drove sort of this strong growth in the first half? And you talked about more first half loaded than second half loaded. But what is sort of the run rate that we should look at for this business?

Yes. So -- yes, great question. We acquired ESI, E&S division, again back in February of 2019. And if you look at the history in the prior couple of calendar years, ESI had very high revenue levels. There -- we know and we confirm there was a fair amount of excess capacity with the marketplace in those periods. So there's a little bit of digestion post acquisition, which we think has kind of worked itself through right now. So we're just kind of seeing real end demand. We've also, in certain select cases, have exited certain products in that division, which were not meeting our -- really not meeting our objectives for growth and profitability and consumed some resources. So that comparison on that 2018-2017 time frame has those adjustments in there. But if you look at kind of where we are today, the first half of this year, 2021, was a real strong year for E&S. And I mentioned in the Q2 time frame, revenue was about $100 million. What I think we're seeing there is a more normalized trend in the flex PCB market, which is good. And I also mentioned before is when you look at the 5G rollout, there's much more flex content in a high-end 5G phone than a comparative 4G phone, about 30% more. So that's driving the E&S division as well. If you look at the back half of the E&S division, I said before, most of the demand -- most of the order rates are typically front half of a calendar year focused. We saw a good demand in Q4 of last calendar year into Q1 of this year and Q2. But the revenue typically is more front-end loaded to build capacity for smartphone production in the latter part of the year. So we expect a little bit of a classic softening in Q3, maybe about a $50 million run rate for that business. But the overall market that we serve is probably about a $200 million flex PCB market on a normalized basis. We have quite high share that we won in that marketplace. And then the HDI opportunity, high-density interconnect, is about a $500 million a year market, into that a couple of years ago, and that's an opportunity where we think our goal is to gain 5% or 10% share over a multiyear period. Now we have tools -- HDI tools are in high-volume manufacturing today. So we're trending along the plans we've mentioned before. So that's an opportunity for us to greenfield to drive more revenue in the E&S division. I think the last point I'll make is the Atotech acquisition has, I mentioned before, the chemistry capability. The E&S division does laser-based processing for flexible PCBs as well as for the HDI market. Having that material processing capability in-house with the enabling chemistry capability will allow us to develop products and solutions much more fast as a collective company. So that's where really the overlap is on the Atotech acquisition and really the E&S division. We think we can add a lot of value for our customers and accelerate revenue growth for both companies. We're really excited about the acquisition to bring that capability to MKS. It also adds about a $4 billion additional TAM to MKS.

Let's just continue on the Atotech topic. Obviously, this is a very different area for MKS. Materials is not something that MKS is known for. You're known for more sort of the parts and the componentry. How does adding sort of this third product area change the dynamic at MKS? And could it create somewhat of sort of a distraction or change looking at materials versus components?

Yes. Well, it's on the same theme. If you come back to the overriding driver for our strategy, it's really looking at trends in miniaturization and complexity. And I said before is Moore's Law is the poster child for that in the semiconductor space, obviously, over many, many decades. And certainly, recently, you see much more capital intensity and much more complexity, much more difficult solutions required to develop next-generation chips. Again, smaller and faster is kind of theme there. Then you look at the other companies we acquired, Newport Corporation and ESI, they're all the same themes. Again, if you look at miniaturization, if you look at complexity, you have pulsed lasers that again open up applications or use cases that can't be done any other way today. You can pulse a laser 1 billion times a second, you can have a very high throughput, very compelling cost of ownership. You open up applications in that market, you could not -- it could not be done any other way. So the same theme as semiconductor and Moore's Law, complexity and miniaturization. ESI is a classic use case for that, again, using system -- laser-based systems to drill flexible PCB in HDI market. The Atotech acquisition is just an extension upon that miniaturization and complexity theme. Again, if you optimize the interconnect, it's like the highway -- if you've got an automobile -- that go 200 miles an hour, but you can only run on a road that can only go 25 miles an hour, you're really leaving a lot of that capability not being usable. It's the same thing with the interconnect. If you don't have the right connectivity, you don't have the right [ conductivity ], you've got a chip that can do a lot of processing power, but it cannot be optimized without the interconnect being correctly optimized as well. It's like a road and a car and how you really get the best out of the whole bundle and the whole package. So we really view that the chemistry, the interconnect and electronics piece of the business is really the next frontier to kind of accelerate that miniaturization and complexity. So that's our strategy behind the acquisition. When you come back to how we're going to run that acquisition, the team is -- the Atotech team is very strong, very experienced. They've gone through a sponsored acquisition from Total out of France. They've gone through an -- built a public company infrastructure, they've gone public. It's a very experienced team. Very good at what they do. They are a leader in that industry. And our goal would be, obviously, give them the tools so they can be even more successful under the MKS umbrella. And again, having the expertise on the chemistry side to the laser-based process under one corporate umbrella, we can kind of share those ideas, share chemistry impact on materials processing, we think we'll add a lot of value to our end customers. So it may appear to be a chemistry company in a classic sense, but it's really an extension of kind of miniaturization and complexity. We had the same question when we bought Newport Corporation, a laser-based company. We're more known for semicap company. I think we have the ability to really leverage what we can bring to the table as MKS and also take the best out of the acquisition and make 2 plus 3 equals 5. So we're very excited about the acquisition. We're looking forward to closing that and kind of team together and working for really tough customer solutions that will add a lot of value to the marketplace.

Can you just remind us how the regulatory process is proceeding and when the expected close is?

Yes. So we've said -- we announced the transaction I think July 1, and we said at that point in time, we expect to close by the end of the calendar year 2021 and still are thinking today. What has to occur is the regulatory approval for classic antitrust in a number of jurisdictions. We have done that many times before with other acquisitions. We've got good advisers. There's really no classic overlap between MKS and Atotech. So we think the regulatory approval should go relatively smoothly. But it will depend on when the regulators come back with their final approval. That's always hard to predict. But our goal -- our still -- our thought process today and goal is to close by the end of the fourth quarter. There will be a shareholder vote on the Atotech side. I think it will occur in the next several months. I think that will -- it's the last customary-type approval required. But once we clear all the regulatory approval, we will be okay -- we will be all set to close.

And what sort of synergies do you expect to see in the model from this?

Yes. So it's interesting. So we -- if you look at Atotech, so they -- they're a public company, they report under IFRS. And so we posted a deck, again in the July time frame, that kind of converts the last 12 months through June 30, Atotech's external financials into a U.S. GAAP equivalent compared to MKS. And the reason I say that, if you look at kind of that U.S. GAAP equivalent, the last 12 months through June 30, Atotech's gross margins were north of 50%. So again, they would be accretive to the MKS model, which I think was a pretty strong model to begin with. And then the EBITDA margins are also accretive as well. So it just reiterates how valuable Atotech is to their customer base and the technology and solutions they provide are actually valued by the marketplace and they're paid accordingly. So it will be accretive to our operating model on a go-forward basis. The other thing we mentioned, too, is if you look on, again, a pro forma basis through June 30, we'll be a $4.1 billion combined company, again, accretive gross margins and EBITDA margins. But equally important, if you look at the mix of that revenue, about 40% of that $4.1 billion would be more in that recurring sticky revenue we call it. So it would be the chemistry side of the business, Atotech, if you will, then combining with the MKS service business, that's about a -- 40% of the overall $4.1 billion. And the key point there is, it wasn't why we acquired the company or desired to acquire the company, but it's an additive stability to our operating model going forward. In fact, look back in 2019, where there was a semi small air pocket, Atotech actually grew in that same time frame. So if they had been part of MKS, we would've had had a dampening effect there in our operating model. And again, strong cash flow coming off both businesses, so…

Let's jump back to the Advanced Markets that we sort of took a little pause on earlier. Seeing some continued growth throughout the first half of the year, it started back in December of last year and then that growth has accelerated. Outside of sort of the smartphone business PCB stuff that we talked about, what else is driving some of this acceleration in demand? And is there anything else driving some of that seasonal down outside of again that PCB side of the business?

Yes. Great question. Yes. So again, last quarter, Q2 was a record quarter for Advanced Markets, I mentioned it in my earlier remarks. And then the bigger driver in that was, again, the flex PCB first half year acceleration. And again, we had real strong E&S division in the second quarter, again, about $100 million of revenue. And again, we think seasonally we'd be down about $50 million range in Q2. So maybe a little bit of a step down in the Advanced Markets. And that's, again, a very typical seasonality in that business. And then you look at the other portion of Advanced Markets, I mentioned before, life, health sciences, research and defense, those are back to kind of the pre-COVID levels of growing actually from those levels. And then more GDP-type growth, good steady business, good cash flow and good operating margins. And then the -- within the other portion of Advanced Markets, we call Advanced Electronics, we're seeing good traction in precision laser processing. I mentioned the pulsed laser capability to bring to the marketplace, different categories in terms of wavelength and pulsing capability. And again, that kind of just dovetails again with the vision around complexity, miniaturization being very important. So really the bigger driver is probably the flex market in the first half of the year, again, a little more seasonality softening in Q3, Q4. But overall, it'll be a real strong year for the E&S division. And then the other markets come back pre-COVID and then grown and lever into that precision laser-based processing capabilities is the other kind of leg in the growth in the Advanced Markets.

The other topic that you talked about a little bit earlier was on the semiconductor power side, the RF power side. It's had significant records last year and gained significant share according to industry growth targets. How are you really gaining the share against competitors? And is there an instance where you gained significant share last year, but that share can shift as different products come in throughout the cycle?

Yes. Yes. It's something talked a lot about in the public realm. And -- so what we -- what MKS does is we have, I think, a unique way of looking ahead in the marketplace. We have a lot of inputs. We've got a good sales force, marketing team, we've got product group managers. All of those are interacting with the marketplace and different customers. But I think what's a little bit unique is, we don't have one Chief Technology Officer, one CTO. We've got multiple CTOs sitting in multiple product groups. And so what that does for us, it allows us to, we believe, look around corners and get a -- get kind of an early view on trends in the marketplace. So I can say skate where the puck is going to be, if you will. So that's kind of one way we look at emerging trends. The R&D dollars are well funded across all the product groups, but there are certain areas we'd like to lever into because of these opportunities come up and become available. And the RF power is a really good classic example of what occurred there. So if you go back a number of years ago, probably 4 or 5 years ago, we saw an opportunity in the RF Power segment where we can enable 3D NAND manufacturing process. So that's obviously a big growth driver. And because of our breadth and depth of capability, we were able to add a lot of engineering talent on the front end. Now sometimes you do this and you add a lot of capabilities, it's a little bit of a bet on that to come and sometimes you hit a dry hole, sometimes you hit singles, doubles. In this case, we kind of hit a home run, obviously. But we invested in that piece of the business and worked closely with our major customers and developed a capability that no one else had in the marketplace. So we knew where the market was going, we saw an opportunity, we invested in it, and we're closer to the end customer, designed the right capability to meet the market requirements. And so it's all based on capability, on relationships and being credible in C-level interaction, has a lot of oversight here with MKS, and the engineering product development team just did a great job. And we talked about a number of design wins over a multiple-year period, and then what happened in calendar year 2020, we let VLSI come out with the externally published data to support what we've been telling investors all along we're gaining share in RF power. So last year, in 2020, we were virtually neck and neck with the market leader in RF power supplies. If you look back 2 years prior, we were probably a distant #2 -- strong #2 but distant. So we've really gained a lot of traction there. All these -- all this share gain is based on design wins that happened over multiple years. And for those of you who know the semicap space very well, when you're -- when you have a copy exact requirement once you're designed in, you're on that tool until the next-generation tool comes out. So to really answer your question, we don't think there's a -- we think this is a very sticky business. Once you're designed in, you'll keep that business. To keep it, you have to be investing and having next-generation tools, next-generation products. We do that all day long across the whole semi platform. So I feel very good about maintaining this market share going forward. And 3D NAND has been a big growth driver for us for that reason. We also gained share in other parts of the business as well. We outlined in the Q2 call, but the RF power was the biggest share gain. And again, it was part of a multiyear strategy that we saw an opportunity that we invested in and obviously became very compelling for our customer and for our -- and also uptick for our business. There are a number of other areas doing the same thing. With the Light and Motion division, we're investing -- we call it world-class optics. That's again support the ASML and KTs of the world. We're investing in engineering talent there. We're investing in manufacturing capabilities. We'll do the same thing in other parts of our Advanced Market portfolio. So I think bottom line, it comes back to being a little -- having the ability to make these type of bets, having the ability to see where the market's going. Execution has been excellent. And there will be cases when these things become very compelling opportunities. And it's really one of the linchpins behind us outgrowing WFE by 200 basis points over the long term. This is, again, one of the legs we use to kind of generate that outsized growth going forward as well.

Perfect. Well, we're just about out of time. Seth, do you want to leave us with some final thoughts, perhaps the key takeaways for MKSI?

Yes. No, thank you for the opportunity, Amanda, and for people listening on the call. I think kind of the key takeaways, just at a high level is, again, we are at the forefront of miniaturization and complexity in both the semiconductor and we call Advanced Markets. So that's a common theme across all of our strategic activities, both M&A -- internal capital allocation M&A reallocation. We're a global leader in the semiconductor industry. Any chip in the world that's manufactured we touch. And again, we talk about share gains and kind of how well exposed there as well. And then we think the next frontier miniaturization will be this interconnect where Atotech is going to add a lot of value to our portfolio and really excited by having that team join us, really excited about having that capability. And we really can't wait for that deal to close and bring everybody into one corporate umbrella. And then it kind of lastly, comes back to our overall strong financial model. If you look at our results historically, our operating model, Atotech will be accretive, we believe, going forward. It's just again kind of a proof statement of the value we provide to our marketplace. So with that, I'll end it there. And again, I want to thank everybody for their attention. And thanks, again, Amanda, for the opportunity.

Perfect. Thanks so much. Have a great day.

Yes. Thanks, Amanda.