MLP SE (MLP) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon, and welcome to MLP SE's annual analyst conference regarding our business development in 2021. My name is Andreas Herzog. I would also like to welcome the CEO of MLP, Dr. Uwe Schroeder-Wildberg, as well as our CFO, Reinhard Loose. Before we move straight into our business development, please allow me a brief comment on our agenda and our new video conference format. Following the presentations by Uwe and Reinhard, you will also have the opportunity to ask your questions. You can submit them during the presentations. [Operator Instructions] Thank you for your patience. Let us move on to the interesting topics, and I would now like to hand over to Uwe.

Yes. Thank you, Andreas, and a warm welcome also from my side, ladies and gentlemen. We are reporting our financial figures of the year 2021 and our recent and planned business development today. Facing our strong achievements, it should have been a very joyful day. But, and please allow me this personal remark, it feels rather strange to speak about business in these states. The war in Ukraine, an unspeakable distress to the people of Ukraine, women, men and even children has casted a shadow over everything in our daily lives. And it affects our hearts to see the strong and imperturbable will fight for their freedom and their independence. I'm personally glad that Germany is backing Ukraine unambiguous and is engaged in the far-reaching measures against aggressive war of the Russian President as a part of a wide international community. We are all aware that these geopolitical turning point will have massive effects on society and economy. But I'm also convinced that we will find our way as long as we stay open-minded for necessary changes and a strong will to work even harder. Now it's difficult coming now to our business results. We have seen -- we have worked for a very exceptional successful year with regards to the results and perhaps even more important to the further development of MLP Group. We, and many of you have followed us for years, delivered a consequent transformation from a broker serving private clients, mainly in old-age provisioning to a strong and really unique group pillared on attractive customer segments like private mass affluent customers, high net worth, institutional corporates and even our growing B2B business. Whatever we did and whatever will be done has a clear purpose and follow strictly our mission to work in the best interest of our customers and to help them to make better financial decisions. The year 2021 is our way of transformation and development, a very successful interim step. Related to that, I would like to remind you to the beginning of the year 2020, at this time, we disclosed our, in these days, midterm ambitious planning for 2022. Some of you, if you reminded, classify that as even very ambitious. Today, we can clearly state we are on track and perhaps a little bit more than just being on track. Let me point out now the most -- 3 most important highlights of this year 2021. The total revenues increased in the eighth year of succession to a new all-time high of EUR 934.5 million. That means compared to the year 2020, a growth and more than 20%, and this is the most important message, a clear indication of steadily growing trust of our customers and new trust of new customers. And second, despite all these challenging framework conditions I will highlight later again, the earnings before interest and taxes or EBIT was significantly above previous year's level, with EUR 96.8 million after EUR 59.4 million of '22 (sic) [ '20 ]. And therefore, having in mind what we build up, for sure, also with some respect of the risks of future, especially in these days, we propose a strong dividend growth to EUR 0.30 per share after the EUR 0.23 we have seen in '22. All these results are as a result of successful development, a consequence of our strategic development in the last years. And also, result is that we extended value creation within the MLP Group. And remember, if I speak about 10 years or even 15 years, it was not a time frame or a decade of tailwind, was much of a headwind we have seen. It was corona. We had ongoing pressure of regulation. We have the market crisis in 2008. Now new issues coming up like inflation scenarios or even [indiscernible] of war, I just mentioned, in Ukraine. This was what we had, more had been than tailwind. But nevertheless, we did our work. And so we shaped out the group as it is today, and we're starting to benefit more and more. In such a phase where you have a lot of tailwind, it's very important that you have internal clarity, what you want to do. You have a strong belief, what to do, and a clear compass not to lose any orientation on your way. And so part of this is that we clearly have a position we want to work on the side in the best interest of our customers. We know that we are serving in a highly demand money environment. Financial services is a highly demand environment, so it's clear also you need cooperative forms, you need work sharing. And last, but not least, you have to use also the opportunities the more digital life's world is offering you. This was part of our genetic footprint and will be also part of our future. And therefore, we have now what we can see here. We have very strong brands in their respective business fields. As you remember, we started with TPC or broker for occupational pension schemes in 2004. In the meantime, we were the biggest German broker. We bought FERI in 2006 to improve and increase our competency in the wealth management sector and also to enter new customer groups. We went ahead with DOMCURA. We want to have with DEUTSCHLAND.Immobilien and last but not least, with RVM. So for sure, this is a strong message on its own, but for sure, we have to develop. And therefore, also digitalization is one of the key success factors, which improves customer service, but for sure, also efficiency. Some examples are, for example, the TPC portal. That's a very digital solution for companies and employees to do their occupational pension schemes purely online, which is very helpful to reduce cost and to be much more convenient on the other side or our efforts with MLP choice to serve those customers more smarter and more efficient. We have less contact with advisers, mainly in the pure insurance part. Very important, more and more as we go to the left side is to use the network to work together to use the knowledge and know-how we have in the group and to expand the business relations, which are part of each member of the group. There are many good examples in the meantime. For example, if MLP advisers have more complex questions of customers and higher volumes in wealth management, they can ask a colleague of FERI to join the desk and to work out the best solution for our customers. So we entered new possibilities in a very significant way. Or MLP and TPC former students in the meantime, decision-makers in companies having the decision power about occupational pension schemes was a perfect entry to them, and then we can -- MLP advisers can join with TPC experts, consultants to work on the right pension plans. Or last but not least, and there are many more examples, RVM and TPC working exactly in the same customer group, corporates. And for sure, it's clear that we can use relationships on both sides also to work on the cross-selling field. So just a few examples. The big message is we believe that in this business, we are -- it's very complex. It's just possible to be at the state of the art if you are using a network and this is what we have built up in the recent years. And the payout is very visible, as you have just seen, with ongoing improvement of our customer service and we have an ongoing improvement of the turnover, which is just a result, outcome of growing trust of customers, and for sure, very important in the bottom line, ongoing profitability. And I love to see my CFO smiling when I'm saying that. So before I want to hand over to Reinhard, I would like to use the opportunity to thank the fabulous MLP team, so with more than 4,000 members of the group in the meantime to do again a fabulous job in 2021. It was not easy. But with our clear view on the priority to be very close to our customers, we managed a fantastic year. So thank you very much, so we're looking forward for the next steps in the future. So now I'll hand over to Reinhard. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Uwe, and also a warm welcome from my side. Following a highly dynamic fourth quarter, total revenue rose by 22% to EUR 934.5 million, setting a new all-time high. This means that MLP has now recorded continuous growth in total revenue for 8 years in a row. At EUR 894.6 million, commission income, comprising commission income and fees increased significantly and represent the greatest share of this positive development. In terms of the closing quarter, the increase was 24%. In the last financial year, MLP was able to generate growth in all fields of consulting. Having enjoyed 12 years of growth in succession, wealth management is again the largest consulting field on an annual basis. This is the result of highly positive development in MLP's private client business and also at FERI. Alongside excellent operational development among both private and institutional clients with significantly higher performance-based compensation already mentioned, also made a key contribution to this. In fact, these generated revenue of EUR 66.9 million for the financial year. However, I would like to stress that here that achieving this level of revenue was definitely not a forgone conclusion. Above-average performance of wealth concepts is what made this possible. For the fourth year in a row, real estate brokerage delivered the greatest percentage growth with revenue up 59% to around EUR 62.8 million. MLP has been expanding its activities in this field since 2014. We were thus able to continue and further expand the significant growth already recorded in previous quarters in this consulting field. Indeed, the 59 percentage increase in revenue, following one from the 39% recorded after the first 6 months and 53% after the first 9 months of the year once again underlines the importance of real estate for our clients and that more and more consultants are successfully positioning this as part of the full scope client consulting service. At the same time, the project business that is successfully operated by our subsidiary, DEUTSCHLAND.Immobilien, made a significant contribution. At 15%, we also recorded a significant increase in revenue from loans and mortgages. This is due to the ongoing high demand for real estate. According to information provided by the [indiscernible], the average purchase price across all categories in Germany rose to EUR 3,140 per square meter in 2021. In comparison with 2020, this development has therefore been further reinforced. We also enjoyed strong development in old-age provision. Following the declines recorded throughout 2020, due to the effects of the coronavirus pandemic, revenue rose by 13% over the same period in the previous year. This, too, is the result of intensive client consulting. The strong closing quarter, with an increase of 15% over the previous year's figure, also made a key contribution to this. The gains realized in the financial year came as well from the fields of private and also from occupational pension provision. In the case of the latter, the situation was particularly challenging in the same period of 2020, as many employers were clearly facing different challenges and had other priorities during the stage of the coronavirus pandemic. We are, therefore, all the more delighted to return to our growth path in this field. The fields of non-life insurance and health insurance both recorded also gains in the last financial year. The MLP Group was serving 562,300 family clients as of the 31st of December with 21,100, the gross number of newly acquired family clients, was well above the previous year's figure. We also served 24,800 corporate and institutional clients, which represents yet another important increase. We already offered you a first glimpse of the additional potential that this holds within our group early on. Please now allow me to move on to the income statement on Slide 7 of the presentation. As already mentioned, with an EBIT of EUR 906.8 million, we recorded an unexpectedly significant increase over the previous year's figure. Group net profit rose to EUR 62.8 million in the last financial year. You can find the most important financial key figures from the balance sheet on the next page. Accordingly, the equity ratio as of the 31st of December was 13.4%. The return on equity is 13.8%, which is more than 3.9 percentage points above the previous year's figures. And our core capital ratio on the reporting date was 17.9%. In summary, we are on a strong economic footing in the group. The positive development in the MLP Group, our strong economic basis and our confidence in the future are also expressed in the dividend proposal by the Executive Board. Indeed, the dividend payout is set to be EUR 0.30 per share. Following on from EUR 0.23 for the financial year 2020 and EUR 0.21 for 2019, this represents yet another significant increase. At 52% of group net profit, the payout ratio is within the announced corridor. As such, we are once again allowing our shareholders to participate appropriately in the excellent development our company has enjoyed. We've also launched another share buyback program. In the period since January 3, we have acquired 442,000 shares with a total value of EUR 3.6 million on the stock exchange, which we'll use for our participation program for MLP branch office managers and MLP consultants. By taking this step, we are keen to further strengthen the collaborative component in our business model. Finally, please allow me to say a few words on our share price. The capital market has not only honored the excellent development we recorded over the course of the last financial year but is also increasingly recognizing our growth prospects. A price increase of almost 60% in 2021 and the positive feedback from numerous capital market conferences clearly demonstrate this. The average upside target for our share of the analyst tracking our performance is now in the double-digit range and, therefore, offers further potential. To offer a brief summary at this point, we have recently shown that we can create value for the shareholders, not only through our dividend, but also our share price performance. This should remain even if global stock markets suffered major temporary setbacks. Please now join me in welcoming Uwe Schroeder-Wildberg again, who will talk more about how we intend to continue along this successful path. Uwe?

Yes. Thank you, Reinhard. Thank you very much. Yes, and the capital markets have also already perceived our targets and achievements in our sustainability management, which is getting more and more important. And when I'm saying that, it's I think very important also to understand, it's not just because we have to report about this, because we are clearly convinced to every member of the group that you have to contribute to transform our economy to more sustainability to less emissions of CO2, and this is our strong belief. And therefore, we are working also all what we have to invest. So therefore, for example, we are now climate neutral for '22. We switched our whole entire energy supply to renewable energies. We worked about our mobility concepts and whatever. So we just launched our new dedicated sustainability policy for the MLP Group. We already in 2022 achieved the prime status of ISS, so we are under 10% of best 10% of our benchmark group in the sector. It means also for those investors, a growing number of investors who are looking on these aspects, we think we should be of interest as a company and as an investment. And that's a very important part for the future. We are seeing that in all our customer groups that this question is more and more relevant also for financial advice. And that means also for sure, with our competency, with our educational capabilities, with our freedom as a broker to work also on these aspects with our product partners, I think we are in the best position to be a very relevant player for our customers who have more and more discretion what is sustainable, where can I invest. What is important for me? What are risks behind that? What are the possible returns? And this requires a lot of insights and knowledge, and therefore, we are preparing. So we see here also a strategic potential to strengthen our position even more in the forthcoming years. One of the major achievements of our strategy is the steady growth of stability, for sure also measured in the number of recurring revenues. And therefore, there are 2 figures which are quite prominent, to illustrate that is on the left hand, the assets under management, which grew up to over EUR 56.6 million, as Reinhard mentioned. This is, for sure, an incredible number. Nobody would have believed it 10 years ago, and we are now, in the meantime, more or less comparable to the big German private banks. It happened because FERI delivered very strong in their customer growth, new customers, increasing volumes of existing customers. And what makes us very happy and also this is a big question for the strategic future of MLP, there's still even young and the peak customer group is now entering more and more in this sector also with us. And for sure, everybody can calculate on its own which big potential is there. And that means also we are getting more and more relevant in the competition against typical banks like Sparkasse, [indiscernible] banking or the big banks. And so we were very glad, beside all the positive net inflows, that especially the net inflows in the MLP banking world, which is reflecting the business with our mass affluent MLP customers was again on a record level and increased by another 100% compared to the year 2020, which is very, very -- even if the setbacks will come up, this is a big, big message for the future that we are more and more competitive in this sector. Or on the right side, the other initiative, if you look to the non-life insurance portfolio volumes with a number of EUR 555 million. It's comparable, in Germany, to midsized insurer, just to give you an indication of relevance we have in the meantime in the market. And by the way, for you as investor, quite important, in opposite to insurers, we do that with significant less risks if you should be aware of that. So -- and speaking about future, that means also just to inform you about our position in the industrial broker segment, where are we. As you remember, we informed you last year that we will now enter this market. We made a first big acquisition with RVM, which is in the -- which is a company in this middle field, this highly fragmented market we have. And for sure, our clear target is to be really relevant here and come up to the big 10 companies in Germany. Very important after the first 9 months is the status, what has happened, and there's a very good message here. RVM had its best year ever in acquisition of new premiums after the acquisition. And this is for sure also a good signal for you as investors because we all know, acquisitions are easily to illustrate on PowerPoint but very difficult to some extent to manage it. And this seems to be the next proof point after several examples we had in the past that we are able with our knowledge and our competency, but also very important for our culture to invite new colleagues come up to the group to strengthen the group and then to do even better now than before, very important interim status for this. For sure, we are going ahead with working out the common potential we have with MLP and RVM. And as you know, we are not only open for further acquisitions. We are in active models here to have a geographical coverage, which is important in this business. For Germany, for sure, by the way, we also try to find the right targets, which help us also to enter specific knowledge segments, for example, medicine business or whatever. So these are the guiding principles of our further acquisitions, and we have very active models. So we can expect that, as we said, in the next forthcoming 2 to 3 years, there will be some 1 to 2 further acquisitions per year, typically much smaller size than we had with RVM, because this is the last point, for sure, our strategy is in opposite to some other active players in the market. We want to bring it really together. That means also from a technological point of view, we want to work on one system because, otherwise, you don't have a possibility to reach also the necessary synergies you need to have if you take also the risk of acquisitions and especially if you invest some money there. One new example of our strategy, and this is not new to our idea to monetize what we have and to scale what we have is the new MLP School of Financial Education, which is even young, still young baby of MLP Corporate University. So now we also offer to external participants our programs of financial education, and we all know that especially in Germany, education levels are rather low, too low starting in schools and also later. And so we have different offerings as a starting offering. We also will make our experience there, but this is the next good step now to scale up what we already have. So example, we are open for certified financial planners outside from MLP to offer them also entry to our programs. We have specific programs for medicines and physicians, for entrepreneurs, for example, or also for companies. We offer them now financial educational programs for employees or career essential for young professionals. This is a good example how we are developing our existing competencies and offer it step by step to the market and try for sure also to get more relevance and even more reputation in this sector because we strictly believe that our industry needs more and more professional players and education is one of the keys in our sector. Now coming to the forecast 2022. So what you have seen now with this interim step 2021, so that we are benefiting from our implemented growth drivers. We started to explain in 2020, so we are confirming our old midterm target, which is now the forecast for next year of EUR 75 million to EUR 85 million, which on the -- perhaps on the first view seems to be a little bit defensive after our strong results. But I think it's key. It's key to understand that, for sure, we had a strong benefit in 2021 of the performance fees and the concept also in 2020, and we are not planning that for the future. It would be not appropriate to plan such a level. So we are just planning for next year and the forthcoming years with a higher single-digit million number in performance fees. That means significantly less as what we have seen in 2020 and '21. We see that in the footnote with some EUR 67 million in last year or the year before EUR 35 million or EUR 36 million, which is nothing we can plan. So if you deduct that, you can see that we are on track on one hand and that the next step makes sense, EUR 75 million to EUR 85 million. For sure, if something is going better, it's going better, we will not be close to that, but it's a strong ambition, and we will work forward. It's backed by our growth drivers I just mentioned also back because we had a strong investment phase in the last years, young business, but also IT infrastructure with some CapEx, but also expenses. And so therefore, the benefits are coming out. So we feel comfortable then to reach a new forecast, which is the old midterm planning, EUR 75 million to EUR 85 million. If you look more to details of the revenue expectations here, wealth management, don't be nervous because here is a minus, I'm coming back to this point. For sure, we cannot plan with more than EUR 60 million in performance fees or EUR 30 million. We planned, as I just said, a higher single-digit number. That means, therefore, it should be a double minus. We have just taken the performance fees. On the other side, I just mentioned we are very positive on our customer growth, on the increasing volumes of existing customers as well in FERI as well in the MLP banking sector. That means, overall, bringing that together, there's a single minus. But again, please, to be very clear, we are very positive on this sector, and it's one of the key success factors for a long-term future of MLP and the MLP Group. We are positive about old age provisioning due to our young segment, which is growing, even if an adviser number is just stable now between 2001 and 2020, but we did a significant step. We are with 470 young advisers, quite at the level we are targeting, 500 to 550. So it means also we are sure -- quite sure that we'll reach this level of 500 to 550 up to the end of this year. And we are very positive that the occupational pension business, which has a very weak phase in 2020 coming up in '21, is also a good contributor to a positive development here. We are double positive for non-life because we have now a strong effect of RVM, which is now the full year fully booked and will have a very significant impact for this year 2002 (sic) [ 2022 ]. We are still very positive in the real estate brokerage which is still a young business. For sure, we are a big player in the meantime, but reputation is also quite helpful to be even more successful. We are neutral, which is a good message from my point of view for the health insurance business, and we expect still a further growth in the loans and mortgages where we already reached high levels. But for sure, it's also correlated to the real estate brokerage. So this was '22 forecast. Now coming to the new midterm plan. So coming from this level of EUR 75 million, EUR 85 million expected for 2022, we are expecting for 2025 EBIT between EUR 100 million and EUR 110 million, and sales should come up above EUR 1.1 billion. It is based on not new because there's no reason to change something, which is -- was very successful. Never change a winning team. Increasing assets under management is one of the key factors. Sustainable growth in all the sectors, we have seen now 4 years, and there's no reason why we should not go ahead, and for sure, the still young segment of real estate business. Everything is based for sure on ongoing cost discipline and cost efficiency. What is not included in our plan is M&A activities. So everything here should be added up because we cannot plan something like that, or otherwise, it could cause [ salient ] decisions if you plan something like that. We take care that we get the right targets, we get the right people in, we get the right cultural match, and we have a time also to work out a cooperative working fundament. So these are the main things. Again, I have to point out that we were careful with the performance phase in this planning. For sure, if we assume that the assets under management will increase our baseline for performance-based compensation will be further improved. So that means also if markets should be a little bit more easy again in the future, there could be additional potential, which is for sure highly welcomed but not explicitly planned. So to get some -- a little more deep insight to the success factors, you can see the assets under management, we expect from today's point of view a level of some EUR 62 billion to EUR 68 billion up to '25 and ongoing contributions in the private sector but as well in the institutional sector. Sustainable growth, I would like to highlight again the young segment. But remember, we made a big change in 2017 with a new model to work in this segment. We are ahead of our business plan, so we reached more than breakeven last year. That means also the leverage should be expected now in this year, and that means also a significant earnings contribution in 2002 (sic) [ 2022 ] and for sure also in the following years. And for sure, I have to say it again, we have now a proved track record with broad growth in all the segments. So we assume also here further growth rates, which are perhaps not as extreme as last year, but even with higher single-digit numbers. I think we are in a very good position. And last, but not least, the still young but successful real estate business, which is still relevant especially also in our core fields of old-age provision. For example, we expect a further growth in the volumes, and we want to see up to '25 a level of EUR 600 million to EUR 640 million of real estate volume broked by us. And for sure, also, we also work out our further controlled project business with ongoing increasing earnings contribution in the forthcoming years. So this is our plan for 2025. It's -- there's ambition, but also there's a good confidence that we prepared the fundamental that we had a very strong interim results. Obviously, we have a perfect motivation now to do the next step on the earnings level. That means also to come to the end and to summarize the most important points. A series of big challenges in the last years we overcome. We sized opportunities in the markets, and we had a very successful exceptional year in 2021. MLP Group is now stronger and more diversified than ever before. It's a new MLP. It's not comparable to MLP 15 or 20 years ago. And at the same time, in our transformation process, we worked out additional growth potential, which is reflected in our forecast '22 and our planning for '25. And we are confident to start the year despite all these increased risk in the markets like Ukraine war, like inflation scenarios and whatever. And we will go on focused on the next period of growth with a planned EBIT of EUR 100 million to EUR 110 million in '25. Thank you now for your time, your patience, and we are now waiting and open for your questions. Thank you.

Well, thank you, Uwe and Reinhard. Ladies and gentlemen, we now come to the Q&A session. [Operator Instructions] We have already some questions in. The first questions come from Christian Salis from Hauck Aufhäuser. Thank you very much. One topic is regarding the performance fees we already touched slightly in the presentations. Mr. Salis wants to go a little bit deeper and is interested in how much performance fees are included in our '22 guidance and how much performance fees are included in our '25 target.

Yes. Mr. Salis, I think the figure was already mentioned, but we should look back, I can repeat the figure for both years because in both years, we planned a higher single-digit million euro amount.

Thank you. The next topic is regarding the development of DEUTSCHLAND.Immobilien, and he is asking if you can provide an update of the development of own projects in DEUTSCHLAND.Immobilien. And second question, if there is any negative effect expected on real estate brokerage from rising interest rates.

Okay. Update on the development of own projects. Yes, and I think you knew this from our last telephone audience, we are a little bit behind plan there definitely. The major reason there is that we're still waiting in many projects for approval -- for official approvals to start building. Therefore, we are, in general, a little bit behind plan, but nevertheless, we have around -- or more than 20 projects in the pipeline next to the projects which are ongoing. Therefore, in the future or in the outlook, as Uwe Schroeder-Wildberg also mentioned, we are quite positive. And then I think the good question about interest rate. The question is where will the interest rates be in 1 or 2 years. I think this is the question and extremely difficult to answer. We know we are on record low rates or we were in record low rates some weeks ago, and we also see that due to the turbulences which are in respect to the Ukraine crisis, we are a little bit back to lower interest rates again. Therefore, I would say if we are in the interest level, as we are now, if the interest rate will go up, let's say, for 100 basis points, [ 121 and 40 ] basis points, I think this will not affect -- obviously, there will be effect, but I think it will not affect too much the demand for real estate. I think for us, it's also important to emphasize again that we -- obviously, we broker all types of investment real estate projects or objects, but we have a special emphasis on real estate for senior housing, and this is an area where we see increasing demand in the future. And therefore, we continue to be positive in this area. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Our next question comes from Philipp Häßler, Pareto Securities, and he will join us via audio. So please, Philipp, go ahead.

Yes. Can you hear me?

Yes, very good.

Very good. Technology is always amazing. So here's all my questions. Firstly, could you please comment on the current status of your assets under management, maybe end of February? Then secondly, the net flows in Q4, please. And then also on the tax rate, which was relatively high at 33%. Maybe you could give an outlook for the current year. And last, but not least, the dividend. We saw a nice increase to EUR 0.30. Nevertheless, I mean, the payout ratio was relatively low at only 52%. Could I interpret it that way that you didn't want to raise your dividend in absolute terms too much so that you are able to keep it stable this year? I mean next year.

Okay. Thank you for answering your question. Yes, Mr. Häßler, I think this interpretation is totally right. Obviously, you know that we announced the payout ratio and we want to stay in the payout ratio. But on the other side, we also -- which we didn't announce, but obviously, it's our target not to lower our dividend, and therefore, the payout of EUR 0.30 per share has the reflection of a possible dividend payout in the following -- or in 12 months also in our mind. And therefore, yes, there is a relation. Tax rate, yes, the tax rate is a little bit higher. This has something to do with the acquisition of RVM and the special, let's say, complexity of this. This will be a 1-year effect from next year onwards. We again expect a dividend -- sorry, a tax rate of a little bit less than 30%. And coming back to the asset under management, as always, I don't give the quarter, but I know that you have every quarter, and therefore, I'll give you a full year, then you see what is related to every quarter. For the full year, we had inflows of EUR 12 billion in FERI and MLP, and we had outflows of EUR 3 billion. And therefore, I think, very, very positive development. This positive development continues also in '22. Obviously, I won't go into details of the figures. But -- and definitely, we also see some influence of the, let's say, development of the capital markets overall and our asset under management, but the positive trend of last year also continues in '22.

And perhaps it's worthwhile also to make a thorough remark here to your question about development of assets under management during the year. And also, I think it's covering all the questions about risks, which could come up in this world. Again, we can see here that MLP has a very diversified approach. This is our philosophy to work with customers. And for sure, it's reflected also in the way the group is built up. That means, for example, to be more concrete, speaking about asset under management, we are working on the multi-asset management approach. That means we are not speaking just about stocks. We're speaking about hedge funds, infrastructure, private equity, whatever. We have all of the biggest private equity and hedge fund teams in Germany and Europe with FERI. That means this is also one of the strengths I spoke about, that we are much more balanced in the direction how we work with our customers. And the outcome is also with our turnover and our results are much more balanced. For sure, there is some risk, but you can see also that this is very important to understand if you compare us to other players in our industry.

Thank you very much. Perhaps we wait for a second to see if there is a little time shift. For the moment, I can see no further questions. So that seems that all necessary information has been given and all questions have been answered. Should you have any further questions maybe arising later, please do not hesitate to contact the MLP IR team directly. A recording of this conference will be available on our website as soon as this call is concluded. Thank you for your attention. And with that, we bid you farewell and wish you a good day. Goodbye.

Thank you so much. All the best. Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.