Mold-Tek Packaging Limited (533080) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Mold-Tek Packaging Q4 FY '20 Earnings Conference Call hosted by Antique Stock Broking. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Manish Mahawar from Antique Stock Broking. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Zen. On behalf of Antique Stock Broking, I would like to welcome all the participants on the call. From the management, we have Mr. J. Lakshmana Rao, Chairman and MD of Mold-Tek Packaging on the call. Without further ado, I would like to hand over the call to Mr. Rao for opening remarks. Over to you, sir.

Good afternoon, everybody. Thanks, Manish. Welcome to the quarterly review of Q4 and the year ending March 31, 2020. I am glad to inform you that in spite of COVID impact in the last 10 days of the financial year, company could give positive results in terms of sales growth, which is almost 12.62% year-on-year, and the Q4, it is 9.41%. And profitability at the PBT level has dipped a bit because of increased cost of salaries and other costs in the last 10 days of the year, which were not productive. So that has marginally reduced the PBT by about 7%. But thanks to the reduced incidence of tax and there is an exceptional item last year of RAK, the net profit levels have shot up to INR 7.98 crores from INR 1.94 crores last corresponding Q4. Overall, year-on-year, the profit before tax and before exceptional item has gone up only marginally by 1% from INR 51.46 crores to INR 51.94 crores. But due to reduced taxation and exceptional items of RAK write-off, profit at the bottom line after the tax has gone up by 58% from INR 24 crores to INR 38 crores. So actually, the quarter would have been one of the best quarters, but for the last 10 days' loss of complete operations and the costs were incurred as the company paid the entire salaries and other overheads during the first lockdown. And later on we could partially operate starting from May, partially and -- sorry, April partially and May to almost 45%, 50% and June looks better than that. But overall, the COVID impact is really considerable in the first quarter. Numbers will dip at least by 40% in overall sales volume, which would be -- might pull us down into red after a long streak of 15 years of continuous profitability quarter-on-quarter. This could be the 1 bad quarter. But going forward, things may stabilize is what I'm hoping. And company is taking all the precautions regarding sanitization, distance maintenance right at the head office and even at the plants. And now in June, all the branches are operating. In May, they were partially -- 3 plants have started. And by middle of May, another 3, 4 plants also started. Now completely from June 1, all the plants are operative. Demand is varying in different plants and currently in May, we have around 45% capacity utilization overall. And that might go up in June to somewhere near 55% or even 60% if few things fall in place. But for the overall, including April, May and June, the capacity utilization will be less than 40%, maybe 35%, which will be below the breakeven point. So this is the news as of now. But anyway, we will have the question and answers after the -- after I put down my -- I mean complete this introduction. And company is also planning to -- company has completely closed the RAK write-off with INR 2.86 crores in the current year, completing the total losses absorption for the -- from the RAK plant. Substantial amount was taken last year itself, that is INR 11.5 crores. And this year, it is INR 2.86 crores. And enough provisions have been provided to close the entire losses so that going forward, company will not have this burden. So that is as of now. And regarding the question and answers, I now hand over back to Manish.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Ankit Gor with Systematix Shares.

My first question with respect to paint segment and you elaborately mentioned in press release as well about the pain we are feeling in paint segment. But what is your sense when things will start picking up in particularly the paint segment? And what sort of guidance Asian Paints is giving to suppliers like us? If you can -- then I have a few more questions, but yes, if you can answer this.

Yes, I'm also more concerned about the paint industry because the current year, this year ended, almost 52.4% of the sales have come from paint industry, and paint being a discretionary use item, it can wait in the priority of consumers' consumption patterns. So there may be a fall in paint consumption is everybody guessing. But the industry leader, Asian Paints, has given us good move both in May and April, though in April -- sorry, April completely closed. May, they have started taking some volumes. And because we are very proactive and able to supply them when our competitors are not in a position to do so, they have given us a better part of the business, both in April -- May and June, indicated in June. So the numbers in June look at least normal, almost normal. But going forward, I don't think it will be the same because other competitors who are -- generally Asian Paints' strategy is to buy from at least 3 vendors. So others also will be up and running in June. So probably from July onwards, they may start distributing the orders. So I have to see until May -- July to understand how their demand pattern emerges. Coming to the other players like Berger and KNP, the numbers are pretty low. In April and May, they're almost near to 0. And in June, they started picking up around 1/4 or maybe as of now, but probably they may start picking up. So the most impacted segment, in my opinion, out of all 3, lubes, paint and FMCG -- food and FMCG, would be paint. So because it contributes -- constitutes 52% of our sales, we are a little bit concerned how the numbers will emerge. But as of now -- yes.

Yes, I'm sorry. Yes, please go ahead.

Yes. As of now, June looks okay, thanks to Asian Paints' call ups which are percentage-wise, we got more business from them. That's what I understand, but I don't have complete data. If the same thing goes, we will be fine. At least, we will be normal, I would say, from July onwards. But if this is a onetime up and then again things start coming down in the -- especially from the leader, we could have some pain for a few more months.

But in the worst case, do you foresee that by 3Q, we should come back to our normalized run rate of Q3, Q4 FY '20? Should we come back to those?

I guess so. In Q3, yes, certainly, I'm confident because of the food and FMCG is doing well in spite of losing the entire ice cream business in this summer because people [ get ] ice cream to get us colds and viruses. So ice cream industry in particular in this summer has completely wiped off, I would say, 70% to 80% drop in ice cream sales and some of the leaders also could not even lift even 10% to 20% of their regular requirements, because as a food packaging, there is a clearance from the government to supply those packs. Other than ice cream, we could get all other food companies -- food packaging products we could sell. But ice cream containers in this summer are completely wiped off. So -- but still, we have managed to get a growth in food even for this quarter. And for the entire year, we ended up with 18.51% growth in FMCG. It could have been better. It could have been 25% like last year, but it didn't because the ice cream season right from March middle has completely wiped off. Of course, its impact will be felt in Q1 more than the Q4 of last year.

Yes. Just trying to understand more about payment or receivables. We also heard a lot of news about Asian Paints delaying the suppliers' payment. What is our overall outstanding to Asian Paints? That's one. And secondly, still, we work with a lot of regional and smaller, mid to small players. How are our receivables are with them? And when we are expecting to receive a big money if we are stuck there -- if we are stuck with them?

APL, delayed payments are not really seen. All our plants, which come under categorized as SMSE, so those industries, they are not delaying the payments. Only supplies from Hyderabad, where it is medium or large comes under. So Hyderabad sales are hardly 10% of our overall sales to Asian Paints. So the rest of the small units, which are kept near to them, they are paying on priority just like the previous payment terms. So payment terms, they were very open and intimated to press and everybody about their request for increasing the credit period. But to us, the impact is hardly 10%. So it doesn't really matter. Yes, from the regional players and small marginal companies, though we take advances, though we try to take some kind of PDCs when we supply to them, there are a few occasions where I'm noticing that some of them are turning bad or they're asking for more time. But as I -- as you all know, packaging is 1 input which no company can avoid if they want to distribute their product. So the moment they need the -- they start their operations and go forward, they will be again coming back to us because all the art works, all the plates and IML labels, these are all already developed and with us and the containers and their filling lines are all set together. They won't be able to run away. But there will be some delays in collections from these small and marginal companies. They are not many. They contribute hardly 2% to 3% in our sales, but there could be concern for some of them turning back.

Okay. And then usually in 4Q we receive handsome discount from our raw material supplier. Can we get this time or it was in 3Q itself?

No, no, no. We got the discount in the Q4 as usual, and that has been already taken in the accounts. Only some special discount of additional amount, which they generally pay at the end of the year without any commitment, but we've still not heard any news from them. We are asking them to pay it. But as of now, we have not received any confirmation. That is their discretion. Actually, it's not on black and white on the agreement. Even that amount is not substantial, it would be around INR 40 lakhs to INR 50 lakhs.

The next question is from the line of Kaushal Shah from Dhanki Securities Private Limited.

Sir, if you can throw some more light on the other 2 segments, the lube segment and within the F&F, the other subsegments like edible oils, et cetera, where you're seeing some traction, which are the areas, just like you mentioned, ice cream, any other areas which are kind of slow moving as of now? Or any other areas, which have seen some demand traction and which look to be kind of some positive areas? So if you can just throw some more light on the subsegments in lube and in F&F?

Yes. In lubes, the numbers are improving from May and maybe probably better in June. But of course, April is a dead month in all segments other than food. Lube is also almost zero in April. Only in May they started because once the movement of goods and trucks started around the country, the lubricant demand also started picking up. And the numbers as of now are still far below, say, 20%, 25% below the normal, but much better than paint as of -- in May. But in June, I think paint might improve because of, as I said, the leader Asian Paints is giving us a major portion of their business. And that number can offset the loss in May to some extent. But in the lubricants, the demand, it could be in the region of 10% to 15% in the first 6 months is my guess, because April, one full month is already gone. That itself is 15% for the first year -- first half -- 16%. So that will continue in the first year. Probably the second quarter, we might get back to the numbers what we achieved last year second quarter, but the first quarter is completely wiped off. So lubes is a little better than paint, having started in May itself. Coming to F&F, we have 1 big negative in ice cream sales being lost in both April and May. In June, some companies are coming up, but monsoon sets in South, so probably that will be a blip in June. And again, from July, that could go back. But I'm glad to inform you, the edible oil segment is doing well because the concern for cleaner containers, cleaner hygienic way of filling, robotics manufacturing of the containers is now catching up among the consumers, and that is resulting in higher volume of purchases in edible oil segment.

Sir, any customers that you can share -- if you have...

A lot of them. Now the names have gone beyond 50, 60 clients, who are regularly buying and the numbers are -- I wouldn't say that they are far better than last year, but definitely in the edible oil sector, we are better than last year marginally, even in the month of May and June. In April also, they pulled because there's essential commodity. We didn't stop supplies of edible oil in April. If you ask me, half of the sale in April -- almost half has come from food and -- sorry, edible oil itself, almost 40%, you can say. So -- in May, of course, other segments also started, but the numbers are still doing good. And June indications are also still better. So edible oil area, which we grew last year by 50% overall. If not 50%, probably it will grow at least 20%, 25% this year. So that is 1 silver line (sic) [ lining ] in our products. Another positive thing there in that same pack, we are trying to sell it to sanitizers for bulk pack, the 5-liter pack. We are arranging a pump to the 5-liter pack and a couple of companies have shown interest, and they're already launching in this month in June. So probably -- it's not a big volume because 5-liter is a bulk product, which probably theaters and big offices people might buy and keep it at the entrance for, say, sanitization. So that application, our marketing has pushed last month. And some success they are seeing, but those numbers will be hardly INR 1 crore -- INR 40 lakhs, INR 50 lakhs per month kind of sale, maybe INR 1 crore. So it will hardly add 2% to 3% to the growth. But these are the only 2 silver lines in the dark clouds. Otherwise, dark clouds in all other segments. Food industry would have done better, but for the ice cream being a big knockout. Edible oil is a savior and application of sanitizer for bulk pack probably is a small addition. These are the only 2 positives we see in the next 3 months in the F&F.

So we have been trying to make some inroad into some newer categories like detergents or agri. So any success there which you can share, sir? We've made any headway there?

Detergents, that same fare pack is doing okay. But again, now people are cost conscious. They don't want to spend even INR 3, INR 4 more per pack. And I don't see new entrants will increase. Those who have already shifted will certainly stay with us because they have already put it in the market. But the new entrants who are about to take a plunge in March, April might take some more time to shift. So that application-wise, I don't see a major growth coming from -- in the at least next 6 months. We are now introducing the sweet packs. The molds have come. They will be launched sometime in July. But again, how the market will take, whether they will be able to shift from ordinary conventional packing to IML sweet boxes is, again, a lingering doubt in our minds. So we need to wait and see.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of [ Sonia Alia from Siku Aswel ].

Sir, my first question is related to 2 data pointers. What is your breakup of fixed costs and variable costs? And secondly, how much ice cream contributes to the F&F segment? And my second question...

What is the second point?

Second point is ice cream business contribution in food and FMCG segment?

Okay.

Okay. And second question is related to margin contraction. Generally, historically, what have you seen like in such cases -- in such scenario when there is economic slowdown, do you see your clients -- your customers ceasing your margins, they're asking you to work at lower margins because we are suppliers, have you seen like this historically?

Okay. First, I'll start with margin contraction. We are not entertaining any price reduction unduly just because there's a reduced demand for products. More or less, the margins at the top end remain same, but the EBITDA might come down because the capacity utilization might come down and the cost -- fixed cost like manpower and others will stay there. Even there is remuneration reduction, small pay cut we have taken for the top managers. The fixed cost will continue to stay more or less there. So there won't be a reduction in the pricing, that is for sure. We are not offering any price reduction of any of our products, neither are our clients, not much pressure on that. But overall, margin contraction may come because fixed costs stay there. And at the EBITDA level, you will still find the margins are under pressure. And percentage of ice cream in food and FMCG, actually, out of the INR 101 crores we did this year, I guess -- it's a guess only because I don't have exact figures, about INR 14 crores to INR 15 crores last year we did. That is last April, May, June quarter itself, we did almost INR 15 crores. Maybe during the remaining 9 months, we must have done another INR 7 crores, INR 8 crores. So it is around 20%, 22% of our food and FMCG should have come from ice cream. So to that extent, here in April, May, June, 2/3 of it is gone. So maybe a setback of INR 14 crores, INR 15 crores in the ice cream industry in this year, '20-'21.

Okay. Sir, and about fixed costs and variable costs breakup?

Yes, fixed costs -- the variable costs are directly related to material that -- fortunately for us, that itself contributes to more than 50% or close to 50% of costs and consumables and other variable costs around -- put together, consumables and raw material are about 60%. So 60% is variable cost and almost 40% is our -- not 40%, I would say, 10% profit margin, if you take it, it's around 30% in fixed costs.

The next question is from the line of Naushad Chaudhary from Systematix Shares & Stocks.

Congrats on a decent set of numbers, sir. I joined a little bit late. Just want to check, if you shared the volume number of all the 3 categories, sir?

Yes. In the year, I think, March 31, in the full year, we did about 52% in paint industry, 25% -- around 25% in lube and around 23.1% in food and FMCG, as against 47.7%, 30.6% and 21.7% in the last year. So in the paint, there's a big growth because of the new plants of Vizag and Mysore contributed almost 14% to the top line. So that is why the paint segment grew from 47% to 52%. Lube has come down from 30% -- 30.6% to 25%, basically because of general reduction in the lube consumption in the country. Food and FMCG has gone up by almost 18.5%, as we introduced more range of products and our edible oil pack started picking up in this year quite handsomely. The total turnover was up to INR 36 crores as against INR 24 crores. So almost a 50% jump in Q-packs. So that is how the year ended.

Okay. Can you share the volume number of this quarter, the total volume, sir?

For this quarter alone, it is 55% paint, 22% lube and 22.3% food and FMCG. You can say 55%, 22.5% and 22.5%.

That is the breakup of revenue, right?

Revenue, yes, turnover.

Yes, yes. And what is the volume tonnage, sir?

Volume tonnage for this quarter is 59%, 25% and 16%.

Of a total of?

100%. 59%, 25%, 16%.

No, in absolute numbers, sir, how much is the tonnage...

First quarter -- this quarter, you mean?

Yes, yes.

In rupees, it is INR 59 crores, INR 23.5 crores and INR 24 crores.

No, I'm asking, in terms of total tonnage, how much volume we sold in this quarter, sir?

Okay. Tonnage in this quarter is total consumption 6,170. In that paints is 3,600; lube around 1,550; food and FMCG about 1,000.

Okay. So by going with this calculation and I have the last year volume number, we have seen around 8% to 10% decline in our total EBITDA per tonne. And was this because of the increase in revenue share of paint division? Or is there any other reason behind it, sir?

Yes, it's not 8%, about INR 2.30 -- yes, around 7% reduction in the EBITDA margin for the Q4 is basically -- one of the reasons is that the paint is less contributing compared to the food and FMCG. Growth in food and FMCG is -- sorry, paint is much higher due to the 2 plants of Asian Paints picking up steam in the last quarter, Q4. But one of the reasons why the margins dipped a bit is also because we have completely revamped the building sets and mainly the old sets of unit 1 at Hyderabad, we have revamped the roofing and provided new electrical lines and changed the complete cabling because they are more than 20, 25 years old, is indirectly about INR 1 crores was spent on such building maintenance and mold maintenance also. Molds also, we have taken up for overhaul, assuming a huge demand in 2021 because the year was about to end at an excellent note. But for the last 10 days' lockdown, we would have even looked at 18%, 19% of growth on the quarter, which ended up at 9.4%. So keeping up the trends and the increasing demand, we have taken up a lot of mold revamps and even buildings and electrification revamps at the old units in the last quarter of the year. So that maintenance costs have gone up considerably to the extent of INR 1 crore. So on a tonnage of 6,100 tonnes, it almost works out INR 1.50 there itself. And of course, the last 10 days, fixed costs have to be borne, including the salaries are fully paid. So that has also declined the margins. Otherwise, we would have maintained our bracket of around INR 34 per kg margins. This is not because of any price reduction, only these couple of reasons.

Okay. Actually, I was wondering because in the past, we have guided the Vizag and other new plant for paint segment is expected to contribute INR 34 to INR 35 per kg EBITDA. And in this quarter, despite of having a decent share and the volume of this quarter is quite similar to the last -- same quarter last year, there shouldn't be a much impact on the EBITDA.

No, last year actually, there is a considerable change. The food contribution was, of course, 1,205 tonnes, has come down to 1,000. And the paint contribution was 2,750 tonnes, has become 3,600. So the shift in product mix was there to some extent. But the margin reduction in this year -- in the fourth quarter is mainly due to the increase in maintenance costs and salaries and other fixed costs paid fully in March as against 20 days effective production.

Okay. And this maintenance cost we take entirely on P&L? Or do we take it on balance sheet and then capitalize over...

No, no, no, everything on P&L. That's -- in this quarter, it's about INR 40 lakhs, but the full year it is more than -- almost INR 1 crore.

Okay. Secondly, sir, in terms of our pledge share, we had a target to make it 0 by March 2020. But as of March, we still have 5% pledge shares, around 5.2%. So your comment on...

Pledge shares, one second, let me see, they have come down considerably, if you notice, compared to...

Yes, it has come down, but we had a target of making it 0.

Yes, some individuals are still carrying some loans against the shares for their personal reasons. But none of the major partners have taken --- I have the details here. It is 4.55%, yes.

Okay. Any comment on the...

4.55% of the promoter share, 1.58% of the overall company, which some time ago it was close to 9%, 10%. So that's come down to 1.58% now. Only a couple of individuals are having [Technical Difficulty] Satyavati, that's all. These 2 people have currently...

So can we see this going down in coming quarters, sir?

See, it all depends upon the individuals, but I think they are also intending to reduce their pledge. At least one of them is going to do that. So it might come down below 1% within this quarter, maybe.

Okay. In terms of CapEx, have we revised our CapEx plan for this financial year and FY '22?

Yes. FY '22, I don't want to comment now because it's very unpredictable. For the year 2021, we are planning to reschedule or rearrange our capital layout because we have about INR 5 crores pending amounts to be paid for the orders placed before this COVID issue. So those have to be completed in this year. We may defer our North plant to some more months. We thought we'll start by October, November this year. Probably that may not happen in this year. But we are finding some new obligations like closures and pumps for various applications in cosmetics, sanitizers and hand washes and all that. That project probably we may take up. We are actually considering that investment. It may not be very considerable. The idea is to utilize the spare capacity of the molding machines available and to make sure that they are better utilized even if demand don't pick up in the second and third quarter. So those initiatives are in the final stage, but they may not involve more than INR 5 crores -- INR 5 crores to INR 7 crores of investment. So apart from this INR 5 crores, I foresee about INR 10 crores to INR 15 crores maximum investment this year. So the overall investment will be toned down to the tune of INR 15 crores to INR 18 crores, I guess, as against originally thought plan of around INR 30 crores.

Okay. And this North plant, were you referring to our Kanpur plant or...

Yes, Kanpur plant. That's what we thought we will go in, in October. And probably another plant near to Chandigarh towards beginning of the next financial year, that is '21 April, May. But both of these, we are planning to shift to next year because we need to wait and see how the economy revives and opportunities come up in our way.

Okay. And in terms of RAK write-offs, are we still expecting any write-off from this? Or is it completed now?

No, RAK is totally completed. There is nothing left over there. There is small collection amount, that also we have provided, but the chances of getting it back are also 50%. So if we get that back, actually there will be add back. So we have conservatively taken that write-off also because it's more than 1 year.

Okay. And how much time does it take for us to pass on the change in raw material costs because consequently from last 3 to 4 quarters, the raw material prices are coming down. So how much benefit we get and how much we have to pass on to the client?

No. Generally, our tendency or the agreements are pass on in a month or in a quarter. So if it is a quarterly review for some clients, it will be done on a quarterly basis. For example, Asian Paints, Mondelez, who are our major clients, it's quarterly. But Castrol, Shell and some other companies, it's monthly. So the benefit, whatever comes, while it's coming down, will last only for a quarter. And then we pass it on. And if there is a further reduction, again, we will benefit for a quarter for that extent. And similarly, when it goes up, we lose for a quarter or for a month, and then we gain when they adjust the price. So there's no permanency in benefit or loss, so it evens out.

Okay. So -- but it is coming...

In such scenario, the price reduction has stopped. Now actually, in June, they have indicated price increase. So I don't think now there will be any further fall in the raw material prices.

But it is consistently going down for the last 3 to 4 quarters. So can we assume around 0.5% or 1% of the benefit in the gross margin would have been because of this, because every 1 month benefit we get from this declining of raw materials?

I don't think so, because the steep fall which we have seen last year may not repeat because last month, they've carried the same price or marginal increases from grades. And this month, they are talking about INR 3 price increase. So in this scenario it may stabilize, is my guess. We can't take an advantage, in my opinion.

I'm talking about the credit loss for...

Sorry to interrupt, Mr. Chaudhary. The next question is from the line of Resham Jain from DSP Mutual Fund.

So I have a couple of questions. So first is, given the current situation, you mentioned that we have controlled a lot of costs and we are trying to -- basically on the discretionary spending, we are trying to control it. So let's say for the next 9 months, in case if you have built any scenarios, like if the demand is, let's say, 20% lower or 10% lower for the next 9 months, the EBITDA per kg, what we typically make and out of that, we have gross profit per kg and all. So how do you see the situation, if it is lower by 10%, if it is lower by 20% in terms of operating leverage?

The first quarter might end almost pretty badly because April, we did hardly 15% capacity utilization. May is close to around 35%, 40%. So 40%, you can say. And in June, probably we may hit around 60%. So the overall average will be below 40% for the first quarter. So that itself is a big setback for the entire year because we generally operate around 70%, 75%, at least, which is to 40% means almost 60% -- 40% of the revenue loss in the first quarter. So even if assuming the remaining 9 months we recover, I guess, we can -- there's a possibility if the economic turnaround comes in and because our new plants are now fully geared up in Mysore and Vizag, if paint industry also starts improving from at least middle of the second quarter, probably we may do the next 9 months similar to the last year. So still the setback of the first quarter will continue to haunt us. But I'll be not surprised if some of the turnaround trends in the food and FMCG, especially, and some of the new products which we are introducing, if they catch steam from, say, August, September onwards, probably they will give some covering of these losses in the first quarter. But I'll be very happy even if we can reach the last year numbers at the end of the year.

Okay. I was actually asking from 9 months, as first quarter obviously is...

9 months from -- oh, avoiding the first quarter.

Yes, yes, first quarter. Yes. So -- yes, first and second obviously...

In 9 months, yes, there is a possibility that we may able to get back the numbers of last year is my guess, because whatever growth we anticipated may not happen. So it could be flat, like, if we achieve the last June to March numbers -- sorry, July to March numbers, probably we can hope to do it unless there's again this pandemic becomes aggressive or again any shutdowns happen. If things go normal hereafter and demand starts picking up, then next 9 months could be definitely as per last year.

And sir, what will be our gross and net debt number as on March end?

Net debt as a long-term debt, it is around 20 -- what is our net debt, long-term debt?

Including sir, short term, if you can say, the total is fine.

Our total is around INR 81 crores in working capital. INR 20 crores, INR 21 crores in long term.

Okay. So total INR 101 crores? This is gross number?

Yes.

Okay. Okay. And sir, this year, as we have a lower CapEx planned, so you expect the next year debt overall number should come down ultimately?

Yes, at least they will stay put or they will come down marginally, especially in the working capital because if the sales numbers remain stagnant, the internal cash generation could cover up the -- some of the working capital borrowing. Long-term debt is INR 34 crores. Sorry, not INR 20 crores, INR 34 crores.

So INR 34 crores plus INR 81 crores, is it?

INR 34 crores plus INR 81 crores.

And sir, just 1 last final question. Is the -- do we have any exports? And is it viable? And also is export -- given the domestic situation not that great in near term, do we have opportunistic exports also to grow our utilization?

We are having exports to Middle East, thanks to our presence in RAK for the last 4 to 5 years. Some of the clients, like Total Lubricants and a couple of clients in Oman, they're still buying from us. The containers all the way from India, we are exporting. The export numbers have gone up last year to INR 4.5 crores. Earlier, it used to be under INR 3 crores. So this year we are, actually started anticipating to hit almost INR 7 crores, INR 8 crores exports. But again, these 2 months is a setback because our clients total have -- in fact, enhance the product range and they propose to pick up more volumes from April. But when situation turned very negative in April, there were not many supplies could be affected. But the orders are still on and once they start their operations full swing, probably some export revenues can go up. So on that front, it can only be a net positive in spite of losing this couple of months, but not a very aggressive growth because the transport cost is a killer in our containers. They occupy a lot of space. So the transport costs, beyond going to the Middle East, will be a challenge. So in the Middle East, yes, we hope to do better than last year, even losing April and May, because of our RAK clients who would be requiring from Indian supply.

The next question is from the line of Karan Bhatelia from Asian Markets Securities.

Sir, if you can like share the numbers for Mysore and Vizag in terms of volumes and value for Q4 and for FY '20 as a whole?

FY '20 as a whole, Mysore and Vizag put together, we did about INR 58 crores; around 60% from Mysore and about 40% from Vizag approximately. If you want... [Technical Difficulty]

Sorry to interrupt, sir. We are not able to hear you.

Can you hear me?

Sir, you are sounding very soft.

You are talking about my voice?

Yes, sir.

Can you hear me now?

Yes, sir. Much better. Thank you.

Yes. So Mysore and Vizag put together, last year, sales were INR 58 crores, out of which you can say approximately INR 37 crores is from Mysore and INR 21 crores from Vizag.

And in terms of volumes?

In terms of volumes means, you have to take it at around INR 290 per kg. So about 2,000 tonnes in Mysore and about 1,100, 1,200 tonnes at Vizag, approximately.

Correct. Correct. And also, sir, how are things shaping on the Mondelez side, because we had a pain in a couple of quarters, so how are things shaping up there?

Even in this fourth quarter is generally bad for Mondelez because in summer -- sorry, first quarter is generally bad for Mondelez and in summer, the sales drop. So in the months of April, May, June, we don't see much movement, worse than last year, actually. But hopefully, from the monsoon starts, the chocolate sales generally pick up. So -- but altogether, not a great prospect there, too, because April, May, 2 months is gone.

Correct. Sir, if I like break up our [ assets ] of the revenue, could you like give some numbers from Mondelez sale, edible oil, ice cream and others? That would be helpful.

Better you send an email. I'll ask Rambabu to reply to you.

Okay. Okay. And 1 more, if I could go ahead, if you can share the IML, non-IML in the volume value for FY '20?

Yes. The IML sales have gone to the full year 62% -- 62.15% from 58.6% in terms of tonnage. In terms of value, from 63.2% to 66.6% -- sorry, 66.3% -- 63.2% to 66.3%.

The next question is from the line of [ Akand Shah from AMS Securities ].

Can you hear me?

Yes. Yes.

Yes. I wanted to know whether we have opted for the moratorium -- RBI moratorium.

No, we are not seeking any moratorium for any of the payments, neither on the property tax nor on the bank payments. Everything we are on time and we are actually availing any discounts that are available. So that way, we don't have any cash flow issues.

Okay. Can I know what will be the debt that has become -- that is coming due in this financial year and the CapEx that we plan for this financial year?

INR 6 crores is the long-term repayment payable. And as I told you, as of today, we have plans of about INR 12 crores to INR 15 crores investment planned for this year. INR 5 crores are already committed. Permissions are either on the way or some of them have reached various plants. And as I told you, we are planning to expand the product range. We're entering into closures and pumps for which some molds and machines are to be procured. They will be arriving maybe in the second -- end of this year, calendar year -- towards the end of the calendar year. So that is an investment plan, which is yet to be clear. If it goes through, that is another INR 7 crores. And general balancing of another INR 3 crores is what I'm guessing. So overall, we will be limiting our capital outflow to INR 15 crores this year, from INR 46 crores last year to INR 15 crores in this current financial year.

So we are continuing with the current expansion plan of the new product categories?

Yes, yes. We are not stopping any of these projects because the projects of Asian Paints at Mysore and Vizag also, marginal expansion was planned. The first phase of marginal expansion, machines are already arriving. And the sweet boxes, molds and robots have been procured. They are arriving. So these are the commitments we've already made before March. So they will be arriving any moment. Some of them actually arrived. And the flexo printing machine from Italy also arrived after some balance payments done in April. So overall, the investment this year we will continue to make in the tune of INR 12 crores to INR 15 crores. We initially thought of INR 30 crores, including our North plant.

Okay. That's great. I just missed the debt that is coming due...

Debt is INR 34 crores long term and INR 81 crores working capital.

No, how much will be -- will we have to pay in this year?

INR 6 crores.

The next question is from the line of Shailee Parekh from Prabhudas Lilladher.

I hope you are doing well. So I had a question on aqua foods and detergents. Could you tell us what's happening on that front because during quarter 3, you all have mentioned, you are foraying into both these segments. So could you share if there have been any further developments since then?

In what -- I missed your...

Aqua foods and detergents.

Sorry?

Aqua foods and detergents, sir?

Yes. That's -- see, when the situation is like this, nobody would be shifting from their current packs to little costlier packs, though they appear good. I answered this question earlier, maybe you were not there. Some of...

Yes. No, I could clearly have missed it, sir. Yes, sorry for that.

Yes. Some of the detergent companies who have already adopted continue to buy from us, but the companies which were at the wedge of shifting during Feb, March, or even January they were contemplating, they are on the hold mode because their operation levels are still not stabilized. So they won't be looking at shifting their packaging and end up with some more blockades. So currently, shifting from their current pack to others is happening only in edible oil, where we are noticing some more brands are adding because edible oil packs of our make are robotically manufactured, assuring hygiene and contamination-free containers. So there is some push in edible oil segment. But somewhere, wherever the people are contemplating change, they are on the hold mode now.

Right. Sir, this is with regards to detergents, right, so to say?

Detergents or aqua, whatever, new packs where we entered in the previous quarters, people who were ready to jump in now are on the hold because their operation levels are not stabilized, who will think about new developments.

Thanks. And the other one question, which, obviously, other participants already asked is about the breakup of the F&F revenues across segments. As you said, I think it would make sense to speak with Rambabu post the call, right?

Yes, yes. You can take that.

The next question is from the line of Kush Joshi from Kitara Capital.

Sir, as regards the paint business, so what is the feedback or what is the outlook we are getting from Mysore and Vizag plant for '21?

Mysore and Vizag, what?

The volume numbers, so what commitments we are getting from Asian Paints for Mysore and Vizag plant for FY '21?

See, there's nothing called, anybody giving a commitment in this kind of a pandemic situation. Whatever best they are able to sell, they will be distributing among the 3 or 4 vendors they have established near the plants. So we are supposed to get around 25% to 30% of that business in both the plants. So whatever they could sell in that, they will give us that part of it. So -- fortunately, in June, they have given us a major -- much more percentage of business because other suppliers were not really up and going as Mold-Tek. So they have indicated that they are giving us a higher volume, which is now normal for us in any normal month. So June is going to be a decent month for us, thanks to that benefit we got. But how it goes in July onwards, I would only be able to comment after a couple of months.

And do we -- so in this next 9 months, do you see the share of food and FMCG increasing in overall pie? Or it will maintain the same balance?

See, in the food and FMCG, one setback I explained is ice creams. This April, May, June is completely washed out. Actually, in April, we could sell to the dairy companies other than ice creams for curds and fast foods. In fact, we did fairly decent sale. But coming to ice cream, it was completely knocked down. So keeping that in mind, I wouldn't think the overall number for the food and FMCG this year will be crossing last year's. If we can achieve the last year number, I'll be happy.

For the full year?

For the full year, yes.

Ladies and gentlemen, that is the last question. I now hand the call over to Mr. Rao for his closing comments. Hello, sir? Mr. Rao?

Yes.

Sir, would you like to add any closing remarks?

Yes. Okay. Thank you, everybody, for joining us in this conference call today and for the interest you have shown in our company's performance. First of all, this pandemic is something unexpected by anybody and not to this scale of disruption. But I think whatever the government did in controlling it has controlled it to some extent, but definitely impacted the economic conditions in a much bigger way, which is essential, keeping in mind the interest of people and the population and the like. So please take care, and all of you also follow the sanitization and social distancing norms seriously and make sure you and your families stay safe. And at Mold-Tek, I'm sure things will turn around. I'm confident, optimistic, but the scale of operations, how it will turn around cannot be predicted at this stage because the situations are beyond any one thought process or beyond anybody's imagination. So -- but let's hope for the best. And we are at least on a good cash flow situation, and we won't be needing any assistance or moratoriums from any of the bankers or departments. Hence, our operations will be moving smoothly. Only thing is the demand pickup. If the demand pickup happens, we can still come back to the normal levels from second or at least third quarter onwards. And our company will keep doing -- looking at new segments, new applications for opportunities to sustain the growth. And I hope next time when we meet over the call, we'll be in a much better optimistic mode. Meanwhile, all of you take care and follow the norms to maintain health and safety for all you and your family members. Wish you all the best.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Antique Stockbroking, that concludes this conference call. Thanks for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.