Momentum Group Limited ($MTM)

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Momentum Group operating update for the 9 months to March 2026. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this event is being recorded. I will now hand over to the group CEO, Jeanette Marais. Please go ahead.

Thank you. Good afternoon, everybody, and welcome to our operating update for quarter 3 of F 2026. I'm joined on this call by our Group Finance Director, [indiscernible], as well as [indiscernible] and [indiscernible] from our Investor Relations team. We're almost at the end of year 2 of our impact strategy and I'm very satisfied that we continue the positive earnings trajectory into the third quarter, reminder that our earnings target for this financial year at ZAR 6 billion, and we reported that normalized [indiscernible] earnings grew by 15% year-on-year to ZAR 5.5 billion at the end of the 9 months. This performance was underpinned by good earnings contributions across all our operating business units. Those businesses who had exceptional earnings in 2025 have maintained their performance and the others have shown strong growth. We are excited to see our India segment showing a positive earnings now there year-to-date, not just over the quarter. Net new business sales grew by 15%. This was supported by healthy investment flows in Momentum Corporate significant corporate scheme wins in [indiscernible] Africa and continued growth in Momentum Investments our platform. Single premiums grew by 15% following favorable equity markets while recurring premiums increased by 7%. [indiscernible] despite sales growing, our VNB declined by 4% to ZAR 347 million, and our new business margin contracted to 120.5. This decline continues to be due to the decline in VNB and Momentum investments following an industry-wide shift from [indiscernible] living annuities. This was partially offset by notable BNB recovery Momentum Retail and metropolitan line. Both businesses managed to lift their VNB to achieve the lower end of our target with Momentum Retail is 1.1% and metropolitan at 1.2%. Momentum Corporate and Africa's VNB margin improved, but it is still on the negative and [indiscernible] investments VNB continue to decline. [indiscernible] remains the most significant challenge across the group and will require extraordinary efforts and focus in the final year of the Impact strategy. Improving client experience is also a key focus in our impact strategy. This is not an easy dial to move, but we have started to see a significant shift in this financial year. We continue to measure our progress and have clear strategies for business to continue improvement how we make our clients sales. At 23.3%, our ROE remains well above the target of 20% that for the and it remains the highest in the industry, a testament to our capital management discipline. A big milestone for us is that today marks the first day of Momentum Half administering the [indiscernible] scheme. Just to illustrate the scope of this transaction. This is the biggest move of a medical scheme from 1 provider to another in the history of the medical scheme industry in South Africa. As from today, our annual value of claims processed on the [indiscernible] and pay to providers will increase from around ZAR 70 billion per year to ZAR 100 billion. That means to be process and place payloads with ZAR 275 million per day every day of the year. Of these 9 to 8.5%, there's 100% straight through and done by a system without any human involvement. We employed more than 500 additional employees [indiscernible] which take up a new building in [indiscernible] into after dedicated business and were opening 21 bespoke [indiscernible] walking centers across the country during June and July. We achieved all of this within 6 months. Finally, just on an outlook. The global operating environment in South African growth prospects remain under pressure, causing uncertainty for consumers and investors. However, these dynamics are not unique to us, industry peers face [indiscernible], and we believe that our diversified business model, disciplined capital management and robust risk management approach position us competitively to navigate this environment and to continue delivering value to our clients. These are factors outside of our control. We believe in focusing on what we can control, which is managing our business response to be competitive and to focus on growth. I'm encouraged by the excellent earnings performance we achieved over the past quarter, and we remain well positioned to sustain our growth trajectory, which is supported by our Federated business model. diversified earning streams, disciplined capital allocation and strategic investments in new capabilities, including the onboarding openings and the continued scaling of our India operations. With 1 year to go to the end of our impact strategy, we are proving that we are successfully executing our strategy, and we are well placed to meet our strategic objectives. We have seen improvements in VNB, but we continue our focus on improving VNB margin, driving sales volumes and managing our expenses. We look forward to providing further details at the Capital Markets Day tomorrow. I now hand over to Risto [indiscernible] a bit more detail.

Yes. Thanks, Jeanette. I'm just going to make a couple of additional points that when I read the operating update. I thought is maybe not obvious. I saw a comment on one of the analysts this morning referring to the ZAR 44 EV number we have in the segment [indiscernible] on the buyback. So actually the number from December, the closing EV at the end of March was 46.43 before the dividend that was paid in early April. . So it's meant to like 45 to 33 thereof and pretty back at about 46 now. So it just comes to EV, the [indiscernible] shares back was actually a little bit higher than I think people realize. That's which may be qualified to 25 [indiscernible] was the December number. The other thing is that on the sales side, Metropolitan is the only business where sales went backwards a little bit. And one thing I did check this morning is, the sales numbers are down 19%, yes, okay. That's 13% combined. The actual number of agents is down 59%. So on average, that's an average monthly number of agents. I think it's a great outcome. I have spoken before about just how much the cost of running that sales force is reduced and the quality has improved. I I think definitely a 40% reduction in the the size of the Interact versus 13% reduction in so is a great outcome to [indiscernible]. And it's pleasing because it shows you that sometimes when you take very drastic action actually pays off probably gives us confidence to look at further activities that will hopefully then [indiscernible]. I also noticed that there were some comments about the insurer and Guardrisk number has been a little bit lower in the third quarter. I try to confirm that there is only the investment return. So both [indiscernible] going to ensure to invest a little bit in equities. And obviously, the January to March period was quite poor for that. I can actually confirm that insurer had the best quarterly paying ratio in the third quarter. So there were some weather-related claims there, but it was still a great quarter in terms of underrunning. [indiscernible] risk is a very diverse business, but the underlying results were also very much in line with the first 6 months. So the level of a slowdown you see in quarter 3 is really the equity impact on the investment returns. There were some very positive comments on Africa. And obviously, we take good sales the business is showing some improvements in other areas. I do want to just point out that the new operating model, which we'll talk about more about tomorrow it is increasing the cost base of that business. So you need these volumes to be higher. And as we do the actual assumption changes at year-end, there might be some negative expense adjustments that we need to make. So maybe just moderate the expectation for year end there. And then very good news that all people picked up this India is not profitable on IFRS 17 basis. I don't really see a reason why it won't continue to be profitable and continue to grow those profits. I mean the business is still very fast growing. So if you want to do some simple math, we're growing gross written premiums by about ZAR 3 billion to ZAR 4 billion a year. That requires about ZAR 1 billion to ZAR 1.5 billion of capital to support that growth every year. And even if earnings pop up to a few hundred million, that's ZAR 1 billion shortfall that the shareholders need to make up in terms of supporting the growth. So we're probably looking at about ZAR 400 million per annum as our capital contribution for the next 2 years to support the growth even now the business is profitable. But it is a nice problem to have because we would love to have more business that require capital for growth, okay? So India is of our story. Yes. Beyond that, I mean, net already mentioned ROE remains at 23.3%. Very strong. We're really happy with that. Overall, there are a few new things. I mean it very exciting. I mean obviously, the India outlook is better, but at the very high level. I think we're extracting as much earnings out of the business as we humanly can, very focused on expenses, cost optimization. You'll see tomorrow a lot of usage of AI and making sure we're not behind the technology curve. Yes. The one concern to this absolute top line growth. Volumes are good. VNBs to be better from the earnings side, everything to develop. I think I'll hand back.

[Operator Instructions]

Yes, Mike, you can hear you. Sorry, we lost the call for a bit in the room.

Yes, apologies. I think I lost it as well. And well done on another really good earnings print. Just 4 questions, if I can. Firstly, your CSM commentary can -- sorry.

Yes, we can hear you, Mike. Go ahead. .

Yes. Sorry, on your CSM commentary, I just want to make sure that there were no estimate changes at quarter end. So this is essentially a product of new business and accretion and release rather than anything else. The second question, obviously, market is very turbulent at the end of March. Can you comment at all about the direction of travel for investment variances since March and what we should expect based on where we are today. The third question is around the guidance for the shareholders segment for the remainder of the year. Quarter 4, we saw a very wild swing from what was a reasonable quarter 3 to quite a big negative in quarter 4. Maybe if you can just give us some sort of comment on what to expect. And then the last question I've got around the momentum investment mix changes. Can you comment at all about the kind of you're earning on the weaker mix. In other words, I mean, I don't know if there's a way that we can calculate it, but if there's some sort of comment you can give as to what sort of IRR you generate on living in out versus guaranteed annuity volumes. Any commentary on that sort of basis would be great. I hope you heard all of that.

Yes, you got the things. Yes. I mean, Ryan, I was in great, but let's see if we can get through all of them. So I can confirm that there was no assumption changes. Obviously, there will be some experience variances that will impact the CSM and your market returns would have had -- maybe a bit of a weakening impact on the VFA component of the CSM. But to answer your question, no, there is no assumption changes. Investment variances I'm looking at here, the number -- the 9-month number was 540 million positive. I think what was the interim stage about 400. Yes, Okay. So there was definitely a positive quarter despite the equity markets being negative. And I'm just thinking now we had no credit default. So the credit spread an would have been a substantial thing. So think of it as EUR 100 million letter, EUR 150 million for the quarter. Your IRR question is interesting because I haven't looked at it recently, when I look at the IRRs on annuities, it was very high and payback periods are very shortly because remember, the annuities of commissions are also regulated to be only 1.5%. So the payback periods are very pleasing on the eye on the guaranteed annuities. I haven't done the same exercise for living annuity. I can do it for you. It will be very likely as good as the guaranteed annuities. But Ryan, I make an action point for me to look quarter. What was the question again?

In the prior year, we saw a large change from Q3 to Q4 in the shareholders' segment. I think that was largely driven by the VC funds. And so if you consider this quarter, I don't think your guess is as good as mine just in terms of those DC funds. But we have seen sort of write-downs on those. I don't know if Chris wants to give a little bit more color One thing, though, is that there is capital that is allocated to the business units, and they earn returns on that, and the shareholders earn returns on the free assets. So those are slightly lower for the shareholders from the 31 December capital calculations.

Yes, Robin, I agree with that. I mean the only thing else I can think about is, obviously, fourth quarter, we also only adjust for the bonus pool, but I think this year, I think we're pretty fully provided. At this moment, it looks like it's sufficient.

The next question comes from Marius Strydom of Austin Lawrence.

My question is with regards to solvency, we saw an improvement in your SCR cover from December to to March, and that was clearly due to impacted by the bond yield moves now. We've seen bond yields decline again sis March almost to similar levels where they were in December. But obviously, the issues with regards to the longer duration bond yields and the extrapolation may not be as extreme now as they were at 31 December. So the question is, should we expect a better. Should we expect a better outcome for SCR at June even if bonds remain at current levels? And number two, -- have you taken any steps and what kind of -- what your thinking around risk-based capital efficiency steps that may be taken going forward?

Yes, Mario. We'll expand a little bit tomorrow. But I mean, you're right. I mean, the capital ratio improvement from December to March probably half of it relates to the yield curve movement and the other half you sort of retained earnings. I'm actually thinking the SCR, the required capital, I think, in the last company fell by ZAR 500 million for money. [indiscernible] to ZAR 19.9 billion over the quarter. Yes, and [indiscernible] have a lot to do with that. Now I mean we still have 4 weeks to go before end of June, but I do expect the capital ratio to be better than it was in December. Now we the extrapolation impact is not as severe at the moment as it was in December. So hopefully, that remains on course. And that's obviously external to us, but it's a yield provided by the -- by our regulator. Now in terms of actions we're doing, we have been looking a lot in terms of how we calculate the what I mentioned actions are, how we model tax in the stress test, how we interpret certain of the standards. So we've done a lot of work on literation side of it. At this stage, we have not changed our hedging policies. We have been debating whether we sort of relaxed on that earnings hedging. Remember, we hedge the earnings as much as we can, which then means there's volatility in solvency. If we increase the solvency hedging, then will introduce earnings volatility because you can't hedge both of them at the tower hedge. For now, we have not increased the hedging on the solvency side. So we're still exposed to the same external events, but I think the SCI calculation now that we're interpreting some of the components, I think will yield a slightly more positive results. And then obviously, based on that, we will assess our own target for high quality liquid assets, which we set at ZAR 16 billion in December. I think it's more likely than not that it will be lower than ZAR 16 billion in June. But there is 4 [indiscernible] of those. So -- yes, but you're right. I mean we have to watch those yield curves and particularly the long end of the [indiscernible] curve.

[Operator Instructions] We have a follow-up question from Michael Christelis of UBS.

Sorry, I'm not sure if you can hear me. If no one else is going to ask, I want to ask about the Metropolitan margin. I mean I estimate it's about 2.5% for quarter 3, do you think you're now sustainably in that 2% to 3% range? Or what do you think the margin goes from here? Is there room for that to lift up towards the 4% to 5% range you've been targeting for a few years.

Most definitely. So we do expect it to improve further going forward. The actions we've taken have made an impact, but they will continue to make a bigger impact. And there's still a few adjustments or changes in terms of product features and basically the distribution models as well. So I do think that it can still improve. I think the 5% may be a stretch, but improvement definitely.

Yes, the team remain very committed and focused on the 5%. But I mean maybe we're a little bit more bearish on whether they're going to get exactly 5, Mike. But I mean, they're still making good progress. And we continue to track it and we continue to see the improvements they're making.

That's great to hear. And then maybe just a last comment. One of your peers made some pretty cautious comments around persistency and the expectations for the rest of this year. Is there anything you can say about what persistence you've done since quarter end given the fuel price hikes and your expectations for the rest of the year?

Yes. I mean I'm looking at the management reports here now. Obviously, there's a bit of a lag here. So we're still not seeing any worsening in terms of lapses. But remember, you can miss 1 or 2 payments and not lapse the policy. But I haven't heard of any -- well, there's no increase in lapses and I have not heard from the business that there's been a notable increase in the failed debit orders or stock orders. So it's 30 days. Now Mike, I think I had told you before that we tend to be a bit out of cycle because we had our own persistency problem several years ago. So we have implemented and continue to implement continuous improvements to our collection mechanisms and the quality of business. So we're tightening new business acceptance. We're improving our collection capability. We continuously hear that our business is a little bit more sort of lower middle market in the high and low even market. There are a number of factors why we might be different to is with some of the competitors. But again, the short answer to your question is no. I have not seen any management information showing higher lasts yet. It could still come because if I'm thinking of now we're in first of June, I probably had problem visibility of last to the end of April. The May [indiscernible] won't be through yet because they will try to double collect now and so on. I will say, Mike, that April sales were a little weaker than March. But I think that, that was more of an Easter effect because they came through strongly in May.

Seasonality [indiscernible]

Yes. I actually rent Mike, wait I want to brag quickly. I want to go to the metropolitan slide here. .

Yes. The total PCR is the highest since February 2021. How's that?

Okay that's our collection ratio. Okay. So all the effects we have done to improve our collections to date is showing an upward increase. Like I said, there's a lag in the state. This particular ratio has got a 3-month lag. And sort of how many of the premiums you collected in the last 3 months. So maybe it turns from here, but quite a particular picture as we stand here looking at the last 2 years.

What about retail affluent in MomLife, there was some deterioration there amongst your peers in quarter 4 last year. Are you seeing anything there?

Again, definitely not specifically significant. Now in my internal presentation on the results, I actually comment on improving persistency experience in Momentum Retail, Yes, the persistency and expense pieces were better in the 9 months in the previous 9 months. [indiscernible] said in March, so I mean -- and I haven't thing since then. Generally, the collections are extremely high in this market. I mean is premiums of exception rather than the norm. So they're very different to meet.

Our next question comes from Erik Perm of RMB Morgan Stanley. .

I have one question on costs. I mean your cost savings initiatives are starting to show up meaningfully in your direct cost growth, which rose just 1% as your savings initiatives on annualizing, how should we think about cost growth into 2027? And just remind us how you've dealt with these cost savings and the embedded value, especially with reference to the potential for expense variances at year-end.

Yes, great question. I should have actually had it on my bullet points. being quite busy today. So I have to prepare with this call a bit on the slide. But [indiscernible], I'm actually looking here, our costs in the January to March quarter was 4% lower than the same quarter last year and 7% lower than the same quarter 2 years ago. Okay. So our optimization project because it's sort of running over time is porting to have almost like a bigger and bigger impact every quarter that goes past. As we sit here, mean is always interesting because people want to bring expenses in before year-end. I think there's a good chance to end of that year-on-year from the current 1%, which will be better than we expected. I think we went into the year expecting 2% to 3% cost growth. Next year, we're budgeting for about 2% budgeted increases. If we continue to keep the focus, we might get closer to 0. I mean it's on continue forever, although like certain technological changes might give us a bit of a longer view right now. Okay. So the project is going well. In terms of EV, we have not allowed for anything beyond next year's budget. So next year's budget was used as a starting point for expense assumptions. And I think it means that in most cases, you might have slightly better expense assumptions than last year, ex Africa, where we have not implemented any more sort of the uncontrolled model, which means they have more expenses in Africa. But yes, it will definitely help the VNB and EV a little bit over the next couple of years. Remember, we're sort of we're pretty assuming about what or 5% inflation for the, let's say, 3, 4 years after next year. [indiscernible] coming out closer to 0, I mean, that's obviously quite a big impact, quite a big impact, but that ZAR 500 million a year impact 0.5 million versus 0. [indiscernible] [indiscernible] to some breathing space.

The next question is a follow from Marius Strydom Strada of ALG.

This time, I'd like to ask about Momentum Corporate. You mentioned with reference to guard risk and metropolitan insure that investment market had a lot to do with the slowdown. In the third quarter, we obviously saw a slowdown for Momentum Corporate as well. I think the energy for the quarter was ZAR 260 million versus ZAR 427 million in the first quarter, ZAR 449 million in the second quarter. I just wanted to understand how much of that slowdown was relative to 2 markets versus underwriting and other experience.

Yes. Yes, good observation. So corporate had a negative investment variance in the third quarter. Remember, the book is not as long-dated as the retail books and they also have a lot more inflation than liabilities. So the investment variances are not always in sync with the retail operations. So that has a small negative variance, which I also noticed that the disability and PHI experience is a little bit lower than last year. The mortality experience actually continues to look good compared last year and last year. I think last year, they benefited a lot more from IBNR releases than in the current year. [Technical Difficulty]

We have lost the main venue. Please remain online and the speaker will be joining shortly. Thank you, ma'am, you are back at [indiscernible] open again.

Okay. Yes, sorry, I missed everything after IBNR releases Risto.

I don't think I said anything valuable No. So I was just saying you're right. I mean the investment variance was negative because of different factors. And if anything there might have been a small decline on year-on-year claims experience, but nothing major. I mean, overall, the mortality experience looks really good still. The stability NPS are a little bit less exciting but still decent. .

All right. So ZAR 260 million as a quarterly run rate is lower than what you would normally expect.

Yes, it is. Sorry, I was just acted because the [indiscernible] guys just send me a message and they're saying, by end of April, the debit order experience remains exactly like the previous month. That has been 0 impact in April the orders in [indiscernible].

And then just a final one for me. Just with regards to Africa. Just with regards to Africa, I'd like to -- the third quarter was a loss of ZAR 48 million. Am I right? Can you just speak to that and the outlook for the full year?

Yes, I'm going to go there. Now generally, the results in Africa are a lot more volatile than in South Africa because we can't hedge the market exposures to the sending REIT it's estate impossible. We also invest heavily in government bonds there, and the NAV is quite large compared to operating profit. So the investment variance on well, investment returns on the NAV has quite a substantial impact on earnings. I'm just trying to go to my own notes here. . I mean it doesn't explain the loss, but remember the first quarter, which was very good for Africa still included a little bit of profits from Ghana. So we had sort of make exit profit on Ghana. I'm looking at the investment variances, what they would like Yes. Africa had a negative investment variance in the third quarter as well, okay? So that would play a role there. If you come tomorrow, I'll dig up a bit more detail on...

A lot of that is mark-to-market on the bonds as a result of the increase in interest rates.

Okay. So most of it is investment volatility then. Yes. .

The next question comes from [indiscernible] of SBG Securities.

Well done on the Indian business and turning into profit. It's clear that the business is starting to show improved operating leverage by increasing revenue at a faster rate than expenses. How I suppose just 2 questions there. Given that the combined ratio is still greater than 100%, is the strategy to gain more returns from investments than underwriting? Or is it just purely from waiting for the business to grow. And the second one through that is that the claims ratio increased 83% reflects an increase in benefit utilization. What is management's strategy just in response to that, if this is a continuing trend?

Okay. So first of all, the Indian business is predominantly annual premiums. So the float is quite big on this business. So I don't think you'll ever get a combined ratio much below 100 in fact. That's some calculation even at a combined ratio of 102, 101 will actually generate quite decent ROEs because the float is probably, I don't know, 2/3 of annual net premium. So the investment [indiscernible] can be very substantial. In terms of benefit utilization, I mean, we continue to do a lot of work like trying to get hospitals convert to only cashless claims. Very difficult for us to start fighting with the policyholder [indiscernible] with the hospital before they provide services. There's [indiscernible] a few industry actions also to trade data and so on in terms of wastage in some of the hospital groups. We're continuously refining our benefit structures. We actually find that we get better claims claims ratios on your higher thermocouple business. So that is a focus area for us as well. We're also moving me administration into our own offices versus third-party administrators. When we started, we were small. So we didn't have the scale to adjust upon doing everything ourselves. So we use third-party and administrators to handle the claims, but we find that we get better outcomes and we do it ourselves. So we're moving it in the house now. Yes. So the cans ratio is a big focus. I saw I hinted earlier in the call that I'm quite pleased with what we've seen recently. And part of this is also that there's a couple of listed competitors now. which have also been forced to increase their focus on profitability, which I think has made the whole industry a little bit healthier, and we're all benefiting from that. So the industry seems to be rationalizing a little bit from -- mean growth at any cost to being a bit more balanced between growth and profitability.

Does that conclude the questions, madam. [indiscernible] that conclude the questions.

Yes, that concludes my question.

Our next question comes from Thapelo Mokonyane of Investec.

So yes, I mean, I have a question, just 1 question. you probably are going to touch a bit on this tomorrow at the Capital Markets Day. But how should we think about share buybacks. Just given what has happened like what needs to happen for you to resume your share buyback through just talk to talk to that and just a bit of guidance on how should we think about it?

I mean the discount to EV is still quite substantial. So obviously, if you have surplus capital, I think our preference at this stage will be to buy back shares where we've been distributed special dividends. Now we increased our internal view of required high-quality capital, in other words, sort of cash and money market margin side from ZAR 11.6 billion to ZAR 16 billion in December. And that basically meant that we effectively utilize our surplus capital to shore up the capital agent of the life company. If we reduce the internal view of required high-quality liquid assets substantially in June, that might then result in sufficient surplus capital restock buybacks. I think it is a little bit early or premature to speculate how likely that is, but it is something we will look at the year-end. I mean, we look at it every 6 months, how much do we pay shareholders trusted our dividend policy or personal of earnings. And -- yes, [indiscernible] back would be up the first contraction at the moment.

So like -- so then there is possibility of clearing a share buyback program if everything stays the way it is today, like if we just read everything to the end of June, there is a case where buybacks are up possible that's what you see.

Yes. I think meeting is possible, and I'm trying to answer how to answer this as getting into trouble, but I think the last time we showed you. I think the last time we showed you how much sort of high-quality liquid assets we have, I think the number was about ZAR 18 billion and that was ZAR 16 million required and ZAR 2 billion discretionary. And we would like to hold sort of 0 to ZAR 3 billion discretionary capital to be able to do any midsized bulk on M&A as and when needed. Now if that required capital drops, let's say, from 16 to 14 and available cash flow grows from '18 to '19 and the markets on surfaces yearend. So I think that the calculation you have to do is how much will that ZAR 18 billion grow over the 6 months. And I [indiscernible] other thing will be enough. But that combined with possibly a lower view on required capital going forward, we might be by that. Yes. We always in anticipation to see the yield curve on 30th of June and earnings Earnings for the year as well. .

The next question comes from [indiscernible] Ankaoperatos.

Just a bit of color on your life versus Non-life earnings overall. Obviously, we know health is all life and ensure is all -- sorry, nonlife almost is but online. But maybe just within investments and shareholders, how is that split from Mylan? And then related to that, maybe just a bit of color around the strong earnings growth in the health business insurer business as well. I guess, where we've come from and given also what we've heard from some of the non-life insurance competitors out there -- this growth is ongoing and kind of surprising for me at least. So your non-life business is performing very well.

No, that's for sure. I'll ask the [indiscernible] one first. So if I look at the pretax earnings in Health the 3 quarters, you've probably gone like ZAR 100 million, ZAR 200 million, and the ZAR 20 million in the second quarter was a positive surprise because of some fee catch-ups. But the ZAR 200 million in the third quarter, I think, is quite normal because most of the fee increases come through on [indiscernible], but there's an increase in our revenues because of annual escalations on various contracts. . Also, [indiscernible] I had a look, I think the cost in beneath us was only like ZAR 6 million or ZAR 8 million in the quarter, a lot of that will come through in this last quarter. But the third quarter results that are here were still unaffected by the investment in to Bonitas. I see that, Rowan, just trying to switch for the covered noncovered split for you on investments, I do know that they're new to book at very strong results. There was no defaults and other variances were also positive. Yes, I have to remember the -- but I mean the asset management profit will have also been -- have we got the split there.

I was still looking for the shareholders split.

But look at the investments on that will be easy one. sorry, give us 30 seconds that we can open the details. [indiscernible] somebody's call that cost profitability covered [indiscernible] line. .

That would be helpful for me because I used us for the covered businesses. [indiscernible]

Okay. So covered with 779.

Which is [ 99%. ]

Yes.

120 for noncovered investments and ZAR 770 million for [indiscernible]. Good run rate compared with the first half of the year.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, [indiscernible] questions into question queue. We have reached the end of the Q&A session. I will now hand back to Jeanette Marais for closing remarks.

Thank you, everyone, for joining. I don't have anything much to the success to invite you again to join us tomorrow for our Capital Markets Day. We had all of our dry runs today. And maybe just one last thought, [indiscernible] was bragging so maybe let me do this. We actually realized today just by kind of looking at some of our numbers that considering the span of our businesses across retail, [indiscernible] and health markets, we now literally serve about 1 in 10 South Africans as clients of our group, which I think is quite an amazing number for us. Now of course, the take on beneath help goes, but we don't often share those kinds of numbers. And to be thinking that one out of every 10 South Africans are [indiscernible] the group something that makes us very proud. I [indiscernible] tomorrow, the team is ready for you. So I think it's going to be a good day.

Thank you very much, ma'am. Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today's event. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.