monday.com Ltd. (MNDY) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

This company is a very special company. You guys know, they traveled all the way from Israel. One of the most promising software, technology, SaaS companies to come out of Israel in probably decades, and I have actually traveled to Israel in search of tech companies in my prior life, and I know how special this is. Real delight to welcome the monday management team on a Wednesday. This conference has been amazing the last couple of days in case you've missed the vibe and the energy. I'm told it is the largest Goldman conference ever, standpoint of investors, companies presenting, number of one-on-one requests, just completely off the charts. And that's because of companies like you that - if we don't have the content, we don't get the clients. We have the content, we have clients. So with that, I'm so excited to host you guys here. I know you're a relatively new IPO. So I thought maybe we could first do a round of introductions and then 2 co-founders can take turns, maybe spending a couple of minutes telling the story. How did you get -- I always like to ask what was that aha moment. You guys are entrepreneurs. You founded this company. What was that aha moment that led to the conception of monday and the evolution of monday from an idea to a business? A quick recap, the salient points, and we can jump into questions. Is that okay? Introductions? All the way.

I'm Eliran. I'm the CFO of monday.

I'm Roy, Co-Founder, Co-CEO.

And I'm Eran, Co-Founder and Co-CEO together with Roy.

Wonderful. So who wants to take a shot at the conceptualization of the idea? And what made you come up with this concept?

Yes. I can start. So first of all, I think Roy and I have kind of a similar background. We're both engineers and we build products since we were kids. And the idea for monday came from our evolution as we both had startups prior to monday. We worked in various tech companies. And we used a bunch of software to manage our teams and we saw the teams using software to manage their own team. And we always felt that while the software was really great for that kind of team-specific needs, we always knew that we, as developers, we have the superpower that we can build our own tools or kind of shape or modify the tools that we're using. And when we started the company, we came with this idea of we want to build a new generation of tools that will help companies manage. From a kind of top-down view of the market, people often ask us, when you started the company, there were so many other companies trying to solve this problem. But when we look at that market, it just felt so empty because when you think about what's the go-to solution today of companies managing their business, their processes, there's not like one company you can point on and say, this is the number one company that does that. This is the company that everybody is standardizing on or something like that. So it felt like a huge opportunity. But our kind of concept was we don't know what's the best way to manage. We're not sure we have, you know, the best way of how you manage processes or teams. But maybe we can give the superpower of building your own tools and modify them and given the flexibility that we have to everybody else. So the idea beyond monday is to offer this no-code/low-code platform that allows everybody to build their own tools, no limitation, no rigidness in the software. Just build whatever works to your own company instead of trying to use a premade vertical rigid kind of off-the-shelf product.

Maybe, Roy, you could pick up from there. The key aspects of the story, maybe a quick recap and what has changed, and then you can jump into the more detailed – oh, I did write it down, the aha moment behind the founding of monday. So it's not ad-lib. It was something that -- did you write this, the aha moment. Wow, she reads my mind. The cofounders, it works.

Yes. So I think like the most important thing for us was that it would be easy to use, like what Eran said. Like we give people the power, but then you know, if it's difficult, if it's not like super simple, then it won't fit through to everywhere. And that's been core for us since the beginning, but it's something that people really understand. And so the go-to-market we adopted was that people will find the tools they already know and start there, like project management, like CRM, like a lot of other stuff. And then they figure out, like, hey, I can change this to be anything and add more tools. So I think that's something that is like fundamental in how we build it, but it's like simple, yet powerful. And I think that's new in enterprise sales.

Great. So -- what -- where do you want monday to be, let's say, come back to the Goldman Sachs conference 2027. We hope you do, and we hope we have a conference. We hopefully will have something called Wall Street by then - with what happened yesterday, but I'm optimistic, I'm very optimistic. How are we going to look back at monday in the next 5 years? And what are your aspirations for the company? And how do you get there?

Yes. So like Eran said, we see a massive opportunity in front of us. And you have to be humble. It's like I think the opportunities - like people really need the ability to control what they do and control their destiny and be able to actually manage things the way that fits them. And I think everyone will have to use this kind of tools, right? Like any company on the planet will -- it's so powerful. And once you kind of like start doing it, once you get -- we call it the aha moment with monday, like you start with like management or..

You too! You too! Aha. A lot of songs there. Musically oriented.

Eliran is one.

The Norwegian band, A-ha.

Correct. Yes, I remember watching it live, Grammys.

If you are in the age but anyways...

I am.

And so the moment you get it that you can build whatever you want that you can control it, that you can change whatever you want. And that's like the moment we're aiming for. And I think like everyone wants the super power once they get it, and I think it's going to change like the face of software and work software. And that's where we're aiming. And I think, like let's say, a few years from now, I hope that everyone will understand that. Like we are now just like in a place that no one is looking for like, I want to build my own tool, something on Google, right? Like they are searching for problems they know have solutions. We're still like in that mindset. And if I look like 5 years ahead, I think -- and we'll start seeing it now. that companies are asking us like I want capabilities and not solutions. Like I want to build stuff. And I think 5 years from now, it's going to be everyone if we...

So, Roy and Eran, when you started the company, project management was a pretty well-established category, right? So despite the fact that you have a very flexible tool and it's LEGO blocks and not the prescriptive toy. How did you gauge the competition whether its Atlassian, Microsoft, project management, Asana, those guys were there when you launched it. So you knew you could differentiate your way. So is it the technology or something about the use case that makes it different because you knew what you were doing, I mean you're up to a revenue level that you're going to be exceeding Asana pretty soon, maybe in the next quarter or 2. That doesn't happen overnight. So what - give me the conviction that you still could find a wide space in a really crowded market? And I think investors would still consider it to be a very crowded market and they're surprised that you got to where you are. And what was your thinking behind?

Yes. So I think, first of all, there is a misconception about this being a crowded market because it still feels like a huge greenfield. Even think about everybody here in the audience. Is there a tool of you're using to manage investments or analyst coverage, even managing this conference? There's still such a huge vacuum in.

Yes there is a tool. It's called Excel.

Yes, exactly.

Email and Excel.

But why Excel is the solution because it's flexible and it's tailored to your needs. And I feel we're kind of tapping into an endless opportunity that people still don't realize that there's such a huge vacuum right now in the market. And when we started this journey, a lot of people ask as, "Oh, so this is another project management tool". And we try to explain this to investors, I think that's one of the misconceptions about monday, people confuse the go-to-market from what we actually offer as a tool. Project management, the way for us to go-to-market. CRM is a way for us to go-to-market. But certainly, what we are selling is this flexible platform. And I think even today, when people judge competition and compare us to other companies. They compare our go-to-market with another company offering as opposed to compare the potential of the company and what it can grow into. And I think that's something that when we kind of look at competition, we look at it in a very different way. So first of all, 70% of our deals are totally greenfield. The 30% we do see competition, truly depends on the vertical on project management. We want to see a senor Smartsheet that you mentioned. But people often start using money the CRM. They'll compare us to Pipe Drive or HubSpot or Zoho CRM. So it really depends on the vertical. And we don't look at any of those companies as real competition because what we are building is something fundamentally different.

Got it. Do you want to take a question?

Yes. So taking the other side of that, right? So if we think about the fact that there's still such a greenfield opportunity and you guys are offering this flexible platform. How do you think about doing that investor education or customer education market education around your product? What it can be without necessarily really also missing the pockets, right? Like if you're going to spread yourself across project management, CRM, how are you really focusing around which customers to go after and what they're going after that opportunity?

So I think we're always trying to take the natural path instead of like trying to force something that people don't look for, like we're trying to be there for what they are looking for and understand. And then there is -- and like Eran said, it's like greenfield, like people are looking for stuff. They are not happy, okay? Not with the CRM and not with project management. Most of them are switching from spreadsheets still. And so we're trying to be there for them when they are looking for something and give them the best-in-class solution. So like in project management, we're best-in-class. We were striving to be best-in-class like compared to all like all companies that are doing only that, okay? And CRM the same. And we built the company accordingly, like we have dedicated teams that focus on each product and that's their world. And you know - and I think that makes a difference. And so when customers meet us, they see that it's the best solution for what they look for. The second stage is that they say "okay, I can do a lot of other stuff", and then we help them kind of get to that point.

Got it. I have one for Eliran. It's notable that the company has not burnt much cash, and we'll come back to the technology and all, but I just want to keep the cycle going here. Just walk us through the dollars raised to date, how much you've used up and a brief recap of the financial model, why the net retention rate is improving so impressively for the company? What's driving that strength? I'll come back to the long-term financial model later on after we get through some technology.

Sure. So from inception, we raised $970 million, $234 million in the private market as a private company in $736 during the IPO, all together $970 and we are now with more than $830 million. So we burned since inception around $140 million, and we generated almost $4 in terms of ARR for every $1 that we burn because we said that by the end of the day, we're going to be around $500 million in revenue. And this is goes back to, when Roy and Eran established monday, very early days, when there were only 6 employees, they created a system called BigBrain. BigBrain is a BIC that's actually measuring everything that we do. Everything that we do, every investment that we are doing, we're looking at the return-on investment, the unit economics. And this is why, for us, we are very proud of the unit economics that we have even in this category versus other companies. So you know the numbers of the competitors, and we are, by far, ahead of that curve. I think the second thing with regards to net dollar retention rate, we said that once you land in.

Just on the first point, the financial discipline, tell us a little bit more about how that operates in the company because it's rare to see a company at your scale focus on financial discipline. It's more Silicon Valley attitude is let's spend and build big GTM engine to go after the TAM? And how are you different in that regard?

They have me. I'm joking. They were actually disciplined from day 1, thanks to the BigBrain.

We actually care about free cash flow before it was popular this year.

But anyway, I'll give it to Roy and Eran. I mean with BigBrain and with the hybrid model that we have, so it goes back to the financial model that we have in monday. So other than, you know we were, -- if you look at us 4 or 5 years ago, we're a performance marketing company, every dollar that we spend on sales and marketing was performance marketing, by and large. And then they came the aha moment and we created the sales-led motion, sales partners and customer success managers, which now represent more than 50% of the company. I think the evolution of the company, understanding that banking only on performance marketing is going to change. So we created this self-organization. We're actually driving the expansion within existing customers. So if you think we are landing within a customer, -- it usually started bottom up with 5 employees or more. And the expansion is so quickly because of the quality of the monday solution because of the functionalities that are so different from the other competitors. So, I think the combination of the fact that we measure everything, and we are looking at unit economics and efficiency. The fact that we have BigBrain that actually give us this data fully transparent within the company. You mentioned financial discipline. If you go in monday offices, everything is on screen. They are very transparent with the employees. We're actually measuring ourselves, and we don't scare to fail and continue. Meaning, if we did something and it didn't work, we try something else. We don't go back and say, "Oh, let's kill ourselves for making this decision". So the agility, our ability is to kind of continue...

I feel that way about yesterday, this move in stocks.

Yes, let's move like kids when they fall. So it's really this is the way we operate. Subscription model, 99% recurring revenue or more close to 100%. And you know if you think about growing the upmarket, so we are improving all the time the product. So our ability to go upmarket with enterprise accounts that -- more than 150% NDR for customers with 50,000, and we grew 147% year-over-year coming from bigger -- higher numbers. This is a combination of us driving this through the sales partners and customer success managers as well as improvement in the product and the level of innovation. There is a lot of innovation going on because we know that without innovation, you die eventually. I think these are all the things. This is -- I don't want to sound like a cliché, but this is embedded in the values of monday from day 1. Agility, flexibility, innovation, efficiency, metrics, look at them all the time and continue and, you know, in addition, we don't want to be reactive to what's going on, especially in now geopolitical and macro economy. We think in advance. We have a low case scenario, base case scenario, high case scenario. We don't want to be surprised. We try to be profitable on what we do, where we stand. And this is the way we manage the business. I'm a veteran of 2008 and even then before 2001. So managing in a crisis is something really important for us as well. So this is all taking all this together with the level of, you know, discipline that we have in the organization is creating a truly prudent way of us managing the business.

Great answer. Love it. Absolutely love it. Yes, go ahead.

Just following up on that. You know, we just talked about how the green - the greenfield opportunity lends itself to people looking for your platform and looking for the solutions that you offer. So how does the upsell motion that's driving the NRR? How does the selling motion change when they're already on your platform? And then you want to spend more? And then, Roy, I think just following up on the previous question. you talked about how you have very focused groups. So how would you say you have the distribution of your R&D teams might differ between invested -- focusing on the platform or focusing in on CRM, project management and other pockets of growth?

Yes. So I can start with the first part about the -- you asked about the upsell motion. So from day one for us, it was very important to create a tool that can be adopted from the bottom up. Because we felt this is the right way to build a tool that's intuitive, easy to adopt, and we both engineered. So, we're not -- maybe not the best salesperson on the planet, but we know how to build products that people actually love. So this is our strength. And this is what we focused on because we feel that this is the right way to build products. But I think something that we didn't expect was just to see the variety of use cases because initially, we thought maybe our customers will be tech companies or tech-oriented companies. But the fact we have so many different verticals across so many markets were surprising to us, people managing hotels, airplane manufacturing, assembly lines. It was, you know, very interesting to see. But you saw those people which are not IT professionals start to use the tool. And then what this created was an upsell opportunity. We -- when we built our sales team, it was basically because our customers ask us, I want to extend this to more departments and if you guys help to show us how we can do for the marketing department, for the R&D, for the product department. So, we created this team that basically one of the salespeople in the company when she started, she told me that it's the easiest sales job she ever had because she doesn't call - cold call customers. It's not trying to sell forcefully sell them the product. They're already using it. They loving it, they're engaged. They're just offering more people within the organization. So we actually call our team a consultancy group. So it's more about consulted them, how they can expand the usage to more departments. And they feel more natural. It's not like a top-down decision where the CEO or CIO need to force people to actually use the product, it's more kind of organic growth that we offer.

And regarding the structure of the company and how we like -- where do we put the R&D investment. So the vast majority is in the platform. And within each team that does like separate products or separate solutions, they build building blocks essentially in packaging, okay? They help the customer journey and add more value in building blocks. Like I'll give you an example, for project management, we added a really good Gantt chart and that like on the project management product. And for CRM, we have a deal flow. And that's like just another building block on top of the platform. And basically, it's an open platform. We have an open API, open everything. So everyone can develop whatever they want. We just happen to package it so customers really like it and then pick up from there.

At this point, are you still playing in the white space between CRM, project management, SDLC, et cetera? Or is there a view that you might actually directly enter the CRM space or marketing automation space, et cetera?

Yes. We are in the CRM. Look at the reviews in G2 Crowd. We were amazed how fast customer reacted to our solution and said it's really good. And looking back on it, I think we entered with a very mature product from day one because we kind of probably had one of the best mobile apps. We have integrations and automations built in ahead of time. We have -- basically any structure you want, you can do, and that's key in CRM. Like you have multiple teams, multiple regions, multiple projects. You can set it up however way you want and most CRMs like are not that flexible. We are. And so very quickly, we were able to be, I think, one of the best rated solutions.

That was actually quite surprising because one of the reasons we realized a lot of people are upgrading from their this is CRM to kind of the next level of solution than it might be Salesforce. It's not because they don't like the user interface or it's something within the existing products. They just kind of scale and now they want more flexibility because the organization is a bit different or they need a bit more complexity. One of the most amazing feedback that we got was that we're as flexible almost of Salesforce, but very intuitive and people can do the actual customization on their own as opposed to use professional services. So I think when you think about enterprise software and in general, people adopting software in complex use cases, it's mostly about having the option to customize their needs. And I think we as a platform offered this benefit from day one in a very intuitive way, which I feel is kind of a super power for us as a company.

Got it. So in these cases, are you working alongside a CRM system like a Salesforce? And how do you make Salesforce look better, or do things that you wanted to do, but only monday can do?

Yes. So it's a great question because we're in the CRM space and Salesforce, as an example, invested in monday in the IPO.

Yes.

So like we're...

They were here yesterday. Marc was here yesterday.

So our goal is to be like the best partners with Salesforce. Like when you look up into the enterprise, we have a lot of great solution around Salesforce like connecting it to the rest of the organization, doing a lot of projects and filling out the white space around that. And we invest a lot in the Salesforce integration. And I think like below Salesforce, like the mid-market SMBs, so I think there, we're going to be the most dominant one. So we're not trying to replace every tool on the planet or win everyone. We're trying to connect everything. And where there's a gap, you know, we'll get in and be the solution. Where there's not a gap, like in enterprises, we'll be the connecting tissue with the integration layer, with like even adding processes, adding transparency around information. And with Salesforce, we're actively trying to keep them -- to be the source of record for everything. Like everything goes to us, goes back to them. So you can do -- like our customers are doing it. It's very easy. So, like I think, again, it's because of the flexibility of the tool that we can pick different go-to-market to different segments and be there in those 2 apparently contradicting areas, but it's not.

And use cases in -- do you foresee use cases in ERP, HR, et cetera? I think ServiceNow talked about -- [ Gilly ] and I attended the ServiceNow user conference a couple of months back. And they're going to be offering their no-code/low-code platform for ERP finding white spaces. Do you have plans like that? Or is CRM going to keep you busy for the next few years that you don't need to?

We're going to focus on additional verticals. In addition to the CRM, we also launched kind of better versions of monday marketing and monday to R&D. It's still in that kind of product market fit stage. I think CRM is more mature. But a big part of our strategy is to continue and package a product completely for those verticals. And the long run maybe have a long tail, maybe that will be created by third-party partners that can help us additionally add additional packages in the platform. So definitely, this is a big part of our strategy.

But it's like important to note that our customers are doing that today. Like they can do that, and we have a lot of customers that are like doing a lot of entire processes, doing ERP stuff. They're doing it. We just haven't gone around to package it and reach the mass market and actually market ourselves like that. But once you get it, like a lot of our customers are doing that, and that's why we know we're good at it because they already are doing it.

So I'm going to ask you the dreaded question. Everybody asked Oracle back in the '90s, are you a platform or are you an application?

Both.

That's what they said. [indiscernible] Oracle. Platform or application?

We're a platform, and we package the platform as applications. And that's why we call it work OS, right? Like you -- the platform is the work OS itself. But then you need the products on top of it, like what's an OS without applications. So, we're building some of them, but our customers are building whatever they want on top of it as well.

Yes, please go ahead.

On the go-to-market I mean [indiscernible] especially with the new in-person and enterprise Salesforce compared to [indiscernible].

I'll repeat the question for webcast here. So it's like how our ROI on performance marketing went over the time? And is it...

And the enterprise and I would relate that. You can talk and I will relate to this.

So basically, like Eliran mentioned, we have BigBrain, we measure everything. And for us, performance marketing part and the return of it is the time that we said that it will be. Like it's whatever we want and then kind of -- and that's how we do it, and that's how we maintain cash flow. So it remains pretty much the same. And I think with the addition of the sales team, it actually improved. -- okay? Now it's like very stable and flat over like the time period we set. So that's like in terms of efficiency. And we're also -- as we mature, we're adding more different go-to-markets to interpret maybe that's what you.

Yes. So Alex, by and large, we are -- 1/3 is performance marketing of the total S&M spend and about 2/3 is sales and motion, sales partners and customer success. If you think about performance marketing, COI, time return on investment dollar and dollar, less than 12. Some sales processes are delayed in some places, you can get to 18 months in average for the blended. But this is the range that we are comfortable with. So does this answer your question?

I have a question. If I went to your office and asked BigBrain, what is the state of the macro economy and what our customers saying?

You have to press on the button.

Yes. You have Siri and it's pretty easy.

So it's good to mention now that we issued a shareholder letter in the last earnings, and there is a movie, 2 minutes about BigBrain. And I recommend to people to look at this because it's really phenomenal what we did there, and I'm not taking credit, I didn't do it. It's the developers who do them. I'm just enjoying that. But it really helped us to look really -- again, it sounds like why should we believe you. Come and visit the monday offices, walk on the floors. We have 15 floors. Look at how many screens, how many data points we have, and you understand the way it kind of trickles down to the last person that is doing all this analysis.

I do want to get back to my question about the macro. But you don't need to mention names, but have investors been -- U.S.-based investors been to your offices in Israel?

Yes, we had a few investors.

Any of them here, you see.

We met a few of them yesterday.

You have a big time. Invitation open. So what is BigBrain telling you about the status of the macro economy, close rates, pipeline, sales cycles? I'm sure you have -- you've built an extensive monday implementation.

Yes, I think pretty much in line with what we mentioned in the last earnings call that we have. We see 2 things. One is currency exchange. So that's affecting first of all renewals. So basically, we have, I think, 30-something percent from Europe as revenue. So all those contracts, whether they are in euros or British pounds, when they renew, it basically translates to a different dollar amount than what it used to be. So, that impacts a little bit our MDR, a little bit about the revenue. So we estimated that to have some impact this year. And the second part is mostly what we see in Europe, which is longer sales cycles a little bit. Sometimes we see the CFO more involved as compared to what we saw previously, more the negotiations. It's really hard to quantify this effect, but I'm sure have some percentage of effect. But apart from this, something that we're very happy. When COVID-19 hit about 2 years ago, there was this blip in the market and then everything took off. Now, I feel that the market for -- the way we view it has been pretty stable. And I think this is a testament to the fact that monday is a core tool. It's not a nice to have tool. I think a lot of companies now, the CFO is going through a process. Let's review the SaaS stack that we're using. Maybe there's some software we don't have to use. Maybe we can reduce some of the things that we use. I think we're in a position as a company where a lot of the conversations we have now from -- with the sales team is about consolidation, about maybe we can get rid of that HR tool and put it on monday. Maybe we can use this digital management software that we're using, we put it on monday because the organization knows that monday has many capabilities. Maybe they didn't have the motivation before. But now where kind of the economic situation is more successful, we see an opportunity there.

Yes. And I can add on the opportunity that I think now maybe like COVID, like it opens up people. For like, I think, 6 months ago, people were like, let's buy something and like I don't want to disrupt that part of the organization. I don't want to change, like just solve me that problem. And I think now everyone is open. Like even the employees, the companies themselves, they're open for change because they understand they need to. And I think that's a great opportunity for changing things, obviously. So like you said, we're optimistic.

And if we do see a further deterioration of the macro environment, how should we think -- how are you guys thinking about deploying a recessionary playbook? What might that look like? And how might that shift some of the prioritization that you have?

Yes. So as I mentioned earlier, I'm a veteran of 2008, and you know, you have to get ready. So we did -- when we did -- even earlier this year, we planned the year. We took a number of scenarios. And we want to make sure we're always -- like we were never like growth at all cost company. It was about sustainable growth. And all of the things that I mentioned, I don't want to repeat them like BigBrain and measuring everything. These are the things that are kind of leading us to the level of investment that we are doing. We believe, therefore -- nevertheless, we believe there is an opportunity. So, while we are kind of planning our spend in a different manner that maybe is more into a recession kind of scenario, we are investing where we see there is a return because this is an opportunity. And companies now should take that advantage. In my mind, companies that believe there is an opportunity should take the advantage of building for the future. So we manage it in accordance with our long-term plan, but we do tweaks where we see the opportunity or some risk.

I wanted to talk about some of the newer start-up companies like potentially the future mondays, like Airtable, et cetera. So I know that you have a very good differentiation story to talk about relative to the older work management platforms. What is your perspective on VC-funded start-ups that are also eyeing the space like an Airtable or whoever it is? I mean there are a few more. How do you build resiliency against those start-ups? Like you were able to take a shot at the old guard.

Yes. So I think from a personal perspective, I must say that seeing those start-ups is great news for us because back in the day when we started the company, like investors didn't get it fully, the story. But now I feel that companies thinking about the future of software like Airtable, Notion is another example, that there's confidence that the future of software doesn't rely on rigid software. The future of software is to give that true power, the accessibility to people. And I think over time, we'll see more and more startups doing that. I think everybody is taking in different paths. You know, Notion, for example, might be taking kind of more of a personal use case. Airtable is more focused on, from what I saw, on databases and kind of more technical IT. And we want to be kind of the next software that everybody uses on a day-to-day thing. They run the core of the business, the software that everybody uses to do their daily work. And that's fine. Everybody is taking a different path. But I think all those companies are the companies of the future, the companies that will build the next generation of platforms with this new technology that enables everybody to use their own tools. So I think this is not a market where the winner takes all, but a new era in how people use software, and there are going to be many winners in many aspects of that market.

Yes. And it's important to add that we don't really see them in any of the deals. It's like those ones you mentioned, like we're not really day-to-day competing with them on anything. It's a greenfield market, and I think it's just like the early stages of the market, okay? So it's not time for consolidation. It's not time to fight. It's time to build the category and gain market share, I think, for everyone. So it's -- we're not in a winner takes all.

How do you guys think about pricing? Obviously, your early mode, you want to get as many customers as they can, but -- how have you thought about that? And like maybe now there's so many players you have to keep a price point in a similar range. But how do you think about pricing over time and potential for higher price?

Yes. I think those new products that we presented, specifically the CRM really present an opportunity here to do an upsell to existing customers and raise the bar because right now, when we only had like one platform and people use it from any use cases, we had one price point. And we can add to the line to what we saw in the market. But the CRM market, for example, has a total different pricing point. So I think those new products present an opportunity. Customers that are willing to pay already we have differentiated pricing for our CRM. The customers are willing to pay extra because they compared it to other tools in that market. So -- and we'll do the same in other categories we're penetrating to. So those present new opportunities for upsell.

Yes. And -- but the major growth engine we have right now is growing within even our existing customer base, not to mention the new ones. So I think we have like in the foreseeable future, that's like where we put the growth and we'll model everything for us.

One minute? I mean it's too short for me to ask question. The question itself will take a minute, but why don't we wrap it up.

You ask your question...

Okay. So yes, sure. The financial model, free cash flows. You said we have free cash flows wired in BigBrain -- when you look at the project management space, the names being mentioned, there aren't a lot of free cash flow generators out there. What makes your model different?

So I think this is one of the questions that probably most of the investors are worried about. I think what's in it for them? I see why should I believe you that you are going to be this category to generate the free cash flow that generate this growth because we were kind of disappointed in a way from other companies. And I'm sure some of you have this on their mind. I think we -- if you look at Atlassian as a company, this is like North Star for me as a CFO, a company that has been there, has a killer app, generating around 35% free cash flow every year with the growth of 35%, 40%, around 60%, 70%. So this is where we are heading. So, I said that H2 of next year, we are going to be cash flow positive, sustainable. There might be periodically some fluctuation, but this is definitely the direction. And I think the efficiency, BigBrain, everything that we said in this call, this is what's driving us, and we are very focused on this. This is like we are focused on growth, but equally focused on generating cash flow.

It's great to have role models. I mean I have role models and great that you have the humility to accept a good business model out there. And Atlassian is going to be presenting later on today. So with that round of applause for monday, special round of applause.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you for having us.