Moody's Corporation (MCO) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

All right. Good morning to our U.S. clients. Good afternoon to U.K. and to anyone in APAC. Well, I'm glad you're still awake. But my name is Manav Patnaik. I'm Barclays' business and information services analyst, and we're very glad to be hosting our Americas Select Conference again. Unfortunately, it is virtual. Hopefully, next year, it'll be in person. I know we said that the prior year as well, but let's hope this time we're right. But either way, we're really pleased to have all our companies with us still attending the event. And especially right now, we've got Moody's, and representing Moody's is Rob Fauber, the CEO. So firstly, thank you so much, Rob, for being here.

Manav, thanks a lot for having me. And I agree, it'd be great to be able to do this in person at some point in the future.

Exactly. Rob, you're not new to the investors. You've been at Moody's for a while, but you did take over the CEO role this year. And so perhaps just with that context, could you just talk about your path at Moody's and kind of what got you to the CEO role firstly? And then maybe just an extension to that would be, do you think you're going to bring any notable changes compared to what we're used to at Moody's?

Yes. Manav, you're right. I'm on -- into my 16th year at Moody's, and I started managing our corporate development group, and I did that for about 7 years. It was M&A and strategy and was involved in setting up the Moody's Analytics division back in 2007. Then I spent about 6, 7 years in the rating agency, first, managing sales and service, and then managing the rating agency for 3 years. I spent the last year during the pandemic as the Chief Operating Officer, so I had responsibility for both operating companies and then took over as CEO at the beginning of this year. Yes. So the first thing I might say, Manav, is I've been around, I've been involved in the strategy. I've been involved in the acquisitions in our businesses. So I think people should know what to expect. I don't think there's going to be any radical change in what we're doing. But I would say that we're very focused on capitalizing on this risk assessment opportunity that's in front of us. And I think in our -- since the beginning of the year, you've heard me talking about investing with intent to grow and scale our businesses to be able to enhance our capabilities to meet the -- really the evolving needs of our customers because over the last year, our customers' needs have really, in fact, changed. And we can talk a little bit more about that. I mean they're having to manage a wider range of risks. And that means that we're enhancing our capabilities so we can better serve our customers' needs. And you've seen us make some very deliberate and purposeful investments in some of the areas that -- high-growth markets that we're serving, things like know-your-customer and private company data, commercial real estate, climate and ESG, just to name a few.

Yes. I think the risk assessment piece, those areas you just called out have actually finally been more prominent part of investor conversations. And I do want to touch on those before. But at the end of the day still, I think a lot of the focus is on the rating side. So maybe we can just get through those questions first. And the first one is just the typical kind of issuance update from your perspective. Every year, we talk about tough comps. We talk about pull-forward issuance. It seems like the same story every year. But for -- somehow the issuance universe digs its way out and finds new sources of issuance. So maybe just talk to us on just -- perhaps just the current term, but I'm also just more interested in just the outlook. Like are the secular tailwinds you guys talk about still in place?

Yes. Maybe let's start there, Manav, in terms of how do we think about what drives this business over the kind of medium and long term. Because you're right, in any given quarter, we may face tough comparables. From time to time, we've had market volatility that has paused issuance in -- or in certain sectors or in certain regions. We've seen that in the past, and we've managed through that. But ultimately, the structural drivers of this business are around economic growth. And certainly, we're in a period of economic recovery and growth in almost every place around the world. Some countries are still dealing with the grips of the pandemic, but others are seeing meaningful economic growth and recovery. That then leads to business investment and M&A activity, and contributing to the strategic M&A activity is all the money with private equity firms and sponsors that they're now putting to work. So we're seeing a lot of LBO activity and dividend recaps and all sorts of other things in that market. We're seeing an improvement in the leveraged finance markets, again, tied to an improving default outlook, tighter spreads and economic recovery. And Manav, I guess I would say I kind of stand here and think -- and you're right, we've guided to, obviously, issuance being slightly down for the year. That's an updated guidance in the first quarter. But as I think about kind of the medium term, there's been a lot of debt that's been issued by corporates, by sovereigns. So you look at the refinancing walls that are out in front of the business, you think about the economic growth, you think about the ongoing trends of disintermediation, and I still feel very good about the medium-term structural drivers behind the rating business.

Got it. And just thinking about it a little bit more longer term, though, the algorithm on pricing and GDP being a proxy to volume and then you have kind of loan disintermediation, et cetera, how -- I guess maybe it's an unfair question, but how early are we in that innings per se? Or is it just something that continues and evolves?

In terms of what some of these opportunities are with these different growth driver?

Yes.

Yes. I mean, look, as we think about our own coverage, you might think of that as market share, but our own coverage of the global markets, we have pretty comprehensive coverage. That's one of the things that makes the Moody's rating so valuable to investors and to issuers. You're right. There is an ongoing pricing opportunity as we continue to enhance the value proposition in regards to our ratings and our research. And we've been, I think, clear about that kind of -- on average, kind of 3% to 4% across the company in any kind of given year. That feels like it remains intact. And then, Manav, as we think about what are other ways to be able to grow that -- the rating business. So you want to capture at least your share of global issuance, right? You want to be able to have some pricing -- ongoing pricing opportunity. And then we look for other ways to develop products that serve the needs of the market that may not be tied strictly to public issuance. So an example is, over the last few years, we rolled out something called a Private Monitored Rating. That gave us the opportunity to have a rating relationship with a company that wasn't actually issuing debt. And that then allows you to get forms of growth that go beyond just public debt issuance. The other thing I would say, Manav, is there's the cross-border market where, again, we have very comprehensive coverage. But then there are the domestic rating markets, and some of those are kind of big enough that they start to matter. You think about the size of the Chinese domestic market, India, Korea, other markets that have relatively sizable or more meaningful domestic local currency bond markets. And so we've had a strategy to make sure that we have a presence in those markets as well.

Got it. And in talking about those emerging markets, obviously, the one that attracts anyone's attention is China. And your competitor has obviously been talking a lot about how they've grown there. So maybe just talk a little bit about your China presence, your China strategy and how you guys think of it, whether it's a massive opportunity or not.

Yes. I guess I'll -- Manav, I'll start with ratings and then kind of expand beyond that. But in terms of ratings, just to level set, there are really 2 different rating markets, right? There's the cross-border market that we serve through Moody's Investors Service. That's the market opportunity that, I think, a lot of people are familiar with. We have a very strong presence in that. In fact, you can see here the pie. The circle on the left side shows our share of that cross-border revenue opportunity. You can see we've got, it looks like 42% share of what's almost a $300 million revenue opportunity. So we have a very solid position in that market. That's large Chinese companies issuing typically in the U.S. dollar cross-border market. Then you've got the domestic bond market. You can see on the left side that the Chinese domestic bond market has become quite a sizable bond market in its own right. That's the local currency market. And there are different ways that you can address that market through ratings. One is through a greenfield operation, and you alluded to our competitors. Several of our competitors have chosen that route. We invested in the market leader in the domestic ratings market called CCXI all the way back in 2006. And you can see CCXI's position in the right circle here in that market, also about a 3 -- a little over a $300 million revenue market. With CCXI, we estimate, it has something like a 40% share of that market. It's pretty sizable. They have a lot of rating relationships. They've been in that market for 15 years. And we have a 30% stake. We have coordinated with them on go-to-market strategies. And I think my general view, Manav, is that working through leading Chinese institutions in very important industries like the rating industry is a good path for us and for the success of our broader China strategy. So we -- you can see we've got a lot of blue in those 2 circles there. We feel pretty good about our presence in both markets. And then we're thinking about -- we also have a business that goes beyond ratings. A good bit of that is around what you think of as the old Bureau van Dijk, but we call that the Orbis business, the private company data and know-your-customer and being -- all that data being used for a variety of use cases. And then there's an emerging kind of green finance and sustainability opportunity in China. It's a very important focus for policymakers there. We invested in a business several years ago, a called SynTao Green Finance. And I got to think of that is the same move we made years ago in getting into ratings with the Chinese institution and buying a minority stake. And so we're thinking about how do we coordinate -- we're not thinking about. We are coordinating and working with SynTao and others in the market to help serve the needs around green finance and sustainable finance.

All right. That makes a lot of sense. The -- in terms of broader ratings, not just China, right, one of the other differences in your structure is kind of the more transactional nature of your ratings business as opposed to one of your competitors has got a lot more frequent issuer programs, I suppose. Just talk to us a little bit -- I mean I think a lot of that was historical preferences, but maybe it's the right move. Just how do you think of that?

Yes. I think in general, Manav, if you have a view that global debt markets are growing, and you heard about my view that over the medium term, you've got structural growth drivers that we think remain intact to lead to growth in bond markets. Although at any given year or quarter, we may see a decline, right? I understand that. We think that, that's a good strategy because we think it maximizes kind of the economic capture of the growth in the market. In fact, we had a little bit over 2/3 of MIS' trailing 12-month revenues for the -- as of the last quarter was transactional. And the other thing I'd add, Manav, is as you can imagine, it's not easy just to switch those commercial constructs around. This stuff takes months and months and months of planning as we go, as we think about our pricing. And we have, in some cases, multiyear customer relationships and contracts. So we're not making shifts based on maybe 1 quarter or a 1-year outlook on issuance. We would only start to evolve that approach if we thought there was a structural change in the growth opportunity in the global rating markets.

Okay. That's fair enough. That's a good answer for me. And just with respect to the margins in the ratings business, it's obviously been a high performer for many years. Can you talk to -- and I know you guys still even continue to make efficiency improvements, right? I think you've talked about using AI in your municipal reports and so forth. But just talk to us what the margin outlook in the ratings business should be.

Yes. So Manav, we guided to 61% in the first quarter. And if you think about them, what that implies over the balance of the year, it's something in 57% to 58% margin. And I've always said when I get asked this question that I think there is some incremental margin opportunity in the rating agency. But I also think by definition, it's relatively modest. Because look at the absolute level of the margins. When you're talking about roughly 60% margins, there's only much room to continue to improve. But as I think about it, there are things where I think there are incremental margin opportunities. Some of that will lead to a modest improvement in the margin over time, and some of that, we're going to reinvest back in the business. Maybe just to give you a little bit of a sense of that, Manav, in terms of where we see the opportunities. Obviously, we're very focused on leveraging technology and augmenting the capabilities and efficiency of our analysts. And we still have a number of things that are done manually across the firm, and we're working very hard to automate as much of that as we can. We rolled out something called a Lean Six Sigma operational design center a couple of years ago. And the reason we did that was to really reengineer and streamline our internal business process to make it as efficient as we possibly could because that then sets us up well. Once you've reengineered business process on some of this stuff, it's then much easier to automate. And so we have built out a technology development hub down in Charlotte, North Carolina. We have great access to talent -- development talent that's used to working in regulated industries. There are obviously a lot of banks and financial institutions in that area. So that's allowed us to get a little bit lower-cost access to development talent in Charlotte. So those things are really making us more efficient and allowing us to reduce the cost of operations. But then we're reinvesting some of that, right? So when you think about how we're reinvesting, first of all, we continue to want to make sure we have the most experienced analysts in the industry. And I can tell you I've met with a lot of customers over the last year, and issuers and investors all tell me that they really appreciate the experience of our analysts. Imagine, when you're in a cycle like we were in over the last year, you want somebody who understands your industry, understands your company and understands credit cycles. And I think the experience of our analysts really showed very positively over the past year. We're also investing in areas like ESG and climate and even cyber. We have a small cyber risk team that we've built out over the last few years. I mean I'd like to think we were kind of ahead of the game on this in thinking about cyber risk at issuers and how it translates to credit risk. And so those are the kinds of things that we're -- places where we're reinvesting because, Manav, part of how I think about competing in the rating agency is through relevance. And to be relevant, you've got to be a thought leader. You've got to -- your views have to matter in the market. And so that's one reason that we're really focused on being a leader in spaces like ESG, climate and cyber.

Got it. That makes complete sense. And I guess one of the questions is your margin profile has always been good, but it still sounds like there's a lot of process efficiency that can be made, right, with the use of technologies and so forth. So perhaps just on a high-level, broad scale, can you just talk about some of the initiatives ongoing in terms of whether it's cloud, AI, what -- how active is Moody's on that front?

And Manav, now we're talking at the -- across the whole corporation, yes?

Absolutely.

Yes. So one thing I mentioned is around process redesign and efficiency, and that's mostly going on in the rating agency. And that's because this is a big regulated business. And we implemented a business process, and now we've had an opportunity to get to rethink some of that and get more efficient and then even start to automate that. But then as you think about the automation opportunities across the firm -- and by the way, Manav, these are also similar opportunities to serve our customers. You think about the spreading of financial statements that we're doing, same issue our customers are dealing with. And so I'll give you an example. You asked for an example. We developed something called QUIQspread, and you may have heard me talk about it on some of our calls. But we've got banks who are all having to spread financial statements off of PDFs, just like we are internally. And so we developed an AI-driven platform to be able to spread those financials and map to a customer's chart of accounts and really reduce the spreading time, not only the time but obviously also the cost for our customers. Those same kinds of things we're leveraging across the organization. Another example, we've leveraged a natural language generation platform that allows us to write, I'd say, kind of basic information annual research on infrequent issuers in the municipal space using only data. So this is using a database and then applying natural language generation capabilities to be able to provide research and annual reports that our customers find useful. That's a great utility for our investor customers who get an annual update report on infrequent issuers, but it's also a big-time savings opportunity for us in terms of leveraging that technology. So we've got things like that going on, as you'd expect, all across the firm.

Got it. Let's talk about some of these analytics, the analytics business basically, and some of these investments that you alluded to before. Maybe we can start with ESG, just because we just hosted MSCI earlier today as well. But just talk to us about your ESG initiatives and kind of the investments and how to think about the broad scope of ESG offerings that you guys have at Moody's.

Yes. And I'm going to start, Manav, by kind of talking about what does the market want and what kind of solutions are being provided and where do we fit into that. And you can see we flash this up. So I kind of think about it across 3 different areas. But you think about the way this industry has evolved, it's grown out of the equity markets, right, as yet socially responsible investors who wanted to use ESG data and scores for portfolio construction and portfolio monitoring. And from that, you've had an index and ETF businesses created. And that's a big part of the ESG opportunity today. We've then gone out to our fixed income investors and said, "What do you want and need?" One of the things we've heard from them is we want to understand how E, S and G impacts creditworthiness and, in turn, credit ratings specifically. So this starts to get to credit materiality and financial materiality of ESG factors. So inside the rating agency, we have developed -- are developing a suite of tools and ESG credit impact scores to answer exactly that question for investors. So yes, we have a stand-alone ESG scores through a company called Vigeo Eiris that we acquired several years ago. That competes more broadly with the MSCI offering. But inside the rating agency, that's a unique product, serving a very distinct need from fixed income investors. You're also seeing issuers who are increasingly wanting to engage with an organization to understand the methodology. And they're wanting to face off with someone, again, Manav, who understands their industry, who understands their company and who understands ESG. And so that's an opportunity for us around sustainability ratings and second-party opinions serving the needs of our issuers around sustainable finance, green bond and social bond, sustainable bond issuance. So that's an area that is growing for us. And the last thing I would say, Manav, that this is something that makes us different. We don't have an index business to monetize the ESG content, but what we do have is a very significant risk management and risk assessment business. And there's demand from across our customer base, banks, insurance companies, commercial property investors, corporates, to integrate ESG and climate data and analytics into our offerings. So for example, banks who are underwriting commercial loans using our origination platforms, wanting to understand the climate risk of the collateral they're taking; commercial property investors wanting to understand the physical risk related to the properties that they're investing in; and even banks that are using our stress testing solutions. We have one of the leading bank stress testing solutions in the world. The Bank of England has recently mandated green stress to us. So our customers are coming to us and saying, "Hey, Moody's, how can you integrate climate into your stress testing solutions to help us meet these requirements from our regulators?" So Manav, I think what you're going to see is us continuing to monetize this ESG and climate content. It's going to be across the entire organization.

Yes. That sounds great. I mean we saw you just launched your climate offering out there, so that all makes sense. In terms of the Moody's Analytics strategy, I know earlier in the call, you talked about the risk assessment opportunity, right? And I was hoping you could just help us understand the collection of assets that you have in the analytics business, how those all fit into this broad strategy.

Yes. You've -- on our fourth quarter earnings call, we talked about and we showed a graphic. It was kind of a wheel that showed a set of risk assessment end markets that we are serving across Moody's Analytics. And we estimated -- here it is. We estimated that collectively, those end markets are something like $35 billion in total addressable market. The largest of those risk assessment businesses is the rating agency. It's helping investors assess credit risk, right, with fixed income instruments. But we've -- as our customers' needs have evolved, Manav -- and this kind of goes back to my opening comments, right? Our customers have started to have to manage a wider range of increasingly interconnected risks than ever before. These -- they're not managing these things in silos, and they're having to deal with everything from financial crime compliance to carbon transition risk, and certainly, cyber and data security. And so we've been building out our capabilities. A big step in that direction was when we acquired Bureau van Dijk back in 2017. We acquired the world's largest database on private companies, and that is serving a range of risk assessment use cases. The kind of largest and fastest growing of those is what we talk about often is that know-your-customer market. And so we've been continuing to make investments to better serve that market opportunity. And just over the last, call it, 14 months, we acquired RDC that gave us real depth in all sorts of people data. We acquired Acquire Media, which gave us all this adverse media and AI-curated media monitoring; and then most recently, Cortera, which continue to build out our private company data. So that's the way we kind of see this is increasingly, Manav, we've got a set of -- a huge set of data and analytic capabilities that is serving a range of risk assessment use cases, and that data and those analytics are being used across multiple use cases in different ways. And so we are really focusing on the interoperability and integration of that content so that we can mix and match the data and analytics to meet the needs of these different markets.

Got it. And all the organic investments, I think, in a market kind of called out the investments in the last call as well. But as you said, over the years, you made a lot of these acquisitions, right, BvD, RDC, REIS, Vigeo Eiris, Four Twenty Seven, you name it. So can you just talk about how you're envisioning the kind of M&A pipeline of tuck-in deals, which has been the case, maybe there's medium-sized deals? And I don't know if your appetite for larger deals changes?

Yes. And I'll share with you [ one inning ], too, Manav, because the way we think about our M&A strategy is we wanted to be advancing our overall risk assessment strategy and helping us better serve the needs of our customers. Those needs, as I talked about, they've been evolving and changing. And there's -- that's creating more opportunity for us to serve our customers in a wider variety of ways, right? And so we recently were talking to someone at a large European bank. And they said, "Hey, as we're thinking about our customers, we're focused on really assessing 3 things. One is, can I onboard an organization as a customer? This is sanctions and financial crime compliance, right? Can I even do business with them. Second, are they going to pay me back? And third, are they a sustainable and reputable organization that I want to do business with?" And historically, we've been really doing a great job of serving our customers in regards to, am I going to get paid back? Now there's the opportunity to do more. And so that's what's been driving us to build out these capabilities, whether it's organically or going out and acquiring the data and the analytics to be able to serve our customers and then start pulling those together in a way that's really useful for our customers. So that's how I think we're thinking about the ongoing M&A strategy. Is it advancing our risk assessment capabilities for our customers? Is it helping us to build scale in high-growth end markets, right? The exciting thing now about Moody's is it's no longer just about credit ratings and research, but there's a great financial crime compliance, KYC, private company opportunity. We're building out a commercial real estate opportunity. We have a really well-positioned enterprise risk solutions business serving banks and insurance companies with really nice rates of growth around recurring revenue. And how do we continue to build out those capabilities, fill in product gaps and build further scale in those high-growth end markets? That's what's driving our M&A. And last point, Manav, you're right. Bureau van Dijk was -- it was a nice-sized acquisition because it was big enough that it moved the needle for us and got us into a new space that we felt was going to be important with our customers. The smaller bolt-ons, I tend to think of that almost as outsourced product development, right? We've just -- we're filling in a product gap, bolting it in. And to get better and better at capturing business value faster, we've set up a dedicated integration management office so we can really integrate those bolt-on acquisitions with some real speed.

Got it. But just to clarify on the larger deals, we were seeing a lot of those across the space now. And I guess the financing environment is ripe for those, I suppose. But just -- I mean it's not changing your competitive dynamic. Or is it tempting you to do something similar? Just wanted to clarify your thoughts there.

Scale for the sake of scale, that's not tempting me to do something larger. Obviously, we're paying attention to what's going on in the space. And I acknowledge some of the transactions around us do have some, I guess, what I'd call attention-grabbing scale. But Manav, we -- ever since I've been at Moody's, we've been very disciplined around what we buy, what the criteria are, how we're going to get a return and how is this going to move our strategy forward. So if there are Bureau van Dijk-like assets that will advance the strategy, we'll take a very hard look at those. Like I said, that was a nice-sized acquisition for us. It moved the needle. We set up that integration management office so we can get better at digesting this kind of diet of bolt-ons that we've had. But I wouldn't say, Manav, that the tectonic plate shifting around us has made us feel like it's impaired our competitive position or materially impacted how we think about M&A. We're going to keep being active. We're going to keep finding opportunities that drive our strategy forward and enhance our opportunities to serve our customers.

Got it. All right. That's good to hear. So let's move on to BvD for a second, and we have about 5 minutes left here. But -- so BvD has done better than I think what a lot of us is expected, and perhaps internally as well. But can you just help us or the audience appreciate, what are the growth drivers? Like what are the building pieces to that impressive growth that BvD has been showing thus far?

Yes. Manav, ye of little faith. Yes, it's a great business, and it's done very well for us. Maybe let me talk a little bit about some of the growth drivers in that underlying market. I think that's a little bit of what you're getting at. Why is this market growing so quickly? And I'm going to talk specifically about kind of KYC and financial crime compliance. First of all, I think you've got COVID that's just accelerated the digital transformation in this whole space, right? And historically, it's been a pretty manually intensive -- like many other things going on in financial institution, a pretty manually intensive process to do all the customer vetting. And you see companies -- I go back to this phrase, more efficient and more effective. We are absolutely seeing banks want to do that in this space. They want to get more efficient, but they also want to get more effective. They want to have more precise filters in ways that they're able to zero in on individual entities. Second, you've got regulation that just keeps evolving around this stuff. And now you've got -- you see a focus, even with the Biden administration, around supply chain and better understanding supply chain. That's going to drive more demand for all of this private company data. But you've got new regulations that are expanding the -- I'd say both the number and the nature of the kinds of stuff that companies are required to look at when onboarding customers and also monitoring their customer relationships. So social risk, tax crime, cyber, and you're going to see some -- I think, continue to see some meaningful regulatory kind of tailwinds around cyber going forward. And then third, Manav, their financial crime continues to get more and more sophisticated, right? And that, unfortunately, is a growth industry in and of itself. And it's tied in, in some ways with cyber, but that requires smarter solutions. And so you've got customers wanting to -- you've got out financial institutions wanting to better understand not only their customers but their customers' customers and then needing to merge their own internal data with our data and leverage some very sophisticated AI tools to be able to figure out where they need to drill down. All of that is contributing to the growth that we're seeing in that market. And Manav, you've seen the -- what we've talked about, mid-20% growth in our own business, and those drivers are contributing to that in addition to, I think, the pretty compelling portfolio of solutions that we've put together for the market as well.

Got it. And just to be clear, I always had faith in BvD. It just -- it's growing better than my faith. So that's impressive.

I always want to exceed expectations, Manav.

Exactly. Just one quick follow-up on BvD. At the time of the acquisition and over the first couple of years, it's a very heavy European asset. And those plans of trying to leverage Moody's footprints to make U.S. a bigger part of it. Can you just update us on where we are there, what the opportunity looks like?

In the U.S.?

Yes.

Yes. And I don't have the data for you at hand, Manav.

Okay. That's fine.

But with the acquisition of RDC, that gave us a much more meaningful customer footprint in the United States. And RDC and Bureau van Dijk together are part of that kind of one-stop shop that we have created around KYC and financial crime compliance. Then we added Cortera, which added data on another 35 million-plus North American companies. They're small from a revenue standpoint, but it added and reinforced a lot of our North American content. So those couple of things, I think, have positioned us well to continue to expand into that and grow in the U.S. market. And we've also been working very successfully across our sales teams in a kind of a joint go-to-market strategy around all of that, and that's resulting in us being able to pick up leads and customer opportunities in North America that probably weren't going to be available to us before. So we feel very good about how all of it has kind of come together.

Got it. Maybe last question since we're almost out of time is, I think there's a lot of exciting stuff to talk about on the analytics business. And I think all the pieces finally seem to be coming together and scale for us to appreciate that. Still, obviously, most of the activity seems to be tied to your ratings business. Do you -- I mean just given the quality of the ratings business, do you think that'll always be the bigger chunk of your business? Or is there a vision that analytics could match up in size?

So the great thing about the ratings business, it's a wonderful business, and we're going to keep reinvesting in it in every way that we can, Manav. And it continues to grow, right? We talked about earlier the growth drivers. But there is -- I think there's more market opportunity as we think of -- as you think about that $35 billion, Manav, that we think about total addressable market, part of that but a minority of that is ratings. The bigger part of that is the rest of those risk assessment use cases. So I think you're going to see that part of the business just continue to grow and grow and grow. And back to that point of we're going to invest with intent to grow and scale those businesses so that we can have market-leading positions in some of these high-growth end markets. So I think that's what you can expect, that I think you'll see an ongoing kind of evolution and shift over time.

All right. Got it. Well, Rob, look, we are out of time, but it sounds like there's a lot of exciting things going on. I think you're taking over at a good time, clearly. So thank you for your insights and looking forward to tracking all the good progress.

Manav, as always, it's great to spend time with you. And I appreciate you inviting me to this conference. It's good to see you.

All right. Thank you, everybody.