Motiva Infraestrutura de Mobilidade S.A. (MOTV3) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for standing by. Welcome, everyone, to the earnings call for CCR S.A. to discuss results relative to Q4 and the year 2022. [Operator Instructions] Before moving on, we'd like to say that forward-looking statements made during this conference call concerning the company's business outlook and also operating and financial targets are based on beliefs and assumptions on the part of CCR's management team and also on information currently available for the company. Forward-looking statements are no guarantee of performance, as they involve risks, uncertainties and assumptions as they refer to future events, and therefore depend on circumstances that may or may not materialize. Investors should have in mind that overall economic conditions, industry conditions and other operating factors might affect the future results of the company, and thus lead to results that will differ considerably from those expressed in these forward-looking statements. I'd like now to turn the conference over to Mr. Waldo Pérez, Interim CEO, CFO and IRO. Please, Mr. Pérez, you may carry on.

Thank you. Good morning, everyone. I would like to once again, thank you all for participating in our earnings call where we discuss results for Q4 2022 and the whole year. Here with me today, we have Flavia Godoy, our RI supervisor; Douglas Ribeiro, Caue [ Steves ] and Caique Moraes, also from our IR team. It's with great satisfaction that I'd like to communicate that we took important steps in 2022 towards new accomplishments around our strategic ambition, including growth, capital discipline, vigorous governance criteria, high engagement on the part of employees, a diversity and inclusion program and also our social and environmental commitments. We have over 17,000 direct employees, focused on creating better, safer ways for society. The year 2022 was marked by a recovery in the economy and an improvement in our operating indicators relative to human mobility. The worst of the sanitary crisis brought on by COVID-19 is a page of the past, with the 3 modules where we operate reaching relevant numbers, our businesses showed to be resilient to make this crossing. The choice of projects based on discipline in capital allocation was key in this journey. After important accomplishments, we now operate to consolidate our airport operations, also highways and urban mobility throughout the year 2022 that add up to over BRL 22 billion in investments across those 5 projects for the coming years. We have concluded throughout the year, the divestment of 2 assets in our portfolio. And we have announced in December 2022 the sale of [ SAN]. Deals that reinforce our continuous focus on portfolio management, capital allocation and value generation. In 2022, we also celebrated an agreement with [ the City ] of Sao Paulo, which brought to an end over 50 legal cases in favor of the concessionary company. With that, we understand that we have extended our term for AutoBAn through December '27. With that, we have made payments of BRL 1.2 billion to the state government of São Paulo and also hired different high-scale works such as the [ Bar way ee ] and junction, the [ Mynikay ] junction, which has been delivered, the [ Osma hospital suracaba ] junction also delivered, in addition to the doubling of the marginal highways here and [ Costela Branqua ] [ and ] ViaOeste. Those were measures to bring the legal cases to an end as parties acknowledged the irrevocable way that those events happened. Throughout 2022, we also signed important agreements with concessionary companies [ named ViaOeste, SPVias VLT ], Metro [ Bahia ] and BH Airport coming from negotiations that establish a very fine economic and financial balance in addition to preserving legal safety and ratify this long-term partnership with the company and with the concession [ concession ] powers, and the commitment to build the more infrastructure. Additionally, we saw the arrival of 2 main economic groups in Brazil, [ Puturatin ] and Itausa, who have joined us, making our governance even more robust, putting an emphasis on long-term investments. Our investment strategy remains geared towards Brazil and the models where we operate, which have received investments of BRL 2.7 billion in 2022. I'd like to highlight that we have maintained our focus on training teams and also on investing in modernizing our structure, especially Lines 8 and 9 of metropolitan trains. As it has just been announced, we saw no surprise. It only showed the state of degradation of the lines as they were received in the past by us. It's important to emphasize that we're still in the first year in the contract of a 30-year contract. And our objective is to bring the operation to CCR level so that our clients can receive quality service, predictability and safety. The concession contract contemplates investments of about BRL 4 million to recover the infrastructure. And this will happen, especially in the first 3 years of the contract. Those investments include the acquisition of 36 trains in the first block of 16 units [ we will provide ] in February for testing. And about 2 months after the arrival of a series of trains, they will be incorporated to our current fleet. Also worth mentioning that in the first year, the concession, the amount invested added up to BRL 1.2 billion, in addition to the [ granting of ] another BRL 690 million. And a few important improvements [ are were ] the management so that you can understand the high complexity level of this operation. [ In maintenance window ] is only out 3 hours because we need to turn energy off during the night so that we can work. Some interventions that were made with all those investments were the replacement of 2.5 kilometers of rails, correcting 217 flaws detected through a distance of 34 kilometers. We also inspected and fixed 100% of the aerial network or grid, adding up to 187 kilometers. We also cleaned and fixed 848 air conditioning units inside the trains, which represent all the AC machines. And also [ cleaned ] the equivalent of 65 soccer fields in addition to the revitalization of elevators and station structures. That's just a bit of what we did. It's a long list of integrations. Just wanted to highlight all those improvements, because they were important in our portfolio of improvement. For the RioSP, we have maintained excellence in service on [ the Duca ] Highway and for the PR [ 111 ] from Rio to [ Watuba ] in addition to the recovery and strengthening hillside when -- during this period when we have phased and struggled with heavy rains, we had dedicated our attention to better service, creating a hotline for users with traffic inspection and mechanical support, [ pre ] hospital service and also via WhatsApp. We also closed the year with all the infrastructure ready to start operating in the free flow. First payment system with no toll plazas in Brazil. The pilot operation has started in BR-101, and we expect to start charging in March 2023. That shows our pioneering spirit and also our ability to innovate. As for the airport upfront, after mobilizing [ break on ] 16 airfields simultaneously in a never-before seen operation in the world continue to invest in what we understand to be essential for the cities and areas or regions where we operate. We identified areas to faster local market. We are also modernizing the respective infrastructure of the [Technical Difficulty] to invest in a year, we have brought about important innovations for [ the most ] airports and airfields. We have delivered [ 26 ] new destinations, including international destinations, including rental service, Santiago and Monte Vidal. CCR airports already has 189 routes. And with the end of the pandemic, we see very positive outlook for this segment. Because of this strong cash generation and robust financial position [ continuing ] to improve, we paid out BRL 778 million in dividends. And we closed a quarter with a cash position which is quite comfortable, and we have presented a leverage as measured by the net debt/EBITDA 4.7x, stable when compared to 1.6 of Q3 2022. With the purpose of optimizing the management of our debt and to increase the duration of our debt, it's worth mentioning that CCR has already started working to restructure the long-term financing lines for 2023 and 2024, especially those coming for -- products that were acquired in 2021. Recently, we contracted a financing line of BRL 4.6 billion through BNDES for [ PM indaje in ] Lines 8 and 9 of urban metropolitan trains. BRL 2.5 billion of that total will be cleared through infrastructure debentures, which will be sustainable with the certification coming from BNDES once those resources will be applied in transportation models of low carbon emissions, the largest green infrastructure debenture issuance in the Brazilian capital markets so far. The controlled leverage level allows us to continue to implement our growth strategy. We are optimistic about the outlook for new projects, which are in our pipeline. Any new project will follow the usual due diligence we always apply to our [ strategy ]: rigorous criteria and discipline as we allocate capital for those projects. From the social governance and environmental law perspective, we have conducted our first ESG forum to present results of our sustainability targets. The initiative reinforces a transparency level [ we want to ] impose in our environmental platform, which follows our ESG guideline and is structured across the company. As part of this agenda, I'd like to invite you all to our second ESG forum, which will be broadcast online on March 30 at 10:00 a.m. In line with what is expected from the Paris Accord in terms of climate change management, we have publicly committed to reduce our gas emissions and have submitted our proposal of decarbonization, targeted at the SBTI, science-based target initiative. And we have adhered to the net zero emission, an initiative made by UN Brazil global pack or Global Compact. With that, we are now the only company in the infrastructure industry to have be part of [ the government ] so far. Before I finish, I'd like to comment on a subsequent event, which was the signing of the agreement at [ Arcus ], which is in its final phases. The objective is mainly to continue providing services after the concession contract is over, given the state deadline of 4 months to conclude the studies and conduct a new bidding process for a new concession. In addition, we're defining amounts and timing terms and also operating costs. Lastly, as presented annual results released as we're getting close to the end of the concession and there is [ in that ] sense of future economic benefit. And that's a requirement, of course, for expenses to be qualified as [ inaxid ] investments on ViaOeste for Q4 2022 [ were ] described in another line. So the company will adopt the same accounting treatment for the balance of those investments we made. I'll now turn the floor over to Flavia Godoy, who will go into detail of our numbers for Q4 2022.

Thank you, Waldo. Good morning, everyone. I'd like to highlight the main figures as for 2022 for Q4. Once again, for its [ second basis ] number, we have excluded new projects and nonrecurring effects, as detailed in our results release, our press release. As for quarter highlights, the traffic of vehicles on the same base saw a growth of 1% when compared to Q4 2021. That traffic performance on the same basis is the result of the growth of 1.9% of light vehicles and a slight drop of 0.1% in the traffic of heavy vehicles when compared to Q4 2021. In terms of airports, excluding the South and Central blocks, the growth was 16.9% in the period for Urban Mobility, excluding ViaMobilidade. In Lines 8 and 9, the growth came out at 22.5%, this the same period for comparison. With that, net revenue on the same basis, reached the level of BRL 2.6 billion in Q4 2022, accounting for an increase of 10.8% when compared to the same period of the previous year. Adjusted EBITDA on the same basis, excluding nonrecurring items, has increased 17.6%, reaching a level of BRL 1.6 billion. Now a bit about costs. Total costs saw an increase of 28.4% in Q4 2022 when compared with Q4 2021, and reached a level of BRL 3.2 billion. At the same comparative basis, cash cost on the same basis, excluding all the nonrecurring effects and BOS reached BRL 1 billion, representing an increase of only 2.4%. And IPCA in the period came out at 5.8%. Speaking a bit about EBITDA, the same basis EBITDA, we had an increase of 17.6%, with a margin of 61.1%, an expansion of 3.6% as for the EBITDA margin, excluding only the nonrecurring effect from VOS of BRL 470.9 million and the extraordinary provision for RodoNorte of BRL 340 million, concessions which have come to an end and divested. And therefore, we included in this calculation, concessions recently acquired, which have contributed to generate cash and will remain in our portfolio. With that, the adjusted EBITDA for [ SRS ], that you can call recurring EBITDA, will come out at BRL 1.9 billion for Q4 2022 and BRL 7.2 billion for the year 2022. I'd like also to highlight the extraordinary effect that we had for ViaOeste because of the recognition of about BRL 470.9 million for expenses recognized in the Others line and that were used to build improvement works that do not generate future economic benefits, and therefore are recorded as costs because they do not meet the criteria of intangible assets, and thus affecting the net profit. That amount already includes the reclassification which happened in this quarter, for provisioning effects for impairment of about BRL 222 million. Because of the nonrecurring effects coming from RodoNorte and ViaOeste, CCR saw a net loss of BRL 217 million when compared to a loss of BRL 133 million in Q4 2021. On the same basis, and excluding nonrecurring events or effects, net profit amounted to BRL 219 million in Q4 2022, which represented an increase of 36.3% vis-a-vis the first period of the previous year. In Q4 2022, we have invested BRL 916 million in some concession companies. As a highlight, we could mention Rio São Paulo, ViaMobilidade Lines 8 and 9 and ViaSul. As for the RioSP, investments were focused on recovering payments and on implementation of safety devices. For ViaMobilidade Lines 8 and 9, we invested mainly in acquiring the new trains. For ViaSul, we invested mainly in doubling some sections in the 386 highway, and also in recovering the soil and also implementing or installing safety devices. We now have time for questions and answers. Over to you, Operator.

[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Guilherme Mendes from JPMorgan.

Waldo, Flavio. Questions about capital allocation. Number one, thinking about optimizing your portfolio. Waldo mentioned the sale of some smaller operations, and you also have a project pipeline at the PPI phase. How do you plan on balancing those investments, especially noncore activities and also in terms of capital allocation? A bit about the buyback. How do you see buyback going forward? I think you are now at a good [ digit ] as an alternative to return resources to shareholders. Thank you for those 2 questions.

Thank you, Guilherme, for your questions. Both are related -- have to do with capital allocation, both. #1. As of recent, we have repeatedly revisiting the performance of all our assets. Some are defined as noncore. And as I mentioned before during my presentation, we have already divested from those noncore assets. There are 2 other assets which are well known and are now in the process. One is Barcas; in about 2 years, we go through a different new bidding process and then MCVia (sic) [ MSVia ]. And we are still negotiating with the authorities to have a new bidding process for the concession. Having said that, there is a constant review, as I said, of all assets that we hold, mobility, airports and highways, those are the core. But any specific moments, it might make sense for the company to try and monetize assets or even whole portfolios with either partially or fully. And those decisions are made depending on the circumstances of the moment, and also depending on the strategy we want to follow in terms of capital allocation, and of course, on the potential returns we could win. Because at the end of the day, decisions need to generate value for shareholders, correct? As for buybacks, that's another point we're also taking into account, and that is part of a broader discussion. In terms of using the company's cash, which is a recurring concern on our side. The executive management, the teams, the Board, we always need to analyze where to allocate our capital investments: in new concessions, paying out dividends or if we do that by buying back shares. All those alternatives are repeatedly revisited and all decisions are made, as I said, based on our perspectives to generate increasingly more value to shareholders.

Our next question comes from Henrique Simoes from Credit Suisse.

Flavio, Waldo. I'd like to ask about investments of BRL 8.5 billion that you mentioned. This is a considerably high number. You usually do a little less. How much of that amount, BRL 8.5 billion, will be invested this year? And how much of it will depend on bureaucracy and longer processes to be executed? So how much do you expect to use in the short term?

That has to do with what had been delayed from '22 to '23. And you are right, when we work to plan for the year, for the 5-year plan, we work on a budget that contemplates all the contract obligations we need to fulfill and also, for some cases, investments we think are necessary, but for which we need authorizations. In the past, when we look at our last track record, more recent, something about 70% to 80% is what actually eventually is invested. Last year, for example, most of investments, if not all, the ones have been delayed, they were delayed because either they were not approved by the authorities within the year, the concession, which is the year we use for our planning, and that does not generate any other issues. We simply delay it. There are also environmental licensing issues, also other projects that sometimes we bring because we think it's convenient. But then the authorities want to postpone it or delay in terms of deciding, but I'll turn the floor over to Flavio to give you more details about the investments and also how it is made up and broken down to your question.

Henrique, thank you for your question. Good morning. As Waldo said, we are talking about amounts that include contingent investment, service level investments and also cases which are under discussion. So the amount that the company estimates and communicates to the market at BRL 7.2 billion, without considering ViaOeste, we'll be able to monitor that a bit better as we move through the year. Out of that total, BRL 1.2 billion of investments were investments that did not happen in 2022, not happen. And they will now being considered for this new plan for 2023. We also had the addition of BRL 423 million from an investment coming from an amendment to a contract of the [ Via Mobilidade ] concession area. And we have also added BRL 190 million of claims for VR-101, and we are talking about amounts which are subject of reimbursement by the insurance company, also to rebalance the contract and also considering some investments in Lines 8 and 9. As, for example, the action plan that is subject to rebalancing with the implementation of an energy substation that will bring a reduction in maintenance costs throughout the contract. So all those amounts were made available at the company's press release for Q4 2022. You can have access to that. And now we will monitor that on a monthly basis how those numbers unfold vis-a-vis our estimate. Once again, BRL 7.2 billion, those numbers do not include the [ VOS ] balance of EUR 1.2 billion, just to be sure. Thank you.

Our next question comes from Victor Mizusaki from Bradesco BBI.

I have 2 questions. First, Waldo, you mentioned the free flow [ issue ] for the RioSP. I think it started on January 30, right? The first question on the free flow was if you could perhaps give us some more color on the results you have achieved so far. Maybe if you see any higher number of cars adhering to the technology, using the tag, escape routes as well, if you could comment on that a little bit, those results so far, I'd appreciate it. And #2, about Lines 8 and 9, you also mentioned CapEx of BRL 4 billion. And for 2023, in the guidance, we have BRL 2.6 billion, and looking at the past 2 years, 2021, 2022, you're talking about something to the tune of BRL 1.2 billion. So my question is, at that amount, and you mentioned that you [ count weight ] Lines 8 and 9 with a degraded infrastructure. Is there any additional CapEx being executed at that concession that could generate a future rebalancing? Those are my 2 questions.

Victor. Thank you for your question. I'll start with the free flow question. When we closed 2022, the company concluded the implementation of the free flow at that specific segment on BR-101. For this new contract for RioSP, the company has an obligation of implementing at 116 starting the fourth year of the concession, that small segment close to São Paulo and Aruja. But we have decided in a partnership with the authorities to implement right now in 101. We're talking about a segment of the highway that has a traffic profile which is quite varied, especially the first toll plaza. So we have concluded the installation of all the facilities, the 3 toll plazas. Those tokens will be replacing toll plazas actually talking about 3 across or along that segment of BR-101. We're now going through a testing phase. The free flow will become operational in March or by March. So that's an innovation we have included in this contract. We have a team out in the field with a very strong [ round of ] communication in the area with the local communities trying to educate drivers. We are talking about free flow, once again, which will accept collection via tech and also the reading of license plates. So we're still testing, as I said, and we'll start collecting the fare in the coming months. So I give it back to Waldo now.

Hi. Victor. As for your question about Lines 8 and 9 and other investments. Investments are being made as our business plan, we have actually pushed some investments [ forward ], especially maintenance investments have [ pull in man ] towards this year for maintenance Lines 8 and 9. But I'd say we are within plan. In answer to your question, today, there is a discussion with the authorities for us to achieve a new balance, but I'm not really sure whether that will really materialize. [ That sometimes ] needs to mature, it will depend on more discussions as the process moves forward. It's also worth mentioning that as for the CapEx contemplated for Lines 8 and 9, we have a contract with [ Alstrom ], where we have mitigated ForEx risk. That brings about [ an index ] for inflation adjustment relative to France because the equipment is imported from France. We assemble it here in Brazil, but the equipment comes from France. So the expectations and we mean to confirm that, we expect about BRL 250 million that will be additional amounts given the inflation adjustment coming from France, that's part of our contract that ForEx dynamic. That's our only source of concern. But I'll give -- we'll give you the final number as it emerges.

Our next question comes from Andressa Varotto from UBS.

Waldo, Flavia. First, I'd like to know if we can expect other costs relative to RodoNorte and [ Dutra ]. And also the RodoAnel project, which is scheduled for next month, how do you see that project going forward? And lastly, about the CapEx review -- when we look at what you had in Q3 vis-a-vis what we have now, so how do you see this inflationary environment as you review your CapEx? Can we assume that, that risk is passed?

Andressa, thank you for your questions. Let's start with your first question about RodoNorte and [ Dutra ]. As I mentioned, earlier today and in other conversations I've had with investors and analysts. When we reach the end of a concession contract, we need to sit down with the authorities and discuss. And there is always a series of demands and other items that need to be addressed. We need to reach other agreements. So the RodoNorte agreement was exactly that. There is no way to assure that in the future, authorities will not add an item which has not been discussed so far. But it is our understanding that, with this last agreement, that issue has been fully addressed. [ No ] additional debt, if I may call it that way, has been addressed. As for Dutra, those discussions have not started yet. There are demands that are in our favor. We know that there are other claims from the authorities, the concessing authorities, and we expect that we may reach an agreement eventually, but there is no time line for that as is. And as for RodoNorte, that is a very relevant project for the state of São Paulo. The public/private partnership, as you know, a very different type of contracting mode. When we look at any project, we always look at the risk metrics for the project. We try to quantify those risks with which we are comfortable, and those which we think are more relevant and we try to mitigate them. We are now in the process of final assessment. And very soon, we will be able to decide whether or not we will pursue that project and how aggressive we will be if we decide to go for it -- to go for the auction. [ Just to be sure ] we continue to look at the several different opportunities offered by the market, but we do have a macroeconomic integration marked by uncertainties, high interest rates. So our view on that takes all that into account. And lastly, your question about CapEx, I'll give it back to Flavia. She has the exact numbers to give you.

Andressa, I'll answer your question. You're asking about an increase in imports, correct? The company has just announced an estimated number for 2023. You can see in our earnings release, all the variations are there. They are driven by contract amendments, delays of works that did not happen in 2022, and which were naturally postponed to 2023. So the company has not identified any surplus cost that is relevant, that could affect the execution of our CapEx. Once again, when we look at the investment balance for the company to be realized, we're talking about the investment balance that has been compromised or committed to new businesses in 2021. CCR acquired 5 new businesses in 2021 that add up to about BRL 22 billion in investments to be executed in the coming 10 years. Why am I saying all this? Because it is important to emphasize that as we priced those investments when we delivered the proposals, when we submitted proposals, we had a [ peek at input ]. So that new reality had been reflected in our proposals. The current scenario, on the other hand, is slightly different, different from 2021. Of course, we still have a very small sampling. But when we, for example, consider the petroleum asphalt input, we see a drop of 9% in this year. That's an important input. That same input saw a drop of 13% in 2022. So we see a down trend in that specific input, which is a positive indication when we talk about input costs. And as I've said before in other meetings and calls, the company has not identified major changes in our investments obligations.

Our next question comes from Filipe Nielsen from Citibank.

I have 2 questions about the debt. I'd like to know if you've identified the risks and the cost of capital for your debt when you come to renegotiate debts about to mature or new issuances? And what would be a comfortable leverage level that you see going forward, given your investment plan? And the second question, I'd like to know if you have any lessons learned coming from those first periods when you started operating airports as lots or blocks, as opposed to individual units or individual facilities? What have you learned in terms of operation?

Filipe. First about the fixed income credit market. As everyone knows, we had a series of events early in the year, which have led to a decrease or contraction and fixed income investing also coming from some banks that coordinate offerings and offer firm guarantees for local operations. So the market today is more demanding, more careful. What we've realized overall is that payment terms have been reduced. [ The aye ] where you'd get 10 or more are now seeing a drop by investors and banks in general. And costs, or the spread over IPCA tends to worsen. And that, of course, depends on who is issuing it. At the end of the day, issuers who have a higher rating, and who have a solid financial position and a good margin, which is our case, we will be less impacted. Issuers who have a financial position which is more sensitive or delicate might face some more difficulties in the market. But the market remains open, it's not closed, which is important to emphasize. As examples, we have just completed amidst destabilizations of the [ B of Rio ] debentures, which was placed partially in the fixed income market. In addition to that, we are in the process of working on a different issuance of another concession where we have reached very interesting issuing conditions. This will be placed in the local markets. So for now, we are treading very carefully, treading the market very carefully. And as for the leverage level as a whole, over to you, Mr. Waldo, Mr. Perez.

Yes, we got disconnected. I'm back. Can you hear me now?

Yes. Carry on, Mr. Perez. We can all hear you now.

I apologize. Okay. As for the leverage level, we always try to have a capital structure in which our duration is feasible, then that it is related to our cash flow generated by our operations and also with the dividends to be paid to the holding company. And we do have the financial policy, in which we have a self-imposed leverage level, and we try not to go over 3.5x net debt over EBITDA. That's a number which provides us with a lot of comfort. And we do have the possibility of going beyond that level, provided we have a clear plan on how to resuming lower levels in no more than 24 months. So we are -- we have the flexibility in terms of investments because of the policy and the flexibility to have a short-term management in some times. And that's what we're going for. We always try to be below that number. As for your second question, no lessons learned as we operate airports as a network of airports, as we call it. That's the main reason why we decided to move forward in this newest or latest of rounds, is to have an airport platform, a network operated in conjunction. And you are right, if you operate on independent airports, quite different from operating a grid or a network of airport. As we operate a series of airports, a network of airfields, we were able to talk with different airline companies and revisit their routes to optimize routes, to optimize schedules. And in many cases, as I mentioned before, we have new routes, including international routes, which did not exist before, and wouldn't be possible if we didn't have this network of airfields. So that has helped optimize not only the operations, but also helped us optimize or increase the number of passengers, number of flights as a whole. At the airport level, when you have an array of airports to operate, you're able to negotiate with large retailers, those who lease commercial spaces in airports, different types of retailers. And then you have a different platform to offer different points of sales to those retailers. So we improve our image. We include conditions offered to those retailers, so contract conditions are better. So those are but a few examples of lessons learned from this new type of operation. But there are others, just to be sure.

[Operator Instructions] This concludes the Q&A session, and I turn the conference back over to Mr. Perez for his final remarks. Mr. Perez, over to you.

As soon as we answered the question from [ Pedro Benun ], which has just been authorized from XP, Please, Mr. [ Benun ], your question.

Thank you for the question. I have a follow-up on your comment about your return level. You include uncertainties and we include high interest rates. I'd like to hear from you how you see this discussion and then if you could share some of that with us to the extent it's possible? What kind of rationale do you have in [ counting ] and how does that relate to your view in terms of competitiveness? With a new administration and trying to discuss PPGs, there are specific examples, the [ RodoAnel ] is 1 of them. If you have a comment on that [ particular competitive ] scenario going forward. The national players, new players, what [ would you see that arena ].

Thank you for your question. As for returns, as you've always said, we look at return on a case-by-case basis. It's difficult to establish a rule; Every project has its specificities. And we are -- when we see relevant risks, we, of course, seek to mitigate them before we present a proposal just like we did in RioSP, Lines 8 and 9. So that's an important factor to take into account. [ And where does ] the financial view come into play, including interest rates, funding cost, that really model the proposal. Then we include all that, then which, of course, guide our leverage level, and this is when we will have impact of cost, which is a very high cost today, funding costs, but not because of high interest rates. That, of course, includes infrastructure debentures. And to your point in terms of competition, I believe, I think all players, all participants in the market will be looking carefully at these issues, of course. The required returns for those projects will probably be higher than they have been for the past 10 years. About the competitive scenario, specifically, it will depend -- it will vary from transportation mode to transportation mode. When you look at highways, where we have more opportunities, for those projects, which are highly relevant, for the past 2 years, we've seen a limited number of competitors. And names are usually the same, companies are usually the same. We've seen that happening recently in Grupo [ Papia ], and I would imagine they will be a new competitor in this market, and we do not know with what kind of impetus or willingness. When you look at airports, most routes have been completed. We are coming to the eighth round, including 2 airports in Rio. And we expect that we'll have the same usual suspects. So the only round where we did not have the usual players was the sixth round, when we managed to buy those 2 airport sets or blocks. And we announced the [ major ] competitors who have been in the supply area, the equipment supply. So we will depend on the assets to be sold. And we do not see major [ changes ] in that either. But again, this is a very dynamic universe.

Once again, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for the questions and your participation. This now closes the Q&A session. I'd like to turn the conference back over to Mr. Perez for his final remarks. Mr. Perez, you have the floor.

Thank you. We would like to close by thanking you all for participating in our earnings call, for your interest in the company and to emphasize, our IR team remains available to serve you. See you soon. Have a nice day, everyone.

This concludes the Q&A session and also the earnings call for CCR. Thank you all for participating, and have all a nice day.