Motus Holdings Limited (MTH) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

[Presentation] Sounds impressive when you look at it like that. Justine, well done. Where's Justine? Justine well done. You make us look good. Nice to be seeing how many brands we're representing, all of the jurisdictions we're in and things like that. So thank you for a great video there. Well done. Good morning, everyone. Thanks for making the time to be here. I know there's a few empty seats but they're starting to fill up, so that's quite nice. I'll just -- Ockert and I were talking, the worst presentation was when we [indiscernible] offices and looking to this black screen. We don't know who's on the other side, whether they're listening to us, trying to create an emotional reaction with the TV screen is impossible. So we're so pleased that we got out of that mess and we back into this kind of situation. I'm pleased to tell you my nonexec -- I don't know why they are here. Is it support for Ockert? Or they waiting to take me to the Sandton clinic? I don't know. But they're all sitting right in front. You got JJ, the Chairman; Oshy the Vice Chairman. You get my Audit Committee Chairman, who is sitting here. You got Fundi here. I'm a bit worried eh? I don't know they are here for you or for me. So maybe taking me to the Sandton Clinic, maybe I don't know. But I must say it's -- the first time I'm seeing you guys in this format and my last time, obviously. And people ask you what you're going to do? Aren't you worried? I'm actually excited. And I'll tell you why before we get into the results presentation, with I know someone from you is going to ask me the question. It's just that when you start with something and you build it up to what we've got in Motus, with your vision, with people like Ockert and I, you listened for, but you're talking about 8 years with this guy, Ockert and I started together. And how did the start happen? When Mark Lamberti said, he wanted to unbundle the Motor division. Logistics is going to go that way, and he said, I don't want to be your Chairman. So I said, why? I like the German business, the South American business, that's where I want to be. So I said no problem, I'll find my own way. I got Ockert and said Ockert if we stay with Imperial, we'll be regarded as retail. If we go to managed business, we'll be seen as importers, you and I don't want that. Let's start something, and that's how we landed up in the building we're in. We actually bought that building for $30 million from Marius. That's how we started the Motus journey 8 years ago. I think it was in March 2017, I think we started together. And it was quite interesting because we had this dealerships. We had a strategy. We had to form things. We had to get to know bankers. We needed to start from scratch. And it was fantastic. And here we're sitting 7.5 years later, and we can deliver these kind of results. And with the pleasure, I can say, here's your new CEO because there won't be a last day, a 3-week meeting with the handovers. There's no handovers. He's part of the journey. And he's been with me in every meeting. So what am I handing over? Ockert, well done, all the best, and let's go. So I think that's the privilege that we've got that I can stand here in front of you and saying, I'm passing the baton on to someone that's part of this journey, understands it. And we're very privileged with the extra member. I mean, Kerry and I and Ockert sit on the Board. And now Kerry has been with the journey. Then you've got all the other players, the Rheniers of the world. Rhenier is a newer guy, but I mean, he's been with us. Then you've got [indiscernible] I am. He grew up in the family and he's there. And [ Martin Lidl ] was there before I came. So you've got a lot of people here with institutional knowledge, and that's a nice part of it, you can hand over to a team you know can only take this building that's on 20 floors to the next -- to the 40 floors that it deserves. So I think that's the nice part. So I think that's the nice part of this handover is that you're handing over with pleasure. You're handing over something a child that grew up in your eyes and now become an adult and you're handing it over to team that was part of the vision, and that's the beauty of this. So -- we've got quite a busy agenda, but I think this time we split it, I'll talk first and then Ockert will come in after that because I'm the history lesson and he's the future lesson. So you've got to listen to him more. Now please understand and you guys read the newspapers, you watch TV. It's been a very difficult year. So when we say highlights, there really mean highlights. Because in an economic climate, we all know what happened in South Africa. We went through a difficult election. We're coming out of it still because we still all haven't settled down. The U.K. went through its highest inflation. Australia went through its own pain when no cars were available, all of a sudden, they're available. So the last 12 months in the economic environments in the 3 environments, Australia, the U.K. and Australia -- and South Africa were being tough. But despite that, I mean, our revenue is up 7%, EBITDA up 3% and ZAR 8.3 billion and operating profit slightly down, and we'll explain that and Ockert will talk more about that. And your cash flows. So for those of you that watch too closely and watch your Excel spreadsheets, this year, what we've done with our cash flows is that we've taken the car rental purchases out. So the -- previously, we gave you a number, like that number should have been ZAR 5.2 billion. But now the car rental on -- so that ZAR 3.5 billion cash generated by this business after car rental, after working capital, after interest and after tax. So that's a genuine number. And Ockert worked very hard with PwC to say, what's the fair place to land. So I think Ockert this was the right number to present ultimately. The bolt-on acquisitions, like we said, we'll add on bolt-on as we go along, both those two have done very well, the U.K. one and the Wagga Wagga in Australia. The Aftermarket Parts for the clever accountants here, do the numbers, guys. ZAR 1.1 billion operating income. We paid 4.44 multiple on EBITDA. It must be a good deal, guys. You do it in operating profit, you take the ZAR 719 million divide by 4.44x. Now we look ever 2 years -- now we look over 2 years later, but it was the right kind of decision for us. Now ZAR 1.1 billion or even the ZAR 719 million. ZAR 719 million out of ZAR 5.5 billion gives you a fair size of our business is there now in one place. So you can see we've created some good opportunities here for the future. But we haven't left the soft stuff out. So people normally focus on the numbers and they forget the soft stuff, but we focused on -- and I'll talk a lot about these things. The black representation, the female representation and the ESG stuff that we're doing. I'll talk a bit about that. [indiscernible] we still at 18%. We're going to pay a 35% dividend on attributable income. We haven't let you guys down in dividend on attributable income. We haven't let you guys down except for the one we missed in COVID, but we all had to do that to protect our business. And here, we're back at the 35% of attributable income. And I always tell the Board this that this is one business you can touch our assets, you can feel it, and at ZAR 102 a share, we can -- you can touch our assets, which are either in buildings or in stock or in Parts. So you can touch our business. So a bit of history, like I said, I'm the historian. Ockert will about the future. Just to explain what happened in case you have a memory lapse in between. So this was our journey started 2019, the first listed company results. We produced at ZAR 3.6 billion. And today, we're talking of ZAR 5.5 billion. Guys, this is not a 20-year history. We're talking 6 years. So I think for youngsters that didn't all come from the motor industry, this is an achievement because there's ex-partner coming from the food industry, ex-partner from Deloitte consulted to everyone, gave a lot of good advice never implemented and we implemented it for you. Because when you're in the audit profession, you give a lot of advice. [indiscernible] since we didn't have the choice, both of us, and we didn't have the choice both of. -- with these PwC experience and my Deloitte experience, we had to implement. Fortunately, I've got some Deloitte colleagues like Kerry, we carried the banner. So we managed. And we produced a great result in you can see this is all about focus. It's about getting it on what we can do well, and that's what this has achieved. So to the nonexecs you guys should be proud of what we've achieved with your leadership and guidance. I know it wasn't easy for you guys at times. You have to back management in very difficult times like when the share price was at ZAR 28. You still had to believe in us, and we haven't disappointed you. So it is nice in the sense that if you look at this, we jumped like just in auto, you jump to the four number. And you can see we jumped it, Justine. I don't know how we jumped it, but we jumped it. Okay. That from a cash point of view, because we can always fall in love with profits. We are accountants. We can fall in love with the income statement. We can fall in love with the balance sheet, but that's not where my love lies. My loves in the cash flow. And I know the auditors. I explained to them in the audit committee how I look at cash flow and how we look at going concern. So he said, I've just done their working papers for them as well in the going concern review. So -- because cash is king, and we know that. We talk about it globally, but you can see what we've done with our money over the period of 6 years. So -- and you can see we've spent money everywhere. We didn't do it in one place. For example, look at the shareholders 8.3, which is dividend and share buybacks. ZAR 8.3 billion out of the ZAR 26 billion. And then obviously, we continue investing. That's the future growth potential. And vehicles for hire is our bread and butter. We have to put cars into vehicles, not vehicles for hire, not only for the Europe and the [indiscernible] of the world, but we feed the other families as well because those cars come as used cars back to us. So we need to feed that family. Net working capital, I mean, we have to put money into our stock. And then the capital expenditure. We need some of the Taj Mahals in our dealerships, things like that. We've got to refurbish places. CSIs change. So -- all in all, we spent -- we believe we spent our money wisely. We didn't do stupid things. And we can show you where we spent the money. I talk about this as soft, but it's a very serious part of our business. So I make light of it, but this is not something I take lightly in our EXCOs. And fortunately, my EXCO members believe in it. I don't have to shout at them and scream at them. They do this themselves. So you can see our black representation in top management has gone up now to 50%, senior at 54%, junior at 76% and look at the total, 79%. So no one can accuse us of not looking at transformation, not looking at developing people, not maturing people, that's what we've done. Our female representation of 32%, we're not happy with, we're in fact, at 34% in South Africa. Our fancy colleagues in the first world countries of the U.K. and Australia are below us. So we're putting a lot of pressure to get them up. And if they come up and we push up, that 35% is not impossible. That can get there quite quickly. And then ultimately, in the long term, in the next 3, 4 years, you can get that number to 40%. On the CSI side, there's a guilty party here, my Chairman. My Chairman and I were the first people to be trustees of this community trust for the libraries. Bill Lynch convinced him and shouted him said, JJ, you don't sit on any of my Boards. I want you to sit on my trust. So he was shouted at, and he sat, and I was with him at that time with Hafeez. And then Fundi joined us. And this is how we started the library program. We've got now 81 library from the 1 and 2 that we started with. We had ZAR 6 million in the bank account, and we had to start this project. And the three of us with three other people got the project going in '21 with 81 liabilities, 94,000 learners. The 110 librarians are not paid by the government. They are paid by the trust. The trust is equally funded by us and DP World. So don't look in there'll be created employment for the government. We created the employment, us created their employment. And then the Scholar program, which is Berenice's baby, she started this. She went to a function and saw this and liked it. And today, you can see Berenice runs this with some people, but she's done a great job going to 2,900 schools and touching the lives of 2.4 million children. So she's passionate about that as well. And the Unjani Clinic, which she is a trustee -- Berenice is a trustee on that. And I was involved in my imperial days, but then I had do step off because it just had too many responsibilities, but you can see the consultations are 94,000 people per month in townships. So that means if you've got the headaches and the flus and you don't run to a clinic. You get sorted out in the townships. So great initiative as well. This is Ockert and Berenice's baby. They make sure that there is no abuse on fuel and electricity and water. And Kobus has now become part of this. Why because he has to negotiate with the banks. And the better we do here, the better the interest rate. So now all of a sudden, where it was -- Ockert is now Ockert, Kobus and Berenice. They're all seeing from the same team sheet and putting pressure on our EXCO members to fix these things up and improve. The one question I always tell them, you can't reduce these numbers by half, you'll have no business left because you are in the business of selling cars so you're going to use fuel. You test drive cars, you move cars from depots, things like that. So these things must be done within reason. At the end of the day, there's a business, and the business uses it. Use better -- fuel-efficient cars and things like that, but you're not going to half these numbers. Electricity, we achieved quite a bit, but that's a lot of the things with solar panels and LEDs and that kind of thing. And water, there's quite a bit of harvesting technique in place, especially in the car rental depots where they use a lot of water. We don't -- every time we wash a car, we're not using the water once we use it about 5, 6 times before getting -- before we have to destroy it. So it's quite an efficient way of running our businesses. Okay. So that's the soft side bit of history. So what's the foundation we link for Ockert and Kerry and the team to go forward on, and this is the foundation. Which is, obviously, we've got our international business up from the 22s and that. We've got it now to 35%. The balance between offshore are between cars and non-car sales. We managed to get to the 50% balance as well. And then Kerry and her team are driving this innovation and using data effectively and things like that, not on only selling new products and services to customers, but they're coming off that does, how do we process items. For example, in Hyundai, they're quite good with AI in processing some of the information that we have, that's manual. They're getting the manual processes and now they're using AI for that. So our business are involved in the processing, but Kerry and her team are looking at new ways of using data, selling new products, new services, that kind of thing. Okay. So you can see where were we in 2021 with our offshore income at 22%, we are at 35% now. So you can see quite a nice gradual incline with quality businesses that give us sustainability. So we're not dependent on only the currency for the 1 year in South Africa. But now we can -- if the currency weakens here, we pick it up on the other side. If the currency strengthens, this goes up and this will come down slightly. So you create good stability and you're less cyclical in terms of your currency, and that's what this has given us. And the sectors that are touch wood -- whatever we've touched is doing well for us, the Aftermarket Parts in the U.K. and Europe and China. The U.K. Commercial business and car business and the Australian business, all doing very well for us. At one stage, we were very worried that when we get this balance right between the profitability of selling a new car and a preowned together with -- on the other side, which is car rental, Aftermarket Parts, Mobility Solutions, will we get this balance right? In touch wood, it's been a 4-year journey. And we've got this now to a very good split, 50-50. That means the car market, like you saw in yesterday's NAAMSA numbers, the car market is quite flat. Now there will be more opportunity in the future, but I'm saying that people panic when they see the NAAMSA numbers, and I'm saying, don't panic. it's a big part of our business that's not dependent on those NAAMSA numbers. They're rely on workshops. That rely on parts. Car rental, that kind of thing. Don't rely on the NAAMSA numbers. So don't panic when you see those NAAMSA numbers because we're more than that. And that's the kind of message I want to give you guys. Like I said, the offshore acquisitions have done well for us. Now why am I putting a whole slide on this offshore acquisitions? It wasn't just buying FAI buying MPD. That was the platform we needed. Now that we've got the platform, now we're in Phase 2 and 3. What is Phase 2 and 3? Getting more procurement from China, buying better. When we bought MPD, not a single part in MPD was bought outside the U.K. Bought in pounds, sold in pounds. Now all of a sudden, we got Niall Lynch, who was in South Africa and the heads of the business appointed head of procurement for global. That means he works with the Chinese, works with South Africa, knows what the U.K. market runs. We've got global procurement. That now will improve our margins in China and in the U.K. We've been buying from China. South Africa's has been being China for -- but we can buy better because you're taking the U.K. volumes, the South African volumes, you put it into China, instead of buying one container, buy three. The other thing, it's not all about pricing. Some of our terms going forward from 90 days has gone to 180 days because you negotiate hard because you've got quantity to play with. So I don't want to just talk about the acquisitions, but what the acquisitions have done, they've given us a platform for organic growth. So now the growth will come without paying more goodwill because you just need to add on more margin in China, more margin in the U.K. and grow that business, and this thing will, just your margins will just go up without paying more goodwill, and that's the beauty of this business. There's a lot of fuel in this tank in the next 2 to 3 years because overseas things don't happen quickly. We negotiate a group where we're supplying parts to a complete new area in the U.K. Now that comes in, we're talking of maybe ZAR 100 million turnover. ZAR 100 million at 10% margin, I'll take it any day. But it doesn't happen quickly. It will take time, but we started discussions. We're getting there, procure better in China and get that cycle going. That's why we like this businesses because the foundation has got a lot of potential in organic growth, and that's the beauty. And the other thing is that it's not only about buying from China and selling maybe to other areas. Poland, we set up a warehouse there. That's got a lot of opportunity. So we'll -- we're be buying for that. Now simple. We were buying -- when we got involved, we started buying from China, sending to the U.K., pay the duties, then move the goods to Poland. Because we're not in Brexit -- we're out of the EU, we're going to pay duties, claim duties back and how cumbersome that is. Now the goods don't even come to the U.K. They go straight from China, Rotterdam, Poland. So faster, less paperwork. The U.K. will get each share to look after itself. And Ockert gradually signed a new lease on a warehouse that the nonexec were in Milton Keynes. It was Ockert's concern was that, give them the world, they'll fill it up with [indiscernible]. And we're saying, yes, Ockert, they'll fill it up but they'll sell from there. And I think he saw the light and he said, guys, I agree, I'm going to assign the lease. So he agreed to that eventually because he's worry is that when you give the guys a world, they'll just fill it up for you. But we know that Milton Keynes is in the right area, we'll service the whole of the U.K. And then obviously, the Polish stuff will go directly. So that's the story of the Aftermarket Parts. It's not about just the acquisition, and I made you guys look good when you looked at the 4 multiple, that this is the future of growth with good margins. Then obviously, we do a few good things by mistake. Like we buy Solway, we bought some dealerships, and they're adding nicely to our business, and then we did that acquisition in Australia, again, provincial acquisition. So you don't go buy in Sydney and Melbourne, where rentals are very high. You do them in outlying areas. Now look at the U.K., how we've moved up the revenue, 63% from 2019. And then look at Australia, 28 dealerships to 47. So now you're starting to get economies of scale. I talked about the innovation, and we had the Capital Markets Day. So I'm not going to go through too much of the detail. You've been there. You've seen what we're doing. And it's not just talking. So you can see the projects. We started a lot of concepts. I mean, 52 concepts, 30 were not successful, but that's life. We're not going to touch everything and become gold. And then we've got 15 new but 7 now we've commercialized which are starting to make money. We can measure it. Is it profitable? Yes. But more importantly than the concepts and it's people thinking differently. We've got 3,000 people out of the 20 are thinking about being different, creating innovation, doing things differently. That's what it's all about. You can't get 20,000 innovators, guys, you'll have no business. They'll just be thinking of blue sky thinking, who's going to sell a car, who's going to service the car? Who's going to sell the part? No. Kerry had a mission when she started. It was very ambitious when she told us, I want to get to 3,000. I'm saying, hey Kerry, you haven't got 10 people, how are you getting there? She says don't worry, we will get there. And over a 3-year period, you got there with 3,000 people. With persevere -- 4,000 people, Justine, 4,000 people. I mean, it's a great achievement. And you must remember, all this is happening, the growth, COVID hit you, and you're 6 years in a listed company. You've got an international strategy. So you can see it's a very busy EXCO, thinking all the time, doing things differently and making things happen, very accountable people unlike some of your politicians, these EXCO members are very accountable. And I mean, we just put this for illustration purposes. You can see it's ZAR 120 million our EBITDA got enhanced by just 2 little acquisitions we did. So you do these little things, they all add up over time. And then you become a big shopping DAF size where they see you. Now you have arrived. You've 25%, 28% of their share, and that's what it does here. And then obviously, Australia just helps the economies of scale. Okay. So that's the good things and -- but our business needs some engineering as well, and that's when we started the mission. We were overstocked last year. So like I said, we had all the other things, but when you come home, we were overstocked. So we're very fortunate that with the support of the OEMs, our EXCO members driving hard, the [indiscernible] and the Rheniers of the world and Paul is not here, I didn't see him today. The all the importers, the retailers, started working hard. And that's how we brought that stock down by ZAR 4.9 billion. Guys, it's not easy. It was tough. That ZAR 4.9 billion could have been ZAR 6 billion, ZAR 6.5 billion, very easily. Two areas disappointed us, not because of their doing, because of circumstances. For example, in Australia, they were short of cars. All of a sudden the cars came. Then we had the acquisition. So they're carrying about ZAR 1 billion more than they normally carry 2 years ago. But we know it's good stock. We're selling it. So I'm not complaining. I'm just saying ZAR 5.9 billion could have been ZAR 6.5 billion quite easily. And then the body builders in the U.K. after COVID a lot of these guys close shop and they didn't open up. So when you order a truck and you want the back portion built, depending on how complicated it is, it can take up to 9 months to get the back section made. And for 9 months, that truck is on your balance sheet. It's only when you deliver to the customer if you've done the sale. Now we do charge the customers interest but we overstocked there about ZAR 700 million, ZAR 800 million. Not our own doing, what do we do? But that's starting to ease off because now they're starting to deliver. They're catching up and the body shops are working faster and getting us things done. So by December, the body building issue will be more normalized and Australia will get to a normalized situation. So we're very pleased with what we achieved. I mean it was a hard tough meetings where we had to tell the guys, because everyone gets complacent. And everyone can tell you about a story about an OEM. We are adding 25 OEMs. So we heard the story 25 times. VW is god. They need this. Then we had Ford became god. Said, thank you. We've got too many gods in. Let's have one, which is Ockert and I will bring you down. So that's what we did, and we got the ZAR 4.9 billion worth of stock down. And remember, stock prices have gone up. I mean, your cars have gone up, your trucks. So despite that, despite the acquisitions, ZAR 4.9 billion, not a bad number. So what we said we want to do, we've achieved. The vehicles for hire. Yes, we overdid it. We had a lot. But remember, you must -- the vehicles for hire business, you can't compare June to June. You look at December, which is at its peak. All the car rental companies, including Europcar and Tempest and all the others were our peak in December. It's only from Easter weekend, we dropped the cars. And that's why at June '24, we're back at ZAR 4.8 billion. There's a lot of cars coming back now from Avis and Budget, because 12 months from July to August will be July, August, September this year. So we'll get those cars back and then new cars will go to them. So we don't believe that we want to get back to the ZAR 6.1 billion, but still it will go up. So when Ockert stands here in December, he's not going to be at -- I can tell you now he is going to be at ZAR 4.8 billion. because cars will go out. But when you come back at June, they'll come back and we'll sell them as used cars. So car rental, we have reduced by 1.3%, but this is not a permanent decline. It will always decline in June. It will go up in December, decline and do that. That's the nature of the game. So this that we're quite clear that when Ockert -- you tell Ockert said, no, you should be at ZAR 4.8 billion, he can't be because that's a cycle that we need to live with. The guidance we gave you guys, this is always a risky situation where we put our heads out. And for you guys, we become slaughtering ground where you can let us have a go, but touch wood. We told you what the revenue will be growing by single digit. We managed to get our 4% EBITDA, we said we are hoping for flat, but we managed to get 3% there. And perhaps you said 25% to 35%, we're at 28%. So we're on the right side of the 30% because at the time when we were looking at this, we were quite worried. We were maybe 31%, 32%, but the conservative accountants had to push them and they said, maybe 30%. And that's why we went to the range. But thank god, we did better than what we thought, and we came in at 28%. I talked about this cash flow, but please understand this cash flow. This ZAR 3.5 billion is after working capital, after car rental, after interest and after tax. So we're quite pleased with what -- and last year, look at the outflow of ZAR 1.2 billion. So last year, we were in a very difficult period from a cash point of view. And then Kobus and Ockert have done quite well with our colleagues sitting here, all the bankers. We've still got good facilities of ZAR 13.5 billion. Again, this is not an easy one because you saw the NAAMSA numbers. We're quite flat in the car market at the moment. So you can see where we were in '22, 530,000; '23, 532,000 flat, and '24 calendar, we're talking of 500,000 to 520,000. In fact, some of the OEMs are calling a 500,000 number. But I think it should be about 510,000. That's why we think it will be there. And the actual -- now financially it was 512,000. So you can see South Africa has become quite a stable market of 510,000, 520,000. Now what do we need to kickstart this market? A bit of interest rate reduction, a bit of positivity and a few more jobs. And this thing will just kick. And it can kick to 600,000 easy. It's going to take 5 years to get there. We just get a bit of reduction on interest, sentiment better and a bit of a few more jobs. This thing will kick because people need cars to go to work, people aspire to have cars. And I think this thing can kick faster than we think if we can get there. But we're very focused on our target market that's what's our target market. We stay in the preowned. Where the car younger than 6 years old. And you can see we did 72,000 out of the 335,000. So that still gives us the 1 out of 5. And the ratio was 1 new with a 0.8 preowned. The ideal ratio in a business is 1:1, but we've never got there. We got there during the year of COVID when we defleeted those cars. Ideal would be 1:1. When you can sell 1 new for 1 preowned, you've done well. I remember Niall Lynch taught me this as well. And he said, the day you get there, you've run an excellent business, but we've been battling at 0.7, 0.8. 0.8 is good. and we did get to 1:1, but because of COVID. Ockert will talk about the numbers. But you can see that the market is struggling in the car market because of people going buying down from premium brands to less premium brands, going for smaller vehicles, holding their preowned cars longer. But like I said, to me, that's starting to become history now. But if I look at the next 24 months, and we look at where people are talking about interest rates. People feeling positive about the economy. And we just need a few more jobs. We need a bit of foreign capital coming to our country, we'll see this kick start quickly, and this thing will normalize at about 600 in the next 24 months. The importers obviously they are in the limelight, because you look at what happened to the importers. We managed to hold 17.8%, but this was once upon a time a 21% business, which was artificial, because no one had cars, we had cars. So we had to look good. Even the blind bull catches a nut sometimes. We were one of those guys that -- we did 21% because no one had cars, that's why we did well. But we managed to hold in a very difficult market. And what made it more difficult this year, some of our entry levels in Hyundai and Kia, we didn't get enough stock of. Had we got enough stock of that, we've got have been over the 18 -- we'd been 18.4%, but we couldn't get enough of those. And obviously, the market is competitive. I mean, let me not stand here and tell you it is competitive with the Suzuki and the Chinese and things like that. Why are we feeling that we can actually improve this market, the 17.8% can be 18.5% in the next 12, 18 months is that our OEMs, the Hyundais and the Kias and the Renaults are talking of new products. In fact, Hyundai is launching a beautiful product with Ockert in Cape Town in the next 2 weeks. Very nice product. Well priced coming into the market, and we see now that coming through. Kia's got its entry-level back into circulation. So that will do nice -- nicely. Renault is talking of a bit of an addition in January, February. We bought some currency. Hopefully, those cars come now. So there's beautiful cars coming through there as well, very competitively priced. So there is light at the end of this tunnel. We didn't fall off a cliff. There's some nice product coming and playing in the market we're playing in. And I think this market can only go up from here onwards. It doesn't -- unfortunately, these things don't happen immediately. So by the time we launch the product and get the market in. By January, I think you'll start seeing the numbers look a bit better, January to June next year. So yesterday's numbers from NAAMSA, the Hyundai numbers looked well I mean you had good numbers yesterday. Kia and Renault will pick up better from September onwards because we'll get more car and fleets in there and things like that. The OEMs are very supportive, I must say, not only the importers, the Hyundais and the Kias and the Renaults, but the other importers are very supportive of what we're doing. So these long relationships are working for us, the 20- and 25-year relationships. They're trusting us with their brand. And now they've got new leaders in and Paul, Somani is relatively new. So they're trusting the -- OEMs are trusting these leaders and giving them a lot of support going forward. The customer experience in terms of how we talk to customers, how we're dealing with customers, it's an ongoing journey with our portals, the digital dealer. That means you can complete your application at home, send it through press a button, go to the bank, you'll get an answer. The stock portals, we're busy with. That means you can see all our stock in one place, which will be ready in the next 2 to 3 months. So there's a lot of investment taking place in technology because we understand our user is changing, our buyer is changing. So we need to change with the buyer. But again, this is -- you do all this to stand store, because your buyer is changing, but we're well advanced into our stock portals, digital dealers and the way we are interacting with the customers as well. And the brand focusing, I mean, you see our advert all over the show, and we continue with that. And the importers and Kerry worked very closely to make sure that they're giving the right message out there. And we remain prominent in the lives of our consumers. Okay. So this is what happened with the units. You can see South Africa was down with the competitiveness. But the U.K. came up quite nicely. And Australia has been pumping at the moment. Just remember this into our cleverness, a year ago, they had a contamination problem. So they used to sanitize all these cars. So instead of releasing 5,000 cars a day, they could only do about 400, 500 cars a day. So they were very slow. And once they come on a ship, they sanitize the car and then it gets to the dealership. They've overcome that problem. And Ford in fact, had to put three extra ships from Thailand into Australia. They managed to get that. So the stocks aren't coming. And all of a sudden, it's coming, but these guys are selling as well. So you can see 40% up. And South Africa pre-owned, we managed to hold quite nicely. So you can see a dip in the new, but in the pre-owned, we did quite nicely to hold that. The U.K. went through a bit of a bump because in the U.K., the guys were holding their passenger cars longer because of inflation and more expensive cars. So they held a bit longer, but we're starting to create a new normal there as well. And Australia pumped on both sides, the new and preowned. So I think that Australia was just doing very well for us. Okay. Ockert is going to talk a lot more detail on this. I'm just doing a nice pie chart for you to see, so you can just get the picture where the pain was and where the happiness was. So you can see pain was in the importers, but the other divisions all came in quite nicely, Ockert will go through in a lot more detail how this happened and what -- where it is. So minus importers, we had a great year. And with the importers, we had a level here. So you can see the mix of these businesses is working. So no one business is going to take this group completely down or take you completely up. It will keep you stable and give you a lot of stability over the years. I want to remind everyone that if you followed us in the days of Imperial, this turnover is bigger than the combined business of Imperial and the motor business. So if you don't believe me, go check the results. When we did it together in 2018, that number will be bigger than that on our own. There we did it with the badges and with everything else. Today, we do it on our own. So the children have grown up at Motus. They've all become adults now. These were the numbers, profitability of ZAR 5.5 billion, you didn't see at Imperial. You were talking of ZAR 3.5 billion, ZAR 4 billion. When we got there, we're very happy. So you can see, Motus has done great things to get to their operating income of ZAR 5.5 billion. Again, like I talked about the importers, Ockert will talk about that. But our retail and rental came in flat in this very difficult environment. Retail and rentals at South Africa, the U.K., Australia and car rental in there, so yes, I will highlight our mobility solutions, Kerry. Thank you very much. We'll take it any day. And this is a cash generative business, there's no debtors. So when you see profits, you see it's all cash. So that's the beauty of that business. We don't even give you a margin where the margins are silly. They collect a lot of dividends and self-capital profit shares and other profit shares. So this is a cash-generative business. And aftermarket parts, I'll glow at 19%, but there were some hiccups that in South Africa didn't do so well, but overseas shot the market, that's why we're growing a bit on the 19% there. But all in all, guys, ZAR 5.5 billion, I'll take it any day in this tough economic environment. So if you divide the net asset value divide by ZAR 5.5 billion, I think we have a great business, very stable, very solid. You can touch it, you can feel it. And the share price, I don't think so you guys rewarding us enough, but I'll leave that over time. You'll -- hopefully you'll reward Ockert with more. Okay. So there's the highlights again, just to recap in a nice fancy way Justine, there's were revenue gone up 7%. Your EBITDA, your operating profit slightly down. The earnings per share in the HEPS, 28% down, not ideal. We understand that. But if you look at the core business, the trading part of our business, look at the EBITDA and the operating profit, that's trading. Where we got hurt and Ockert will talk more, was the interest bow which was, obviously, we did investments. We did working capital, car rental. But fast forward 2 years, you will see a different picture. I wouldn't promise you a number, but let Ockert promise you a number and tell you where is interest is going to be, and I'm sure he's going to talk a bit about that. And the dividend, like I said, we continue paying that as well. Net asset value, we're very pleased with this number. And to have ZAR 102 share when you're trading at ZAR 124 is a great number. So we're not an IT business. We're not an airy-fairy business. You can touch us. We've got assets behind of our business. And remember, some of our properties are undervalued. So we still got good value there. Then from last year and this year, we changed the way we report this number. So to make it easy, accounting 101, we've got 50% equity -- 57% equity and we've got 43% debt. The target over time is to have 60% equity and 40% debt. That keeps you in a safe position, that means you never overborrowed in the group. And this is quite a nice way of look at it because it makes it easy to understand that if you overborrowed, the one example I always give my EXCO colleagues I said, do you don't buy your groceries on 24-month budgets. No one wants that. We never want that in Motus. And that's where we get the 60% equity, 40% debt, very comfortable position to be in and gives us a lot of stability. Cash flows, like I said, ZAR 3.5 billion. After all, what we've done, return on capital there. The bankers will be happy with our covenants. Ockert and Kobus have done a great job to manage this business, getting within covenants and our debt lines are very much alive and well and open. So that keeps us going. Ockert, I think this is yours now.

Thanks, Osman. I think as Osman says, you have to sometimes understand the past, understand the future. So I don't know what my title is in a longer growth, now we appointed a new CFO. I'm still here. Osman is CEO, so we just call me the Chief Future Officer for the next 2 months. It looks like that's what I'm supposed to tell you about the future. So you have to have understand the past to understand the future. So we're first going to go through the past. So bear with me a little bit. You all have the books, you all have fancy spreadsheets, you're going to plug all the numbers in and then you got to have questions. But if you understand the detail behind these numbers, I'm going to make it easy for you. You don't actually need to understand everything in there. You just need to understand a few lines. So the first one is, obviously, Osman already spoke about the revenue. You saw what grew, what didn't grow. But I think if we stand still EBITDA, yes, we're up. Operating profit, if you just take that line and you see hang on guys, everything did not perform well. The South African business actually did not perform well. You look at ZAR 5.5 billion, that's a great number. That's despite the South African business actually not performing well. Lots of reasons within the South African economy and all those macros that we were speaking of. So Africa went down 20%. So yes, if we didn't do all these acquisitions, we didn't diversify, we didn't go international, you would have seen quite a bit of a different number here, because South Africa went down 20% on operating profit, yet the international business went up 40% year-on-year. And that is the beauty of internationalization and diversification that we've been beating the drum for, for a while that you cannot be at the best of only one part of this business. And I think just with ZAR 5.5 billion, as Osman said, that's actually quite a good number. And we felt that this business really showed a lot of resilience because if you just look at South Africa, we've probably gone through one of the hardest years that we would have seen. Operating margin up 4.8%, so that's still holding quite strong on that level. If you look at the revenue streams, and there is also another slide where you can see how this business has actually been shifting because you could get another 15% change in your sale of just parts, you can see how this business and the mindset of where you're going to derive the revenue from in the future has changed quite a bit over the number of years. Overall, ZAR 113.7 billion, and as Osman said, that is quite a big number if you compare it to what we had even when we were combined with Imperial. The second line that we really need to focus on, really understand where did the operating profit come from is, what's happened below that line? What's happened to that finance cost line? I know we've been talking about it, a lot of people try to model it, try to figure it out. Last year when the stock was high, what's going to happen to this line. And the reality is this is probably the one line that is a little bit more under our control. If you talk about the rest of the market, quite difficult. Yet this one has been under our control a bit more. So yes, we were over stocked last year. We told you guys we need to come down. All the EXCO members had a little chat with that. They owned stock number and then they had a thing called Ockert's target. They were crying initially in July, August. But by December, everyone got used to this is the way we need to get to. And yes, slowly, slowly, you can get there. And as you can see, the remarkable achievement of actually reducing your stock by ZAR 5 billion in a year. I mean that is a number. I mean, don't underestimate the hard work needed to go in and to get at that. I think Osman says yes, it's probably a little bit still to go, but it probably is going to go and swings and roundabouts. I don't expect another ZAR 5 billion reduction. I don't think we can get there. But just at the new level that we add, you will find that, obviously, this net finance cost is at its peak. Yes, you will see on the core debt, maybe we don't reduce everywhere. But remember, we also reduced on the creditors. There's some interest-bearing creditors that you've got in play. And over time, you will see this net finance cost come down. If you just have normal profitability and free cash flow from those operations, which Osman also showed you earlier. So yes, we're not happy with that number, but we know what the number is about, and we know how to work at it to let it reduce going forward. So apart from that number, the other lines on that slide doesn't really need to get much more attention. If you go forward into the profit after tax, the tax, we were quite pleased that it was a little bit lower than the 25% that we, I think, initially projected. And that mainly to do with the fact that we got quite a bit of income from the -- from our bank JVs, et cetera, where you get it as an exempt income. If you look at the overall numbers at ZAR 14.79, I think this we would have taken, if you speak to -- spoke to us in 2021, which is 3 years ago, we were still below ZAR 12. So at ZAR 14.79, we obviously did increase quite a lot in those 3 years. So yes, we did have a great year last year with over ZAR 20, and hopefully, you can get there over the next few years again. But like I said, we need to work at it as quite a few lines. The one would be on the operating profit, but also the other line is that finance cost that needs to reduce. If you look at the segments themselves, this is probably the one segment that I know we've been called out saying, listen, this segment looks like the one that is really struggling. Where is it going to go? What does the market shares look like? And the import and distribution was certainly one of the Achilles heels for us for this year. As a segment, not performing that well, down 45%. But yet, it still remained with our operating margin of 4%. And I think that was quite key for us to still show that despite everything it has thrown at us, I think we had a lot of new entrants into the market. We certainly had our own issues to deal with from a overstock position, but then we also ran out of some of those entry-level vehicles. So we almost had a double whammy in the same year in this segment. And certainly, looking at the tone from the EXCO at the moment, it feels as if the energy is back into this segment. And hopefully, this is the one that can provide a bit more growth whilst going forward again. Lastly, we had to replace quite a few vehicles initially into that car rental segment as well. So you would have seen that in the first half of the year, and would probably not repeat to the same extent in this year. Overall, as you can see, that 22% that went -- if you look at that channel split 22%, it did go into the car rental space. We probably feel that between 15% to 20% is probably the right number. And we'll look at how we can deal with that. They will benefit from the ForEx going forward. I think with the rates at the moment, you can see what the rates are there, including our forward points with the recent strengthening of the rand. Obviously, we'll still be buying forward on a continuous basis. I think everyone in the room knows that we normally have about a 7-month forward points that I support cover that as we carry, and we'll continue with that going forward. Going over into the retail and rental business, overall, quite a good performance. As you can see, it was holding up even half year to half year, 2.8% margin. Good business, strong business. Remember, this is still all around volumes. This is where scale really counts. I think there is quite a lot of hard work we're putting in the background to try and make sure we're banking the right brands, moving brands around our dealership footprint, et cetera, and that's something we always work at. Specifically, the South African environment, we have had a lot of new entrants where we needed to other find space for them to see where the market is growing. And yes, you do have some brands declining, others increasing. And we want to have a fair balance between all those brands. And this is not just around the imported brands, is around all the other brands that we cover as well. And yes, those markets have changed in the last few years. As you can see, even the sign of the BYD there at the bottom, that's not a BYD in South Africa. That's -- we've got 3 BYDs in the U.K. I mean, fantastic vehicles doing well in the U.K. where they certainly have been a marked challenger against, for instance, Tesla. So those are the markets you need to continuously adapt to. So it's not a one size fits all. You need to continuously look at what he is selling, which markets. And remember, a new entrant into a market is normally another great brand to have. You normally would lose in your dealership in that first year. So you can't just rush out and also say, well, let me just sign up every new entrant. You first need to see if there's a car park if it grows, because in the end, it's all around the workshops in the selling parts, et cetera, and the used car tradings you will have on those brands as well. So it is something we continuously work at. Once again, as I said earlier, South African probably been the one -- the part of the market not doing well, but it was offset by -- in our South African space, at least by the vehicle rental side, which had a remarkable year. I mean, vehicle rental overall, I mean, up 28%. Yes, of course, it's all around utilization and so on, but also making sure you get those vehicles at the right places at the right times. I think we all saw that the international visitors did come back in the December months, and you literally couldn't find a vehicle there. While there has been shifts maybe in Durbin, I think the reality is we're still quite buoyant on where this market can still be for this year. We turned it down probably close to about 15,500 vehicles in the car rental space in June, we'll up fleet again for December, probably between 20,000 and 21,000 vehicles. U.K. retail, really, really good performance. These commercial trucks are really doing it for us there. We're obviously a lesser player in the passenger space, but even the passenger side, I mean, that they have their contribution but the DAF brand is certainly performing very well for us there. And that's where those bolt-on acquisitions always help. And in this particular case, the bolt-on wasn't so much around the dealership, we will actually sell a lot of new vehicles, or in this case, commercial trucks. What this was about was more around servicing. It was in a particular area where we knew there was a lot of servicing for that dealership as well. And then, of course, it's a lot more asset-light than you actually get the returns on your money very quickly. Australia, like we said earlier, on an absolute role, this is one of the best performances that they've ever had, certainly since we've had the businesses that would be the highest operating profit that you would have seen there, and up 54%. Ford is really performing very well there for us as a brand. The new acquisition in Wagga Wagga, which, I mean, everyone joked when I told them why I went there, because it's not an easy place to visit. But reality is these are one of those provincial towns that is going to grow. There's a lot of wealth in that area, more of a rural area. And you can see that it immediately gave us the returns when we acquired it. Mobility Solutions, I think there's a bit of a gamesmanship going between Mobility Solution, Aftermarket Parts. We'll see who's going to win it eventually because they both suddenly shot the lights up to over ZAR 1.2 billion. So Mobility Solutions, ZAR 1.274 billion, and you'll see Aftermarket Parts are slightly behind them. So we will see who wins the race ultimately. Kerry may complain that we buy a lot more business in Aftermarket Parts than Mobility Solutions. I may just have to watch that comment. But as you can see, very stable business. I mean this -- I mean we keep on reiterating. There's not a business that suddenly makes you a lot of money in 1 year and then drops again. You can see even half year-on-half year, it's actually been fairly stable. And that almost ZAR 1.3 billion, remarkable business to have in our stable and just giving us that annuity income streams even when times are tough with the importers. Turning over to the Aftermarket Parts. Obviously, large growth that you had there, I mean, that high growth obviously came from the acquisition we had in the previous year. We only added in for 9 months. Now we had it in for a full year. But over and above that, aftermarket parts as a whole in the U.K. and also in the adjacent areas now are really starting to show some really good growth. And as Osman mentioned earlier, this is before we've even unlocked all those synergies. We're still working on those. It's taking a little bit longer than what we initially hoped for, but you have to plan this well. And you have to also make sure your footprint are right in the areas that you can take advantage of this. So one of them was getting, for instance, a distribution center in the right areas, et cetera, so you can actually cater for the higher growth and a really good performance for our Aftermarket Parts business at ZAR 1.2 billion. Once again, the South African business didn't perform as well as the international one. So the same could probably apply. We did have one of our competitors, I think, at one stage, playing a bit of a weird game in this market when they were close on liquidation. So maybe they gave us a hard time by just dumping stock into the market. And they also had -- this probably was the one business that didn't have an impact through the ports. Residential ports, a lot in our space because the vehicles normally come in and out of those ports. But in the Aftermarket Parts side, we did feel the pain a little bit there. And this would be the star of the show, I assume, I mean, with the U.K. Aftermarket Parts business, a growth of 41%. And you can see that MPD is really -- we haven't even opened that many additional stores. This is just driving it pretty much through the existing stores that was there. So our market is very buoyant and we still expect great things from them. Not too much to say around the balance sheet. I think you all will be able to read it yourselves. I think -- just looking quickly at the working capital. And this slide doesn't quite show that reduction. I mean it just shows about ZAR 1.3 billion. But if you turn the page, you'll see this is where that inventory number of ZAR 32 billion became ZAR 27 billion. Of course, we had to reduce the trade payables as well as a result of that. And like I said earlier, some of those trade payables do carry interest as well. So that will give you an additional benefit on that line. The rest of our balance sheet, I suppose you have to look at that core debt. I mean the core debt reducing from ZAR 12 billion to ZAR 11 billion. And we do play a little bit of a -- we always have to look who gives you the best rate. So between Kobus and the dealership guys, we always have a look at exactly who gives you the best rate within floor plans, your own balance sheet. And actually, you just move them around as you see fit. So we've got floor plans and the creditors. We've got floor plans and debt, and you got core debt. And it's quite an interesting dynamic to look at your treasury that way. There, you can see the core debt and the floor plans, and you can see the one pretty much offset the other, and that was, as I just mentioned. So it takes you over to the cash flow. And I think the cash flow, Osman spoke a lot about it even earlier. I think this business very well positioned. I mean you can look at the top line before you talk about working capital and working [indiscernible] I mean it's ZAR 7.5 billion that you actually generate in this business by just pure trading. I mean, that is a large number. And that's probably the one benefit you will always see in being able to gear yourself up if there's particular acquisitions that you want to acquire. And I think that gearing ability, remember, we didn't raise any equity when we bought that big aftermarket parts business. I mean you normally go to a business and say, well, I'm going to buy something of ZAR 4.4 billion. The first question they ask is, are you going to raise capital. And the reality is we didn't. We borrowed knowing the cash flow ability of this group. And with that large cash flow funds that keeps on flowing through, you can always -- you can see your way through within a 2- or 3-year period to trade out of it. And that's pretty much where we've landed now. So as you can see, the cash from operations, if you look before the interest of the ZAR 6 billion and then if you deduct everything you do pretty much -- and you still get to ZAR 3.5 billion, which was proper free cash flow. What did you do with that money? Well, we did buy the small businesses. There was some CapEx. And then you can see the dividend that was paid during the year of ZAR 1.1 billion. And that's just a nice graph here to a waterfall slide, as you can see. I normally like to talk about this slide, but I'll skip it for today. So you can understand where the utilization of it's going to go. And I think in the short term, we're still going to stick to that. I think it's quite important for us to have the right working capital for our businesses to operate that we will obviously still -- it's still required. CapEx. I mean our CapEx doesn't suddenly jump up in 1 year, much higher than the other. I mean, you could see it was 800 and this year, you can probably expect that to continue. We will always have some CapEx as we're looking at dealerships. The one caveat on that is probably that in this current economic climate, we're also looking at reducing one or two dealerships, so you might get a inflow the other way, but with an easy number to predict. Final dividends, you can see the dividends that we've declared for you at ZAR 2.85 for this final dividend will be paid in October, and there will be a bit of outflow there. And then we continuously invest into innovation and digitization. And as we mentioned, the Capital Markets Day, we've never capitalized any of those costs. We actually expense them. So there's no big intangible sitting on the balance sheet somewhere that still needs to be written off. All the investments in that innovation and the digital platforms all been accounted for already. And then we'll always look at strategic bolt-on acquisitions. I think where it is a nice easy one for us would be in the same jurisdiction, if it's maybe a new brand. We'll look at those. I don't think we ever say no. We first look. It doesn't always make sense. But there is still some opportunities out there that we will certainly get pure bolt-ons. So as our overall growth strategy, you can see we're very reliant still on the organic growth. I think this particular year, I think South Africa should give us a bit of a kicker. As we're going in this year, we were a little bit on the back foot for the year past. And after you've come through that, I think you can feel the energy in the rooms when we talk to our EXCOs and certainly believe that we're quite optimistic on what could happen in the dealership and the importer space in this year. The growth in Mobility Solutions, I mean, there are definitely still some products that we currently develop. The servings offerings we will look at, and if there's any bolt-on acquisitions in the aftermarket space, we will look at those. In the U.K. and Australia, at the moment, I don't think there's any big acquisitions on the cards. I think it's also around organic growth to a large extent. But if those opportunities do come up, we will certainly look at those. So if you then need to predict the future, this is all over difficult. I don't think anyone can stand here and say exactly where we're going to be in a year's time. I think there's a lot of positiveness suddenly in the South Africa specifically, but also in the U.K., where they've also reduced interest rates already. We believe that interest rates will probably reduce in South Africa as well, and that gives you additional impetus. So if you can grow on -- and if you can use all of those, we believe that the single-digit revenue growth pretty much from our side, we believe, for the 6 months, that's quite a safe bet. We don't want to predict beyond December. So I think we first need to see where we land there. Operating profit, I mean, we -- as you could see, we were talking more organic than anything else, so you're probably going to find it you will get growth, but you will be constrained with the organic side. Where we will see a different kicker will be on that finance cost. And as we put out there that we believe a low double-digit net finance cost reduction is on the cards for the 6 months. We will still have sufficient cash and sufficient funding. If anything comes our way , which looks exciting as we want to have a look at. Clearly, there's a new finance team. There's a new -- who may be a bit more conservative as well on the first year. So we will have to work through that. But I suppose the reality is, as a business, the excitement sits with those EXCO members. And I think the EXCO members are all the ones in the room and also the ones online will know that there's -- in every business, there's opportunity, and those would be the ones we will ever look at. There's enough cash to go around, and we will actually make sure that we put that to good use. So very confident in the integrated model we've got. As you can see, if it wasn't for that, a diversified income stream, we will have struggled. So I think it was a good testament to our strategy that have been put in place in the past. And as we stand here, you can tell you that the strategies that we've had are still very much safe and the ones going forward. With that, I have one more comment on that is really that I'm going to miss Osman. I think 7 years on this date sometimes behind the black screen talking into them. That was quite tough during COVID. But I think as a mentor, but then also as a colleague and a friend, I really enjoyed working with you, sir. Thank you very much for everything that you've done for this group over the years. So with that, I would like to open for some questions. Thanks.

I don't have any questions on the floor? Or I don't know if there were some maybe online while we were busy. Anthony has got one here at the front.

If I can just talk to the prospects for the next 6 months. So in most of your divisions, your second half margin was better than your first half margin, particularly retail and rental and of course, import as well. So it feels like you've got some margin momentum going into the new year. You did speak about too many cars at the beginning of the year one needed to be discounting. There was quite a lot of promotional activity. So the cash on the bonnet, in fact, Osman that phrase didn't even come up today. So does that mean that cash on the bonnet, for instance, that kind of promotional discounting that's going to be a little bit less and that margin momentum into FY '25 is going to begin to build?

Yes, you certainly feel that as you enter this first half of this year, that you do come from a bit more of a positive base than what we maybe saw last year this time. Clearly, there's still some -- there was still some uncertainty in the market. But I think it was a good election for us. I think that was the best outcome for South Africa that we could have hoped for. We do believe that with inflation now turning down and interest rates, that you should see some positiveness not just in South Africa, but also in some of the other international markets. So do you feel as if you're slightly more on the front foot. And that's why we're positive that we believe that the operating profit we would be able to increase.

And then just in terms of the finance charge, you'd previously indicated maybe on an annualized basis, the finance cost to come down by roughly ZAR 500 million. And it seems if you're saying early double digits, I forget what the H1, H2 split is, but for the full year, it was ZAR 2.1billion, ZAR 2.2 billion. So more than ZAR 200 million lower in the first half and then perhaps a little bit more. So that ZAR 500 million still feels about right for the full year.

I think a few things maybe changed since the ZAR 500 million, so I wouldn't want to put that out as a number yet. I think let's first get past this first half. So the number last was ZAR 1.121 billion on your finance cost. So I think double digit, what we're saying is more than 10% on that. So that would give you in the region of just under ZAR 1 billion say for this first half. But I think there's still some work to be done there. Of course, you do kick off this year and then you immediately pay a dividend, which everyone tells me already, but the reality is that's what needs to happen as well. So you do have some outflows at the beginning and you need to pace yourself through it. But if the business is cash generative as it was in this last year, and you see the profits coming through. And obviously, that will play its part as well. We don't foresee any big acquisitions in this first half and only the bigger outflow would be on your vehicles for hire. But as you've got a turn back and the outflow, the one do you offset the other to some extent.

Okay. Great. I'm just realizing I've got my numbers wrong there.

The ZAR 500 million was relevant to -- Ockert's quite right, it was relevant at a point in time. But like I said, there's two areas that could bring that number down would be Australia. They're carrying more stock than they had. At that time, we didn't know these guys are going to be pumping stock our way. We're selling it, but it still we're going to hold it. Remember, it sometimes takes 6 to 8 weeks to deliver because you've got to build the back section of a [indiscernible]. So that would be one in the body builders. So it's not something that we misjudged or we didn't plan for, it is just that Australia and the U.K., it's just beyond our control. And I think that's the part that didn't -- wouldn't come out to play in this 6 months, and I think in the second 6 months will be harder. So -- if those two areas were not there, then the ZAR 500 million would have be in the bank, but those two areas are tough.

And car rental is doing really well. So there's still lots of demand for vehicles for that...

It's always easy when you're in the fifth floor to get to the tenth floor. But from the tenth floor to get to the fifteenth, that will be easy, because COVID were there. We brought it there, and now we're there. But now you're not going to get that kicker, where's Martin. I mean, he's the CEO looking after that. I can't see that kicker,I think you've now stabilized. Was your tourists are coming in, we picked up big numbers there. Namibia is doing quite nicely. I mean a lot of the tourists are going there. So I think from there, now we'll grow margin yet. There's no big checks in car rental. We've done our share.

There are two questions on the webcast. The first question, what is a normalized market share for your imported brands? And what can we expect as an operating profit margin going forward?

I don't it is a bit of yes -- this is a future -- that's a bit of a guessing. I suppose -- I mean, as we put out on the slides, I mean, we do still target 18% to 20%, we still believe that is definitely with achievable area. Margins are always difficult to call. I think we bank on [indiscernible] rather than margins. But as you could see, I mean, this business at a low where we came from, was at 4%. I think the previous year over 5.5%. I think that was -- I mean one stage, we were at 6%. It was maybe a bit on the high side. So margin or more general margin will probably be at about 4.5%. But it all depends whether you want to use as an assumption for your revenue. Rand [indiscernible] so was difficult. It's easier to call them, I think, margins. But if you want to use that, it's probably 4.5% to 5% now.

Morne, do you want to?

Yes. Osman and Ockert, we've seen doing extremely well at the lower end. And I don't think the Chinese market lower does come in yet. Do you think your focus might be there to prevent them taking market share from your Korean brands or not at this stage?

Yes. I suppose every OEM brings its own level of models that they've got. I think we play in the markets at in. I mean, as we said earlier, I mean, it's not like we're not going to support the Chinese brands is the one that the customer wants. Remember, we a little bit like chameleons. Whatever a customer wants on we can give you, we're going to bring it in and sell it, right? I think the Chinese brands are a little bit more into the SUV and the smaller to larger SUV sizes. So that's what you've seen them bringing in up to now. And in that space, I mean, we also certainly participate in that. We haven't seen them bring in lower end sort of entry-level models that you've seen more from the Indian manufacturing. And it's all to do with what sells in their home countries as well. Remember, we're quite a small country. We don't really manufacture just for us. They're really manufacture for their home countries. And in the end, we are one of those export countries where these models land up. So whatever comes here, I mean I think we will have a look. But on the pure entry-level side, you don't see too much of that actually in China themselves. So probably don't -- we won't see that here.

Another question from the webcast. It would appear that Motus and the entire SA automotive sector are waiting and banking on interest rate reductions to increase new vehicle demand. What trends is Motus seeing in the market? And are there any signs of an improvement in demand for new vehicles?

So I think as far as South Africa is concerned, we haven't seen any pickup. I mean, we saw the NAAMSA numbers yesterday. And what interest rates will do a reduction of, say, 50 basis points in October, will just help the momentum and create better sentiment. The market impact is more in the second half of 2025 because people will feel better, they'll still want to spend money, things like that. So the real impact of more car sales, market picking up from 520,000 to 550,000 and 560,000 will only happen from July onwards. The 50 basis points will just help the sentiment, people will feel better. We'll all just want to be more comfortable. So it wouldn't pick up until about July next year, I would think.

Do you see the improvement in the exchange rate of the rand providing a boost in sales?

Yes, I think it's always a bit of a delayed effect. So we'll probably see that the improvement in the rand won't mean that suddenly all vehicle prices comes down, I think as anyone knows that you hardly ever see. So the reality is you'll probably just find the late sales price increases, and that will stimulate the market. So I think long term or medium term, it will certainly have an impact, a positive impact. But in the real short term, between now and December, you won't see much of an impact yet.

The next question. Where do you see the percentage contributions to the group from SA versus international moving in the medium term? And are you anticipating higher growth from offshore than SA?

So you've certainly seen the big kicker in this year, but as I cautioned you as well as South Africa didn't perform well. I think, we would obviously want both, SA and International perform very well. And then you will probably still be below that 35%. Medium term, we still believe that there's quite a bit of growth opportunities for us, specifically in the Aftermarket Parts space. So I think that will certainly provide a further kicker for us on the operating profit side. So medium term, we would still set our sights on the 60-40 sort of in the next, call it, 3 to 5 years. But I think for this initial year, we would want South Africa to perform better, and it may bring that percentage down in the short term.

Then there's a question around the Aftermarket Parts segment. What is your U.K. strategy for MPD and FAI?

Yes. So it's -- I think we've had quite a few strategic sessions on exactly what we can do with both of those businesses now in our fold. FAI is pretty much -- we've now termed it really wholesale and retail to be quite honest. So on your wholesale side, I think the first big kicker that we can see there is that if we can procure better, coming from those market -- from those products coming from specifically China, you would then be able to feed it into the U.K. market, but also into adjacent areas like Europe and adjacent markets to the U.K. Straight through into MPD is we've already launched one particular brand, which is FAI PRO, which is now a brand that we can own, we can market and we control. And that has already provided us quite a nice kicker in the short term. So FAI selling through MPD a little bit more of the FAI type of products like the FAI PRO, which we can control and that will give you a larger margin. So a further margin expansion you should see within that business going forward as well, if you can sell through your own vertical integration. So that is sort of twofold, right, we can see in the, call it, the short to medium term.

So just that everyone understand what happens with the FAI PRO. So spark plugs are made by particular factories, you buy them. The spark plug will come into your Chinese factor -- your warehouse, you put the FAI box in, or you put whatever boxes you need to. So a lot of the parts you put now, we want to put FAI PRO. FAI PRO then comes, but it doesn't sell as a branded, it sells one below. So you're very competitive in the market. So it could sell 10%, 15% cheaper than the branded name, sometimes 20% cheaper. So you keep yourself more relevant to the -- The guy who wants NGK, will buy NGK, don't worry. And it's not relevant only to South Africa. It happens in the U.K. as well. It happens in Europe as well. So that person will buy the NGK. Then FAI PRO will come in here, and that's where we want to sell. We're not making NGK reach. We're building our own brand. And if we can get over a period of the next 3, 4, 5 years, you get 40% of your sales from FAI PRO. Can you imagine what brand we've created? Our own brand, but we know where we're buying from. We buy cheaper, and we can sell into a market at a cheaper price. So FAI PRO sounds quite generic, but there's a lot science behind it. And then remember when the products come, we just don't buy product from every Tom, Dick and Harry. We're going to check the quality. What warranty does it come in? Is it covered by insurance in case there's a recall? So all that work is done in the background before it goes into that box and before it gets to the consumer. So there's a lot of that happening behind the scenes. But creating this FAI PRO, it's a great excitement that we'll have. And remember, when we're talking -- we're not selling in Poland, we're selling in Spain. We're selling Portugal. We sell -- and those people don't all want top of the brand. They want that middle, and that's we believe there's quite a bit of market there.

And then we're only able to take one more question from the webcast. Is Motus looking to consider potentially adding a new brand for the -- for an OEM market into important distribution?

Yes, we've certainly been quite active in trying to see if we can get another one. I think the reality is we've got the infrastructure, we've got the ability to really give it some impetus if we can get the right brand. I think we've also wanted to make sure that we're only backing the one that we believe can give us enough volume going forward because that's your other risk, is if you take one, you probably can't take another one in the short term again. So it's certainly looking and hopefully, we can have more on that in the next 6 months.

Okay. Ockert, that's your speech.

Thank you.

Well done Ockert. Just for me to close off, I think all I'm saying to you is that what Motus has developed a very sustainable business into the future, protected itself from cyclicality, and it's -- it will create cash -- generate cash and be a consistent player in the game. So Motus is not going to double its profits in the next 3 years, but there's no chance of halving its profits either, a. B, it's going to be cash generative. I showed you the cash numbers. After working capital and after car rental. So I think what we've got is a fantastic business with a very strong foundation. Things don't happen by mistake. We created the one Motus. It's all done, all the hard work's behind us. Now we're just sweating what we've got. And I think that's what we will achieve. So the strategies will remain very much alive and well. So all I want to say is firstly, I just want to thank Ockert and the EXCO team for allowing me this opportunity to lead this business for the last 6, 7 years that I've been working with you guys. It's been an absolute honor to work with you guys. What we set out to achieve, we have achieved. Thank you. Because I couldn't have done it, but I've done it with a great team, and I know our colleagues in the U.K., in Australia, all came to the party. So I shouted them sometimes, but they respected the shouting because of my age, I suppose. And we've achieved what we wanted to achieve. So Ockert, I wish you all the best. I mean the team you've got is a great team, with Kerry and Tatu and Fundia and Rhenier sitting there, Martin, Berenice, Kobus, everyone else sitting here, and some on the phone, you guys will go the extra mile. So I'm very confident. And then obviously, I'm very privileged to have my Chairman here today. I mean he supported me from the day I phoned him and I said, will you join my Board because I knew him from the Caresso days and the Imperial days. And he said, any time I'll join you. And J.J., I really appreciated your leadership and guidance and you've directed, not only me, but the Board and Motus to where we are today. So thank you to you and Saleh and Ayesha to lead. Fundia and I, we actually worked together at Imperial, and then we joined -- she joined me as a nonexecutive. So to the non-execs, great support that we've had, and it will continue. And to our auditors, PwC. I know it was difficult. We were all worried new auditors asking difficult questions, being awkward, we didn't have any of that. So PwC, well done. To our bankers. There's a lot of bankers here today. So thank you for your support, and it's been great to have you because we can only grow and sell cars with your balance sheet. So we rely on you, relax. We will use your balance sheet to sell cars and make money. And to the analysts who have been following us and the shareholders amongst you guys, thank you for your support, long may it last. It's a great foundation. This business will grow from strength to strength. And we built the foundation with great people that will walk the extra mile with you. So to each one of you, thank you for supporting us over this difficult period. But I can only be positive now that interest rates coming down, people feeling good, markets we're in are good. We've matured this business. It can only go better. It won't get worse. To the back-stage guys, thank you for you guys for all your support. I'm not talking to a screen anymore. I'm talking to people. So thank you to you guys. Justine, well done. I mean great presentations. My 12th time I'm doing it. So I know you were there for about 8, I would think out of the 12. So it's been great. And I wish you guys all the very best, and thank you so much for your support. God bless.