MPC Container Ships ASA (MPCC) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon and good morning, everyone. This is Constantin Baack, CEO of MPC Container Ships, and I'm joined by our co-CEO and CFO, Moritz Fuhrmann. I would like to welcome you to our Q4 2024 earnings call. Thank you for joining us to discuss MPC Container Ship's fourth quarter and 2024 earnings. This morning, we have issued a stock market announcement covering MPCC's fourth quarter results for the period ending December 31, 2024. The release, as well as the accompanying presentation for this conference call, are available in the Investor and Media section of our website. Please be advised that some of the material provided and our discussion today contains forward-looking statements and indicative figures. Actual results may differ materially from those stated or implied by forward-looking statements due to the risks and uncertainties associated with our business. Before we guide you through the Q4 earnings call presentation, let me share some initial reflections on the past quarter and the year 2024. We are very pleased to report another solid performance and a strong quarterly result today despite prevailing macroeconomic and geopolitical uncertainties. Overall, Q4 2024 has been another rock-solid quarter for MPCC, both financially and operationally, running off a really good year 2024. During 2024, we have taken several strategic steps as we have continued to execute our strategy of selective fleet renewal, including retrofits, buying, selling, and thereby optimizing our fleet profile, making use of market opportunities as they arise, both in terms of vessel sales and acquisitions, but also in terms of making use of attractive funding opportunities, for example, raising our sustainability-linked senior unsecured bond. And at the same time, we have maintained a strong and highly flexible balance sheet. And very importantly, we continue to reward you, our shareholders. With that said, I'm happy to hand over to Moritz.

Thank you, Constantin. Also, from my side, good morning and good afternoon to everyone. As usual, we have split the presentation into 3 parts: the highlights, the market section, and the outlook. Kicking off with the highlights. We continue as Constantin has just mentioned to post strong results, both from a financial and operational perspective. While the full-year revenue was USD 524 million, adjusted EBITDA came in line with the last quarter at USD 72 million for the fourth quarter and USD 325 million on a full-year basis. The container and chartering markets remain quite favorable as we continue to take advantage of the prevailing market environment. We have further increased the employment coverage in line with our long-term chartering strategy. And as a result, the backlog now stands at around USD 1.1 billion, with 92% and 64% coverage for '25 and '26, respectively. In addition, the Board of Directors has declared the company's 13th consecutive dividend, bringing the total for the year to $0.42 per share. And going forward and with the backlog and coverage that we have, we will continue to distribute dividends emphasizing on shareholder return. Throughout 2024, we have been working continuously on our fleet optimization. While taking delivery of our first newbuildings into the fleet in the second and third quarters of '24, we have also furthermore added 7 vessels into our fleet. At the same time, we have offloaded 5 older and smaller vessels, of which the last one was finally delivered to its respective buyers in the course of the fourth quarter of '24, resulting in a book gain of around USD 11 million. To support the fleet renewal, we have leveraged sustainable financing solutions as we raised an ECA-covered green loan as well as successfully placed an unsecured sustainability-linked bond in the Nordic bond market. Overall, we retain a very robust balance sheet with low leverage and roughly 2/3 of our fleet being completely debt-free, which obviously provides us with great balance sheet flexibility going forward. Also, looking ahead into '25 and as the market continues to be supportive, we will strongly focus on further driving our fleet optimization and retrofit program to improve the fleet composition and also enhance long-term shareholder value. Based on our backlog, we set our revenue guidance to USD 515 million to USD 530 million and our EBITDA guidance to USD 290 million to USD 310 million. Turning to the next slide and looking at some KPIs for the fourth quarter. Revenue, EBITDA as well as profitability are more or less in line with the previous quarter. On a full-year basis, the trend shows that in '23, obviously, the legacy backlog has been benefiting stronger results relative to '24. However, I think it's important to note that in the past 9 months, the charter market has been very strong, increasing the revenue backlog again for the first time since 2023. From a balance sheet perspective, the delivery of the 4 3,800 TEUs on long-term charter has been driving the increase in total assets. Simultaneously, we have raised USD 125 million in unsecured bonds and drew under a new USD 30 million term loan that is secured by 2 35 TEUs on long-term charter that we have acquired over the summer. Consequently, the leverage ratio has increased relative to the previous quarters. However, it remains at a low level of 28%. As mentioned before, the Board has declared a dividend of $0.09 per share, which will be paid in March 2025, and the operational cash flow generation remains strong at USD 77 million. We continue to see a good fleet utilization of more than 97%. While OpEx has gone up based on some nonrecurring CapEx reclassification, meaning we don't expect to see this in the coming quarters to occur again. Looking at Slide #5 and reflecting on the current charter market dynamics, it is evident by the latest pictures that we continue to experience very strong demand by the liner companies supporting rates and duration levels we have already seen over the past 9 to 12 months. Since our last reporting, we have concluded 4 new fixtures, predominantly on smaller vessels in our fleet; however, they still show durations of mostly 2 years. And we also continue to have very encouraging discussions with our customers also on forward positions for early extensions. For the remainder of 2025, we only have 9 vessels open for rechartering, basically shielding our P&L to a large extent from any adverse market movements. On the asset side, as mentioned before, we have taken delivery of four 3,800 TEUs as well as the first GreenBox newbuild, a 1,300 TEU methanol dual fuel vessel, on a 15-year time charter. In addition to the delivery of AS Paola to her respective buyers, we have sold AS Fenja another vessel, and already delivered here in January 2025 for a total consideration of $8.6 million. As the fleet optimization continues, we have now 3 methanol dual-fuel vessels in our fleet, of which 2 are yet to be delivered from the respective yards. We have 11 eco vessels following the delivery of two 5,500 TEUs, and we have 29 vessels that have been or will be retrofitted significantly, enhancing the vessel's efficiency. This is obviously a result of an extensive investment program in the amount of around USD 600 million, helping us substantially to renew the fleet and also align with our ESG targets. Turning to the next slide. Looking at the recent balance sheet development, it is obvious that 2024 has been a very busy year on the financing front. We have arranged and drawn under a number of facilities to support the fleet optimization efforts, most notably are the drawdown under our first ECA-covered loan, the arrangement of our ECA-covered green loan, and the USD 125 million unsecured sustainability-linked bond. By reshuffling of some of our financing arrangements over the past 12 months, we have no debt maturity before the second half of 2027. In general, we follow a very strict financing principle, trying obviously to align leverage and cash flow visibility, while at the same time, keeping a substantial part of the fleet unencumbered or debt-free. Our financing silos, which you can see at the bottom of the slide, clearly outline the comfortable employment coverage that we have against the heightened financing breakeven, while the debt-free silos feature both a comfortable breakeven level as well as sufficient headroom between those breakevens and the current employment cover. In MPCC, we eventually intend to carefully manage residual risk and position our assets best for the volatile shipping markets that we operate in. Looking at Slide #7. This quarter marks our 13th consecutive dividend, bringing the total number of distributions to USD 977 million or NOK 22.35, which basically equates 120% of the current market cap, which is, I think, a very strong testament of our commitment to returning capital to our shareholders. For the full year 2024, the dividend yield is 36% if the share would have been acquired in January of the same year. However, most importantly, and with the great earnings visibility going forward, we will continue to walk the talk and we'll stick to our distribution policy, paying 75% of our adjusted net profit, continuing to emphasize on shareholder return. Turning to Slide #8, the last slide of the highlights section, we can see the strong operational cash flow as well as the investment into the four 3,800s that we took delivery of in Q4 '24. This is being offset by the corresponding debt drawdowns under the unsecured bond and the secured facility from First Citizen Bank in connection with the two 3,500 TEUs. Following the cash payment of the Q3 '24 dividend, cash overall slightly decreased by USD 9 million. However, in addition, we retained roughly USD 80 million in undrawn RCF capacity, basically being further implied liquidity. And all in all, we in MPCC remain very disciplined on the capital allocation side of things. And on that note, I hand back over to Constantin for the market update and the outlook section.

Thank you, Moritz. As just mentioned by Moritz, I would like to continue with the next agenda point and provide an update on the market, starting with the charter market and asset values. So please turn to Slide 10, where you can see the developments of charter rates as per the HARPEX index, which is the blue line as well as Clarksons secondhand price index being the red line. Basically, since the start of the year, both have increased steadily with charter rates being up around 150% and secondhand prices up a shade above 40% compared to the beginning of 2024. The fourth quarter, in particular, has been characterized by elevated asset values and time charter rates. And if you look at the fourth quarter, we have seen 61 secondhand transactions with around 175,000 TEU being executed, which is a reflection of that part mainly being feeder vessels. The time charter market has plateaued in Q4 2024 with strong rates, certainly due to low vessel availability and also positive sentiment. And also during the first couple of months of 2025, where we have initially seen a slower start to the year until Chinese New Year. But over the past few weeks, the charter market and the S&P market have been fairly active with rates, periods and also asset prices rather increasing than decreasing. In terms of secondhand activity, again, 2024 looking at that year has been the third strongest year on record in terms of secondhand sales recorded with a total of 290 vessels and 1 million TEU changing hands. And despite a seasonal slowdown, there's continued buying interest in the market, as I've alluded to a minute ago. Looking at the time charter index and as far as that is concerned, it has recently moved sideways, but it has been gaining strength for, amongst others, the reason of limited supply because vessel availability is becoming less and less pronounced. And that is actually a good transition to the next slide. So please turn to Slide 11 when talking about vessel availability. On Slide 11, you can see the developments of forward availability of vessels, which has significantly dropped in 2024 and the substantial drawdown of open positions has helped charter rates to remain healthy, as mentioned on the previous slide. And even after the election of U.S. President Trump, charters tried to secure vessels in advance. And as a result, forward rig fixing has increased in Q4 2024, but also after the Chinese New Year in 2025. As you can see on the right-hand side, charter periods have also become longer. And Moritz has commented on some of our recent fixtures earlier in the presentation and the average durations of fixtures below 5,000 TEU increased to an average of more than 16 months. The actual figures are actually above that as the index is lagging behind. So in terms of utilization, the nonoperating owner fleet can still be deemed fully deployed based on a very low count of idle vessels in today's market. Now let me continue with a view on the order book. Going forward, the market, in our opinion, will be driven by 3 key topics, and we'll allude to some of these key topics in the next 2 slides. The first topic is discussed on Slide 12. Here, we show the existing fleet on the water, including age profile next to the actual order book by vessel size. And you can see there's a box around the segment, which is the MPCC focus. Nothing new, but the fleet is very much skewed towards the large units. As we have stated before, we are of the opinion that the fleet, and particularly vessels of 8,000 TEU and below are developing an age problem. The global fleet in that size bracket is getting older and older and emission reduction demands from environmental stakeholders are getting tougher by the year, including regulation. Some more facts on the order book. As of February 2025, the order book-to-fleet ratio of the fully cellular fleet stood at around 27%, which is the result of continuous and considerable new building contracting during the second half of 2024, including Q4. However, by comparison, MPCC's segments feature a significantly lower order book-to-fleet ratio of around 3% only. On top of that, we need to consider the fleet renewal potential, which is indeed mainly present in the smaller ship sizes with around 26% to 28% of the feeder and Panamax vessels being our core segment being more than 20 years of age. Consequently, going forward, we expect we will see more ordering also in our size brackets, and we consider it beneficial to own modern vessels in the sub-8,000 TEU segment. In addition to the order book dynamics just mentioned and hence, supply-side pressure, we have listed a few key topics for the market outlook 2025 on Slide 13. In that respect, I would like to highlight 2 key topics. The likely most important topic for container shipping demand relates to the Red Sea crisis. It has obviously boosted the charter market and freight market in 2024, and it has continued to provide tailwinds to charter rates as it stands today. So a return to the Red Sea would see average transport distances declining by around 12% compared to last year. So the shortened supply chains could trigger a domino effect with reduced weekly cargo demand while networks are being rearranged. Additionally, vessels would be sorted out of affected trades and need to look for new employment. However, a continuous bypassing of the Red Sea would leave the TEU mile booster of 12% in place and keep the operator's vessel in high demand. So that is a key topic and it has been key for 2024. It will be highly relevant for 2025, and the jury is out to see how the development will continue. Another key topic refers to U.S. tariffs. With the new U.S. administration at work, the trade tensions between the U.S. and China and other countries have already intensified, including Canada and Mexico. On the one hand, tariffs and other regulatory measures create uncertainties among market participants, in particular, shippers, potentially dampening investment and future trade growth. So that is certainly an uncertainty that remains to be observed carefully in the months and quarters ahead. However, ultimately, they render the international exchange of goods and products more expensive for producers and consumers alike. And all these measures will, in our view, not stop container trade as it is just another way that the U.S. has identified to generate cash from the immense amount of U.S. foreign trade at the expense of producers and consumers. So there are also a few reasons to remain optimistic. Again, the Red Sea situation is still uncertain. However, there are certainly some wildcard events coming our way in 2025. Now let me continue with the company outlook section of the presentation. Let's move to the next slide, Slide 15, where I would like to start with our charter backlog on the left-hand side. You can find some details there on our forward coverage in a commonly used format. So by year, including the overall backlog of USD 1.1 billion, the respective contracted forward revenues by year in the dark blue boxes and in the columns, you can see the open days and fixed days on an operational basis for the years ahead. As explained by Moritz in detail, we have strategically utilized the strong charter market during Q4 2024 and throughout the year, locking in solid period charters at very healthy rates for the existing fleet and also for some of our modern eco vessels that we acquired earlier this year. Hence, on the back of this, we have added a substantial volume to our backlog and we are looking at USD 1.1 billion by the end of the year. In terms of coverage for the remainder of the year, we have 92% of all operating days covered. And even for 2026, we already have around 64% of the operating days covered. When you compare that with previous years in 2024 on our annual earnings call wrapping up the year 2023, the backlog was more in the vicinity of 78% for that year and 36% for the year thereafter. So we are actually -- have the best coverage that we ever had going into 2025 with high visibility and a very strong book of counterparties that you can see on the right-hand side. When looking at the counterparties, as you can see, we have more than 90% of our charter contracts with top 10 liner companies all backed by long-term cargo commitments. The next slide now shows the upcoming and fixed charter positions for our fleet in 2025 and 2026. We have 13 positions open until the end of -- potentially open, I should say, until the end of the year 2025, of which 4 vessels highlighted in gray here have a more flexible redelivery window based on the present rate environment, we expect that these are more likely 2026 positions, in fact, and therefore, will roll over into the next year, meaning we probably have 9 to 13 positions open for this year. For 2026, we have 28 charter positions open the distribution, in particular of the 25 positions by quarter are shown on the very left-hand side of this overview. On a number of 2025 positions, we are presently already in discussions with some of our charter clients regarding early extensions, and we also see quite some buying interest in some of the vessels. As we always do, we are comparing the achievable sales price with the value in use for an asset, i.e., we compare the option to possibly sell provided the sale can be developed with the option to charter out the vessel. And taking rational and prudent decisions in that respect has been the backbone of how we have navigated MPCC in the market, and we will continue to do so in the best interest of both our customers and also our shareholders. Now let me continue with a slide setting out our value proposition. And I would very much like to run you through this little bridge here on Slide 17, as we firmly believe MPCC has a very strong value proposition, including significant upside going forward. And let me tell you why I think that is the case. Going from left to right here, we have looked at the net interest-bearing debt as per the end of the quarter, the current market cap based on the current share price to arrive at an enterprise value of around $953 million. We have then compared that with the projected EBITDA backlog that we have on our fleet today and then added the market value of the vessels. And it is worth noting that the current enterprise value is fully covered by the projected EBITDA backlog and the recycling value of our fleet. Meaning, no value being attributed to our fleet above and beyond the existing contracts and the recycling value of the fleet, providing, firstly, a very solid protection, but secondly, and very importantly, also a very significant upside potential from the existing fleet of 61 vessels and also further earnings capacity. So we see both a very good downside risk protection and we see a significant upside when looking at MPCC and certainly looking at some of the charter consolidations that we're currently discussing with some of our customers, which would immediately add value, but also at what price levels one could potentially dispose individual assets. Now let me look a bit -- take a step back and let me reflect on some of our strategic developments over the past years and how we will continue to navigate and build MPCC going forward in order to create value regardless of market environment on Slide 18. As you can see, and we have used this slide in the past, but it is a good reflection of the transition and of where we are today, and also our path going forward. Looking at the left-hand side, Q3 2021, we have looked at a revenue backlog of $1.1 billion. We had not commenced our distribution and executing our distribution plan. We had only 3 debt-free vessels and a leverage ratio of 35%, whilst at the same time, 100% of our fleet were conventional vessels. Today, we have, again, a revenue backlog of $ 1.1 billion that we have been able to strategically build up over the past quarters and years. And at the same time, we have followed a clear capital allocation strategy that addresses all key areas of our business. Firstly, we have returned significant capital to our shareholders in form of dividends as we have declared close to USD 1 billion in dividends over the last 13 quarters. Secondly, we have strengthened our balance sheet by reducing our leverage and freeing up collateral, and we are now looking at 39 debt-free vessels, which represents around 2/3 of our vessel portfolio. Hence, we have a very robust balance sheet, including significant investment capacity going forward. And finally, as explained by Moritz earlier in the presentation, we have also optimized and renewed our fleet. We have been disciplined, but we have also made use of market opportunities to create additional value for MPCC and our shareholders. Now before we open the floor for questions, let me summarize some of the key takeaways from today's call. Firstly, we have seen a very solid performance in Q4 2024, and very importantly, also going into 2026 on the back of which we have communicated our guidance for 2025 of $515 million to $530 million in revenues and $290 million to $310 million in EBITDA. On the basis of a rock-solid balance sheet with significant investment capacity to carry out accretive transactions, we believe we are in a very good position to support our fleet renewal strategy going forward. And finally, and going forward, we will continue to follow this path with a very transparent and clear set of principles to be a reliable partner to our stakeholders, to our charter customers, to our shareholders, and to our employees onshore and on board of our ships. And with that said, I would like to open the floor for questions, and thank you for the interest so far.

Turning to the Q&A now. A few questions have come in during the presentation. First question from Evan. Can you give guidance on the expected depreciation for the first quarter '25 and full year 2025? I presume that question is relating to the somewhat lower depreciation we have seen in the fourth quarter of '24. This is due to an IFRS effect -- IFRS depreciation effect on the four 3,800 TEU vessels that we have acquired. And we expect those implications on the balance sheet and P&L to normalize during the full year of 2025. The next question is in regards to what we would call fleet optimization from [ Niels ]. Can you add some flavor to what you're looking for in potential deals, size of vessels, age profile attached charter contracts? I think the answer is obviously, it's derived from where the market is. Right now, we are moving within the market environment that is from a historical perspective, closer to the peak. But nevertheless, we try to execute opportunities as we've done in the second half of '24. I just mentioned the four 3,800s, where we managed to line up long-term charter contracts. So eventually, for us, it's all about managing residual risk. Generally speaking, obviously, we try to drive a fleet renewal over time. Hence, we would rather look at younger, more modern eco vessels from a secondhand perspective. If there is a unique opportunity as we've seen last summer to acquire 15-year-old vessels and have a full derisking by a long-term charter, we will obviously look at those vessels as well. But the focus clearly is on younger secondhand tonnage and potentially also new builds. Obviously, needless to say, we would not order new builds on a speculative basis. We will always try to combine with a long-term charter and provide some sort of derisking. I think in terms of vessel size, we would probably gradually look into slightly larger vessels, not necessarily saying we would look beyond 8,000 or 9,000 TEU, but slightly larger within the context of 1,000 to 8,000 TEU. And that's also why we had 2 good examples again last year with the 3,500 and 3,800 TEU vessels that we acquired and fitted perfectly into our fleet.

Then there's another question from [ Stern Hartwig ]. Looking at your execution track record as described on Slide 18, how has the age profile of the fleet changed over this period from 2021 to today, basically? I don't have the exact number, but generally speaking, we have obviously replaced more vintage tonnage with more modern tonnage. We have done some new building. So I would say, in rough terms, we are now somewhere between 14.5 and 15 years of age on our fleet, and we have probably had the same age profile in 2021. So we are constantly kind of renewing the fleet. And I think it's all about maintaining not just a high backlog in terms of EBITDA backlog and revenue backlog but also having kind of a long tail in terms of being able to generate earnings for a longer period and hence, increase the value of the company. And that's the way we look at it, how many operating days over a useful life of an asset are we actually having? That's another way of looking at age, obviously. But that's the way we look at it. And in general terms, we have, over the last 3 years, probably kept the same age profile, although 3 years have passed. Then there's another question by [ Niels Thomas ]. Has the trend in charter durations changed after the Israel-Hamas ceasefire was announced? I would put it differently. As mentioned during the presentation, we have seen a bit less activity in terms of chartering activity, not referring to rates or periods in any instance. But ahead of Chinese New Year, we have seen less activity. After the Chinese New Year, we have seen more activity. The ceasefire announcement has obviously led to a situation where there was, at least for a couple of days, very limited activity because everyone was -- especially the liners were looking at what that would bring and how that would actually develop going forward. But in general, and as I've mentioned during the presentation, we have actually seen activity picking up, and that is applicable both in terms of number of charter requirements in the market by the liners after Chinese New Year, so over the last 2 to 3 weeks and also in terms of slightly higher rates and slightly longer periods. So we're actually seeing a positive impact on the charter market over the last 3 weeks. The sustainability of that remains to be seen. But where we are today, that is quite firm. And we are also seeing more interest from an S&P standpoint. So people are interested in acquiring ships at levels which are in a historical context, obviously, quite elevated and not unattractive to put it that way. So overall, in terms of charter rates and asset values, we are seeing a firm charter market and a firm S&P market at the moment. Going forward, that obviously remains to be seen. But the availability of tonnage is very limited, as alluded to in the presentation, way less than in the past couple of years. So that is obviously a stabilizing factor.

Then there's the next question. Thank you for the presentation. With USD 290 million to USD 310 million projected EBITDA, does the projected dividend is 70% of that range. First of all, the dividend is 75% and the dividend is not derived from the EBITDA. EBITDA is not an official accounting figure. Our dividend is linked to the net profit of the company. Obviously, between the EBITDA figure and the net profit of the company, there are a few line items that needs to be considered. So the answer clearly is no. Obviously, you can have a look at some of the past performance in terms of cost items to maybe get a proxy of what could be a dividend and also reminding that the dividend is being resolved by the Board on a quarterly basis. But obviously, since we have formulated very clearly what the dividend policy is and having a strong backlog, there is a certain likelihood of dividends also being paid going forward. But again, it's being derived from the adjusted net profit of the P&L and not the EBITDA figure.

And there's another question from [indiscernible]. Could you talk a bit about the returns you are seeing on efficiency retrofits on your existing vessels? What kind of IRRs are you realizing? Let me start with the IRR question because that is not that easy to derive. I mean, obviously, the way we carry out the retrofit measures, we -- in most instances, I would say, 90% of the retrofits that we have carried out, we have done that hand in glove with our chartering customers in exchange for something. And something can be a participation in the CapEx. It can be extension of the charter. It can be -- those are the most relevant aspects or contributions. And we're looking more at it in terms of payback, what kind of EBITDA can we actually lock in and how can we actually derisk that investment. And we're basically getting more out of it than we have invested in each and every case. And in addition, afterward, we have a better ship. So that's the IRR part of things. Secondly, for our customers, the payback is somewhere between -- usually somewhere between one to 2 years, depending on the specific ship and on the trading area, et cetera. And in terms of efficiency, it obviously depends on what you do, right? We do -- sometimes we do smaller retrofit measures. But if we do kind of the full lot, which means paint system, bulbous bow, propeller, et cetera, that depending again on the ship size, but we have seen efficiency gains of somewhere between 15% to 25%, which obviously, again, depends on the trading profile and on the trading speed, et cetera. But that is obviously a very significant savings in terms of cost, in terms of emissions. And it is basically the way we operate being very closely associated and linked with our charter customers. And I think that is also a unique aspect where -- and that has also only been done by a limited number of container tonnage providers hand-in-hand with the charter customers. Then there is one more question. Any thoughts on MPCC's capital allocation strategy should the market deteriorate in the next 12 to 24 months? Obviously, a very relevant question, and we have always been quite clear in communicating the capital allocation strategy. We have been in the beginning of MPCC's development in 2017 and '18, we have deployed a lot of capital, bought a lot of ships, and have over the recent years, been more in harvesting mode with a more balanced capital allocation strategy, meaning a clear commitment to returning capital to investors, but at the same time, also reducing leverage, making our balance sheet highly flexible and reducing debt in order to gain a low-risk profile, but at the same time, also have sufficient investment capacity for opportunities that may arise. And at the same time, renewing the fleet. And that is to the point of our -- I think it was Slide 18 in the presentation, where we have explained how a balanced capital allocation strategy can work. Of course, should the market deteriorate, we do believe, first of all, we are quite isolated from any market developments this year with only 8% of the days open with a very clear backlog and high earnings visibility. We actually believe that, that could be an attractive opportunity to invest. So in factoring that into our balanced capital allocation strategy, that would be obviously also an emphasis on possibly investing. However, I think we have shown over the last 8 years that we have been very clear in communicating what we do and when we do it and adjusting to market realities, and we will stick to that plan when it comes to capital allocation going forward. Then there is one more question by August Klemp, a familiar question, but how are you thinking of share buybacks these days given that EBITDA backlog and scrap covers the current enterprise value. Of course, share buyback is something that we consider. We have it also baked into our distribution policy, which includes also the optionality to possibly make use of some of the, let's say, distribution potential within the policy to also buy back shares. We have also done some share buybacks in the past. And clearly, that is something that we monitor very carefully. But at the moment, the market is obviously highly volatile. So we will definitely play our cards wisely on that aspect. Certainly, the momentum at the moment is not particularly favorable, although earnings are very stable, not just our earnings, but also the charter market and the assets market. So we would definitely think about that. If the vessels that we have sold most recently, we've probably sold them at an implied NAV per share somewhere between NOK 25 and NOK 30, I would say, if not above that. And seeing the share trade at NOK 18, NOK 19, that is obviously something to seriously consider, August. So yes, we are looking at it. Yes, we are considering it, and it might be in the mix going forward. Then there's one question regarding, can you talk a little about the effects you can face with the new proposed U.S. port fees? How many port calls do you have in the U.S. And how many port calls do you have in the U.S. per year? Obviously, that is a moving picture, so to say, particularly because trading pattern changes over time. I don't have the exact number for port calls in the U.S. for last year. We have a number of ships trading in the Americas. That's probably 25% of the fleet, maybe 20%. If you look at our overall fleet of above 60 ships, we have below 1/3 of the vessels actually being Chinese-built. So there is exposure. And I guess if these figures become reality, that clearly has an impact. Obviously, the port calls are not on our account, but it's on the account of the liner operators. So that's, I think, very important to note. But in general, obviously, there is an exposure. Having said that, most of the -- I wouldn't call it noise, but most of the tariff threats that have been brought forward over the last couple of weeks and months have not materialized yet. That doesn't mean they will not materialize going forward. But at least my personal view is that this is also a way to strike a deal on certain aspects between the U.S. and the respective counterparties. So it is something to obviously carefully consider and carefully observe. But I think it's too early to draw a full conclusion on the impact that might have. Again, we will be exposed if that becomes a reality with our fleet, but it's not necessarily our costs.

There is one question on financing. What was the main reason for the sale and leaseback? I presume the question is referring to the BoComm lease that we have concluded in the second half of '23. Obviously, a sale and leaseback is a particular financing instrument that we wanted to add to the roster, so to speak. The attractiveness of a sale and leaseback is obviously, it comes at a relatively high leverage and low covenants. But generally speaking, from a leverage strategy, we obviously try to broaden the lending universe as much as possible. So yes, we've done a sale and leaseback, but we also have concluded on ECA-covered financing. We've done a green loan first half of last year, we concluded -- basically, we tapped the Nordic bond market, placing an unsecured sustainability-linked bond there. We are very close in concluding a financing in the Japanese market. We are entertaining relationships with European lenders and American lenders. So you can see we have a broad variety of both debt instruments, but also lenders that we can tap, which obviously looking ahead and also in line with our fleet renewal and fleet optimization strategy is of crucial importance to execute on those opportunities.

All right. We will wait one more minute, but there are no further questions at this stage. All right. That seems to be the case that there are no further questions. I would like to thank everyone for their attendance and for their interest. And at MPCC, we're looking forward to 2025. And stay tuned. I'm looking forward to staying in touch. All the best. Take care. Bye-bye.