Multi Commodity Exchange of India Limited (MCX) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Multi Commodity Exchange of India Limited Q3 FY '25 Earnings Conference Call. Joining us on the call are Ms. Praveena Rai, Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer; Mr. Manoj Jain, Chief Operating Officer; Mr. Chandresh Shah, Chief Financial Officer; Mr. Rishi Nathany, Chief Business Officer; and Mr. Praveen DG, Chief Risk Officer. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Praveena Rai, MD and CEO. Please go ahead.

Good evening, everybody. Welcome to the call. Wonderful to be talking to all of you. MCX has had another really good quarter. We've just released our results yesterday evening. As you would have seen, we've closed our Q3 consolidated income from operations at INR 301 crores. That's 57% growth over same time last year. For this quarter, the PAT has increased to INR 160 crores. Same time last year, we were under the water by INR 5.35 crores and last quarter was at INR 153 crores. On the trading front, the numbers have been very healthy. For 9 months ending the quarter, our average daily turnover, the ADT of futures and options together, reached INR 2,09,000 crores, and I'm giving approximate numbers here. This is 106% year-over-year. Now this comprised both options and futures. Options saw an ADT of INR 1,82,000 crores with a 124% growth while futures was at INR 27,000 crores with a growth of 33%. So both showing very healthy trends there together giving us a good business growth and momentum. Now this really came from an equally healthy growth in traded clients, the growth of 49% hitting for the first time 11 lakhs during the 9-month period. Now MCX also surpassed the last milestone of the all-time daily turnover and touched INR 5 lakh crores on the 13th of January 2025. And this also had the crude oil options clocking their highest turnover on the same day at INR 4.1 lakh crores. So behind all of this have been a healthy growth across our products and including the new products that have been launched in the last few months. Noteworthy would be to speak about the growth in gold options, the 1 kg option monthly contract. And here, the numbers cumulative from year-over-year, the growth has also been very positive. The cottonseed wash oil was launched, so was the crude oil and NG Mini in the last few months. Further, as far as the base metals future contract goes, the tender period has been reduced from 5 days to 3 days. All of this will lead to further simplification in the way the contracts can be managed. The modified gold option has had a really enthusiastic response and ADT has grown to more than INR 43,500 crores in the month of December 2024. And this is against INR 33,000 crores over the previous quarter. As we move forward, MCX will be continuing to look at launching new commodity derivative contracts as well as looking at innovations in our existing products and processes, mapping and studying the evolving needs of the industry. The exchange will look to address the needs of all sections of the commodity economy of India and continue to be the platform for robust price discovery and efficient risk management. MCX also observed the World Investor week. This was between the 14th and 20th of October 2024, organized by SEBI and the International Organization of Securities Commissions and this had over 150 awareness programs and several other activities that were related to commodities. MCX is also proud to have won the Digital Transformation and Resilience Award at the Red Hat APAC Innovation Awards 2024. And we also were named the leading commodity exchange by CPAI at their 10th international convention. The exchange will also have a live trading session on the 1st of February 2025 from 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. and this should facilitate market participants to take or calibrate their positions associated with any announcement that would be made in the union budget. I have joined MCX as MD and CEO, and I'm looking forward to working on all these opportunities for the growth of MCX as well as the commodities derivatives market of India. So I look forward to your continued support and to deliver and drive the potential of MCX in the days and months to come. So thank you very much. The leadership team of MCX, and I are available for any questions and answers following the session.

[Operator Instructions] The first question comes from the line of Amit Chandra from HDFC Securities.

Yes. So my first question is to Praveena, ma'am. So ma'am, it's been 3 months you have joined as the MD and CEO of MCX. So what has been the top 3 priorities in terms of the changes required in the exchange? And like what are the areas you want to focus to scale the exchange volumes and also to improve participation? And secondly, as we have -- as you all know, the technology transition is behind us and the focus has shifted to innovation of products and like launching new products. So you have explained where we have been in the journey, but very curious to know about where we are in terms of time lines, in terms of launching of the weekly options and the index weekly options contract. And what are the technological challenges and the regulatory challenges we might encounter in this journey because from hereon to take MCX to the next level we need some innovative products. And as we have seen -- as we've seen in other exchanges, index and weekly are the ones which are the most traded contracts. So we are curious to know about like your plans on this.

Thank you, Amit. Thanks for the question. So when I look at the top 3 priorities, observing and evaluating the priorities for MCX, the first is operational excellence. And when we say operational excellence, it's really our ability to interact with our members as well as clients in a way that makes trading at the exchange at the level of performance and best-in-class that it needs to be. It continues to involve and engage a high degree of focus on our technology. So operational excellence, including our continuous development going forward on technology will be a priority. The second is to really keep our hat on the compliance side very strong. As a market infrastructure, that's the expectation from the regulator and it will be a high focus area for MCX. And on the back of these two really gives us the ability and confidence to start the innovation. And there, we will be looking at new products and I spoke about that a little bit in the session. Looking at new products, looking at new contracts to our structures to our contracts, commodities that we currently do not have live contracts on. So all of these are areas that we will be continuing to explore. Now in terms of regulatory and other challenges, I think we do believe that on the back of a strong focus on, one and two, operational excellence and compliance, that we will be able to work through this and really drive this journey on our innovation.

Okay. And ma'am, in terms of launches, any time lines that you want to have in mind because in the earlier calls like even of the view that within a year of the transition of the platform, maybe we are ready in terms of technology for the new products. And as we see that, there is a huge concentration of [ little ] products on the options side, which is crude and natural gas, which are mostly cash-settled contracts. So we need more cash-settled contracts to like diversify and also index and weekly are the ones which will be mostly cash-settled and that can scale the volume to the like next level. And also in terms of what we're doing to improve the participation in institutional and to increase in the options side.

So in terms of where we stand on our internal readiness with respect to new products, we do not have constraints. We are, that way, ready with our infrastructure. Now as you rightly said, in addition to what we would look at from the deliverable contracts would be other contracts around indices, for example. So we are looking to revive METLDEX, which is our index that has not really had the kind of focus that it can have. So we believe there's opportunity there. We will also be looking to bring in options on the BULLDEX. So I think this is really the plan on the index side. And as far as time line goes, I think you will see all of this in the next few months.

The next question comes from the line of Devesh Agarwal from IIFL Securities.

Many congratulations to the entire team for another good quarter. Ma'am, just first thing, continuing with what Amit was asking in terms of new products. Is there an update on the series contract that we were kind of designing. And can you put a time line around that, the new series contracts?

So yes, we are continuing to explore all options in terms of growth, in terms of the requirement of the industry. At this stage, we really can't comment on a time line, but this is something that we continue to explore.

All right. And ma'am, if you see for equity -- if you see on the equity platforms, co-location is a big opportunity, which has been kind of driving volumes on the equity platforms. Now do you see a similar potential of colos can play in the commodities as well? Is there any thought process or aspiration out there?

Yes. I think that's a very good question. And as you know that this is not currently under regulatory-approved approach as far as colo is concerned for commodity derivatives. So it is something that we will continue to explore.

All right, ma'am, sure. And just one on the quarterly results, what I see is that the technology cost on a sequential basis has seen a decline despite TCS AMC starting from this quarter onwards. So just I wanted to have clarity on two things. What has been the payout to TCS in terms of AMC for this quarter? And secondly, despite this, what has led to this Q-o-Q decline and whether that is a sustainable number going forward?

I'll request Chandresh, our CFO, to take this.

So Devesh, the provision for TCS AMC is there in this number. However, due to the contractual terms, we cannot disclose that number. And the slight reduction in cost is due to some efforts, which we have taken to reduce some of the premium services which we were availing. So whether it will be sustainable, we are trying to keep it sustainable, but we'll have to wait and see. If there is a requirement to incur that cost, we may have to incur it in the coming months.

Sir, would you be able to quantify what was the savings in this premium services cost quarter-on-quarter?

Devesh, it's a very intermingled thing, multiple services are there. So to give a number would be difficult.

But we do expect that cost to be stable, Devesh.

The next question comes from the line of Prayesh Jain from Motilal Oswal.

Congratulations, team. And ma'am, just extending that question on the series contracts, as to where we are with respect to -- so that product, whether we have tested it completely and we are -- our readiness is there and when can we file it with the regulator? And also any clarity there because I think that is something, which the markets have been anticipating for quite some time, the crude series contracts. So anything where -- at what stage we are with respect to that product will be very helpful for us.

So Prayesh, when it comes to the series contract, as you call it, as I mentioned, our internal readiness on whatever products we want to launch is there. So there will be a small delta of work, but that's more of a procedural item. So from a readiness standpoint, there is no major bottleneck. However, this is something that we are continuing to explore, continuing to work on and we can update at the right time as and when something comes up.

Got that. Ma'am, secondly, on the base metal contracts, rightly that you mentioned that you would want to revive the METLDEX and then bring in the index options on both BULLDEX as well as METLDEX. But as base metals volumes have not kind of picked up the way we would have liked it to be, so what was the reason for that? And what could be the further driving factors for this that you could revive these volumes?

Yes. So we have had a reasonably good performance in base metals, especially when you look at contracts around copper and so on, and we believe that some actions might drive this further. So we are exploring rationalization around warehouses and certain actions that could help us to simplify the actual execution of the contract along with the deliverables, which will then be a little bit of a fillip to that business. But we do strongly believe in both the BULLDEX and the METLDEX as opportunities. Yes.

Okay. Ma'am, just a couple of questions. One will be on the regulation, right?

Prayesh, that when we look at our base metal numbers from last year, our numbers have practically doubled. So the growth is there. And of course, we will continue to focus on really driving the absolute volumes as well.

Okay. Just on the regulations and the interoperability of margins, which is not there between, say, in the stock exchanges and commodity exchanges. Any thoughts that the regulator might consider this and can provide some fillip? And my last question will be on SGF as to how do you see the Settlement Guarantee Fund from here on, the contribution that we will have to make?

The regulatory guideline on interop is really only for equity exchanges. So it does not include commodity derivatives at this stage. It's very difficult to comment on that and we are not a part of what works. And your second question was on SGF. Now the requirement for SGF is not as intense by way of contribution. However, we need to continue to review this based on need. And if we -- and given the growth that we are seeing and to support the growth on open interest, if we need to strengthen the process, then we will do so.

So ma'am, just a clarification there. Is it -- the way one we are one of the -- like, for example, NSE was given a target to reach a certain number for the derivative segment, is this something that comes as a direction from the regulator and then we contribute? And whether is there any such thing that you would voluntarily contribute or some ratio that we can link to the top line that will continue to go into SGF?

Those don't apply to the commodity derivatives exchange. I think it's a very different space and operates on different rules as you will be aware.

The next question comes from the line of [ Arpit Kapadia ] from [ IGE Family ].

All my questions have been answered.

The next question comes from the line of Shalini Gupta from East India Securities.

Could you please say what was the transaction fees during the quarter? And if possible, if you could break it up into options and futures?

So transaction charges for the quarter were around INR 300 crores. And just one sec. 72% of that is contributed by options and 28% is by futures.

And sir, if you could please give the corresponding figures in the second quarter of this year, Q2 FY -- financial year '25.

Q2 FY '25.

I mean -- yes.

So the previous quarter, transaction charges were INR 245 crores. 70% was contributed by options and 30% by futures. And just one correction. This -- in Q3, the transaction charges were INR 265 crores.

INR 265 crores, okay. Okay. Yes, sir. Otherwise, my questions were on the new product launches, which have been asked amply.

The next question comes from the line of Kunal from Fair Value Capital.

Am I audible?

Yes, Kunal. Please go ahead.

Okay. My first question was really and I wanted to ask about if you had any updates on electricity derivatives? And will your collaboration IEX on these?

So Kunal, it's a very good question. So when we look at our new products, electricity is one that is top of the radar for us, and we continue to work on it and explore that option. We believe it's a good opportunity also given the maturity of the spot exchange as you rightly mentioned. So this is something that's on the radar.

Okay. Any time line that we can expect? Or will it take it...

We are not in a position to share time lines.

Okay. Understood. And also in your PPT, you mentioned that another initiative is coal exchange. If you can explain that more, please.

Coal exchange, it's something that we have been working on. A lot depends on how the coal spot and so on plays out and a lot will depend on governmental actions. So maybe it's not a very high priority or it's not an expected item in the short term, but it's something that we are keeping our eyes on and being ready for it.

But is it the same thing that the Ministry of Coal was also referring to when they were referring to setting up a coal exchange? Or will it be a different thing?

It's the same thing.

Okay. And the third question was about natural gas. We have a large competitor in this product, IGX. My question was how does one exchange take away volume from another exchange? What sort of things have to go right for that to happen? And what do you need to protect against?

So Kunal, not to comment really on IGX business model or their numbers. But as far as we are aware, IGX is a spot exchange for gas and our focus is only on derivatives, trading of derivatives. So we are in a completely different space and we don't see -- yes.

The next question comes from the line of [ Akshay Patel ], C.D. Integrated Services.

Am I audible?

Yes, [ Akshay ]. Please go ahead.

Yes, yes. So my first question is that we have grown very significantly in the first 3 quarters of FY '25. So my question was on the front of the revenue growth -- sustainability of the revenue growth. So how sustainable is the revenue growth for MCX? And can we expect the same growth rate to continue in the next year and years to come?

So I think the growth of the last few months has been steady and it has been consistent. And we don't see a reason for the growth to not continue. So I think the numbers reflect the point that you're making and that's really our own view to the situation as well.

Okay. So we can expect the same growth rate in FY '26 as well. And ma'am, my second question is regarding the expansion plan on the trading volume of MCX. So how can we expand our plan in terms of trading volume and increase the market participants and overall revenue of exchange.

Thanks for that, Akshay. That's a wonderful question. I think we've spoken about the kind of products we are working on and the fact that we're going to continue to explore the kind of contracts we need as well as new commodity areas that we'd like to enter. But we are also, at the same time, looking to increase our participation. And we did talk about the full year number of clients traded -- who traded is at about 9 lakhs, and we see that number as a focus to increase. And they're also looking at bringing in participants of both FPIs well as hedges and commercial participants. So growing the breadth of participation in the exchange will also drive this growth. So both on products as well as participation. The third angle, of course, and I spoke about it earlier, is really the MCX good delivery, which we have both on bullion as well as on some of our metals, on lead and which we plan to expand further. So that's another third element, which really gives Indian refiners an opportunity to participate in the exchange, and we believe that's also important access of growth. So all of these together will really contribute to that growth that we are looking at.

Okay, ma'am. And last one follow-up question on that would be that our 65% of the revenue comes from just silver and gold contracts. So do we foresee any challenges or risk regarding that 2 products that hold 65% of our revenue?

I don't think 65% of our revenue is coming from bullion. But as I said, we will be looking at expanding our range of products and that will certainly lead to a situation where we will have more products coming in with growth numbers in place. Chandresh, you just want to talk about the current concentration?

So 65% is bullion contribution only in the futures. Whereas in the options, the natural gas and energy products are having higher contribution.

Okay, okay. And ma'am one last question. Do we have any planning to come into the high-frequency trading or algo trading or something like that?

So [ Akshay ], that's a permitted category and we do have participants who have algo trading with MCX, even as we speak.

The next question comes from the line of Ajox Frederick from Sundaram Mutual.

My question is on the new client addition. You mentioned in your opening remarks about 11 lakh traded clients, which used to be 9 lakhs. So what has driven that increase in growth during the year?

So increasing the traded client participation is an important objective for the exchange. And we have had a number of initiatives including awareness sessions, working closely with our members to increase the client trading participation and so on. So that has led to the increase in numbers that you're seeing here. And it's something we track every month, and we see a month-on-month growth in these numbers.

Okay, okay. And going forward also, you feel this traction will continue, right? That's what you're saying? Your steps are indicating that.

The interest in commodity derivatives trading will continue to grow. We continue to stay focused on these initiatives around creating awareness, so are our members. And I think we should see the results according to that.

The next question comes from the line of Chintan Sheth from Girik Capital.

And congratulations, ma'am, for the role. One question I had on the FPI participation. You mentioned that we are working towards increasing participation from both -- every strata of trading community. If you can throw some light on how has been the FPI participation overall transaction in the quarter, how you see this improving going forward?

Yes, I'm just going to request Rishi, our Chief Business Officer, to take this.

So we are seeing heightened interest from FPIs in our products. As of now, they're only allowed to trade in cash-settled contracts of crude oil and natural gas. We have around 140 FPIs on the platform and many are participating very actively. And it's heartening to know that they are actually building a lot of OI on the exchange. So for example, in crude oil, we have around 17% OI on the long side and 32% on the short side from FPIs. So that is something very healthy, and also in terms of natural gas with 17% on both sides. So overall, we think that their participation is overall growing month-on-month and we see this as a very strong segment going forward with more and more FPIs coming on board.

If you look at the crude contract of the last couple of months, starting from September, it has started to soften a little bit month-on-month. Any reason -- which participations are kind of leading to lower volumes or lower transaction in the crude contract?

It's not like that. If you look at it historically, the quarter 3 is always a soft quarter for -- especially for international reference contracts, given all the festival season, et cetera, both in India and globally. Having said that, this quarter has been better than the last quarter. So more or less, it has always been that trend that Q3 has been softer than Q2 every year.

Okay. And if you look at SGF contribution, we are now -- earlier it was an ad hoc contribution policy, which now we have revised it to every quarter we will be charging or provisioning the SGF contribution every quarter. Do we see the need for any tweaking in the rate or taking inter-fees, transaction fees, given the regulatory burden seems to be heightening in the derivatives side, both on equity and commodities?

So at this stage, I think our contribution is being well managed and under control and I think we addressed it earlier that we may need to review this. We will continue to review it. And if we need to contribute to further -- to support the kind of open interest growth that we see, then we will take action accordingly.

Sure. And then just bookkeeping question on how much cash we hold under the books as on date? And any thought process on how to utilize this the same?

So as on date -- as on 31st December, we have around INR 1,100 crores surplus cash. And the utilization will depend on the plans, business plans and how we want to invest in technology, new products.

The next question comes from the line of Parikshit Kabra from Pkeday.

So I'm actually struggling a little bit in terms -- as an investor to figuring out how to underwrite the growth of the company because, yes, on the one hand, you are uniquely positioned to tap into this growing market. But on the other hand, in terms of any form of operational guidance in terms of how are we adding more clients, what our target for the clients that we'll be adding over the year or the instruments, we're left a little bit in the dark. So number one request is can we start at least showing the number of active clients on a quarter-on-quarter basis in our presentation so that we can at least start tracking that number?

It is already -- if you can look at our presentation, we are already giving the active clients both in futures and options separately and also we are giving it at the consolidated level. We are giving quarterly as well as we are giving it on a yearly basis also.

Okay. I apologize then. I seem to have missed it. I thought I had gone through it in detail, but fair enough. And secondly, in terms of actually adding clients, you mentioned briefly just now that you're doing awareness campaigns. But is it possible to understand this more like what we were doing before? What are we doing now? Are we adding new avenues to increase awareness? Are we adding new features, not just products, but new features that enable certain type of clients to increase their trading volumes, so on and so forth?

So I think over the months, we have added the kind of products and contracts that are more amenable to a wider range of clients. So I think, in fact, last year -- or earlier this year, we have launched the Mini, the crude oil NG Mini. We also have our 1 gram Gold leaf. We have the Gold Guinea, the 8 grams. So there are products which are specifically suited to this purpose, and this is something we will continue to explore.

See, just to add to it. In fact, we have recently come out with even the monthly contracts like Gold we have done that one. So we are looking for both product variants and also we are looking for like one of the -- another initiative that we have taken in the recent past is like the branding -- empanelment of branding. So we are looking at how we can be able to add the value chains to the market, that is one side of it. And also, we are looking at doing like looking for opportunities and cementing on the variance part like Minis we have come out monthly contracts we have introduced and also looking for the new products. So there are various serious of actions have been taken up. One is to product enrichment and also looking for the new products and also looking for new avenues.

The next question comes from the line of [ Deepak Ajmera ] from [ ITE India Family Office ].

My question is also on the similar line. We are saying that we are -- we will be launching lots of new product and we will increase FPI participation, et cetera. But as there is no clear time line given by the management, but can you highlight what progress already we have made in that part, whether it is weekly option expiry, et cetera. What progress we have made and what is holding launching the same, et cetera, that will help us in understanding it more.

So we are not in a position to comment on any time lines at this stage. I think we did call out that we operationally have a certain level of readiness that can allow us to move fairly fast. Now a lot of these will be under regulatory purview. And we continue to explore various options that we will need to look to market based on the industry's requirement. And at the right time, we'll be able to communicate this back.

Yes. Similarly, for electricity derivatives, et cetera, you will be launching maybe a bit later or sooner. But to understand it more, what is holding these things? And what progress we have made from the last 2, 3 calls, which we have attended.

My comments are the same, [ Deepak ], from what I mentioned earlier. Nothing more specific to add for electricity. And I think we've discussed earlier on that it is high on our agenda. And we believe it's a very significant opportunity. So we will be working very -- in a very focused manner on that.

The next question comes from the line of Ashish Pareek from Emkay Investment Manager.

I just wanted to have a brief understanding as to how margins differ from, say, cash settlement versus physical settlement? And just a follow-up. In terms of margins, so which will be the most profitable, say, gold or bullion or something like that?

So margin doesn't differ per se from cash settlement or delivery settlement, it's only in the delivery period that you can face higher margins. That is because the chances of being marked for delivery are there. Having said that, each contract has different margins depending on their volatility and as we -- as you know, we all have the SPAN margining system. So this is that. Or if there is -- if you see heightened volatility, there can be additional margins over and above.

I'm sorry, margins, I mean, the revenue side for the company. So say, in terms of physical settlement, which would be the most profitable for a company.

Misunderstood the question.

Yes, sorry if you misunderstood your question. So naturally -- Chandresh, if you want to...

So see, margins, I think since we have a common system, it is not so easy to compute margins product-wise. But the contribution from maybe energy and bullion would be the highest.

The next question comes from the line of Nandini Agarwal from Globe Capital Markets.

I wanted to ask that we have talked a lot about increasing the participation in the exchange. But on the line of retail participation, I wanted to know your view on that since you've seen a tremendously increased interest by people in the age group of 20 and 35-plus for the F&O trading in the equity markets. What is your take apart from awareness sessions, and of course, the products that you have launched to increase participation in the retail segment?

So the 11 lakh number we're talking about when it comes to unique traded clients really reflects that growing interest from the retail segment. About 25% of our volumes -- 24% of really our turnover is also coming from mobile trading, which can reflect the retail segment as well. Now obviously, we don't know the age group of the segment or anything of that sort. But we do see this increasing interest, and we believe that this participation will continue to grow. And also, a number of our members who are large retail brokers will also contribute to this growth.

The next question comes from the line of Sanil from ICICI Securities.

Congratulations on a good set of numbers. So my question is more on the same lines of the client participation. So in your PPT, you give the traded clients data, right? So in this quarter, if I see on a sequential base, there has not been any increase in these clients, which has -- was increasing on a very exponential scale, if I look at the past two quarters. So any reason why this quarter there was not much growth? And if I may continue on this. If I look -- as you said, there are 11 lakhs unique participants. But now if I look at equities, there is around 96 lakhs we had participated in F&O in the last year. So how much do you think is the potential of the commodities market in this?

Yes. So we are seeing growth in the numbers of participants and traded clients. Now the numbers for equity will, of course, be much larger. So the commodities elevated numbers will be a subset of those numbers. But we do believe that there is potential for more retail participants to come into our numbers here. So for example, I think we are seeing more than a 50% kind of a growth happening if we look at this even quarter-on-quarter. Quarter over last year quarter, we are looking at nearly close to 50% kind of a growth. So I think that interest -- that increased interest will continue to be there.

Got it. So just if I may ask that from, let's say, the 90 lakhs in equity, what is the number you would assume, let's say, next 2, 3 years? Or from 11 lakhs, how much do you think that could grow in the next 2, 3 years? Or what would be your internal target if you can share?

Yes. So it will be difficult to sort of put a number in the air there. But I think if you look at our ADT versus equities, I think that growth will reflect in the kind of retail participation growth as well.

The next question comes from the line of Sanketh Godha from Avendus Spark.

So 2, 3 questions, one on the tax rate. So in the past, we guided that our tax rate will be around 22-odd percentage. And for the 9 months, that number seems to be lower than that. So is it fair to assume that the tax rate will be closer to the current levels what you are reporting? Or it will go -- it will be closer to 20-odd percentage?

Sanketh, the tax rate would be around this level.

Okay. So around 20%, 21% is the fair number to assume, sir?

25%.

Okay. Okay. I mean, in the current quarter, the tax rate came at 20.8%. So just wondering...

Tax rate, you check the stand-alone numbers.

Okay. Fair point, fair point. Perfect, sir. And the second question was is it fair to tell that your SGF cost will be closer to 7 percentage of transaction because that's the trend what we can see in last 3 quarters. So with the volume growth, your open interest keeps on going up and maybe if I link it to transaction income broadly at 7 percentage, that's the trend we believe it will continue, sir, for the SGF cost? Or you believe this number can taper down as the volumes will kick up in that sense?

So Sanketh, the number we keep monitoring that as per the requirement. And like ma'am explained earlier, we would like to keep the corpus healthy so that it meets the regulatory requirement also. And the volumes, the incremental open interest is all taken care of.

Okay, okay. Fair point. And sir, last one -- last two one. So see, the premium to notional has fallen in November, December and probably January seems to be on a similar trend. So is it fair to tell that monthly -- bimonthly becoming monthly in gold has contributed to that decline in premium? Or do you believe that it is more to do because with volume increase, people taking positions more in out of the money contracts and that premium to notional number is coming off. And as the volumes pick up, this trend will be downward only going ahead?

Are you looking at the premium to notional turnover?

Optional notional turnover. So that percentage for the quarter was...

Yes, yes. Just looking at that one. So for example, the quarter 1%, it was around 1.62%. Quarter 2, it was 1.69%. And quarter 3, it is 1.74%. So there is no significant change in this one. It is more or less around the...

No, sir, I was more referring to November, December and January, what you disclosed in your website. So October was insanely very good at 2.2%, but it fell to 1.6%, 1.54% and 1.57% for January till date. So I was referring from that perspective because you had a very healthy October. The numbers look optically better at 1.74, but November, December numbers are closer to below 1.6 percentage. So I was just coming from that perspective whether this trend will continue downwards or not.

Typically multiple factors impact your options-to-turnover ratio, okay, because one is the volatility factor. And I suppose when the markets are in a growth phase, it is very difficult to say that -- what kind of ratio it will continue because you are still in the growth phase. Still the stability takes place. It is very -- that the markets mature. It is not possible that we will be able to give a particular trend. But I'm saying that at least in the recent times, I think it is more like maybe if you take a particular month, maybe the impact could be because of 1 or 2 contracts, but the volatility also could have played an important role.

So if you -- Sanketh, if you see October, there was heightened volatility. Because of that, you are seeing that number. And it was an outlier of a month. Otherwise, if you correlate to the months of heightened volatility, you will see this ratio higher. Otherwise, as you all know, that December normally is a very stable and placid month. So accordingly, you have seen those numbers. So I do not -- I would -- I do not see that -- how could anyone predict these numbers going forward.

If I can add...

Yes, ma'am. Sorry.

Yes, yes. So I'm also just looking at the premium turnover for options. And the premium turnover is increasing because really the ADT is supporting that. And Q2 was about INR 3,264 crores and there's been 11% growth to INR 3,600 crores in Q3. So I think the two have to be seen hand in hand to really look at their impact.

Got it, ma'am. My only reason why I asked this question is that if volumes pick up, is a general observation at the exchange level that out-of-money contracts volumes increase and that naturally leads to a structural decline in the premium to notional because we have seen the same thing in equity market. So is it a fair assumption to make that if the growth continues at the current momentum level, out-of-money contracts contribution will increase and that will lead to automatic lower number premium to notional.

It could be [indiscernible] but we cannot say that, that is the only factor, okay, because suppose if growth is happening, that means if more strikes become more liquid, there is a possibility that, yes, out of the money contracts can become more liquid and it can get treated. But we cannot say that, that is the only factor.

So net-net, we cannot use this as a predictable trend to put it.

Got it, sir. And last question, if you can give the float income on margin money in the current quarter, that will be useful as a data keeping point. And maybe if you can tell that number for 9 months and for the quarter.

So that number bifurcation we cannot provide, Sanketh.

Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Praveena Rai for closing comments.

Thank you very much. I think we had some very, very good questions coming in. I hope clarity of really the results as well as where MCX stands today was made available to both the session, the interactions and the Q&A. Thank you very much for your time here and your very active participation. I also want to thank my colleagues in the room for being here and being available for this conversation. Thank you.

Thank you. On behalf of Multi Commodity Exchange of India Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.