Multiconsult ASA (MULTI) Q4 FY2025 Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, and welcome to this presentation for the fourth quarter and full year 2025 for Multiconsult. My name is Grethe Bergly. I am the CEO. And with me today, I also have our CFO, Ove Haupberg. Before we go into the details, just a short overview of who Multiconsult is. We are an engineering and architectural firm, with over 100 years history. Our primary operations are in Norway, but we also have a presence in Denmark, Sweden, U.K. and Poland. We have projects across 45 countries in Europe, Asia and Africa. Our business is divided into 3 segments: Multiconsult Norway, which comprises our engineering business in Norway; Architecture that comprises our 4 architect companies; and International, where you find our engineering subsidiary, Multiconsult Polska in Poland and our Swedish daughter Iterio. In the market, we operate in 4 business areas: Building & Properties, Mobility & Transportation, Energy & Industry and Water & Environment. Our project portfolio, we have clients roughly 50-50, private and public. We execute over 15,000 projects on an annual basis for 5,500 clients, and we are just above 400 employees. Over the last few years, we have delivered profitable growth based on a very robust business model with a diversified portfolio and strong professional environment that can assist our clients across all these business areas and geographies. Going into the figures, we delivered a stable operational results, with 3.9% organic growth for the quarter and 4% for the full year. The adjusted EBITA came in at NOK 9.2 million, representing an EBIT margin of 6.1%, and the adjustments are related to the Sotra project. The Architectural business has been particularly hard hit in this quarter, and this is largely due to a challenging market where the Building & Property market where investments have slowed down. The full year result is affected by lower utilization, acquisition-related expenses, costs related to improvement measures and the ongoing dispute on the Sotra project. Our ambition to strengthen the profit remains firm. It's worth mentioning that through 2025, we have made significant investments in IT and technology, investments that will provide up-to-date support and provide efficiency gains for the way of working and collaborating. Ove will go more into the details of the figures just after me. And the Board proposes NOK 5 per share as ordinary dividend. Looking at the market and sales, the order intake in the quarter was NOK 1.6 billion, and we leave the year with an order backlog of NOK 4.2 billion. The sales and new contracts represent a good mixture across all 4 business areas. In the fourth quarter, we also started several of the frame agreements that we have with Forsvarsbygg. And we have, as many of you know, also announced 2 new frame agreements in the quarter. The large project portfolio remains stable, maintaining good activity throughout 2026. There are also some very large projects awaiting to be awarded as well as a robust pipeline looking forward. The Building & Property market has remained challenging, both with respect to new projects, but we are also seeing that contracted projects are being delayed and postponed, and this is particularly challenging for our architectural business. We have a 6% growth on number of employees, mainly in Multiconsult Norway. We continue our share purchase program and participation remain high. And we are, of course, very pleased to have announced who is going to be our new CEO. And Karsten Warloe, he will take office on the 1st of June, and we are so looking forward to welcoming him. Another major milestone this quarter has been the completion of the ViaNova acquisition and integration activities are ongoing as planned in all 3 locations, Sandvika, Kristiansand and Trondheim. It's always great to see how the projects that we participate in win awards. And this is an important benchmark for us in the market. And in this quarter, we want to mention 3 awards to LINK Arkitektur and the 2 nomination of the A-Lab project, Ski Tarn av. It's not Ski Tower, which is easy to say. It's a fantastic building. The award to Gina Ringnes is also represents an excellence in our employees and is an important foundation for quality in the solutions that we can deliver to our clients. And then I hand you over to Ove, who will go a bit more in detail.

Thank you, Grethe. Good morning. Then we have a closer look at the Q4 and full year figures for 2025, and we start with the Q4 figures. The net operating revenue for the quarter ends at NOK 1.522 billion, that is an increase of 5.4% from the same quarter last year. Of this, the organic growth, 3.9% and the M&A activity on top of that is 1.4% ViaNova then from 1st of December and Lifetec in Q2. The calendar effect is positive 0.2% or NOK 2.9 million. And the organic revenue growth, excluding the calendar effect and the write-downs in relation to the Sotra Link project is 4.3%. The main drivers behind this growth, and you find this in the graph on the right, are a higher number of employees, 237 of which ViaNova provides 129 or 170 FTEs. We also have increased billing rates and the growth in employees are above the growth in number of FTEs, and this is caused by the inclusion of employees from ViaNova late in the quarter. The growth is offset by a lower billing ratio, and we still see a difference in billing ratio between the different segments, geographies and business areas. This quarter, we had cost of NOK 18 million reported as legal costs and write-downs on the Sotra Link project, adding up to a total of NOK 36.9 million for the full year. And these costs are then related to the preparation and conduct of the court trial then started September 22 last year and continued for 10 weeks. We also point out that the accounting risk for this project remains unchanged. Adjusted for the Sotra Link project, we confirm that the net project write-downs landed well below 1% of net operating revenues also for 2025, so in line with expectation. EBITA in Q4 amounted to NOK 74.9 million. That is a decrease of 23.6% since last year. And the margin for the quarter, 4.9% is down from 6.8% in the same quarter last year. The EBITA adjusted for Sotra Link see a reduction then from NOK 98 million to NOK 92.9 million. EBITA is impacted by increased employee benefit expenses caused by growth in number of employees, including increased manual labor from acquisitions and normal salary adjustments. We see a decreasing billing ratio, a decrease of 0.8 percentage points and other operating expenses. That is including acquisition-related expenses, and that is due diligence support from auditors and lawyers. We have improvement measures, and this is introducing new ways of working and strengthening our technology platform. We have a new common digital platform. We have a new project management system, and we are implementing a new HR system. We also have costs related to adapting the organization to the market and some consultancy support for optimizing processes and creating more efficient business support organization. We also, of course, have the effect of the legal expenses and write-downs to the Sotra Link, also seen on the right. And we also have commented in the previous quarters that the discontinuation of the temporary employers' contribution resulted in a reduced cost this year of NOK 5 million per quarter compared to the last 2 years. And as clearly stated in the Q2 presentation and repeated by Grethe now, we have strengthened our initiatives to restore momentum and deliver on our financial targets. Order intake in the quarter, NOK 1.636 billion and a strong order backlog of about NOK 4.2 billion. On the reporting profit for the period, NOK 38.7 million. That is a decrease from last year. But in this figure last year, we had a net finance income of NOK 21.4 million, and this was an income recognition associated with the reversal of earn-out provisions on the business combination in Sweden, VA-Resurs and Helm. Earnings per share, NOK 1.48. Then moving on to the full year figures. Net operating revenue, NOK 5.6 billion, increase of 5.1% from last year. Of this, the organic growth, 4% and the M&A effect on top of that is 1.1%. The net calendar effect of the year is positive by just NOK 2.6 million. And adjusted for onetime settlement with the client last year and the Sotra Link project this year, delivered an organic revenue growth of 4.9%, and this is illustrated also in the graph on right. The main drivers behind the growth were a higher number of employees, that is at 237 also for the year or 165 FTEs. We have increased billing rates, and this growth is partly offset by a lower billing ratio. But bear in mind that, the gap compared to last year is slightly lower this quarter compared to year-to-date figures in the last quarter. EBITA for the full year, NOK 394.8 million, a decrease from last year, margin 7% compared to 9.7% last year. And then adjusted a reduction of NOK 60 million or from 9.2% to 7.6%. And this is illustrated in the graph with the onetime settlement last year, NOK 31.2 million and the Sotra legal expenses and write-down this year, NOK 36.9 million. EBITA is impacted by increased employee benefit expenses, a decrease in billing ratio and other operating expenses shown in this graph on right, and also explained down on the Q4 numbers. Order intake for the year, close to NOK 6.1 billion. And reported profit, NOK 252.6 million decrease from last year. And on this full year figure as well, we have a net financial income. We have what commented on the last page from Sweden, VA-Resurs and Helm, but also a recognition of NOK 36 million associated with the acquisition of A-Lab that was in the figures last year. So last year, a total of NOK 57.4 million as financial income. Earnings per share, NOK 9.22 and as communicated, proposed dividend of NOK 5 per share, in line with financial targets. Then financial highlights, and we see this per quarter. And this quarter, fourth quarter is in dark blue. Starting on the top left that we see the growth in net operating revenue has increased by 5.4% since fourth quarter last year. And the rolling 12 months is also positive. We see that on the dark blue line. Top right illustrated that the change in billing ratio is down 0.8 percentage points from last year. And down right, you see the growth in the number of employees by 6%. And then in combination with other revenue effects, change in employee benefits and other operating expenses, we see the EBITA margin down left, 4.9%. Also now in this graph, we have illustrated the onetime effect per quarter in 2025 of the write-downs and legal costs on the Sotra projects. You see [ NOK 9.55 million ] and NOK 18 million there. And you also have from 2023, the onetime settlement on the client and from the share reinforcement program in 2023 is also illustrated. Okay. Then some news on this page, operational performance per segment. And we are now reduced from 4 segments to 3 segments and the first time this quarter. So starting with the segment Norway, and this is including the previous segments Oslo and Norway, and includes Multiconsult Norge, the 4 ViaNova companies, Sitepartner, Lifetec and Multiconsult U.K. Net operating revenue in the quarter, NOK 1.2 billion, that is an increase of 7.4% from last year. And adjusted for Sotra, we see a growth of 8.1%. And main drivers are here as well, increased capacity, 150 FTEs and improved billing rates. And this is then offset by a lower billing ratio, a reduction of 0.3 percentage points. But the underlying billing ratio has improved in most part of the business in line with the improvement measures. Operating expenses are NOK 1.75 billion, an increase of 8.4%. And you see the increase in employee benefit expenses, 8.5%. That is in line with ordinary salary adjustments and increase in number of employees. And this is, of course, including the effects of the acquired companies. Operating expenses increased by NOK 7.7 million in the quarter, driven by the mentioned improvement measures, higher IT costs and overall increase in cost. And EBITA, NOK 88 million, that is a margin of 7.3%. And adjusted then for the write-downs, we delivered margin of 8.5% or NOK 106 million. The ViaNova effect, inclusion from 1st of December has a small negative effect on EBITA of NOK 2 million for this quarter. This is also commented in the notes that you probably have seen already. Then moving to segment Architecture. Net operating revenue, NOK 194 million, and that is a decrease from last year of 3.1% and also a negative EBITA of NOK 12.5 million, also a reduction from last year. A small positive currency effect in this segment of NOK 2 million. So then a small comment as we usually do per company, LINK Norway. We are faced with weaker performance due to a more challenging market situation. We have a lower billing ratio. We have some project write-downs and cost of implementation improvement measures, adapting the organization to the market. Total capacity is the same as last year, but we had 4 temporary layoffs at end of Q4, and we have sent notice now for 12 temporary layoffs in the company. LINK Sweden, broadly the same situation as last quarter. That means that we are still are faced with weaker results due to the change or challenges in the project portfolio in Northern Sweden. This is causing significantly reduced billing ratios, but we have the ability to keep more favorable billing rates in the remaining portfolio and good performance still in the more demanding Stockholm market. LINK Denmark, the improvement in performance continues. We have improved billing ratios. We have increased number of employees and they have solid cost control. Also A-Lab faced a more demanding market situation, but they have a solid project portfolio, but the challenge is that we have delay in call-offs on the contracts. And this is causing a weaker billing ratio and pressure on billing rates and a reduction in number of employees compared to last year. And then finally, some few comments on international. Net operating revenue increased by 2.7%. We have positive currency effect of NOK 3.6 million, and the calendar effect is also positive by NOK 2.8 million. EBITA, NOK 10.2 million, NOK 3.9 million lower than last year, and the margin is reduced from 12.4% last year to 8.7% this year. Performance picking up in Multiconsult Polska, but compared to the same quarter last year, we have weaker results in both Polska and Iterio. Also, a small currency effect on EBITA of NOK 0.2 million. Then moving to, as you know, my favorite to the financial position and started to the left on cash flow. So cash flow, including IFRS 16 effect, positive by NOK 537 million. Moving on to the right, we have a negative change in working capital, NOK 286 million. This is explained by trade receivables reduction of NOK 266 million, and this is only due to timing of payment from the customers. We have now these payments booked in January and the risk in trade receivables is considered to be unchanged and still at a very low level. Then we have spent NOK 400 million in investments, that is fixed assets, NOK 78 million and then on M&A activity, that is ViaNova and Lifetec, NOK 309 million in combination. Then cash flow from financing is positive NOK 248 million. We have paid dividend to you as shareowners, NOK 277 million, some interest on loan and then effect of the share ownership program, and we have then increased our long-term debt by NOK 620 million to compensate by that. So then corrected for IFRS 16 effects, we have positive cash at the end of the year by NOK 37 million. And you see down right that the net interest-bearing debt has increased to NOK 777 million, but we are still within our financial targets. So the gearing rate is below in this. And we have then a policy saying that in these situations with M&A, we can go up to 3. So we are still way inside that. Last page for me, free cash flow. We illustrate in the dark blue column, the cash flow from operations, positive NOK 291 million. What we have used in investment activities in this quarter, excluding M&A, is NOK 22 million, so net positive NOK 268 million. And from the rolling 12 months, positive NOK 160 million. The difference from last years are related to the cutoff, or the change in working capital. Then Grethe, I hand it back to you.

Thank you, Ove. Looking at the market structure, when we look at gross revenue distribution in our 4 market segments, we see the same trend as previous quarters. And this is a development in line also with the market situation. Continuous high activity in Energy & Industry, stable in the other 3 business areas and the distribution between the business areas is fairly stable. Our strategy that we launched in November in 2023 still stands. We see that we are able to seek assisting our clients in the journey to developing and improving our environment across generations. And the sales in this period has supported this ambition. We have a leading position across several domains, and this is just an oversight on new projects and ongoing projects milestones that support the execution of the strategy. Looking a bit more in detail in some of the projects in this quarter. This is an industrial development. Framo is a global leader in pump technologies for the marine and offshore industries. They are set for a significant expansion of their factory facilities, 2 new halls being built, one to support the already existing production that they have, and another hall that will be adapted for production of components for the fishing and the aquaculture industries. Multiconsult and LINK are assisting Framo in all the phases of this project and with all disciplines. In parallel, we are also working on zoning plan for the whole industrial area. Looking at enabling the energy transition, we are seeing high activity still on the framework agreement that we have with Statkraft, supporting their priorities, both when it comes to increased capacity, planning and constructing the grid and not least strengthening robustness and preparedness in operations and system development. And here, we list 4 of the projects that we are involved with at the moment. We have also won an interesting job in Poland on an ongoing railway development Polska is providing investor supervision on this project aimed at improving passenger comfort and safety in the Warsaw and surrounding areas. The project is co-financed under the national recovery plan. Digitalization has a lot of interest, and a lot of discussions are ongoing on how it will affect the workplace in the short and the long run. Multiconsult's approach to this is to keep a keen eye on the development, preparedness to include new technology and the effect it may have on our business models. To ensure that we are prepared to provide our clients with solution that enhances their value and strengthen competitiveness. And I will now present some insight into the projects that we do in this area. In 2025, we have made major investments in digitalization. They support better data utilization, more efficient collaboration and improved project execution. A streamlined digital workflow for document handling now includes integrated quality control features, improving both quality and efficiency in project execution. With rising building costs, our clients demand for efficiency also increases. Digital automization are, therefore, an important strategic priority, ensuring that we remain at the forefront of technology. We are developing AI-based automation for detailed engineering or the HVAC in electrical components, and we are already using this in the project at new Rikshospitalet here in Oslo. And by use of advanced AI, we are about to digitalize 85 years of historical geotechnical data, enabling analysis, benchmarking and higher-value engineering insight. Multiconsult have the largest geotechnical data archive dating back to the 1940s. The data contained in these reports are extremely valuable, but has been spread approximately in approximately 30,000 documents from handwritten notes to scan PDFs and maps. This has made it difficult to locate, interpret and use this information in modern projects and software. We are now developing methods to leverage almost 100 years of data gathering, using advanced technology that enable easier access and more efficient utilization of data. We call it the GeoReader project, and it was initiated to meet the challenges that I mentioned in the previous picture. And we have created a tool where all historical geotechnical information is structured, geo referenced and easily acceptable. It has been a journey, but with the help of advanced artificial intelligence, we have succeeded in creating a solution where we now have an AI-driven platform that extract and structure geotechnical data from historical reports, resulting in automated data extraction, geo referencing and searchable archives. And we do this to enhance the value, of course, for our clients and for our shareholders. GeoReader makes data that was previously inaccessible immediately useful in our project. It provides stronger early-stage decision support, more efficient project deliveries and enhanced public safety, for example, through better identification of landslide hazard and challenging ground condition. In sum, we believe GeoReader and corresponding solutions will enhance our competitiveness. And we also see how this methodology can be addressed to open doors to new business models. Then finally, outlook. The overall outlook remains stable in terms of activity levels with continued uncertainty regarding future timing and investment decision. Defense, energy, industry and infrastructure remain key drivers. Lower interest rates may boost investments, but timing risk to political priorities, public budgets, power grid capacity and uncertain return on investments are expected to continue affecting the energy transition and electrification. Building and property market is expected to remain challenging. Defense and hospitals are positive exceptions. Competitive intensity is expected to remain demanding with pressure on margins and pricing sensitivity. A healthy pipeline and several framework agreements support stability going into 2026. And with that, I complete our presentation. Just a reminder here of the dates for the next event on our financial calendar, and we open up for questions.

Simen Mortensen from Carnegie. I have a few questions on my side. I'll take them one by one, if it's okay. You went through digitalization and AI. Clearly, some new products for the space. But historically, you have been charging by the hour. How does these 2 projects cooperate? And is there impact to the operation and business?

What we're seeing is on some of this, we believe we can do more of a shared Software-as-a-Service, Data-as-a-Service. We're looking at now more having fixed price for some of the things that we do. So in just the ones that we did on geotechnical, we believe there are a way of not being paid by the hour. We already actually do within that area, we already do quite a lot of fixed price products. So it's just a development of something that we have already.

Can you say something about the scope of this?

No, I can't. But we see it -- I think we see that we have a unique -- for a long time, data has been seen as gold, but data, if you can't extract it, if you can't use it, if you can't tell location where it is, it's actually not useful. And we have now developed a way where we can extract and go straight on the solutions for a lot of the projects also going into the future.

A few questions on the Q4 figures also. The order backlog is down 12% year-on-year. I think that warrants some comments from your side.

Yes. We are, of course, following this very closely. And what we have reported already that our sales in the scale of NOK 3 billion when it comes to the defense in Norway. This is a lot higher than we've had volume of frame agreements previously. So when we take an estimate of how would this -- how would this normally have been come as a call-off on a contract, we are quite comfortable that we are at the same level as we have been in the last 3 years.

When I look at the group's revenue growth and combining with the number of full-time employee and the billing ratio as well, it seems that the billing rates aren't actually that much up year-on-year, at least in NOK. But still the costs continue to price up a bit what you spoke about in Q3. How do you feel that trend is now or what?

I think Ove just mentioned it. You can take that one, Ove.

Yes. What is positive here is that the gap has shortened. So basically, with these improvement measures, you are getting closer. But you are right. That is still a challenge that we need to work with that quite hard also going forward to keep that balance in billing ratio, billing rates and the total costs. So that's absolutely the goal that we have to come back on deliver on 10% as we have stated clearly.

One division you mentioned is clearly architecture, which is in the red also, but you mentioned some layoffs here as well. At what level do you see this actually just going breakeven? How quickly can we see this division stop losing money?

Well, we should not make a clear prediction about the future. But I mean, in normal markets, we should go -- come back quite fast on that to not making -- losing money. We are making money in some of these markets, and we are more demanding in other markets. But what we do is adapting our organization to the market, of course, to make money.

Will we see that in 2026? Or is that too quick?

Well, that should be within the improvement program as a general comment.

The dividend, you haven't commented that much on that in the report, lower than historical payment ratios. You have a bit of that, but could you please give a bit of flavoring on what has been the balancing factor in decisions?

Yes. So basically, we are still -- we have NOK 9.22, so we are above 50%, which basically, so we are within the targets that we have set. So we think that we are predictable in that. And we also have what we did, the ViaNova purchase, which is a cost of NOK 10.84 I think, per share. So the balance in that is to keep a healthy portfolio and also have a healthy balance sheet going forward. So we can continue the investment and have still control and good shareholder value also going forward.

Is it a bit more that lower payout ratio is due to the debt situation? Is that how to understand it?

All this is the balance between what we have done in M&A and the balance sheet and the profits made for the year.

Martine Kverne from Nordea Markets. You talked about your cost program in the last quarter, and you said something about it in architecture at least. But can you say a little bit more like what and where and what kind of cost measures you are taking? And when do you expect to see the results of this going forward?

Yes. What we reported here was that in segment Norway, the underlying billing ratio has improved in most part of that business. So that is one clear thing. And we are working with that, and we have measures and we are continuing using that. We internally call them staying ahead, which is reported then per company in this, and we are tracking this quite closely. So basically, we are tracking. So we're coming back to 10% in total for the year. So that is both cost and it's an improvement in net income on that.

We are actually doing a thorough. There are lots of small -- we've had quite good cost discipline over a number of years now. So in some ways, it's harder costs that we're looking for now because we are seeing that IT costs, for instance, we can't influence the prices there, but we can influence the use of IT. So we're looking now, we're taking a sort of scanning through the whole organization on the licenses that we use on what -- how much we allow for internal development. We're looking at all the office spaces that we have. But of course, some of these costs, you don't get the effect of it until the lease contract actually is finished. But we know that when we leave 2026, we will have realized some of these cost cuts.

Yes, it's cuts on to a more efficient operating model in a sense.

And also on the framework agreements within defense, you experienced some delays there in the call-offs. Do you have any like more feeling about that going into 2026 and how it may affect the billing ratio?

Well, I mentioned now that we are seeing -- we are starting. But of course, some of the -- it's a very different phase on these projects. Some of them are just get going start. Some of them are more in the very early planning stages and then there's not a lot of volume. But we expect to see quite a high level of activity during 2026 on these projects.

And my last question on competition. Where do you see like in which markets are this competition the most intense? And is there any like new markets where you're experiencing more or less competition?

I think the property -- building and property market is by far the toughest. But it does vary also a little bit in the different geographies. But smaller projects is, of course, where we see intense competition at the moment. So the size, the more complex project, it's, I would say, roughly the same competition as we've seen in previous years.

Magnus Rasmussen from SEB. Just a quick question on the working capital. You said this was a bit transitory. It was soft working capital in Q4. It was also soft in Q3. So I think the full year working capital drain is something in the range of NOK 285 million. It's usually been roughly 0 plus/minus small figures. Can we expect a release in similar magnitude in 2026 back to where you were a year ago?

Yes, that is the goal. And this is about timing of invoicing and payment for our customers. So basically, this is -- do we get the payments before we close the quarter or not. Basically, that is the issue. So we are working hard with that to mitigate this gap. So -- but bear in mind, there's no increased risk in this. The payment was done early January instead of end of December.

And on the Sotra trial and case, when do you expect some kind of conclusion? And how likely is it that, that will be the final result and we can move on?

We wish we knew the answer to the last question. To the first one, they have said that they expect to give us something between February and March. So we're expecting at the end of this month, beginning of March. How the other part will react or how we will react, I think it's not fair to say at the moment.

And finally, on the Norway region, you delivered roughly flat EBITA year-on-year despite an NOK 18 million legal costs on Sotra. And it's quite a big increase underlying. Should we expect that to continue in the coming quarters? And can you give some more color on what's driven that increase?

Yes. Well, we mentioned the performance program and the underlying billing ratio that has increased in most of our subregions in that. And that is where we need to deliver more on the improvement measures. So we state that our ambition is to come back and deliver at the 10% level by end of the year. And this is the by far largest segment. So I think that you can reason out of that.

This is Herman Caspersen from ABG. Adjusted for the ViaNova acquisition, we saw negative underlying net recruitment in Q4. Are these the first signs of more selective cost cuts? And currently, how do you think about the recruitment in the first half of 2026?

Well, slowing down recruitment is a natural reaction when you are seeing a more demanding market. So yes, it's something that management has -- it's a purpose-built lack of building capacity. And we are -- however, we always recruit because we need to recruit and we still have areas where we need competence. So -- but we will not probably see the same growth in employees until we've seen that we've got our billing ratio up. As a reminder to this room, when we went from 3% margin in 2029 to 10% in 2020, we did it with the same number of employees. We didn't have to take anybody out, but we didn't need to recruit either in that period. So it's about sort of making sure you use the people you have for the work that you have in hand.

Perfect. And the second question is, could you just elaborate a bit more on the current business environment in Architecture and what is driving the softness?

Well, in Norway and Sweden, this has been a very slowdown in investments. And in Norway, at least you probably all read newspapers about how housing is virtually not -- is on the lowest level, I think, since the finance crisis. And that, of course, is a major driver for architecture. And we are experiencing that both in Sweden and in Norway at the moment. In Denmark, there's more activities, there's more investments.

And the final question is, you're now using AI on the Rikshospitalet project. What kind of benefits do you see from that compared to other large projects?

Well, at the moment, I think Geir is sitting here, he's the head of the project. We are seeing that it's no magic to use artificial intelligence. We are testing, but we are finding that at the moment, we don't see an efficiency in the way we're using it, but we're testing it because we need to be prepared. One day, we will find out the solution of how we do it more efficiently. But I think we're quite far away from extremely complex large projects being sold entirely by artificial intelligence when you come to detailed engineering.

Yes. I think we are looking at the clock, and I think we should wrap it up. It's been 45 minutes now. We have a couple of questions. We could deal with that later. So you could sum it up.

Okay. Thank you. Then I wish you all a very nice day, and we close it from Oslo.

Thank you.