Mutares SE & Co. KGaA (MUX) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Dear ladies and gentlemen, a warm welcome to the Preliminary Financials of the Fiscal Year 2024 and the Q1 2025 Earnings Call of Mutares SE. [Operator Instructions] This conference also will be recorded. In case of any questions, please reach out to us via [email protected]. Let me now turn the floor over to your host, Mark Friedrich.

Thank you, everyone, and welcome to this call today as we planned, but had to publish yesterday that we only can publish preliminary financial statements. And that is mainly due to what you read here again on the page. And what you read yesterday in the press release that we have more documentation requirements and more auditing work to be done, especially for one complex special situation that we experienced here over the last couple of months. And let me give you here a bit of more color what happened over the last couple of months, especially since this is due to one topic that you are all aware of, which is called Serneke where we experienced a situation where standard accounting frameworks meet a situation that is nonstandard. Like we experienced here with Serneke, what we had to discover after the acquisition in December and, therefore, had long discussions with our auditor and also long discussions internally how to reflect this properly in our financial statements and consolidated financial statements. And we demonstrated over the last couple of months that we had no control over Serneke and, therefore, do not consolidate Serneke in our group financial statements. The auditor obviously has to really look into this in very details and also consult internally. And finally also came to the conclusion that our assessment is right, that we had no control and, therefore, it's appropriate to not consolidate Serneke in our group financial statements. And what you saw, what we published here yesterday reflects the current picture that is from also the auditor's perspective as of today, the right one and, therefore, we also felt comfortable in order to publish this with the current standards. And you saw that we also already yesterday announced that we want to put forward the publication of Q1 and put this forward to this morning because we wanted to demonstrate here solid progress like we also explained on the 1st of October, where we highlighted pretty much the way forward. Back in October, we look forward until the end of the year, Johannes will talk about this in more detail. I would talk about this when talking about Q1 in terms of holding figures. But we wanted to demonstrate here and show -- clearly show that the figures are going in the right direction and that we move the group in the right direction as we outlined on the 1st of October. Looking again back, what are the next steps? So you hear us today talking about preliminary financials for '24 and the Q1 financials '25, which we consider final. And we have agreed with our auditor that we have kind of an agreed time plan to publish our then audit the financial statements and consolidated financial statements for '24 on the 20th of May. And we agreed this morning that the Annual General Shareholder Meeting can be held on the 2nd of July and the calendar will be adjusted accordingly. And with this, we move on to the agenda, and I hand over to Johannes.

Thanks so much, Mark. And also from my side, a warm welcome to this earnings call here on the 29th of April. So I will guide you quickly back flash and then the company and business model reminder, key highlights, before I hand back to Mark for the preliminary financials '24 and the Q1 '25. So as said, a little back flash. On October, that was the last time we heard each other in that kind of forum. And we're also considering for this year that maybe closer to the summer and closer to Christmas, maybe we will have another informal call where we give a business update. But in October, that was the last time we met in this forum. And what have we promised in October is, firstly, we continue the growth with larger acquisitions, also in the non-auto segment, which we did with Magirus, which we did with, for example, Buderus Edelstahl. Both acquisitions are running quite nicely. We just passed the 100 days roughly after acquisition, and they are developing as expected or even slightly above expectation, for example, for Buderus Edelstahl, where we also benefit significantly from the defense hype. Secondly, we continue to grow profitable, which you see as we have achieved our guidance on the holding level on '24. And as you see also, it continues in Q1 2025. Thirdly, stabilize and improve the strategic performance of the Automotive & Mobility segment. I'll come to that later and give you a little bit of insight on the war story as well, where I think in the current circumstance, it was one of our main exposures is in auto. And obviously, the circumstances are not the brightest one at the moment, but we managed to stabilize that, even improve it. And we are in a good position -- in a very good position to participate now differently also in the market. And last but not least, initiation of and delivery of sell-side transactions, which we have done with Steyr and which we have also done in Q1 with Alcura, and there will be much more in Q2, where we are really, really on the final line at the moment with several transactions. Last but not least, Q1 confirms what we have promised also in October 2024. We continue the path. We continue the journey here as well. And maybe an insight from not the CFO of the business, but the guy sharing the office with them. I think what happened in the last weeks, also together with the auditors and with every stakeholder involved, we try to build up the complexity. This was a great team spirit, a team spirit of being world champion. And with no hierarchies, we just try to deliver and this was a great spirit. And I'm very happy that we could achieve the numbers of '24, and I'm very happy that we already closed the Q1 2025 with very successful results here as well. Reminding you quickly on the business model and our targets. So we are operating more globally every day more and more. So we have opened Chicago, we have opened Shanghai, we have opened Mumbai. And we also see assets in our buy-side pipeline and also in the buildup of our portfolio where we really have a global footprint, where we really operate with the different offices. We run currently, for example, a project where almost every continent is involved. We talk about 35 sites, which the asset has. So our global footprint really pays off. We are in 4 segments where Automotive is still the largest one. I'll come to that later on and give you a little bit more insight into that. But surely, we have risks, but we also have every day a chance in that portfolio due to the great diversification. Target company size, we still speak about EUR 100 million to EUR 750 million. Personally, I would believe our sweet spot is somewhere between EUR 200 million and EUR 400 million, EUR 500 million now. And this is also what we currently look into the pipeline more and more. Best example is Buderus and Magirus, for example, who are exactly in that range. And last but not least, I think we have our turnaround specialists. We have our turnaround heroes flying around from Monday to Friday, trying to make the companies better and especially in critical situation, but also in current situations like we have in our portfolios where there is, for example, defense involved, we need them. And they are the greatest assets we have, and it's very nice to see also the development of this over the years. What we aim for is still the same. So we acquire companies. We acquire loss-making s***** businesses, which needs operational improvement. And we restructure them, we optimize them. At the end of the day, we sell them. And the main driver of success in my personal view is the first stage, the realignment stage together with the acquisition stage. We need to have a proper plan. We need to make a good acquisition. We need to save the money on the buy-side part of it. And then the first 100, 150 days are important to really change the culture, change the mentality and pull the right strengths in order to flip around the company as quick as possible, optimize it later on and then prepare it properly for the exit, which we have done at the end of last year, also beginning of this year. We are currently out in the market with more than 10 processes where in Q2, we will already see a good portion of that materializing into a signing and then the second part in the second half of the year. So with a holding period of 5 years, when we started the growth, this is exactly the year of harvesting, and I'm super optimistic. We have started with Steyr. We have continued with Alcura, and I'll give you further insights in a few seconds there as well. Looking at our portfolio, we have the 4 segments, as I said, Automobility, and let me spare a few minutes here on this one. The challenge of Automobility is the change, more or less the daily change. If it comes to tariffs, if it comes to availability of parts, if it comes to strategic changes of the OEMs, when it comes to electrical vehicles, EV or ICE vehicles. So we are constantly in a changing mode. The industry is not settled, it's not down. The industry is just simply changing day-to-day. And the strategy we started a couple of years back where we said we want to consolidate, we want to have the large groups, we want to have the plastic group and the metal group really, really, really paid off. Very simple example. I think the size of the business helped us to really have another word, really have the right ears and the right people we talk to at our customer base. So with Amaneos, I was personally involved. We had a company, order book is full. We received a lot of orders, but the call-off didn't come. The call-off was just 30%, 40%, 50% down compared to what we have planned, compared where the investments were made for and compared to what we were awarded. Now this is a discussion you have to hold with the OEMs. And if you are a EUR 60 million, EUR 70 million, EUR 80 million, EUR 90 million business, the power of negotiation is very little. With our large groups, with us being Mutares having close to a EUR 3 billion exposure in the Automotive, we get to listen. They have to listen to us, and we listen to them. And at the end, we find a really good solution. So that the Amaneos Group where this company was in, is now in a very good shape -- is in a very good shape, a very good status to accommodate what is expected from Amaneos in the future. We are one of the leading plastic injection molding business, interior and exterior, and this is what we want to be, always wanted to be, and we wanted to be one of the significant player in this industry, in this specific market. And I think we are there yet. We need to build it up. We need to harmonize it. We need to stabilize it. And then this is the right asset also for the years to come in a divestment situation. On the Engineering & Technology side, as I said before, there is always a risk in a portfolio, but it's due to the diversification, there's also a chance, right? So we were very frightening looking yesterday to Spain and Portugal with the shutdown. We have Efacec, the largest manufacturer in Spain and Portugal for transformers. So there is a chance. There is a chance every time. Steyr, I recall when we acquired Steyr, we had long and intense discussions internally in the Board, but also with the Supervisory Board. Is it too small? Do we really want to go into defense? Is that the right thing? Boy, this was the right decision to do, and I'm very happy that we have it. So in general, the Engineering & Technology segment is one which is going quite well on the project business side. We are very happy with the early developments of Buderus and Magirus. And obviously, everything around energy, everything around defense, everything around this is, at the moment, quite shiny and quite good. Goods & Services. There, we have a portfolio which is kind of mature over the other ones. So for example, the top 3, you see Palmia, Conexus and Terranor. We hold them since a certain period of time. We have done the turnaround. We have done the optimization. Especially also for Terranor, we have buy and build. And those are all candidates for an exit. They are ready. We have done our bid. We have done the 80%. The operational team have done a great job there. And those companies are highly profitable. Order books are full. So there is a good chance that also those will be part of the exits in the next months to come. And then we have Retail & Food, where we carefully look. On the development, we have divested FASANA and Temakinho in quarter 1. We have acquired Natura, a very cosmetic and drug chain in Poland. The start looks very, very promising, even better than we thought at acquisition. Our team, I think, is doing a wonderful job there, and we are very optimistic when it comes to Natura. On the other side, we are carefully looking at Retail & Food segment. We have started that segment not long ago, and we will evaluate if this is the right industry for us to bring forward. Obviously, as you can imagine, retail is currently super, super challenging and the customer on the B2C spend is quite careful to spend money. So we're carefully looking there. We have with Keeeper a nice performing asset there. Gläserne Molkerei is doing okay, but the really retail part such as Prénatal and Lapeyre is something we need to carefully watch, and we do carefully watch. So far, a little bit the insight on the portfolio to give you a first glance. Let me share with you the key highlights of 2024 and the key highlights of quarter 1. So in 2024, we have made 13 acquisitions. And I want to stress out here that there were a lot of bolt-on acquisitions for candidates which we want to divest. So for example, we have there the bolt-on acquisitions also for Terranor, for example. And we have strengthened the Automotive Groups with KmB, with PRINZ, with H. We have strengthened the Automotive groups in order to finalize our buildup of these 2 large giants, FerrAl United and Amaneos to be a real, real partner for the OEMs. On the sell side, we have divested Frigoscandia, which was the largest exit last year to Dachser, cooling logistics company, faster turnaround than expected, a great effort by the CEO, by Peter and his team at that point in time. And also on the sell side, we were quite successful. Geographically, I think and important to understand there, we want to be there in countries where others are leaving. And China and the U.S. at the moment are those countries. So it was absolutely the right decision. In China, we have made the first deal '24 with Cikautxo, and there are more up there in the pipeline because companies are leaving China now due to fear, due to geopolitical situation, et cetera. Same happens for the U.S. So we are very optimistic that our newly formed office in Chicago with Fabio leading that is very successful. And we see also the first deal to come. We are in exclusivity for the first deal in the U.S. to be made. So 2024, overall, a successful year on the buy side to strengthen the portfolio. First exits out of the growth case 5 years ago and a lot more to come in 2025, which leads me to the quarter 1 in 2025. What have we done? Seven acquisitions, Magirus and Buderus Edelstahl at the top, Nervión in Spain, very interesting industrial service business. Logistics business, 2 in the Nordics after a super successful exit of Frigoscandia before we have exited BEXity in Austria. I believe logistics is one of our rockstar industries. And with VR-Logistics in Finland and with GDL in Sweden, I think we have 2 good assets. We just have conducted the 50 days meeting for the Swedish business GDL, which looks very, very promising. Also on the sell side, we have divested the majority portion of Steyr very successfully. And we have divested a huge part of Alcura, which was always the strategy. When we acquired Alcura October last year and signed the deal, closed it out in November, we already wanted to split the service, the care business from the equipment business. And that is what we finally did. Revenue-wise, we kind of split away 30% of the revenue, but you can imagine multiples in medical care business are different than in, let's say, the automotive spot. So we received a very attractive multiple. The deal will be closed in May, and this is one of -- to be fair, one of the larger exits in the last 2 to 3 years despite the fact that the revenue is very low. And then the listing and the sell-down of Steyr Motors, where we had -- where we listed it with EUR 70 million of market cap, at the moment, the share price has tripled. There will be an annual meeting, I think, on the 7th or the 8th of May, dividend of EUR 0.55 per share is announced. So overall, from the thinking we had when we acquired it from Thales and the discussions we had to what is it now? I think this is one of the most amazing stories of the last past years since we are here. And then last but not least, geographical extension, India, largest country in the world. We opened our Mumbai office. We are very, very close to make the first deal. I've physically been in India. Potentially, I need to go there next week as well to do the final shot there. And then we also have the first deal done in India, where I think there's also a great market for the future. And looking forward, I also believe that other countries in Asia, predominantly Japan and South Korea are interesting markets for us. And with that, I will hand over to Mark, and then we will see each other for the outlook.

Thanks, Johannes. So starting with the preliminary financials '24. And when talking about the portfolio companies, I will combine it a bit with the development of Q1. Johannes anyway touched a lot of the developments that we have seen in the segments. When looking at the '24 financials, you see that we again have the increase in group revenues to EUR 5.3 billion. And on the other hand, you heard that the revenue is not at all a very good indicator for value. We heard about Steyr. Steyr is quite small. There are other examples, in terms of revenue quite small. And we have other examples in the group where the revenue is actually fairly low and small in terms of the size here of the whole group, but the value that we see in this company and the market sees in this company is fairly high. And therefore, group revenues, it's important for us because we need to talk about it and we have consolidated financial statements. But our perception and analysis of the attention of market participants towards the indicators that we present here is clearly towards net income of the holding. And therefore, this is the key KPI for us and that we focus on and also focus on in terms of the guidance. When looking again back to the group, we see EUR 5.3 million. You see on the right side, we published it in the press release that we give a guidance for group revenues of EUR 6.5 billion up to EUR 7.5 billion. And when talking about Q1, I will deep dive here how we have derived the number. When looking at the adjusted EBITDA and you see the big setback compared to '23, it's important to understand that every one, every individual acquisition that we did that you saw on the pages before in '24 was contributing negatively to the adjusted EBITDA due to our business model. In combination with the acquisitions that we did in the second half of '23, especially big ones like I said, there was some kind of expectation that the adjusted EBITDA experienced a setback in comparison to '23. We heard about the Automotive segment. You will see what happened here in Q4. And when looking then at the Mutares Holding, we reached almost EUR 110 million of revenues with our existing portfolio. Net result is in the range of our communication. We reached finally EUR 108.3 million. And main contributors were clearly the exit of Frigoscandia with more than EUR 50 million and the exit or revaluation of Steyr, which proved to be right with also more than EUR 50 million. Looking at the segments and here, it pops up immediately that Q4 in the Automotive & Mobility segment was really bad, and it was really bad. We had a lot of companies that had a reduction in call-offs. There were some kind of cautious in the OEMs towards year-end where they wanted to reduce the number of call-offs that we had them from our portfolio companies and in combination with the add-on acquisitions and platform investments that we did in the segment, we saw that there's a material setback in Q4. Looking at the other segment, it was more or less normal when looking at Engineering & Technology, where we all the time said that it's supposed to be a stable one. And also Goods & Services is supposed to be a stable one, a good one, especially when looking at Engineering & Technology. This is clearly driven by the big acquisitions that we did here in the past, and we see here some good developments going forward. I will touch this when talking about the individual segments. And then looking at Retail & Food, we already heard kind of a reassessment on our end necessary here if we want to keep this separate and what we want to do here. But clearly also here over the quarters, some kind of stable loss-making in an adjusted EBITDA, but I will deep dive here a bit once we reach the page for this. Looking at the Automotive & Mobility, strong headwinds on sales due to the global drop-off here in call-offs from OEMs. There is, from our end, a clear focus on adaptation of our footprint and capacity. And that is also what the OEMs and customers expect from us that we are part of the solution to reduce overcapacity in the market. And on the other hand, like Johannes said, we clearly consider M&A as a solution in this segment. We want to add to the existing platforms valuable assets, not necessarily we want to add kind of sites where production capacity, we rather want to add valuable assets. And this is clearly a task for the whole team here in this segment to fill the existing capacity to be a solution provider hand-in-hand with the OEMs and for the OEMs. Engineering & Technology, something where we saw quite a good development over the year in Guascor Energy, NEM Energy. It's already in the name. They are operating in the energy infrastructure business. And also at Steyr Motors, I have talked about it quite a lot now. But when looking again here at the segment where we talk about especially the companies that are operating in the energy infrastructure business, namely it's NEM, Guascor Energy, but also Sofinter and we heard about Efacec, where we see clearly a really good development, especially when looking at Efacec, when looking at Q1, we see that the path forward looks really good. And on the other hand, we have one bigger construction entity in the group here, it's Donges, where we want to ramp up the revenue by almost 50%, and it looks really okay in Q1. We see that profitability picks up, that revenue picks up, it clearly goes in the right direction. On the other hand, the construction business at Byldis is struggling. We have a lot to do here. We are in final phases when it comes towards and pretty much already look forward into '26 to really fill capacity here and are confident that the market overall -- the construction market overall in Europe is picking up after the substantial decreases in interest rates that we have seen over the last couple of quarters. The Goods & Services segment is, over the last years, a positive adjusted EBITDA positive one. And let me start with one thing that also pops into the eyes right away is a revenue figure. And that's right. It has been checked a couple of times. And the coincidence is that it is exactly the same as last year. And you see that there is not too much movement in the segment. We added Alcura at the end of the year and Alterga at the end of the year, divested Asteri. But besides the rest, Palmia is still in there, Conexus and they all make good progress. They all make good progress. And we are here also quite confident that we will see some nice exits, especially out of this segment. You will see it once we come to the life cycle for Q1, also, which reflects exactly what Johannes was talking about. And here on the right side, we wanted to show that we have here also besides Engineering & Technology, also in this segment, some nice organic growth in 2024, and that continued also in '25 for a couple of these assets. On the opposite side, we have Stuart in here and already during the acquisition phase, we knew that we will lose one major customer and, therefore, the company will experience a setback in revenues and that we pretty much have to make sure by cost initiatives and also by business development initiatives to counteract here. And this is what is happening. It's not going fast because this is kind of a longer way, but pretty much according to plan as we acquired the company. Last segment, Retail & Food, we have heard about it from Johannes, and let me just highlight you what we did at Lapeyre. At Lapeyre, we focused a lot last year on adaptation of the organization to the cost structure. And the team has done a tremendous job by reducing the cost structure by more than EUR 50 million. On the other hand, they're also already focused on sales initiatives. But this is a mind change, and that takes most of the time, unfortunately, a bit longer. But there's a lot of focus on -- in the team on sales initiatives and execution of sales initiatives in the market and the CEO is on site, in the shops, showing to the teams how to sell. The team has derived quite transparently where we lose customer in the different steps of interaction and addresses exactly the touch points where we -- that we have with our customer in order to increase, obviously, the turnover rate. And we are quite confident that throughout the year, this will pick up. We have not seen this in Q1. So far, they are according to budget currently, but we really look forward to the rest of the year and pretty much have budgeted here for a pickup in sales throughout the year. All right. This was the video of preliminary financials '24. Looking at Q1 and starting here with the overview. And here, I want to explain how we come up with the guidance on revenue in the group that you see here of EUR 6.5 billion to EUR 7.5 billion before going back to what we have achieved. We sum up all the budgets that we have of our existing portfolio companies by the end of the year. We make some assumption for the exit timing of the processes that we have initiated and then pretty much eliminate what comes after the exit. We have made some assumptions on the buy side and then end up with the range that you see here. By nature, there are some influence factors that we do not have our under control, right? That's why we have come up here with such a range. And when looking at Q1, where we have not the full year already in like Buderus says 1 month missing and so on. And still, we achieved already EUR 1.5 billion in the first quarter x4 brings us slightly above EUR 6 billion already. So we are close to our range, and we believe based on what we have calculated that we will reach the range that you see here, and that is what we published also in the press release yesterday. EBITDA in Q1 is highly positive, almost EUR 400 million. And that is mainly due to the number of valuable transactions that Johannes mentioned in his presentation that we added to the group. And that is clearly what we also want to do going forward. And that's what we said on the 4th of October, we want to do the right transaction for the right price, and there's a lot of focus on this. And all the transactions that we did besides Serneke in the last 9 months, they are all okay. No bad surprises. And therefore, we are quite confident that we are on a good way here. Adjusted EBITDA, by nature, since we see it in the cycle by nature of the number of acquisitions that we did, this normally leads to clearly a setback in the adjusted EBITDA. And therefore, it's negative. I'm not too worried about it. Then looking at Mutares Holding figures. So revenue, for the first time that I can remember, decreases compared to last year. And I'm still -- again, here not worried at all, can happen on a quarter-by-quarter basis. And it's okay. So we still believe that we will be in the range in terms of revenue, EUR 100 million to EUR 120 million. Let's see what -- how this is going forward. And it's also, again, a combination with what kind of acquisitions do we do when throughout the year. So far, we are okay with this. Looking at the net income of the holding. We have reached almost EUR 30 million, and that number includes EUR 23 million contribution of exits of shares in Steyr Motors. And when you read the press release, you might have noticed that we have divested part of it in Q1 and also a part of it in Q2. And we can expect another contribution from this divestment that we have communicated and is executed of Steyr shares of about EUR 30 million -- again EUR 30 million in Q2. So we are on a very good way in terms of net income of the holding with already what we delivered until now. And you heard from Johannes that we want to go for more exits in Q2. Looking at the guidance for net income '25 and how have we derived this. So we have made an assumption about the long list of exit processes that we have initiated and have made an assumption about what we can expect in terms of cash flow. So that's why you see here more than EUR 200 million cash proceeds. And what we have on balance at acquisition costs, therefore, we generate this in cash, but it's not in income. And what is the difference is what you see here, EUR 130 million to EUR 160 million of net result of the holding based on really decent number of exits that we expect and that includes also the partial exit of Alcura, which is actually in the end, the dividend because we still have something. But overall, we say we want to reach EUR 130 million to EUR 160 million net result, and we believe that we are already here on a very good way. And with this, jumping to the next slide to the different segments again. And also here, you see that Automotive & Mobility in Q1 is quite positive. There's a positive effect from negotiations in one of the bigger groups where we agreed with the customer on certain contribution, and that's why you see that it's substantially positive here. Most likely, this will not continue like this in the rest of the quarters. We focus, like I said, a lot on adaptation of capacity. In Engineering & Technology, we have added here the 2 big new entities, Magirus and Buderus. By nature, they contribute then also due to their size, substantially negative here to the adjusted EBITDA. On the other hand, revenue jumps pretty much compared to Q1 '24, almost doubled, but it sounds what you see here. On the other hand, Efacec, like mentioned here on the right side, has shown based on Q1 that they were able to really ramp up capacity, really ramp up the output and have reached a positive EBITDA in Q1. Goods & Services, you see a slight setback that is mainly due to what I explained in terms of Stuart, where we have, as planned, the reduction in revenues and, therefore, profitability. On the other hand, the other entities, especially Conexus and Terranor, continue their positive way that we already saw in '24 also in the first quarter. So it's not -- it could not compensate what we have here as a setback. But like Johannes said, we pretty much focus on a divestment here. And on the other hand, we have a couple of things to do in the entities that we keep. Retail & Food, it is still a challenging situation. You heard it from Johannes, don't want to explain it a bit more than this. Market environment remains challenging, and we need to kind of think about what we want to do here. In the end, it's minus EUR 20 million, so more than double compared to last year. Overall, you see the EUR 1.5 billion of group revenues and adjusted EBITDA of minus EUR 30 million, which is okay, especially when looking at this picture. And here, the life cycle that you saw on one of the pages from Johannes, you see it on the left, acquisition first phase where we only have one entity in there that's supposed to be closed in Q2. And then after acquisition, our realignment starts. And currently, we have 17 entities in there. You see it in the revenue, there's a big jump compared to Q1 in the year, and there's a big drop in adjusted EBITDA on the other hand, which is normal because that's our business model. And on the other hand, you see that in the other 2 life cycle stages, optimization and harvesting, we see a very sound development in terms of what we see in revenue. We have less entities here in optimization. And on the other hand, we have pushed to harvesting a lot out of optimization. And this should give you a good indication what we have in mind when we talk about exits in the course of '25. And with this, I hand over back to Johannes for the final words.

Thank you so much, Mark. I would like to give you a short outlook investment summary. So I think -- and I would like to limit it to 5 points. Number one, I think with us, everybody has the chance to be an entrepreneur, an entrepreneur owning more than 30 companies and to optimize your chances and to mitigate your risks. This is what we have in the portfolio. This is what we see day by day on the buy side. This is what we see day by day on the sell side when I speak to my investment bankers, when I speak to our operational people, but also when we speak among the Board members and the Supervisory Board. So Mutares as an investment, we, as an investment case, we have a chance and a risk every day. And as chances increases, the risks will be mitigated. And this is a unique situation, I think you have in the market. We focus on growth. We focus on growth towards the EUR 10 billion, the EUR 200 million you have heard a lot of times from us. We stick to that. We stick to that, we believe in it and it will happen. Because I believe if you don't grow, you step back. You need to grow. You need to grow in business, you need to grow in your personal life, you need to grow in your personal development. Being a father, I need to see the child growing. It's one you need to grow, and we want to grow and we will grow. Successful track record, we delivered. We delivered Steyr, we delivered Alcura. We will deliver in Q2. We have on the buy side, 7 transactions already in Q1. So we will continue to deliver buy side and sell side. The DNA of this company will not change. We have announced an attractive dividend strategy with a minimum dividend of EUR 2 per share. A matter of fact that we have not taken that back. A matter of fact, we have not adopted. A matter of fact, we have not communicated anything around this. The communication and the guidance of the minimum EUR 2 per share remains. And consequently, we as Mutares are a very attractive dividend strategy player. And at the end of the day, you get what you see. You get what you see since a long, long time. This is a family owner-managed business. We win together, and we cheer together. We have colleagues who had much more trouble than we ever can imagine, fought through cancer, made a marathon recently and we cheer for them. We stand together. This is a family, and we fight together, and I'm so proud of the guys who fought the fight of their lives rather than for the fight of the numbers. And at the end of the day, we are successful and the team spirit and this staying together brings us to the growth, brings us to that great track record, which will continue, brings us to the attractive dividend and brings us every day an opportunity to win. And at the end, it's all about winning. And I'm very proud that I'm part of this, and I'm very proud that I could lead a main portion of this squad. And with that, I would like to conclude the call. We hear latest each other on our Annual Meeting on the 2nd of July. Thank you for joining. Thank you for listening, and we'll win together. Thanks a lot. Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.