Muthoot Capital Services Limited (511766) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

The management of Muthoot Capital. Without much further ado, I shall hand over to Vinod sir to take us through the financials, and then Madhu sir who will give us a broader business outlook. Over to you, sir.

Good afternoon, everybody. Nice speaking to all of you once again. We sincerely hope all of you are enjoying good health and all of you and your families are sound and safe. This quarter being the way it was with the second wave coming up, after first deciding on 8th of May being the date for the Board, we had to postpone it because there was a lockdown which was announced in Kerala, and we kept on postponing it thereafter. But because of the lockdown and with that not ending, we decided, no, we need to close it, and that's the reason we had it on the 19 -- the Board was on the 19th, and today, we are speaking to all of you. If we have to speak about the year which went by, that's definitely a year that we would want to forget in a hurry. And I believe that all of you attending this conference would also be feeling the same way. In spite of that, we believe that we did reasonably okay, and that is where in the fourth quarter, we had a disbursement of about INR 291 crores. But compared to the immediately preceding quarter of about INR 326 crores and the same quarter last year of about INR 347 crores versus the same quarter last year, there was a drop of 16%, but this was a time where caution was the key and there was no actually hope or no reason for one to show any bravado. The AUM basis that showed a total figure of INR 2,088 crores, including the -- or book AUM of about INR 17-odd crores versus the INR 2,650 crores that we had at the same time last year, we were down by about 20%. The average AUM was at about INR 2,112 crores versus about INR 2,616 crores, down -- again down by about 19%, 20%. That is what actually brought down our income to about INR 110 crores in the current quarter versus INR 120 crores that we did immediately preceding quarter versus the INR 246 -- INR 146 crores -- INR 147 crores that we did in the same quarter last year. In the current -- until the last quarter, whatever was NPA was not getting reported as NPA, but we were making provision for the reversal of income or anything and/or the actual NPA. This time, when we actually got the -- the Supreme Court nod that no NPA should be treated as NPA, this income on NPA, which was about roughly INR 6 crores, INR 6.5 crores. That was netted off against the interest income, which is one of the reasons why the income in this current quarter was seen at about INR 110 crores versus about INR 121 crores in the immediately preceding quarter. It's -- over and above that, the interest, the AUM also went down from about INR 2,200 crores to less than INR 2,100 crores. The finance expenditure at about INR 42 crores was significantly lower than the same -- in the same quarter last year, and down from about INR 45 crores that was there in the immediately preceding quarter. The net interest income also sort of going down to about INR 68 crores versus about INR 76 crores in the immediately preceding quarter and INR 91 crores in the same quarter last year. Operating expenses in the current quarter was at about INR 44 crores versus close to similar figures in the immediately preceding quarter, and that's about INR 49 crores in the same quarter last year. Loan loss provisioning was at about INR 11.2 crores. We have been telling over the last couple of quarters that we have moved away from the loan loss provisioning that we did in the first couple of quarters. And now we will move to in normal kind of provisioning. So that last time, it was about INR 11.7 crores. Now it was INR 11.2 crores. Same quarter last year, it was at about INR 22.5 crores, but that was including the COVID provision of about INR 18 crores that we have done in the last -- same quarter last year. This led to the profit being at about INR 8.9 crores versus INR 14 crores in the immediately preceding quarter and almost a similar number in the same quarter last year. On a full year basis, our disbursement at about INR 750 crores was about 58% lower than the same of last year, which was INR 1,788 crores. The INR 750 crores is without considering the interest capitalization of about INR 126 crores which we did based on the moratorium that was given to various customers. On a full year basis, the average AUM was at about INR 2,307 crores versus INR 2,613 crores, a drop of about 12%. The interest income saw a drop of 14% from INR 586 crores last year to about INR 505 crores. And the interest -- the finance expenditure saw an 18% drop on the book. On an overall basis, the drop was about INR 50 crores, INR 36 crores being because of drop in the utilization of funds and INR 14 crores being -- because of drop in the interest rates. So on the full year basis, on the books, we reported a cost of about INR 187 crores. The operating expenditure was at about INR 154 crores versus INR 194 crores. In our presentation which we have uploaded on the website and we sent to the stock exchanges that we have specifically mentioned that while the figure looks lower than the last year, it's more to do with the lack of operations in the first half of the year which went by. And because of which a lot -- employees were used for a lot of activities, including collection and other activities, which are definitely amounts which -- our expenses which are normally on the higher side. The loan loss provision because of the higher provisioning that we did and because of the kind of year that we went by it was at about INR 95 crores versus INR 71 crores last year, leading to the profit after tax in the current year being at INR 52.2 crores versus about INR 60 crores in the last year. The OpEx to NII was at about 48% for the full year versus 54% last year. Return on average AUM was 2.3%, almost similar to last year. And the earnings per share went down to about INR 31 versus about INR 36 that was there last year. On an overall basis, the shareholders' fund went up to close to INR 560 crores from INR 507 crores. And that led to the capital adequacy going up from 26% to 30%. We are happy that we got out in the last year with whatever we have achieved, and we are happy with the performance in spite of it being lower than the last year. I will possibly now ask Madhu to take it forward, and then post that, we will attend to any specific queries that you guys have. Thanks.

Good noon to all of you, and I hope all of you are safe, your families are safe. And just to assure you that at MCSL and everyone in our head office, everything is fine and people are safe. With the new wave, second wave coming in, I think they will -- it has thrown a lot of challenges, but -- let me assure you that things are under control as far as MCSL teams are concerned. Just to add on to Vinod from the financials that he has described. It would be great if we can just look at the recap of the last year. And this recap is very critical because last year helped us to learn a lot of things, unlearn a lot of things and also prepared us stronger in terms of facing the challenges that COVID had been throwing on us, and it would also help us become stronger as we face the second wave and third wave whenever it comes up. If you recollect that during our various calls, results calls when we had. During the first 4 months, that is from April to June due to moratorium and things like that and lockdown, restrictions, we had no option but to be at home or be -- having a restricted movement, we undertook a lot of initiatives. One of them was how to improve the quality of our team members by involving them into learning and development. So a lot of reorientation activities happened while there was lockdown. At the same time, we have undertaken a huge customer connect program, whereby all our employees were talking to lots of customers. And the focus was on if we could cross-sell gold loan, if we could cross-sell other products, which they may need at this -- at that time when there was lockdown. At the same time, connecting with them on the soft collection. Because during the moratorium, it was very important that -- to understand the status of the customer, how is he and things like that. So there was a massive campaign to connect with the customer and understand their well-being. And as August and September came in, we geared up for business resumption. If you recollect, we had mentioned about a lot of market-friendly schemes that we had launched. And then, of course, we continued with the cross-sell. And it is around Q3, Q4 when actually the business resumed in a full-fledged way, business as usual started happening. It was Q3 and -- quite reflected in the disbursement also. The festive seasons where we took maximum advantage. I think during this Q3 festive quarter, we took a huge advantage by coming back into the market, which is very well reflected in the disbursement as well. And then the Q4 where we said now everything is fine, and we should focus on how we come back to business as usual. And during this Q3, Q4 or H2 of last year, I think our deployment was 100%. That is we were operational in 100% of the locations that we were operating. Our entire team was in action, including the collections team. There was a significant improvement in collections as well, just to give you a brief outlook in the sense that it is visible in the collection efficiencies as well. Starting from October onwards, the NPA rollback also improved. And as we reached March, we had a very good set of rollback from 90 plus, which was a positive sign for Q4 and a very clear indication that things are bouncing back, things are looking positive, minus whatever happened in Q1 right now, and we are going through this. I think Q4 had all the indications that industry is bouncing back. And there was a clear signal in the sense that customers' cash flow improved, and we saw it getting reflected in the collection efficiencies and NPAs as well. Quick update on the secondhand cars. This year, we have -- last year -- until last year, we've been reporting that we would expand into 4-wheeler -- secondhand cars, and we had mentioned the centers that we are getting into. That still is part of our budget as we go forward. So just to give you assurance that used car is one of the key product that would be looked at this particular year, how to grow that. Right now, the book is about INR 23.9 crores. And we have a very good learning from the day we had launched this product, including the fact that we are now into a network of more than 200 dealers and DSA active -- dealers and DSA products are rightly positioned. And currently, our -- among the customer segment, we have about close to 40% of our portfolio where salary class is our customer. So we have a very positive learning from used car. So going forward, we'll build from here from our learnings. I think -- to start with, I think these are the basic things I thought I should share. And from industry perspective, the total sales -- total industry sales, we had projected about INR 1.5 crore around Q3. And that is what it looks like. As of now, INR 1.5 crores sale has happened. That is the wholesale numbers. Retail would be about, let's say, 25 lakhs or 30 lakhs less than that. That's our assessment. So as I said, Q4 was a very positive quarter for us. I am hopeful that once the market opens up, we'll see a very good traction in 2-wheeler business in the -- as the lockdown is eased out and it is getting eased out, and we are seeing that things are coming back to normal in a lot of areas. I hope so that this Q4 push would definitely put us back into action. I think to start with, this is the basic thing I thought I'll share, and then we can open up Q&A where we can ask -- where you can ask any specific inputs, which we'll be very happy to respond back. Thank you so much.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Sarvesh Gupta from Maximal Capital.

Sir, first question is on Slide #28 where you've shown bucket-wise portfolio credit quality. Now in quarter 4, there seems to be a very sharp spike in S2 plus S3 bucket. So against 15%, which was more or less constant for the last 3 quarters, now it is 23%. And against that, we are at 12% sort of a gross NPA. So given the situation and now with the first quarter also was going to be very difficult for you. What are the expectations on this gross NPA number going forward? And how much can flow from this 20% -- 23% under distress?

Sarvesh. Thanks for being -- for participating on the call. We definitely agree that the numbers have spiked up, and they are definitely at 23% being S2 and S3. It is definitely a big number. Like Madhu did mention that Q4, we did see some bit of improvement in the collection. But then obviously, that was not sufficient for us to reduce that number. In fact, it did go up. Here what we would definitely want to say is Q1 maybe for the last 45 days, it has been reasonably tough, collections have dropped. In fact April was okay, May was pretty bad. June seems to be significantly better. And we hope -- or we are fairly confident that this trend will continue. Q1 will not be the right way to -- right number to look at, but we are definitely confident that we will bounce back in Q2. And whatever indications we are seeing from the ground, whatever we are hearing from our friends and colleague on the ground, they are saying that no, collections are improving. In fact we track it on a daily basis, and we are seeing that improvement. So I don't want to put a number. You were asking where do -- where will that 11.7% go to, may not want to put a number though, but definitely, we may not be surprised if that number goes to about 13%, 14% also. But then one should clearly understand that it is temporary and it would change immediately.

Okay. But since you track it granular manner on a daily wise and now we are at the end of first quarter almost. So this 23% would come to what numbers sir at quarter 1 ending or around current time?

I don't want to guess the number, but then S3 should be in the -- could be in the range of, let me say, 13.5% to 14% annually. That is too will keep moving up and down, but the -- what I'm specifically talking about is S3 because that something which could be tracked far more closely than the other number.

Okay, okay. So any indication of the credit cost for this year compared to what we have done last year?

See, last year, the credit cost was 4.4% of the average AUM, with -- in fact 2 components there. Q1 and Q2, you had a huge amount of provisioning done. And obviously, there was a 21% drop in the AUM itself. So you're talking about the growth in your NPA, you are talking about a reduction in your business. And then for end of it you're talking about the reduction in your denominator. So all these things played up, which led to your NPA -- or your credit costs going down up to about 4.4%, but that has got a lot to do with the 5.7% and 6.6% credit cost in the first and second quarter. Third and fourth quarter was reasonably muted at 2% and 2.8%. 2.8% was including the INR 27-odd crores of write-off that we took. So in spite of all those things, it was 4.4. We believe that on a full year basis, we've been confident that disbursement will improve. We're believing that second quarter onwards, we should be able to report a decent portfolio quality. We believe that we should end the year, FY '22 should be in the normal range, about 2.5% to 3%. We normally were in the 2.24% to 2.25% range. But I would possibly say that it could be in the 2.5% to 3% kind of range. And we are fairly confident we will be there.

Okay. Now coming to your Western, North performance, it seems like this bottom has fallen down considerably. So is it just a business reason or are there some frauds or something else that you have found out in your booking Western, North compared to your other 2 areas?

No, I will put it differently. There are no frauds with God's grace and obviously, we have a nice set of team, which unfortunately came up only maybe, I would say, towards the third quarter of FY '20. And -- it was -- we have taken a very senior team, and we expect them to deliver. Unfortunately, last -- within 2, 3 months of them actually taking over, we had all these issues that we are seeing in the last 1 year. In fact, there is very little that we can blame because we reduced our disbursal significantly. We have seen as a percentage, the NPA numbers looking huge. And that is what is there. We are fairly confident that once we return back to our normal in terms of disbursement and the collections would also definitely improve. NPA numbers will start coming down. The NPA as a percentage will look better. So this is what we have been actually telling over the last -- we have said this thing earlier also. We have not been able to give them sufficient time to work in a normal atmosphere. That's the reason. But otherwise, we've got a senior team in North, West.

So just to add to what Vinod has said, I think we have been maintaining that our growth would come from outside South. And to that extent, non-South areas is where we have -- we wanted to grow in a big way. But unfortunately, while the NPAs remained there or they would have got addressed as well the kind of AUM that we need to build up last 1.5 year, it did not happen. And once market opens up, I think these are the areas where we will see significant contribution from the top line perspective. And of course, there are a lot of other areas where we need to expand, which last Q4 '20, we had planned, but we had to shelf it for some time. And that comes into action by, let's say, Q2 or Q3 this year. So non-South is where the AUM would come. And once the AUM starts coming in, probably the size of the collection problem would diminish. Of course, there is an action on collection in these areas. Of course, whatever has happened in terms of moratorium and then the lockdown and things like that, it has equally impacted those areas as well. So while we address that and also build our business there, I think this should get automatically addressed. But is there any significant setback that we have faced in that market? Absolutely, no. It is as good or as natural market as it is in the South or elsewhere in the country.

But 2, 3x NPA so what were the reasons, specific reasons that you have found why Western, North are at 25% NPA versus even East, which is a new market for you at 9%?

No. I think the reasons are same. In fact, North, the spike you have seen possibly in the last 1 year because of this overall scenario which is there, because of the COVID, maybe collection dropping, moratorium coming into place. But it was in the, let us say, about 10%, 11% kind of range that NPA -- so that is now, I would say, in the range of about 24%, but that's to do with the scenario which has been there for over the last 12 months or 15 months. One should not look at it -- at the end result, one should look at it as a let's say, area where we should identify it as an area which needs correction. And which is what we have identified. And so that's the reason we have gone ahead and actually projected it this way, in the presentation, we have clearly mentioned these are the areas, access your loan book. But why is your NPA percentage because we ourselves want to it be identified, we want to tell you that this is the status. 2 quarters down the line, we want you to compare that two. Sarvesh, if you give us a couple of more quarters, you will see the results.

Okay. And last question is, so the way we are looking at the impact of COVID is that there is a sharp divergence between the well-being of higher income classes versus the lower income classes. Now recently, I think MD of a very large OEM also said that while the higher-end segment bikes are completely sold out, lower end, there is a tremendous pressure. So given that, are we changing -- how are we placed in this changing environment? And how is your performance now you're reporting last after every other company. In the market vis-a-vis other 2-wheeler financiers, how are you sort of performing? And given the environment which I mentioned, how are you thinking about it?

So Madhu here, for the high-end bike, I think there's a niche segment, and they are basically the high income or where they have banking habits or already there would be a banking relationship. And so -- it's easy to say that it is sold out. Yes, the volumes are less, and at the same time, you have a specific segment of customers whose cash flow is not impacted because of COVID. Even the salary class people, especially who are in service sector or banking sector, even their cash flow is not impacted, although they may like to conserve their cash flow, at the same time it is not impacted compared to the open market people who are into businesses or small business or into daily wages. Coming to the normal 2-wheeler sales, I think in the population of about 130 crore plus and a sale of 1.52 crores 2-wheelers in our country. I think it is a very conservative sale that happens in the sense that our public transport system is not that efficient that it can cater to such a large population, and especially in the Tier 3, Tier 4 centers in the rural areas where 2-wheeler becomes a kind of business model for the individual people because a milkman, he needs a 2-wheeler to sell his milk, or a tea shop owner or a farmer to carry his farm produce besides tractor, he may use 2-wheeler because of lack of public transport. And now when we come to the COVID era where definitely the public transport system is impacted. And if it is working people want to be safe, they want to maintain the social distancing. At the same time, people would want that they maintain safe travel for themselves and their family, I think that is where 2-wheeler comes into play. These are the factors which would keep on propelling 2-wheeler sales in our country. Prices hike had been a problem for the last 2 years. I think from Euro IV, we came to Euro VI, and then many of the new technologies that OEM brought in, I think those are very positive signs. While it is a price-sensitive thing, but those are positive signs that transition to Euro VI, less pollution kind of technology that's very welcomed. It could pinch the pocket of a lot of people. And to some extent, it has also impacted the sales at some point in time. But that's how the world is moving. So it would pinch people's pocket. But as a society that is something which is good to happen. So there has been a -- there is a huge plus as far as this industry is concerned, and there are a few minus. But the pluses are more for this industry to get propelled and the factors that I mentioned due to COVID and things like that, whatever factors I mentioned, I think, as the lockdown eases, we have our understanding and whatever we could learn from the feedback from the dealers, there would be a huge traction. There is a pent-up demand in the market. And then as we close Q1 and enter Q2, and beyond that, the festive seasons and things like that starts. And if schools and colleges open, as we enter into Q2 or Q3, then again, it would propel the 2-wheeler sales. So there are all pluses that is there as far as this industry is concerned. It is about the blip related to COVID and across the industry, it has happened. Otherwise, I think this is the bottom line. You cannot be below this. It's plus from here.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Vidhi Shah from Antique Stock Broking.

Sir, so basically, I just wanted to ask that Northern side, like non-South region when you say that growth will come mainly from that area. But also, we have faced some asset quality issues out there. So going ahead, what precaution or what controls and checks are we having additional taking place or so that the same mistakes don't occur? Or are we focusing on some different geographies, like how are we looking at things in that area in terms of growth and also taking care of the asset quality?

So let me clarify, Vidhi, that the growth -- when I say growth in the non-South, I'm not seeing that South is not growing. Everyone would grow. But for MCSL, because our entry is recent in non-South area, I think it makes more sense for us to increase our market share in those areas, okay, point number one. Point number two, the increase -- elevated NPAs that you are looking at, it is not linked to the schemes of credit policies of the company, okay? I'll come to that as well. It is more to do with how the market is behaving in those particular areas. Are we having significant collection issues there? No. It is not like that. Do we have the confidence to collect that money? Yes, our confidence level is very high to collect it back. Coming to credit process perspective and I have told this many times during the -- various calls, we grow very -- at PIN code level, we go into the managing the portfolio quality. From the perspective that is there any geographic specific -- geography-specific issues which is hitting us badly. So that kind of incidence from area perspective, it is not there. If there is any specific PIN code or specific location or specific district where we are facing problems, it is addressed immediately by tightening norms there, focusing on collections and then bringing that area back to normal like that. So for us, it is not that we are going to slow down in certain areas or we'll tamper -- sorry, not tamper but we'll change our credit strategy? No. It is well as per industry standards and much beyond that as well. And so I think for us, it is business as usual when we deal with all these NPAs and things like that, it is about increasing the collection. It is about market opens up and then we are able to travel freely, collect more money from the market. When you continue collection -- collecting in the West, it was totally restricted like Maharashtra and all. We had very tough time. We couldn't move. I mean it is applicable for all the finance companies. So these are beyond our control. But when we get the opportunity to move around in the market, do more collections, these things are getting -- going to get addressed. I have no other trend to tell that this area is bad or that area is too good. I don't have any trend, but it is about movement -- geographical movement and freedom of movement. Once that happens, and I think they should get addressed.

Okay. Okay. And sir, in terms of asset quality, like if you can just give some examples, the customers, what stress are they facing? And which is why they're not able to give collect -- pay amounts as of now? Like if there's any particular geography, how will things improve going ahead in terms of collection?

I mentioned about the contactability of customers. And as soon as the last year lockdown happened, our own employees, they got into contacting the customer. And from the same learning as soon as -- now in the month of April and in the month of May, where almost all the states, almost across the country, I think, except Gujarat, everywhere there was a lockdown, okay? So we did the same thing that we allocated it to all our employees, and they are calling to the customers. And we are...

Sorry to interrupt. So I meant in terms of types of customers that are facing issues and who are not able to repay. What business segments these customers are in which are under stress? And...

I'm coming to that. I'm coming to that. I'm coming to that. I'm only telling you the process with which we are trying to understand what kind of stress customer is going through. So again, in the month of April, May and now in June, our own team is directly in touch with the customer, talking to them. Currently, the feedback is that because of the lockdown, their cash flow is impacted. They're not saying no. They gave a promise that is PTPs are there, customer is postponing the installment. But definitely, we are not seeing a trend where customer -- see certain segments or certain areas where customers have gone totally bad and they won't be able to pay ever. So we don't have that kind of feedback from the whatever feedback we track when we call the customers. It is -- and I've been maintaining that it is about the temporary cash flow disruption that is happening because of which customer may postpone 1 or 2 installment or 3 installment. Otherwise, we are not seeing that there would be a -- there's any industry or segment where people have been impacted very badly. Another thing that I maintain is that the customer segment that we operate, they are small business owners, and for them to come back to action for them to reestablish their business or restart their business, it is much easier, much faster rather than people who are involved in big business where they have SME kind of business. We are not there, but they need some time to bounce back, they need a bank support or restructuring and things like that. So from that perspective, from our previous experience, and I mentioned about Q3, Q4, how the collection was bouncing back, efficiency is there, bouncing back. We hope that the same thing happens now. As far as this second wave is concerned, it is too early to tell you any impact, see, how who has affected and things like that because still the collection is happening, still the calling is happening. So a lot of action is happening. Maybe after Q1, we'll do some analysis and when we meet for the Q1 results, maybe we'll be able to give you more insight into the question that you asked.

Sure, sure. And sir, my final question, how is this EV in 2-wheelers pan out for our customer segment and for our business growth going ahead?

I think EV is more to do with manufacturers and the volume that they need to increase, right now it is only a start button that we have pressed. And the new OEMs, which has come, they need to increase their distribution network, their campaigns -- sales campaigns and things like that. Right now, the volume is very less. But -- the way we are seeing that, the OEM who are kind of getting into this segment, I think it is around, let's say, H2 where we will see a lot of traction. There is acceptability of this product in the market. Our experience has also been similar. But until OEMs and dealerships come up and the distribution network comes into play across the country, we may see a very muted volume. So as of now -- and in the recent quarter, whatever has happened that also would dampen whatever pace they have got. But H2 is where I hope that it should look better, in the sense that the OEMs who were supposed to venture into this segment have already started their foray. They have already appointed lot of dealers. We are seeing that dealers are coming up across. Wherever we are operating, we are able to connect with them. I think once this wave is over, we should see some traction around Q3.

[Operator Instructions] As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.

Thanks to all the participants. This is Vinod Panicker. Before signing off, I just wanted to say that while we have covered whatever we thought was necessary in our initial comments and addressed whatever queries were raised to us. We feel that if anybody wants to talk to us separately maybe after this call, you are free to call anyone of us or write to us on our e-mail ID, numbers -- our mail IDs are there with most of you, but numbers are also there. So if anything needs to be addressed, we will be more than happy to address. We are pretty confident that things will improve as we go forward. And while Q1 may not be the right time to look at the numbers, we are pretty confident that 2Q will be the quarter where the bounce back happens. And going forward, we are definitely hopeful that things will continue to get better and better. We feel that -- definitely feel that the end of the year, whatever we have said in terms of credit -- asset quality, the credit cost, we are pretty confident that we should be able to meet those numbers. And -- since we hope that all of you continue to remain in good health. And we can maybe be in touch again in the next quarter.

So thank you all the participants. Thanks a ton for taking your time, giving us almost 1 hour of your precious time on a Monday. Glad that all of you are there. And also happy to note that all of you are well and fine. Just a quick recap what I wanted to express and tell and maybe, as Vinod suggested, if there's more insight needed, we can connect separately. I think the learning from how to handle the situation that we faced last year is something very precious. And I think as an organization, we have learned to be really fast, agile, responding not only to the pandemic, but how it is impacting the business and how the strategies need to be redone or has to be changed and then putting entire organization into the trajectory of those strategies. At the same time, the confidence that we have is from our experience of Q3 and especially Q4 where things really moved very positively from sales perspective, from collections perspective, from the team perspective in the sense of the productivity that they were delivering. I think with minus second wave, if I just look at Q4 and how it would propel our growth, I think we are very positive that we would really look much, much better compared to even Q4 last year. And as we plan further, I think next time we'll also tell what we'll benchmark and from there what is our growth trajectory. I think we have all the positives to believe that this is the bottom of everything, and we'll be much stronger. We'll emerge much stronger as we go forward. And I mentioned about the industry that with 130 crore plus population, about 2 crore 2-wheeler sales is negligible. So we should look very positively as far as this industry is concerned. And I hope that we'll have a much better situation when we talk -- when we meet next. And wishing all of you a very safe time and looking forward to talking to you, all of you once again. And thank you very much, and thank you, organizers for organizing this call. Take care. Stay safe. Thank you so much.

Thank you.