Naspers Limited (NPN.JO) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to [indiscernible] Naspers FY '23 Results Call. [Operator Instructions] Please also note that the event is being recorded. I will now hand the conference over to Eoin Ryan. Please go head.

Thanks, Chris, and welcome, everyone. Thanks for joining us on the call today. With me on the call, I have our CEO, Bob van Dijk; and our CFO, Vasileios Sgourdos. They're going to take us through the key highlights for the year and then the proposal to eliminate the cross holding. We'll then move to Q&A, at which time we'll be joined by Bob van Dijk, the segment CEO. And as always, please reach at the IR if you have any follow-up to [indiscernible]. Before I hand it over allow me through some quick -- keeping items. We've commenced not completed the exit from OLX Auto business. So as such, our reported IFRS continue up still includes some autos operations to at process is not finalized at the 31st of March. Our intention remains to exit these businesses and the search, we thought it more useful to send pro forma numbers excluding all that sort of -- so a reconciliation to the IFRS numbers has been the tenant and that's on Page 24 of the deck, that is on the website. Lastly, FX translation negatively impacted the group's revenue and trading profit cut at 7% or $2.4 billion and $347 million, respectively. So to get a true view of our results, we will speak to organic growth, excluding FX and M&A and the OLX Autos operations. So with that, I will now turn it over to Bob.

Yes. Thanks a lot, Eoin, and thanks everybody for joining us on the call today. Today, we announced some results, and we also took for the proposal to simplify the group structure. We are really making clear focus on the commitments that we made to you last year. So you would have seen that our businesses are growing really strongly, and they are on a clear cost to profitability. At the same time, we are reducing our share count, and we are improving NAV per share every day. We continue to have very strong confidence in and support for Tencent and Tencent has been rebounding quite well. And today, we're proposing a transaction which will meaningfully simplify the structure of the group by eliminating the cross holding. And we thought we should start there if we can go to Slide 3. We'll talk about the proposal. So we have received approval from the South African authorities to unwind the cross holding in the group structure, and we will be putting this proposal to shareholders to vote on. Now Basil will talk you through the specifics in a bit. But first, I'm very pleased with this outcome. It is an excellent solution with minimal cost, and it will ensure the continuation of the open-ended repurchase program. And second, the elimination of the cross-holding will meaningfully simplify our corporate structure while it preserves the benefits that we gained from the listing of process and from the share transaction. And third, the economic interest of both sets of shareholders will be preserved and Naspers will remain domicile in South Africa. So more on this later from Basil, but let me talk about results now. So I'll first highlight our strategy on Slide 6, and it's been a source of great strength for the group in a very volatile environment, and it will continue to define our path in the years to come. We built a strong portfolio in markets that are really transformed by technology. And this technology that empowers local marketplaces and its technology that disrupts consumer transactions and access to financial services and it is technology that delivers enhanced education all the way from kindergarten to enterprise. We see a lot of upsides in each of these categories. And as we build value operationally, we're also taking meaningful steps to improve our NAV per share through our open-ended share repurchase program. And every day, we sell a small amount of Tencent shares, we buy back our own shares at a discount, and this actually increases our per share exposure to Tencent. We remain very bullish on Tencent future about its asset and also the management team. And in the past 12 months, we have repurchased and sold about $12 billion worth of stock. It's minor compared to the overall size of Tencent that is really significant when it compares to the size of process. And in the coming year, we do not expect the changes to the parameters of the program. Now let's move to Slide 7, where you can see that sticking to our strategy resulted in another strong year for the group, where we executed well across our key objectives. The first, we delivered a strong set of results. Our food, classifieds and fintech segments combined, delivered peer-leading growth of 36% in revenue. Now e-tail, which has taken a lot of emit was negatively impacted by the macroeconomic backdrop, like all of its peers in [indiscernible]. And I actually saw a small revenue decline year-on-year. And that decline had a large impact on our total consolidated revenue growth, which came in at 16% when we include the retail business. Second, we've taken significant action to achieve our goal of e-commerce profitability during the first half of financial year '25, and we are very well on track. Third, our open-ended share buyback is do exactly what it's supposed to do, which is to grow NAV per share while increasing our per share exposure to Tencent. Fourth, we have a very strong financial position with gross cash of almost $15 billion, and that is a strategic advantage that provides flexibility to pursue opportunities when they arise. And finally, sustainability is a strategic priority and it's core to our strategy location process. Now we can take to Slide 8, it shows the strong execution across our core segments with each delivering between 20% and 50% growth despite tough comparisons from a strong period last year and weaker economic backdrop. So food delivery revenue grew ahead of peers and profitability improved tremendously, and iFood benefited from sustained momentum in the core restaurant business and from improved traction in quick commerce and groceries. Core Classifieds delivered good growth and improved profitability with solid operating metrics and strong performance in Europe. We made a tough decision that we've heard about to exit the OLX Autos business that was facing significant challenges at the end of last year. And this will lead to a sizable improvement in the e-commerce profitability. Our payments team has made an excellent progress and has grown revenue by 52%, and we're especially excited about India's credit business, which continues to scale in the field. And in Edtech, our enterprise platforms continue to grow and better position themselves by scaling and by improving their product offerings. And in the future, we will focus our investment on leveraging the group's generative AI capabilities for APAC in particular. Now we're committed to achieving profitability while growing revenue. And Slide 9 shows that we are doing exactly that across each of our segments in financial year '23. So it's not either or, it is both. So I expect peer-leading growth and improved profitability in financial year '24 as we look to achieve our ambition of e-commerce profitability during the first half of financial year '25. And we're making real progress towards that ambition. You will see the turning point was reached in the second half of the year on Slide 10. And this has been driven by 2 things: first, the benefits of scale, right, with increased revenue and solid revenue growth, this has fallen to the bottom line. And second, we have a leaner cost base following significant reductions at both the business level and at the corporate level. And I'm very confident we will have consolidated e-commerce profit during the first half of financial year '25. Now over the past year, we have been allocating capital to our own stock and to the future growth of our current businesses. Our current businesses we know well, and we believe the risk there is much lower. And Slide 11 shows us nicely. So all in all, we have invested $13 billion and $1.5 billion of debt was allocated to share repurchases. And the fast majority of the remaining capital we invested was devoted to the Food segment with $1.6 billion used to acquire the remainder of iFood. And as you can see in today's results, this is a great company that is doing very well, and we're very excited about its future. We also invested $600 million in Delivery Hero as we have seen some dilution in our holding over time, and we continue to believe that stock is undervalued. And we increased our holding to just under 30%. And finally, we've invested $200 million in early-stage investments, primarily in India to our Prosus Venture one. The impact of our investment and share repurchases actually illustrated on Slide 12. And there are not many other companies of our size that have the ability to do this and the benefits are many. And in the last financial year, we've returned $12 billion to shareholders. We reduced the free float by more than 20%, and we improved NAV per share by more than 6%. And the buyback has contributed to a significant reduction in the combined holding company discount and it equals in the last financial year, $29 billion of value created for the group's shareholders. And while it's not shown on the slide, Naspers also bought back about $3 billion of its shares, and it reduced its free flow by 12%. And we will continue this program for as long as the large discount to NAV persists. And you can see here how the benefits would compound over time, so improving energy per share by 19% after 3 years. And if we make progress on the top and the bottom of the NAV per share equation, we've also made real progress on our sustainability initiatives, and you can see that on Slide 13. So we know that the investment to be made matter. Recently, we established our responsible investment thesis. And our ambition is to invest more into sustainability-driven businesses. And we take decisive action on climate. And in financial '23, we implemented all necessary measures to reduce our corporate level Scope 1 and Scope 2 emissions to 0. It's a great achievement, but it's only a step on the journey ahead, and we've worked hard to build a real-world climate transition plan, and we have developed our climate targets applying the sun-based targets initiatives guidance. Our teams are also focused on managing waste and we've developed into that enable impactful and scalable packaging strategies for digital delivery platforms in the group. And finally, before I turn over to Basil, I'll spend a moment on Slide 14 that highlights our progress in AI and generative AI. And it's really difficult to capture everything that's going on, on one slide because we've actually prioritized AI across the portfolio, we've been completely embedding it in our workflow for the last 5 years. So in 2018, we created our own AI lab. And since then, it's been supporting group companies to accelerate machine learning and AI and also to scale adoption. And it also helps companies develop AI by design products and services. And we always do this with an eye on [indiscernible]. For the early start we had our scale and also our ability to apply AI in real-world examples has enabled us to develop really strong connections with important partners in the ecosystem, and that has granted us early access to releases of new models and the very latest tools. And based on that access and the tools we have developed an AI assistant based on GeneAI, which is called Transform. And today, there are already 4,000 people across the organization, they're using PlusOne to improve their daily work. So across our group, our colleagues are using AI for better product recommendations, but also for things like fraud prevention, content moderation, logistics optimization and much, much more. To give you an example, right, in OLX, AI models are used to attribute ROI to single marketing campaigns and it allows OLX to better optimize spending, which is drastically reducing costs for the same marketing outcomes. A similar initiative now being implemented across the group. Another example is in iFood, which leverages 10 AIs with like a personalized offering to customers, and that really improves the liability and efficiency of the food and grocery delivery process. Things are moving quickly. And we also continue to look at early-stage AI companies. We already invested in a number of those. And actually, in our investment decision-making process, our AI leadership team is actually in the need and very central and it's humid helpful and understanding the right opportunities. And finally, our team are really working across the group to make sure that ethical social and legal considerations are integral to our AI development. And I think it's really crucial to preserving the quality and longevity of AI products and their performance. So a lot going on, on AI and GeneAI and a lot more to come. And with that, I will turn the call over to Basil.

Thank you, Bob, and hello, everyone. We appreciate you joining us today. I'm delighted to share the substantial progress we've made on our shareholder commitments. So let's kick things off with Slide 16. The first point I will make is that e-commerce consolidated revenue growth was strong. The group delivered revenue growth of 36% in the 4 core segments of Food, Delivery, [ Classified ] Payments and Fintech and EdTech. Second, we reduced costs across the organization, including a 30% reduction in corporate headcount. Trading profit margin of our consolidated businesses improved 6 percentage points in the second half of the financial year when compared to the first half. We've turned the corner by accelerating profitability while still maintaining good growth. Group trading profit of $3.6 billion and core headline earnings per share reflect a reduction in pension profits and higher losses from e-commerce associates. Encouraging me, post the close of the financial year once and other significant appropriates have reported good improvements in earnings. This will factor into next set of results. Given the challenged macroeconomic conditions and their impact on valuations, we recognized impairment losses of $2.5 billion for the year, the drop in public market valuations and the increased cost of capital drove these impairments. Our investments are growing ahead of peers and are committed to delivering significant improvements in profitability. We are confident in their long-term potential. Valuations can scale on continued growth and profitability improvements. Finally, alongside a strengthened balance sheet and excellent liquidity, our free cash flow improved significantly year-over-year to an outflow of only $13 million. This figure excludes OLX Auto, which we are in the process of exiting. I'm very pleased with the strong improvement in free cash flow. Now let's turn to our consolidated e-commerce businesses on Slide 17. You can see we are heading in the right direction, accelerating profitability while still driving better than peer growth. The strong growth was driven by all of our core segments. As I mentioned earlier, the 4 core segments grew at strong 36%. Each segment is growing significantly ahead of its peers, notable in the world safe of growth. Etail was below in exception, declining 4% to $2 billion. Revenue growth has been impacted by the lapping of an elevated pandemic-related base in the prior year. There was also lower demand in the reported financial year as offline repayments offloaded inventory with COVID restrictions lifted. These trends are stabilizing, and we are seeing improvement in the new financial year. So turning to Slide 18, you can see a clear improvement in profit, driven by continued revenue growth and cost reductions. The second half of the financial year 2023, represents an inflection point. We are increasingly confident in our ability to achieve e-commerce profitability during the first half of 2025. Now I will share deeper insights into each of the segment's financial performance, starting with Delivery and iFood on Slide 19. iFood grew revenues 35% to reach $1.4 billion. Orders increased 7%, which, together with growth in order values and advertising revenue growth drove the strong revenue growth that I mentioned earlier. iFood delivered over 850 million orders in the year and its gross merchandise value grew 20% to $9.4 billion. Good growth and enhanced operating efficiency, improved margins. Trading losses reduced by substantial $110 million. iFood's grocery marketplace and quick commerce business saw substantial growth, focused investment and improving economics drive strong improvements in trading margins in the second half of the year when compared to the first half. The strong results underline the group's conviction when it purchased the remaining stake in April and November, there is a clear path to a good return from this investment. Turning now to Slide 20, where Classifieds grew strongly and improved profitability. Tax prices had a challenging year. This segment was most impacted by the significant events of the past year. The war in Ukraine and a stock change in macro conditions for autos in the second half of the financial year were consequential. The business over as decisively in a cut environment. Avito was sold in October 2022 for $2.4 billion, and we're in the process of exiting OLX Autos. The financial numbers on this slide focus on what remains. That is a solid European classified business. Core Classified is well on the path to industry level margins are growing strongly. Excluding the impact of the war in Ukraine, the consolidated revenue of the Core Classifieds business increased by 20%, well ahead of peers. Trade profit margin of 19% was a 6 percentage point improvement compared to the previous year. The segment has significantly improved profitability in the second half of the year due to good growth and cost actions. Profitability and margins should continue to improve in the year ahead. The segment generates substantial profits and positive cash flows, all of which are experiencing healthy growth. Moving to payments in FinTech on Slide 21, which shows strong growth in the PSP business and meaningfully improved profitability for our quick scaling Indian credit business. PayU grew revenue by 52% to $903 million, driven by a strong performance in India and in Turkey and a fast-growing India credit business. In the PSP business, the total number of transactions grew 19% year-on-year. Total payment value grew 39% to more than $98 billion. India is the largest contributor to the PSP performance and its revenue grew by 42%, while its total payment value grew 44% to $58 billion. The GPO business grew total payment value by 32% to $59 million, significant progress in Turkey and depends growth. India Credit continued to scale with issuances increasing 47%. India Credit revenues doubled in the second half of the financial year to reach $48 million. With the weakening macro backdrop, the business managed default risk well and was deliberate in keeping delinquency low at 2.5%. Good growth, solid risk scoring and continued diversification and reduction in the cost of funding drove the integrated business to a $1 million profit in the second half of the financial year. There was a 63 percentage point year-on-year margin improvement. Lastly, let's move to EdTech on Slide 22, where the business is expanding offerings to capture a very large opportunity. Stack Overflow and good habits were acquired during the first half of the financial year ended 2022. The numbers in the prior year incorporates 8 and 10 months, respectively, of trading for financial year 2023 numbers capture 12 months of trading. EdTech revenue grew 21% to $134 million and investment in the expansion of offerings increased trading losses to $131 million. Stack Overflow bookings grew 37%, driving revenue growth of 20% to $94 million. Stack Overflow teams now accounts for 50% of total revenues of the company compared to 38% in the prior year. product development and expansion of sales and marketing capacity drove the Stack Overflow trading loss of $84 million for the year. Turning to GoodHabitz. They increased the number of courses by 51% and the number of enterprise customers they serve by 18% to over 2,600. GoodHabitz revenue grew by 34%. And as a result, it significantly improved its profitability in the second half with a margin improvement of 38% when compared to the first half of the financial year. On Slide 23, we reflect Core HEPS earnings, the group's indicator of the operating performance, which attracts for nonoperating items. The decrease in Core HEPS earnings is driven by a drop in patient profitability and currency translation impact. Like the rest of the portfolio companies, pension has impacted costs and returned to growth in the new financial year as change COVID restrictions were limited. Its first quarter results delivered a strong 34% profit improvement. Moving to Slide 34 and the improvement in free cash flow. The group's free cash outflow, including the impact of OLX Autos, was $410 million, a sizable year-on-year improvement of $17 million. Excluding OLX Autos, which the group is exiting, improved the free cash outflow to only $30 million. The efforts to accelerate profitability and the focus on free cash flow delivered a significant improvement in the second half when compared to the first half of the year. So let's move to the balance sheet and funding of the business on Slide 25. We have a solid balance sheet, comprising approximately $15 billion of central gross cash at the year-end. We received listed [indiscernible] shares from Tencent valued at a sizable $4.7 billion. In the new financial year, Tencent increased its dividend by 50%, and we have received $750 million in June of 2023. The capital markets are important to the group, and we continue to manage the balance sheet to support the investment-grade rating. And finally, I'd like to take you through the proposal to simplify the group structure, which is depicted on Slide 26. You will be familiar with the shares change in 2021, which in both process and aspect for the respective stock exchanges. While the resulting cross-holding was necessary to sufficiently reduce Naspers supply on the Johannesburg Stock Exchange, it did add a layer of complexity to the group. The solution we've proposed today eliminates the cross-holding, along for the backpack open-ended share repurchase program to continue. The process open-ended share repurchase also continues and is not impacted by the elimination of the cross-holding. So touching on the mechanics, both Naspers and Prosus will do a capitalization issue through the existing preload shareholders. The Naspers and Prosus entities won't participate in each tier issuance. The final step process will sell its very small residual holding in Naspers and winding the cost-holding. These steps ensure Naspers ownership of shares in Prosus aligns with its current economic interest of 43%. The remaining 70% ownership in Prosus will continue with the Prosus free float, which ownership also aligns with its existing economic interest. The ownership of Naspers will remain unchanged. Naspers will remain [indiscernible] and the South African domicile and tax revenue company. It will retain a 72% growth interest in Prosus and Prosus will remain a subsidiary of Naspers. This is a good solution to a complex problem, but also has minimal cost for the group. We will ask shareholders for their support of this proposal in a vote targeted for August to then completely unwind in the third quarter of the calendar year. I will close with the following messages. We are delivering on the key commitments to our shareholders. We made significant progress in the second half of the financial year ended 2023, maintaining growth while accelerating profitability improvements. We remain committed to achieving consolidated e-commerce profitability during the first half of financial year 2025. And our confidence to do so has increased significantly. The robust balance sheet is a key strength in the current climate and provides significant flexibility and optionality. Capital allocation will be disciplined and focused. Finally, with the shareholder support, we can now remove the cross holding. This is a significant step in major continued execution of the open-ended share repurchase for Naspers and delivering simplicity for all shareholders. This action has delivered a reduction in the discount during the financial year 2023 of 17% and created $29 billion of value today. The group's ambition is to compound these strong returns. With that, I'll hand it back to Bob.

Thanks, Basil. Now we've covered a fair bit of ground and I'm looking forward to answering any questions you have. It was a turbulent here, and I really proud of our progress. And in the coming year, you should expect us to continue to focus on what we can control and to follow through on our commitments. And if we do that, we will further strengthen the company and will deliver excellent returns. We will stick to our strategy. We'll continue our open-ended share repurchase program and compound its impact. We will better evidence and crystallize the value of our assets, and we will continue to support Tencent as we firmly believe in the future. And finally, we plan to simplify the structure of the group to the elimination of the cross holding, and we would really appreciate your support and also to get that done. So with that, thanks for your time so far. And Chris, let's open up the lines for questions.

Thank you very much, sir. [Operator Instructions] Our first question is from [indiscernible].

I'll sit to one longer one, if that's okay. I guess I was to ask a bigger picture portfolio and balance sheet question. You obviously have about $20 billion of cash, including a [indiscernible]. You also have the rolling buyback funded by Tencent share sales. And you said the cash will be used for M&A. You've also been pretty explicit about your desire to conduct M&A in your sort of existing operating areas. However, over the last 6 or 7 months, we've sort of seen you pull out of [indiscernible]. There are rumors around non-India pay and the exit of [indiscernible], I think, in a couple of others. So I guess the question is, has there been any shift in your balance sheet approach or M&A priorities? For example, are you more likely to acquire larger profitable businesses versus earlier stage targets? And I obviously don't expect you to take specific target areas, but are there any areas of focus you would draw out? It sort of feels you're in more in your deposit per to me which areas of focus will allow you to deploy many millions of dollar, so any color you can get a pollution would be much appreciated.

Yes. Thanks for the question. And actually, thanks for asking one question because it's a lot easier to remember when you had 3 or 4. So I would say when I look at the way we think about building our business, there's not been a fundamental things. I think we communicated quite clearly that the bar is high, and we also have been very clear on our commitment to get e-commerce to profitability. That remains true. I think within that, there are certainly very specific opportunities that we've done straight for example, by buying the remainder of biodata great business, we think kind of a good price and it's a significant allocation of capital that I think fits both those dimensions of it will not deviate us from the path to profitability, and it needs a high bar for expected return. Now if I look into the future, I think we are at a very critical moment, right? I think we have been very close to generative AI long before, ChatGPT became a publicly available resource. And we see that both sort of the operationalizing of GenAI in our businesses as well as new business models that will be powered by GenAI is a transformational shift in technology. I must say that going into a transition period like that, where I know technology adoption will be at the speed of light with a substantial cash flexibility is a fantastic position to be in because I'm convinced there will be newer companies that will embrace GenAI better than many incumbents. I think those will be companies we'd be very interested in. And I also think it will create massive opportunities for potential other M&A. So both early stage and potentially business that are getting real traction. So that's the way we think about it. I hope it answers your question.

The next question is from Cesar Tiron Bank of America.

I have 2, if that's okay. The first one is operational and it relates to the pace of reduction in e-commerce losses. Looking at the 2H '23 losses, I wonder if the FY '25 guidance isn't conservative. Maybe you can comment on the trends you are seeing during 1H'24. And so for example, we losses decreased sequentially in 1H'24 as much as a decrease in 2H'23. Just trying to figure out basically if the e-commerce breakeven might happen before at FY'25. That's the first one. The second question is around value creation. So of course, the buyback and the e-commerce breakeven will deliver value, but does management contemplate other sort-out measures. So for example, in the past, the company has unbundled assets. Is that something which you might consider in the future?

Yes. Thanks, Cesar. And what I suggest is that I will answer your question on are creation, and I will ask Basil to speak more to the pace of profitability improvement in e-commerce. Now I think you're right or in the past, we have unbundled assets when we thought they were maybe no longer be set and MultiChoice was the biggest example of that. I would say, besides the continued buyback and getting the business to profitability, we are very keen to demonstrate and crystallize the value of assets in our portfolio and it could take several forms. It could be an IPO of several of our businesses, which we think is definitely possible when the environment improves. It could also take the form of the sale of assets. It could be M&A, it could be an unbundling. So we really take a perspective on it that we have valuable businesses. Several of them are, I think, in a position to be properly valued by the market and we look at a broad range of ways to crystallize that value and potentially give some of that back to our shareholders. Maybe, Basil, you can take the point around the profitability improvement base.

Thank you, Bob. Hello, everyone, again. So the past year, there was significant work by everyone in the organization to really get us on track for this profitability pivot. And everyone pushed high, and the ambition is always to do as well as we can. And you've seen that in the second half performance where the trading losses decreased by 40% on. So the businesses are growing well. As Bob has outlined in the presentation, and I repeated, and that continued to grow well in the start of the new year. We continue to manage costs well, and we remain focused on driving that profitability measure as soon as possible. Of course, there's lots of volatility in the market, and it's difficult to predict. So our focus -- we've said that we have significantly increased confidence in achieving that number. And our focus is on doing it as soon as possible. We don't give guidance as you know. So that's about as much I can say on this topic.

Can I just also ask, does will it involve either shutting down or selling more businesses. So for example, I think we've seen some news around potentially selling you outside of India notes that was confirmed or not by the company. But in any case, the breakeven target, does it require selling or shutting down additional assets? Or is it all kind of organically?

No, it doesn't require the setting we not done on assets.

The next questions from Christopher Daman of HSBC.

A quick one on the last one, just as a follow-up to keep is smooth. I understand you don't want to give a specific guidance, but could you at least comment on whether the savings that you'll have from no longer having a lot that, OLX, all those will be reinvested or not. That will be interesting. A quick one also on the 43% share that losses you have in will keep in Prosus. Can you maybe talk about the intentions? Is there sort of a self-imposed lockup or anything? Any color on that going forward post year would be interesting. And then the final one, if I may, on the stake increase in Delivery Hero. 29.9%, obviously quite a magical number, if I might say so. What we said that you believe is not is undervalued. Can you get a little bit more color on what the strategy for the investment is, if possible?

Yes. So thanks for the questions. I think on the first question, when will we reinvest the savings from OLX, but the plan is to not do that. So that's a short answer. Then on the 2 other points in Basil, if you mind commenting on the 43% share and our intentions there. And maybe I can say a bit around Delivery Hero and Larry, I would love for you to jump in as well. You will have indeed seen that we've come to at below 30%. We have actually a lot of conviction around Delivery Hero, and we think that the business is on a good path to profitability. We also believe that, that growth that has obviously been impacted by lapping effect is foundationally actually quite strong. And we do think the market doesn't give sufficient product to the strength of the asset. That's why we bought more. It is not -- we -- if we would go over the 30% it would trigger a variety of effects that would make it a very different story and that's why we're at this point. But Larry, maybe you want to say something more about it?

No, I think you've covered it well, and we continue to be impressed by the execution of the team and the strategic vision and going any further with an entirely different set of considerations. So I think you covered it well.

And then on the 43%, no, we have no intentions of changing that. So that will remain as it is post the unwind.

Is it possible on the last point to get a bit more color whether there is any sort of agreement that's been put in place maybe with [indiscernible] or anyone that you can share at this point?

Yes. So if you -- for those who aren't aware, right, in South Africa, the filings that you make with the cab are confidential as are the responses. So we're not actually allowed to discuss the filing itself or the response.

The next question is from William Pate of [indiscernible].

Firstly, I wanted to talk through market perception of your Tencent sell-down and buyback strategy. I think it's fair to summarize that for investors that know the process story well, the sell-down and buyback is very popular and help reduce the discount. However, when I speak to Tencent holders, particularly in Asia, those possible skepticism, they worry that process is pursuing a strategy closer to SoftBank Holdings and gradually heading for the exit. Prosus selling will therefore be a semi-premium overhead on Tencent, which is pressure in their share price and internal drag on prices. Do you have any comments to reassure those investors? For example, would you stop the sell-down of the discount reached a certain level? Could you comment on that level? And then the second question is, there have been various press reports of you exploring exits beyond OLX Autos within your classified segment. Could you comment on how you see your classified portfolio in the medium to long term? Which geographies and segments are you looking to retain exposure to, either Eastern Europe or not also versus GenAI classified, et cetera?

Yes. Sure, I'll take both of those. Actually Olivia couldn't join the call, otherwise, I would hand the classified question to her. When it comes to Classifieds, so, yes, there were a few rumors in the market a while ago. The rumors were exactly that rumors, which is why we typically just don't comment on them. I think Basil actually covered it well. The OLX business that we retain is a significant business. It is growing much ahead of its peers. It has both a very strong horizontal but also very strong verticals in actually all the key markets it is in. And it has good margins and it's able to increase those margins at above market growth. That's the kind of assets we love. And I think it's a variable asset that fits well in the group, and we have a lot of confidence in the leadership team because frankly, just to call it out, it's been obviously a rough year with the invasion of Ukraine. The changes the [indiscernible] to the team, the fact that we have to sell our retail business than the decision around audits, but the team have worked through it really well has retained exceptional motivation and have delivered excellent results on the business that we have and the future looks really bright. Now then on the market perception of the open-ended buyback program, I'm aware that there are some rumors around that. What I can say and Basil and Ervin can comment is that we love our Tencent stake. The reason why we do the open and the buyback is to make use of a market inefficiency that helps us create value for shareholders. And in fact, on a per share basis, which is in the end what matters, our shareholders have more exposure to Tencent, not less. And this really matters to us, right? We believe firmly that the Chinese consumer Internet market remains to be the most exciting place -- one of the most exciting places in the world to deploy capital. And we think Tencent is going to be exceptionally well in that context. So the program doesn't in any way reflect on our views in Tencent. We will be very large shareholders for a long time, and there is no intention whatsoever to do anything like what SoftBank has done because we believe in the business, and we actually are increasing the per share exposure.

The next question is from Andrew Ross of Barclays.

I want to ask you a quick comments within Delivery. Is very good program both in terms of growth and margin on this bit of our business. Can you talk about your expectations into FY '24 and whether we should expect the core come-off business to be profitable on a stand-alone basis as we go through this year? And then more broadly, can you talk about how we see the space globally. What have you learned through this year around the viability of this business model on the [indiscernible] and then across your various investments, what is your confidence that this will be a [indiscernible] going forward.

Yes. Thanks, Andrew, for the question. It would be a miss not to ask Larry to talk through expenses everywhere on this business. So Larry, do you want to give on nontender.

Yes, happy to give it a spin. I think the -- we tend to talk about this state like it's the same model everywhere. And I think the commerce begin to shorten, but really we're talking about grocery. And I think we see the model play out differently depending on the geography. I think it's important to remember, we covered some of this on the Investor Day that this is structurally a local business. So the version of Quick commerce that you might see with a food and that would be in terms of who's picking the order who's packing it and delivering it. And frankly, the nature of the inventory would -- might be different than what you would see in Swiggy's version of Quick commerce or Delivery heroes operate some of the companies that were not invested it's a structurally innovative local business. And in the case of iFood, iFood explored on the margin, more of the marketplace type model that leverages grocery -- external grocery and logistics providers that allows for different economics than you might see in other markets. So I think as a general rule, we do see half the profitability for the model, but the form of the model will take this differed by year.

And if I may add something to that. I think one of the other learnings that we have, and I think it's a profound one is that sort of if you are a stand-alone pure-play quick commerce player, it is a tough model to make profitable. If you are a food delivery company that is going into grocery, you have all the customers already because they are the same customers that order food from you. You also have a very well-established logistics network that you can leverage and you don't have to build on scratch. So I would say the other learning that we have, which I think pretty much hops everywhere, Larry, is that you have a massive advantage if you have a strong food delivery footprint and you go into the grocery delivery business.

Yes, sort of leading on to the hard work of figuring out who the valuable customers are in the food delivery side and that the value of the neighborhoods are and how best to serve them. So that gives a huge leg up versus people that are starting from scratch.

The next question is from Lisa Yang from Goldman Sachs.

I have a few more questions, please. I think, Basil, you commented earlier about some of the trend that you've seen, for instance, e-commerce, and you said is now seeing a better sort of your trading performance. I'm just wondering if you could make similar comments for maybe the rest of the portfolio, how maybe the macro is currently affecting our operations. And obviously, we did enter a much easier comp -- when it comes to rate post communization. Should we expect an acceleration in growth even for '24? That's the first question. The second question is, Bob, I think you mentioned in the past several times that pilot valuations of the way too high relative to public. I'm wondering if you could maybe give us an update and at what point do you actually may see maybe more opportunities were coming out, whether it's in quite public and which segment today will probably look the sort of undervalued to you. And the third question is, you have a stake in later on because you want to expand outside of China. I think there just entering call, then it feels like an investor day get now continued to stop there and my extent ouster international. I'm just thinking, given your presence in international partner expertise and obviously in '20, do you think there might be ways to sort of collaborate with them going forward?

Yes, Lisa, thanks for the questions. Basil, I think I'll leave the first one to you to answer without giving guidance. So good luck with that. And I will have a stab at the second. So let me start with MATE1, we think MATE1 is actually a great company besides some international expansion, I think there the progress in China has been really, really strong, excellent execution. So we, at this point in time, are supported. There's been increasing contact between the companies that we have a relatively small stake there. So it's a very different relationship than the one we have with Tencent, where we are on the board and we are very close links at every level of the company. But we see it's a great and well-run business. Can I maybe say a little bit more about the private valuations. I think the -- if I look at public markets, I still think there are pockets of undervaluation. And food, as an example, I think public food companies are undervalued, Deliver Hero in particular because they have fantastic assets that are improving well and growing serving the public markets we see it. In private markets, the dynamic where we've seen a lot of fundraising while rates were low and money was flush. That hasn't entirely shaken out, I would say. So what I see is that many companies that raise that high valuations basically have managed to not raise capital. The ones that did have to raise capital typically have seen a fairly significant haircut to their valuations. I think in the next sort of 6 months, I expect that situation to occur more often for companies that have previously raised that are running towards the end of the funding they have put aside. We're going to have to come back to market. And then I do think we'll see further correction in private valuation because a lot of it has actually not shaken out. But maybe Ervin, you want to comment because you spend a lot of your time on this particular topic.

Happy to, Bob, I think you said it well already the market has not fully adjusted in the private setting, and we expect it will as to whether it's 6 months or 12 months or look the precise timing and it the game really knows. There are a number of good businesses out there and we have a lot of gross cash on our balance sheet, but we'll be mentation to wait for the opportunities that are most effective for us.

And then Lisa on your first question, I'll take a couple of things. So first of all, it's impossible to predict how the macro trend to impact the world over the next year. We don't know where interest rates against the set. We don't know where inflation is going to settle. We don't know what's going to happen in geopolitics. So it's an impossible thing to try and predict. But what we do want to do is sustain the trends that we've been delivering in the [indiscernible] one of those. One is we want to continue to outgrow our peers. So if there was impacted and growth slows down, what you will see from our business as you said, they continue to meaningfully outgrow and outperform their peers. Then from there, we've set plans for the rate. And we are still very early in the year with basically almost 3 months into the year, and the businesses are hitting those plans, both on the top line and the bottom line. So we're confident. And I think that's about as much as I can say. One, we don't issue guidance, but even if we do, it's impossible for people to predict given everything that's going on in the world right now.

Next question is from [indiscernible].

Great. I want to ask you more about your on generative AI and investments there. If you could give us more color on which areas you've been investing in and are most interested into your business? And separately, slightly linked to Stack Overflow what they're doing in that space? Because I guess that's the one where there's potentially sort of most near-term impact that on generative AI. Secondly, on Delivery Hero, it looks like you increased the state from what I could see more recently between December and March. I wondered if you could give us a bit more detail on the timing of that and what the highest price as you pay in the last 6-month period. And then finally, just on the balance of your portfolio really where you're selling Tencent in a sort of measured way at steady pace and you're planning to crystallize value of unlisted assets. That, I guess, means the balance pullout further towards Tencent theoretically. So I wondered if you could give us a bit more of an idea of the pipeline of businesses you've got in ventures. Previously, it's been quite obvious about where could come in through or food delivery, it seems less obvious now. So just if you could give us an idea of what you see kind of true things interesting from a scalability perspective.

Yes. That was 4 questions. So let me try to answer or ask for an answer on all of them. Let me start with the rest. So I think what is important to say when it comes to crystallizing, crystallizing doesn't actually mean that we get out of things, right? To also be a listing, it could be a merger, it could take several different forms. So the idea that we're exiting businesses at scale is not necessarily the right conclusion. So if we -- for example, the list, one of our businesses in the next 12 months, we probably not get out completely, but rather to the business on its own legs and remain a significant shareholder to make sure we benefit. So I think that's one point. The other thing I would call out is Ventures actually has been steadily investing in some magnificent companies that's been in a number of exciting areas, but in particular, also in one very citing geography, which is India. If you look at the capital that the Ventures team has deployed the vast majority of it has been deployed in India. And if you take sort of the top 10 of the most exciting poses growing start-ups in India that are still private. I think we're probably in 7 out of 10 of those. And frankly, I could talk about them for hours, but we don't have ours, if I call out one, I think Meesho, for example, is a spectacular business that has -- in terms of the number of active users actually surpassed both Flipkart and Amazon in a very short amount of time to start the growth and very rapidly improving unit economics then there's business like elastic run arbiters. We have the urban company, which is doing something very unique, which is getting to scale. There's farm easy, which we're very excited about. So we've deployed a lot of capital into highly promising Indian business, where I think we'll see a lot of scaling in the next few years. And I think we also see the value of those companies actually rise cost significantly over the next couple of years. And we continue to look for new opportunities with the Ventures being still very, very active. Now on Delivery Hero, I think we can be -- I think -- we don't disclose the information, so I don't think I can give you more color on that. Let me talk a bit more about generative AI. So what I think about generative AI is that it is a -- and I mentioned it earlier when we talked about firepower, I think it's going to be a generational shift in technology that we'll do a number of things. I think it will increase productivity in many, many parts of the -- of any profession in if well adopted, we intend to be on the absolute forefront of that. And with our first on products, we are actually at the absolute forefront of it. I think it will also improve not just productivity but will improve business models, like what we're starting to see happen with -- in our food and in other businesses. The business model will adjust to incorporate AI elements, and it will become foundationally better as a result of it. And then the third category, which I think will be very interesting from an investment point of view is new companies or newer companies or that are going to use GenAI to disrupt existing business models in the space there. And the same way as Uber has changed the Taxi business, the way that Spotify has changed the music business. I think we will see a generation of new companies somehow that are formed now that will still in the next few years, that will be the new challengers to existing business models that will not be able to deliver on what GenAI can do for the world. Because I think the step change in technology is probably even larger than that of the mobile phone is probably the order to the magnitude of the Internet. So that changes ahead. There will be new winners and those new winners of the companies we're looking for. Then maybe, Larry, I've been talking too much already, but very excited about this topic. But Larry, you can say a little bit more about what is going on with that also.

Yes, happy to. First, I think you touched on a lot of the are specifically, we think that GenAI is going to be an important evolution how developers work and learn in the future helping them to be more efficient and also learn new techniques, whether in flow core. We think the -- the developer community can say a crucial role in how AI evolve would accelerate. Ultimately, with the community being helpful in ensuring the quality of GenAI offerings. And Stack itself sees is bringing the power of its developer community, and it's important to remember this is they have assembled one of the biggest developer communities in the world, bringing that community together with the technology power of AI with the goal of creating highly trusted solutions to technology problems. And the team is working and launching a variety of the AI solutions and more to come there.

Yes. I think that's helpful, Larry. Like sort of user feedback to improve models is one of the essential ingredients to the quality of GenAI. And when you have 100 million users that are critically looking at your content that it's a tremendous asset in building the best GenAI solutions in the technology space. And what is also important to call out is that Stack Overflow has an absolute wealth of proprietary data on how suffer developers solve problems, right? There's no other company that has the wealth and the depth to data on how developers who are confronted with an issue actually go through different subs to solve it, which should be probably one of the most valuable data assets to actually build the best GenAI software engineering solutions.

The next question is from Warwick Bam of Morgan Stanley.

Good afternoon, everyone. I've just got a few first topic probably for Basil, in terms of cash flows. OLX Auto has been a large cash drive in the business, especially when you look at the disclosure, excluding all the color for 2023. But do you still need to contribute further cash to OLX Auto prior to sale? Or can we consider the $380 million non-repeat item. And then just on the same topic, just in terms of other one-off items -- and then some restructuring costs, some of which fall into the prior year, some of which fall into 2024. Can you call out any one-off items which could assist us in understanding the sustainability of that $30 million cash outflow, excluding OLX Auto. And then lastly, just a simple question on the removal of the cross holding structure. Does the proposal to shareholders require an ordinary or special resolution? Thanks.

Basil, I think these are many questions for you and maybe the last question is one for David, David is on the call?

Yes. I'll take the first 2, and then David can deal with the vote. So, on the cash flows, remember, we haven't fully exited and OLX Auto is again concerned. So yes, there is cash consumption in the current year. And what that will be in the half will be will really be driven by how we actually engineer the exit. So that's an ongoing process. And I can't really give you a definitive number until we have a definitive outcome. On the one-off, of course, there were one-off in the prior financial year, particularly with regard to retrenchment costs and other restructuring costs. And again, how it plays out this year also depends on how the exit in OLX Autos plays out. But I think the largest chunk of that has already been captured in H2. And what we hope to see from here is a fairly stable operating environment as things stand up. Of course, there are changes, things change, and that's why it's very hard to give a firm guidance. So overall, the bulk of the process happened last year. There may be a bit this year depending on how things play out, and then we have a fairly stable operating environment.

Thanks, Basil, very helpful. So David is actually on the call that he is in the listen-only mode. So he can't answer question. Luckily, there are several other people who then and Ervin, maybe you can cover the question. While we can't ask David.

I think to do that, Bob, for the process vote. The answer is it's a simple majority vote. That's the process for masters, there will be certain matters that [indiscernible] so the answer differs by Prosus versus Naspers. This will all be made out of course, crystal clearly the shareholders, sectors that go out ahead of vote.

Thank you very much. We have time for one more question, I guess?

Then our last question will be from Silvia Biscaldi.

I just have one follow-up on the classic target business. Can you provide any even more context on the futility decision to exit OLX Auto in review for this segment? [indiscernible] here is beyond the needed impact to profitability to also consider exiting since it is impossible to improve the consumer experience adding transactional features with the capital live going forward that some of your peers are doing?

Yes. Thanks, Silvia, for the question. It's actually, I think, a very pertinent one. So -- and I spoke about it actually quite a bit in the last few days. I think what happened with the OLX Auto business was -- 2 things at the same time. One, cost of capital went up a lot. And as you indicated, like this business model typically has a certain level of inventory. And particularly if you want to improve your margins having a certain level of inventory and doing the sales of the vehicles yourself rather than being fully asset-light. It is actually really helpful. So when cost of capital went up a lot, I think the economics of the business model deteriorated. And I do think that if you go much more asset light, you will potentially have a consumer experience issue, as you indicate. But I think what you also will have is that it's harder to generate the margin that you require to achieve profitability in the model. The other thing that obviously happened sort of in the post-pandemic year was that second half car prices came down quite meaningfully, which means that even if you manage to run at similar gross margins, you end up with lower sales price, so therefore, with less metal margin to work with, which also puts real pressure on the ability to cover fixed cost. So with all those factors combined, we believe that the business case has just been significantly eroded and we were better off extent there is no traction in several of the business have traction and consumers like it, but the economics have been made much more tough. Chris. I think that was our last question. So okay, I'll close from here. First of all, I really appreciate that people take the time for this because we also take a lot of time to try to do best to present it. Great questions today. It was a turbulent year, and I'm very proud of the progress we made. I think we are on the right path to really strengthen the company and deliver excellent returns, and we will continue with our open-ended share repurchase program. We will look to better evidence and tested the value of our assets will continue to be huge believers in the potential upside there. We plan to get the circular out that details, the simplification to the elimination of the cross holding, and we really appreciate your support to get that approved. And with that, I want to thank you all and wish you a great morning, afternoon or evening, the timing where you are.

Thank you very much, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, this now concludes today's event. You may now disconnect.