Nath Bio-Genes (India) Limited (NATHBIOGEN) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q4 FY '24 Earnings Conference Call of Nath Bio-Genes, hosted by Go India Advisors. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Deepika Sharma from Go India Advisors. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am.

Thank you, Muskan. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to the Q4 FY '24 Earnings Call of Nath Bio-Genes Limited. We have on the call Mr. Satish Kagliwal, Managing Director; Mr. Devinder Khurana, Chief Financial Officer; Mr. Harish Pandey, Business Lead; Dr. Venkatesh Kulkarni, Research Lead. We must remind you that the discussion on today's call may include certain forward-looking statements and must be therefore viewed in conjunction with the risk that company faces. May I now request the management to take us through the financials and the business outlook subsequent to which we will open the floor for Q&A. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Deepika. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to our earnings conf call for the financial year '24. I'm Satish Kagliwal, MD of the company. Financial year '24 hence has been a very satisfying year, full of growth and achievement. As you are aware, Nath Seeds has been investing heavily in R&D, all through our inception. Our country have developed innovative products and high performance seeds, which have resulted in more yield and revenue for the farmers. Every INR 1 invested in agri research yield a return of INR 13.85, surpassing returns from all other activities linked to farming. This is as per a study conducted by NIAP an entity of ICAR, Indian Council of Agricultural Research. This only emphasizes the impact agriculture research has on the agriculture productivity and agriculture as a whole. We are very happy that we have been investing in agriculture research since our inception. Our diversified product basket delivered strong performance during the year, starting with our top brand cotton hybrids, Sanket and Jambo, they grew both in volume and value terms. Our product portfolio witnessed -- our value product portfolio witnessed new unique additions like Khushi and Dhadak Gold this year. Our growing portfolio comprising of top performing bajra seeds, wheat and maize seeds perform exceptionally well. Overall, non-cotton non-paddy portfolio is delivering in line with our stated strategy. We enhanced our vegetable portfolio this year and added several new products. Our premium products like tomato akhand and hybrid chili Rana continue to be top ranked in their category. We further strengthened our vegetable team and have a new lead now. In order to bring enhanced focus on marketing, we have clubbed all 3 verticals that is field crop, vegetable, and plant health nutrition under one marketing lead. This will ensure synergy and collaborative working, resulting in enhanced reach and sales. Win Chi Win continues to perform and delivered a strong growth of 34% during the year. We added 2 new organic fertilizers to our portfolio WINall Granules and WINPro GOLii, both are a much needed plant nutrition supplements. Consequent to the approval of our BT Gene in Philippines, I;m not talking about exports, subsequent to the approval of our BT Gene in Philippines last year, we have successfully conducted demonstrations of our hybrids this year. Currently the crop is in harvesting stage. We have begun trials and seek production activity, we will take a start through our joint venture there. This is a very small beginning, but we expect to grow many folds in near future. While we continue to make good progress at these locations, our efforts in other locations, which should be Africa have been getting impacted on account of geopolitical uncertainty. We continue to invest in infrastructure facilities like warehouses, conditioning godown and processing plants. Ferns seeds are indeed the foundation of life and has an impact on everything, practically everything, the food we eat, the clothes we wear, for example. As Nath Seeds, we are committed to delivering high quality seeds for farmers through continuous improvement and innovation. We'll continue to build a pipeline of exceptional products and strengthen our market share by maintaining our strong financial position and balance sheet. We are hopeful of much better growth in years to come, in very near future. I would like to thank all our stakeholders and look forward to their continued support. With this, I would like to hand over to Mr. Khurana for his comments. Mr. Khurana?

Thank you, Kagliwal sir. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for joining us today. Our earnings presentation has been uploaded on the exchanges and I am sure you would have seen the same. Before I discuss the financial performance in detail I would like to talk about operating highlights of FY '24. We are consistently delivering on our stated strategy of expanding non-cotton, non-paddy portfolio. During FY '24, the company witnessed the growth of NCP portfolio to INR 1,407 million, INR 140 crores against INR 131 crores of last year, clocking a growth of around 7% and accounting for 44% of the top line. We have high-ranking cotton products and the company continues to maintain a steadfast focus on this crop. In FY '24, the company sold 16.06 lakh cotton packets marking an year-to-year increase of 16.39%. Regarding paddy, the proportion of research to hybrid is [ 75 is to 25 ] volume-wise, However, the value ratio is [ 59 is to 41 ]. The average per kg realization of hybrid paddy is almost doubled than that of research paddy. This, I would like to highlight was what we are contemplating a year, 2 years back that we would like to pay more emphasis on hybrid paddy for lesser volumes and more value. The company's strategic emphasis on promoting hybrid paddy with improved margin remains on course. The emphasis on bajra is strong. Our star product, Super-27 is performing extremely well, led by this product, the bajra segment grew by 25.98% in value, and 15.51% in volume. PNS segment has also recorded a good growth with the value and volumes, both growing by 35% plus over the last year. Apart from this, the maize segment grew by 40.56%. Wheat segment grew by 26.86%, although their contribution to the top line is only 7%. However, we are sure of these products contributing even more to the top line in years to come. Moving on to the financial performance for FY '24. The top line grew by 10.43% to INR 332 crores over FY '23. The gross margin also exceeded 55% during the year as compared to earlier years. I would like to reiterate that we have been maintaining a gross margin of around 53%, 54%, 55% over the last few years. The FY '24 EBITDA stands at INR 510 million. The company's profit after tax increased by 16.8% against FY '23 to INR 411 million. Our working capital position is also improving with stocks and debtors witnessing better controls. This year, we closed with a positive operational cash flow of INR 74.70 crores. We continue to maintain a zero long-term debt position. And lastly, I would like to tell you that we had our first rainfall in Aurangabad today. It's a good omen. And let's not worry about the Sensex falling as long as the rain is falling, we are here to stay. With that, I would like to now open the floor to questions. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] First question is from the line of Majid Ahamed Smart Sync Investment Advisors.

Am I audible?

Yes, please.

Very good set of numbers, sir. So my first question is, can you provide insights into the performance of Nath Bio-Genes hybrid paddy varieties rice compared to conventional varieties, particularly in terms yield which is persistent in quality.

Can you be slightly louder, please?

Can you provide insights into your performance of Nath Bio-Genes hybrid varieties compared to conventional varieties, particularly in terms of yield this is persistent in quality?

Are you looking for numbers or you're looking for products? It's not clear.

Products, products, products.

Numbers, sir. Numbers, especially in terms of especially in terms of yield.

Manish, you can talk about yield difference and [indiscernible].

Yes, sir, about.

They are asking about Dhadak Gold?

Dhadak Gold, Dhadak Gold, yes, that's right.

Let me first give the basic. Like I said that we have been emphasizing on hybrid paddy for the reserve because it gives better margin. And in that, I said that value-wise, it is 60-40, RS versus hybrid viz-a-viz volume being 75-45 RS versus hybrid right? Now I will request Mr. Harish Pandey who is our business lead for all the verticals to tell us something about the product that we have in [indiscernible] paddy and how they are how they are performing into the market, Harish, please?

Good evening all. As far as product Dhadak gold will be around 2 years back, the performance over the competition, best competition hybrid, is [indiscernible] 7% to 8% is more the market leader, number one. Number two is, look wise, it's better than any hybrid is there in the marketplace. Number three, the size of the grain, which is highly acceptable in the government, all the societies and all. So there are commercial advantage, there is yield advantage and there is a look-wise advantage. So overall, all the 3 things is covered. I hope I'm -- it is clear to everyone.

Okay. Okay. So the second question is, how are you looking at the export markets? How do you see going for upcoming out you're looking at [indiscernible]?

Your voice is echoing, so not very clear to us. [indiscernible] the speakerphone.

Yes, sir. Sir, am I audible.

Slightly better.

Sir, how do you see like -- how are you looking at the export markets, eventually what is your future outlook in that market going forward? How are you planning a strategy doing the marketing here?

Satish sir, would you like to please.

Actually, let me just tell you about export of Indian seeds, India -- Indian -- export of Indian seeds in terms of total worldwide seeds is very [indiscernible]. Although there is a big potential for India to be exporting these globally because we have -- we can be their good producer, which we can be producing economically. We have diverse climate conditions. So there is a region for Indian seed companies to export practically all kind of seed. And so this is where we began our activity, we've chosen a few countries and few products, which are -- which are capable. We also are now especially breeding for certain countries in certain crops. What is required is to find out what is bigger in those countries than timing also, develop the products productivity and then also passing through what is called a required regulatory approval in all those countries. Some countries are very stringent about regulatory control, some countries or not. So we have to make like a plan and then this is how we are looking forward to it. I mean we want to penetrate few countries with 3 of our top products, which is like a dent. And also not only dent, let's say, it will make impact in those economies by growing these, let's say productivity of the farmers in those countries. That's the, let's say, our business plan as far as exports is concerned.

Sir, could you give more specifics, which country are targeting or just one, one for paddy?

Okay. See, on such context to discuss business country-wise and all that, I think it will not be practical and may not be proper also because it may be personal discussion. But let me tell you, we are targeting countries in all the continents one by one. So, our strength is cotton. So we are taking cotton, else is rice in some countries. Our strength is in vegetables, we are taking vegetables to certain countries. So choosing the countries based on the product strength -- or product treatment, I would say, product suitability. And that is how we are achieving. We are expanding. We're expanding that rapidly. We are very small at the moment, but we have to be a bit clear in the next 5 years' time.

If I can add to this question, to add a little specific less. We already declared that we were in Philippines. The government regulation had taken quite a bit of time. But finally, they have come through because our product is the best there. We are talking of cotton. So demonstration plots were sent this year. We are very sure they will go through, so maybe we can talk of regular sales next year onwards. As far as Uzbekistan is concerned, I have already declared that we have a joint venture in Uzbekistan, and we are the 90% stakeholder. And in that, we are trying to be -- not trying, we have taken up cotton production this year. If that succeeds, sky is the limit. As far as smaller countries are concerned, we are into Egypt. We are into Bangladesh, we are into Myanmar. Others like Kagliwal sir said, we are exploring other revenues as and when they happen, we will take them through.

Okay, sir, thanks for your explanation. Final -- so my final question is, what is your target next year? What is your target revenue growth...?

We are expecting top line growth of around -- and we've been very conservative, but we are expecting a top line growth of around 15% to 20% and trying to take up the net profit, like it went up by about 1%, 1.5% this year, so maybe another one. So that's it. Conservative approach. If things happen if the monsoon behave, we have fantastic products, which are lined up in the system, be it cotton, be it bajra, be it maize, be it mustard, be it wheat, be it vegetables or even our supplements for that matter. So we are currently geared up for around 15% to, say, 20% of top line. The rest, everything depends on Lord Indra.

The next question is from the line of Devangi Patel from Fintrust Capital.

Am I audible?

Yes.

Okay. Sir, we've seen newer cold storage facilities, warehouses and commissioning godowns, the capacity has increased. So I just wanted to ask you what has been the CapEx for all of these? And do we have any planned CapEx going forward?

Mr. Patel, let me tell you, I have made this point very clear. We are not very keen about putting in CapEx. The godowns, the facilities are available at dime a dozen on a rental basis. We'd go into long-term lease with these people. And if we don't like it, we have a right to change. Otherwise, if we put our own CapEx, I have to maintain even in the nonseasonal times, and this gets into my bottom line, which I personally do not like. We have facilities for cold storages for godowns, for processing. And these people are trained to do only that particular job. So we normally do not do much as far as the CapEx is in -- our CapEx in real estate is concerned.

All right, Understood. And another -- the last question I had is, looking ahead what trajectory do we anticipate for the working capital cycle over, let's say, next 2 to 3 years? And also, what strategies are we planning to implement to mitigate its length?

Working capital cycle, if you go through last 4, 5 years, it has been improving year by year. The debtor days is coming down and the stock days are also coming down. They had gone up a little beyond the comfortable limits during COVID, because for 2 years, we had production and sales return coming back together, leading into the increased inventory and debtors and things like that. . We did say 3 years back that now that the COVID is over, we'll be able to bring it down. Today, the working capital cycle has improved. The stock has come down number of days-wise, although quantity-wise, it will go up because of next year's sales, and debtors have also reduced. One, we have been giving operating cash flow positive over the last 3 years now. This year, it is almost about INR 75 crores, INR 80 crores. Now this is also pursuant to the acceptance of the product in the market, where in the market people are able to get handsome amount of advanced bookings against our products, which also gives us a very, very boosted cash flows. So I think working capital is now not a concern, which it was 3 years back. We are on track.

The next question is from the line of Kunal from Counter PMS.

I'm Guneet from Counter-Cyclical PMS. Am I audible?

Yes, yes.

Yes. So basically, I would want to understand the outlook for cotton seeds for FY '25. And are we still facing shortages in terms of the supply of cotton seeds?

We will take this question in two parts. I will give you that -- like we are maintaining a top line, expected top line of around 20% plus in cotton. This year also we got around 17%. Our products like Sanket case and Jambo, they are doing extremely well, and we have other products coming up in pipeline. So as far as our acceptability of the product is concerned, that is not an issue. Whatever we are able to produce, we are able to sell. Now you raised the second part of the question regarding availability of cotton. In that, I would request Kagliwal sir to throw some light on that.

I think it's a very, very interesting and relevant question. You seem to have studied the seed industry very well. The seed industry is currently is passing through a phase when supply of seeds becomes a challenge. The farmers are -- if they do want to produce seeds then there is the average of monsoon, fluctuating monsoons is reducing the yield affecting their economics. And secondly, there is a huge shortage of labor, farm labor, which is requiring large numbers for seed production activity. Most of the seed production activity requires more manual labor, this cross pollination, et cetera. So -- and the biggest hit appears to be in cotton. The areas required is to be too much, although we are producing cotton seed in 8 different states in the country. Everywhere the challenge appears to be the same. And farmers are also having alternative options of not going to seed production and yet getting the good revenue by commercial cultivation of cotton itself for that matter as a crop. So we are having -- facing challenges -- the industry is facing challenges. We are making all around efforts to the newer areas and enhance yields and all our efforts in [indiscernible] practices. But we expect shortage of seeds, cotton seed this year in the current year overall for the industry and which will be the same case with us. We are -- we will not be able to supply the total quantity really in demand part from our seeds. Have I answered your question, sir?

So this year also forecast is that we will face shortages is what I understand.

There's overall shortage.

There is overall shortage, all right. But this overall shortage does not seem to impact the company performance by -- I mean is that the correct...

Yes, yes, we'll balance it out. We balance it out.

You see, we said that cotton we are keeping a focus of around 20%. That is keeping in mind the product performance, the availability of the product, the acceptability of the product. So if that goes through, we will maintain this. If somehow the miracles happen and the availability the increases, Mr. Harish Pandey is sitting right next to me, says you give me 100 lakh packets, you will go and sell 100 lakh packets. No issues.

Got it. So I mean what -- apart from the acceptability of our products, I mean, what are the steps is the company taking into, I mean, mitigate this -- this shortage in seeds that we are looking at?

Yes. So that Mr. Kagliwal has said that we are going to newer areas and we are trying to keep people -- see, we have growers who have been up with us for quite some time, and they are very, very faithful to the company. So not only he said everybody is facing that challenge, but that challenge is not going to take away the cotton being the mainstay of kharif crop. So it's okay. It can be taken care of in a conservative fashion, I think we should be good.

The next question is from the line of Aman Jain from Orion Capital.

Two questions.

Mr. Aman, you are not audible.

You can take the next one. He can fall back in the queue. No problem.

So the next question is from the line of Kush Shah from Niveshaay Investments.

Am I audible?

Very.

Actually, I had a couple of questions. First would be, can we expect any new product launches in the next 3 years as we have also added peas and cucumber?

He is expecting whether we expect pipeline products over the next 3 years.

Like cucumber. Okay. Okay. Okay. Like cucumber, okay. So we have a series of pipeline products waiting to be launched. They have to go through what is called the evaluation and testing phase. And so we have many products in pipeline. We have production in pipeline, we have tomato, we have chili, hot pepper. We have products in cucumber in pipeline. Also, we have production of bhindi, that is okra, and a couple of vegetables. We have several products in pipeline.

Okay. So after launching a successful product, how long does it take for its full potential to be realized in the market?

So 2 to 3 years.

It's just to be sold in a step-by-step process. So it gradually build up. And again, different than marketing effort and the need of the product in the market. And how we market them. So 3 years' time, which is [indiscernible].

So according to the expansion or for the growth purpose, which segment do you anticipate will drive growth in the future?

Bajra, maize and vegetable and supplement with a constant focus on paddy and cotton.

So how do we plan to optimize the crop mix going forward?

We are well aware of the potential of each crop, each territory, each market, each potential, each yield, okay? So when we make a marketing budget, then we see the availability as well as the acceptability of each products in each different place. Based on that, we make the marketing budget, which is going to capture the potential of each and every product that we put into the market. It's a regular affair for us.

Okay. Fair. And my last question would be, how is the working capital cycle has improved?

I just answered that in the last question. I hope you are there.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Hrithik from Concept Investwell.

So my question is regarding pheromone waste products. So there's not [indiscernible] Sanket have that goes into high building cotton crops. So there are pheromone waste products which help to keep paying [indiscernible] always from a site. And you have mentioned that there is Sanket [indiscernible]. So if assuming that you use Sanket. So is it like the farmers don't have to use pheromone -- pheromone waste products at all? Or it's like you are to also use Sanket and also use pheromone waste products [indiscernible]?

So would you -- would Dr. Kulkarni like to answer this.

Yes, I think this.

Kulkarni, sir?

The pheromone waste product, see, for pink bollworm, we're telling about pink bollworm. For pink bollworm, there are a lot of approaches to PB ropes and there is a mask entrapping through pheromones. One of the technology is mask entrapping of pheromones -- bollworm [indiscernible] so pheromones practice. As of now, pink bollworm is less affected by -- sorry, Sanket is less affected by pink bollworm because of its nonpreference basis. So we are finding its growth in the coming years because of some special features.

Okay. And sir, any color on competition from the illegal BT cotton involved? And what is your impact on the market system?

Harish, sir. Hello?

Harish.

Illegal BT cotton.

Okay.

Harish will say.

Yes.

So what is exactly the question?

Whether the [indiscernible] illegal BT cotton in the market?

Okay. So illegal cotton BT impact would be there, definitely because it is coming from Gujarat and other states to like Maharashtra, MP and [indiscernible]. The impact would be like last year, there was around 40 lakh to 50 lakh packets sales. And this year, we are expecting the almost similar kind of infiltration in the same area. So definitely, there would be impact because few states where the cotton acreages may go down, it will impact more. But there are states where cotton acreages were going up, where it may not impact.

Okay sir. I mean are there any steps that you are taking to reduce this?

What? Your point is understood. We cannot take steps to reduce illegal BT cotton because we are not a part of it. This is a government to ensure that the seed industry is not hampered in the national interest by curbing the illegal BT cotton. And I'm told that the government are taking steps to try and make it as less as possible or maybe zero. The only step we can say or give it by giving our products which are better than others so that we continue to grow.

The next question is from the line of Aditya Sen from RoboCapital.

So as you all know, Q1 is the best quarter and we are already halfway through this. So can you please give us an image of how this Q1 is shaping up? How is the demand? And how much revenue do you foresee in this quarter?

Three things you asked. One is how we foresee the quarter. Now that depends on the monsoon. We are an agri-based industry. I said it was a good domain if the monsoons are good, I can assure you that we are placed all over the country, the way we plan to be placed. So if the monsoons behave, our products are available, they will be available on the shelf, and we hope to clock our sales. Top line, I have already given an indication. Our revenues, we will calculate after the first quarter, please.

Okay. All right.

We are well prepared for season.

And then other question in...

We are well prepared for the season. No doubt about that.

Okay. And in another question, you gave a PAT percentage or PAT growth, I missed, you said something 1%, 1.2% net profit.

PAT is INR 41 crores.

No, you were sharing a guidance. You said that revenue growth you are expecting 15% to 20%. And then you answered about PAT. So I missed that part, how much PAT growth you are expecting?

Maybe around 1% notch on this year.

The next question is from the line of Anurag Jain, an individual investor.

Sir, am I audible?

Yes.

Yes.

Sir, my question is, given this situation for the industry at an industry-wide situation that there are supply constraints. So in this situation, the industry should be seeing much lower sales, sales returns of seeds in the coming season in this current season? And in the situation of lower sales returns, will it improve the operating margins as wastage is reduced?

Harish?

Sales return -- our marketing people, they plan for around 15%, it goes up to 20%, 21%. That's natural, okay? Now sales return is not only a question of demand and supply. It is also a question of where the placement happens and whether the monsoon hit that area or not because the window of our sowing is very small. In that window, we have to knock off everything from the shelf. So sales return is a fair to the company as far as seed industry is concerned. But our sales return has been reducing over the last about 3, 4 years, leave 2 years of COVID aside. Our sales return has been improving metes and bounds, that's why we are having a good top line with better margins. We would continue to strive for that, and we will continue to try and achieve that.

And if the sales are less, obviously, we improve our operating margin, no doubt, definitely.

The next question is from the line of Aman Jain from Audience Capital.

Am I audible now?

Definitely, yes, please?

Yes. So I think sir you mentioned in your opening comments, but yes -- can you please again provide us the proportion in basic paddy and hybrid paddy not in terms of volume, but in terms of value -- in value contribution?

Value hybrid is 41% and RS is 59%.

Okay. Okay, sir. And are there any goals or targets that we have to increase the share of value of hybrid paddy?

We start with 50-50.

Okay. Okay, sir. And sir, my next question is, can you provide us some insights on the status of your hybrid seed production for okra and also the number of hybrids that are in trial seed production and also which are in test marketing models?

No. Can you be a little more elaborate. It's a very long question.

Yes. Yes, sure. Yes, sure. Sir, I wanted to get the status on our hybrid sheet production for okra. And also, if you can tell us about the number of products, the number of hybrids that we have that are currently in trial seed production or which are in testing marketing model?

I think giving you the number of products which are in trial seed and marketing model, specifically crop by crop is a very elaborate process. Mr. Kagliwal already said that product reach every crop in trials and in marketing, and it's a very elaborated time testing process that we follow, okay? As far as the okra is concerned, definitely, it is one of our better products in vegetable but then we are also concentrating on tomato, on cucumber, on peas, peas we introduced last year. So the production plans for these are commensurate to the sales plan of these products. And since the varieties are many, I don't think we'll be able to give you variety by variety, crop by crop or production target for this year. I think that will be going a little too deep.

I just answered a little more specifically to that. We have 2 products in okra, which are booking a very, very promising in trial to surpass all the competitive products. There are two kinds of decisions, which are very important. One is yellow line mosaic virus and second is ELCV. So these two are the viruses, which come on okra the breeding has to be for having the resistance or, let's say, good resistance to these 2 viruses. So we have 2 products currently in seed production, which will go into production this season and available for selling also in this year. So we also -- illustrate these products have been tested and trials will be launched this year. These 2 products are there, which are looking very promising, okay?

Got it. Got it, sir, One last question. This is more of a broad question. So can you please give an overview of your plans? Like how do we plan to capitalize on the new additions that we have entered to our portfolio?

Now, again, you are asking very generic questions. We said that we want to continue our focus on paddy and cotton. In paddy, we want to enhance our focus on hybrid and try and bring it 50-50. For cotton, I said, we want to maintain 20% plus, depending upon the availability, if it improves, the cotton will improve. As far as non-field cotton, non-paddy field crops are concerned, we said that we have super product in bajra. We are doing well in maize and wheat as compared to last year. Our mustard products are going on well. With all this, I'm still saying that we target around 15% to 20% growth for next year. Anything beyond that will be a cherry on the cake.

The next question is from the line of Aditya Sen from RoboCapital.

Sir, we took some provisions few years back of around INR 80 crores. So are you seeing any recovery in the same?

This year, if you go through my quarterly results, we have made a dent into this. We were able to recover not much but around INR 3.5 crores or something like that, that crores. Like I made it clear last time also was that we cannot force the farming community to crop up money. But however, we are making adjustments and we are recovering. Some part of adjustment is shrink itself in purchase value wherein whatever we have not recovered, we will be able to reduce the price, but that is also currently this year, it was in March, and we were able to clock around INR 3.5 cr as recovery, which is in shows extraordinary items in the quarterly results. And in the coming year, we hope to make it around INR 10 crores plus. I'm hoping that will be like that.

Okay. And how much bad debt did we book?

This whole thing was provision 3 years back. As far as bad debts are -- this was bad advances for the COVID period which has been well provisioned for 3 years back only. And as far as bad debts are concerned, there is -- again, it will be available in the balance sheet. It will be out in a few days' time. We have a policy that any debt, which is more than 3 years, we make a provision for bad debt. That's it. So my total bad debt, sir, this year was not much, just a few lakhs. And that's it. And they are available, clearly available in the balance sheet.

The next question is from the line of Kunal from Counter Cyclical PMS.

I just want to get one thing clarified. Are you mentioning that you want to maintain 20% plus of total revenue of the company in cotton or 20% plus growth in volumes in cotton in FY '25?

We are basically more concentrated on the values, volume is immaterial. If buy one product gives me double the margin then should -- it is -- so we are not talking about volume. We are talking about values there. Overall, we are hoping around 20% in FY '25. And crop-wise growth -- expected growth I have already given.

20% growth in cotton, right?

In cotton, 20% separately, overall, 15% to 20% separately.

Got it. Sir, just my last question would be, so with the seed shortage that we are facing in the market, the supply of seeds, who would be the main -- I mean, since the company is not looking to get impacted by it. So I mean, are the small players there that would be impacted by it? Or I mean, what is the understanding of the situation?

Satish sir, would you like to, please?

Yes. Actually, all the players will be affected, small or big because of production is done by all the people. Everybody has their own strength area. So everybody will be affected, smaller and big, both. The percentage and the impact would may vary from person to person, from company to company, so it will be varying while companies also, these companies also.

Got it. And sir, when we say we are looking at 20% value growth in cotton. I mean do we expect to maintain the cotton volumes that we did last year? Or I mean what is the outlook?

If the value increases by 20% and if there is no increase in price, the volume also grew by 20%. That is that. If the government -- and this is a government control price, if they increase the price, maybe it will be able to clock 20% with lesser volume growth.

Right. Got it. So we are looking at volume growth this year also. Got it, sir.

That was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to management for closing comments.

Yes. So I think very inquisitive set of questions, very well thought of, my personal gratitude, and thanks to the entire participants and investment analysis people for having taken time to deep study. Agriculture industry is not an easy industry. It has lots of analytical complications, but the questions were well brought out. So thank you very much for joining us today. As a passing remark, like I said, last year also, I'm making a reiterated statement. We are here to stay. We have been in agriculture for quite some time. We understand the difficulties, the challenges and the nuances of this particular industry, and we plan to touch INR 500 crores of top line ASAP. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Thank you. On behalf of Go India Advisors, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.