National Grid plc (NG) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Hello, and welcome to today's webcast on National Grid's Responsible Business Report. I'm Nick Ashworth. I head up Investor Relations here at Grid, and I'll be today's host for the call. Firstly, I just want to point your attention to the cautionary statement at the front of the slide deck. Shortly, you're going to hear from our CEO, John Pettigrew, who will present the key highlights from this year's Responsible Business Report. Afterwards, he'll come and join us for a Q&A session where we'll be joined by Duncan Burt, our Chief Sustainability Officer. To ask a question, please, can you populate the Ask the Question box at the bottom of the webcast and submit, and that's going to be open all the way throughout today's webcast. If you'd like to be attributed to the question, please put your name in the question as well. Questions will come to me, and I'll read them out through the Q&A session to John and Duncan. A couple of housekeepings. Materials will all be on our website when the presentation is over. And of course, if you need more information, me or the IR team will be available for that after the event. So without further ado, we'll start the presentation, and I'll hand over to our CEO, John Pettigrew. John?

Well, thank you, Nick, and hello, and welcome to everyone who's dialed into the call today. 18 months ago, we launched our Responsible Business Charter. Our objective is to articulate what responsibility means to us and underpin our vision to be at the heart of a clean, fair and affordable energy future. The rapidly changing political landscape means this vision has never been more important as we're working with governments and other energy companies to strengthen energy independence and to deliver net zero. Our second Responsible Business Report published on June 7 demonstrates the progress we're making with those commitments across 5 pillars from our journey to net zero. Some of the highlights from last year include advocating for action to mitigate climate change on a global platform through our role as a principal partner at COP26. Launching our U.S. Northeast Clean Energy Vision, which aims to deliver a more affordable energy future through a hybrid of electric and clean gas infrastructure. The early return of GBP 200 million from our interconnector business helping to reduce customer bills. Record levels of capital investment in critical infrastructure, and new community investments in both the U.K. and across our U.S. jurisdictions. In an increasingly challenging macro environment, the wellbeing of our people and the communities we serve has never been more important. So with that introduction, I'll take the next few minutes to look at each of the 5 pillars of our Responsible Business Charter, picking out some of the highlights of the last year as well as our future plans. Starting with the environment. As one of the world's largest publicly traded utilities, we have a duty to share our expertise and show leadership around the energy transition. One of the ways we can do this is by focusing on reducing our own emissions and putting together a credible roadmap and setting out our journey to net zero. We've already reduced our own greenhouse gas emissions by 65% since 1990. Across our networks business, combined Scope 1 and 2 emissions last year were 5% lower than the prior year. This was driven by actions, including a targeted program on electrical equipment where we reduced SF6 emissions by 18%. And our continued gas leak prone pipe replacement program, which has reduced methane emissions by 4%. But whilst we made good progress on the emissions that are within our own control, it won't always be a linear path as this past year has shown. One of the most significant contributors to our Scope 1 emissions is our requirement to supply electricity to the Long Island Power Authority using fossil fuel power generation. In the last year, with Long Island requiring greater generation to meet energy demand in the state, our total Scope 1 and Scope 2 emissions were up by 8% to 7.5 million tonnes, even whilst emissions from our core networks was down. We're working with the LIPA to transform our generation fleets and looking for ways to replace existing thermal plants with newer, cleaner forms of generation like renewables or battery storage. So while the path isn't always straightforward, I'm confident in our ability to reach our group target of an 80% reduction in Scope 1 and 2 emissions by 2030 and getting to net zero by 2050. Moving to our Scope 3 emissions. We announced in May last year a new SBTi aligned target to reduce these emissions by 37.5% by 2034 from our 2019 baseline, and we've taken action to reduce these emissions. For example, in the U.S., we offer energy efficiency assessment to our customers as well as financial support for more energy efficient home appliances, heat pumps and small -- and smart business control systems. However, with 80% of these emissions coming from the gas and electricity we sold to our U.S. customers, we saw a 4% increase last year, largely driven by a rebound in demand, as economies recover post COVID. Our focus is to continue to drive energy efficiency alongside decarbonizing our networks to deliver the emission reductions that are needed. Now longer term, we recently published our Clean Energy Vision, setting out a pathway for fossil-free network in the U.S. by 2050. The plan set out 4 pillars: to continue to increase energy efficiency; eliminate fossil fuels from our gas networks; give customers tools to maximize benefits of [indiscernible] electric and clean gas solutions; and support targeted electrification of heating where it's cost effective to do so. Through this hybrid approach, the average consumer is expected to save 15% to 20% on their energy cost per year compared to [indiscernible] electrification approach. We're hosting an Investor Event in New York on the 19th of July, which will focus on this topic. And in the year ahead, we're working on a number of new demonstration projects to support this vision. [Audio Gap] to reach our climate milestones. This will be put through a shareholder vote on our Annual General Meeting next month. And alongside the work that we're doing to reduce our emissions, we're also enabling the energy transition flow in a way that ensures an energy future that is clean, fair and affordable. We have a crucial role to play in delivering the critical infrastructure, the decarbonization of electricity networks, the electrification of transport and the decarbonization of heat, and we're acting now. We announced full year results in May for GBP 24 billion. More than 70% of our GBP 30 billion to GBP 35 billion investment program over our 5-year framework is investment in the decarbonization of energy systems aligned to the EU taxonomy. This includes most of our electricity investment across transmission and distribution, including connecting clean sources of generation, such as renewables and nuclear. It also covers the investment that reduces emissions in our gas networks such as our leak prone pipe replacement program. This makes us one of the FTSE's biggest investors in the delivery of net zero, and this truly sets us apart as the energy transition company. So turning now to our second pillar, people. A huge focus in the past year has been on creating a truly diverse, equitable, safe and inclusive environment where all our colleagues feel that they belong and can achieve their full potential. As part of this, we were pleased to welcome Natalie Edwards to National Grid this year as our first Chief Diversity Officer. Last December, we launched our first ever set of group-wide diversity, equity and inclusion commitments, using feedback from an extensive listening tour as well as from our annual colleague survey. We also introduced diversity measures for leaders as part of their remuneration incentives, with a particular focus on the diversity of new hires and levers. And against the goals that we set in our Responsible Business Charter, we're making significant progress, with 50% diversity in our senior leadership team and over 50% diversity across hires and new talent programs. And alongside bringing in new talent, investing in our colleagues and having a skilled workforce is fundamental to delivering a safe and reliable service. On average, our employees spend a full week every year training, and we've recently launched a new program to identify and develop our next generation of leaders. In the U.K., we have no material gender pay gaps between colleagues working in comparable roles, and we've seen improvement in the reported gender pay gap in the U.S. this year. And we know there is still more due. And as our charter sets out, our ambition is to achieve equitable pay across all of our workforce. Moving to our third pillar of focus, communities. Clearly, over the last year, the world in which we operate has seen major changes, with Russia's devastating war in Ukraine, a global economic slowdown and rapidly rising inflation. We remain committed to delivering secure, reliable and affordable energy for the 14 million customers we serve in the U.K. and in the U.S. Our networks continue to maintain excellent levels of reliability at over 99.9% across both transmission and distribution. For example, in our U.K. electricity distribution business, our industry-leading performance means that our customers will experience, on average, [indiscernible] 1 outage every 2 years for less than 24 minutes. This reliability has been despite a number of challenging storms in recent years. The field team is responding rapidly to quickly reconnect affected customers. And we do this with affordability always at the forefront of our minds and never more so than today. In the U.K., we work with Ofgem this year on the early return of GBP 200 million to customers from revenues earned above our regulatory cap. We've also committed GBP 2 million to Citizens Advice and the Fuel Bank Trust to support their important work, providing advice on managing and reducing customer bills. While over in the U.S., our long-term partnership with [indiscernible] in New York is helping 120,000 families with their heating bills. And in Massachusetts, we've implemented more than $1.3 billion in energy efficiency measures over the last 3 years. And we continue to work hard to drive further social and economic benefits in the communities that we serve. In the last year, we've contributed over GBP 18 million to community initiatives. For example, we launched Project C in New York, partnering with communities to make sure our economic and social role has the greatest possible impact. This includes our work with the Northland Workforce Training Center, which focuses on developing skills amongst minorities in the fields of manufacturing and energy. And we've built on the early success of our Grid for Good program, which is designed to improve social mobility for disadvantaged young people. This is seen as working with local charity partners in both the U.K. and in the U.S. And the data supported nearly 4,000 people through areas such as training and mentoring to develop early career opportunities at National Grid and our wider supply chain. And to deliver this increase in community support, I'm proud of the commitment of our people, which has led to an almost 30% increase in volunteering hours. And alongside this work, we've also published our fair transition statement. For us, a fair transition means that no one is left behind it. Everyone should share in the benefits that the energy transition brings, like access to clean energy, health, job opportunities and economic development. The statement sets out where we can take a leading role to hear your feedback as we develop our fair transition strategy. So turning now to how we support the economy. We delivered a record GBP 7 billion of investment in critical energy infrastructure last year, with GBP 3 billion invested in the U.K. and GBP 4 billion across our U.S. businesses. To support our capital investment program, we've successfully raised GBP 2.5 billion in green financing instruments, including our largest ever green bond of EUR 850 million. Our capital investment program supports 30,000 jobs across our businesses as well as a large and diverse supply chain of over 8,000 suppliers. And we recognize this supply chain is an extension of how we operate as a business, and we engage with suppliers on workforce diversity and climate change. This includes our role on the steering group of utilities against slavery. This is an initiative aimed at raising awareness of the potential risk of exploitation of the sector and building capability and knowledge to mitigate these risks. We've seen the percentage of our suppliers with carbon reduction targets increase to 54% from 49% and are on track to meet our commitment of 75% of our key suppliers by 2030. And we continue to invest in innovation with National Grid Partners investing GBP 93 million last year in new starter companies that will help to deliver value for customers now and into the longer term. And then finally, governance, from transparency and culture to making sure we have a diverse leadership team. We're committed to the highest standards of corporate governance and making sure we apply best practices. In the past year, we've reviewed the governance framework and evolved our committees to better facilitate our progress with our sustainability commitments and our responsible business aims. And our senior leadership play an essential role in setting the right culture. Diversity is core to our business at every level. And following recent changes to the Board, Board diversity is now at 54%. Underpinning our approach to culture is our code of ethics, which helps our colleagues to always do the right thing and sets frameworks, policies, processes and governance structures for important topics across our business, including acting responsibly in everything we do, our expectations of our people and their behaviors and how to address conflicts of interest. One way to achieve this is through our global ethics training program, which was completed by over 95% of colleagues last year. So those are just some of the highlights that I wanted to cover, but there is much more in the report itself. We welcome your feedback as we continue to make the report as impactful as we can. This is a journey, and as I said, it won't be a linear path to meet our commitments. But as we move forward, we have great confidence in meeting our near, medium and long-term targets. And you'll be able to track this progress through our Annual Responsible Business Report, our TCFD disclosures in the annual report, on our climate transition and fair transition plans. We'll continue to advocate with all of our stakeholders for a clean, fair and affordable energy transition where nobody is left behind. So thank you for listening. Now together with our Chief Sustainability Officer, Duncan Burt, I'm very happy to answer your questions.

Thank you, John. Thank you for the presentation. Please come over and join us. It's now time for the Q&A. As John said, we will be joined by Duncan Burt, our Chief Sustainability Officer. [Operator Instructions] So with that said, we have got a few questions coming through already, which is great. Please keep them coming. So we'll start with the first one. How would you go about setting your Scope 1 and 2 targets, for example, why 2050 for net zero?

Well, why don't I start and then perhaps Duncan can add. So we're very thoughtful actually about setting the targets of National Grid. We want our targets to be ambitious, and we want them to be aligned with the states that we're operating in the U.S. and with the U.K. government targets. But we also -- we want to make sure that those targets as well as being ambitious were deliverable. And what we've set out in our Responsible Business Report that hopefully people had a chance to read is the clear actions that we're going to take to deliver on those targets. So -- and of course, they're aligned now as well to SBTi. So for Scope 1 and 2, for example. We've been very clear about our target of getting less than 2% against SBTi. But actually, we're not resting on our laurels either, so that's at the group level. Within the individual business level, electricity transmission, our Electricity System Operator and WPD have all been able to align to the less than 1.5%. So what we try to do is set out an ambitious set of targets, but with real actions behind them that makes people confident that, actually, we're going to deliver on them.

That's right. And that discipline of delivery, as you say, John, what that breaks down to in our targets is we're really then looking at what we know and understand and can do now. So the measures we're taking in investment to connect low-carbon renewable generation onto our networks and on to the grid. We're looking very closely at national and state plans, whether they're like the work of the Committee on Climate Change in the U.K. and analyze if that would translate into our own activities in the sector. And we're also looking internationally at things like the International Energy Agency and their standards such as that development should have [ new ] zero carbon power grids by 2035. And then in terms of delivery, we've had a lot of focus from the Board and the exec on this, as we've gone through the preparation of those plans. We're trying to decide where we're certain and where we can connect and where we need to invest in innovation and longer-term discovery to achieve a really affordable price point for that -- for the delivery of that transition. So something like SF6, sulfur hexafluoride, where we're having to invest long term to take that greenhouse gas out of our assets. For the moment, that's strong partnerships with some of the big equipment manufacturers like Hitachi and Siemens. And then we're measuring how those innovation projects go, and then we expect to shift into delivery and a company that with regulatory funding for that change as we get into the middle and the back end of that decade. And the plan is built up with that with some solidity uncertainty, with principles on alignment, with national and international standards and expectations and then where we need to push innovation. And all of that goes without saying, feeds is a foundational within our business plan preparation, so it all feeds into the business plan and then through the normal performance and reporting process.

Okay. Thank you. And as a follow-up to that, then I think it's been widely recognized that National Grid has set out clear 2030, 2040, 2050 emissions reduction targets. Do you have short-term milestones? Can you talk to those?

Yes. I mean, simple answer is, yes, of course, we do. So we've set out sort of the medium- and long-term objectives. But actually, if I go into my sort of own leadership team, for example, then this year, one of the things I'm really pleased that we've done is we formalized the objective setting around climate change in terms of remuneration and objectives. So 20% of the long-term incentive program that we've got here at National Grid is going to be linked to climate targets, and they're very specific. So in 3 years' time, we will reduce our CO2 emissions by X percent, and that aligns to what we need to do in order to hit our 2030 target and ultimately 2040 and 2050 targets, so, yes. And then just taking it one step further, Nick, if you actually -- within our businesses, I review each of National Grid's businesses every month, and each of them has a scorecard. And within that, there are specific targets around climate change for this year in terms of what they need to deliver to align with the 3 years and then further and beyond that.

Okay. Very clear. Thank you. Changing tacks slightly, we had a question around affordability. So it's clearly very much front of mind at the moment in both the U.K. and the U.S. Can you speak about how we are balancing that against the investment requirements to meet the targets that we set out?

Yes. I mean, first of all, I think everybody in the industry and society more broadly is very conscious about the impact that energy prices are having on people. A lot of people are genuinely struggling to pay their energy bills. And as a consequence of that, we've been thinking very carefully about what we can do. I've said to investors and customers many times, we're a very small part of the bill, but that doesn't negate the fact that we have a really important role to play in helping to support customers. So this year, for example, you would have heard in my remarks, we were very pleased to approach the regulator and ask if we could return GBP 200 million of additional revenues that we collected from our interconnectors business that normally would go back in several years' time, recognizing the challenges that customers have today. We've got a GBP 400 million efficiency program here in -- at National Grid, which we delivered GBP 170 million this year, which is all about how do we drive efficiency and innovation to make sure that our part of the bill is as low as it possibly can be. I'm really proud of the fact that WPD [indiscernible] electricity distribution now in National Grid has set up a 5-year plan that's been reviewed by the regulator that will increase capital investment by 27% over the next 5 years, but we'll hold the bill broadly flat for our electricity distribution business. But probably more importantly than all of that actually is National Grid has got a massively important role in enabling everybody to have access to clean energy, and we're investing GBP 30 billion to GBP 35 billion over the next 5 years to ensure that we can connect that offshore wind and solar and storage and all the different technologies, so that we can get to the energy transition that we need. When you [ compare ] fossil prices today, that's going to help customers as well in the longer term.

And actually, maybe I can bring in Duncan here as well, just expanding this a little bit. And actually, John, in your speech, you talked a little bit about the fair transition report, and we're talking about going out and canvassing views. So the question is, will National Grid return principles set forth into actual commitments and measurable goals? And if so, when?

Yes. I think it's fair to say, John, absolutely, well, you don't let me do anything without clear targets and measures in place [Audio Gap] Understand whether we've got the balance and the prioritization right in those areas we're looking at. And then we will convert that into a series of actions. Some of those will be commitments, and some of those will be measurable steps we want to take on the road in those priority areas that you help us for. We've also flagged that we expect to update the Responsible Business Charter at some point, both to reflect the change in the portfolio with WPD electricity distribution coming in. And I can see a big build on some of our fair transition within an update to the Responsible Business Charter.

And bringing WPD into the group, we've announced the sale of 60% of National Group Gas as well. Does that change any of our targets, our commitments in the medium term?

It doesn't change our commitment and the trajectory that we're on, but it will mean we have to update some of the foundational data in there, as you say. So we'll take National Grid Gas up because we don't have operational control of that business. So under all of the external benchmarks, we would remove those emissions, but we will bring in electricity distribution. And that change is, obviously, they've got a huge role in decarbonization for the communities they serve, a very significant amount of low carbon generation connecting onto those networks. So we think it will be an acceleration of the trajectories we already published in the climate transition plan.

I mean, it's just worth saying next, one of the things we put in our business [ plan ] for WPD is over the next 5 years to give access to the network to 1.5 million EVs and 600,000 heat pumps. So again, that's going to have a massive impact in helping to decarbonize the U.K. And hopefully, we'll get the regulators to support that. But that will help with our trajectory as we go forward as well, and you'll see all that as we set that out in our targets next year.

Okay. Keeping with affordability and sort of a bit closer to time, given the issues in Ukraine, again, you mentioned in your speech, do you have any concerns around security supply for this winter, electricity or gas?

So I think, I mean, just in the context of today's discussion, National Grid has always thought about the trilemma and the balance between delivering decarbonization, affordability and security supply. Clearly, with the events -- the terrible events that are going on in Ukraine, and everybody's has been very focused on what are the implications for security supply, and that has sort of been brought to the 4 of the 3 sort of legs of the triangle. It's probably worth just saying, for the U.K., about 4% to 6% of our gas comes from Russia, so we're not hugely dependent on it. And that's very different to Europe, where Germany and Italy and others are 40% plus dependent on Russian gas. So there is likely to be some knock-on effect. At the moment, there is no security supply issue. The electricity system operator actually is going to give an early view of what the winter looks like at the end of July, and then we'll do, as usual, a winter outlook report at the back end of September. And you may have seen -- actually, I'm not sure people would have seen in the press that we get asked about the electricity system operator to think around some contingencies for [indiscernible] which potentially Russia is exporting gas to Europe. That will have significant impact in Europe and therefore will have knock-on effects for the U.K. But at the moment, when we look to the winter, security supply looks very similar to last year. But it's prudent, as you'd expect, for the U.K. government to say, "Well, let's just do some what-if scenarios." And one of the things that, again, people might have seen in the past is the electricity system operator has recently contracted for some additional generation -- fossil fuel generation, which normally would be closing actually in this coming winter. But actually, we're looking to extend the life of that just as an insurance policy against any sort of potential contingencies.

Okay. Actually, we've got a question on governance. Actually, part of it, I think you've already answered, but I'll read it all anyway, because I think the second half is something you've touched on in your script. So our ESG criteria success part of the executive remuneration policies is the dedicated Board members or Board committees explicitly responsible to ESG climate policy oversight. And I know you've mentioned in your speech that the governance and the committees have evolved a little bit this year. So can you talk a little bit to that?

Yes, and I'll talk more fully about the connection to objectives and incentives as well. So we've actually done a review this year of our remuneration policy and is actually going to a vote at the AGM next month. Within that, as I said, we've formalized the objectives that we set for leadership, and they're calculated right through the organization for ESG and actually the broader responsibility objectives that we've got as National Grid. So 50% of our short-term EPP targets will be linked to ESG measures. And as I said, 20% of our long-term incentive will be linked to ESG measures. And that's outside of everybody in National Grid has individual objectives, and some of them will be covering ESG as well. I mentioned in my remarks that, actually, since Paula became Chair, we have done a review of our governance to make sure that it is best practice and fit for purpose as we move forward as an organization. And one of the things we've done is actually expanded the scope of what was our safety committee to be safety and sustainability, and that includes all aspects of ESG. And actually, our governance around nominations has also been expanded to include ESG aspects as well. So I think, actually, I feel very comfortable. Actually, we've got the right focus of the Board, and we've got subcommittees of the Board now spending a lot of their time providing support, guidance, advice and critique of management and what we're doing to deliver on the Responsible Business Charter.

Perfect. There's 2 or 3 questions actually are related to our U.S. business, so let's move across there for a couple of questions. So I've got one saying, I see that New York and Massachusetts are pushing for greater levels of electrification of heat. Does your clean energy vision align to this? So maybe a little bit more detail on the clean energy vision, please.

Yes. So I was really pleased actually a month or so ago to launch our fossil-free vision in the future, and that's because there's been a lot of focus on decarbonization of generation and decarbonization of transport. And everybody has admitted, I think, that decarbonization heat is the tricky one. So we actually spent an extensive amount of time really thinking through what a roadmap might look like for decarbonization of heat in our jurisdictions in the U.S. And what we've set out, I think, is a very pragmatic and, ultimately, a hybrid solution to reflect what we see in those jurisdictions, the geography, the climate, but also the fact that there's a huge amount of investments gone into these gas networks that potentially can be repurposed. So the fossil-free vision is one that effectively, first and foremost, leads with more energy efficiency because it's the most effective way of reducing the impact on the climate. Secondly, it advocates for a mixture of electric and clean gas solutions because not always will get -- will a clean gas or electric solution be right to a hybrid solution. It advocates for part of that role to be fossil-free gas, which is either renewable natural gas or hydrogen. And where it makes sense economically, it advocates for electrification. So ultimately, our vision is one which will be a mixture of 0 fossil fuel gas, electrification, energy efficiency. It aligns, I think, with the discussion that's going on in both Massachusetts and New York. So we're at a point in time actually which -- where both states are in consultation effectively about what is the roadmap and what is the role for gas in a net zero world. In Massachusetts, there is a process called 20-80, where each of the gas distribution companies have been asked to input how they see that roadmap that's been provided to the DPU in Massachusetts, and we're due to hear back from them later on this year. And in New York, they're running a consultation as part of the CLCPA. And again, we're using the clean fossil fuel vision that we set out to input into that consultation. Ultimately, we do think that there's real benefits in thinking through the vision that we set out. Potentially, it saves customers $800 to $1,000 per year versus full electrification. And we know that for electrification, it is incredibly difficult in urban areas and for certain business processes and industrial processes. So we're very pleased actually with the way that it was received. A lot of people are leaning in to understand it, and we're using that as part of the debate that's going on in both states to really set up a clearer roadmap for the decarbonization of heat.

And the time scale, I mean, what's the process from here around New York and Massachusetts solidifying that...

Yes. So broadly, I think we'll get a much clearer view on both at the end of the calendar year. So Massachusetts, I think, is aiming for the end of the calendar year and New York in a similar time frame. So I don't think it's exactly [ set ]. But broadly, I would hope in the next 12 months, we get a lot more clarity about where the states are at and what that means for us. But as I said, I'm really pleased with the way that the vision we've set out has sort of been landed within the states.

And I think it's [indiscernible] I mean, it's technology neutral. So as that process runs this year, we'll continue to update and align that plan.

And so I've got a couple of technical questions. I don't know if you 2 are the right people for it. I've got them, so I'm going to ask them. So we've mentioned 100% fossil free gas network by 2050 at the latest, with a proportion of the network transporting 100% green hydrogen. Can you safely deliver hydrogen to households without a full retrofit of the piping system of each home?

Can you take that, John?

So most of the studies have been done in Europe, U.K. and U.S. suggest that, actually, a roundabout 20% by volume of hydrogen can safely be converted without changing domestic appliances. To get to 100% hydrogen in the pipe works, it depends on which pipe works we're talking about, to be specific. So if it's the plastic network that has been put in place in distribution, that actually is pretty much fit to go. If it's one of the old iron ore steel networks, then it may need some work, particularly around joints, particularly around compression because you'll probably need to deliver hydrogen at a higher compression. So that's some of the work that we've been doing, and I referenced some of the demonstration projects that we're working on. So the answer is slightly more complicated, depending on the nature of the technology that you're looking to use.

Perfect. And given the success of that answer, I'm going to follow on with the next one, which is this is [indiscernible] from MSCI. Where do you see a greater potential to decarbonize gas grids, RNG or hydrogen?

Well, I'll start. I mean, I think it's a function of actually, as always with these things, how the technology develops and how prices come down. So what we do know from the work that we've done in the U.S. is that there is certainly sufficient [ RFP ] to meet the needs of our fossil-free vision. In order to -- for that to happen, we need to develop, both the supply side and the demand side. So one of the next steps for us on RNG is to work with regulators and policymakers to potentially encourage the development of RNG, so that it's captured efficiently and then transport it through our networks. So you may have seen in some of the work that we did and some of the announcements we made that, potentially, having a clean gas procurement directive with a target from our regulators over the next few years might be quite helpful in really encouraging the supply side to continue to innovate to drive cost down. Similarly, on the hydrogen side, we've done an extensive amount of work. We all know that there will be times in a 100% renewable electricity world where there will be surplus renewable electricity, and that potentially could be used very effectively to produce hydrogen to support heating and other things. But also potentially, green hydrogen could be a very efficient solution as renewable generation costs keep coming down. So what we try to do is set out, in a way, a roadmap and not be too definitive about exactly the percentages because both of these things are new technologies that we'll need to develop over the next few years.

Yes. As you said, John, it's very flexible between the 2, but the early lift on that is all done with RNG, with hydrogen first in pilots and then coming in later. But as John says, it's very flexible and we can't understate that a lot of the work on that heat strategy is done by a big additional question to energy efficiency, which I think no one globally is going to disagree with that energy efficiency is always the cheapest way through it. And then as you look at it, actually, we think it's quite an easy strategy for consumers to adopt with a lot of air-source heat pumps actually coming in and taking the weight of demand out of those shoulder months when it's chilly. But actually, you can use that air-source heat pump for air conditioning in the summer and then for mid-level heating as you come into the winter as well. So it's quite flexible, quite easy to gradually move to that from an existing gas-dominated heat sector.

Because I think one of the point, Nick, to ask quite a lot about the difference between why green hydrogen, why blue hydrogen. And actually, in different geographies, you might have different outcomes and different solutions. So one of the things we have learned, I think, over the last 12 months is the solution is likely to be a hybrid and very unique to the circumstances of where that solution is being put. So in the U.K., for example, because we've got the old sort of oil and gas [indiscernible], there is a [ better ] solution for blue hydrogen in the early years, and you've seen that being adopted as part of the U.K. government strategy. That may then be superseded by green hydrogen. But certainly, you can expect to see blue hydrogen, I think, in the U.K. In the Northeast of the U.S., where we operate, actually, blue hydrogen is less likely because there's no obvious place in which you could store the CO2, and it comes in huge volumes. And therefore, the transport cost of that is likely to be high. So it's more likely to be a green hydrogen solution there. So it's a question I get asked a lot about the difference between the 2. And sometimes, it's just about the geography and what's available in those places.

Thank you. So I see new questions keep coming through, so thank you very much for that. [Operator Instructions] I've got 2 or 3 on diversity, so I'm going to group them together. If I can start with a definition, maybe this one is for you, Duncan. How do you define diversity for senior leadership?

We define it as any protected characteristic, but I think that we really want to break that down as we get more into this. Because at the moment, think of that 50% already, as per John's speech at the beginning, and I think we'll now start to section that out into gender and other protective characteristics where we want to make sure we're getting it right. Our overall aim is that we reflect the communities we serve. You can't ask for anything other than that. And so -- but for the moment, it is simply the protective characteristics.

Maybe one for you, John. What are the key objectives of the Chief Diversity Officer within National Grid? So you mentioned Natalie is just joined. She has been here every year now. Will the position join the group executive committee?

So first of all, I'm just delighted that we've got Natalie. Fundamental objective is to support each of my business leaders and their executive committees in ensuring that we achieve the objectives that we've set. So we set some short-term objectives, as Duncan has just referenced. So I want 50% of my senior leadership group being diverse. We're very near to that, and we will go down to the next level in terms of things like ethnic minorities. But also we've got a much bigger challenge as an industry, where we come from a traditional background, which hasn't historically attracted diverse people from diverse backgrounds. So we're going right back to the schools, so -- as well as supporting the leadership team in their sort of day-to-day targets. Then what I'll ask Natalie to do is go right back to the beginning. So how do we attract people from school level 3 universities into the energy sector and ultimately international grid? What are the programs that we need to put in place? What are the education process we need to put in place? So it's about building a pipeline so that, ultimately, we get to that objective of being reflective of every single community that we work in. So we're doing really well at the top level at the moment, to be honest, and we're doing really well with the programs, but we've got a long way to go before we actually are truly reflective of each of the communities we serve. And Natalie's role is to help me, the group executive and the executive teams of each of the individual businesses at National Grid to achieve those objectives. She reports into the HR Director, which I think is right, but has a huge amount of time both at the Board, at our People and Governance subcommittee, with me personally and with the group executive. So it is -- you've got a sense from the Responsible Business Charter as one of our key priorities, and Natalie is a key resource in helping us to deliver on that.

And John, it's easy to slip into the numbers and that outcome delivery. But I think if Natalie is here as well, we should be talking about creating that inclusive culture across the organization, wouldn't she? This isn't for us just a numbers game. It is about -- that's how we can measure it. But actually, the deeper measures are really around the culture of the organization. where the people feel that they can bring their whole self to work and whether we have created that inclusive culture where people can see who they want to be and where they feel that they can really bring their whole self and work in an environment, which welcomes them.

Perfect. So I've got 2 or 3 more questions. [Operator Instructions] Moving to biodiversity. Maybe this is for you, Duncan. Biodiversity and habitat, so what is the longer term -- so how is the longer-term improvement work progressing? Will the sale of U.K. gas transmission assets or the purchase of WPD affect your land footprint? And what can you do here?

It's a great question. So I think at the top line, we welcome the additional attention on this at the moment as well. We have a proud heritage in our own landholdings for things such as the nature centers that we've got in electricity transmission in the U.K. The shift to WPD coming in, I don't know the precise numbers, but I think it will increase our operational landholding slightly, and we will look at the targets in that light. We're also working very closely on the task force for Nature-Related Financial Disclosure, NFD, which we expect to start coming out of maturing next year, and we hope to be an early mover on that subject to discussions at the committee and the Board as to how that fits with our broader strategy to increase biodiversity. So there's a lot going on in the space. We think it's very positive. We think it also overlaps into our offsetting strategy as well, where we want to stay local and look at things, which are going to be beneficial to the ecosystems, alongside simply something that is recordable for carbon.

Perfect. Thank you. This is the one I was going to go to next. Can you please discuss the role of an independent operator along the journey to net zero and National Grid's role within the FSO vision and also the time line regarding the system reformation?

Lots in there. So in terms of -- let's just do the time line in terms of the creation [indiscernible] so we're really pleased actually to get to a position as part of the British Energy Security Strategy for the decision to be made to move forward with the Future System Operator. Given the role that the Future System Operator will have, we think it's absolutely right that we now step forward and take that to a position where it's independent of National Grid, and we look forward to seeing that as part of the energy bill when it goes through Parliament pretty soon. In terms of the time scales in the strategy documents, the aspiration was to get it done by 2024. So we will certainly work to do it in those time scales, if not quicker. But obviously, you've got to go through the energy bill. And then there is a degree of work that we need to do to separate the system operator from the rest of National Grid. But we're very supportive of it and the role it's going to play. In terms of the energy transition, I guess I'll split into 2. There's a medium-term objective that the system operator set out, which is by 2025 to be in a position where it can operate the network with zero carbon generation. And they've been doing a huge amount of work developing new tools and products to be able to be in a position where they're able to do that, and they're very much on track to do that. Longer term, of course, the Future System Operator will play a massively important role in advising government, but also setting out the integrated plan for the U.K. to link the offshore wind with the onshore transmission development. And actually, we're expecting this week to see what's called the holistic network design, which is the first time that everybody will be able to see what an integrated solution looks like to deliver the 50 gigawatts that the U.K. government has set out as its strategy. The Future System Operator has been working closely with the transmission owners, which is National Grid, Scotch government, SSE as well as BEIS in developing that integrated plan. So I think that would be the first time people have a sense of what's the infrastructure that needs to be built. But also it will address, to a certain degree, I think, one of the concerns that people had, which is all these linear connections to offshore wind, so trying just to increase the coordination between the offshore winds and where they connect to the onshore transmission systems.

Great. Thank you. And so we're jumping around a little bit. Actually, this is back to our fair transition or just transition. We've talked a little bit about this, but it is worth asking the question here that, can you address the just transition for your workforce, including how you're engaging with organized labor in the U.S. to make sure it works out the information they need about future job expectations?

I mean, I'll do it for both the U.K. and the U.S. actually. So for National Grid, it is massively important that we work closely with our trade union colleagues. So it is a partnership. We cannot deliver the work that we need to do without having the skills that our union colleagues provide. So we spent quite a lot of time, actually, both on the U.K. and on the U.S. side articulating exactly how we see the networks evolving and the skill sets that we're going to need to support that. So in the U.S., for example, as we've launched the future fossil-free gas vision, we engaged extensively with the unions, and they've been absolutely fantastic actually in supporting us and recognizing that, actually, it will require some skills to be developed. But actually, we've got a huge source of really skilled labor that has got the capability to develop to support that vision. And actually, one of the principles that we set out when we put the vision in place was, one, that we wanted to be affordable for our customers, but we also wanted to make sure that we were not only creating new jobs, but ultimately protecting the existing jobs. And of course, the unions were very supportive of that. So it's something we work very closely with the them.

I think there's a broader point there. I mean, our role in the energy transition is a source of huge pride for the colleagues right across the business, isn't it? We -- the fair transition, what we did, was developed by a whole set of internal colleague workshops, alongside a number of critical friends, organizations that we work with externally. And we've built through our work as a principal partner for COP26 last year. And into this year, we've built an internal Climate Champions network, which will -- which is delivering a lot of the horsepower into our work on this.

Onto a slightly different topic, and we don't have our Treasurer or our CFO here, but green financing. Given clear group efforts to be aligned with EU taxonomy disclosures and KPIs, in addition to existing green bond standards, do you anticipate also issuing debt under the EU green bond label once finalized?

I suspect the answer to that is yes, but I'm going to be honest. You can see what our needs [indiscernible] actually. I would have to double check. I mean, look, we've been really pleased. We put our green financing principles together, and we've -- as you heard in my remarks, we have been very successful at raising financing on the back of that. We are keen to make that linkage between the financing we raised and the projects that we are delivering. I'm really proud of the fact that of the GBP 30 billion to GBP 35 billion we're going to spend over the next 5 years, GBP 24 billion of it is actually supporting decarbonization and n line with the EU taxonomy. But I will double check to make sure that the team is on that.

And actually, I'd just like to say I'm pleased that it's been picked up that we are making huge efforts to be aligned with EU taxonomy. I think the work to actually to even verify and talk about the GBP 24 billion that we did at [ resorts ] we took a huge effort behind the season. And we're spending a lot of time thinking about the information that we can put out. So again, any feedback from you on what we're doing is always gratefully received. Sorry. And then I started talking and I've lost my place now. So let's go to this question on line losses. Could you explain how to otherwise reduce line loss in your networks in case? So how do you reduce line losses in your networks if decarbonization of power generation in both the U.K. and the U.S. does not happen as fast as expected? Is there anything that we [indiscernible]

I mean, there's 2 ways to reduce line losses at the headlines [Audio Gap] In terms of overhead lines that are much more efficient and reduce losses themselves. Recently, I was out in California, for example, visiting National Grid Partners. National Grid Partners business, as you know, is one that looks to invest in start-up companies that are looking at technologies that are relevant to networks, but maybe over the hill in terms of the quite early technologies. And one of the companies we're investing is looking at new conductors that will do 2 things. One, they will reduce losses, so they're much more effective in that regard, but also will increase the capacity for an existing conductor. So we'll be a much more efficient way of being able to increase the capacity of our overhead lines and, therefore, a more efficient and potentially quicker way of allowing clean energy to connect. So those are the 2 things, but we look all the time at our technology to reduce our losses.

But it's fair to say that, I mean, the final bit of the question I can see there is how sensitive is the plan to those [indiscernible] for loss is the plan. We should be candid that the plan is very sensitive to the rate of the connection of labor and renewable [ connection ]. But the [ connecting ] point is we have a build on that. [indiscernible] we've been asked of that as part of [indiscernible]

Sorry. I was asking all the questions. There's a question here on competition around climate transition plan. But how do you think of National Grid's climate transition plan compares versus peers? And do we benchmark? Or is it about just pushing ourselves? And so how do we think about our climate transition plan?

Yes, we do benchmark. We've also talked with SSC, who are the other utility here in the U.K. that have published an initial one. And we've looked also in other sectors. We've talked quite closely with the banking sector who are also looking at this now. We're really pleased with the feedback we've had on the first one. And we have had some questions around whether those short-term targets are clear in there. We think they are. And whether our plans for the U.S. gas distribution business to align with the state plans, again, we think they do, and we've answered those questions. So we've had a lot of good feedback on the clarity in the plan, the candor in the plan and the fact that we've been really clear as well that we think our aim for 2050 is not just net zero, which is still our target. But we think, actually, utilities as a whole will be aiming for a real zero because if you look at all of the national level plans, they all have the utility sectors getting to zero. As I said, for the International Energy Agency, for power grid by 2035 or pretty close to that.

Okay. And I've got a couple of questions left on stakeholder engagement. There's a few minutes left. [Operator Instructions]. So firstly, can you talk about the process National Grid has taken or plans to take to map the entirety of its political influence? How do we think about political influence? What do we do?

Sorry, in terms of political...

In terms of political influence, trade unions and our activities with these stakeholders.

Yes. I mean, given the role that we play, it's a massive part of what we do to engage and work closely with our regulators, a lot of the national politicians and key stakeholders, so from the Board down. So obviously, the Board wants to ensure that when it makes its decisions, it's got a very clear vision of what our politicians, our regulators and our stakeholders think about the key issues. And as a result, there's an awful lot of engagement at the Board level. At the group executive, as you can imagine, an awful lot of our time is spent making sure that we understand the policy issues, the regulatory issues and our customer issues to be able to take our plans forward. So it's an extensive part of what we, as National Grid, do because we can't deliver our plans without the support of our regulators and politicians. And they can't deliver their plans without National Grid's support. So it's massively important that we understand where we're coming from. And we spend a lot of time thinking very carefully about these issues. And to the extent that we think we can be helpful in delivering these policy objectives, then we talk directly with them. And going back to the fossil-free vision that we set is a great example of that. We felt there was a little bit of a void in terms of an articulation of a roadmap or a potential alternative to full electrification of heat and the work that we did. And what we spent a lot of time on was really to try and fill that void. And we spent a lot of time talking to politicians and regulators and key stakeholders about that and what that can do for customers ultimately as well as meet the objectives around climate change.

And then there's quite a technical point in this question as well around whether our activities is aligned to the Paris 1.5 degrees scenario. Now we think it is, and we felt that the language that we've got in the climate transition plan is clear. But we don't yet have a full group net zero 1.5 degree target under science-based targets. And there's a number of other aspects around the language that we've presented that in the Responsible Business Report that we will be digging into this year with stakeholders and others to make sure that we are mapping very strongly against that. And we think we play a very straight battle on this, that we're absolutely committed to getting to net zero, that we are really pushing hard to get to 1.5 degree trajectories. So I think to the spirit -- to the technical spirit of the question, we will absolutely be doing more work to understand why we're not scoring well on that with the aim of pushing it up.

Perfect. Thank you very much. And given time, it looks like we're about there. Could you please talk about your supplier diversity program? Do you want to stay on, continue as well or...

Well, a quick answer to that is we -- I mean, we're CDP A-listed now for our suppliers. We have been for over 5 years. We do a lot of work, particularly in the U.S., on making sure that we do have a really strong diverse supply base. We've built some of that into our broader global procurement processes as well. That's probably the quick answer. John, I don't know...

Yes. We've got an example. We're doing some great work in Long Island at the moment, actually, working with 15 different cities in New York and sort of broader Northeast about how we can encourage not just a diverse supply chain actually, but small suppliers as well. So one of the things we're trying to do is to support the smaller suppliers and supply chain to be part of the energy transition. So we've got some great examples, I think, of work going on, which is encouraging diversity of our supply chain, but also actually encouraging local supply chains as well.

Perfect. I think we're at about time now. So John, Duncan, thank you very much for your time. Really appreciate it. And so, unfortunately, I said we're out of time. Thank you very much for all the questions that have come in. We really appreciate the engagement on this topic today. And as we said, the RBR, alongside the annual report, was published a couple of weeks ago. And if there's any feedback, then please do let us know. We'd be very, very keen to hear it. As a reminder, all the materials from today's event will be on the IR website shortly, if not already. And for further information, if you want further information, please do feel free to reach out to me or any of the IR team. So look, it just leads me to say thank you very much for joining. Thank you very much for your questions and your engagement. I hope you found the event useful, and I hope you have a great rest of the day. Thank you.