Nava Limited (513023) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Q4 FY '20 Earnings Conference Call of Nava Bharat Ventures Limited hosted by IDFC Securities. [Operator Instructions] I now hand the conference over to Mr. Shirish Rane from IDFC Securities. Thank you. And over to you, Mr. Rane.

Thank you, Madhuri. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Nava Bharat Venture Limited Q4 FY '20 Earnings Call. Today, we have with us from Nava Bharat Venture Limited Mr. Ashwin Devineni, Chief Executive Officer; Mr. GRK Prasad, Executive Director; and Mr. Sultan Baig, Chief Financial Officer. To start the call, Mr. Ashwin will give some brief opening remarks, after which we will open the floor for question and answers. Over to you.

A very good morning, everyone, and a warm welcome to all the participants. The statement of our financial results, both on stand-alone and consolidated basis and a press release detailing the operations of the Nava Bharat Venture Group for the quarter and year ended March 31, 2020, have already been filed with the stock exchanges and posted on our website. I hope you have had a look at them and trust that they provide adequate information on our performance for the quarter and the year ended March 31, 2020. Given the above, we would like to proceed with the question-and-answer session and request you all to seek clarification as you may desire.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Nalin Shah from NVS.

This is Nalin Shah here. At the outset, let me offer my heartiest congratulations for such a good set of numbers amongst this so much of uncertainty. I would like to know what is the latest position on the power plants in India and outside India. And what is the latest position on the Ferro Alloys oil prices in the global markets, which too, I mean, determine our future?

Ashwin, should I?

Yes. You can take this one.

All right. The power plants in India and are driven by the captive consumption of manganese alloys and chrome alloys, respectively, in Telangana and Odisha. They have been operating well post the lockdown. We had a setback during the lockdown for April and May. From June onwards, the operations have been fairly steady. And part of March also was affected. In Zambia, the operations weren't affected. The operations continued at full scale. There was no impact on operations. The COVID impact wasn't there, and the operations are still at normative level there. In terms of Ferro Alloys, also, we had cut down our operations during the lockdown and commenced the operations at full-scale from 1st of June. So there, also, the production levels have been at full level in both Telangana and Odisha plants, and the movements have been happening, respectively, for the direct sale of manganese alloys in Telangana lots and chrome alloys under commercial arrangement with Tata Steel.

Okay. So what is the, like, impact in terms of pricing, both in Zambia as well as in this Ferro Alloys?

Zambia is power -- I mean, it's our power business dedicated to the grid. There's no change there. And in terms of Indian operations, there has been a significant volatility that's seen in the steel and dependent ferro alloy industry as well. We expect that kind of volatility to continue for some more months to come.

What is the distinct position in terms of -- this year, say, Q1, are we expecting any kind of, I would say, that impairment of assets or any extraordinary, I mean, write-offs or any such thing?

There won't be any write-offs. But obviously, the fixed costs weren't recovered fully during lockdown, so to that extent, we would suffer higher cost expense.

Okay. But you don't expect any impairment of assets for this [indiscernible]?

No. No impairment [indiscernible].

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from IDFC Securities.

Congratulations on a good set of numbers. Sir, first question, primarily, sir, firstly, status of receivables at the end of March '20 for Maamba, and has there been some improvement in this quarter? Secondly, sir, is there any [indiscernible] in the detailed press release you mentioned -- it mentioned that you are some kind of a tariff or [indiscernible]. There is a discussion [indiscernible] which is happening? And or [indiscernible] have they either a plan or something with the Zambia government or just [indiscernible]? And thirdly, there's quite [indiscernible] a tariff hike in January. And also, I believe that they also [indiscernible] Copper Belt Energy Corporation supplies mainly to industrial, industrial consumer, is it expected to improve their financial cover? Can you please update us on that?

Yes. Mohit, yes. Mohit, status of the receivable in NCL, this time $279 million as of 31st March. As you may be aware that we have not received the last installment due to the bulk payment, which -- for which the last installment -- first we received the $47 million, so which has also resulted in increase of the receivables. So status quo on the receivables as of now. So Ashwin will take you through the tariff negotiations with ZESCO and discuss current position on the tariff hike and the substantial increase to -- payment of the receivables to MCL.

Yes. No. I think before I talk about ZESCO, just to set the stage of what we have billed and what we have received, I think for FY '20, we had billed about $252 million for the sale of power, and we have received $129 million, which equates to about 51% of what we have billed. But if you kind of look at it from July 2016, when we started the power plant to March 2020, we have billed $774 million, and we have received close to $500 million, which equates to about 64% to 65%. So the situation is not like -- it's not the case where we're not getting any money from ZESCO. I think as you probably are aware, NCL bills and receives about 40% to 50% of the invoiced amount monthly, and which is enough for our operational expenditure, O&M and so on, but is not enough for debt repayment and equity distribution. Now for the debt repayment, we have been receiving lump sum payments from the government now and then, but they are harder to come by nowadays, given the current Zambian economic situation. So what this has resulted in, given the fact that we have not been able to -- I mean, we're not receiving the full monthly amount every month is increased outstanding amount that are kind of gradually going up on a month-on-month basis. And in order to address this, I think the company has taken -- tried to understand the situation, and what the current situation is in terms of ZESCO situation and the government situation and come up with an approach and a plan to address the problems that we are facing in a very realistic manner. So one thing we have started is, with respect to the tariff, is we have started discussions and negotiations with ZESCO -- and keep in mind, this is for future tariffs. It doesn't affect the outstanding amount for the current tariff, but it's for the future tariff. Those negotiations and discussions are underway. And I think the objective of that is to come up with a workable tariff, both for Maamba Collieries and for ZESCO, so as to ensure that ZESCO is able to pay full bill on a monthly basis and on time, and now that is to do with the future tariff. And with respect to the entire outstanding amount that ZESCO currently owes us that has led us to basically initiate a process that is leading towards arbitration with ZESCO over the nonpayment of the outstanding dues and the various breaches in the agreement. This process has been backed by the lenders too because we weren't able to make their -- the principal payment for the last repayment, debt repayment and therefore I think the lenders have backed us in taking this action against ZESCO or initiating the action against ZESCO and the -- against ZESCO to retrieve the outstanding amount.

Ashwin, on the tariff revision since January, what's the effective number?

Okay. So in terms of the tariff revision, yes, there was quite a bit of media releases in terms of 110% hike in terms of commercial and residential tariff, which makes up approximately about 45% of ZESCO's receivable. Yes. The hike was effective from January. But unfortunately, there were 2 factors that prevented ZESCO from really reaping the benefit. One of it was the fact that the kwacha, which is the local currency there, has depreciated by almost 35%. And this tariff revision relates to kwacha receivables, because residential and commercial pay in kwacha. So the depreciation of the tariff really didn't help. And secondly, the consumption of power also decreased fairly drastically. So net-net, although the tariffs had increased for both the residential and commercial, ZESCO's revenues didn't increase proportionately.

[indiscernible] Corporation from June -- 1st June, I think it was a substantial portion, right? And the client revised the bulk supply agreement which [indiscernible] corporation mainly to mining the industry, am I right? And that [indiscernible] financial.

So I'm sorry, what's the question? I didn't get to hear the question.

No. The question is, do you have any rough plan on what kind of an impact will have on the payment to ZESCO's financials with the appropriation of [indiscernible] caution? Will it improve substantially? Or will it be something very incremental?

See, I think we look at this as a positive development. I think -- yes, copper CEC Copperbelt Energy Corporation and ZESCO had a long-term bulk supply agreement and CEC was charging ZESCO a fairly high reeling rate to supply to a lot of the mines, residential and commercial areas in the copper belt. So now that bulk supply agreement has come to an end, and ZESCO has indicated its willingness to supply directly so that they can capitalize on some of those reeling rates and increase their margins. So we see that there is going to be a positive impact in terms of revenue that ZESCO is going to get because now they'll be getting a lot from the mines and so on directly without incurring very large reeling rate. But the exact figure and number is yet to be determined because there's still quite a few discussions that are currently taking place between CEC and ZESCO and the government in terms of reeling and so on.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of B.R. Nahar from Mili Consultants & Investments Pvt. Ltd.

Congratulations for excellent number. I have two questions. One is that whether the company -- the Zambia operation is able to run it in dollar, whatever money we get, it may be in the local currency. So whether the country has a sufficient foreign exchange in dollar to send the money out of Zambia? And the second question is about Colliery operation, mining operations, which has given very good performance during the quarter and whole year, also. So I have in this these two questions that how is the potential? How much we can go up in getting the more quantity of coal sold directly? And whether the realization which you get in the local currency, again, the same question, whether that is sufficient for making the local cost? Or are we in a position to remit out of Zambia in dollar?

Yes. In -- with respect to our Zambian subsidiary, Maamba Collieries Limited, there are 2 parts of the business as you have indicated. One is the power side and one is the mining side. Fortunately, both verticals, both power and mining, are receivables that are in dollars. So we bill in dollars and we receive in dollars. So there is really no forex exposure there. And this includes mining, by the way. When we sell coal to the company and the consumer, we invoice in dollar and collect in dollar. So our exposure to forex fluctuations or the Zambian government's ability to convert to dollars doesn't really exist. Now with respect to the mining operations, like you rightly said, it has performed fairly well, owing to a lot of cost reduction that we had conducted in the past year and also the efficiency of mining that has improved drastically. So that is, by itself, a fairly profitable business. And yes, we are in the process of increasing coal production, so we can cater to larger outside sales, so we can get more revenue. We're in the process of opening up a new pit, which will essentially be catering to outside sales, which will bring in a fair bit of additional revenue.

So can I add my point, one more, that what is the potential in terms of headroom available for increasing the coal production and selling in the local market?

Yes. No. I mean -- see, in terms of increasing production, like what I just mentioned, we are planning on doing that by opening a new pit. When you open a new pit, you can essentially mine out more coal. In terms of the current market being able to absorb more coal, there are certain limitations because today all the big players, cement companies and so on that currently consume coal buys from Maamba Collieries Limited. Although there is some more room to increase wholesale, we are currently doing fairly well in terms of capturing most of the coal-consuming customers. So yes, there is a slight opportunity for us to increase revenue from outside coal, yes.

The next question is from the line of Ayush Mittal from Mittal Analysis Pvt. Ltd.

Sir, I think tracking the company for some time now and if we see over the last couple of years, the problems of receivables have just kept on increasing with passing time. And today, we are having a huge amount of receivable outstanding, and we have not been able to meet the debt obligation, also. So realistically, what is the resolution that you guys are looking at when you are in discussions with the government, because going by the articles and the development, it seems like ZESCO is really -- they may not be able to payments going forward, also. What is the solution that you guys are looking at?

Yes. So in terms of the receivables, like I had mentioned before, I think, essentially, what we're looking at is a very concrete payment plan from both ZESCO and the government. And in order to attain that, we are going through or we've initiated a process that is leading to arbitration in London. And this is with respect to the outstanding receivables. And moving forward, like you rightly said, it's not sustainable us charging what we currently are and ZESCO not being able to pay and the receivable amount increasing on a month-on-month basis. So that is why we have initiated this tariff renegotiation where consultants have been engaged on either side, and we are trying to arrive and attain a tariff, which Maamba can work with, where it ensures enough money for OpEx, for debt servicing, and for equity returns while it also ensures that ZESCO can pay us that amount based on whatever the new tariff is in full on a monthly basis on time.

But we'll have to take haircut on the past receivables in such a case?

No. So that is something that we won't -- at least for now we won't be taking. In fact, ZESCO has also acknowledged the current receivables amount that is outstanding, inclusive of the interest amount. Whatever tariff renegotiation we're talking about is going to be for the future.

And what is the time line for this arbitration that we are talking about because -- yes.

Yes. As you probably know, these arbitrations, they take a while, although the matters may be simple, they do take a while. So I think we are forecasting about 1 to 2 years in terms of the outstanding amount and arbitration. But the tariff negotiation that we are conducting with ZESCO, we foresee that happening in a much quicker time.

Sorry. Just to get a better understanding on this, so since this arbitration doesn't happen -- comes to a final outcome or something, what happens in the meanwhile on our loan obligation? In what way are we obliged? What are the risks on that?

No. See, we have a -- we service our debt twice a year, okay? Once every 6 months. And the way it's been working is we have been getting about $9 million on a monthly basis. And come time for every 6 month, we do -- normally, the government is supplementing with additional amount so that we can meet our loan obligations. As of date, we have made 6 successful principal and interest repayments. Now what has happened recently is because of the current dire economic situation that the government has also been facing a lot of liquidity issues. So they weren't able to really top-up what ZESCO was giving so that we could meet our complete principal and interest obligation. So while the arbitration continues, we are still going to be seeking assistance from ZESCO and the government to give us sufficient funds to meet our loan obligations. And while I say this arbitration could take up to 2 years and so on, we are hoping that this process will yield to some kind of payment plan or result in a much earlier time frame. It doesn't mean we have to go to the end of arbitration to come to a result that's workable for both parties.

No. Actually, what I'm trying to understand, like, as of today, we are not -- we have written in the press release that we have not been able to make the payment to the debtors-- to the lenders. And now that given this thing continues for a year, the mismatch, what risk do we have on the company from the lender side?

Yes. So actually, this arbitration, this move has emanated with the blessing of the lender. Because we have not paid the last obligation, I think we were looking at different avenues and recourses that Maamba could take against ZESCO. And so this has been done in coordination with all the lenders. And I think the lenders have blessed the approach of initiating arbitration against the outstanding amount.

Just to supplement what Ashwin said, you see, it is a multi-prong approach that the company has been adopting. Once you tackle the receivables, so we talk about receivables up to a finite point beyond which the new tariff regime will take over. And we hope that the receivables will stop accelerating from then off. That could happen in the near future. The second part is in terms of debt service, we have actually engaged the lenders on this process. Essentially, what happens is it will be a cash flow driven approach going forward, and lenders are [ seized out the matches ]. So what we plan to do is to seek some kind of a loan restructuring or a balanced installments, including plausibly a slight extension of the tenor of the loan, without impacting either the ratios or the returns on a larger scale. So the lenders, they have appreciated that point because actually everybody is seized out for what is happening in Zambia. And they see that this is the right approach. And they are also looking at that proposal, which is then [indiscernible] proposal which we have. So we hope all these things will fall in place over the next few months because any process requires a lot of action from the lenders, which is comprising of 8 lenders from China and Africa. So we hope these things would be resolved [indiscernible] because everybody in a few months' time. But as far as the payment receivables is concerned, as Ashwin said, this could be a long-term solution. But what we hope to achieve is to have a certain finite time line for getting those loans discharged once were agree for all these things. So that would happen in a few months.

Yes. And just to kind of add, while we are talking of receivables, what the company has achieved is, actually, you may be aware that the O&M services is generating revenue for Nava Bharat Ventures that we are providing to Maamba Collieries. That the company has successfully managed to increase the fees, their monthly fees, which is going to result in approximately a slightly higher number.

The next question is from the line of Bhavesh Chauhan from IDBI Capital.

Sir, again, on this Maamba Collieries, I would like to know now, sir, at what point do we take a write-off from these receivables because these receivables continue to mount? So what is the auditor's opinion on this?

Sultan?

Bhavesh, we do not anticipate any write-off on this receive because this entire debt has been acknowledged by ZESCO in writing along with the interest that's due on the receivables. So we do not see any write-off from this at this point of time. But taking into consideration the long time that it takes for us to receive receivables, we have provided for an expected coverage loss because of the delay in realizing the receivables. So this year, we have provided for an ECS of $22 million on the receivables, taking into consideration the outstanding amount is about 1 year old and discounting at 8%. So we have made a provision, which is a [indiscernible] provision on the ECS for $22 million. At the same time, we do not see any write-off of these receivables.

Okay. And sir, with regards to ZESCO, is it possible to divert our electricity supply to some other party? Or is ZESCO only option for us considering that they are not paying on time?

Yes. Well, the government has -- we have a power-purchase agreement with ZESCO. Now the question is, yes, we can -- the government did approve open access during the later part of last year. So the option is available, but we need to keep in mind that because of the power-purchase agreement that we currently have with ZESCO, we have a government guarantee, okay? So if we decide to now start selling a part or portion of the power to other suppliers or other independent players, we will have to -- the government guarantee will essentially be diluted to that extent. And that forms a big security that a lot of the lenders and we take comfort in; one of the reasons why the government is always -- has been forthcoming to provide additional funds. So yes, I mean, the option is available, but I don't think the time is now where we start looking at other options and entities where we're selling directly.

Especially then the power-purchase supply agreement of CEC has been determined. And ZESCO has started billing directly to the -- some of the copper companies. Our expectation is that ZESCO has a better revenue profile now and also going forward than before. So we have to see that how this present performance will happen even or not.

That was helpful. Just lastly, what would be the weighted average cost of ZESCO's electricity rate that the supplier like you supply to them? Is it above us or it below us or it is somewhere around our realization which is around 0.10?

0.10 is a little higher than their average realization. But then their full cost could be lower. We don't have full detail, but there has been a separate study undertaken by Energy Regulatory Board, they [indiscernible] study. We hope that would actually bring out all these facts, which essentially means on a one-on-one basis, there is no mismatch because it's a full cost versus full revenue. But there could be other issues, which seem to be affecting ZESCO's operations, mostly on the administration side. So we don't know yet, but we'll see that surely.

The next question is from the line of Ajay Jain from [indiscernible] Investment.

Yes. Now my question is, what is the credit risk of ZESCO and what is the default risk of the Zambian government?

I don't think we have reached the point of that kind of a situation because, as you probably have seen, Zambian government has been proactively taking steps to have their fiscal problems being addressed. They have actually going -- they're going through a restructuring program themselves. So I don't think we are looking at a situation where either the government or ZESCO completely default. They have problems currently in meeting the payment obligations, but I don't think it will come down to a point where they will completely shut off.

And to add what GRK, sir, has said, the Zambian government, I think, has a significant amount of assets, which are yet to be unlocked. So we do not see any credit risk as far as Zambian government or ZESCO.

Another question. On the scale of 0 to 10, what are the chances of NCL being nationalized or taken over by the Zambian government? 0 being 0 chance.

See, the government is performing a performing government. We don't need to go by [indiscernible] where the [indiscernible] demanded that kind of action by government. But what we see, Zambian government has been respecting the seat of documents that they have signed on behalf of ZESCO and also on the company. So we don't see that any kind of [indiscernible] action being taken like that. I don't think that is a matter for discussion.

Has there been any past occurrence or certain situation with another company? With another company, not with ours?

So nothing that is similarly placed.

Or have they defaulted on any other obligations?

No. In the sense of [indiscernible]?

Yes.

I think, yes, they have been delayed. That's widely reported as well.

Okay. Another question is, what is the solar power penetration in Zambia? And is that a threat to us?

They have been going through a fallout program. But that's -- but a small portion of the players' total demand. It is more dictated by other considerations. I don't think that would actually supplement our substitute a baseload power like what we have.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is a follow up from the line of Mohit Kumar from IDFC Securities.

Sir, firstly, the ferrochrome business [indiscernible], it was going to expire in March '20. It was extended up to September '20, if I correctly remember. And I believe that Tata Steel has already won just this [ kunda ] mine. Is there any sort of renewals which are happening for this ferrochrome conversion arrangement?

Yes. I think with respect to our Orissa ferrochrome operations, fortunately, there has been a degree of stability during this very volatile time. The current conversion agreement that we have with the Tata is going to run until December of this year. And owing to the fact that, yes, Tata have won various chromite ore mines, we are in discussions and negotiations with Tata on a new conversion agreement that could commence in the part of next year. And we are looking -- at all indications point towards a fairly long-term agreement with them.

Understood, sir. Secondly, so on Telangana, power-purchase contract, I think we had contract which expired on March 20, and I think there was shortage of demand from Telangana. So do you think final reconciliation which have happened for the [indiscernible] supposed to pay for the time period? Or is there something which you can update on that?

Yes. Mohit. Yes, our PPA is Telangana [indiscernible] expired on 31st March. At the end of the PPA, taking into consideration the availability of the plant during the PPA and the actual withdrawal of Transco, we have arrived at the compensation which the Transco is liable to pay to us. We have raised an invoice. But as you know, generally, these negotiations with Transco for settlement of optic compensation takes a very long time. So we have not recognized any of this revenue in our books. We'll recognize it on a receipt basis only. We don't anticipate that it will be settled in the next couple of months. I think it will be -- taking into consideration the current situation with the COVID and all the other factors, availability of the funds with the state governments, we anticipate that it will be [indiscernible] in the year '21.

And then, thirdly, on the interest which we've booked on the receivables from Maamba, at what rate we have booked? And is it completely booked out, so there's nothing left -- can you confirm that?

Yes. It's completely booked. As of March 20, it's completely booked. It's at 8%, I think.

8%. We think...

[indiscernible]

Yes. This is as per the terms of the PPA.

Sure, sir, understood. Sir, lastly, given the fact there is hardly an players for coal linkage, there's hardly any competition, how are you looking to tie up something under a long-term linkage or maybe acquire mines given the fact that the interest on the coal linkage [indiscernible] coal mines are pretty low and we can get it at a decent rate?

Yes. In fact, efforts are underway for both the 150 megawatts, which is under subsidiary as well as for the second 60 megawatt unit at Orissa.

Okay, sir. This is -- you're trying to linkage as well as mine. Am I right, sir?

Breaking, not mine, actually. It's only [indiscernible] linkage under [indiscernible] scheme is what we are pursuing.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Srivatsa, Venkatachalam from UTI Mutual Funds.

Congrats for a good set of results. I have 3, 4 questions. So first is, we did talk about divestments for a fairly long period of time. And obviously, I understand that the current scenario, it's very difficult. But may I know in what stage we are with regard to our key assets, which we have identified, which included the land as well as the sugar business, which we have now discontinued. I mean have you started negotiating or we are still yet to call for tenders? Or is the asset ready to be sold once the situation improves, if you could just update us on that, sir?

Yes. So with regards to the divestment, like you rightly said, this is not the best of time for us to close on anything. We have the sugar asset, which has recently become available. So I think we're looking at various options to unlock the value, both for the assets and the land. And the same applies to the Dharmavaran piece of land, which is about 150 acres that we have there, including -- which is inclusive of a 20-megawatt power plant where we're looking at various options, including joint ventures or for developments or outright sales. But I don't think we are in any stage right now where we can -- where we anything finalized or anything concrete. But yes, markets right now are pretty bad given the current situation. So we think it will take a little longer time.

Sir, my question was more, if I take that land, I think you had also indicated some land in [indiscernible]. I mean is the land ready? I mean if tomorrow you identify a buyer, can the transaction be concluded? Or there is some other process we need to do with the land in terms of transferring the land use or some other kind of process?

No. As far as the Dharmavaran and sugar plants are concerned, probably that's -- time lines are more determined on the current impact of COVID. As far as [indiscernible] land is concerned, there is a small process, but it's not a longer process. Again, it got halted because of this COVID-19 disruption. We hope even that process to be done in the next couple of months, by when if the market improves, then we can get into a straight deal. That's our situation.

And this sugar is a completely integrated unit? Or it is just a -- only a sugar-processing unit?

It's integrated. Well, fully integrated in terms of alcohol in it, I mean ethanol, you need and [indiscernible] of power. So all 3 are there. In fact, ethanol, which has been driving the profitability, to some extent, with base sugar not yielding the required [indiscernible].

Right. And sir, the second question I had was on the status of our Indian subsidiary that [indiscernible], which is having that independent power plant. So given the current scenario where merchant rates are low and there is a lack of demand and [indiscernible] visibility is not there, what is the near to short-term outlook on that for the next 1 year? And I think in one of the meetings with you, I mean, Prasad sir, you had also indicated that we are in talks with some captive players for when to take a stake and make it the captive. So any thoughts on that for subsidiary, sir?

[indiscernible]

Yes, sir. So we've been in discussions with captive consumers for interlinked group captive mechanism for the Nava Bharat energy, 150-megawatt IPP. So we are at fairly advance stage of discussions. We hope that it can be concluded with the approval from the Transco in the next few months, so which may give us a permission for this entity for the next couple of years. So we are evaluating options and we are at advanced stages of discussions.

Right. And the third question was on the debt side, on the stand-alone, it's come to INR 250 crores. So I don't know what was the figure in that Nava Bharat Energy, but if I look at the ex Zambia, what would be the debt? And is there any further plans to reduce the -- I mean, the debt in the current year? Or will it remain at the current level if I look it on an ex Zambia basis?

Indian debt, we are not planning to take any new debt in the current year. And whatever the installments you asked for the repayment mechanism, we are going ahead and clearing it in the current financial year. By end of this financial year, March 2021, we will see some reduction from the current levels. And one of the reasons for slightly increase in the March 31 number was also because of the higher utilization of the working cap, not under long-term debt.

Okay. And sir, you also did mention that you have got some hikes in that O&M. And so is there any big outstanding pending on that O&M fees that we have charged to the Zambian entity? I mean like the normal debtors or that is being cleared as per the process?

That's been cleared. There are no outstanding from that amount. It's part of the regular operating expenditure of the plant.

Okay. And sir, what would be the total fees that we would have received last year in INR terms or USD terms?

Well, last year, our fees, I mean, on a stand-alone basis, I think, was about $10 million, which is set to go up to about $5 million -- by $5 million this year. So we are talking about $115 million appreciation happening this year.

And you're saying there is no outstanding on this fee. We have been getting it -- I mean, like, this revenue has been serviced regularly?

Yes. This is a monthly payment. So we get it every month.

Right. And thirdly...

I think it's important to note that all the operational expenditures from Maamba has being serviced on time, including the other contractors and so on.

Right. And firstly, I think the point is, if I really look at the share price performance for the last 3, 4 years, it's been a very big underperformer, and it's largely because of the fact that we have not been able to collect the receivables in Zambia. So today, the market is actually not giving any value to the Zambian venture, where we have invested probably more than $200 million. So up to what point you will come out and take some action on this, either exploring the sale? Because as a shareholder, it is not yielding us anything for the kind of money that we have invested. I mean if you look at the value distribution in the last 3 years, which is seen by your share price, it is clearly because of this investment where we are not able to monetize. So as a management, you -- I mean, there has to be some time limit. We just can't go back to them and delay it. I mean the process is just getting elongated by every year, every 2 years. And again, probably 2 years down the line, if the situation is the same, we'll be back to square one. So is there any time limit which the management has put or your Board has put that? After that, let's try to explore the sale and let's get the money back because it's -- I mean from a shareholder's perspective, this is not yielding anything for us?

Yes. No. I think let me just state 2 facts. One is it's not a case where it's not yielding anything for the shareholders right now because, like you talked about the O&M services, we do get that on a monthly basis, and that does form a significant part of our stand-alone profits that we are disclosing on a quarter and on a yearly basis. So that revenue does come into the company as what Mr. GRK said about $60 million. Now over and above that, I think it's important to note that the project finance was done on a limited to nonrecourse basis. And there are no more financial commitment or obligations from the parent company's side or Nava Bharat Ventures Limited towards Maamba Collieries, okay? So yes, I mean, it has taken longer than we had expected. But unfortunately, the economic situation has gone -- has become pretty bad in terms of the country and ZESCO. And it is for that very reason that we have initiated this arbitration process, which is the first of a legal process. So I think it's too early to talk about things such as stake sale and so on because we are getting revenue from the operation. Yes. We're not getting equity return now. But we are hoping that once we agree on a reasonable tariff with ZESCO, things will change, where we get our monthly payments on time, and we can start supplementing what we are making on the O&M services with equity distribution.

Okay. No. Sir, my simple point is you have invested -- from Nava Bharat's point of view, you have invested $200 million plus, and we are not seeing any cash return. Yes, you are getting that $15 million, but apart from that, I mean either are we getting the interest payment? So I just look at it as an investment. You can show it in a consolidated figure and you can show a good ROE. But as a shareholder, unless I get that cash, it's of no use to me. That's the simple point I'm just making. And sir, finally, on that loan that we have given to that subsidiary, what is the status? I mean have you recognized that interest? Or it will be on actual cash basis, sir?

No. The loans have been converted to equity. So the $65 million loan, which was converted into equity in the Singapore books. And so interest accrual stopped accruing from third quarter onwards, if you see. But on the other point, your point is well taken. I think the matter is at the top of the mind for all the Board of Directors. We would probably do some action at some point of time, basically, you see, you need to have an asset, which is a quality asset, which is what all these efforts will drive in to be. Once the asset, either functional asset and yielding quality returns, then I think all those steps would make something. At this point, it's probably a little premature, just given the kind of receivable that we have, the kind of issues that we have, I think it is important we put all those issues behind us before we talk about any corporate action.

Right. And sir, just your thoughts on doing any kind of buyback because, again, we are quoting at 0.3, 0.4 price to book, and it is probably amongst the lowest that I can see in the top 500 companies. So we did do a buyback last year. But post this, I mean, stabilization of the economy post-COVID, is there any thought of doing a kind of a follow-on buyback given the kind of valuations that the stock is trading at?

Yes. I think as far as the company is concerned, we've always looked at increasing shareholders' value and, one, possibly by doing continuous buyback. That has always been in our mind. But in today's current situation, every company, I think, is trying to conserve and preserve cash as much as possible because we don't know what tomorrow is going to look like. And I think one of the reasons why we are able to operate the way we are and debt levels being low is because we're not taking on additional debt. So I think the Board will take an appropriate decision on the buyback based on cash flows. But yes, it is our intention that down the line, we will continue doing buyback.

As there are no further questions from the participants, I now hand the conference over to Mr. Shirish Rane for closing comments.

Sir, would you like to say any closing comments?

Yes. I think -- thank you very much, everyone, for your participation in the call. I hope we have addressed all the queries adequately. Or if there any questions or clarifications that remain unanswered, please get back to us, and we'll be happy to provide answers on a wider investor platform. Thank you all once again, and stay safe.

Thank you. On behalf of IDFC Securities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.