Nava Limited (513023) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Momita, moderator for the conference call. [Operator Instructions] Please note this conference is recorded. I would now like to hand over the floor to Mr. Mohit Kumar from DAM Capital. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Momita. On behalf of DAM Capital, we welcome you all to the Q4 FY '22 Earnings Call of Nava Bharat Ventures Limited. From the management side, we have Mr. Ashwin Devineni, CEO; Mr. Sultan Baig, CFO; Mr. GRK Prasad, Executive Director; Mr. VSN Raju, Company Secretary, and Mr. Nikhil Devineni, Senior Vice President. Without much delay, I will hand over the floor to Mr. Ashwin Devineni for the opening remarks, which will be followed by Q&A. Over to you, sir.

Thank you, Mohit, and a very good morning to everyone. Thank you for joining us for our year-end and quarter 4 results discussion. I hope everyone is keeping safe. I believe all would have gone through our results and press release. It is particularly gratifying to be celebrating the company's goal and duty when the business outlook looks promising. Our FY '22 stand-alone performance is a testimony of our resilience, tenuously built over the last 5 decades and over several commodity prices. I will begin this session by giving a quick run-through of our businesses and corporate plans. The Manganese alloy business reported robust growth during FY '22 on the back of sustained high demand from the steel industry, coupled with advanced procurement of manganese ore. The onset of the 60 megawatts IPP from June 2021 brought about resurgence in the Odisha works. The company subsidiary secured exploration rights on a manganese ore concession in Ivory Coast, West Africa, affording further value-add opportunities. A significant margin play in the power business was seen with spurts in IEX and short-term trades, though coal cost and availability thereof continue to remain a major concern. The Zambian coal mining business attained traction with higher volume and better realizations. The Zambian subsidiary expects a lasting solution on the power offtake front to emerge soon paving way for sustainable business and cash reserves. The 300-megawatt power plant is running at full capacity post the major overhaul of the 2 units in Zambia. The monetization efforts concerning the land assets of the company got revived through a favorable judicial order at Telangana aside from regulatory clearance in Andhra Pradesh. I trust that all of you have gone through the detailed statements of the financial results filed with the stock exchanges and uploaded on our website. I would now look forward to an active interaction with all of you on this call for any further clarifications. Thank you.

[Operator Instructions] Our first question from [ Mr. Srinivasa Rao Mandava ], individual investor.

First, numbers, what is the state of our arbitration proceedings to be received? On what ground they have gone for appeal against the interim arbitration award?

Yes. So in terms of the arbitration process, which is currently ongoing. As you probably know, there was an interim order for about $250 million, which they have appealed, but discussions are currently underway with ZESCO to recover that amount. In terms of the grounds of appeal, I think the matter is in the middle of arbitration. So I'm not at liberty to talk about the particular details of the arbitration on this call.

Our next question from [ Mr. Bharat H. Shah ], he is an individual investor.

Sire, our management has in the last 40, 50 years, they have created a good infrastructure in our country. So in future, whether we are going to go with their expansion, big expansion in India because there is a lot of scope in power sector and other [ data ] sector. So I want to know about this?

I think as a company, in the last 40, 50 years, yes, we did create a lot of value and we have a fairly significant presence in India. In terms of expansion, we're always looking at new opportunity, where we weigh out the benefits and also the risk. So if there are new promising opportunities and there are synergies with currently what we do, then we will definitely explore it irrespective of location.

Next question from Mr. Prem Patel from DAM Capital.

Yes. So firstly, congratulations on a very good set of numbers. So my question to you is how much coal are you expecting to sell in Zambia for FY '23?

Yes. So in terms of our Zambian coal, I think what we have forecasted for this year is about 40,000 tonnes on a monthly basis, in terms of outside sales, meaning not selling to our power plant, but outside customers. 40,000 a month, that's what we forecasted.

Okay. And sir, how are the realizations for ferro alloys? And what's the outlook for '23?

I think the realization of ferro alloys for FY '22 have been outstanding. The average realization per metric tonne was up 42% over the preceding year at about INR 95,000. Going forward, fortunately, we have made a lot of advanced bookings for which we are essentially sold out for Q1, and even in Q2, we have very limited quantities available. So in the near term, the outlook looks good. And moreover, 30% of our production is linked up with a large Japanese consumer on fixed -- I mean, on an indexed basis. So that kind of insulates us from any major volatility in the market going forward.

Next question is from [ Mr. Gunath Singh from Counter Cycle PMS ].

So we just discussed about the realization of ferro alloys. And we also know that the coal prices have also at an all-time high. So can we like discuss the price trend of coal prices, coal realization basically? And what we expect them to be in the coming quarters?

Sorry, I think you're talking about domestic coal. You're talking about the Zambian coal realizations?

Yes. The domestic coal realizations.

Okay. [ So within that ] see the Zambian coal scenario has to be looked at from the asset of Zambia's main landlock and we can only service the customers in and around Zambia, invest with good access to the neighboring countries. So in that respect, the pricing limitation exists. So we, however, have a good grade realization in that particular aspect. And we expect that price to be insulated from all market prices as has happened earlier, too. When the coal prices are fluctuating there was no change in Zambian coal sale realization. So that way, you could expect steady revenue line as far as coal sales are concerned in Zambia.

Is there some trend in terms of the coal prices? So when we say the price is isolated, so the global coal prices are going high still that will be...

Yes, that is what I was trying to tell you. The global coal price trends do not have any impact on Zambian coal prices. For the simple reason, the Zambian coal can't be brought to your port and exported with the largest fixed costs becoming a major [ deterrent ]. So though the coal prices across the world have been going up and all. There has been a steady price line as far as Zambian coal operations are concerned.

All right. I have another question. So we discussed about the situation in terms of the recovery of $250 million from the Zambian government. So in terms of that, do we have any expectations like with regards to the recovery in terms of when we will get the payment or any progress made in that scenario?

Yes. So I mean, one thing to note is there is a liquidity issue with the utility and the government as it stands. But on a positive note, I think once the new government has taken over and even the new management of the utility has taken over, we see quite a bit of light at the end of the tunnel because what we've seen is a real proactive approach from them to actually say we want to resolve the situation, both in terms of the areas and in terms of moving forward with the prospective tariff. So for our -- what we hear are efforts are underway for the utility and the government to secure some loans, a large financing to bring to-date a lot of these areas. So nothing has materialized yet. But we are in constant discussions with the utility now in terms of them paying us what that was.

We have the next question from [ Mr. Hanesh Aluri ], he is an individual investor.

Yes. How much top line growth can we expect from mining in FY '23?

I think investors seem to be a little confused about this coal scenario in Zambia. Let me make it very clear. The coal sales in Zambia happen in and around Zambia and the top line growth has a certain limitation because of the situation, very typical situation that is happening in Zambia. It is not comparable to any other high value mineral like a copper, where some investors tend to do that kind of comparison. You must I mean understand, the coal dynamics are broadly different from the company. So the landlock situation of the Zambian subsidiary makes it inevitable that we do the geographical sales in and around Zambia and best to [ CRP ] and our neighboring countries. So that's why the top line growth will have that limitation as Ashwin indicated. We expect the ramp-up of sales to be about 40,000 tonnes every month. That's -- I think it will trail the same kind of price realization has happened last year.

Next question from Mr. Amanjit Singh from Oculus Capital.

Sir, my questions pertaining to the mining segment. Sir, in the quarter, we've had a top line of INR 93 crores, but our segmental EBIT shows INR 187 crores EBIT that's a 201%. Sir, could you please explain that?

Give us a moment.

Mr. Singh, could you elaborate which numbers are you referring to?

Sir, I'm looking at the consolidated statements, segmental accounts after the financial are disclosed, when you give the segment between power, ferro alloys and mining. So in that, we can see that the mining revenue is INR 93 crores, but the EBITDA that is the profit deferred taxable interest is INR 187 crores.

Two concepts here. The Mining division on revenue from 2 sides. One is sales to external customers. And second is the sales to the power plant. So when we are showing the sales in the topmost segment when you are seeing segmental revenue, that is from the mining sales to third-party customers. Whereas in the EBIT, when you're seeing the mining profit of INR 186 crores, it is from the sales to the power plant, which is an internal customer as well as third-party customers.

No, sir, in the revenue also, that would be included right because we have an entire segmental of INR 182 crores. So the revenue would be both captive as well as external sales, right? So it would be a like-for-like revenue and the EBIT both will be pertaining from captives and external sales, right?

But I must say the revenues here only captured the third-party sales system.

But sir, I mean why the sudden jump, sir? I mean, in the previous quarter, it was INR 44 crores, right? And the previous quarter to that was INR 34 crores, and that has been kind of the run rate in the INR 35 crores to INR 40 crores range. But this sudden jump to INR 187 crores, sir.

Mr. Singh the revenue in the previous quarter was INR 93 crores.

Yes, sorry, I was talking about the EBIT, sir, the absolute EBIT was about INR 44 crores in the previous quarter for mining, right? And it's been in that range only the INR 34 crores to INR 45 crore range. But in this quarter, it has jumped to INR 187 crores.

Mr. Singh, what we would do is, we will revert back to you off-line on the numbers.

Okay. Sir, because it was a little confusing to me because if there's any change in the way you're accounting -- because how would we get like double the EBIT of the revenue that, so that was...

You're absolutely right Mr. Singh. Like I clarified this is because of the, I think, inclusion of the profits from internal sales as well as external sales, maybe because of some disclosure requirements, which auditors have taken this year, we will revert that to you off-line to our investors e-mail account.

Sure, sure. Sir, and just one 1 small follow-up. So part I'm a little new to the company. So what are the discontinued operations that are disclosed, sir?

Mr. Singh, you may be aware that about 2 years back, we had shut down our sugar plant operations in Samalkot, we had been running the sugar plant business. We discontinued that. And we are in the process of disposal of those assets. So discontinued operations profit is from the registered money realizing the disposal of the assets over to book value of the assets.

The next question from [ Mr. Abhishree Shah ], he is an individual investor. There's no response from the number we'll move on with next question in the meanwhile. Question comes from [ Sonali Rao, SR Equity Advisors ].

Congratulations for the amazing set of numbers. Sir, my question is this one long and uncertain area is our NCL power plant. So how is the management tackling that? And we haven't seen any progress being made there? We are continuing with -- they're continuing the operations without cash coming in. So what would be the inflation point where management would take a call of operations? Where is an investor becoming viable?

Yes. I think 2 things. One is from the time that I think the new government was formed and the new management of the utility took over, we have seen significant progress, which I did reiterate, I think, on a previous question. On the area of arbitration is taking care of it. And -- but on the prospective tariff moving forward, we've actually made a lot of progress to the extent that we're getting various shareholders' approval to formalize probably a new arrangement, which we would disclose once it's closed. So that would actually take care of the [indiscernible] operations moving forward and, where shareholders and Nava Bharat could possibly see dividends flowing through. Apart from that, although we have been running and continuing operations for the past few years, one thing to note is, we are also involved in the operations and maintenance of the company, and we do see revenue flowing in through the operations and maintenance of the power plant at Maamba, which is being done essentially through one of our subsidiaries. So I think in nutshell, the picture looks a lot better than it probably looked during our last investor call. We've made significant traction, but unfortunately, certain developments we cannot disclose at this point of time until we get all shareholders' approval.

So we have a follow-up question from [ Mr. Srinivas Rao Mandava ], individual investor.

Sir, in the index presentation, it is mentioned that the management is pursuing very good demand for [ NSG ] in South Africa, Southern Africa. Are we allowed to use the Maamba coal mine for production of power in other countries, in and the round Zambia?

Yes. So the short answer to that is, yes, there's something called the Southern Africa power pool, which is basically a network that connects all the Southern African countries. And in fact, in continuation to probably the previous question, we see a lot of opportunity arising because not only in South Africa, but also in Zambia, Congo and so on. A lot of companies are increasing copper production and smelting, which requires a lot of power. We have seen the scenario now where demand for power is increasing tremendously in that region, but the supply is very limited. So we see that as an opportunity for power plant, and we can really utilize it by selling power to other Southern African nations using the Southern African power pool.

Okay. Sir, one more follow-up question. What is the plan of our monetization Moula Ali 64-acres land parcel?

So that's -- the [ USC ] court case is something that we've been fighting for quite a long time, and we are glad to announce that the verdict went in our favor. So as a company, we are looking to monetize these assets. As you probably know, it's a very large amount of land. So monetization of that could take a little time. So -- and I think once that is done as a company, we would plan on utilizing that money to decisively take the certain corporate actions to improve shareholder value. And also help fund growth capital for our existing verticals and for our new verticals -- and the new verticals that we are getting into.

What about Dharmavaram land the [indiscernible] coal plant of 20 megawatt is it in operation there?

Yes. The Dharmavaram land and so on and unfortunately, there has been no progress yet, so there's nothing for us to report on.

About the 20 megawatts power unit project is it in operation?

No. Unfortunately, that is not in operations given the high coal prices. So right now, it is still an idle and -- but we're looking at ways to operationalize it.

Next question from [ Ms. Monika Arora from Global Secure ].

Congratulations on a good set of numbers, yes, and also many, many congratulations to you for your land parcel getting cleared. So I just wanted to understand what could be the realizable value for the land parcel? And by what time we can see the realization is coming in our books?

In terms of the value, I think it's a little premature to say that we are involving a couple of the large real estate brokers. And I think -- we're still in the initial stages because the verdict recently have come out. And in terms of timelines, like I just said, it will take a little time given the size of the parcel. So it may take a year or 2, but as a company, we do our best to monetize it in the quickest possible amount of time.

Okay. Okay. And my second question is, have we received our partial award from ZESCO like $250 million? And how are we currently supplying them? Are we still supplying them given that they have dishonored our payments? Just wanted to get a clarity on that?

Well, yes, with respect to your first question, And, we've not received the $250 million because they've also challenged the awards, the interim award of the $250 million. But discussions are currently underway between our company and ZESCO in terms of how they plan on paying the $250 million. That process is currently underway in courts and out of courts. In terms of continuing to operate the power plant, I think we must realize that it's not like we're not getting anything from that ZESCO. Today, on a monthly basis, we get about $11 million to $11.5 million every month from ZESCO, which is not the full payment of the bill, but it is a significant amount, which at least helps us continue running operations and servicing interest. Now discussions with ZESCO are underway and they've advanced very well to figure out a win-win situation for a prospective workable tariffs. So tomorrow onwards, there are no defaults in terms of the monthly billing. And I think as it stands right now for the total amount billed, we have received 55% of what we have billed from them. So the amount outstanding is about 45%.

The next question from Mr. Naveen Jain from Suntree -- Florintree Advisors.

Yes. Sir, I have a couple of questions. First on your Zambian operations, so you mentioned that you are getting about USD 11 million, USD 12 million every month, USD 11 million, USD 11.5 million every month as payment. I see that your last year revenue -- last quarter revenue is about USD 84 million so is it that on an ongoing basis, we are getting less than 50% of what we are billing from them till the resolution happens?

Yes. So the $11.5 million to kind of add has kicked in recently. I think prior to that, we were getting between $8 million to $9 million. So ZESCO slowly kind of improving what they pay us on a monthly basis. But that -- and yes, it is 50% or slightly less of what we bill but I think, as I did mention, we are in discussions at a very advanced stage with them in terms of a tariff that is workable both for ZESCO and for MCL, and I think once that gets all the shareholders' approval, we won't be seeing any deficit on the monthly payments.

Is there a timeline that one can put to this resolution or this discussion because it's been ongoing for quite some time?

We're very close to resolving it. I don't want to give a timeline, but I would say just a couple of months away, if not earlier.

Understood. Okay. Fair enough. Sir, in the standalone entity, now we are generating a good amount of cash given the cycle, and now we have net cash also and plus, we expect some sort of monetization to happen, right, from the land bank. So what is going to be the CapEx outlook we have a project that we will be looking at in the standalone entity going forward?

Yes. So I mean at a macro level, it's basically, I think we want to undertake certain corporate actions, which will definitely impact the shareholder value. But as a company now, we finished 50 years, we're moving to the next stage of the company. We are expanding our existing verticals to have a very dominating presence in the domestic and international markets in terms of what we do. And we are also planting seeds in verticals where we see a very good potential and growth optional opportunity in the future. So all that requires capital. So I think we will be looking at both these avenues to deploy the cash that we currently are generating and the cash that will be generated from the monetization efforts.

Understood. I think in the last quarter, you mentioned about some foray into health care if I'm not wrong. So has there been any progress on that front? And where will this investment come from, from the standalone entity or is it from Zambia operation?

Yes. So in terms of the Healthcare segment, we're already in health care initially in a small way where we have been setting up preventive health care medical centers. We've set up one which has been very successful. We've been seeing almost 70% growth on a quarter-on-quarter basis. So in terms of -- and we're also in pharmaceutical distribution, for certain niche runs. So with respect to the clinic mid plan on, we see there -- and especially after COVID, where people are a lot more health conscious, the people are getting themselves screened and treating their allergies and their deficiencies. We feel big opportunity there, and we're looking at probably scaling out and advocating the medical centers in other metropolitan cities. The second question is with regards to funding, right?

Yes.

Yes it's -- the initial infusion took place from the parent company. So the other company has nothing to do with it.

Okay. And how much we have invested so far? And what is the plan to invest further in this business? That's my last question.

Well at this point, the outlay is about $4 million, and we expect the ramp up also to happen gradually. So our expectation is that maybe about $10 million is what we probably should be spending in enhancement of these wellness clinics.

Around $10 million?

That's right. Could be spread over a couple of years.

Spread over?

Could be spread over a couple of years.

Next question from Mr. Chetan Shah from Jeet Capital.

Sir, just 1 quick question. You kind of nicely articulated the growth plan and all the other things. I just wanted to understand your view on our core business, which is basically Ferro and power, and also our Zambia business, the kind of cash flow which we are generating, how do you see this business shaping up in next 3 to 5 years in terms of your CapEx plan, expansion of big picture apart from the diversification into pharma and other businesses, which you just answered the previous analyst. That will be very helpful, please.

In terms of the existing businesses where we have been there for the last few decades, our idea is to have a consolidation in terms of integration. And to see that that business sustain notwithstanding the market [ value ], which are very difficult on this particular industry. And as far as expansion is concerned, we are definitely looking at as our colleagues have indicated earlier on, the expansion has to come with a kind of an input security where the efforts are currently underway. Once those are -- the expansion plans also will get some time. That's the plan. And in terms of sizing or anything, we don't have any specific plan. The idea is that we keep this as the core business activity of the company and look at other areas of growth, which could give regular income stream, irrespective of how the commodity cycles behave. That's the internal plan of the company. We would probably come back with more crystallized views on this in the coming quarters.

And just one last follow-up question on that. When you spoke about your noncore and pardon me for using the specific word because this is outside of what we are bring over a year, which is a pharma and new edge businesses. What kind of capital allocation and opportunity you are looking at in that part of the business, just being a shareholder trying to understand that, that how are we trying to allocate the cash flow which we generate from a business is to the new business, which has a relatively better visibility in terms of the consistency vis-à-vis our commodity business? If you can just throw some light on that. That's it from my side and wish you all the best.

Yes. So in terms of the noncore businesses, I think the 2 things that stand out is one is health care. And the other thing is also the agriculture development where we're looking at our to growth and possibly other crops. Now the reason we're getting into this is we see in the very bright future. They are less government dependent, and they have tremendous amount of export potential, especially with respect to the agricultural side. In terms of capital outlay for these, we have to come back to you in terms of detailed numbers, but we are probably looking at around $50 million to $60 million, but that's spread over a duration of time. So that's essentially what we're looking at.

The next question is from [ Mr. Abhishree Shah ], individual investor.

Congratulate on the excellence of numbers. So basically, I have 2 questions. What is the road map going ahead for the company? Could you -- so what do you see coming forward?

Yes. So as I mentioned previously, we are at a very crucial juncture we completed 50 years, and we're getting to the next page. In terms of where we are going now is 1, is we've done very well in our existing verticals, we have a very strong presence. And we plan on expanding that presence in other geographies. And there are a couple of things that we're looking at, such as the mining in Ivory Coast the Maamba already plan possibly expanding and the other ventures related to currently what we're doing. The second thing is, we discussed this briefly in my previous question, is planting seeds in verticals where we see a very promising future and a growth plan. And in terms of that, we have -- we are pursuing agriculture, our part to be more specific and also be health care.

Okay. And sir, one more. So what's the power status at our Indian operations, what kind of EBITDA or unit we are making at this point of time?

The more relevant question would have been the, there is a cost of coal that is obtained in these small plants. But that seems to be absolutely going away with the coal companies talking kind of a [ different ] pricing and availability also becoming a laser issue for us. So if you answer that, the EBITDA margins have been there very comfortable. But what we see is in specific location wise, we offer some on account of higher coal costs, whereas in the other location, at least the coal India seems to be delivering all right.

So we will move in with the next question. It comes from [ Ms. Monica Arora from Globe Secure ].

A follow-up question. So as you said that you are receiving USD 12 million every month. So any backward calculation you have done, which you think is a win-win situation? Or let me ask the other way around, what tariffs is, say, revised you are targeting? Like I would just -- sorry, sorry. So just a directional number, not exact number I want, yes.

I'm not going to get into specifics because the discussions and negotiations are currently underway. But what I can say is, we definitely have done calculations. And I think what we are close to agreeing with the utility and -- pending all shareholder approval is something that is a win-win and a workable solution for [indiscernible].

We have a question from Mr. Ankit Sonkhiya from Oculus Capital.

Congratulations on the great set of results. Sir, I'm looking at the consolidated financial information, and I saw that the ferro alloys and power segments have come down Q-o-Q. But the extraordinary performance has been done by the mining segment, which went up from INR 44 crores to INR 187 crores. Just want to know how sustainable this performance is in the mining. And from the previous quarter's call, I remember that you had mentioned that the mining in Zambia because it is landlocked, you cannot sell it to other regions. And you are not getting that kind of benefit in the coal mining, then probably the other miners are having across the world because of the higher coal prices. So just wanted to know what has happened in this quarter which basically increased our profits from INR 44 crores to INR 186 crores because most of the earnings are coming from this segment now in this quarter?

Thank you, Ankit. Regarding the segmental revenue that you pointed out with regard to power and mining, I think there has been a slight interchange of numbers. So we will -- like we told Mr. Singh earlier. We will revert back on the numbers. But...

Okay, okay. So you are saying there is some issue in the numbers, right?

In the segmental reporting, not on the overall numbers but the growth in net power revenues as compared to previous quarters. If you've seen topmost block. There is an increase in power sales from INR 605 crores in the previous quarter to INR 717 crores in the present quarter.

Okay. So probably the mining profit is the power profit?

Yes. More or less.

No, Ankit. We'll get back to you on the numbers.

Yes, we'll get back to you on the numbers. But just in general, the mining revenue and profitability is also increasing. I think if you compare it based on the previous year, we have significantly improved in terms of the sales quantities and in terms of the revenue. Yes, we are landlord, which has its advantages and disadvantages. But what we are finding in Zambia is that the demand for coal is increasing with increase in industries, increase in copper production and so on. We're seeing an increased demand both in Zambia and in Congo, which we plan on capitalizing. So we see it as a very promising sector for us.

Okay. And when we say intersegment revenue of approximately INR 185 crores, this INR 185 crores is we are selling coal to the power entity? Or is there any other intersegment revenue as well?

Like you have clarified earlier, there is some slight interest change in the numbers, which will be.

No, that include -- that includes the internal sale of power in Indian operations as well.

Okay, okay so the ferro alloys segment.

Yes.

The next question from [ Mr. Dwarka Pasad ], he is an individual investor.

Congratulations for good set of numbers. I hope that the company has good case and doing very well now. Is there any immediate plan for buyback of shares from the company?

No. There's nothing that we can announce right now. As we -- as I mentioned previously, I think we always endeavor to execute corporate actions that will improve shareholder value. The Board is deliberating various options, and we will let the public know at the right time.

And sir, we have a follow-up question from [ Mr. Srinivasa Rao Mandava ], individual investor.

Sir, we are seeing any power purchase agreement for [ NBEIL ] plant and what is the growth of coal supply to this unit that 150-megawatt unit in Palwancha?

Unfortunately, there are no power purchase agreements that are in place, what we have been doing is having our power [ expand ] through IEX route mostly accepting for a very short-term centers that are coming up. Other than that, there's been no PP.

Sir, we have one question from [ Mr. Vijay P. ], he is an individual investor.

My first question is on the ferro alloy fall in sales in quarter 4 versus quarter 3? When we are saying at the end in the quarter 3 conference call that we have fully sold out the collection, why was there a fall in sale of silico manganese from 33,000 in quarter 4 '21 to 24,000 since quarter 4, 2022?

Sure. So in quarter 4, we were indeed sold out, but what happened is that there was a decrease in the production volumes owing to a major shutdown that we had to take in quarter 4. So that's the reason the volumes have come down. And as a result, the sales realization also have decreased slightly.

So when you are saying you are sold out for quarter 1, '23, is that problem going to come again? Or is it going to maintain the 125,000 level for the year?

125,000 is the rated capacity of the plant. Now every year, we do have certain routine maintenance shutdowns, which are envisaged. So if you do to into account, the production volumes to drop below the rated capacity of the unit. But going forward, for FY '23, we forecast to have a higher production volume than we did in FY '22.

Next question is from the dividend point. From the INR 90 crore dividend that we paid this year against stand-alone profit of INR 381 crore and consolidated profit of INR 573 crores, it makes 25% of stand-alone profit and 15% of consolidated profit. Are these percentages going to be maintained in the future as we go?

I think as a rule that we normally follow for dividend deterioration. We've been about 20% of stand-alone profits. And I think given that this is our golden jubilee year and the profitability that we have attained, we have declared the following dividend.

So we are -- this is roughly about 23%. Is that going to be maintained in future?

Well, what do you plan on maintaining, which is kind of the rule that we are following is about 20% of the stand-alone?

All right. Power shortage in Zambia is what you said in the earlier talk today. Are there any plans for the expected 300-megawatt plant?

Yes. So what we've seen actually in the past few months is something that is fairly promising. We've seen a fair bit of demand both from the Zambian side and from DRC, which is 1 of the biggest copper producing nations in the world, so it's too early to say right now. I think we need to first resolve the current issue, and then have concrete discussions on Phase I. But long story short, I don't think we'll rule it out.

Exactly. That was the point that I was making. what are the chances that Maamba, MCL will be in a Chinese debt like Sri Lanka?

No. I think comparing apples to oranges here, we have been servicing the interest that the Chinese lenders are completely aware of the situation. In fact, there supportive of the situation. We have been discussing with ZESCO in terms of a workable institution for which we will advanced a great deal. So I don't think the same situation as what you see in Sri Lanka.

Let's hope for the best. Manganese ore mine in Ivory Coast, is it located -- where is it located? And is it landlocked?

It's not landlocked, Ivory Coast is -- it is not a landlock country. And the mine is located at about 200 kilometers from the, which is [indiscernible].

No, my question was with respect to the -- with the experience that we have had with Simandou mine in Guinea, which is the last 25 years, not becoming operational because it is landlock. There is no access to the mine. There is no such problem with this manganese ore mine, it is accessible by road or rail?

Yes. You have a single good infrastructure, good roads and highways that connect the port city, which is a capital to mine.

Any timeline for when it will be operational?

So exploration works are under way right now. We are making good progress in that regard. In terms of [indiscernible] the next 3, in fact, and the exploration is to get an assessment of the reserves and also in terms of the quality of the ore so once we have those data available with us, we can then have a finalized timeline for operationalizing the mine.

My last question, what is the do land price per -- in Nacharam?

What is the land you asking about price in Nacharam?

Yes. If I had to buy land in Nacharam, price per square meter that I like to pay commercial?

This is Nikhil. I'm not a real estate agent, unfortunately. So I mean, I don't want to be the prevailing rates.

All right. All actions we are earlier declined to quote the -- what will be the realization on 64 acres. That's why I am asking putting my question in a different way.

Yes. But unfortunately, prices move. I think we are engaging experts that do that work and who can get us.

Ladies and gentlemen, this was the last question for this call. I would now like to hand over the floor to the management of Nava Bharat Ventures for closing comments.

Hello, everyone. Once again, thank you very much for your participation in the call. I hope you addressed all the queries adequately. And is there any questions or classifications that remain on. Please get back to us, and we'll be more than happy to provide answers on a wider investor platform. Thank you all once again, and stay safe.

Ladies and gentlemen, with this, we conclude our conference call for today. Thank you for your participation and for using Door Sabha's conference call service. You may disconnect your lines now. Thank you, and have a pleasant day.