Navkar Corporation Limited (NAVKARCORP) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Navkar Corporation Q4 FY '21 Earnings conference call, hosted by Antique Stock Broking. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Prateek Kumar from Antique Stock Broking Ltd. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Hello, all. Good morning. On behalf of Antique Stock Broking, a warm welcome to all in the conference call for Navkar Corporation Fourth Quarter FY '21. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on facts, beliefs, opinions and expectation of the company as on date of this call. These statements are not guarantees of future performance and involve risks and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. Now I'll hand over the call to Mr. Anish Maheshwari, CFO of Navkar Corporation, for his opening remarks, and then we'll move to Q&A. Over to you, sir.

Thank you, Prateek, and I would like to thank first to Antique Capital. Good afternoon, everyone. Warm welcome to everyone present on the call. I have with me [ Mr. Nitin ] and Mr. Krunal from my team. As we all are aware that last whole year was having a situation of COVID pandemic. After a span of year, the things are gradually improving and enter into a new normal with a positive outlook. Throughout the year, we all are affected by this, but we observed the growth in revenues was positive being engaged in the essential services. In the fourth quarter, the business volumes continue to be a track of growth and tenor of the company rose from INR 190.04 crore in third quarter to INR 213.61 crore in the fourth quarter. The factors contributing to growth this year are as follows: in case of ICD PFT, volumes of import containers handled increased by 22% from 30,622 TEUs to 37,460 TEUs on Q-o-Q basis. And from 21,513 TEUs on a Y-o-Y basis, the same is now up to 74% up. And the volume of export containers over there at the ICD handled increased by 20% from 14,514 TEUs to 17,345 TEUs on Q-o-Q basis. And from 12,378 TEUs on Y-o-Y basis, the same is now up by 40%. In case of CFS at Bombay, volume of import container handled increased by 9% from 29,587 TEUs to 32,388 TEUs on Q-o-Q basis. And from 26,096 TEUs on year-on-year basis, the same is now up by 24%. And volume of exports container handled increased by 18% from 24,412 TEUs to 28,728 TEUs on Q-o-Q basis. And from 33,000 TEUs on Y-o-Y basis, this is -- the same has declined by 15% at Bombay CFS. Number of trains handled increased from 270 in last quarter to 324 at CFS and PFT and from 613 to 774 at ICD PFT, which is then overall raised by 24% on Q-o-Q basis. Compare the same with the Y-o-Y basis, the trains handled was 234 on CFS and PFT and 367 in ICD, which is overall raised by 83%. EXIM turnover rose from INR 144.77 crores to INR 168.28 crores on Q-o-Q basis, means a raise of 16%. This is a raise by 36% from same quarter by last year, INR 123.97 crores. Company is committed to the path of growth to extend the clients base in EXIM as well as the domestic turnover. In term of revenue and business, this quarter was best in the history of company. There were challenges in COVID era, but the performance of company was positive in term of growth in the company's business volume and revenue. Now coming to the profit figures of the quarter 4 FY 2020. Operating profits of current quarter stand by INR 68.69 crores in a comparison of INR 72.73 crores in preceding, one which showed a decline by 6%. This was a slight decline in spite of rise in turnover belongs to the following reasons: Change and commodity mix of cargo handling leading by the more handling cost in the hands of the company due to the nature of commodities in EXIM volumes as well as the domestic volumes, increase in empty movement due to EXIM mix of 45 versus 53 to 47.53. Due to COVID pandemic, there was a continuous scarcity of manpower in the areas of operations and labor in the field. Along with that, the fluctuations in diesel prices also played a role in the increase of cost variables. EBITDA margin of current quarter stand at INR 40.83 crores in comparison of INR 46.51 crores in preceding term, which showed a decline of 8.5%. Apart from decline in operating profits, as I mentioned above, the reasons attributed to the fall in EBITDA margins were returning of the debtors amounting of INR 1.07 crores, including the other expenses. There was -- belongs to debtors who were unable to pay the storage company's retention charges due to the COVID pandemic crisis. There was no such impact in the last quarter as well as last year. Booking of notional losses of INR 2.56 crores as loss on sale of old vehicles, the same is included in the other expenses for the P&L. The depreciation cost of company declined by INR 1.61 crores in current quarter as compared to that, the last one. The reason for such changes was even in the useful life of railway siding at the location of ICD and in line with that of CFS. Profit before the tax of current quarter at INR 14.82 crores in the comparison to INR 18.05 crores on Q-o-Q basis and that of INR 14.57 crores on a Y-o-Y basis. Profit after tax of company stands at INR 8.15 crores in a comparison to INR 13.90 crores on a Q-o-Q basis and INR 8.59 crores on a Y-o-Y basis. Apart from reasons mentioned above, one more impact was rise by income tax expenses from 14 -- INR 4.14 crores to INR 6.68 crores on Q-o-Q basis. This includes a change of amount, deferred tax impact due to decline in booking of MATs and booking by INR 1.8 crores in a comparison of last quarter due to the decline in gross margins. Now coming to the area, borrowings, I would like to stand that the borrowings from bank and financial institutions as held by company increased by INR 63.16 crores from INR 439.70 crores as on the 31st December 2020 to INR 502 crores as on 31st March 2021. This was due to following events during the quarter: Sale of 103 old trailers, which were free from finance; and purchase of over 200 new vehicles, new trailers being financed; repayment of working capital of INR 41.42 crores during the quarter; availment of [ ACLDL's ] facility of INR 46.31 crores during the quarter. After analysis of above points, I hereby like to state that the company's performance and growth of revenue was pleasant and the impact of profitabilities footprint of -- getting soft at abnormal items of the expenses and current quarters as discussed so far. I would like to add here the low point. Company was having one investigation from GST department. It was in relations to GSTR filing by the company and there were the differences moved by them. And that was -- this was due to the parties were not filing return on time. And because of that, we had a liability of INR 1.8 crore, but out of which, almost around INR 1.05 crores, which we had taken credit in this current year. Looking at this companies -- looking at these situations, the company hopes that the upcoming periods, the impact of growth will be visible, not only in the revenue side but also on the profit side. Now we will open the floor for our Q&A sessions.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Rishikesh Oza from RoboCapital.

Sir, I have 3 questions. So one, as you said, the EBITDA margins dropped. So sir, as far as I understand, is it a onetime drop?

Yes, sir, it's a onetime loss, INR 2.56 crores, which we -- the sale of assets, we sold around 103 old vehicles from our fleet, which was more than 10 years and above.

Okay. So when can we -- so like we can see the range of 24% to 26% of margins from next quarter itself?

Yes, hoping that, sir, because these kind of losses were very abnormal. So that's why if you see my operating level, profit was on a same line.

Okay, sir. And my second question is, sir, what is the strategy for the Mumbai operations now?

So there is a decline in exports at Mumbai operations, but we are looking at some more revenues on the domestic side. So in last quarter also, if you were there on the call, but I just wanted to tell you again, we are exploring some domestic movement over there in the Maharashtra region. And somewhere we got the second success. That's the reason our movement, if you see on the revenue side is on the higher side compared to the last quarter.

Okay. And we have done like 55,000 TEUs in Vapi this quarter. So can we say that -- like, is it fair to assume that this will continue for the next 4 quarters, 55,000?

Yes, sir. We are trying to reach over there by -- the situation is now this quarter. I think so after COVID pandemic, that is for sure. So many parties were having a belief on us on the services side, and that we are gaining from Vapi and then the Mumbai region.

Okay. And my last question, sir, could you please share the outlook on debt?

So basically, last year also -- on the last quarter, I told and gave the guideline about the 200 new vehicle purchases. But right now, there is no such further asset would like to be involved. One, I just wanted to add over here, as you're asking me, like we, last year -- before last year, we take 2 trains for our operations. Now we are having a train option with higher size. So in that front, we can be at around 4 trains in next coming year, and then maybe the trains will be having process of 1 year. Further to that, there is no such asset we were looking for. And we don't want to take further loan on that.

Okay. So sir, how are you planning to reduce your debt? Like, what levels would you be paying this year?

So basically, this year, we have around INR 100-plus crores repayment. And next year, also the same repayment we have. After 2 years, I think so, we were having a repayment of INR 60 crores to INR 70 crores per annum. Next 4 to 5 years, we are maximum, debt level will be getting down.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of [ Natraj ], an individual investor.

Yes, can you just highlight something about your land sale, which you wanted to do? And it is not happening for the past 3, 4 years.

Sir, past 2 years, we were having a 2 plan on that land. One was in relation to the warehousing or storage we'd like to make over there, first. Second was sale of land, which we have a land in idle over there at our [indiscernible] CFS, which is 45 acres. But in this current situation, we won't get a price in line with which we required, first. And secondly, there is no such interest to buy the land from any of the market players who were in the real estate. So still that option is available to so many parties. We were approaching to JLL. We were approaching fast to Anarock for various things. But since last pandemic, where we're 1-year-plus, there is no such discussion on that line.

Okay. And is there any documentation problem with respect to land? It's what some rumors are there in the market. The documents are not clear, that's why Navkar is not able to sell the land.

No, no, no, sir. That is not at all a point because my entire land -- if there is any kind of discussions on land documents, that should be in my DRHP or the prospectus also. So there is no land-related issues for documents. There is a real price that should be there, which is not we are getting yet.

Are you expecting to sell anything this year or next year, land?

Practically not because there is no such movement in this year from the real estate side with the price. If we will give -- provide any kind of 40%, 50% discount, there may be such situations will be arise. But we are not having that kind of movement in this area we had seen -- seeing yet.

Okay. My next question is when are you shifting to reduction in taxation. This is shifting to next the plan for reduction on taxation?

So tax, we have -- for Vapi, we have this last year -- this is the last year for Vapi. From this year -- next year onwards, we will be taking a benefit of ATI.

The next question is from the line of Vikram Suryavanshi from PhillipCapital (India) Pvt. Ltd.

I'll first ask how was the performance of Valvada, Ahmedabad ICD.

Sir, Valvada ICD is not having such performance yet because we will take last year Valvada and we are not yet baking around 500-plus containers over there, so which we include in our Vapi ICD volumes. So Valvada ICD would like to transfer Hazira and Mundra port but we won't get that kind of a volumes over there, and meanwhile remain the volumes over there at Vapi, our ICD.

Okay. And Vapi volumes are mostly coming to JNPT? Or is there any improvement in like...

Vapi volumes are mostly coming from JNPT only.

So again, that would be how much? Or not much now?

It's in the range of 5%, actually, whereas before, it was hardly 5%.

Okay. And last quarter, I think we were operating around 12 trains. So is there any change in path or is still the same?

No, sir. In this quarter, particularly, if you'll ask me, we are more focusing on the JNPT port volumes and then the situations -- Vapi clients, whoever would like to be add, they were all added from the JNPT port itself because they won't got any kind of a services from JNPT port side from various transporters and all. So that was actual shift and they got -- understand, whoever is having a strong service base, they will be going with them only. And that is the only reason Vapi is doing -- are rising. If you'll see, quarter-on-quarter also, when we started in 2017, the whole year, we were having only 40,000 TEUs volume. We are reaching around 55,000 TEUs in the quarter itself. So this is mainly led by JNPT port itself.

Correct. Sir, okay. My question was more about we have owned 2 trains and 10 was leased. So I think that 12 number is still there, that we are operating 12 trains, 10...

Yes, which is you are -- totally, we are using around -- today, if you'll ask me, we -- last -- until March, we were having a 12 trains in operation, out of which 2 trains, which is owned by us, and 10 trains we were taking on a lease. So with those things, there were 2 major operations we will hand in the domestic side for smart Smartchem and ArcelorMittal. So major train operations we did in the past was domestic operations.

Okay. And you are adding -- planning to add 4 more trains. Will that be -- we are buying on our own or that will be on lease basis?

So we are in planning to take our old trains. That's why I told that. It is all based on the financial viability, first thing; and secondly, availability of trains with the vendors.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of [ Sudarshan ], an individual investor.

This is Sudarshan. I have 2 questions. One is about dwarf containers, which has been right now tested from JNPT to Mehsana. So in this current route, and this is around some 50% more efficiency there in terms of the capacity. So any plans to introduce or handle such containers?

Pardon, I don't got your question actually.

So there is something called as a dwarf containers. So recently, from Mehsana to JNPT, they've tested it, which means like we can support double-stacked containers on the existing track itself. So something has been tested like this in the JNPT to Mehsana route. So this is the case, any plans to introduce? Because that increases the capacity by approximately 50 percentage. So is it something like we are planning to handle it, any such containers, which could improve the operational metrics? So that's one.

We are already handling those containers, sir. We have a movement on our lines over there at ICD as well as Mumbai and both our CFS and ICD with the PFT. So these kind of containers, we are already been handle. And ICD movement, which we are doing from port and 100% by rail.

Okay. My second question was in terms of the top at Vapi capacity, is it something we are having only a linear growth? Or are we expecting to add more clients? Because if you see the data, the JNPT data from Jan to March is also very high. So is it something only from the existing clients? Or are you planning to add -- are we in the process of adding new clients as well for Vapi?

Yes, yes, we are adding every day new clients at Vapi. Because, as I told you, there are so many issues with the clients on a service basis. So we are -- our new added clients list is very high now. And those are a fraction of -- it's like we were earlier having good and big clients. Now we were having a variable clients of 5 containers, 10 containers, 50 containers, 100 containers. So both the clients, variably were coming to us. And that is the reason our operating cost also going high a little bit because the commodity mix was getting changed. Earlier, we were used to do the heavy commodity and paper and pharma. Now everything is in a mix and match. So this is -- there are definitely change of clients over there in Vapi.

Is it possible to give month-wise TEUs for Jan to March, sir?

Month-wise, we were not separating it, but I can give you separately if you'll call me up.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Rishikesh Oza from RoboCapital.

Two more questions from my side. So the first is the revenue we have done around INR 215 crores this year quarter. So can I say this is sustainable for the next year? And is it fair to assume that we can do around INR 900 crores of revenues in FY '22?

This is all depends on after this quarter, actually, because this quarter also, there is an announcement of COVID pandemic lockdown, correct? So we will be getting the quarter number of June, then after only we can say that it will be remain seen for quarter-on-quarter, for next couple of quarters or 3, 4 quarters because this is really very early to say. If you see last full year and compare it to last year's quarter, for the same, they were INR 155 crores top line versus INR 213 crores, correct? So there is definitely significant changes in the sales. It is all depends on the new normal policies that will be introduced by government. Then it will also depend on the situations of the market. So right now, if you will tell me the parties whoever is working with me today, they are so much happy with the services, correct? So after 1 or 2 quarters, they may be setting centralization. But at the same time, we will add some more clients. So we are hoping and assuming that, that will remain same for a couple of quarters, but it will be likely, I can say, after 1 or 2 quarters, that will remain continue or not. Right now -- because right now what happens? So many clients who are not getting the good services from these variable counterparts, that's why they are coming to me. If there is a centralization process we'll be getting from both sides, they might -- some clients will be -- change the policies going towards the past scenarios. But I can say there might be a percentage of 5% to 10%. But increment side is more than comparative to that.

Okay. Okay. And sir, my last question is, like, when do you expect to go back to like 30%, 33% kind of EBITDA margins?

Sir, on that, I can give the guideline like whole year, we were facing so many challenges on the operating side. The COVID pandemic, then there were labor issues. Then if you see the diesel prices in last quarter, January, there was a diesel price of INR 79, which was in hold but around INR 88, correct? So dynamics are getting changed. Dynamics -- there are so many things which is not under our control, correct? So with the looking current situation, I can say they might take another 2 to 3 quarters for getting that range again.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Prateek Kumar from Antique Stock Broking.

Yes, I have few questions. Firstly, can you just highlight on now, so how is the competitive intensity at JNPT? So now things related to -- like airport deliveries now like it has broadly settled. So how is the services for ourselves evolved like in the past 2 years? How is the services changed versus the [ CDPD ] era, which we used to offer? And how is the general competitive intensity at the port?

So basically, Prateek, I just want to give you the specific answers of your question. Like DPD is a situation which is really impacted badly to the CFS industry, correct? And every CFS was booking and setting different, different kind mode of operations like somewhere there were changes into the warehousing and there were certain changes. Like we also changed ourselves to -- compared to DPD situations, we are also moving to the domestic markets also. So I can say, on the port side, the momentum will be same. Services-wise, like down the line, if you see, next 1 or 2 years, once the DFCs will be coming into the picture, then again, the price will be again on the railway side, correct? Now that price war is on the road side, on the trucking side, correct? So that is all depending on the situations will be getting changed after the COVID pandemic, with the new normal policies and all what kind of a services people would like to preferably do and then the normal operations of the laborer and then truck drivers will be getting happened, then we'll got to know how this will impact to the other businesses. So today, if you'll ask me with the DPD, the impact is already there, correct? And every CFS has already been impacted. Yes, I can say certain shift, which we are hoping since last 2 or 3 quarters and which -- on that, due to the service -- lack of services, we got some kind of benefits as we have a full facility with us, we have a railway tracks, we have a railway facility, we have a warehousing facility. By Vapi, we are giving 100% multimodal solutions for the clients. And that has really helped to the client as well as us to moving towards the revenue models.

Okay. And sir, on CapEx, our CapEx has remained above INR 100 crores for -- like since our IPO, much higher than INR 100 crores in some of the years. So based on our -- like we are looking to add 4 trains in this year, which would like probably entail INR 550 crores to INR 560 crores. So total CapEx would still exceed INR 100 crores for this year?

Probably not. I might say, by today's condition, if you'll ask me, trains, why I would like to do, Prateek, because the issue is what you know, earlier, the train which was we got around INR 11 lakh to INR 12 lakh on a lease basis, which is now 20 lakhs, correct? So if you will -- in March 2020, we did take 2 trains, which has really helped me in this kind of a situation. And now after -- now onwards, if financial capability will remain -- continue with the company, then only we'll think about take the taper trains or it should be giving me the benefit of further business operations. Otherwise, we are not having any kind of a plan to take any kind of a train or asset side.

Okay. And just one question on your domestic operations. For some reason, that number, like product came down in this quarter in terms of revenue.

Slightly, I think so, INR 40 lakh, INR 50 lakh due to -- February was having 28 days.

But generally, business across the economy, macro, it's like sort of accelerated in Q4. So like your EXIM did accelerate that way, but...

This year -- Prateek, I do not mean to interrupt here. This year, it has all -- everything was abnormally changed. Means, in first quarter or last quarter, we were always having a good set of numbers. So on revenue side, we have definitely improvement. It was not because of COVID pandemic. It's a general market situations or whatever you can say.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of [ Vishal Doshi from Sunshine ].

[Foreign Language] Bombay [Foreign Language] business model [Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language] business model [Foreign Language] already [Foreign Language] expand [Foreign Language] Bombay [Foreign Language] expansion [Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language] business [Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language] business [Foreign Language] business [Foreign Language] business [Foreign Language] business expansion [Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language] business [Foreign Language] development [Foreign Language] definitely, we will let you the market because [Foreign Language] information we will have to give to the exchanges first. [Foreign Language] Board meetings [Foreign Language] process [Foreign Language] business [Foreign Language] In relation to business, [Foreign Language] domestic-related [Foreign Language] business [Foreign Language] we are definitely [Foreign Language] growth [Foreign Language] domestic operations [Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language] delivery percentage [Foreign Language] delivery percentage be 35%, 34% or 38 lakhs, 40 lakhs [Foreign Language] delivery [Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language] definitely but [Foreign Language] Like, we are exploring the business in Maharashtra. As I told you, domestic market [Foreign Language] definitely [Foreign Language] market [Foreign Language] or I really want to say [Foreign Language] share prices [Foreign Language] market [Foreign Language] business-wise, we have revenue growth [Foreign Language], expenses that definitely company [Foreign Language] second quarter [Foreign Language] trains [Foreign Language] physical commercial viability [Foreign Language] definitely [Foreign Language]

Okay. [Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language] baseline of business [Foreign Language] growth [Foreign Language] dispute [Foreign Language] tools [Foreign Language] profitability [Foreign Language] business [Foreign Language] business-related [Foreign Language]

Okay, sir. [Foreign Language] quarter-to-quarter [Foreign Language] development [Foreign Language] expense [Foreign Language] company developed [Foreign Language] business acceleration [Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language] company [Foreign Language] growth [Foreign Language] our accomplishment tied to the logistics company [Foreign Language] otherwise [Foreign Language] condition [Foreign Language] general market [Foreign Language] I can say [Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language] customer [Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language] definitely [Foreign Language] contact [Foreign Language] 75% to 80% [Foreign Language] diesel [Foreign Language] prices [Foreign Language] INR 62, INR 63 [Foreign Language] INR 90 [Foreign Language], correct? [Foreign Language] 75%, 80% party [Foreign Language], 20%, 25% party [Foreign Language], which is very nominal [Foreign Language] But impact [Foreign Language] definitely, but pass on [Foreign Language].

[Foreign Language] tech benefit [Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language] next year [Foreign Language].

Next year? [Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language] This year, we are not taking that benefit. From next year onwards, we'll be taking that benefit.

[Foreign Language]

[Foreign Language] 60% business Vapi [Foreign Language] 60% Vapi [Foreign Language].

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of [ Suraj ], an individual investor.

I just want to check, if we remove the one-offs, which have happened this month -- the quarter, what would be the EBITDA margins after removing those one-offs?

EBITDA margins?

Yes, after removing the one-offs like the bad debt and the sale of the trucks that you talked about?

This is almost in the range of 26%, 27%, which is as per the last quarter, it's on the higher side only. 1% or 2% on the higher side, if I'll adjust these kind of abnormal losses.

Okay. So what would be the exact number, Anish, if you could mention that? You said 27%, but that's same as last quarter. Are you saying it could be 29%?

Sir, last quarter, if you see my EBITDA margin in a range of -- I'll just -- wait, I'll just give you the numbers also. Sir, on EBITDA level, I was having INR 46.51 crores in last quarter. And this quarter was INR 40.83 crores. And if I'll add these abnormal items, almost in the range of INR 4.5 crores. So it's in a similar range of INR 45 crores. So that the decline was 8.5%, which is almost 2% if I'll be taking the exact margins after adjustment of these kind of items.

Got it, sir. I think INR 45 crores. But still that will be lower than last month because it's not...

Yes, Yes. Because they were sitting in also I told on that. If you see, I'm not putting the exactly diesel prices, but there were challenges from the manpower supply also so will have to be retained with some incentivization, which was -- we did in past quarter also. And then pandemic situation, we did the same during -- with the -- with our truck drivers and laborers. So that is a major component of our operating cost increments.

Got it. And -- but are you passing cost to your end customer or...

Sir, in many of the cases, we can pass on the cost because in past 1 and 1.5 years, we have seen that the change of diesel prices and this kind of incentivization is very high. So earlier what happened, sir, so many clients, which is regular with me, we were having a change of new rates every quarterly basis or the half yearly basis or the yearly basis. But now we were having agreements with these kind of customers, and we were having a special clause on that thing. If there is a change of diesel prices and due to that, we were having a further cost increment, that will be taken care by the client.

Got it. And what about the manpower increase also? That is...

This is all depends on the situation because if there is a specific case, if somebody is coming up with 500 containers of the exports. In that case, we can be asking for the extra labor cost. But if somebody is coming in with the 5, 10 containers, we can't be change every time the rates. It is not dependent on the movement, sir. If there is a bulk movement, definitely we'll have to be charged extra. But if there is a small movement, short movement, how can we change every time the rate of movement or every time the rate of port handling.

Sure. Okay. And -- but how often do you sort of reset these contracts now? Like you mentioned like earlier, it used to be quarterly, then I mean before half yearly. But right now, is it happening on a monthly basis? Or how frequently are you resetting these agreements?

So in a larger chunk, if there is operations -- if you'll ask me top 20, 25 clients, we are revisiting on each and every consignment, first thing. And we are revisiting on a monthly basis. But if there are certain small clients or having a 50 containers movement in a month, then we'll have to think and we'll have to be -- evaluate on a quarterly basis.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Another question is that what is the current debt level that you're having in the company?

So we have a current debt level in totality is INR 502 crores.

INR 502 crores. And what will be the cash?

Cash, now we have INR 40-plus crore with us.

Got it. So about INR 460 crore, INR 450 crore -- INR 460 crore.

Net debt.

Got it. All right. And what do you think is the overall outlook in terms of freight rates? Do you think that is likely to increase? And with that, do you think our margins will only come a bit better? And do you think also with the given situation, do you think this manpower issue will sort of continue? Or you're seeing sort of inflow of people that will come in the...

Well, I think so. That will remain continue for 1 or 2 quarters. This quarter will definitely be hitted very badly because the second wave of the COVID was very bad for each and every sector as well as the community, correct? In last -- first one waves, there were no high death rate. But in the second wave, there is a high death rate. Due to that, we were facing so many challenges. So it will remain same for another 1 or 2 quarters, second quarter. Then after, it should be normalized because government is also having their own capability.

Got it. Right. Also considering you are all big with pharma, are you seeing some traction over there, increase in rates also with the pharma company?

Sir, there is no such thing like a...

And are we part of the entire vaccine rollout value chain also?

It was very less, sir. It was very less. It was -- it depends on the availability on the vehicle as well as the situation. So we definitely did -- contributed in that. But there is no such price changes in -- freight changes in these kind of operations.

Okay. Okay. And what is broadly a breakup from industry perspective that we have? Any broad view?

Pardon me?

Any broad number that you can share from our revenue perspective, which are the biggest end contributors from industry perspective?

Are you talking about the client-specific or what?

Yes. Not client-specific but industry-specific. Yes, industry-specific revenue share.

Sir, in imports, we are not stressing any kind of specific commodities because we won't even know the container which we are arising at our ICD or our CFS, what commodity in that. But yes, I can say to you, there's so many things in the commodities like we are building pharma, heavy equipment, steel. Steel is largely trained for domestic. And then we do have exports of agro commodities.

[Operator Instructions] As there are no further questions, I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Maheshwari for closing comments.

Yes. So thank you so much, once again, to Antique Capital and Prateek. I would like to thank everyone for joining on the call. I hope we have been able to respond to your queries adequately. And I also would like to say stay healthy and take your safety first. Thank you so much.

Thank you. On behalf of Antique Stock Broking, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.