NBCC (India) Limited (534309) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to NBCC (India) Limited 3Q FY '24 Results Conference Call. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Umesh Raut from Nomura. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Thank you, Sagar. Good morning, everyone. On the behalf of Nomura and NBCC, welcome you all for 3Q FY '24 Results Conference Call of NBCC Limited. We are happy to host the management of NBCC Limited. From the management side, today, we have Sri K. P. Mahadevaswamy, Chairman-cum-Managing Director; Shrimati B.K. Sokhey, Director, Finance; Shri Saleem Ahmad, Director, Projects; Shri Rajendra Chaudhari, Senior Executive Director, Engineering; Shrimati Reshma Dudani, Executive Director, Engineering. Also, we have Investor Relations, Balkishan Singla. So now we have -- we hand over the call to management to give initial remarks on the results and current business outlook. Over to you, sir. Thank you.

Good morning, everyone. I am K.P. Mahadevaswamy, CMD, NBCC. On behalf of my team, I extend a warm welcome to you and appreciate your presence in today earning call for third quarter ended 31st December 2023. I have with me our other directors and senior management of NBCC. First of all, I express sincere gratitude to all shareholders, particularly you, the investors, who strongly believe in NBCC's strengths, which helped to cross all-time high share price recently. If I recall last February when I took responsibility of Director, Commercial, it was around INR 35, and now it is multiple times. I assure you as the CMD of this company, in coming years, our performance will elevate much fold. In terms of consolidated operation and execution on 9 months basis, we have achieved INR 6,566 crores of total income and INR 361 crores PBT, which is 63% higher on year-on-year basis, and significant 66% increase in PAT for 9 months. I want to share a few key achievement of NBCC. Regarding redevelopment project. At consolidated level, NBCC has secured business of INR 10,000 crore during last 9 months, whereas the same figure was INR 6,500 crores in the last year, previous year. Update regarding Amrapali project. Amrapali project has contributed INR 1,170 crores of turnover in NBCC top line. I'm happy to share that out of 38,000 housing units, 16,000 units are already completed and handing over in process. Additional another 14,000 units will be ready at the earliest by December 2024. NBCC along with ASPIRE team has achieved a sale of 6,000 units in Amrapali project with the total sale value of INR 3,500 crores. Updates regarding redevelopment projects. Nauroji Nagar World Trade Center is 93% completed. Netaji Nagar project first phase is going on with the project worth of INR 1,500 crores, which has been achieved -- financials of the project percentage is 48% completed. Sarojini Nagar, this is a large project and works in 8 phases is going on with the project value of INR 4,200 crores. NBCC real estate. NBCC is putting dedicated efforts in this direction to reach maximum potential buyers and increase the sales volume as well as profitability. We are already able to sell INR 117 crores of NBCC real estate in comparison with INR 37 crores of last year 9 months. Redevelopment real estate sale. Before March '24, we'll be able to sell the remaining units after its construction. Project tenders out for execution. In current financial year, around INR 6,800 crores worth of projects have been awarded, which we'll start and grow very soon and help to increase our turnover. Other major achievements. Inauguration of IIM Sambalpur by honorable Prime Minister, a new campus spread in 200 acres. Under the world's largest grain storage plant in cooperative sector, NBCC has signed a total 175 MoU with PACS and cooperative banks till date in different states across India. National Dental Commission was inaugurated by honorable Health Minister. Honorable President of India inaugurated NBCC build Kaushal Bhawan. Shri Amit Shah, honorable Union Minister, Home and as well as Cooperation, inaugurated offices in World Trade Center. Honorable President of India inaugurated NBCC built wooden replica of historic flag post. Honorable President applauded NBCC for timely completion of the tallest wooden flag post in India. Major opportunities and focus area in NBCC in upcoming months. Opportunity in housing sector. Government of India and Union Finance Minister gave boost to affordable housing by providing to the middle class income group. NBCC is assessing this opportunity and are in talks with various government agencies, including few state governments. Land monetization. After receipt of Kerala Housing Board monetization project, NBCC is exploring feasibility of few land parcel across pan India along with the PSU land parcels. PSUs have thousands of acres land with them in all major cities. After a successful journey of redevelopment business model, NBCC is eying some major works in the segment of upcoming months, encash Amrapali project experience and expertise, examining feasibility of few more stressed real estate projects. We are exploring other opportunities in NCR, Mumbai regions where homebuyers are facing such big problems. Overseas focus. We already set up concrete foot in overseas, particularly African countries, Maldives, Mauritius. Social housing work is in full swing in Maldives. We are hoping that we'll tap some business in Arabia and Africa in coming months. NBCC real estate works. We are also reaching out 2 tier cities for upcoming real estate projects. Diversification. We are also taking some steps to diversify NBCC business, which includes recently secured projects, metro railways. Thank you, one and all. Now the forum is open for discussion.

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of [ Shivam ], who is an individual investor.

Congrats for good numbers. Sir, what would be the update on your guidance of the top line of INR 11,000 crores in this fiscal and INR 25,000 crores that you mentioned in the next fiscal?

Definitely, we will achieve between INR 10,500 crores to INR 11,000 crores.

And sir, for the next fiscal year?

Next fiscal year, INR 13,000 crores.

Next fiscal year would be INR 13,000 crores.

Yes.

So if I'm not wrong, you mentioned somewhere around about for INR 25,000 crores. Am I right, wrong?

Five years, 5 years, 5 years. Next 5 years.

In next 5 years. Okay.

The next question is from the line of Pankaj Kumar from Kotak Securities.

Sir, I would like to know about the order inflows that we had in the 9 months. And overall, what is the target for FY '24 and '25?

So 9 months order already INR 10,000 crores we have secured. Another INR 10,000 crores we are expecting in current year only, within these 3 months, by March. And what is the other question you asked?

For next year, FY '25, what we are targeting to...

Business development?

New orders inflows I'm talking, yes.

Pardon me?

Yes, yes, business development, for the next year...

INR 20,000 crores. From next year onwards, we can easily secure more than INR 20,000 crores.

Sir, this number is on consol basis, I believe. So if you can help us with the stand-alone numbers.

It is consolidated only. But stand-alone, you can say, is INR 15,000 crores to INR 16,000 crores. Consolidated only INR 3,000 crores to INR 4,000 crores only we are getting from other subsidiaries. Ours is major.

Okay, okay. And sir, in terms of overall this order book, what is the order backlog at the end of 9 months...

Now we have INR 55,300 crores in consolidated basis.

Okay. So stand-alone would be around INR 45,000 crores?

INR 45,230 crores-something.

Okay. And sir, you were targeting to award some INR 9,600 crores in the current financial year, so the projects that you were targeting earlier. So what are the revised targets for the current year as well as what you are planning to award in the next financial year?

Next financial year, we are going to award around INR 20,000 crores -- sorry, INR 12,000 crores. Currently, INR 8,000 crores we are targeting.

Okay. And out of the total INR 55,000 crores order book, what portion we have already awarded?

Already INR 6,000 crores awarded during this year.

No, no, total of this INR 55,000 crores when you're saying this is the order backlog, so how much of the projects that is -- where the work has -- where we have already awarded the work?

Around INR 21,000 crores. In a consolidated level, INR 21,000 crores already awarded.

Okay. So large part is still to be awarded you are saying for the -- that is...

The 7 GPRA it is in process, that we are awarding.

Okay. And sir, in terms of 7 GPRA project, which I believe is around INR 24,000 crores of construction work. So there, what is the progress in terms of what percentage of work is already awarded and what is yet to be awarded. If you can help us with the project-wise in all 3?

Nauroji Nagar, INR 1,950 crores work already awarded, that is WTC, 93% completed. By March, we're going to complete all the physical as well as financial, we're going to complete. Similarly, the sale around INR 13,000 crores we have to sell, out of which INR 10,000 crores already were sell out, but remaining INR 3,000 crores we're going to sell before March. Regarding Netaji Nagar, we have already awarded 1 GPO to the agency, wherein almost 50% work we have completed. By next -- this December, before December, we're going to complete Netaji Nagar. Similarly, Sarojini Nagar, we have already awarded 5 packages out of which all are in running conditions. One project some 800 units we're going to hand it out shortly to our MoU.

So this Sarojini Nagar is a large part of -- I believe, around INR 15,000 crores is the construction?

Yes, yes, INR 13,000 crores of -- INR 13,400 crores.

And is this, what in value terms you think can help us or till where the construction is going on for value?

It is going in different phases in each packages. One package, we're going to partly hand it over by March, around 800 units we're going to hand it over by March. So rest is in progress. By August -- it is in different stages. Each package is in different package. Recently, we have awarded 3 packages. So all the 3 packages, they have started. The 2 packages we have awarded with Mivan technology, one with precast technology.

So I was looking for in value terms, what amount is already went to construction, what's...

INR 4,200 crores already awarded.

INR 4,200 crores in the Sarojini Nagar project?

Yes.

And in Netaji Nagar?

Netaji Nagar, INR 1,450 crores already awarded. Two tender we're going to publish by -- within 1 week. Around INR 2,000 crores work is ready, the tender is ready, we're going to publish at the earliest.

The next question is from the line of Vasudev from Nuvama.

Sir, my first question is on the Amrapali project. So here we were expecting some additional orders. So now what is the status over there? And currently, what is our pending order book from Amrapali?

Out of INR 8,000 crores, already, we have completed around INR 6,000 crores. The balance workload is only INR 2,000 crores. Regarding new business, that is FAR, additional FAR, we're going to get at the earliest. I think by this weekend, we're going to get INR 8,000 crores, INR 9,000 crores business.

Okay, okay. Then next, sir, on our real estate front, so you said that we've sold out INR 117 crores in this year. So what is our plan for Q4 and FY '25? And also, if you can help that what is our current land bank available, the cost?

Another INR 50 crores, I think we're going to sell during this year, real estate project. Total, we have INR 600 crores inventory, out of which INR 117 crores already we have sell it out. So another INR 50 crores by March, we're going to sell.

Okay, okay. Sir, on the redevelopment front also, you said that we'll sell all of it by the end of this year. So what is the value if you could provide?

That is -- can you -- real estate or redevelopment you're saying?

Redevelopment.

Redevelopment, only Amrapali we have to sell. Rest all -- 7 GPRA, there is no sale in redevelopment. It is government colony.

Okay, okay. So, sir, taking it from the previous participant's question, so you gave guidance for revenues and order intake for -- then what is the PAT and EBITDA margins that we're looking at?

Top line, during this year?

This year and the next year, our EBITDA and PAT margins?

Your PAT margin will be around -- EBITDA, 5.5% to 6% next year. Current year, 5% to 5.5%.

Okay. And PAT margins then?

PAT margins around 5%. It will be more than 5%.

Okay, okay. Sure, sir. And sir, then last question. So out of the INR 55,300 crores of order book that we have, can you give us a split between PMC and redevelopment? And what is the consolidated cash balance?

Around 92% in PMC only. So only 3%, 4% that is on real estate and 3%, 4% for EPC contracts.

As regards the cash balance, we have the cash balance of INR 4,800 crores on consolidated basis. And NBCC's cash balance out of that is INR 2,100 crores. And our own funds are around INR 1,000 crores as the NBCC has received the -- received back the seed money, which we have invested in the redevelopment project of 7 GPRA and which will be further deputed in the furtherance of the business of ours.

Okay. So ma'am then what is the seed money that it is still outstanding and interest on that?

Yes. Seed money now outstanding as on today is INR 81 crores. And the outstanding interest is around INR 210 crores, which we are expecting to get back in the next financial year in the first week of next financial year. Against the interest portion, right?

Yes. Okay.

The next question is from the line of [ Atul ], who is an individual investor.

So my question is, there is 2 questions. So first is, as you told earlier, that this year, you will achieve around INR 10,500 crores revenue. So may I ask you, are you -- I mean, this is a conservative number or this is final number for this year?

This is final number. I can say final number.

Okay. And what -- so it means that consolidated basis, you will achieve around INR 4,000 crores in this quarter? I mean this quarter number? This quarter, next quarter, what revenue will achieve consolidated basis?

INR 3,500 crores to INR 4,000 crores.

INR 4,000 crores. And what PAT we can expect? Margin?

Margin, PAT margin, only quarter you were saying? Or...

Quarter, quarter, quarter.

On annual basis, we are expecting 5%, yes.

5%.

5%, okay. And as you told earlier, I mean, I'm asking you, after 5 years, your target this company about INR 25,000 crores revenue guidance. So may I ask out of this INR 25,000 crores, how -- I mean you said for the real estate business out of this INR 25,000 crores maybe in percentage number, not in accurate, just real estate business?

Real estate business?

Yes.

5% -- 5% to 10%, you can say, 5% to 10%.

Because you said PAT around INR 2,000 crores, I heard about somewhere. So it means that 8% you will achieve as the PAT margin after 5 years.

That is true because our breakeven is only INR 5,000 crores. Beyond INR 5,000 crores, whatever turnover we will achieve, our profit will be added. So that is the reason.

So this is also a conservative basis, you will achieve INR 2,000 crores next 5 years?

Definitely, definitely. We have our own -- so there we'll...

Okay. And 1 more question. Next year, I mean, there are a lot of inventory and a lot of unfinished projects in -- I mean, nearby Delhi, like Noida and Gurgaon. So are you pushing your company to get like Amrapali kind of like other projects, not -- I'm not talking about Amrapali next phase, for other developer projects? Are you planning...

Already, we are talking with RERA -- Haryana RERA already called us, they wanted to start the stalled projects in Haryana, Gurgaon -- that is in Gurgaon. So already...

Not in Noida?

Noida also there. Noida Unitech project, Supertech, we are discussing, but I think we're going to get at the earliest Haryana. Haryana RERA, already we are talking with them. And I think we'll get...

Okay. So this revenue you didn't calculate in your next year target? I mean maybe this is extra revenue we'll get.

Presently, we have not considered this one.

Okay. So in case if you will get these projects, it will add, let's say, 10%, 20% more revenue in that, your projection?

Definitely, definitely.

Definitely. Okay. So like this projection is just based on your normal projects, redevelopment and other projects, not with this extra, what maybe you will get through government?

That we have not considered. So far we are not considering.

Okay. But then it will -- I mean, there is chances to more revenue and profit in your top line and bottom line, both?

Definitely, definitely. [Technical Difficulty].

The next follow-up question is from the line of Shivam, who is an individual Investor.

Sir, I have 2 questions. First would be that you have a lot of land bank with you. So as the real estate cycle is moving ahead and it's going at a positive rate, so when do you expect to launch or develop these land banks? And the second would be that the PSU land bank opportunity which you told. So how many worth of -- can you give a projection that how many worth of opportunity can be the PSU redevelopment that you're talking across India?

PSU is having land parcel of more than, I think, in lakh acres. So we are presently discussing with 2, 3 PSUs. So it will be more than INR 10,000 crores value. So that, I think we're going to sign an MoU either this year or first quarter of next year. Similarly, we have land parcel of around INR 700 crores, 3 land parcel in Jaipur, 1 land parcel in Coimbatore and Patna. So we're going to launch this project by this year-end, [Foreign Language] March, or first week of April. 1 or 2 project, we are going to start immediately.

So sir, you were saying that around INR 13,000 crores, you will do in next fiscal year in consolidated basis. And if you get any PSU redevelopment opportunity, that would be the cherry on cake, right?

Yes, yes.

So how much can we expect on the optimism side that how much can be the revenue if everything goes right for the next fiscal year?

At least 20%, I can say, in percentage, at least 20% because the first year -- so initially some due diligence, appointment of consultant, all these clearances and all it will take. But next year onwards, it will be, I think, more than 20%, 25%.

And sir, 1 more clarification on your INR 25,000 crores guidance. So at what fiscal year you will be able to achieve INR 25,000 crores top line consolidated basis? Like you can mention the fiscal year '26, '25 or anything?

Next 5 years, next 5 years.

Next 5 years, like from which fiscal you'll start generating INR 25,000 crores or it would be the sum -- it won't be the sum of 5 years, right?

'27, '28.

'27, '28.

FY '27, '28?

Yes.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of [ Dr. Akshay Patel ] from NBCC.

Actually, my question is exceptional losses of around INR 15 crores to INR 20 crores we are seeing almost in every quarter. So is it going to continue or reduce in future? Or what are the steps you are taking?

Pardon me, what is your question?

You are talking about the exceptional items?

Yes, yes.

No, because the -- now this has been provided fully by the Board. And we have given the option for the reconstruction of the flats to all the buyers and the offer has also been given to the National Consumer Redressal forum. And -- but their court case is still pending, but we are hopeful that the buyers will consider our offer and we need to going further -- any further cost -- loss.

Rather their request, partly, they are requesting to reconstruct. So for that purpose only, we had created exceptional item. I think in the future, it won't come.

Okay, okay. And 1 more thing. As far as your balance sheet, continues losses have been posted in real estate segment. Real estate segment has not been in profit in past 2, 3 quarters. So what -- can you give us a picture on that, what is the reason for that?

The reason is mainly the provision towards this loss of 37D.

This is also real estate project.

Okay, okay. And my next question is to K. P. Swamy sir. Sir as per your latest interview, you have aspired to be a Maharatna company.

Yes.

Yes. And Maharatna company means at least yearly from the last -- previous 3 years, you should post a profit of INR 5,000 crores annually. So what is the road map and timeline to achieve the same, to become the Maharatna company?

[Foreign Language]. We have -- next 5 years, we are going to pave a Maharatna status, not -- we're going to get Maharatna status. For another 5 years, I think we're going to get, road map for Maharatna we are making.

Okay, okay, okay. And so from when your real estate project -- like Jaipur, which -- the land parcels you won, what is the business opportunity in that? You have worth of INR 7 crores land parcel. So out of that, so what will be the sale value after the redevelopment work, after the constructing of those projects?

Presently, we are planning to construct one in Coimbatore, other one is in Jaipur. In Jaipur, we have 3 land parcel valuing around INR 300 crores. But definitely, we're going to fetch around INR 400 crores to INR 500 crores in Jaipur and similarly, INR 100 crores from Coimbatore.

And the profit in these segments will be 25%, right?

25% to 30%, we can expect 25% to 30%.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Pankaj Kumar from Kotak Securities.

Sir, this vision, this next 5 years vision of achieving INR 25,000 crores. So in that, what contribution you expect is from the redevelopment versus PMC? Will it be largely from the redevelopment? Or it's the normal PMC building projects that we are getting?

50% from redevelopment. Out of 90%, I can say, 40%, 45% from redevelopment and another 45% regular PMC.

And in this redevelopment, which are the major opportunities that you see? One you said is the PSU land development, I believe. So what are the other avenues that you have? Is it...

Other redevelopment projects is under our ministry only, we're going to start 1 redevelopment project that is DIZ Area, Connaught Place. The other one is in Ring Road, Andrews Ganj. These 2 real estate -- redevelopment project we're going to get at the earliest. So we have another also, some other state government. We are trying for another state government. That right now, I cannot say, but we have lot of opportunities and a lot of scope in redevelopment.

Of course, there's a huge opportunity in the redevelopment side. But we have seen the approvals and other government involvement is also there in all these. So do you see these targets would be achievable? Or I mean looking at the -- we have seen the 7 GPRA project, there were delays in approvals and all. So -- plus we also have to monetize the land and to generate resources. So what are the challenges that you believe? Whether these old challenges continue? Or...

As you rightly said, the 7 GPRA we faced a lot of challenges like tree cutting, tree removal, encroachment and generation of funds. Now all -- the generation fund part, already over. So we have already sold around INR 13,000 crores -- INR 10,000 crores inventory, another INR 3,000 crores we are going to sell during this year. So there is no money issue. Secondly, encroachment issue also already resolved. So in 7 GPRA, we don't have any hurdle. That's why we have kept only 20% increase in the next year because next year, we are able to generate only 10% to 20% only. Our order book will be more, but approval and all it will take some time. Next year onwards, [Foreign Language] after 1 or 2 years, our revenue can increase like anything. So initially, we are taking very comfortable figure, 10% to 20% only.

So this PSU land development opportunities, what value you expect out of it in your order next 5 years?

I told you know, around only 10% to 20% next year we are projecting. But next 5 years, it will be more than INR 20,000 crores, INR 25,000 crores. It is easily because we are already talking with BHEL, some other PSUs, BSNL, MTNL. So right now, I don't want to disclose the names and all. So we have a good opportunity, and they have very good land parcel, and we are going to redevelop that.

And these are at -- in which geographies?

Across India, across India. Delhi also they have land parcel, and Bhopal, they have land parcel, Visakhapatnam. So BHEL having 100 acre land parcel -- 100, 150 acre land in Visakhapatnam. In Bhopal, they have excess land, that is presently they are not using and encroachments and all issues are going on. So they wanted to monetize this land.

And you also talked about opportunities from other sectors in the previous calls, like metros and all. So any development and any comment on those?

We already secured a metro work for our -- we already secured Kochi Metro, we're going to get that Kochi Water Metro projects. Similarly, we are trying for other metro projects. So a lot of opportunities in the metro sector also. And steel sector, we got recently some INR 300 crores, INR 400 crores work order.

Okay. And lastly, on the international side, what is the total order book? And what are the pipeline?

Presently, we are doing around INR 1,500 crores to INR 2,000 crores worth of projects. And we are already established now in Saudi Arabia, Jeddah. We are focusing Gulf region from that country, the neighboring countries. We already have an office in Dubai, our subsidiary, fully owned subsidiary is having an office. So we are focusing now on Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Sharjah. So they've got lot of big housing potential there. So -- and then we are also now targeting African countries, Guinea Conakry, we are trying to get a hospital project there and some other talks are going on in other African countries. So we are expecting some good revenue -- good new business orders in coming years.

The next question is from the line of [ Tanay Russell ] from Nomura.

Sir, my first question was related to the land monetization. So do you think the government can involve private sector in case of PSU land monetization or the redevelopment aggressively in the near future?

Pardon me?

Sir, do you think that government can involve the private sector in case of PSU land monetization or redevelopment programs in the near future?

Already, they are involved in Bombay, but they're not successful. One thing I can say you that it is not successful. Now the government is going to withdraw that order. That's what I heard from state government. So we're going to get some business in Bombay. So private people, they cannot go [Foreign Language] in government projects. Of course, they can do their own, not government projects.

Okay. So sir, what all challenges they face actually compared to what are the positives for the NBCC -- company like NBCC? And what are the challenges faced by the private players in such case?

Advantage is government because just I'll say one word, when PSUs fails, private people will come to take. Example, Air India. Air India failed, Tata took over. Whereas Amrapali, private people fail and NBCC is successfully doing that project. So the advantage is -- and we put sale around 6,000 units. In the history of NCR, first time we sell around 6,000 units. No private agencies so far sell this amount of volume of housing project. So the reason is we are a government entity, PSU, the confidence on homebuyers is more -- much more because all the private builders already they have cheated some extent. In Delhi-NCR only, around 3.5 lakhs homebuyers still they are struggling to get their homes. So that is the advantage for NBCC.

Okay, okay, okay. And as you mentioned, like revenue target of around INR 25,000 crores by FY '28. So what do you think the potential risk to this particular estimate in the medium term as well as the long term?

I think there is no risk because since we are doing on PMC basis, even redevelopment also, we are doing on PMC basis. So there is no much more risk. Of course, that many challenges we have to face, that's all. There is -- I think there is no risk in this.

Okay, okay, okay. Sir, and coming to the margins part, the margins have remained volatile historically for the company. So how do you plan to maintain -- like expand it on a consistent basis in the long term or in the medium term, what are your plans on that aspect?

In long term, I think we were going to achieve more margin because our expenditure is fixed. However, it is only salaries, nothing else. Basically, our own salaries and other things, so that is breakeven -- when revenue reach around INR 5,500 crores, the salary will be breakeven. Beyond that, whatever we will do, our margin is definitely going to increase. So that's why we are projecting 6% EBITDA next year. And similarly, I think by end of '27, '28, it may reach up to 8% to 9%.

Okay, okay, okay. Sir, and what will be the fixed cost annually approximately? Can you quantify that?

INR 300 crores. Around INR 300 crores.

The next question is from the line of Shivam, who is an individual investor.

Sir, will you also be targeting the land banks of the Indian Armed Forces like Navy, Air Force, Army as they also have a huge land bank?

Yes. Presently, we are discussing with them. I mean, it is initial stage only. So I am already discussing with defense, the Army, and of course, that is land monetization. Of course, for India-Pakistan border fencing, that is done by NBCC. It is completed. So India-Bangla border fencing, and Northeast, we are doing for BSF and ITBP, CRPF and all, we are already doing their road as well as fencing work.

So sir, what's the revenue potential that already you were doing? And what do you expect in future with the Indian Armed Forces?

Presently, we have -- India-Pakistan, already we have completed. India-Bangla border fencing, it is going on, INR 200 crores to INR 250 crores, I think per year presently we are doing. It will be increasing next year onwards. Some PSUs are not performing in the border. That's why we are getting the job from them. Already we have secured them.

Okay, because of your execution.

Yes, yes. Since we are...

Sir, like my previous participant asked about the land bank, so how much sales can you do from that INR 700 crores of land bank? Like if you just build and sell the units from that?

So with our land bank, we're going to generate around INR 1,400 crores to INR 1,500 crores after completion we can generate. Presently, we have around INR 700 crores land bank. It is ours only. Excluding Ghitorni. That Ghitorni land parcel, it is huge but that also we are planning to redevelopment. So excluding redevelopment of Ghitorni, we have INR 710 crore land parcel.

And sir, any guidance on the contingent liabilities for this fiscal year? What would be the contingent liabilities this year?

Contingent liabilities are to the tune of INR 1,400 crores. And they are mainly consists of 3, 4 main contractors. So one is the Ramacivil against whom the company has also filed a recovery suit of INR 750 crores. And there are 3, 4 or more contractors also. That's why it has increased. This is the reason, yes.

So do you expect this to go down from fiscal year '25 or it will be the same because of the delays?

So far the contingent liability is what I have seen with my experience of over 35 years, they have not yet materialized in the tune for [Foreign Language] which it appears in the books, and very meager amount is [Foreign Language] actually [Foreign Language] is finalized against. Rather NBCC always get favorable judgment in its favor. And very rarely, we'll get any...

We have a counterclaim also.

So ma'am, this amount will increase in the next coming fiscal year or it will remain at this only?

No, no, we are not expecting and rather the company is focusing on for discussing with the legal disputes with the contractors, and we are trying to resolve. And some of the [Foreign Language] resolutions have also been made internally through discussions with the contractors. Though they are of the small amounts, but this approach has also been adopted by the company. So we are not expecting it to increase further in the future.

The next question is from the line of Vasudev from Nuvama.

Sir, in the previous calls, you had mentioned that our order book split between PMC and redevelopment was nearly about 50-50 or 60-40. And earlier you mentioned that this time PMC is 92% and real estate and all is 3%, 4%. So I didn't get over that.

Total out of INR 55,000 crores if I say -- I can say like this, I can put like this, total INR 55,000 crores, 90% value is PMC. That PMC includes redevelopment. If I divide PMC in 2 category, PMC and redevelopment, then it is 50-50 or 40-60, like that. So we are doing 90% work PMC. We are operating 3 segments. Basically, we're operating 3 segments: PMC, EPC and real estate. Whereas in PMC, we are doing redevelopment of projects. It is not a PMC redevelopment. I clarified your question.

In this quarter, then what will be the split between PMC and redevelopment?

Pardon me. It's around 50%. Currently, I cannot say exactly what the figure, around 50% in redevelopment and 50% from PMC.

Okay, okay, okay. Got it. And sir, what is the realistic sales that you are expecting for next year, FY '25?

INR 13,000 crores, I told you, INR 13,000 crores revenue and...

Real estate.

Real estate? You are asking me about real estate or total?

No, no, only real estate sales?

Only real estate, around INR 200 crores or INR 250 crores, INR 200 crores to INR 250 crores.

Ladies and gentlemen, we would take that as a last question for today. I would now like to hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.

Okay. Thank you, once again, all of you. I think we have cleared your questions, answered very -- I think we have answered your questions. Thank you. We are expecting very good growth. And I think in this year, we're going to get [Foreign Language] within 1 month, we are going to get a good number of orders. And hopefully, next year onwards, it will be a very good year for NBCC as well as to you. Thank you.

On behalf of Nomura and NBCC (India) Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.