NCC Limited (500294) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Yes, a very good evening to everyone. I welcome you all to the NCC Limited's Q4 FY '20 and FY '20 Results Conference Call. We have, from the company, Shri R.S. Raju, Associate Director, Finance and Accounts; Shri. Y.D. Murthy, Executive Vice President, Finance; and Shri. K. Durga Prasad, Joint General Manager, Finance. Without wasting any further time, I will request the management to start with the opening remarks. Thank you, sir. Over to you.

Thank you, Ashish. Good evening, all the participants. We are extremely sorry for the delay in hosting -- starting this conference call because of some issues beyond our control. Now that all of the results have been posted on as well to [indiscernible] the stock exchanges, now we are in a position to start the call. My colleagues are here, Mr. Durga Prasad, JGM; and Mr. R.S. Raju, CFO; and myself Y.D. Murthy, Execute Vice President. One small request here, because of curfew in the city of Hyderabad, we would like to restrict the conference call to about half an hour. So our related -- because after 07:00, going on the roads is a problem here, police can stop us and things like that. So my request is be brief in your questioning, and we will close it by 06:50. Now I request my colleague, Mr. R.S. Raju, to give his opening remarks.

Good evening to all of you. I'm R.S. Raju, CFO. So before coming to the results, it's COVID-19. So everywhere the COVID-19 impacts constraints are there. So probably in the construction companies, most of the companies, by this time, every time, giving the results. But at this time, we are not seeing any construction companies to given much [indiscernible] limited company are given. So we have managed the COVID-19 situation with the work from office. Using all type of [indiscernible] internet, photographs or videos mails. So -- and also by having joint discussion with the joint auditors and through [ Zoom ] calls or Microsoft. We have used all these things product. We transmitted information. And ultimately, auditors also satisfied, and we have finalized the accounts in today's Board meeting, all of you know that, concluded. So we have somehow, though it is infinite scenario, the company has its ability to manage this type of situation. Accordingly, we manage, and the quality, the writeup of information flowing across the -- all the [indiscernible] authorities. And ultimately, the accounts are adopted by the Board of Directors. So here before, in that one, I will explain about the adaptation. So during the fourth quarter, the company has received new orders from various clients. About INR 3,801 crores. And similarly, in the year, the company has secured orders of INR 7,172 crores. So with this, the order book stands as of the 31st March, '20, at INR 26,572 crores. The division wise breakup for these orders as we tell about the order book balance division wise at the end of the year. If anybody wants any other details, based on that, I will explain. So Building Division has INR 13,241 crores as of 31st March, '20. That means 50% growth of order book with the division and the INR 2,644 crores, 10% of the order books of the roads. Water and Railways, INR 4,660 crores, 18% of the order book. Electrical division, INR 1,711 crores, 6% of the order book. Irrigation, INR 2,054 crores, 8% of the order book. And mining INR 1,913 crores, 7% of the order book. And the rest of the things are there about INR 300 crores, others, international. International law stands at INR 95 crores, 0% according to calculations. So almost the orders, it was [indiscernible]. So INR 94 crores is there in a couple of months. It could able to complete those things also. Thereafter, there won't be any international operations. Coming to the performance of the company, which I will explain more to stand-alone operating results. So on stand-alone basis, the company received a turnover of INR 2,182 crores as against to INR 3,300 crores in the corresponding quarter of previous year. So -- which works out to about 32% to some 36% or so decline in the turnover of the fourth quarter. Now the company issues an EBITDA of INR 280.53 crores and a net profit of INR 110.37 crores as against INR 397.67 crores and INR 174.36 crores, respectively, in the corresponding quarter of the previous year. And the reported an EPS of INR 1.82 as against INR 2.90. For the year as a whole, the company issued turnover of INR 8,219 crores as against INR 12,080 crores in the previous year. The company posted an EBITDA of INR 1,010 crores (sic) [ INR 1030.15 crores ] and a net profit of INR 382.04 crores as against INR 1,423 crores and INR 563.91 crores, respectively, in the previous year. So the company has reported an EPS of INR 6.34 for financial year 2020. So that is our stand-alone. Now come to the consolidated results. So on consolidation basis, the company achieved a turnover of INR 2,334 crores for the quarter ended as against INR 3,761 crores in the corresponding quarter. So the operations of the company resulted into an EBITDA of INR 287 crore and the PAT attributable to the shareholders of INR 75.82 crores as against INR 475 crores and the INR 187 crores, respectively, in the corresponding quarter of the previous year. So reported an EPS of INR 1.25 against INR 3.12 in the corresponding quarter of previous year. That is for the fourth quarter consolidation basis. Now I will read out about the 12 months operations on unconsolidation basis. So company achieved a turnover of INR 8,901 crores INR for the year ended the 31st March '20 against INR 12,896 crores and an EBITDA of 1,087 crores and PAT of INR 336 crores for the year as against INR 1,599 crores and INR 578.69 crores, respectively, in the previous year. The company has reported an EPS of INR 5.59 for financial year 2020. About the margins [indiscernible] the read out. Before going to this -- the margins plan, the other income for the year as a whole reported INR 151 crores, which represents interest income of INR 48 crores. And interest on IT refunds INR 13 crores, interest on marginal deposits INR 18 crores, and the sale of land, INR 41 crores and other miscellaneous receipts that come in other mix -- put together around INR 30 crores, totaling to INR 151 crores. As far as margins are concerned, for stand alone, for this quarter, the gross profit margin reported is 20.16% as against 17.84% of the corresponding quarter. For the 12 months period, the gross profit margin is 20.98% as against 17.79% of the previous year. So here, there is an increase in the gross power margins happen, and the reasons for increase in the gross profit margins are, in the current year, some of the extra items various [indiscernible] in some of the major projects, which were larger earlier, they were mitigated. And which, again, help us to increase the gross profit margins. And similarly, some arbitrational work relating to road project, about INR 20 crores also made to ledger in the year '19-'20. And other reasons seeing here is the mix of the divisions. So here, in the current year, the road compared to the previous year reported more turnover, where relatively we have high margins -- high gross profit margins. And also in water division, the works -- they executing at present, particularly in the '19-'20. They have some good margins compared with what was executed in the last 2 years. And also, the mining division is also -- has orders now and executed some significant amount in the year '19-'20, where the margins, the gross margins, are also high. So these are the various items which are responsible for the increase in the gross profit margin about 2% plus. About EBITDA margin, here also an average for the quarter as well as for the year, some roughly 1% -- 0.75% to 1% increase has happened quarter-on-quarter. So the reason for increase in EBITDA also what I explained for the gross profit margin, the same reasons again for the EBITDA margin, for increase in EBITDA margin. About net profit. So in the -- for the quarter, as a whole, it reported around 5%. It is almost all equivalent to the percentage what we reported in the corresponding quarter in the previous year. And for the 12-month period, the net profit reported is 4.56% versus 4.62% reported in the previous year. Here also the net profit margin, more or less, in the same level as that of the previous year. As far as the interest cost is concerned, there is an increase in the interest cost in the current year as compared to the previous year. So the reasons for increased interest cost are the utilization of debt in the year '19-'20 relate to the higher than the debt what we used in the year '18-'19. But the debt has increased in quarter 1, quarter 2 and quarter 3. But in the quarter 4, the debt has come down steeply. About INR 450 crores debt has come down

But until the month of March.

March, that too in the standalone month of the year, that is March. So -- but going forward, we can see the reduction in interest cost provided, again, the situations in our -- if any, if normal situation arise, again, there is a different. Similarly, the mobilization advance, the interest in mobilization advance is -- some INR 9 crores is increased in the year '19-'20 as compared to the previous year. And now the mobilization advance also has come down in the year -- coming years. And we may see both of the -- a reduction in the interest of mobilization advance, impact of the mobil advance and the P&L account will come down. But as far as interest rate is concerned, there is no increase in interest rate. There is a slight decline, about 10 basis points from 9.84 to some 9.92, some 9.8 in the interest. As far as debt is concerned, the debt at the beginning of the year is about to INR 2,190 crores...

[indiscernible] quarter.

INR 1,990 crores or so in the beginning of the beginning of the year. At the end of the year, debt is standing at INR 1,910 crores. About INR 83 crores debt has come down in the year as a whole. But in this quarter, if you compare to the December, there is a significant decline, about INR 2,362 crores to INR 1,910 crores. About INR 450 crores decline is happened. So if you come to the debt of -- is 1 company as a whole, the consolidated debt, it has also come down from INR 2,630 crores INR as of 31st December, 2019 to INR 2,177 crores. We now come to the balance sheet. The share capital that is a part of the shareholders is increased from INR 4,700 crores or so to some INR 5,100 crore. For the year as a whole, as represented by increase in the profits ending the year and some INR 87 crores additional share capital brought by the promoters in the fourth quarter. And minus the dividend what we paid in the month of August or September, go to INR 108 crore. So these are the 3 elements in the change for the net worth. Now come to the trade receivables. The trade receivables have come down from INR 3,155 crores to INR 2,618 crores. There is a significant decline in the trade receivables. It is partly because of the reduction in the turnover also. Will the retention money had also -- there is no significant increase in the retention money, only INR 100 crores or so increased in this year in the retention money head point of view. Mobilization advance has also come down from INR 1,500 crores to around INR 97 crores. So these are the balance sheet changes. As far as debt equity ratio is concerned, there is an improvement in debt equity ratio. Now we are standing at 0.37, probably the lowest in the recent past. The working capital base increase in this year because of the low turnover, though the working capital has not increased dramatically, working capital is more or less stable, but the turnover has come down, as a result, the working capital base have increased. So the cash flow for the year as a whole [indiscernible] -- just a minute. So the cash flow on stand-alone basis -- in the fourth quarter, the cash flow generated from operating activities was INR 620 crores. And cash flow used in investing activities was INR 71 crores. The cash flow used for financing activities was INR 482.75 crores. So resulting increase in the cash balance of over INR 66 crores. For the 12 months period, also, there is a cash flow generated from operating activities, INR 636 crores. And cash flow used for investing activities is INR 164 crores. Cash flow used for financing activities, INR 582.95 crores. So here, what our cash generated through the operations, primarily used for the repayment of the loans and also for the payment of interest, which reflected in the financing activities. So in the investing activities, primarily, we use it for CapEx, about INR 140 crores and margin money deposits into the banks. They are in the form of -- so INR 100 crores, we have used there. So -- but this investing, the development has been in investing activities. So the consolidated cash flows, more or less, are also in the similar level, there is no much difference.

[Operator Instructions]

[Operator Instructions] The first question is from the line of Mohit Kumar from IDFC Securities.

My question is pertaining to the fact that -- of course, I understand that Q1 is expected to be difficult, but is there any -- some kind of comment you can give on how the construction activity is happening on the ground? And that's it, sir.

So COVID-19, as disruption is there. So it is a very unprecedented event. And the scenario -- and the present scenario here. So when the lockdown is declared because of restrictions and other things, the project, the progress is affected in the month of April, first fortnight of the April. And in the subsequent lockdown, the government to have given certain reliefs and also government to focusing on the -- increasing the construction companies to carry out the work. So as a result, the permissions and also certain other facilities that are required. So that too from the government side, the companies are getting now, and as a result, the projects more or less 90% to 95% have been restarted. And the work is going on, with some issues, disturbances, but not as [indiscernible], but the supply chain and the workmen -- there are workmen -- more workmen are required, particularly where they have migrated from other places. In such places, some impact is there. But during the -- or prior to the COVID, whatever workmen stayed with us, those workmen are also stayed during the lockdown period. And basing on the relief measures given, gradually, we started the work. And that workmen, again, working, except some few people again migrated to their native place. But we have the manpower because the manpower residing at our project locations, we have taken care by providing whatever they need during this COVID-19 period. So which -- we have taken care their livelihood and other things. And we started providing all sanitization, all preventive measures of the COVID-19. So as a result, the information on the projects is that is moving forward. So as a result, now the projects on average 50-plus percentage in operations are there. Few projects are there in 100%, and some projects are there nearly 70% to 80%, some projects around 50% to 70%. Some projects at 20%. Even 3, 4 projects might've started like that. On average, we expect that, at this moment, 50% to 70%, in between. The movement, the progress is there.

The next question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital Market. The next question is from the line of Dhananjay Mishra from Sunidhi Securities.

Sir, based on current year ending order book and present progress level, which will gradually go up. And also, we have exposure in Andhra. So taking all into consideration, what kind of revenue, rough revenue target we have in mind for FY '21?

See this was discussed in the Board meeting today and because of the uncertainties and the spread of the COVID and also a slowdown in the economy, all these factors, we are not able to give any guidance for FY '21. We will examine the situation as it arises month-by-month and try to do our best as far as the turnover is concerned for FY '21. So the Board has felt that no guidance can be given for the current year.

Okay. Sir, just to -- which are the key orders, which are under progress, which will contribute? Anyone can explain it?

Yes. That I will explain. The biggest road project is there from Nagpur to Mumbai, about to INR 2,850 crores. That is in progress, good progress. Similarly, the progress what we received are around INR 1,000 crores range, but in the REMs, in some projects in Madhya Pradesh, something in some other place...

Our team.

Our team. And also the product to what we received from sea buyer that is also a recent cost started the permission breakeven that also moving. Similarly, in the mining projects INR 350 crores is there. The resulting 100% capacity we are operating in April and May. So like there some major projects are there. So in Odisha, the Water division also started in the month in the late April and gradually now picking up in May. And like that, in NBCC -- so like that the airport -- airport Lucknow is also moving. So like the projects are moving, bearing some few on 4 to 5 projects. So -- but the constraints like to the supply chain and also the workmen. But we are making all efforts to pick up the progress, but there's also progress also we could -- the EBITDA increases in [ reverencing ] now. So how this -- how this COVID-19 and again for the last 1 week, the numbers, if we see that one, there is a different stories coming, how the one takes -- the restrictive measures. Further, either there lightly this one or restrict that 1, is all these uncertainties are there. But in the same situation, no further that situation. Then there is a [indiscernible] possibility for increase from 60% to 70%, 70% to 80%, 80% to 90%, like that.

The next question is from the line of Vibhor Singhal from PhillipCapital.

Sir, just wanted to understand, at this point of time, you mentioned that the execution in our site 2 is at around 50%. So what is the kind of -- basically, raw material availability? And are we facing any challenges in terms of getting the steel and required cement from their plant to our site? And how does that impact Q1? And also a related question, in the latter half of the year, do you expect order volume to pick up? And from which quarter?

Now material constraints, always some impact would be there. It is project to project and location to location. So cement as risk we are getting. But instead of getting today, the cement may come tomorrow like that's may be there. But in the early -- this restart as some transportational, logistical issues are there. Now gradually one after other will be sorted out. Now the key measures are in movement. So definitely, if the material comes from abroad, but basically, all our probably not depend on the abroad material or imported material and 90%, 95% on indigenous material is there. So some is insignificant to deliver, but not as significant to delay. For both steel and cement, we are getting. There's no problem in getting steel and cement and raw material is also we are getting.

No. Vibhor, actually in the month of April, even the highways were closed. So supply of raw material was in big constraint and all the construction companies were also asked to stop the work at project sites. But from 20th of April onwards, relaxations are given. Now the highways are open. Movement of goods is happening. So the availability of raw material has improved substantially. Only issue that we face right now is the migrate workers were stuck at the state borders and who were going to the [indiscernible] places and things like this. Despite that, in some places, we are having the workers with us, like our Bhatinda site in Punjab. So the [indiscernible] medical center, and about 1,400 people are working today. So likewise, some improvement is [indiscernible] there. And further improvement is also expected. And as far as the order award is concerned, you know it better than us because the economy has come to almost like a stand still. The government of the day is very keen to kickstart the economy. And the only way they can do it is to go and award as many infrastructure [indiscernible] as possible. Already that NIP in place, National Infrastructure Pipeline, that needs to be executed. And the order award is likely to pick up [indiscernible] second quarter onwards.

Right, sir. On the Nauroji Nagar and the Metro Bhavan project, are we expecting any execution in this year, sir?

Yes.

Yes. Nauroji Nagar already started. Metro Bhavan also -- we have started as well.

Both here started as well?

Yes.

The next question is from the line of Prem Khurana from Anand Rathi.

Sir, first question was on the premium cycle. So what we have been hearing in the market or we've been hearing from the media reports, it seems that under government as we have been [indiscernible] that they are gain on payments on time or rather we are acting proven activities and make sure that contractors release the payment within deposit time. So have we experienced this kind of scenario with any of our client or agents? And I have to add to that, which all segments would this be. We are going to be take this into more thrust in terms of payments for instance like health care or water sanitations, will that payment cycles are better than from some of the other segment or the -- for water and irrigation or for [indiscernible] healthcare -- or is it the same?

Remote payments collection. See, 1 thing is there. See, in the first 2 or 3 months of the current year or 2 months of the current year, because of this COVID-19 and also in the month of March also. The focus of the state government agencies has shifted from contract payment to 2 welfare measures and health care-related measures. Their entire focus is on that the state administration is also working on that added to that the migrant workers taking care, providing them shelter, providing them food and accommodation, all these things of staying here. But the financial issues given they are less and the we've been told via the government agencies to release the payments of the construction companies, some improvement is expected. In the month of March, also, we've got substantial payments. That's why our debt also has come down and cash flows have improved. And going forward also, there is a realization on the part of these government agencies, if the work is done certified, the payments should be released. So that the increment activity will keep on going on. So all these things should help us in terms of getting payments faster and quicker, particularly our Nagpur, Mumbai expressway, where when SPV is there, we have declared financial closure, funds are available on tap. And when the work is done and duly certified, payments are coming. They are coming very fast. And so that we are able to execute faster. So likewise, particularly, if you look at the central government agencies, like oil and gas and medical side. At 3 locations, we are executing 3 projects, each is of INR 1,000 crores. So there is no question of any delay in payments. The work is done and duly certified. Likewise, airport of Harita of India. Likewise the defense project at the [indiscernible]. So many of these agencies are triple year rated companies, like NHA. We don't have any difficulty in also getting the payments.

So you're not experienced any big this 1 -- in these 2 months also. The payment flow is more or less in the normal.

The next question is from the line of Parvez Akhtar from Edelweiss.

Yes. Sir, just wanted to get latest update on our Andhra projects. So what is the share of Andhra projects in our order book currently? Also, what is the working capital situation for the state as a whole? And net of, let's say, payments of mobilization advance that we would have received?

Yes. The AP projects now, we have about INR 4,479 crores in the order book. It is almost about 16% to 17%, below 20%. So as far as payments and other things are concerned, in the current year, we have received about INR 300 crores from this AP projects. And in some of the projects, the descoping is happening. And after descoping and now the discussions are going on for the settlement of the projects and the release of the payments. So in the month of March, also, we received nearly INR 100 crores. So another 4, 5 months, some more clarity in employing the projects will happen. Now the state government also, for the last 3, 4 days, a case that we are also attach to in restarting or to bring the construction activity into the force to provide employment and other good and fix.

See likely as far as the affordable housing is concerned, we already received a payment of INR 100 crores in the month of March, and the affordable housing projects are likely to start, particularly where our payments are received. It's all project wise. And as far as the capital city is concerned, the orders that we are doing, pertaining to the assembly buildings like we are doing the MLA on the IAF Officers quarters. That work is going on at full swing and is likely to be completed also very shortly. But the orders pertaining to secretariat building because the state government is planning to shift to the secretariat in Amravati to Vizag. They are likely to be canceled. They are put on hold for the time being. But we are having the dialog with the government on all these matters. And hopefully, in some cases, that they have agreed to return the bank guarantees. So that our bank guarantees will still be available. And also we requested them to set off the mobilization advance against receivables pending to be paid to us. That also will release the mobilization advance bank guarantees. And also the cost in the -- bank guarantee commissions obviously will not be there. But as I was mentioning in the beginning, last 2 months, our entire focus is on controlling this epidemic and so these focuses totally on welfare measures and now only slowly, the construction activity is also picking up, even in April.

Sure. Sir. So how big is the secretariat order out of this INR 4,479 crore?

INR 4,479 crore secretariat order is not there. We removed...

We already removed it in the order book because it's a slow-moving order. And the only thing that remains is our outstanding bills to be paid and our bank guarantees to be returned to us. We're not adjusting the mobilization advance.

Next question is from the line of Ankita Shah from Elara Capital.

Sir, my question was on the high-margin projects, which contributed to -- which contributed in the fourth quarter. Basically in the road, irrigation and mining segment that you mentioned. So just wanted to check their share in the order book currently? And will it likely to contribute in the next year as well? So are these margins sustainable? And secondly, just a related question to this, is any risk of execution on these high-margin projects due to the current COVID situation, which could impact the high profitability in these segments going forward on these projects?

Now whatever now the divisions or projects reported high margins in '19-'20. Those projects are still how the scope will move further, particularly the Nagpur, Mumbai expressway. It is the biggest project, it is up the way. So in 2021 also would be the other project enter real. Similarly, the Water division work started works in Odisha. They are also on the 40%, 50% level, another 60% to execute. Similar the mining project also, it grows in up the way. So like that, the projects water reported and those projects, also they are in the 2021, another aspect. Another 1 is we are all seeing it would be risky because of COVID-19.

If I told you could give us the share of all these high-margin projects in the order book?

Sure. The share of the high margin, about 30% to 35% would be there in this moment. So at this moment, we are not forcing any risk of the stoppage because of the COVID-19. Whatever, where ever these projects are there is high profit margin. At this moment, we are going in a normal way. There is not any big on this one. So COVID-19 also may not help unless any sudden change comes in the coming months. But at this moment, the areas where these projects are located, the works are going.

Okay. Sure. And any thoughts on the margin profile going forward?

On the movement, you mean.?

Overall, on the company level, margins, if I hope so.

Market's company level, we got in plan because it -- but largest water -- so water can be in this one, in the corner some extraordinary miracles write-ups will happen in the '19-'20. So the margins are sustainable. But the COVID-19 -- due to COVID-19 definitely some sort of additional expenditure would be directive project to that extend to some impact on the margins should be here.

The next question is from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital Market. As there is no response from the current participant, the next question is from the line of [ Jitain Joshi ] from [ Ashish ] Capital.

This will be the last 2 questions. We already -- We've been talking for more than 50 minutes, and the time constraint is also there. Maybe after this question, we will take 1 more question on the projects.

[indiscernible]

Yes. Sir, any -- can any of you give us the impact on the loan [indiscernible] investment in subsidiaries and the bank limit, nonfund and fund limit?

Sure. You see we are enjoying about INR 1,200 crores of limits to the consortium of banks guided by FDA. Out of that, the bank guarantee limits are about INR 9,000 crores and actually it was sort of about INR 1,000 crores. So rest is about INR 2,088 crores still refund base limits. As far as the --pardon?

Utilization level is how much, sir?

Yes. It varies.,, But as far as the BGs are concerned, around 90% utilization is there. LCs is slightly less, about 75% or so. And fund base level, it fluctuates, sometimes 75%, sometimes it goes up to 90%, 95% also. And as you know, they hold -- converted 60% of refund base limits into working capital loans. They are locked in for that period, 90 days or 180 days, so they -- we cannot do anything. Only the balance, 40%, which is the overdraft accounts. There, we can reduce utilization based on the cash flow for the company. So that is how it is happening. What is the other question you asked other than bank limits?

Loans and advances.

The loans and advances to group companies?

INR 413 crores of the -- that is the loans and advance outstanding as of March 31, '20.

So it is under INR 560 crores [indiscernible]? [ 64 plus 6 ].

See, loans and advances to group companies at the end of the year, financial year is, INR 567 crore. Both short-term and long-term focus is INR 565 crores.

The next question is from the line of Ashish Shah.

Have you avail of the moratorium, which is the facility which is available?

No, we have not avail. We have paid the interest for the month of March and April also, may also have plan to pay. But recently, the reserve bank has come out with the annual 3 months of moratorium up to August. And also, they put a clause that the moratorium that is granted for 6 months can be converted into FITL, a funded interest term loan, but they directed the banks to convert those interest amounts into FITL and give it as a separate loan to be repaid on or before 31st March, 2021. Now each bank has to follow -- take up at the Board level, set up a facility and convey to companies like us, we are likely to take advantage of that because our cash flows will improve. And in all probability, these loans may carry a lesser rate of interest. And also, I would like to bring to your notice based on the RBA directions, all the banks are giving COVID loans. They call it COVID loan, up to 10% of the working capital limit. If I am enjoying a limit of INR 100 crores, INR 10 crores is given as a COVID loan at MCLR without any markup, which is giving us at a very good rate. We got loans at 8%. We got loans at 7.25%. Some are in the pipeline likely to be sanctioned. Now since we have INR 2,088 crores of fund-base limits, assuming that all the banks in the consortium view this COVID loan, we are likely to get a cash flow of about INR 208 crore. That too at a concessional rate.

Sure. Sir, lastly, on the 2 arbitration, which have been going on, 1 for Himachal Sorang and other Sembcorp. Any update that you would like to share on them?

It's a topic, we are discussing with the counterparty for the out of core settlement, but last 1.5, 2 months, not much progress because of this complete shutdown of operations everywhere. As far as the Sembcorp is concerned, the arbitration award is likely to be declared by September 2020. We are also carefully waiting further. No arguments are -- all are more or less over. And based on the high court grant of additional time, the arbitration award is likely to be declared by September.

So thank you for giving us the opportunity to hold the call, and you can conclude the call.

We thank all the participants and also Centrum Broking, Ashish Shah and his team for giving this opportunity to talk to the investors. And we have concluded this level. And we thank you all for your participation, and if you have any further queries, you can send your e-mails to us, and we will be glad to reply to you separately. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you all.