NCC Limited (500294) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Q4 and FY '24 Results Conference Call of NCC Limited, hosted by JM Financial. [Operator Instructions] Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vaibhav Shah from JM Financial. Thank you, and over to you, Mr. Shah.

Yes. Thank you, Manhav. On behalf of JM Financial, I welcome everybody to the Q4 and FY '24 Earnings Conference Call of NCC Limited. We have from the management today, Shri R.S. Raju, Director, Projects; Shri Sanjay Pusarla, Executive Vice President, Finance and Accounts; and Shri Neerad Sharma, Head of Strategy and Investor Relations. So I hand over the call to the management now for their opening remarks, after which we can begin the Q&A. Over to you, sir.

Good evening, everyone. At the very outset, I thank each of you for taking out time to attend this interactive meeting. As you are already aware, I have with me, my colleagues, Mr. R.S. Raju, Director Projects; and our CFO, Mr. Sanjay Pusarla. About 15, 20 minutes back, we have uploaded the results on the stock exchange website and one investors presentation as well. Hope you have been able to download the presentation and go through the numbers. As you are aware, we have declared an excellent set of numbers for the fourth quarter and for the financial year 2024. I will hand over to Mr. R.S. Raju.

Good evening to all of you. Thank you, Mr. Vaibhav Shah. Before we read about our financial results of the company for the Q4 and 12 months period of the FY '24. I want to give introductory remarks. So thank you, Mr. Vaibhav Shah. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. A warm welcome to all of you to the Q4 and 12 months period of the FY '24 Investors Earning Call of NCC Limited. The presentation containing the performance of Q4 FY '24 and 12 months was uploaded on the stock exchange website and in our website. Now I will take you through the key highlights of the fourth quarter. And thereafter, we will take you the questions and answers. So before my briefing on the Q4, the usual disclaimer of the presentation that we have uploaded on the stock exchange and our website yesterday, including the discussions that we will have in this call, contains or may contain certain forward-looking statements relating to NCCL business prospects and profitability, which are subject to several risks and uncertainties, and actual results may materially differ from those in such forward-looking statements. Now coming to the current period, all of you aware that this is a general election year and Lok Sabha elections are completed in some parts of the country and the remaining parts, the elections are going to be held in a couple of days. These elections followed based on state legislative elections in the year 2024, may have an impact on order booking, but little impact on progress of the NCCL business. Before going to result, just I want to mention about the significant matters which taken place in the 12 months period and more specifically in the fourth quarter. The SPV smart meters, you are aware that the company has secured 3 small meter projects value of INR 7,403 crores. Out of 3, 2 projects we require in corporate SPV's and accordingly, we now incorporated 2 SPV's for 2 projects valuing INR 5,356 crores. The work sharing between SPV and NCCL, the SPV's has given a contract value of INR [ 3,660 crores ] by retailing at SPV level of INR 2,095 crores. The equity tie-up for these 2 projects is in good progress and investment bankers shown interest to invest and the management will decide the modalities in a couple of weeks. As far as debt tie-up is concerned, we already approached banks and SBI Caps as recommended our debt application to SBI and we expect the sanctioning in a couple of days from the SBI. As far as Bihar smart meter project is concern NCCL doing on its own, already started the work and erection is done for some sample testing meters. The sample testing is in progress by the client. And other major projects which NCCL doing is UP Jal Jeevan Nigam Projects. There is a good progress in execution of this Jal Jeevan projects in UP and these projects contributed significantly in Q4 and 12 months in the top line. Under the total orders of [ INR 16,900 ] crores, we have executed up to March 24, about 53%. It may take another one year to complete the major part of Jal Jeevan projects, second phase and third phase and [indiscernible] project. You know that we received a larger size project valuing INR 3,802 crores a year back, we received but now we received the environmental clearance to proceed further for the execution of the project. So already other facilities are mobilized and in '24, '25, this project expected to report a good progress. NCC Vizag Urban. We have received INR 52 crores in '23, '24 and another INR 65 crores we received in the April, May '24 and an aggregating to INR 119 crores we received [indiscernible]. The balance of INR 35 crores, again a share [indiscernible] to receive in '24, '25 and apart from that one, we also expect to receive another INR 50 crores against the loan from the buyer of the project. Sembcorp, you are aware that the Arbitration Tribunal has been an award for a total amount of will be INR 198 crores, out of which we received INR 151 crores and balance INR 45 crores pending. And both the companies went to the court under section 34 and the outcome, it takes some more months to know. As far as AP projects are concerned, there is no any major change. And we have about INR 701 crores orders at the beginning now the order value has come down to INR 598 crores related to the Capital City projects. As far as BGs are concerned, we have INR 267 crores value of BGs at the beginning of the year. Now it has come down significantly to INR 67 crores, a decline of nearly INR 200 crores in the 12 months period of the year-end review. So similarly, the outstandings have come down from INR 157 crores to INR 147 crores. And another significant matter taken place is settlement of TAQA. All these quarters, we need to tell about the status of the TAQA. And in the last meeting also, we express that [indiscernible] settlements are in progress. Now the [indiscernible] settlement is reached between the 2 parties, according to the settlement, we refer to pay INR 175 crores on installment basis out of which INR 90 crores was made in March '24 and balance INR 85 crores payable in 2 installments during '24, '25. On account of the settlement, there is an impact on P&L of NCCL about INR 55 crores and the same is observed in the Q4. In the PTTL, another pending related to the PTTL or associated companies. The lenders of PTTL made a claim in NCLT against PTTL. In fourth quarter, we have received a settlement award from NHAI and they deposited in the consortium brand account for further distribution to all the lenders. All the lenders are given no objection certificate and accordingly the PTTL pending is now closed. And another transaction is an NCC IHL versus [ GIWEPL ]. All of you aware that [ GIWEPL ] has invested 37% in NCC IHL. And at the same time, NCC IHL has invested its money equivalent to that in the form of [ optionally ] converted debentures in [ GIWEPL ]. So in fourth quarter, NCCL has acquired the investment from [ GIWEPL ] as a result. NCCL now has become 100% subsidiary of NCCL. [ GIWEPL ] in turn using the sale consideration to redeem its OCDs held by NCC IHL. So these are the major significant transactions taken place in 12 months as well as in the fourth quarter. Now coming to the fourth quarter performance, the first I will discuss on the order book. So order book at the beginning of the year, we have INR 50,244 crores. And in fourth quarter, we received INR 6,044 crores and in fourth quarter, we have executed INR 5,949 crores. As a result, the closing order book now stands at INR 57,536 crores, as against INR 50,244 crores showing a growth of 15%. So we targeted for the year, the new orders about INR 26,000 crores, but company received orders of INR 27,283 crores a little lower than its plan. So the orders executed in 12 months period is INR 17,991 crores. Similarly, the order side increased significantly from INR 578 crores of last year to INR 780 crores. In the year '23, '24, we secured 35 number of orders. So this is about the order book. Now I want to brief our operating and financial performance of NCCL for the Q4. On a stand-alone basis, the company reported a revenue of INR 5,500 crores against INR 4,047 crores, a growth of 36%. The revenue primarily driven by the Buildings division and Electrical divisions, which in turn driven by the UP Jal Jeevan Mission project mostly. The gross profit reported as INR 771 crores against INR 634 crores, a growth of 22%. Similar the gross profit margin reported is 14.2% as against 15.8%, a decline by 1.7%. The company has posted an EBITDA of INR 510 crores as against INR 424 crores, an increase of 20% against corresponding quarter of previous year. The PAT reported INR 188 crores against INR 178 crores, an increase of 6% over corresponding quarter. The EBITDA margin reported 9.4% against 10%. The other income reported for this quarter is INR 42 crores as against INR 31 crores. Coming to the cash flows, stand-alone Q4, on a stand-alone basis, the fourth quarter, the cash flows of INR 1,146 crores generated from the operating activities has against INR 2,123 crores year-on-year. The net cash flows using in the investing activity is INR 148 crores against cash flow generated to INR 55 crores. The net cash flows using financial activity is INR 615 crores against INR 1,082 crores. Now coming to the 12 months stand-alone operating results. The company reported a revenue of INR 18,459 crores against INR 13,504 crores, a growth of 37%. The revenue increase is primarily due to more revenue from Building and Electrical divisions, again, which in turn, again, good progress on the Jal Jeevan Mission project. The gross profit reported as INR 2,590 crores against INR 2,170 crores, a growth of 19%. The gross profit margin 12 months is 14.14% against 16.25%. The adjusted gross profit margin for 12 months period is 15.7% as against an adjusted margin of 15.52% of the previous year. We know that in the second quarter, some major impact that happened on account of Sembcorp settlement. As a result, we have workout adjusted margins. So the adjusted gross profit margin when compared to the previous year, there is a decline, but the decline is only to the extent of 0.45% for the previous year. The company has posted an EBITDA of INR 1,648 crores against INR 1,343 crores, listing a growth of 23%. The EBITDA margins reported as 9%. Adjusted EBITDA is 10% as against to same 10.06% for the corresponding period of previous year. It means there is no any big change in the EBITA margin on an apple-to-apple comparison. PAT reported at INR 631 crores against INR 569 crores. PAT margin, 3.4%, but adjusted PAT margin is 4.57% as against 4.2% of the previous year. Cash flows for 12 months on a stand-alone basis, nearly INR 1,248 crores generated from the operating activities as against INR 873 crores of the previous year. So the net cash flows used in the investing activity is INR 333 crores against INR 132 crores. The net cash flows used in financial activity is INR 707 crores against INR 749 crores. So the above cash flows indicate that there is a significant increase in the operating cash flows from INR 873 crores to INR 1,298 crores in '23, '24, which shows the kind of collections and the kind working management done by the company. So that is about the stand-alone. Now I want to brief consol Q4. This quarter reported a turnover of INR 6,530 crores against INR 4,980 crores at a growth of 31%. So the gross profit reported as INR 851 crores against INR 692 crores, a growth of 23%. So the gross profit margin reported is 31.1% as against 13.9%. The EBITDA reported INR 554 crore as against INR 462 crores, a growth of 20%. Now the PAT reported at INR 210 crores against INR 185 crores, a growth of 14% over the corresponding quarter of previous year. Now go to the 12 months consol. This 12 months period reported a turnover of INR 20,971 crores as against INR 15,701 crores, an increase of 34%. But gross profit reported INR 2,780 crores as against INR 2,336 crores, a growth of 19%. EBITDA reported INR 19,083 crores against [ INR 14,059 ] crores, a growth of 22%. The PAT reported as INR 711 crores as a INR 609 crores, a growth of 17%. So I briefly touch about the group companies. There are 2 companies actively reporting the top line and the profits. One is Pachhwara Coal Mining Private, another one is NCC Urban. So in this 12 months period, Pachhwara Coal Mining Private has reported turnover of INR 1,829 crores as against INR 1,780 crores of the previous year. Similarly, NCC Urban has reported a turnover of INR 389 crores as against to INR 370 crores in the corresponding 12 months of the previous year. So the total group companies reported a turnover in this 12-month period is about INR 2,533 crores as against to INR 2,199.78 crores, a growth of 15%. So the stand-alone company reported growth of 37%, and these group companies reported topline growth of 15%. Coming to the balance sheet. In this the investment, the investments in this quarter increased from INR 875 crore to INR 1,033 crores, which on account of the equation of the NCC IHL phase from the [ GIWEPL ]. Next CapEx. In fourth quarter, we have spent INR 114 crores and in the 12 months period, we have spent about INR 249 crores. Inventories. The inventories slightly increased in the 12 months period from INR 1,078 crore to INR 1,434 crores, about INR 356 crores and this increase in this period is in line with the increase in the volume of activities. Trade receivables. The trade receivables declined by INR 150 crores in 12 months period from INR 2,945 to INR 2,791 crores, though there is an increase in the top line. The trade receivable days for the year-end review significantly come down to 57 days from 87 days, almost a lowest in the decade. Retention money is also significantly come down from INR 1,930 crores to INR 1,595 crores, a decline by about INR 425 crores, which is in turn due to receipt of settlement amount from Sembcorp. Unbilled revenue. Unbilled revenue increased from INR 3,225 to INR 3,859 crores, an increase of 20% as against increase of 37% in the top line. By [indiscernible] in terms of percentage of turnover has come down from 24% to 21%. Working capital. There is a significant improvement in working capital days from 102 days to 76 days, lowest in the decade. As a percentage of turnover is reported 20% of sales revenue as against 29% of the previous year. In terms of value, the kind of working capital come down from INR 3,870 crores to INR 3,700 crores despite increase in activity by 36%. Debt. The debt has come down from third quarter to fourth quarter by about INR 400-plus crores and stands now at INR 1,005 crores. Compared to the opening debt of the year, there is a slight increase of INR 25 crores in the debt. So in the previous investors call meeting, we said that the debt may stand at INR 1,300 crores or so by the year-end. But now it stands at INR 1,000 crores because of the good collections that happened from the clients in the March '24. And the mobilization advance is decreased from INR 2,755 crores to INR 2,311 crores, a decline by about INR 440 crores. So there is no increase in debt, but there is a decrease in mobilization advance it shows about companies working capital management. As we come to the ratios. The loss reported for FY '24 is 14.04% as against 13.41% of the previous year. Similarly, the return of net worth that is [ PBT/net worth ] reported 13.56% as against to 12.95%. On a consolidated basis, the growth reported is 15.77% as against 14.41%. The another significant matter taken place here is the credit rating. We received a handful credit rating in AA- from the credit ratings. So with this, we expect further improvement in our products the terms loans, our working capital loans, BGs, LCs cost, we are expecting some improvement in the cost point of view. The last but not least item is about the guidance. We have given our guidance for order book for the FY '23, '24 at INR 26,000 crores, whereas we have achieved INR 27,283 crores. And top line, we have a guidance growth of 20%, but we achieved 37%. So for the year, '24, '25, we give a guidance on order booking about [ INR 20,000 crores to INR 22,000 crores ] considering the present market environment, particularly the general elections followed by some state assembly elections. And the top line growth guidance about 15% plus as against 20% guidance given in the last year. Similarly, for the EBITDA margins, we've already seen about the margins of the margins. So we expect the margin -- a better margin, 9.5% to 10%. However, these numbers are subject to impact of the elections, if any. Now this is about the brief on the NCCL Q4 and 12 months operating results. Now the session is open for participants of their questions and we answer the questions.

[Operator Instructions] We have our first question from the line of Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securities.

Congratulations on a good set of numbers. My first question is on the margins. Our margins used to be 12%. It has been declining from 12% [ become 8% ], but you're guiding again for a softer margin, again, 50 basis point correction looks like given the order book, do you think any chance of margin surprise in FY '25? And are we targeting a slightly higher number as you go forward, maybe a couple of years, hence forth can we expect a better margin, more than 10%?

As about the margins, now the company's focus is on to secure more orders and other [ sales ] orders. And in the market is a competition. And to get the orders, we have to compromise at 1% or 2% at gross profit margin level. So this is an experience of the last 2, 3 years as the result company decided its philosophy to quote to get more orders and do more turnover. And as a result, a 35% [ DCF ] a 35% growth company reported on the top line. And those gross profit margins are lower, but ultimately maintain that bottom level margins at PBT at that level, improve the margins at that level. That is the focus we are making. But the companies in the plan, we are making an improvement in the net profit margins year-on-year, at least by 50 basis points on every year. So like that, the company management philosophy is there. So accordingly, the business model is there. So the gross profit and EBITDA margins as a result last year reported 10%. Now again, 9.5% to 10% to we have given us guidance. So as far as order booking is concerned, this year election period, and definitely 5 to 6 months period, every company lose in getting the orders. We don't know how the things take place. But we have given [ INR 20,000 crores to INR 22,000 crores ] is the minimum benchmark to secure. So if things -- if there is no impact -- good impact on top of the elections. So we may get more others, but a minimum of [ INR 20,000 crores to INR 22,000 crores ] is the benchmark the company has kept.

Mohit Kumar, If I may add a couple of things. Yes, yes. Firstly, this is also a function of the competition prevailing in this space as this space gets more competitive, generally, the price levels tend to go down. But I think it is better to look at the profits, the PAT or PBT, whatever that you preferring terms of absolute numbers, I mean in rupees crore. Then you will see a clear direction that we are moving northwards always. And going forward, the guidance that we have shared with you, that is 9.5% to 10% is for the current year, that is FY '24, '25. Going forward, next couple of years, our intention is always to keep the needle moving.

Understood, sir. My second question, sir, what was the CapEx and equity invested for FY '24? And what is the guidance for CapEx and equity investment in FY '25?

In FY '24, we spent about INR 285 crores. And for the FY '25, we are targeting to spend about [ INR 250 crores ].

That's on the CapEx side, sir, on the equity side, sir, equity investment in the subsidiaries?

Yes. Equity investment, it varies between INR 100 crores to INR 175 crores depends upon the requirement and progress of the -- recently received the smart meter projects under SPV.

Sir, total number will it be below less than INR 2 billion for FY '25 for everything? Am I right, sir?

Yes.

We have our next question from the line of Shravan Shah from Dolat Capital.

A couple of clarification and data points. Sir, if you can repeat the retention money number of mobilization number and loans to associates and subsidiary. Sir, I need a data points on retention money as on March mobilization advance and loans to subsidiary and associates?

Yes, one minute up, we are repeating it, okay? Please note down. The retention money INR 1,505 crores, the mobilization advance is INR 2,311 crores. Other item you asked please?

Loans to subsidiaries and associates.

It is standing at INR 509 crores.

2,509?

No, no, 509. I think we'll repeat again for your benefit. Retention money has gone down some INR 1,930 crores in the last year to INR 1,505 crores. And mobilization advance, it has gone down from INR 2,755 crores to INR 2,311 crores, okay? Loans has come down from INR 549 crores to INR 509 crores.

So total investment in subsidiary and associates including investment and loans now is INR 1,544 odd crores?

Yes, right.

Okay. Okay. And sir, a couple of clarifications. You mentioned the TAQA settlement. So in this fourth quarter, how much we have INR 55 crores, you mentioned, this is booked in other expense or where it has been booked?

It was shown as an exceptional item.

Got it. And the prior year tax of INR 36.82 crore in FY '24, is that entirely in the fourth quarter or?

It is not entirely for quarter, it is over a period of 12 months.

Okay. Got it. And sir, now how we look at in terms of the base level and in terms of the finance cost for this for FY '25?

Finance cost now for the current year in terms of percentage works out to about [ 3.23 ] interest cost for the year '23, '24. And for next year, we expect we expect some 30 to 40 basis points direction.

Okay. So as a percentage of revenue, we are seeing some reduction in that, so does that mean on absolute level also INR 595 crores of finance cost will reduce in FY '25?

The same level about INR 10 crores or INR 20 crores in that level would be there, there won't be any significant change.

Okay. And on the working capital and the debt level, how it will look by end of FY '25?

So we are targeting now, we have at [ INR 1,005 crores ] and we are targeting to reach INR 500 crores by end of '25.

And working capital, any further improvement possible?

Working capital, in terms of working capital, there's yes, still 2, 3 days reduction would be there. But in absolute terms, there's about some amount get increased 15% plus growth, but in terms of days or in terms of percentage, a little reduction we expect.

We have our next question from the line of Parikshit Kandpal from HDFC Securities.

Congratulations on a good quarter. So my first question is on the stake purchase of 37% for INR 240 crores. So if we can understand the rationale behind this? And how did you arrive at INR 240 crores with consideration? And what are the balance assets in this entity?

This is a old transaction. Originally, the transaction taken place some 6 year, 7 years back. At that time, there is pre-understanding are there. At the time, the [ GIWEPL ] is a partner in our NCC power company. So at that time, basing on the restrictions or conditions, we use the [ GIWEPL ] shares to transfer to the Sembcorp. And in terms given the stake in our NCC IHL equivalent to that amount, the rights we have given to [ GIWEPL ] 37% stake in the NCC IHL. At the same time, the NCC IHL has invested a similar amount in the form of CCDs are asking to convert debentures in the [ GIWEPL ]. So in all the books, the transactions are continuing for the last 5, 6 years. We are waiting for the swapping of this transaction over a period of time. Now in the current year, we have taken up this exercise and exchanged the same thing, it is nothing but the swapping of the transaction, canceling of closing of the transaction. So we reacquired the stake of the 37% from [ GIWEPL ] at predetermined price. It is not the market to our time and price and other things. On the same amount, they used for redeeming the debentures issued by them to the NCC IHL. This is between -- among the 3 companies, this transaction has taken place. It is nothing more or less a paper type transaction or transactions entries, transaction closed in the books of accounts. As a result now, NCC IHL has become 100% to a subsidiary of NCC. There is no profit. There is no loss in the transaction.

Mr. Parikshit, this is not really a new transaction. This is something that we have just affected. This was an agreement that we entered into several years back.

But is it a cash or a noncash item, sir? Is it a cash item or a noncash item...

The fact that the matter is you are aware that long back, we had one power set, and we wanted to sell that power set to Sembcorp, the acquirer. But due to some permissions, we could not sell because we had to transfer all the whole linkages and everything. That is the reason this arrangement was made between us and the Gayatri. So in other words, this is just the unwinding of the pre-agreement -- pre-agreed milestones. So this is just a sort of paper transaction if you prefer that word, there is no cash involved in this.

Got it, that is what I wanted to check its cash on noncash item, sir.

I hope that answers your question.

Yes, yes. Sir, secondly, on the order pipeline, I mean, though, given that almost half of this year will go around elections, government formation somewhat and it is expected to get delayed, but which sector -- I mean, are you looking at new sectors to compensate for the shortfall and then are you looking at solar projects, so to build up the order book. Are you open to take subcontracting works for BOT toll projects from other leading developers? Because I think you don't invest in equity-intensive projects in both segments. So any sense on how do you intend to make up for the shortfall?

Yes. But see, the prospective pipeline of the projects, which we expect to come up for bidding post the elections, we continue to see a very healthy pipeline. And at least in 3, 4 major verticals in which we are present in a major way, for example, our Buildings division, our Transport division, the Water division, the Electrical T&D, we continue to see a very healthy pipeline of projects. So and then in light of that fact, if you have -- you must have noticed that we have sort of toned down our order inflow guidance for the current financial year. These 2 verticals that you are talking about solar EPC and doing plain vanilla kind of contract for the BOT players. We have looked at this space in the past. But it doesn't really make sense for a company of our size, our cost structure to really get into those kind of businesses. But if a suitable opportunity projects itself, in front of us, we are open to look at this possibility. But not to say that these 4, 5 verticals in which we have a lot of exposure, we expect a healthy pipeline of projects to come up for bidding. There may be a delay a quarter year or quarter there. But we think this award should pick up post the election July, August? And that said, we have one of the highest order books that is already available with us. That gives us good visibility even if there is a delay, let's say, a quarter here or there, we have more than sufficient amount of orders already available with us to execute. All that we need to do is to go out and execute.

Okay. And just the last question. Now we have settled a lot of historical thins dating that like 7, 8, 10 years. Now I think you did mention about in the Pondicherry project [indiscernible] project where -- I think you mentioned about NCLT claims. So any more further write-offs or diminution in value or exceptional item expected in FY '25. So if you can quantify anything more coming in from future settlements? Any last ticket item pending to be?

At the moment, we do not foresee anything which is material, okay? Even if it is there, small things may be there, but nothing material we are foreseeing now for the year FY '25. Mr. Parikshit, the impact -- this last year, that is FY '23, '24 has been a year of cleanup. If you really -- you are a person that tracks the company closely, last 5, 6 years, whenever we got an opportunity to interact either with an investor or analyst. We got asked this question, what is happening to Sembcorp. What is happening to TAQA? What is happening to this Vizag real estate divestment, we are happy to report that in a single year, we have cleaned all these things. We have put all these demands to rest. So we are sort of starting with a relatively clean slate now.

And this Pondicherry project nothing is to be written off, right? NCLT settlement, which you spoke about in Q1?

Nothing, nothing more. And whatever settlement we reached with NHAI. That is a settlement, which has been agreed with the consortium of lenders also. And this has been [indiscernible] and paid to the lenders, and the case is completely settled now.

And just on the Vizag, how much is pending to be received both as equity and both as part of that impairment?

INR 33 crores is the equity part that we have to receive, the debt would be about INR 350 -- close to INR 350 crores debt.

When does the debt gets paid off?

In the next 2 years. That is -- our target is March 26.

We have our next question from the line of Ketan Jain from Avendus Spark.

Yes. Sir, what is the rate of interest are you seeing it financing smart meter projects?

It is between 9.5% to 10%. And the term sheets are now under discussion with the lenders.

We have our next question from the line of Prem Khurana from Anand Rathi Shares and Stock Brokers.

Congratulations on a good set numbers. Sir, I joined a little late, sorry, if it is a repeat. In terms of the smart metering orders, and we were supposed to have a partner in place which would have reduced capital intensity. So any progress there? Have you been able to kind of find any partner? Where are we in terms of -- stage of discussions with the partner?

Just big investment in smart meters. According to our calculations, the equity investment requirement for those projects were sort of INR 500 crores. For these 2 projects which are being handled by the SPVs. And the other project anyhow, it is doing by NCC on its own. So for these 2 projects the equity investment, it is about INR 500 crores. This moment, the NCC is looking partly to increase from its own and partly from the others. And the discussions are taken place already with the investment bankers and investment bankers showed interest to invest. But we have not decided to modalities how much amount, what is the premium those modalities will take place in another couple of weeks.

But then I mean, we want to do it, it is not that we would be very particular about the valuation and -- or we want to have certain premium?

As I said all the discussions and interactions, so we went with the investment bankers. We also prepared the models and paperwork, everything we have done. But in the modalities management will decide in couple of days basing on the requirement.

Second, I mean if you could help me reconcile the cash flows. I mean, I was looking to kind of understand the non-core parts a little better. So this quarter, if -- and another thing you said you've paid INR 90-odd crores to TAQA, right? And the balance would go next year, INR 85-odd crores will go to TAQA next year?

Yes.

And TAQA its the NHAI amount came and then went to the lenders, right? So now that I mean -- we do not benefit or lose out on any cash because of that settlement or the claim?

Yes. There is no any benefit of that one, only some expenses to be incurred with the banks that are already observed in the year '23, '24.

And the Sembcorp money came in Q3 or Q4?

Q3, we received that money.

Okay. And about Vizag, sir, was there any money which was received during Q4 or it came after Q4? I mean April or May, I think you said in your opening remarks, you received some INR 65-odd crores?

Vizag real estate money, we received some part in the March '24 and some amount we received in the April and May '24. Here the INR 65 crores, we are received in -- INR 67 crores we received in April and May '24.

Mr. Khurana, all the equity payments that we had to receive from them has come, but INR 33 crores. So about INR 200-odd crore equity that we had to get from the buyer, we have already received minus INR 33 crores.

And the loan amount that is due, I mean it still continues to carry that coupon rate and that will be supposed to received?

That's right. But that is something that is expected to come back to us in next 2 years' time, March '26. In this year also, they promised to pay INR 50 crores against loans beside this equity amount.

The other thing is the agreement that we have signed with the buyer has a clause that says that there is escrow account that is going to get opened, whatever real estate sales which are done for this project comes to this account. So sort of -- the kind of secured payment for us.

But I'm not sure how would this work. I speak to you on this offline because I thought the money needs to go in an escrow account, which would be held through the RERA account and then on the -- and it needs to be utilized?

Mr. Khurana, we have made a full proof kind of agreement. I would be happy to discuss this with you post this call.

Sure. No problem. And just one last if you could help with the UBR number, please. I mean I missed that number.

21% of the revenue is the all time high.

UBR number he is asking. It is 21% of the revenue. The INR 3,800 crores is there in the books as of March 31, '24 and it works out to 21% of the turnover, and there is a declined from 24% to 21% in this year.

We have our next question from the line of Anupam Gupta from IIFL Securities.

Just one question on the execution guidance, which you have said 15% revenue growth. So far, during the election period, have you seen any impact on execution till date?

Mr. Gupta, it is a sort of forward-looking kind of statement. We have not really finalized the numbers for the quarter.

Not for the quarter, for the year only, sir. I am asking for the year only, sir. Your guidance is 15% that is fine, but given the order book, it ideally can be higher. So I was just taking the election part of it? Has it so far has an impact on execution at all?

Yes, there is some kind of impact because of the elections in the last 1, 1.5 months, the activity is -- because primarily NCC has got all the government only, okay? The equity was going on and the payments and all were not being released on time, okay? So there is definitely an impact because of this. Elections are still midway, Mr. Gupta. Still it will take time for us to thoroughly assess because we are not really working on 10, 15, 20, 30 sites. We have hell lot of sites to really work that number out. But there would be some impact. But whether that impact is minus 20%, 10% or minus 30%, that is difficult to assess at this point of time. I would be happy to answer that question post at the time of the first quarter call.