Netel Holding AB (publ) (NETEL) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Welcome to Netel Q4 Report for 2024. [Operator Instructions] Now I will hand the conference over to CEO and President, Jeanette Reuterskiöld; and CFO, Fredrik Helenius. Please go ahead.

-- Q4 Results. My name is Jeanette Reuterskiold, and I'm President and CEO of Netel. With me today, I have Fredrik Helenius, our CFO. In the last quarter of the year, net sales grew 1.5%, driven by good development in Power in Norway as well as Telecom in Sweden and Germany. When it comes to profitability in the quarter, Power had a strong ending of the year with improved profitability and an EBITA margin of 11.6%. However, we saw a decrease in the quarter in Infraservices and Telecom, which impacted the overall profitability, and Fredrik will later go into details of that. Even though the underlying market trends are strong, our performance can, of course, fluctuate between the quarters because we are a product-driven business, where the timing of the projects completions affects our short-term development. The order backlog continued to develop favorably, and we see a growth of SEK 600 million in the last quarter, a strong development reflecting the underlying market trends we have in our segments and our strong market position within them. As you know, we announced a few weeks ago that we have made the decision to sell our operations in Finland. All numbers in this presentation refer to continuing operations unless other stated. Fredrik will later go into details of the effects in numbers and reporting. As part of our efforts to build a more sustainable and stronger Netel, we have conducted a comprehensive review and decided to divest our loss-making operations in Finland. During 2024, we have seen some improvements through several margin-enhancing measures, but considering our group strategic plan and the historically negative development we had in Finland, which we have aimed to address for several years. We believe that this decision creates greater opportunities to create and generate value for Netel in both short- and long-term. We are working to complete the sale in 2025. And until then, we will continue to operate and develop the business as usual together with our team in Finland. By divesting the Finnish operations, we can focus on Infraservices, Power and Telecom in the larger markets we have in Sweden and Norway as well as the growth markets we have in Germany and the U.K., where Netel is assessed to have greater opportunities to create value and reach our financial targets on the mid-term. 2024 has been a transformative year for us. We have developed a clear growth strategy and taking significant initiatives to build a stronger and more profitable Netel. A year ago, I introduced our new organizational structure, where we now primarily operate and manage by function. This shift has improved our ability to allocate resources more effective and better meet customer needs across our Infraservices, Power and Telecom divisions. It has also strengthened our capacity to identify business opportunities with both new and existing customers. One of these key initiatives is, of course, the preparations for selling our Finnish operation. At the same time, we have launched several efforts to enhance internal efficiency across all our processes. This includes working smarter, improving follow-ups and allocating resources more effectively. A crucial part of this transformation is increasing digitalization and implementing new group by digital tools. One of the most important of these is our business system, which will soon be fully deployed across the entire group. This system will be instrumental in enabling quick analysis, providing a clear overview of our progresses and ensuring efficient resource utilization. We have a strong market position in Sweden and Norway, where we see significant opportunities for growth, both with our existing customers and by expanding our customer base. A larger business with an extended geographical presence also increases our ability to create synergies. During this year, we have, for example, won new and bigger contracts with Telenor, UGG, Telia, Elvia and Vattenfall. Another milestone we are proud of is the validation of our climate targets by the Science Based Targets initiative, SBTi, in December last year. This validation allows us to continue strengthening our collaborations with customer and business partners as we work together to create a more sustainable and emission-free society. Now, before I'm handing over to Fredrik for more detailed comments on the financial performance, I will as usually present 3 projects to shed some light on our operations in our 3 divisions. Within Infraservices, besides water and sewage project, we also deliver products within service, for example, this project where we build a pedestrian and bicycle path undertaken by our company, Moberg on behalf of the Swedish Transport Administration. It is a construction of 3.5 kilometers pedestrian and bicycle path and started in 2024, and we will be completed in autumn 2025. And within power, our power company in Norway, Nett-Tjenester has signed a new framework agreement with Norway's leading energy company, Elvia. The agreement covers the design and installation of new control system for Elvia substations to a value of NOK 320 million. We deliver complete protection and control systems to existing and new substations and has a total responsibility for everything from planning and material procurement to assembly testing and commissioning. The agreement runs for 4 years with an option for additional 2 plus 2 years. This is a large and important agreement for Netel. It provides increased volumes and extended geographical coverage, and we are proud of the in-depth cooperation we have with Elvia. We have just started in this new contract and expect to see increasing revenue during this year. This is an important step to our growth expectations we have within power in Norway. In Telecom, our German team have won another contract with UGG for rollout of fiber networks. This contract covers the rollout fiber to over 7,000 households in Muldenstausee, near Leipzig worth EUR 50 million. The new product will start immediately and the rollout should be completed in 2026. In June this year, we announced another contract with UGG to roll out fiber to 5,000 households in Raguhn-Jeßnit, north of Leipzig worth EUR 10 million. We are very proud of UGG's extended trust. Germany is a fast-growing fiber market, and UGG is an important player with the goal to improving people's quality life to fiber networks. UGG is a German company; it's headquartered in Bavarian town in Ismaning. Founded in 2020 as a joint venture between Allianz and Telefonica Group. So, let's move on to our financial performance. Fredrik?

Thank you, Jeanette, and good morning, everyone. Starting with the full year '24, we delivered 3.1% growth, almost all organically, and reached SEK 3.3 billion in total sales. We saw growth across all 3 divisions with Infraservices in the lead, almost 9% growth in Infraservices, and in particular, that was during the first half year, which was on the stronger side. Margin-wise, we reported an adjusted EBITDA of 5.2%, down from 5.7% last year as we saw lower volumes within Telecom from U.K. and Germany and due to Infraservices, which came down in the year-on-year comparison. However, we closed '24 in line with the provided indication in January and with an all-time high order backlog of SEK 4 billion for continuing operations. Now before digging into the Q4 performance, we will walk you through the status of the process regarding Finland and the outcome of the Finnish operations, given that from this report and onwards, will report those operations as discontinued. As previously said, we have decided to -- let's see if we can get the correct slide, like that. We have decided to initiate the process of divesting the Finnish operations, and we expect to confirm closing during '25. Whilst we, of course, focus on our continuing operations, the process with regards to Finland has started, and we are evaluating our alternatives to move forward. As of today, we do not have any details on the specific time line or the valuation. But as said, we expect to close the divestment during this year. Our discontinued operations have not performed in line with our expectations. And we believe that, as [indiscernible] said, both Netel and the Finnish operations will have better opportunities by finding a new structure. Finland is from now on considered discontinued and reported separately in all of our statements. Finland's performance in '24 reported in line with the indication that we provided with SEK 241 million in sales and a net profit after tax of minus SEK 105 million. As the decision was made, we evaluated and stress tested relevant positions, contracts, and projects, the organization in Finland. And the outcome and loss for '24 includes what we believe to be necessary updated assumptions regarding the business to enable a successful divestment process. This means that the fourth quarter and the full year '24 includes additional costs with regards to the organization, the projects, other business-related activities, and also estimated costs for the transaction and ongoing process with regards to selling the operations. The divestment process has, however, not implied any adjustments to other intangibles or goodwill for the group. This is our position as of today. And as I said, the financial outcome includes our estimates for the coming process as well. We will, of course, get back to you once we have additional details on the process. Now the following slides will refer to the continuing operations, just as the reported as we published earlier today. And looking at the financial performance for the continuing operations, the fourth and last quarter, we grew by 1.5%, driven by a good development in Power in Norway and from new growing sales within Telecom in Germany and Sweden. This provided important answers for us, both for both divisions, Power and Telecom as we continue with growth in Germany and as we turn back to growth for the Norwegian Power business. All in all, we delivered SEK 957 million in the quarter compared to SEK 943 million last year and almost SEK 3.3 billion for the full year, as we said. During the last few months, we have had the pleasure to release contracts with, for instance, Elvia in Norway and UGG in Germany. And together with other added contracts and orders in our existing agreements, we grew the order backlog to an all-time high level of just above SEK 4 billion for the continuing operations. The underlying demand is promising with the need for electrification, digitalization, improved infrastructure, and we believe that we have a good position with the existing order backlog. And together with additional volumes, we can enable the stepwise improvements towards our financial targets on mid-term. In terms of profitability, we recorded an adjusted EBITDA of SEK 57 million with a margin of 6% in the quarter, slightly below the 6.9% last year. The profitability was driven by a strong performance from Power and Sweden with a series of finalized projects and good margins, especially regarding substations that we saw. We did not fully manage to reach last year's margin in total as we saw lower margins from Telecom and a few projects with profitability and a continued competitive market within Infraservices. This holds for the full year '24 as well, where we recorded SEK 169 million in adjusted EBITDA with a margin of 5.2% compared to the 5.7% last year. We continue to believe in our process as we now enter '25 with a strong order backlog and continuous measures for further growth and improved profitability. Turning to cash flow. In the fourth quarter, we saw that we once again achieved the best quarter for the year, in line with so often referred to seasonality where we are able to close projects and finalize our invoicing towards the end of the year. We reported SEK 71 million as the operating cash flow for the group during the quarter. Telecom and Norway contributed on the positive side as did power and especially Sweden, where we had a good run closing profitable projects. The cash flow in the last quarter was affected by fewer projects being finalized. And for the year-on-year comparison, we note that '23 was very strong and benefited from the release of cash previously tied up as working capital. For the full year '24, we delivered SEK 115 million in operating cash flow, below last year due to lower profitability levels, but also certain one-off effects, as, for example, the SEK 70 million positive effect from a legal dispute in '23. Looking at '24 stand-alone, we closed the year with around 10% net working capital in relation to sales, which we believe is within expected levels for our business. And we achieved improvements within projects and increased the cash flow awareness across the group. And with these levels, we believe that we are on track to reach our potential going forward as well. Closing '24 also meant that we paid the remaining earn-outs. And in total, we recorded an outflow of SEK 124 million from earn-outs during the year. Effectively, we remain above our capital structure target on net leverage being around 2.8x in comparison to the target of 2.5x. But we continue to have a solid liquidity and we'll continuously focus on cash flow activities to gain advantages and improve our financial position. If we take a look at the performance across our divisions, Infraservices delivered sales of SEK 238 million in the quarter, just below last year for the full year. Infraservices contributed to the growth for the full year volume with SEK 844 million in sales, up with almost 9%. As previously mentioned, the profitability within Infraservices was negatively impacted by some less profitable projects in the quarter. And as we still know, there's relatively higher competition within our markets, we recorded an EBITDA of SEK 14 million or 5.9% compared to 11.7% last year. For the full year '24, we delivered a 6.4% margin below last year where we saw very good performances across the entire division and year and a very strong Q4. We believe that we have good opportunities for Infraservices as well as our other divisions, and we continue to evaluate our new orders on the basis of our mid-term financial targets. Within Power, we produced sales of SEK 317 million in the quarter with a growth of 3.2%. Norway increased the production within both our power service contracts as well as from projects and stations, and added to the division's growth in total. Sweden, on the other hand, managed to finalize projects with better margins, which resulted in an EBITDA of SEK 37 million in the quarter and a margin of 11.6%. With the strong delivery here in Q4, we closed the year at just above SEK 1 billion in sales and with improved profitability to 7.6%. Power remains as a very interesting market with key drivers being digitalization trends and the need to increase access and capacity across our power systems. And we are happy to recognize the growth for Norway in the quarter as we have released recently won contracts with important customers, and previously within the industry sector as a new strategic initiative. Q4 marked the end to 2 profitable years for the division with good performances, and we are looking to add additional volumes going forward to the order backlog and try to utilize on the momentum in the underlying market. Telecom delivered SEK 402 million in sales in the quarter and continued with growth despite lower yearly volumes from our growth markets. While U.K. remained on the low side, Germany continued the growth for the second quarter in a row and added important volumes to the division, partially from the new contracts, as we previously mentioned with UGG. Sweden closed the year with good progress, especially within Mobile Networks as the swap of certain equipment was to be finalized before year-end. And for the full year '24, Telecom showed growth and remained slightly above SEK 1.4 billion. The EBITDA of 0.5% or SEK 2 million in the quarter was negatively impacted by lower volumes in U.K. We are not satisfied with the SEK 40 million or 1% margin for the full year '24. And as previously stated, our focus on increased margin remains. However, as we now see new volumes and the growth in Germany, we are implementing new tools for efficiency within our biggest service contracts in Norway and have interesting opportunities in Sweden, we share the view of the true importance to increase the profitability and expect a stepwise improvement going forward. Telecom is our biggest division today with almost 45% of sales, and we aim to leverage on our order backlog today and new contracts in order to increase our profitability going forward. Finally, '24 implied a lot of activities, as previously described by Jeanette, where we have been working with actions for a new organization, both in terms of structure and personnel, actions to increase efficiency. We have seen new customers and increased geographical presence. Again, this resulted in an overall organic growth of 3% and adjusted EBITDA of SEK 5.2 million and a cash flow from operations of SEK 115 million. Now leaving '24 and having our eyes on '25, we entered the year with a solid order backlog of SEK 4 billion, out of which more than half refers to '25, and we enter '25 with continuous measures for further growth. Improved profitability is key, but we further know that we have the ability to generate healthy cash flows. And with our earn-outs paid, we can continue and increase our focus on the balance sheet, monitoring our net leverage position, evaluate necessary debt levels for our business. We need to continue to improve our financial stability. And with market rates continuing to improve, we can gain advantages and together with better projects and profitability levels, reach our financial targets in mid-term. We certainly have a lot to do and look forward to '25. And with that, I believe that we are ready for some final remarks from your side, Jeanette.

Yes. Thank you, Fredrik, for this in-depth presentation. I will finalize today with the presentation with some concluding remarks on our growth strategy and how we build a stronger Netel forward. We have a clear strategy and plan for how we will grow and improve our profitability step-by-step. As we said earlier, we operate in markets that are driven by strong megatrends. We have a strong position in these markets, and we are, therefore, very well positioned to continue growing and creating value. Our strategy to succeed in this, divided -- is divided into 3 areas: growth, operational excellence and our talent. We see clear opportunities to grow with our existing customers in all geographic areas as we have proven under 2024. We have long-standing relationships with many of our customers, and we now know that we managed to exceed their expectations. We therefore, have the competitiveness to be able to grow existing customers by winning contracts that can encompass both larger geographical areas and new areas of responsibility. We have also identified opportunity to enter new customer segments, not least in power, where we have begun to approach the industrial sector in 2024. This opens up new existing opportunities that we are approaching step-by-step. With our customer base of large, well-established, both listed and publicly-owned companies, we know that sustainability is an important competitive advantage. More and more of our customers and also suppliers want to work even closer so that together we can contribute to a more sustainable society. Our activities in the area of sustainability are therefore, an important and competitive advantage and also a step in building a stronger Netel forward. The second area is operational excellence. We have already covered in the presentation, and we are pleased with the progress we have made in 2024. The activities to improve operational excellence, we aim to both strengthen our offering to customers and improve internal efficiency. These initiatives often go hand-in-hand. For example, a more effective risk management in our products not only benefits our own profitability, but also means that the customer can benefit from us delivering with good quality in time and within budget. Last but for us most important, we must secure that we have the best talent in the industry. There is a competition for talent, and we are working focused to build our employer brand with the goal of keep and develop our employees and attract new talent. These strategic initiatives lay the foundation for a stronger and more sustainable Netel. We are confident that we have a clear, well-developed plan that we will continue to deliver on. And with this, we open up for questions. And as you know, you can either call in to us or mail questions through the webcast.

[Operator Instructions] The next question comes from Gustav Berneblad from Nordea.

Maybe just to start off here, I mean, looking at the order bookings, it seems to have accelerated up 12% quarter-over-quarter. Would you say that this is a consequence of more projects coming out on the market or are you taking market shares? Or what's your view here?

Yes. On our point of view, we actually are taking market positions, especially in the Power segment, but as well actually in Telecom with the new agreement, for example, with Telenor in Norway, and also with the new contracts with UGG in Germany. So, I would say a lot of it is that we are expanding in geographical and with other services as well.

Okay. Interesting. If we look at the order backlog today, are you seeing the share of projects related to power becoming sort of a larger share or larger percent of the backlog? And would you say that this is likely to drive a favorable mix here going forward?

Yes. I would say, in the Telecom, the kind of contracts we have there in the service agreements, they are often very big and for many years. So normally, that's a proportion in the order backlog is coming from Telecom, but we see an increase in the order backlog as well in Power and Infraservices.

Okay. Perfect. And then looking at the margin here in Power, it looks to be surprisingly strong here in the quarter. Would you say that this is abnormally high for this quarter? Or is there a reason to think that this segment is boosted somehow? Or should we sort of extrapolate this?

The margins for Power in the fourth quarter is mainly driven by the very strong ending from the Swedish performance and the closing of several substation projects that we managed to close out with exceptionally good margins. So, we value this quarter as a very strong one for us, if that answers your question, Gustav.

Yes, definitely. And then just the last one here, sorry. The margin in Infraservices looks to taking a quite big hit year-over-year. And you comment on finalization of lower-margin projects. But can you just explain, is this cost overruns for these projects? Or did you take them initially at lower margins? Or what can you say?

No, I would say that it is a competitive market for us, but we always go in with our contracts in line with our financial targets. But it is -- if we compare to '22 or '21, it's more competitive for us to win projects if we compare the profitability that we have had in Division Infra. But for these products, the contracts are okay, but we have managed -- have some problems manage some of them, which ended up with a lower margin.

The next question comes from Karl-Johan Bonnevier from DNB Markets.

Coming back to just getting some more color on the backlog. Is it possible you could divide it up a little between the areas or geographies so we feel what is driving the big move there?

Yes. As I said earlier, we have a strong backlog. And within Telecom, it's normally unusual that we have big contracts for many years, which are reflected the order backlog, of course, with that. But we have seen stronger development for the order backlog also within Power. And we see in Infraservices, we have more contracts that are smaller and normally for 1 year ahead. So, there is -- you could more or less see the order backlog as a comparison on the sizes of our divisions.

Excellent. And given that you have struggled a little bit on the profitability in the service contract, and I think you earlier normally alluded to that that the order backlog will support your margin target of 7%. Is that still true? Or should we have maybe a lower profitability kind of assumption for the backlog?

No, that's still true. We have expanded a new agreement with -- framework agreements in, for example, in Telecom then in Norway with for us, better contract, both increase in geographic area and services provided in that contract. So, we expect it's step-by-step to improve our margin in those contracts. But as you know, and I told you the contract we go into, they are for many years, and it's very important to us that all the new contracts that we have taken last year and so forward is that we are matching our financial targets on mid-term then. So, we expect to step-by-step improvement.

Excellent. And Fredrik, I think you mentioned that more than half of the backlog is supposed to be delivered during the current year. And do you see the room when you look at, say, other opportunities in year kind of things to then come up to your level of growth ambitions that you have in your financial targets of around 10% per year. Is there -- nothing is going on in the pipeline and in the market for you to deliver growth here or is that too ambitious?

I mean, we believe that our position entering the year now is good. Then, of course, this is a natural part of our business. We have a lot of single-year contracts. Infraservices usually are working with a lot of tenders during the early parts of the year and the very same contracts usually end towards the end of the year. So, given the order backlog of above SEK 4 billion today, out of which we say that more than half refers to '25, we see that we have good opportunities for our business, but we still have to continue to evaluate new alternatives and win new contracts for '25 year as well.

And on that basis, is it Infraservices where you have the biggest, say, hold to maybe find orders for and work for during this year? Or is it spread over all areas?

Yes, I would say that Infraservices is -- we still see that in 2025, it will be a competitive market, but we are expecting that it would be an increasing market due to the housing projects, especially now in Sweden, maybe we start more housing building. So, we expect a bit of a -- in the end of the year anyway. But for us, in the markets, we see more or less the same situation that we had 2024 as 2025. And we will continue with the same strategy that we have done in 2024 with new contracts, and we are strong in the markets we are. So, we are expecting that we also can improve our capability to run the product as well to increase our margin for Infraservices this year.

Excellent. And Fredrik, just a couple of questions on the cash flow as well. Good highlighting the impact of Finland on the cash flow. Was that back-end loaded during the year? Or was that evenly spread out over the year? Because I couldn't really make up the Q4 numbers on the reported levels on cash flow.

Yes. We present the cash flow from both the entire group, given that cash flow is -- I understand it's a bit tricky to back out. Then we present the cash flow for the continuing operations and for discontinued operations in the report. So, you have all the numbers there, Johan. But Finland provided for the year, almost minus SEK 60 million in operating cash flow. And that was -- well, in general, spread out throughout the year, but it was backloaded towards the second half year. And I think that we saw up to minus SEK 8 million in the fourth quarter.

And when you look at waiting that the operation is disposed of and leaves you, is it fair to assume a similar kind of SEK 15 million to SEK 20 million kind of negative operating cash flow coming out of that?

Sorry, take that again, Karl-Johan.

If you look at Finland still being part of the group, obviously, until you dispose of it, or the agreement. Is it fair to assume that it's going to be a burden of SEK 10 million to SEK 15 million on a cash flow basis over the quarters that you still have it?

I mean, that all depends on the process going forward. We have made our assumption and estimates now for the cost base for the selling process. Then potential impact cash flow-wise also depends on the potential transaction going forward. So, it's hard for us to comment on today.

And also on the cash flow, are you now finalized, say, the last of the acquisition payments that you have?

Yes. So, we paid SEK 125 million almost during '24 and we are now down with our earn-outs, which means that we have another situation looking forward, and we'll continue with our cash flow activities and continuously increase the cash flow awareness across the group. Making sure that we get the needed action that we want to have within our projects.

Excellent. And looking at the working capital situation at the end of the year, do you see opportunities for further releases there? Or are we now in a more of a stable situation?

I think that we will always have things to work on. I think that the level of awareness regarding cash flow can still increase in our tender processes, in our projects, in our finalization phases in the projects. And this is something that will continue to be key for us as it gives us the most important answers on our progress in the projects and the business. So, I mean, the focus will remain and we expect that we will still have things to work on. For instance, we have seen now within Telecom, which has been a rather tougher market for us in terms of cash flow that we have managed to get better terms. We have managed to get sort of front-loaded invoicing processes in some of our Telecom projects. And that's additions to what we have seen in the past. So, we will continue on that ambition and try to decrease the needed level for working capital in our business.

Excellent. But when I look at 2025, is it true to say that it is really the profitability drive that you're talking about that is also going to be the driver of the cash flow rather than some other items.?

Yes. As we said, profitability is key. We need to improve our profitability. Our focus is on how we can improve our profitability and we expect to leverage on the order backlog. But again, we have to continue to work on our ambition with regard to working capital items and other cash flow activities as well.

The next question comes from Kristoffer Carleskar from Kepler Cheuvreux.

I'll start with an M&A topic in light of you deciding to divest Finland. How should we think about your M&A strategy going forward? Is it like a step back from the M&A scene and you're not having that the toolbox to expand operations? And maybe you can weave in that if there is still M&A in your toolbox? Is that rather in-market consolidation? Or would you look for new markets?

In our long strategy, of course, M&A is an important activities for us further on. But for now on, our main strategy is to focus on our financial stability and financial platform to be able to continue with M&A. But on the long-term, it would be a value for Netel in our strategy to work with M&A. So, we have our ears out and always look for potential on long-term. But for now, our strategy is to get our financial stability within.

Yes. And I certainly agree. I mean, Finland is a business-driven decision. Strategically, M&A will continue to be an important part for Netel in terms of growth in the longer-term. Then again, we need to increase and have our focus on our financial stability and consider the effects and the opportunities that we have today on our balance sheet.

Understood. Very clear. And going back, you mentioned profitability quite a few times today. And if we look at the EBITDA margin profile of your different divisions, it's quite, you say, very different profiles in Q4. So, we see, for example, power having a massive quarter, right? So, can you talk to us about what is like the sustainable levels and the different profiles of like Infra, Power, Telecom in terms of margin? Is there a reason to believe that one should be much higher than the other?

No. I think our aim is to have all our 3 divisions on our financial target levels. But as we have said earlier, we have a product driven, especially within Power and Infraservices, product-driven or contracts, which between the quarters and year in that way as well, fluctuate margin results during that. But our main target is that we should get our divisions on our financial target levels. But it's going to be, as you can see for Telecom, which is our biggest, it is a step-by-step journey for us.

And just to build on that, you mentioned margin-enhancing measures today. I had some technical problems dialing in, so maybe I missed this and apologies in that case. But could you please elaborate a bit what you have done or what you're doing to actually expand your margins?

Yes. It always starts with the contract. So, our new contracts have another position than our old contracts have had. And it takes time to deliver on the contracts and go into new ones. And of course, when we start these big new contracts, it always is a bit of also a delay before we can see the result of them as well, both on the revenue and on the margin. We always have some cost in the beginning and so forth. But I would say we can see the development from there.

Got it. And maybe last one on the U.K. I mean it's another full quarter. So, could you talk to us about the game plan to get back to growth? What's the market situation? Are you winning any contracts? Or is competition just too harsh at the moment?

Well, I would say in U.K., it's been a bit hard for us, but we also have changed our strategy, what kind of contracts. And also, customer base, for us, what will be good for our organization in U.K. So, it's been a transformative year as well in U.K. considering customer base. And we are looking forward further on to present the development there in the U.K. But for our part, it's been a change of customer base, I would say.

[Operator Instructions] There are no more questions at this time. So, I hand the conference back to the speakers for any written questions and closing comments.

So, thank you, everybody, for today, and we look forward to see you next time for our quarter 1.

Thank you, everyone. Thank you.

The host has ended this call. Goodbye.