Netwealth Group Limited (NWL) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Davyd Lewis. I'm a nonexecutive director of Netwealth Group Limited. I'll be chairing today's AGM due to our Chairman, Tim Antonie, unfortunately currently being unwell and unable to attend. On behalf of my fellow directors, I am pleased to welcome shareholders to the 2021 Annual General Meeting and declare the meeting open. I acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians of the land, sea and waters from which each of us might be joining today; and pay my respects to the elders past, present and future. The agenda for today's meeting is I'll make some introductory comments regarding the conduct of the meeting and address governance and sustainability. Matt Heine will present the Joint Managing Directors' report detailing last year's financial performance, provide an update on this year's first quarter and discuss the company's key strategic initiatives. We will then move to the business of the meeting that comprises the consideration of the annual report and the approval of the remuneration report, the granting of long-term incentive award to Matt Heine, the increase in nonexecutive directors fee pool and the appointment of Kate Temby as a nonexecutive director of the company. While today's virtual format may be familiar to some shareholders, I acknowledge that it may be less so for others. We have structured today's meeting to provide you a similar opportunity to participate as you would at a physical meeting. This includes being able to ask questions through the online platform in relation to each matter of business. [Operator Instructions] I do encourage shareholders who have questions to submit them as soon as possible. Voting on the resolutions will be conducted by way of a poll using the electronic voting card you should receive after clicking the "get a voting card" button on the top right-hand side of your screen. If you have any trouble using the platform, please check the online portal guide made available today in the download section at the bottom right-hand side of your screen or contact the help line also shown on your screen. Let me now introduce the -- our Board of Directors who are present at various locations. Our Board comprises myself, chairing today's meeting. I'm also Chair of the Remuneration and Culture Committee and Chair of the Compliance and Risk Management Committee. Our Joint Managing Directors, Michael and Matt Heine; Sally Freeman, Chair of the Audit Committee; Kate Temby, Chair of the Investment Committee and the recently formed Corporate Sustainability Committee. Kate joined the Board this year, on the 1st of February; and stands for election today. We're very fortunate that Kate accepted our invitation to join the Board, and I'll provide more detail as to Kate's qualifications when we consider her election later in the meeting. I would like to thank my fellow directors for their commitment and hard work and support throughout a very busy past year. I would also like to pay particular thanks to Jane Tongs, who retired as Chairman and director of Netwealth on -- in February 2021 following the release of our half year results. Jane was appointed Chairman upon establishment of the -- of Netwealth 20 years ago and was Chairman of the company when we floated on the ASX in November 2017. Jane has led the company on an extraordinary journey of success. Under Jane's leadership, Netwealth has developed from a startup with 3 employees, no revenue, no infrastructure to a highly successful and profitable ASX 200 company. On behalf of the directors, staff, shareholders of Netwealth, we thank Jane and wish her well with her current and future endeavors. I'm pleased to report an excellent financial result for Netwealth in financial year 2021, highlighted by EBITDA growing by 19.9% to $54.1 million (sic) [ $79.4 million ]. This strong growth in earnings was driven by a 16.9% increase in revenues at $144.9 million on the back of a significant increase in funds under administration to $47.1 billion at 30 June. Achievement of this result in a COVID-impacted environment is due to the dedication and skill of the Netwealth executive management team comprising Grant Boyle, John Hanrahan, Al Densley, Rachel Axton, Phil Coldwell, Amanda Atkinson and Damian Holland as well as our Joint Managing Directors, who are all online today. And also, thank you to our exceptional team of dedicated staff now numbering in excess of 400, spread across Australia and Vietnam. Amid lockdown after lockdown, the Netwealth team has grown -- shown great commitment, skill and agility to achieve significant earnings growth and high standards of service in a rapidly changing financial landscape and regulatory environment. Particularly challenging has been the introduction of so many new staff members who joined the company since the first lockdown and are yet to meet in person any of their colleagues. I commend the existing staff in welcoming, training and supporting their new team members and making them part of the team. We look forward to meeting new and old staff, hopefully, in the not-too-distant future at our new offices at 180 Flinders Street, which have been designed to support innovation and collaboration. Netwealth operates in a highly regulated environment, and the Board takes its compliance and governance responsibilities extremely seriously. Sound governance is fundamental to our long-term success. Netwealth is committed to being genuine; and always acting ethically, transparently; and being accountable. Netwealth is -- Netwealth's full corporate governance statement is available on the company's website, in the shareholders section. The Netwealth superannuation fund has assets of $16.8 billion at 30 June, a 45.2% increase on the prior year. In accordance with one of the recommendations that the Hayne Royal Commission handed down in February 2019 that super trustees be prohibited from assuming any non-super duties, Netwealth has established a new entity, Netwealth Superannuation Services, which was granted an RSE license and appointed the trustee of the Netwealth superannuation fund on the 1st of July 2021. This allows the trustee to owe a duty to the superannuation fund and its members alone. Rita Harris was appointed as the Independent Nonexecutive Chairman of NSS on the 1st of January. We're very fortunate to have been able to appoint Rita, who is a qualified lawyer and has extensive experience in the financial service industry with specific experience in superannuation having worked for a number of years in key senior roles, including within Mercer. Jack Diamond was also appointed as Independent Nonexecutive Director of NSS on the 1st of January. Jack has over 25 years of experience in asset management and superannuation funds. Michael Heine, myself and Sally Freeman have also been appointed to the Board of NSS. In the past year, we've worked with our shareholders, staff, customers, advisers and other stakeholders to determine our corporate sustainability strategy and where you would like us to focus our attention. The feedback gave us a clear indication and has led to create 4 key pillars to our corporate sustainability framework: first, to invest in our core. You want us to be best in class, which means investing in our systems, products and services. Matt Heine will talk to in -- to this pillar in his presentation. Second, to ensure we have diversity, talent and well-being amongst our people. We are a people-led business, with their health, well-being, diversity and development critical to our ongoing success. Third, to be transparent and genuine in our dealings. You want us to be honest and open. And we are doing this, including recently our first modern slavery statement, tax transparency statement and workplace diversity report. Fourthly, to create a positive environment and social impact. Where possible, we would like to give back to our community and have a -- and we have a number of new programs. While our carbon footprint is small, we are focused on reducing it further. More information about our corporate sustainability report is available on our website. I'd like now to invite Matt Heine to present the Joint Managing Directors' report. Following Matt's presentation, we'll address the formal business of the meeting.

Thank you, Davyd. And thank you to everyone that has dialed in today. At Netwealth, it is our purpose to enable people to see wealth differently and to discover a brighter future. And it's this purpose that drives the Netwealth team to deliver innovative solutions for our clients and has been absolutely critical in maintaining our focus during the challenges presented by COVID during the past 18 months. Equally, our values at Netwealth have provided existing and new staff a way of maintaining and understanding the unique culture that we have. And as a business, we remain curious, optimistic, collaborative, agile, genuine and courageous as ever. As you heard from Davyd, from a financial perspective, we are really pleased to have had yet another very successful year despite what was and continues to be a very challenging period for many. For the financial year, we delivered total income of $144.9 million; NPAT of $54.1 million; and $0.221 earning per share, including a fully franked dividend of $0.1856 per share. All of these metrics, importantly, are significantly higher than the prior year. We've also made a very strong start to financial year 2022 with a record net flow of $4 billion which was achieved in the first quarter. And subsequently, we've upgraded our guidance for net flows to be achieved in FY '22 to increase from $10 billion to $12.5 billion. Pleasingly, we've also reported record FUA which reached $52 billion at the end of September, and we've also exceeded $10 billion in managed accounts. And finally, our Global Specialist Series or GSS funds have also had a strong start to the year and have grown by $0.4 billion or 37.2% versus prior corresponding period. In relation to our strategy, it continues to be focused on delivering market-leading services coupled with the best technology to our clients and partners. And it is why we have the confidence in our ability to continue to grow the market and our share. To this point, we are committed to increasing our investment in the information tech team in FY 2022, and we continue to invest in our long-term strategic advantage. Importantly, our efforts in service and development continue to be recognized by third-party researchers. And we are really pleased to have been named the best advice product of the year by Chant West for the fourth year in a row. We're also pleased to have won in 4 out of the 6 categories in the Investment Trends competitive analysis and benchmarking report, ranking #1 for product offering, reporting, decision support tools and transaction tools. Additionally, in the recent Investment Trends adviser technology needs report, Netwealth retained its #1 rating in the industry for overall satisfaction among primary users for the 10th year as well as being rated #1 for value for money. Looking ahead, there is a large and growing opportunity for us to increase our market share. And there's no doubt that we have been and continue to be a benefactor of the industry disruption [ credit since the ] royal commission. On the 30th of June, Netwealth has a market share of 4.9%, which was an increase of 1%. And Netwealth is now the sixth largest and the fastest-growing platform provider in net flows in Australia. Earlier in the presentation, I mentioned that we were continuing to invest into our core products and into our new products, and this is very much our strategy moving forward and for the foreseeable future. We believe that it is important that we have a strong market -- a strong and market-leading core platform but also that we continue to build out and support a single ecosystem for not only our investors but also for the wealth professionals that use it. We've got a clear strategic focus on -- in ensuring that data sits at the very center of everything that we do; and that this is [ where we will feed ] into our flagship wealth products, being our investment wrap, super wrap, managed account and GSS funds, but also into some of our newer products such as XWrap which was launched during FY '21 and also our new mobile offering. As part of our whole of wealth strategy and ecosystem development, our new mobile app was released in mid-July and will continually be enhanced with updates and upgrades as we develop additional features. The Netwealth mobile app has been designed to differentiate the way that we provide services to the emerging affluent or to the growing group of millennial customers joining the Netwealth platform, making sure that the features and functionalities that we deliver are useful to all market segments and to let our clients and advisers see the account balances with a range of new charts and visualizations to view their wealth. This app can also be branded for advice firms, and colors can be chosen to match the firm's colors and individual client preferences. We're really excited to have it live, and the feedback to date has been fantastic. In the future, we'll be adding features to the mobile app, including the ability to give our clients the ability to look at transaction listings; and moving forward, be adding the ability for them to easily interact with their advisers through digital consent on advice documents, document signing, document storage and also cash flow management tools. The road map is really exciting. And we'll continue to build upon the increased engagement we've seen with the way clients are interacting on mobile and how frequently and long they are logging in and using the new mobile app. Further to the release of our new mobile experience, we're also excited by the opportunity to expand our product set and to further assist our advisers by offering off-platform administration. In financial year '21, we launched XWrap, which allows advice firms to manage clients' off-platform assets or noncustodial assets on the same platform as they do their custodial assets. We've had significant interest from our large clients. And we have recently announced we'll be launching our own administration service for all off-platform assets. We believe there is a significant opportunity to not only grow our share of activity outside of the immediate custodial platform but also to add additional revenue streams and increase our income per account. Advisers have suggested to us that around 20% to 30% of their client assets are being held off platform and they need a solution to assist with this. We want to work with advisers to provide a product that removes this manual administration burden from them; and also to allow them to focus back on providing service and advice, which is where they can add the most value to their clients. During last financial year, we also announced our investment in Xeppo, which is further evidence of our commitment to our whole of wealth strategy; and will enable us to deliver rich client data to our advisers and clients, also allowing advisers to add value to their clients in new ways not traditionally featured in the platform market. So in summary. Our business is performing well, and we've delivered a really strong growth across all of our key metrics in financial year 2021. We've increased our financial 2022 outlook for net flows due to the strong start we've had this year. And we recorded a $4 billion net flow for the first quarter. We continue to invest into our whole of wealth offering, focusing on new digital client engagement tools and developing new products. Industry trends remained favorable and we expect to continue to achieve increases in market share. We're pleased to remain debt free and with all internal costs and product maintenance expensed and are proud to have delivered an increased dividend in FY '21 of $0.1856 per share. I'd like to now hand back to Davyd Lewis to take any questions at this point and to conduct the formal business of this meeting.

Thanks, Matt. We'll take questions from shareholders in respect of the formal resolutions as each resolution is put to the meeting. [Operator Instructions] To ensure that questions reach us in time, I'd ask that you submit them now if you haven't done already. If we receive multiple questions that are similar, we'll amalgamate them into one or choose to answer the broadest question which will cover all the others. Are there any questions that have come through from our shareholders in relation to the Chairman or the managing directors' address?

Davyd, there are no questions received, so far, for the Board. I'm not too sure about online -- on the phones, rather.

Thanks. Moderator, are there any questions on the phone?

We are showing no questions on the phone at the moment. [Operator Instructions]

Thank you. So we'll now return -- now turn to the formal business of the meeting. The notice of meeting dated the 23rd of September 2021 has been sent to all shareholders and other persons entitled to receive it within the notice period. The matters requiring consideration today are outlined in detail in the notice of meeting, and I propose to take the notice of meeting as read, so we'll now move to the items of business for this meeting as set out in the notice. The Netwealth Group annual financial statements for the 2021 financial year, together with the auditor's report and our annual report, which is available on our website. There will be no vote on this item. It's a discretion -- a discussion item only. Joining us today from our auditors is Neil Brown; and Grant Boyle, our Chief Financial Officer. Are there any questions on the annual financial statements and directors' report or the auditor's report that have come through today, Grant?

There are no questions on the auditor's report. There is one late question that came through on the -- on Matt's update. The question relates to the flows. And the question was, do you attribute any of the strong flows in the first quarter from the outage that one of our key competitors experienced?

Matt, would you like to deal with that one?

Yes, happy to. [ So it's not ] appropriate to comment on our competitors, but it is fair to say that it's a very fast-moving market at the moment and we're seeing a lot of opportunities for across the board.

So going back to questions on the annual report. Are there any telephone questions [ on the report ]?

We do have someone registered for a question: Mike Robey on behalf of John Whittington.

My name is Mike Robey. My -- please send our respects to your Chair.

[ Thank you ].

As I said, my name is Mike Robey. And I'm a volunteer company monitor of the Australian Shareholders' Association. First of all, we'd like to thank you, the Board and pretty well everybody who works at Netwealth for producing another great results in these very challenging times. My question is about current industry dynamics. There's a lot of talk of consolidation, which was referred to in the previous exchange, particularly given HUB24's recent bid for Class, so what are the risks and opportunities of such consolidation to Netwealth? And in particular, if Netwealth is likely to be making an acquisition or being in a merger and wishes to raise capital, we would encourage you to use the PAITREO method, which we believe is the fairest to retail shareholders. And if you could, I'd appreciate confirmation on that and perhaps some commentary about opportunities.

Yes, thanks, Mike. Obviously we're not -- no company is going to speculate on market speculation, but I'd like to direct that question to Matt generally in relation to market opportunities.

Thanks, Davyd. And thank you for the question. It's a good one. Look. There's certainly been a lot of activity and a lot of consolidation in the market. We've seen Iress buying OneVue. Clearly, HUB has announced the acquisition of Class recently, which is an interesting one and obviously outside of the typical platform market. And we're also seeing the banks continuing to look at divestment of their businesses. So Colonial FirstChoice through to KKR. And Westpac has flagged their intention to sell the BT Panorama platform. So our current strategy is one that we've adopted now for the last 21 years. We believe that organic growth has been, have been excellent for us; and so we want to make sure that we remain very focused on the organic part of our business. Outside of that, we will look for opportunistic opportunities, if you like. And you will have noticed that we invested 25% -- or bought 25% of Xeppo 12 to 18 months ago as a way of expanding our capability and getting access to a part of the market which we hadn't previously played in. So we're always open to opportunities, but organic growth has also been very successful for us over the years.

Thanks, Matt. If there are no more questions, I'll move to item 2 of the business of the meeting, which is adoption of the remuneration report. Item 2 [ is for ] shareholders to consider and, if thought fit, pass the following resolution as an ordinary resolution: that the remuneration report which forms part of the directors' report for the year ended 30 June 2021 be adopted. Are there any questions in relation to this resolution?

No questions have been lodged, Davyd.

And moderator, have we got any telephone [ queries ] in relation to this resolution?

Yes. We have another question from Mike Robey.

[ You talked to me as -- recently to ] discuss your remuneration structure and the reporting. As we [indiscernible] in that meeting, we would appreciated a table of actual remuneration in your remuneration report in future years. They are what is sort of becoming the norm in majority of ASX 200 companies. And it's basically there, I think, because retail shareholders really don't understand much, other than what actual received remuneration is in prior years. And as we also mentioned, we would prefer to move towards a full year performance period on long-term incentives sooner rather than later; in other words, put the L back into the LTI. Any comments?

Yes. Thanks for those, Mike. As we've discussed -- and we've taken both of your comments on both of those things on Board. In relation to setting up what you might call take-home remuneration, we accept the logic of what -- of that. There is a problem that it does ask for you to add sort of apples and oranges because, for in -- for example, in the current year, the remuneration for Matt would have included base and short-term incentive [ in terms of ] cash. And he also received [ vesting sort of ] long-term incentives in the form of shares. The -- what he received was cash and shares. And you could put a dollar value on those shares and get a dollar total, but that would not represent his remuneration for the year. It would represent his remuneration for the whole period during -- the whole vesting period for those shares. We accept that some shareholders do prefer that form of disclosure, so we will consider that, but the reason we -- one of the reasons we haven't done it in the past is we think there are some issues with producing a single figure that is potentially somewhat misleading. In terms of deferral period for long-term incentives, there are different views on the exact length of that. Clearly the market is moving towards longer deferral periods and CPS 511 [indiscernible] and [indiscernible] requiring longer deferral periods for a significant port of -- part of long-term remuneration and -- long-term incentives, and we will be moving towards that over time. Any other questions?

None on the phones.

And none [ in the portal ]...

Yes. [ A voting ] restriction applies to item 2, which I will read out. The company will disregard any votes cast on item 2 by or on behalf of the person who is a member of the company's KMP who is named in the remuneration report for the year ended 30 June 2021 and their closely related parties, regardless of the capacity in which that vote is cast; or as proxy for -- by a person who is a member of KMP on the date of the meeting and their closely related parties. However, the company will not disregard a vote if it is cast by a proxy on behalf of a person who is entitled to vote on item 2 either in accordance with the directions given on the voting form or by the Chairman of the meeting in accordance with an expressed authorization in the proxy form to exercise the proxy even through -- even though item 2 is connected with the remuneration of KMP. The voting form includes this authorization to enable the Chairman of the meeting to cast undirected votes, which I will do. I invite all eligible shareholders. Please now to cast your vote if you have not already voted on this item. And we'll give you 30 seconds to do that. [Voting]

Now shown on the presentation slide are the details of the total valid proxies for this item. I will now move on to the next item, item 3, the Joint Managing Director's long-term incentive award. Item 3 is for shareholders to consider and, if thought fit, to pass the following resolution as an ordinary resolutions: that for the purposes of ASX listing rule 10.14, approval is given to grant 75,000 options and 23,825 performance rights to Mr. Matthew Heine, on the terms set out in the explanatory notes in the notice of meeting. Are there any questions in relation to this resolution?

We received no questions, Davyd.

Moderator, are there any telephone queries in relation to this resolution?

[ I'm really ] showing no telephone questions at this time.

Thank you. Again a voting restriction applies to this item 3, which I'll read out. The company will disregard any votes on item 3 cast in favor of the resolution on or on behalf of Mr. Matthew Heine or his associates, regardless of the capacity in which the vote is cast; and cast in favor of the resolution by a person referred to in ASX listing rule 10.14.1 or 10.14.2 who is eligible to participate in the equity incentive plan; and cast as a proxy by a person who is a member of the KMP on the date of the meeting or their closely related parties. However, the company will not disregard a vote if it is cast as proxy or attorney for a person entitled to vote on the resolution in accordance with a direction given to the proxy or attorney to vote that way; or by the Chairman of the meeting as proxy for a person entitled to vote in accordance with an expressed authorization to vote as the proxy decides; or by a holder acting solely as a nominee, trustee, custodial or other fiduciary capacity on behalf of a beneficiary provided the following conditions are met. The beneficiary provides written confirmation to the holder that the beneficiary is not excluded from voting and is not an associate of the person excluded from voting on the resolution. And the holder votes on the resolution in accordance with the directions given by the beneficiary to the holder to vote in that way. I invite all eligible shareholders. Please now cast your vote if you have not already voted on this item. [Voting]

Shown on the presentation slide are the details of the total valid proxies for this item. I'll now move to the next item. Item 4 is for shareholders to consider and, if thought fit, to pass the following resolution as an ordinary resolution: to increase the nonexecutive directors' aggregate fee pool to $1 million per annum under ASX listing rule 10.17. Are there any questions on this resolution?

No questions, Davyd.

Moderator, are there any telephone queries on this resolution?

We're showing no telephone questions at this time.

Thank you. Again a voting restriction applies to this item 4, which I'll read out. The company will disregard any votes on item 4 cast in favor of the resolution by or on behalf of a director of the company or their associates, regardless of the capacity in which the vote is cast; and cast as a proxy by a person who is a member of the key management personnel on the date at the AGM or their closely related parties. However, votes will be -- will not be disregarded if they are cast as proxy or attorney for a person entitled to vote in accordance with the direction given to the proxy or attorney to vote in that way; by the Chairman of the meeting as proxy for a person entitled to vote in accordance with an expressed authorization to vote as the proxy decides; by a holder acting solely as a nominee, trustee, custodial or other capacity (sic) [ fiduciary capacity ] on behalf of the beneficiary provided the following conditions are met. The beneficiary provides written confirmation to the holder that the beneficiary is not excluded from voting and is not an associate of a person excluded from voting on the resolution. And the holder votes on the resolution in accordance with the directions given by the beneficiary to the holder to vote in that way. I invite all eligible shareholders. Please now cast your vote if you have not already cast them on this item. [Voting]

Shown on the presentation slide are details of the total valid proxies for this item. I'll now move to the next item, item 5, election of Ms. Kate Temby. Kate Temby was appointed by the Board as a director of the company and most of its subsidiary companies on the 1st of February 2021. The Board considered Ms. Temby's skills and experience were complementary to the other Board members'; as well as providing deep experience in areas where the Board has identified that further skills are required, such as investment management. Ms. Temby currently hold roles with Affirmative Investment Management as a partner in a London-based impact fixed-interest investment manager, Conscious Investment Management, Melbourne Grammar School as an investment committee member. Ms. Temby previously had roles at Goldman Sachs as managing director, where she led the Asia Pacific ex Japan asset management institutional business which managed over $40 billion in assets on behalf government and superannuation funds; JBWere & Son as equity research sales in both New York and Melbourne; PricewaterhouseCoopers in Melbourne and Toronto, as global risk management consultant; and Melbourne Girls Grammar school, board member and chair of the marketing committee. Ms. Temby holds a Bachelor of Economics and is a member of the AICD and institute of chartered accountants. Ms. Temby is a member of the group Audit Committee, group Compliance and Risk Management Committee, group Remuneration and Culture Committee and group Nomination Committee; and is Chair of Netwealth Investments Limited Investment Committee. Turning to the resolution. Item 5 is to -- is for shareholders to consider and, if thought fit, to pass the following resolution as an ordinary resolution: that Ms. Kate Temby be elected as a director of Netwealth. Are there any questions on this resolution?

We received no questions today.

Moderator, are there any telephone queries in relation to the resolution?

We -- no telephone questions.

I invite all eligible shareholders now to, please, cast your vote if you have not already voted on this item. [Voting]

Shown on the presentation slide are details of the total valid proxies cast on this item. Item 5 is the final item, so that was the final item. So that was -- concludes the formal business of the meeting. Now I would like time to -- now I would like to take time to address any general questions that have been asked by our shareholders of the Board. Are there any general questions?

There are no general questions.

Thanks, Grant. Moderator, are there any final questions from shareholders on the phone?

Yes. We are showing another question from Mike Robey.

Davyd, how has COVID work from home, the requirements to do that, affected your ability to create new ideas and innovation with the company -- within the company? Some recent studies we have been exposed to have shown that, whilst such working can improve productivity, it risks reducing the flow of new ideas and innovation that often occur when people bump into each other around the water cooler, so are you finding any effects like that? And have you got the intention of requiring some of your more creative people to come in to work?

Yes. That's a good question, Matt -- Mike. I'd like to refer that to Matt, who may give you a more detailed response.

Thanks, Davyd, yet another great question. We've basically been remote working since -- like many people, since March 2020. There's been periods of time between various lockdowns where we've had small numbers of staff going to the office, and clearly we've managed to operate sufficiently. We've had our record year. Obviously the business has grown considerably. And we've put in new -- or close to 100 new people during that time. Having said that, I think everyone is extremely excited and looking forward to getting back to the office, particularly given that we do have a new office that really hasn't been seen by any of our staff, bar a small handful. So in relation to your direct question: Like every other business, we've found ways to innovate and to share ideas. There's been online [ Duraboards ] and ways to move sticky labels around, but the reality is that it is much harder in a virtual environment; very difficult to brainstorm; very difficult to talk in a group more than sort of 3 or 4, to be honest. And so we will be certainly encouraging people, probably from the 24th, 25th of November, when Victoria opens up and masks, hopefully, won't be necessary inside, to come back into the office as quickly as possible. Our current view at the moment is that we want to maintain the best bits, if you like, of working from home, that ability to reconnect with family and to have focused time at home. And we are looking at adopting a hybrid work style in the future with definitely looking to get people into the office for 2 to 3 collaboration days a week; with 1 to 2 days, flexible days, where they can choose if they want to come into the office or do some more focused work at home. So I think it's fair to say that we've got plans in place, but almost inevitably that will change as we do come back into the office and we understand exactly how all these things are going to play out and how we best work in the future but looking forward to getting back to the office and sticking sticky labels on the whiteboard.

Thanks, Matt. And thanks, Mike, for your questions. It's -- certainly in a virtual AGM environment it's nice to know that there really is somebody out there listening, but it's not a great format and we look forward very much to physically meeting our shareholders at future AGMs. So to Mike and the ASA, thank you for your interest and for your questions. So that brings us to the end of the -- Netwealth's 2021 Annual General Meeting, so in a moment, I'll formally close the meeting. If you're intending to vote on the formal business of meeting, you should now finalize and submit your votes, as formal -- as voting will close in 5 minutes time. And as mentioned earlier, the results of voting will be released on the ASX once the votes have been tallied after this meeting. Thank you to all our shareholders for attending the Netwealth AGM today, and I now declare the meeting closed. Thank you.