News Corporation (NWSA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, everybody. My name is Gavin Deane from Deutsche Bank. I'm joined today by Tracey Fellows and David Doctorow. So I'm pleased to say our conversation today will focus on the very strong portfolio of digital real estate assets that are controlled by News Corp. As you all recall, News Corp owns a 61.4% stake in REA Group, which is a leading digital real estate business in Australia and has a very strong presence in Asia. News Corp also owns 80% of Move, the operator of realtor.com here in the U.S. with REA owning the remaining 20%. Tracey is News Corp's President of Global Digital Real Estate, a role that she assumed just over a year ago, having previously served as CEO of REA. Tracey has also served as Move's interim CEO. And David is the CEO of Move, having joined just over a year ago from eBay, where he served as Head of Global Growth, eBay Marketplaces. And Dave also worked at Expedia as Chief Marketing and Strategy Officer. So Tracey, David, welcome to you both.

Thanks very much.

Tracey, if I could start with you, from a macro perspective, how do you think about the TAM for News Corp's real estate business? What scope are you seeing for expansion into adjacencies from the underlying real estate transaction, which has been the core?

Sure. So I'll focus on REALTOR primarily. And so when we first bought REALTOR way back over 6 years ago now, it would be -- we really looked at what was the advertising addressable market. And so that was round numbers like a $10 billion market. But now as we -- as the business has evolved and changed over time, and no doubt we'll talk about that in the coming little while, we think about it much more expansively as we've moved closer to the transaction. So we think about the commission pool, and that's about a $75 billion TAM here in the U.S. We think about the adjacencies that have the closest proximity to the actual transaction itself and the 2 that are the most obvious are the mortgage itself and then also the title. And so mortgage is like $65 billion. Title's around $16 billion. And then there are segments that we're moving into that we weren't as prominent in before, and I'd put new homes in that category. So from that $10 billion, you see how we've expanded very materially on what we see as the opportunity. And frankly, it's why we're so excited about the potential that we see within the portfolio.

And then how do you see REALTOR then in the context of the overall News Corp portfolio, just to give a level set in portfolio?

So certainly, we see digital real estate as being an important part of the growth within the portfolio. And so when we think about REA and News Corp., we've seen how that business has continued to grow. And I think importantly, we see that we're really just getting started on some of the digital innovation and those new adjacencies that we can participate in. So we're very optimistic about the potential to continue to grow. And we've seen that in -- no doubt, we'll talk about that. We've seen that in the first 2 quarters of our financial year, strong growth. And it's a strong macro market for real estate right now, but we also see irrespective of the market headwinds or tailwinds, the potential to continue to grow in this segment is very large.

I'd love to come on to the market as a whole in a moment. But Dave, perhaps we can just play you in for a second. You've been at Move for just over a year. Appreciating that it's been a pretty unusual year for everybody, what were your impressions when you first joined? How do you reflect on those impressions a year later? There has been a phenomenal increase, obviously, in the traffic during the period, and you've announced several key relationships along the way, but interested in your look back.

It has been quite a year, that's for sure, but to wind the clock back, a year ago, when I came into this business from Expedia and then eBay, I was a marketplace person. I was struck by the fact that even after 25 years of the existence of digital real estate, putting yourself in the consumer shoes, it's just too hard. Consumers are left feeling fear. Fear of making mistakes, fear of missing out, it takes time, it's costly to go on this homeownership journey. And from my past experience, I had a belief that if you really listen intently to consumers' pain points, and try to focus on solving them. In the end, everyone that participates in a marketplace benefits. And at year-end, I have more conviction than ever that, that's the way forward, that ultimately trying to listen to the fact that consumers feel that fear and to do what we can to create confidence by giving consumers choice ultimately, choice that's grounded in options and having decision-making control, that is a better way forward. And it is beginning to show up in our results. We're very pleased that, as you mentioned, our traffic is growing. Actually, in the last 3 months, according to comScore, we've grown our traffic more than 20 points faster than Zillow Group. So consumers are showing up on our site in droves relative to the past, and we're really excited about what lies ahead.

And then to talk about those performance drivers for a second. As you say, you performed very well in the recent quarters. What's the -- what do you think the driver of that recent performance is? There's an ethos that you just described, but in practical terms, what do you think is driving it?

Well, just to provide a bit of foundation, we make money in 3 ways today. Firstly, we sell lead subscriptions to agents and brokers. Secondly, we make money on real estate transactions in the form of referral fees that we earn. And then thirdly, we sell ancillary services, such as media services in the lending market and in other markets. Now our revenue grew 28% year-on-year in our fiscal Q2 to a record of $155 million, and this was driven by a few factors. Firstly, lead volume growth. We saw over 30% lead volume growth in the business, reflecting the demand that I was describing earlier. Secondly, we saw higher transaction volumes, and that affected our referral business. And thirdly, we had higher average home prices that also affect the referral fees. All of this is grounded in the fact that agents are showing up and continuing to show strong demand for the products and services that we offer. And like I said before, the results in the end are stimulated by the audience growth that we see. Now not only did we grow 20 points faster than Zillow Group the last 3 quarters -- excuse me, 3 months, according to comScore, we also beat them 20 out of the last 22 months. So there's a trend, and the trend is building.

Wow, that's impressive. That's impressive. So it's not that long ago that you acquired OpCity. That was a big strategic change for Move and clearly has some pretty significant implications for the industry more broadly. Do you want to take us through the rationale for that decision, that specific deal?

Yes. Sure. So I think the first driver of the Move was to improve the consumer experience, building on what David said. And we saw that by acquiring this business, we could get closer to our consumers, but also importantly, help hand hold them as they navigate through the experience. So core within what we acquired, and then they're all part of the REALTOR group, so kind of think of it as us, was some really smart technology that helps say as a consumer, we -- there's a bunch of things we know about you. We use algorithms and machine learning to help match the right agent to you as a consumer based on where you are, what you're looking for, the kind of house. And when we do that, we not just match them in terms of some e-mail introduction. We take the consumer on the phone. And we live transfer them to that specific agent. And then we track through that process to make sure is the consumer getting what they wanted? Is everything working for them? Have they got the right agent that fills their needs? So we follow up and make sure actually this is still working for the consumer. So you're right, it was a very big change for us, a change first in this connection with the consumer, but importantly, we then actually know what happened to that lead and that consumer. So we know if they bought a house. And the monetization is completely different, too. So the monetization no longer is a lead that we've sold to an agent. But now we get paid when the agent gets paid, which is when the transaction happens. The consumer either sells their house or buys a new home. And when they do that, then the consumers got what they want and all the payment happens. It also means because we're there at the time of the transaction that we were able to also access mortgage and title, those 2 adjacencies I spoke about, because we're there at the center, so we know when it's happening, and we can help navigate through that process.

And the referral model, therefore, presents greater opportunities for the overall business. Mortgage and title, are they the core of that? Is there more? Do you see more in the future?

So certainly, we look at mortgage and title because they're at the exact same moment that everything is happening with the transaction, and both of those have to happen in order for the transaction to happen. We absolutely see that there's opportunities beyond that. Obviously, the consumer has to move, they need home insurance if they bought a new home. So there's a range of different services that we see have the potential down the track. But we've prioritized on the 2 that we think have the biggest both pain points for the consumer and are the most important to actually getting them into that new home, which is mortgage and title.

Okay. And you had some partnerships along the way with Rocket. How have they facilitated that process?

David, do you want to talk a little bit about our partnership with Rocket?

Yes. You bet. We have a number of partnerships in the lending arena with Rocket Mortgage, Veterans United and as other lenders. Ultimately, our focus is trying to work together to break down the consumer barriers that would stand in the way theoretically, from a consumer getting that pre-approval that they need. And what we focus on is trying to work with our partners to design the best possible experience that practically ignores the fact that there's 2 different companies participating and creates a really seamless user experience. And when we do that, we find that ultimately, better consumer experience does lead to better economics. And while these partnerships are early and still expanding, we're very, very bullish about the fact that if we provide a better experience, more people will get preapproved. If more people are preapproved, more people will close on the home, and that will lead to referral fees and other revenue for us.

Do you think the shift to the referral model then in relation to the long-term view of the business, could you ever get to a place where the business is entirely referral based?

I don't think we'd want to, because we think an important principle is choice. And that's a choice for consumers, and that's a choice for our customers as well. Some consumers have an agent they're already working with that they have in their network, and that's completely fine. That's someone they've worked with maybe on multiple transactions over the time. So we want to give people -- we want to provide that choice. We also see that there is an opportunity to continue to monetize leads through the different areas of the country, and we continue to evolve the sophistication of those products and how we're improving both the customer value, but also the consumer experience within them. Today, we have this concept of there are some areas of the country that are pure referral. We think about them as pure markets. That's has been a super useful way to both own that entire experience, but also see the economics that come with that and be able to compare that with the more hybrid or mixed environment that we have. So I think we'll continue to refine that, candidly, both products, and we may see agents move from one to the other. But I don't -- I think it's less likely that we'll have purely all of one model.

And does that also mean that you would not take any particular market to being a referral-only market? There's obviously been some stratification of markets in terms of where Zillow has gone in relation to -- in relation to their iBuyer model, for example.

So we do have markets that are referral-only markets, yes. But that's very different to an iBuyer market. Sure we'll get on to iBuyers. But no, we do have some markets that are pure referral. But I think we see an opportunity for coexistence across many parts of the country.

Taking a step back then for a second. A minute ago, Dave, you mentioned that the state of the overall housing market obviously had an impact on the size of transactions, the value of the transactions and, therefore, the fees that come through to you. What's your current view of the state of the housing market? Obviously, there's been a bit of a polarization between some urban centers and others. But if you look across the markets that you serve, how do you see it now? And what's the prospect for the next sort of 12 months?

It's an outstanding time to be in real estate. The market is seeing tremendous structural and cyclical tailwinds. Structurally, we're seeing geographic shifts. You mentioned de-urbanization, but we'd also call out the permanent shift to remote work for many that is likely to ensue post-pandemic. So geographic shifts. We see demographic shifts with millennials becoming first-time homebuyers and upgrading. We see technological shifts that were hastened by the pandemic, certainly, the shift to virtual, virtual tours, virtual showings, digital closings, all taking place at new levels, and we think very unlikely to go back. We furthermore are seeing historically low interest rates and policy support, all of which are yielding historically high demand. And notwithstanding the fact that supply is down year-on-year, we're continuing to see really, really strong home closes. And certainly, that's what we're baking into our expectations going forward.

I mean I think it's fair to say housing bounced back faster than any of us thought really when the pandemic hit in the U.S. And when we first saw the traffic increases, there was a sense at a certain point because people are home and locked up. But actually, the traffic, the audience increases were matched by leads and transactions. So people were home and utilizing all the tools that David is talking about to be able to browse houses remotely without seeing them. We've been very surprised at the resilience of the housing market really.

And do you see any difference on a regional basis? And does that play in any way into your business?

Yes. No. In fact, it's astounding how similar it is. So in every -- in the different countries we're in, and I'll use just 3 quite different ones, Australia, India and the U.S. When those markets go into some kind of a shutdown, lockdown, whatever words you want to use, you see audience immediately fall for the first short period, and then it actually rebounds to all-time highs. Both REA, our business in India, and realtor.com have had all-time audience highs post the immediate lockdown. And that's followed by people actually transacting, submitting leads and the activity continuing. It's quite -- it's -- that is completely similar across all markets, interestingly enough.

It raises another interesting question, given what people are going through in terms of where they live at the moment and how they live. But rentals has been a successful part of the model at REA for some time, albeit in a different monetization kind of model. Do you think that, that part of the market could also be a priority in the future for REALTOR?

I mean we are in rental today. We offer rental services. And quite recently, we kind of extended how we're operating. We acquired a company called Avail, and that's to deal with the do-it-yourself landlord. And the -- that represents 75% of the single-family home rental stock. So it's a huge part of the market. And arguably, one that's been pretty poorly served, frankly, by the tools that have been available to them. So what Avail does is provide tools for those landlords, but also for the tenants of those landlords. We think that's a great opportunity, both because of the audience that we have, but also those homeowners, who are investors, to be able to target them within the site and to be able to offer those services. So we do see that rental is an important part of the consumer property journey. We know it's also a kind of launch pad for first-time homebuyers. So obviously, we work a lot with first-time homebuyers. They are a significant part of our referral business, for example. And so we know that most first-time homebuyers rented first. And so how we help them navigate. You're renting now. Actually, maybe you could afford to buy, how do we help make that less scary for them and hand hold them through some of those processes, for sure, we do that. We're -- that is why we have engaged in rental, and we see there's more we can do to help those first-time homebuyers kind of make that transition and make it a little smoother for them.

Excellent. Excellent. I touched on it in that prior question, but the differences or some of the differences that you have in relation to the model from REA or for that matter Zillow or a Rightmove in the U.K. Because your monetization model is different, I guess, it creates slightly different incremental opportunities for you. How do you characterize those relative to if you've been operating under, say, the REA model?

Yes. So I mean, you're right, they're different models. And REA and many around the globe are whether it's subscription or pay for advertising kind of models. And REA, a big driver of the growth of that business historically has been advertising models that have a depth concept, so prominence on the site and greater way to present the property. And here in the U.S., we have the combination of subscription leads, as David said, but referral. And the referral model is what is significantly different to some of those other markets because the ability to take a portion of the transaction to address those adjacencies, but also the incredibly rich data and information you get as a result of that. Anybody who has a pay-for-advertising model, they kind of drool at the thought that you're actually going to know, okay, what the consumer pays, when did they bought, who sold it, because the data is rich for both the customer side, which customer sold which houses exactly at what price, how and when, how long did it take as well as being able to have that lifetime value with the consumer. And there are other ways that REA uses smarts of how they get to that same lifetime consumer, but we are kind of at that initial point and in the driver seat of being able to do that. And I think we're really just begun to scratch the surface of how we can leverage that information and really personalize and interesting way for consumers, but also in value-additive ways for our customers.

Interesting. I think when you, as an organization, bought Move initially, the thesis was partially that the expertise from REA would contribute to, and hence, the 20% shareholding would contribute to the development of REALTOR over time. It feels like you've almost gotten to a point where you can do some the other way or perhaps you have been for some time.

Yes. No, I think there's absolutely both way opportunities. And I think you're right, that absolutely was the thesis, and it is very true, particularly on the consumer experience side. Because how consumers look for property is incredibly similar. And so the way that we're looking at consumer segmentation, what are the ways you help nudge a consumer through their experience, what are the things that matter to consumers, what are the ways they behave, that's incredibly similar. Downstream, how you monetize that is quite different between the 2. And we have seen a particularly since I've been in the role, so I've had the connection between both, the acceleration of that sharing from product to design. And just on an ongoing -- everything from how to think about data, marketing, what content resonates. So we've really upped the ante on some of that, and we'll continue to do so.

Great. Great. So we thought we'd get there, iBuyer. Zillow seems to have gone all in, be it written about in blogs, they're obviously presenting as well, so they can give their own view later on. It's a model, obviously, that, to an extent disenfranchises the agents. Is it something that you'd ever be interested in doing? And is there a way, given that it seems to be taking off, is it something that you can participate indirectly, if you don't want to participate directly?

So we don't want to be an iBuyer. I'll say that one more time. We don't want to be an iBuyer. We absolutely don't want to disenfranchise our customers, but also from this consumer-first proposition that we come at everything. And so if I take a step back, David spoke about it before, buying and selling a house is still complex. And the extent to which it hasn't reduced in complexity is kind of -- in spite of so much innovation and digitization. So we think there's a really important role when someone is looking to sell their house. The consumers are very -- have an ability to see what are the options that are in front of them. And then one of the things that, that starts with is, how do they think about the value of their home, which for many people is their biggest financial asset. And so what we've done in that is we have given people 3 different valuations from all from professional sources that let them be as informed as possible about what is their home value. That's a very different even starting proposition to our competitor, who said actually, that valuation that we've created is now our offer for you all. I'm not sure those 2 things are completely independent. And then we want to walk a consumer through to say, okay, do you -- given what's important to you, here are the merits of having an agent, and here are the different options that you have in front of you to iBuyer. Because I think a consumer doesn't want to understand what they're trading off. Sometimes, speed is important. And so iBuying can be a great option. But also when you look at iBuyers, there's multiple iBuyers today. There's not just one. And this is your most important financial asset. So you want to understand, am I getting the best value for my home that I can get, if speed is the most important thing to me right now. And then what we're seeing is in the way this category is opened up that not only are people in some markets and not in others, but there's a whole bunch of new financial engineering that's coming to bear. Here's a floor price. Here's a -- we sell it for you and you can live in it until you buy your new one. Here's we'll forward you the cash for the new house you have even before you sell. There's all kinds of new innovations from a range of different players in the ecosystem. And we think we have a great opportunity to help show those to consumers in a clear way, help them be informed and confident to make the best decision for them. But they have that choice. They're not pushed down one path. Here's our answer, here's what we think your house is worth, because we've told you that's the value. There you go. We think there's -- consumers are smarter than that, and they deserve better than that.

That makes lots of sense to me as a consumer. I guess, Zillow have made some interesting shifts in the strategy, hiring their own agents, turning estimates into a live offer. They are, obviously, in a way, the #1 player in the market. How does that affect you as they make these shifts when it comes to your decisions going forward, you -- the business strategy decisions that you have to make?

Gavin, we're playing our own game. And at the same time, it's clear to say that the points of difference between us and Zillow are greater than they've ever been. While they are building a closed ecosystem to push their own products, to cut out agents and brokers and to buy low and sell high, we are trying to build an open ecosystem, one grounded in choice that -- because we believe that when we provide consumers with that choice, they'll feel more confident. They feel more confident, they're going to want to do business with us. Not only that, we're trying to do business deeply in partnership with others, realtors and agents, and others in other industries, who are the best of breed. And we believe that when we bring together that type of partnership model that we can bring a more innovative experience to boot. So again, I'll repeat the points of difference greater than ever, and we feel very strongly that the course that we're on will succeed over the test of time.

Tracey, you mentioned that there's not only one source of innovation in the market. There's obviously competition out there from the likes of Redfin, CoStar. How do you feel about your competitive position in the market? And one thing you have that's very different is the NAR, the relationship that you have with the NAR. How does that play for you in the market as presumably an asset and therefore a competitive advantage?

Yes, sure. So I might just touch on how we feel about the position, and then let David take a little more about the NAR relationship to see as kind of been managing so much of that partnership, especially in the last 12 months. I mean, this is a highly competitive space. But what we see, and there are new entrants coming all the time. But building a strong trusted consumer brand, it takes time, and Dave has just shown you how much we've accelerated our growth in the consumer -- in our consumer audience. So we feel very good about our position with an audience with the trusted brand that they can rely on as an independent source for information. And I think our opportunities of how we don't take advantage of that trust but are able to continue to add value to those consumers and therefore create value opportunities with our customers has never been greater. So as a very strong #2 and narrowing the gap, we feel pretty good about how we're placed given the points of difference that we're seeing between how we're going to market and how are our competitors. David, do you want to touch on maybe anything else in some of the NAR relationship, particularly?

Sure. I'll just reinforce that we're attempting to create the best possible consumer experience in partnership with realtors. And there are -- certainly, we get great feedback, both informally, certainly from the NAR, but also many of our members, whom we survey tell us that the services we provide are critical to their success. As one example to that, 7 out of 10 customers of ours in the referral model that we partner with tell us that we're absolutely critical to their business. So the feedback speaks for itself, and the partnership is, from our view, the best it's been in quite a long time, and we're investing a lot to continue to expand the relationship.

A part of that, one can only imagine is investment in innovation, both for the consumers and for the realtors. There's been record revenue. You've seen record revenue yourselves. There's been record traffic on the site. How do you keep that record of innovation fresh? How do you think about new offerings that help keep the momentum, the market, of course, may shift as we end up coming out of shelter-in-place lockdown, all the different phrases that we have for it. Any -- do you see any shifts that come from that? But the innovation that's been the core of the success. How do you keep that running?

Yes. So as I said early on, I came to this role with the belief system from my past that many of my colleagues already shared, which is that you have to listen intently to consumers and understand the pain points that they feel. And I'll emphasize again, the fear that people feel, we hear about it in the stories and see it in the data all the time. And so we are focusing our innovation, our own innovation and bringing partners in to help bring their innovation together to create ultimately confidence in consumers that they're getting options and they're getting decision-making control. Those options are going to be the most innovative options that are out there. And I'll give you a few examples. Firstly, in the last while, we had a release of new flood information, where we brought together 2 different sources of flood information to make sure that consumers were well informed about flood risks before they bought or sold. Another example Tracey talked about is our seller marketplace. We're not -- we didn't try to provide only one option. We're bringing listing agents together with iBuying and iFinancing alternatives. We did partnerships with Opendoor, with Knock, with EasyKnock, to name a few. Thirdly, we talked about lending, where we've partnered with Rocket Mortgage and Veterans United. We also recently announced a partnership with Qualia in the title arena. We've got, in our pure referral markets, cash back and Google Smart Home Rewards partnerships that we're bringing together that help encourage people to close. These are examples. I could keep going. But the emphasis I'll underscore is that we will never stop listening deeply to consumers, because we believe when we solve real consumer problems and we create confidence in doing so, that that's the way forward. And that way we'll really stand out over the test of time.

And Dave, you talked about fear, what do you think is the counterpoint to that? What is it that they're most afraid of? Is it lack of knowledge, lack of power? Is it not trusting their realtor? What's in there?

In a way, I want to make it personal. I bet we've all probably or many of us have been there with -- in that moment where we were buying our first home. And I know for myself, I was -- I remember how many nights I didn't sleep thinking about insolvency that was inevitably going to happen. But look, to be certain, our research tells us it's 2 major fears. It's the fear of making a mistake, and that has many aspects to it because it's a complicated process, and it's expensive. And two, it's the fear of missing out. And so people -- did I see everything that's relevant to me, how do I narrow it down? How do I know when I've seen that house for me? And then add to it, it's time-consuming to really sort it out to get to the right answer in the end. So it's that fear and the study of that fear and it's multiple different angles, you could say we'll relentlessly learn about this fear to try to make it easier. But to be simple about it, it is about confidence. And we think that in the end, our job is to create confidence, not to do it alone, to do it together with the people that we do business with, with realtors, with agents, with the other partners I mentioned. And this is very, very different, very different than other players in the industry, who are pushing one option. You don't have to look anywhere else, just take what we have, trust us. It can be harder to do over time with all the news we're seeing out there.

So that consumer choice and that confidence that comes from that style of open model, as you say, there is some contrast in that. In terms of the way you invest vis-a-vis the consumer, I think I follow, is there more that you need to do on the platform side? Is there more technologically that needs to be done by way of enhancement?

Absolutely, yes. We're a technology business at the core. So we will seek to forever more get better data so that we can create those types of personalized choices for consumers. And given the scale at which we operate, we -- as Tracey mentioned, we will use AI -- we already use AI quite a bit. We'll continue to use AI to make real-time ad scale decisions that are grounded in what's best for consumers. And all of that is enabled by having excellent technology platforms and products that sit on those platforms. We feel quite good about the state of play right now, where we put a lot of money over many years into our core platforms. Have been through in the past, replatforming efforts that are really -- we see have yielded very, very well. And the pace of innovation as a result, these days has really picked up because our engineering is being pointed at new feature development, new creation. And you can sense it, I hope, in the -- just in the last months, all that I just ran through a couple of minutes ago has happened. And you'll see the pace continued to pick up. And that's grounded ultimately in great technology.

And along the way, of course, you've actually sold out of a product that you had, software as a service product, Top Producer, which is I understood it served the REALTOR. Correct me if I'm wrong about that. What was the rationale behind not following down that path and concentrating in the way that you have?

Yes. In the end, Top Producer was not core to our strategy. Although certainly, it is about helping the REALTOR. We were focused on trying to create the best possible experiences grounded, like I've said a few times, grounded in choice. And in the end, being in the software CRM business, just really in the end, wasn't core to our mission at this time. I will note that selling this business was actually revenue growth enhancing for us. So in addition to it being non-core, it also, we feel happy with the position we're in post that divestiture.

Understood. Understood. Okay. We've got only about 4 or 5 minutes to go. In wrapping up, maybe Dave, I'll start with you. But how do you see REALTOR developing sort of the next 3 to 5 years? And then, Tracey, I want you to try and frame that in the context of News Corp as well?

Sure.

Sure. I'll lead in. First of all, I think the momentum that we're experiencing now, it should be quite obvious. We mentioned our traffic results speak for themselves. We've exceeded Zillow Group's traffic 20 of 22 months and by more than 20 points the last 3 months. We've also beat them in the last quarter on revenue. If you take into account their recent accounting adjustment for their -- and I should clarify, we beat that -- their IMT segment revenue growth in the real estate revenues that we produce. So the momentum is palatable and that momentum will continue to lead to more innovation. We are continuing to invest aggressively. We expect to spend $40 million on additional brand marketing and product investment over the back fiscal half and that investment is ultimately happening, because of the belief we have that we can continue to drive much more growth. Growth that is grounded in the large addressable markets that Tracey described. Just to orient, 5% of the real estate market in the end would be approximately a $2 billion business. So we think we have a long way to go over the next 3 to 5 years to yield the growth potential that's right in front of us. Growth in core real estate, growth in attaching adjacent services, and growth in -- by entering new markets. So we're incredibly excited about the possibilities. The leadership team is very, very inspired and fired up, and we look forward to telling you this story as it unfolds.

It sounds like you found the right job a year ago, Dave?

What a year it's been.

Tracey, how do you see it in the context of the overall portfolio?

Yes. I mean we're very bold on the category. I mean our REA has continued to grow beyond depth advertising into financial services and into data. And the opportunities that we see here in the U.S. are very, very similarly -- once you start with the advertising and the lead-based model, and then you move beyond to looking more broadly in the ecosystem, the potential is almost endless. And the list of ways we can add value to consumers and by doing that also add value to the customers are -- it's a big list. And so as we look at the category, we've never been happier that we're in the category. We're very optimistic about continued trajectory of REALTOR specifically. And frankly, we're just scratching the surface.

Excellent. Well, look, thank you both very much for your time. I would hope to welcome you this time next year in sunny Florida. [Technical Difficulty] possible this year as some of your colleagues historically because you've been very good to us in terms of long-standing attendance at our conference. As I know some of your colleagues have enjoyed the weather and some good company in Florida. So we'd love to see you next year and thank you again for joining us.

Thank you very much. Over to Florida. Take care.

Thank you.