Ânima Holding S.A. (ANIM3) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Earnings Results webinar, of the Fourth Quarter 2024. I am [Indiscernible], if you don't know me IR from Anima and with me, we have Paula Harraca, CEO; Atila, our CFO, and Guilherme Soarez, CEO from Inspirali. This presentation is being recorded, and it will be available today on our IR website, where all the other materials related to this earnings results call are available. At the end of the presentation, we'll have a Q&A session. If you want to ask a question, raise your hand. Paula, the floor is yours.

Thank you, [ Cariena ]. Good morning, everyone. I'm very happy to be here at this moment, and I want to thank you all for your attendance. My first word is thank you. Thank each one of the educators from Anima that genuinely believe in what we do, transforming lives through quality education. And they are thousands of educators, those life that deposit in the transforming proposal of our education that generate the results we're going to share with you today. I thank our Board of Directors that follows closely our strategies. And I thank everyone in our executive team that along with me who lead this company. And today, I represent each one of them in this presentation of results. Initially, I would like to start by sharing what kind of history or background are these numbers showing. We're showing some milestones, some highlights and challenges that have been overcome over the 2024 fiscal year. Looking at our management, we finally had -- that was a topic that was questioned, the integration that's mission accomplished for integration, integrated system Anima, Laureate with a single strategy with a single team with systems totally integrated. So this is a chapter finalized, delivered during the fiscal year, once in the second semester, we opened a new stage of the company, and I am called to lead it. And we made important changes to the Executive Committee, reducing 2 hierarchy levels in a leaner structure, and clearly it reflects the growth avenues of the company for this third wave that we call a new sustainable growth cycle. We have several things to highlight. I'd like to draw your attention to the improvements that have been quite significant accomplished in over 2024. Our students experience that, of course, the result speaks for itself, 1.1 to over 4.4 in the live evaluations, our proprietary platform, the student experience on Android and Apple, you can follow that. That has been the result of great effort of many people in the IT business, attention nice our service has been significantly improved and our solutions portfolio, Rodrigo says, we moved from concert to -- with ASR fixing to concert as an orchestra. So we take a new leap and have a new avenues of growth focusing and making it happening. Of course, academic is very important, has always been a dynamic from the standpoint of excellence, delivery, valuing starting with our professors, teachers that is more academically coherent with innovations, with AI, several things that are being implemented and they have the recognition as the OAB recommends CO in law. That's an important flagship for Anima and is very strong. MILTON CAMPOS, there are together UNIFACS and UNICURITIBA some highlights. The most important at this time of the company is talk about the strengthening of our brands, and it starts with this power to the front to the edge. So data-based edges. This has generated new lives. It's bringing the strategy of differentiation with great power. We're going to talk a bit about this later. So without further ado, in this general scenario of Anima, some highlights of the year, again, thanking and congratulating each and every one behind this effort. I'd like to call Guilherme to share some risistrortive and highlights of Anima. Please, Guilherme and Inspirali.

Thank you, everyone, and good morning. Thank you for being here, honoring us and sharing our project with us. It's important to look back at 2024 for Inspirali. It's a year in which we had strong evolution and our governance, our controls, our management. We also went through a reorganization of our team now that our schools are increasingly more mature, and this brings a lot of clear fruits in the results of the fourth quarter 2024, a year in which we also had the arrival of Medico Residente is medical with 3 doctors with Bruno [indiscernible] from [indiscernible] who incorporate our portfolio of continuous education or lifelong education, very important for -- which is preparation for residency. So we've been working hard, not for integration, but for a connection so that we can boost the talent and their ability. So 2024 has been incredible for Inspirali, despite the challenges faced in lifelong learning with the floods in Porto Alegre, which is our headquarters, also with the struggle to offset and the graduate unproportional graduation in midyear, we came to this peak in the legacy some classes that graduated after 6 years from the beginning of the year. So we conclude the year with a lot of assurance and great opportunities ahead. So I turn back to you. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Guilherme. Speaking of numbers, you're seeing the company's results. We want to highlight this word that speaks for delivery. It's solid, robust. 2024 was the year in which our quality revenue strategy has been proven very successful, some evidence of this to show this evolution, the growth in our ticket core digital and medicine because to us, education has no price has value. These numbers you see behind them, we have a commercial positioning. This you will stopping to talk about discount valuation, active listening to students, we have understanding the whole strategic repositioning that generates these results that allowed us to get to over BRL 1 billion of EBITDA with quality revenue generating solid EBITDA with robust cash generation, reverting a loss that in 2023 in the previous fiscal year was above BRL 46 million delivery, BRL 187 million net income, a company that is able to expand 12 consecutive terms generating robust cash in an adverse scenario, able to keep its leverage the 2.8, significant improvement regarding previous years of 325, important exercise of liability management conducted by our financial team acted in all our team and with the proposal of the management, which will be to -- take to the general meeting BRL 20 million dividends to be distributed. So that's 25% of net accounting profit distribution. So great message of us, quality revenue, delivering profitability that is robust, sound cash generation and return to shareholders, which is an important agenda to us. Atila, I'd like to call you to my copilot so that you can go into details regarding our financial numbers.

Thank you very much, Paula. It's a pleasure to be with all of you. I'd like to thank by -- start by thanking our over 15,000 educators behind these numbers. They are code, objective, but they are delivered with a lot of dedication, commitment, competence of all our teams. So I'm here to make a point about thanking each and every one of you for these numbers. We're very happy to close the year, which has been very important to us. They are solid and sound results. We were able to grow ticket above inflation in the Core segment. Important to highlight Q4 presents a lower indicator. It's natural for Q4 for this to happen. If you look at the previous quarters, we always have this phenomenon. We understand that what is important to stress is that over the year, we were able to deliver this 5.4% ticket increase, which is quality revenue. Late in the year, we have negotiation policies to make students no longer delinquent. So we have a sound growth cycle, and we have this phenomenon, which is practically totally natural. Important on the side, we see another accomplishment of quality revenue, which is a reduction of dropout rate and the increase in the remaining students. So it's a result of our quality, the willingness of our students to stay and the improvement of our services and the base of better quality. So that keeps or contributes to retention. So this aligned to our discipline of cost management, efficiency, a concern that is totally core to every cent that this company, this has led us to improve margins in the Core segment. So we gained margin over the year, and this margin gain though there was a drop in revenue, we managed to keep the results totally consistent year-after-year. So to us, the Core segment in 2024 has shown great features, resilience, efficiency and quality in the student base. This lead us to 2025 in a more -- much more healthy way, much more confident. On the digital learning, we see the philosophy of quality revenue delivering results. We see significant growth in the ticket, important reduction in the dropout rates. And more than that, we see great growth in the operating result deriving from leverage. Revenue growth. It delivers very good results in terms of operating leverage and also the same discipline of efficiency, cost management and care with expenses that we have in core. We also have in digital, and this led to the significant numbers in the results. They are important segments that in 2024 have shown great soundness, have shown ability to face critical moments and makes the company to be solid to start 2025 even more confident. Guilherme, I'd like to ask you to talk a bit about Inspirali.

Thank you, Atila. As we have brought to you 2024 has been a very important year for Inspirali. You see the results here. Our positioning of quality, our venues show this resilience, both in terms of the ability of attracting the best students, but also in the ability of keeping our student base and also of transferring inflation rate with the repositioned ticket, I believe that after 4 years after the arrival of the Laureate schools, we have a very well-positioned portfolio in terms of pricing. And those numbers confirm this resilience of Inspirali's business. I'd like to highlight some points such as the recovery over the second semester of lifelong learning, very important with the arrival of medical residency, very preliminary numbers in this quarter. They arrived late November. So the data here is basically for only 1-month, but it shows the potential of our together being able to turn Inspirali into the choice for doctors to continue to develop, to study and to keep being relevant in their careers. Looking ahead, what do we have ahead? Recently, we had the publication of the first results of the process of Mais Medicos 3, Inspirali Anima took part, we had submitted 23 proposals on the 14th. We had another step of the proceedings in the preliminary analysis allowed the participants to appeal on their preliminary results. With that, we raised our accreditation from 22 to 23 proposals that are in this proceeding, even though in the last preliminary analysis, the ministry reduced the number of 95 possible courses to 75, and we continue with our 23 proposals taking part and confident that we are very competitive in a relevant number of those 23 proposals. So we look ahead into the future with confidence that Inspirali will continue to have a relevant role in medical education, always to the service of our purpose, which is to inspire love for life. We are in 2025 with total focus on our challenges, the improvement of our quality in the learning of the best students in lifelong learning, and we move on, on our project. Atila, I turn back to you.

Thank you, Guilherme. All those business segments delivered very sound results. You can see that we have been able to grow our EBITDA by 17.5% year-over-year, significant growth. I think it's important to stress if we go back a year, this number was BRL 700-some million in a 2-year period. This is a very significant growth result of the consistency of business and our discipline and care with costs and expenses. We can also see, I think it's important to highlight, you heard me talking about, well, 2 calls ago that we had changed our league. We would change our league because we would change comparative -- more frail comparative periods with stronger ones. Even changing the league, we said that we believe in the possibility of still winning the game, and we have. We've managed to expand 3% points of margin in the second semester, very important accomplishment, and we have positive results in all items. We have, well, PDA or delinquency. So as a result of our quality education, our concern regarding students aware of our payment accountability from the start. So we seek students that seek a better-quality school at a higher price. Consequently, they are more compromised or committed actually to their studies with less delinquency or default. This chapter of default, we have absolutely coverage levels year-over-year, our accounts receivable evolved a year from the BRL 70 million in net income, significantly in the private loan portfolio. And we have most of this portfolio with credit risk shared with [indiscernible]. And to us, this is a very important accomplishment. And we see health quality in our portfolio of receivables and quality in our student portfolio, and this leads to less delinquency as well. I'd like to mention our Botafogo chart. Botafogo is following our call. So our sincere thanks to Botafogo. We keep on working to keep it upwards. So I'd like to make special thanks to our dear Marina Gelman, who's also following us. Marina, we have shared for many, many years this place here. It's been a great reason for great pride to work with you, and it's great to have you on the Board, actually demanding our results so that Botafogo chart is increasingly trending upwards, another word of thanks. And I'd like to welcome [ Catarina ] well, actually having her first call -- earning results call with Anima Holding. So these results show the consistency of our work, 12 quarters in a row with margin expansion. 12 quarters is a lot. We've managed to grow EBITDA year-over-year, quarter-over-quarter. And this to us is extremely important. The name of the game is consistency. This chart to us shows this consistency in delivering results. This consistency is followed by great discipline in CapEx management, our care with the capital structure, total diligence being shared that every real invested is the real invested with great discretion and assertiveness. We keep our investments consistent in technology. We have improved the delivery and reduced CapEx because I make a point about stressing that our IT team has done a beautiful job led by Bruno and Henrique, able to do more with less money. So this is the showing, and this is what is seen on those bar charts on all those bars, everyone that is able to deliver this reduced CapEx with more benefits to students. So we have been able to improve our efficiency. In the capital structure, we have done very important work over 2024. It also marks an important change in the debt of Anima. We moved -- reduced our spread from 2.4 to 1.7 later year, 70 points that will help us absorb part of the impact of SELIC that starts showing effects late in the year. This to us is a reason -- a result of great discipline of pressuring our decision with more discipline. We are very conscious and doing our job. We have been able to -- over this year to reduce financial costs and prepare for a monetary tightening period. All this work carried out over the year led us to have, in addition to reducing the cost of the debt to greatly improve its maturation profile. We have almost 360 days a year, the profile of the debt. We have no maturity for '25 and '26, a very low one, considering our ability to have liquidity and that gives the company soundness. It's totally solid in its fundamentals of results, growth and also in terms of its cash position and balance sheet positioning. Consequently, its liquidity. With all this work carried out. Altogether, we managed to get cash generation after interest payments of BRL 260 million, which has been possible, thanks to all this work that allowed us to pay out dividends and make investments. It's important to stress, as Guilherme well highlighted in the last quarter of the year, we had the accomplishment of bringing to the ecosystem people from medical residency incorporating continuous medical education of Inspirali in a journey that is very promising, a growth avenue that is very important to our business that has brought to our indebtedness in the fourth quarter, an impact of BRL 51 million that led to -- that were accounted for in December. Having said all of that, we managed to close here well, a slide before with great balance. So it's a year in which we always question, well, what about capital structure? We've always said our word is our rule of thumb is balanced. We see reduction in leverage, investment in the future and return to shareholders. I turn back to you, Paula.

Thank you, Atila. Before moving into the final remarks, I'd like to say the same word I said in the beginning, our gratitude. Thank Marina. Botafogo sent me a message this morning, right, Botafogo. I'd like to thank 2 special persons. First, Marcelo, we had brought in the previous earnings results call is transition period. This passing on the baton that has been so well conducted by him in such a generous and dedicated way. And I'd like to thank you, Marcelo, because those results are also part of your management, your leadership. So thank you very much to you. And Ricardo Cancado as well. Thank you very much who's been very important in these results. And all this trajectory also sent me a message to me this morning. Well, both of you, Marcelo and the Board, Ricardo without a mission. So it is very beautiful to see this continuity, this legacy -- I mean, to us, Atila, we have the responsibility of giving continuity to this successful story. Thank you, Marcelo, Ricardo, Marina. And you said something, Atila, the name of the game is consistency. I would add to that. In addition to consistency is coherence. This is how we are strengthening the trust with each one of the stakeholders that believe in our value proposal from students who are the first, for whom we are all here. without them, we wouldn't be here, educators, male and female who dedicate their lives to the vocation of educating better citizens for Brazil, you, investors, shareholders who believe in our ability to deliver what we propose to deliver and to everyone that is part of our ecosystem. This trust that we are strengthening is the result of our walking the talk. This is the greatest commitment, coherence, delivery of value to all audiences that have this trust in us. And this is summarized by a word commitment. We are totally committed to our strategy. We present to you in the Investor Day in November, we're totally focused in carrying it out, totally determined, aware and conscious of the challenges of the very carefully, as Atila said, but totally committed and very dedicated to everything that depends on us. So we're very much focused on student experience. This is vital to us. Anima as a learning organization, full time listening to students, the satisfaction in this NPS complaints, opportunities for improvement, everything and our quality is a great competitive differential. We're very confident with the traction. We are growing on this cycle, both in attraction, permanent, retention, our ticket. We're consistent with our quality education and strategy. Inspirali, Guilherme presented very well. It's very well positioned for this growth opportunity with the Mais Medicos #3 and pay attention, disciplined, conscious that the use of our resources, optimization of our resources will enable us to do more with less, as Atila mentioned, technology led by Bruno, we're going to do with less and better. It will be better continue being a profitable company with quality revenue generating EBITDA, cash generation and return to shareholders. Without further ado, I'd like to thank you. Well, 10:31, extremely punctual in our timing. I'm going to turn back to you for the Q&A session, please.

Thank you, Paula. So we're going to start our Q&A session, reminding you that if you wish to ask a question, just use the feature raise hand. The first question is from Luca Marchesini from Itau BBA.

We have actually two. The first is regarding capital allocation. You mentioned the highlights. 2024 was dividend payment and perhaps ahead could you share capital allocation, leverage of the company, if you will have a similar level of dividends similar in 2025 you have [indiscernible]. And second is regarding Inspirali, you mentioned Mais Medicos. If you could share your expectation regarding the Mais Medicos seats, and the competitive environment for medicine, thinking about Mais Medicos and the growth while certain audiences, this will be greatly helpful.

Well, I will answer part of it, Paula, and then you complement. Well, we have proposed to have the dividends in the year according to the policy of our bylaws, 25% of net income. We have minimum compulsory or monetary dividend. This is what is being proposed. So BRL 85 million, removing 5% of [Indiscernible] multiplied by 25%. We get to the BRL 20 million as simple as that. This is the current policy, and this is what the company has proposed that the management has proposed for this fiscal year. So this is what we have in terms of dividends for this fiscal year as simple as that. Guilherme, would you like to take the Inspirali part.

Sure. Thank you for the question. We have the Mais Medicos problem that I think. It resulted in a reduction of a potential 95 courses to 75 courses. If all of them actually happens, there are scenarios in which not all of them are going to have approved courses, this leads to an increase of 4,500 additional seats in the market, it represents a growth of a bit less than 10%. However, as we have seen in the Mais Medicos [indiscernible] and Mais Medicos [indiscernible] public notice. The implementation of those courses happens over a longer period of time, considering or having started the [indiscernible] course in August 2024. Practically 6 years after the end of the tender of the public notice, we don't expect to have a national impact of this Mais Medicos tender. However, locally, we may have in some regions some impact that will be just local. However, our project aims at being differentiated by its quality, we are very confident on the location of our schools, the tradition of the brands that we have. So we continue working to its -- our positioning regarding or actually promoting quality education to those students, and we believe this will enable us to keep our current positioning.

The next question is from Flavio Yoshida from Bank of America.

I have two on my side. The first is regarding PDA. We have seen that PDA, especially in this learning we choose a lot as percentage of revenue fourth quarter last year compared to the previous year 2024 full year compared to 2023. I'd like to understand what we should expect from now on. What was the rationale of this reduction in the provision for doubtful accounts PDA? And the second question is regarding intake. Well, we have to ask this question of course. And what kind of information can you share with us regarding what you see on the intake cycle for this year?

Paula, I'll start talking about PDA intake, and then I'll turn it over to you.

Okay.

Well, thank you. Well, PDA is a reflection of our strategic choices, both on digital and core. We have been choosing students that are willing to pay higher prices. Students that are willing to pay higher prices are more committed to more functions of their academic challenges, both of the passing the test exams and paying tuition fees. With that, we've seen an improvement in our delinquency levels. We have a share of delinquent students better smaller than we had before. This is a reflection not [ choices ] -- this is translated into a smaller PDA. And our results statement, you see smaller. If you take the effect of loads that [indiscernible] and most of the risk is shared. So the PDA is smaller taking this mix effect, the coverage has actually improved normal receivables has improved slightly. If you look at the improvement, there's been an improvement in the aging of the portfolio. This is a reflection of choices. A surprise everybody sees, you can see in our results and a loss of volume, but we have merit, so less dropout rates and better PDA, those are better. Well, this is a benefit that we see in the eye in a formula. So we are very comfortable. We understand that the portfolio is increasingly better, healthier and we see that very optimistically regarding future. Okay. In terms of intake. So we have an impact on the eye of the formula. So this is negative. So the queue for 2025 the variable that is within our strategy as Paula said. Revenue, sustainable growth once if fixed the house in the P and the IR main challenge is the queue in the formula. And queue, we see that in blue, right. Paula, I turn it over to you.

Thank you, Flavio, Atila. Strategy stems from this premise of inverting the trajectory. So we are already doing that, looking at this cycle of attracting and retention. We resumed our growth strategy, what we always try to do, of course without magic. The silver bullet, it doesn't -- they don't exist. So strategy, dedicated look to every brand. We are growing in our traction in our retention without letting go of the ticket, much on the contrary growing and making this -- all these items of the formula is quality revenue keeps on growing. I would tell you I don't like euphoria extremes. I am excited to see the cycle of attraction and retention that is being done in a very different way, and the results will be a consequence of it.

The next question is from Lucas Nagano from Morgan Stanley.

Well, our questions there a bit follow-up of those that came before based on core revenue. We talked about intake, so trying to separate an items. They grow, ticketing, improving, dropout. So you have an opposite flow that is inertia on the student base. So do you see a potential growth in 2025. Do you think -- can you set this effect on the core? Second is on leverage. How do you view this indicator? Do you see a trend of organic deleverage for this year or even with the payment of dividends? Or are you going to sell assets? Do you have any perspective of reducing the cost of the debt.

I'll start here and then you complete Paula. Lucas, thank you for your question. I think this work that we have been carrying out on the P and the I and now on the Q. They give us trust that we invert the trajectory drop of revenue on core. And we have the expectation of resuming revenue growth in all segments for 2025. I think this work has the result. It's an accomplishment that in 2025 is the turning year. And in 2025, we expect to invert this trend and start delivering the result of this focus of the whole company of sustainable growth of top line. The top line sustainable growth will enable us to have improvement in cash generation because it comes with quality, and we do expect the organic leverage reduction in 2025, despite the adverse scenarios coming from the SELIC rate increase. So we have been able to deliver good EBITDA conversion rates on cash, able to actually sustain this deterioration in the cost of the debt because of the increase in the SELIC rate. So we have a reduction of 70 points. We are able to reduce or to absorb part of this cost. And the other one is actually the improvement in cash generation from the standpoint of inorganic initiatives. We're always looking out to evaluating opportunities, keeping our radar open and conversations ready once the market and the horizon less crowded. We have the ability of proceeding to things that are interesting that deliver value to our shareholders. With regards to dividends, I think it's important to stress that we're doing 2025 minimum mandatory dividends corresponding to companies that are profitable.

Very clear. Thank you, Atila. Lucas I think Atila answered quite well, but I can -- I'd like to go straight to the point which is the growth in our revenue. Lucas, we are on the right track.

Our next question is from [ Eduardo Resende ] from UBS.

My question would be regarding capital allocation. More specifically Inspirali, if you comment a bit on payment dynamics of dividends to minority, how have you been discussing with partners considering this scenario of medical schools looking at Mais Medicos 3, the ordinances. If the world is to focus on Mais Medicos or if you have another M&A pipeline looking at [indiscernible] come at a more attractive valuation. The second question is on Inspirali's margin. We understand the dynamics of course maturation that tends to have a higher cost more towards the end. So not considering the new Mais Medicos course that will start ahead. I'd like to see how you see the margin of Inspirali if it may have stabilized? Or if you see more margin gains ahead? This is what I would have in terms of questions.

Thank you, Eduardo, for your questions. I'm going to start talking a bit about the growth avenues for Inspirali. Obviously, we talk about continuous education opportunities. It's an important growth avenue. We still have representativeness that is smaller regarding our results, but with relevant growth rates. We have some growth avenues in the undergraduate schools. Mais Medicos 3 is very relevant. We have some ordinances or rather injections that are still under evaluation. We have appeals, and we have the possibility of increasing our seats in the existing courses. So these are the organic avenues, but we have never stopped, and we keep on looking at inorganic opportunities. The market as a whole has been less liquid for transactions as we -- the Supreme Court topic creates a precedent or reassurance for talks to be resumed, of course, the high interest rates lead to a symmetry value perception between public and private companies. This is natural. But it's also cyclic. We've seen this other times in this industry, and we know this tends to settle in the future. So we're still very active with conversations that are important and always believe that Inspirali because it's part of the Anima ecosystem because it has history of taking good care of the brands of improving and learning from the companies that join our ecosystem places us in a position that is very important in those conversations, especially with medical schools. With regards to margins, we believe that we have reached a level of maturity that is quite relevant. That is our seats are mostly mature and this level that we have delivered in the results of 2024 is a sustainable level and then with lifelong learning, where we have may lead to a change in the mix of margin profile. Regarding dividend policy, I'd like to ask Atila to comment on it to decision of shareholders. Well, we, at Inspirali have this policy of minimum distribution of dividends, but I would like to ask Atila to comment on it because he represents the controlling shareholder of the company.

So our bylaws actually provides for distribution, 25% of net income of the previous fiscal year. And any difference on that it comes from the partners the best use of cash for the shareholders, depending on the M&A agenda, investments and reprofiling of the debt in practice the decision is in line with our bylaws, which is 25% of our net income of the previous fiscal year.

Next question is from Marcelo Santos from JPMorgan.

The first question is for Guilherme regarding, there was an increase in supply because of the injection. Some have launched new courses. Have you felt some kind of pressure in any of your marketplaces? Anything that you could share or is it still business as usual? This is the first question. Can you see any impact? Fewer candidates perceive a good number of candidates, sometimes they're not so good quality. So I'd like to go deeper into the demand. Second question would be regarding distance learning. You had a very good margin in 2024 -- great margin and upward trend, is this trend that is sustainable as it reached a sort of a flat level within Anima? So those are the 2 questions.

Well, thank you, Marcelo. As I mentioned in some previous questions, the market act and suffers impacts locally. We don't see any impact level of nationally regarding our ability of attracting a quality student. But because we are present in various regions in Brazil, we actually have observed changes in the dynamics specifically in one marketplace or another. But we are very confident that our positioning contemplates a strength of attractiveness of the brands, locations and also a competitive environment of each marketplace. Well, we are, as I said during the presentation, we are at a level in which we are quite confident at least with our positioning that is defined market-by-market, brand-by-brand. As I said, this is a game that is being played in the micro location level.

Marcelo, regarding Distance Learning, we have carried out several initiatives in addition to scale gains, operating leverage, produces great margin. It's important of this margin gain that you see in 2024 comes from the operating leverage. And over the year, we did very -- many things or actions to unify our structure.This actually allowed us to gain in our G&A. This margin level is consistent, and we should see that moving on forward, we're talking about 2025. But for 2026, we have to see the effect that will come from the regulatory changes that is about to be published. We're looking forward to seeing that. But considering current situations, this level of margin is quite consistent.

Next question is from Samuel Alves, BTG Pactual.

Two questions on our side. The first well, recently, so an important player in Sao Paulo actually started a proceeding of legal recovery. So will this create a window of growth potential of student base? Just to understand if on the commercial side, you would have some color to share with us. And second question regarding to this one is the core group student base growth. Well, Atila mentioned the growth -- the focus on Q1 2025. You commented there would be space for growth -- revenue growth in all segments. Do you see growth space of student base growth in 2025?

Samuel, thank you for your question. We have Sao Paulo and we have [indiscernible] one. We have to follow closely the movements that you mentioned. And at the moment, we have no great impact to highlight. But we have the duty of following closely this judicial restructuring of the player. But currently, we don't see an important change in the competitive scene. On the change in the student base, we should expect an impact of our attraction on the blue, as Paula said, we should start seeing an inversion of trajectory and the student base as well. We expect it to be more or less stable, maybe a bit below, but we have the expectation that this is more than offset by the ticket, which has been our focus and the reason why we understand we are very confident about our ability of resuming growth in revenue. And as we see this attraction moving back to blue, we understand that in the short term, we'll see this outlook of seeing in our quarterly releases, the growth in the base as well. But currently, we are working on a scenario close to stability.

Reminding everyone that -- right, Atila, that in keeping that in blue, we have the retention that is very good, important focus jointly with the growth in ticket, keeping this trajectory of valuing our quality revenue. This is the challenge of things, keep growth in intake, retention and ticket growth to have this revenue growth and also to have, as you put it quite well, we should see this evolution, this recomposition, so to speak.

Thank you, Paula, Atila. Well, in interest of time, we're going to close our earnings results call. I'd like to thank you all very much. For those who have not had their questions answered, feel free to contact us through our channels. Investor Relations will be totally available to clarify any questions you may have. Thank you very much. Have a good day, and see you next time. Thank you very much.