Nippon Life India Asset Management Limited (NAMINDIA) Earnings Call Transcript & Summary

Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Nippon Life Asset Management Q3 FY '25 Earnings Conference Call hosted by InCred Equities. [Operator Instructions] I now hand the conference over to Mr. Jignesh Shial from InCred Equities. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Yes. Thanks, Manav, and good evening, everyone. On behalf of InCred Equities, I welcome all to Nippon Life India Asset Management, Q3 FY '25 Earnings Conference Call. We have, along with us, Mr. Sundeep Sikka, Executive Director and CEO; and the senior management team of Nippon Life India Asset Management. We are thankful to the management for allowing us this opportunity. I would now like to hand it over to Mr. Sundeep Sikka, Executive Director and CEO of Nippon Life India Asset Management for his opening remarks. Over to you, sir.

Thanks, Jignesh. Good evening, and welcome to our Q3 FY '25 Earnings Conference Call. We have with us our Chief Financial Officer, Parag Joglekar; Chief Business Officer, Saugata Chatterjee; Deputy Chief Financial Officer, Amol Bilagi; Chief Digital Officer, Arpanarghya Saha; Head ETF, Arun Sundaresan; Head AIF, Ashish Chugani; Deputy Head AIF, Aashwin Dugal; and Shin Matsui-San, Nominee of Nippon Life Japan. I would first like to share key highlights of our performance in the quarter. And post that, I will hand it over to Parag to speak in greater detail on the recent industry trends as well as the performance, post which we will move to question and answers. Coming to the key highlights, I would like to start by mentioning that as of Q3 FY '25 NAM India was the fastest-growing AMCs among the top AMCs on a YTD basis as well as 1-year, 2-year and 3-year period. This has led to a continued increase in our overall AUM and equity AUM market share. Further, our equity sales market share and SIP market share remains well above the equity AUM market share. We achieved high single-digit market share in terms of equity net sales, while our SIP market share moved to double digits in this quarter. Further, NAM India has achieved its highest ever quarterly operating profit at INR 3.76 billion. I would also like to share Nippon Life India Asset Management Limited has set up a branch in GIFT City and has taken a fund management entity license to manage the funds. First, GIFT fund, Nippon Large Cap Fund GIFT was launched in Jan 2025. The Feeder fund will invest in our existing large cap mutual funds, which has long and proven track record. More fund launches are in pipeline and will likely happen later during the calendar year. Lastly, to conclude my comments, I would like to state that we will endeavor to continue our journey of profitable growth going forward, including scaling up of non-mutual fund businesses. Now I would like to hand over the call to Parag for further details on the industry and our performance.

Thank you, Sundeep, and good evening to everybody. Let me start off with remarks on the markets. So equity markets in Q3 FY '25 witnessed a drop from prior quarter levels. The Nifty declined by 8.4% quarter-on-quarter while the nifty mid-cap and small cap indices declined by 5.2% and 3.6%, respectively. RBI held the repo-rate steady at 6.5% in while the 10-year G-sec yield increased marginally by 1 basis quarter-on-quarter to 6.76%. Coming to data on the mutual fund industry. Industry quarterly average AUM grew by 3.6% quarter-on-quarter and 39% year-on-year in Q3 FY '25 to INR 68.6 trillion. The share of equity in overall AUM remained relatively flat quarter-on-quarter, ending at 60.8% for the Q3 FY '25. Now moving to the industry flows. The equity category, excluding index fund and arbitrage fund, witnessed a gross inflow of INR 2.53 trillion and net inflow of INR 1.39 trillion. Gross inflows were lower quarter-on-quarter. However, net inflows were higher for sixth successive quarter. Categories with the highest inflows were sectoral thematic funds, multi-cap and flexi-cap funds. Moving on to SIP investments via the SIP route further increased with the SIP contribution for the quarter being INR 771 billion, up 49% Y-o-Y and 8% Q-on-Q. Monthly SIP flows in December 2024, stood at INR 265 billion, which was another all-time high. The fixed income category witnessed a net inflow of INR 438 billion, which was lower on a quarter-on-quarter basis. The ETF category had a net inflow of INR 143 billion. At the end of the quarter, unique investor in the mutual fund industry increased to 52.6 million, that is an increase of 25% Y-o-Y. Now moving to our business performance. We closed the quarter with total assets under management of INR 6.56 trillion. This includes mutual funds, managed accounts and offshore funds. Our mutual fund quarterly average AUM grew 3.8% quarter-on-quarter and 51% year-on-year to reach INR 5.7 trillion. We had the highest increase in quarterly average AUM market share on year-on-year basis among all AMCs. I would now like to share a few key highlights for the quarter. Starting with the market share, our market share increased 1 basis quarter-on-quarter and 63 basis year-on-year to 8.31%. This is the seventh successive quarter of the market share increase that we have witnessed. Our equity market share also continues to improve. It increased by 3 basis quarter-on-quarter and 31 basis year-on-year to 6.99%. This is our highest equity market share post December 2020. The share of equity AUM in our overall AUM was flat quarter-on-quarter at 51.1% for the quarter 3 FY '25. We achieved the highest single-digit market share in net sales in the equity plus hybrid segment in Q3 FY '25. However, excluding NFO, our market share would be in double digits. We continue to have the largest base of mutual fund industry with 20 million unique investors. We are humbled to have over 1 in 3 new mutual fund investors, invest with us. I would also like to touch upon some of the important aspect of our systematic book. I'm happy to share that, there has been a continued uptick in our systematic flows over the last 14 quarters, which has led to an increase in market share. SIP market share increased by 12 basis to 10% over September 2024 to December 2024. This also represents an increase of 396 basis over March 2023 when our SIP market share was 6%. Our monthly systematic book rose by 7% quarter-on-quarter and 60% year-on-year to INR 33.6 billion for December 2024. This resulted in an annualized systematic book of INR 404 billion. Moving on briefly to the ETF segment. We continue to be one of the largest ETF player with AUM of INR 1.5 trillion and a market share of 18.14%, which has increased by 278 basis year-on-year. Our share in the industry's ETF folios is 55%. We also have a 55% share of ETF volumes on NSE and BSE. Our ETF average daily volumes across key funds remain far higher than the rest of the industry. To further augment our passive offering, we launched 2 new products in the index fund category in the quarter namely the Nippon India Nifty Realty Index Fund and Nippon India Nifty Auto Index Fund. Moving on to the digital franchise. Digital purchase transactions rose to INR 4.08 million in Q3 FY '25, up 141% year-on-year. Digital business contributed 73% of the total new purchase transactions in Q3 FY '25. We are excited to announce groundbreaking features on our mutual fund Android app voice integration aimed at making investment easier, inclusive, empowering for all. This feature has been thoughtfully designed to enable seamless transactions through voice command, introducing the power of conversational commerce to redefine how the investor interacts. With this innovation, every investor, including differently abled individuals can experience independence and ease in managing their investments. Now I would like to briefly update on our subsidiaries, namely AIF and Singapore subsidiaries. Starting off with AIF. Under Nippon AIF, we offer category 2 and category 3 AIFs. And have a total commitment of INR 69.8 billion across various schemes. Fundraising is currently underway for our listed equity AIFs, performing credit AIFs, and direct VC funds. Fund deployment across all the strategies was robust in Q3 FY '25 with 5 active investments in performing credits and full deployment in our tech VC [indiscernible]. The team has been strengthened across the functions, which positions us very well for the future. On the offshore front, we continued to witness good equity inflows in the quarter from various incremental geographies. Offshore AUM grew 34% year-on-year to INR 167 billion with our UCITS equity fund, reaching an AUM of USD 530 million. We continue to expand our footprint in the Japanese institutional space in conjunction with Nissay Asset Management, Japan. A new offering in the India mid-cap and small-cap space, which has been our focus in the domestic market have now been made available to international investors, providing additional option for the investor to invest into Indian equities. We continue to work with Nissay Asset Management, Japan on these new offerings and the market in its -- in the Japanese retail space. Now onto our financial performance. For Q3 FY '25, revenue stood at INR 5.88 billion, up 39% year-on-year and 3% quarter-on-quarter. Other income stood at INR 0.15 billion, down 86% year-on-year and 87% quarter-on-quarter. Movement in other income was on account of mark-to-market impact on the investment book and was impacted by adverse capital market moment during the quarter. Operating expenses stood at INR 2.12 billion, up 23% year-on-year and 3% quarter-on-quarter. Excluding impact of ESOP, operating expenses grew 17% year-on-year for Q3 and 19% year-on-year for 9 months FY '25, driven mainly by investment in talent, non-MF business and technology infrastructure. Operating profit stood at INR 3.76 billion, up 50% year-on-year and 3% quarter-on-quarter. Profit after tax stood at INR 2.95 billion, up 4% year-on-year and down 18% quarter-on-quarter. On 9-month FY '25, operating profit grew by 55% Y-o-Y. Profit after tax grew by 29% Y-o-Y. We would also like to mention that we have rationalized distribution costs for existing AUM in our large cap and multi-cap schemes in the quarter, which have a combined AUM of approximately INR 760 billion, while also moving to a proportionate sharing model on these schemes going forward. We will continue evaluating opportunity for similar rationalizer in other schemes as well. With this, I would like to conclude my remarks and open the floor for questions.

[Operator Instructions] We have a first question from the line of Swarnabha Mukherjee from B&K Securities.

Congrats on a great set of numbers. Three questions from my side. Firstly, I wanted to understand in this first few days of this quarter, how are you seeing in terms of flows spanning out in the organization? Is there any kind of pressure coming because of the market performance? So just wanted to understand how the flows are panning out? Of course, in December, we have seen that the SIP flow numbers are very steady for you guys it has in fact increased quarter-on-quarter, but I wanted to get that color for January. So sir, that would be my first question. Second is, if you could elaborate a little bit on the rationalization that you have done the proportional sharing how it has high impact on the yields for the equity segment? And when exactly in the quarter, you have done that? And should we expect some favorable impact on the yields in the coming quarter as well? And thirdly, sir, in terms of the other expenses, so just wanted to understand that given the market movement and maybe near term the equity even growth might not be like what we have seen in the earlier quarters. How should we read the other expenses number going forward? Should we be planning to curtail on our variable expenses? So these are my 3 questions. And also if you could also share the yields of the different asset classes that would be very helpful.

Sure, Swarnabha. So thank you for the question. I'll take the other expenses question first, and then I will hand it over to Saugata for the close question. So other expenses, there is slightly an increase mainly due to the investment, which we have done in technology and our AIF business. So that has slightly taken off the other expenses. But our endeavor is to keep the overall expenses ex of ESOP in the range of around 15% to 16% to 17% range only. That is our endeavor over going forward and futuristic also. So that is the one. And on the yield question, the equity yield in the range of around 57 basis, the debt yield is in the range of around 25 basis, liquid remain more or less 10 to 12 basis, flattish. ETF is 15 basis and the blended yield is 37 basis.

Parag. On the flows side, at least the early trends in the month of January does not indicate any sort of distortion. We are more or less at par with the December numbers. But we'll wait and see how it goes, how the behavior of the SIP and the HNI investors come in as we go ahead from here on, because the trends are quite volatile, but initial trends do not indicate any major shift of flows from a December comparison.

The only thing I'd like to also add is that the thing -- whenever we have seen in past markets are volatile, it is the HNI flows which has to slow down. The retail and SIPs, I think they continue to add stability. So we do not expect unless and until it is a very prolonged 12 to 18 months kind of a volatility continues from here. We do not expect the retail SIPs load to slowdown.

And Swarnabha, on the rationalization question you asked. So yes, we have recently done in the end of the -- almost last end of the quarter. So the impact may not be seen in the current quarter. There will be some going forward. But on the overall AUM, it will be very flattish on miniscule. And going forward, it will help us to a certain extent to streamline the yield. That is the only thing I can comment.

Sir, the proportional sharing method, would that imply that it will allow you to consistently pass on the reduction in tier on the back book going forward?

Yes, your understanding is correct.

So does that mean that should the equity yield dilution that we have seen so far would be at a lower level than what we have seen like -- maybe we remaining in this mid-50s kind of a number, even if the AUM growth is there? Would that be a fair estimation?

I think we won't like to be able to give the number, but as we said directionally, that's the objective of the proportionate sharing.

We have our next question from the line of Prayesh Jain from Motilal Oswal.

Sir, just on this extending the point on the adjustments that you've done to the commissions. And so -- why did this chose these 2 schemes and why not some of the other large schemes like a small cap, probably it has one of the largest AUMs. So why not on that as well? Or do you think that you're probably going down the road, you would start doing it for the entire space. Is there any initial signs where the distributors have kind of raised some concerns around it? And whether the entire industry is kind of moving towards it?

I think I'll take the second part of the question, I will not be able to comment on behalf of the industry because as mentioned many times in the past, every company shareholders will have a different objective. I think from our point of view profitable growth is the key, that is point number one. You have question, why scheme A, why not scheme B? I think it's not -- I think the way you should see small cap has already been done. Large cap has been done. Multi-cap has available now. Both have been -- all the 3 schemes put together, the average AUM is about 45% to 50%. So I think directionally, I think you can understand which way we are going.

Got that. Sir, second question was on the SIP closures and the SIP run rate that people have been and media has been alluding to the number of SIP closures are going up significantly in the past couple of months. Whether that is reflective of the kind of growth we saw 3 years ago when there's like some -- Zerodha grow up, Angle One kind of -- right now started their mutual fund operations and started scaling up. Is that kind of tenure closure that's happening? Or what is the kind of trajectory we should be seeing here now?

So Prayesh, I think the SIP trends, we have already previewed the industry trends. Industry has seen a higher percentage of discontinuation in the month of December, which is around 70s in the mid-70s. But what happens, these are again, cyclical stuff. We'll have to keep seeing like Sundeep mentioned, we have seen in the past the SIP customer of the past and in the last 2, 3 years are more resilient. Hopefully, these percentages may not be the norm as we go ahead. In our case, we have percentage discontinuation is much lesser than the industry numbers. So which again shows that if we have been able to get to more retail customers, more fragmented customer, that's our business model. We have better retention in our SIP book. We'll have to wait and see how it goes. But trends don't show that we will be -- our SIP behavior should be much better than the industry behavior.

But the past trend, whenever there's a volatility tells us, higher the ticket size of SIP, are being there the once they get discontinued, more retail you have the retail, they are more sticky.

Okay. Okay. Got that. And the other bit and the last question is on the international business. Any thoughts that you can share as to what is your 3-year kind of targets or any aspirations in terms of AUM size and revenue potential out of that business that can accrue to the company?

I think as we have mentioned in the past also, I think the widely focus for the company has been to raise more offshore money. But the last 4, 5 years, it was important for us to consolidate our position on the mutual fund side, and that was where a lot of energies were put. With the mutual fund business doing well now, and I think market share increasing, at this past time, we are working closely with Nippon Life Japan, Nissay Asset Management Japan and other associate companies of Nippon across the globe. It will be difficult for us to give a number. But I think all I can say is I think at this point of time, we are more positive than ever before because a lot of funds are getting launched, a lot of dialogues are on. And I think you will -- as and when we have more numbers to report, we'll keep coming to you. But directionally, we seem to be -- you can expect more positive flows come into an addition top line and bottom line.

We have our next question from the line of Madhukar Ladha from Nuvama Wealth Management.

So most of my questions have been answered. I just have one question on the other income. So we've seen a very sharp drop in other income. But when I look at your exposure to equities that's much lower. So for example, it's at about INR 500 crores of a total book of INR 3,300 crores. So can you give a little bit of color on the breakup of this mark-to-market movement? How much of it is equity and debt, if you have that split?

So Madhukar, I will just give you the broader picture. So basically, we have our alternate asset business also, where we have to put a lot of money in the seed capital of the schemes, which we have launched, which is mainly in category 3, which are all equity schemes. And there, we invest in listed equity. So there, we have seen a lot of movement because there the majority money goes in equity. And in the NAM side, whatever seed capital requirement, which we have to do, which we have done, which has some impact due to mark-to-market losses on the equity in the market.

But this is largely only driven by equity?

Yes. Equity in AIF.

And it is getting bit impacted in the consolidated.

We have our next question from the line of Mohit Mangal from Centrum Broking.

First thing I wanted to ask in terms of the total number of branches, while we have seen your competition opening a little -- lot more branches. I think we are not very keen on that side in terms of expansion. So just wanted to know your thoughts in terms of the next 10 to 12 months are you intending to expand?

So just from our perspective, I don't think you'll see us opening substantial number of branches. There could be -- even if it is, it would be very -- it will not be likely competition. I think we believe I think increasing the efficiency of the existing branches, we already have a big number of the largest network. And we believe leveraging technology to get more efficiency from both physically as well as online and offline part of our business. So I think we will not -- we do not intend to open multiple branches.

Okay. Got it. And in terms of the product pipeline, I mean, you told they have -- launched a couple of the things in the passive side are now, say, going next 2 to 3 quarters, do you have any product pipeline?

So we'll continue launching some as mentioned in the last few quarterly calls, we will continue launching a few schemes in our passive business. Having said that, we have taken an internal view that we will not be launching any active mega NFOs. Broadly, the strategy of the company will be to keep launching funds, have them build up a track record and gradually let business come. We believe NFOs distract the company and impact the overall flows, which are much more stable. So we'll continue focusing on ongoing sales, SIPs, only new launches that you will see will be in our passive. And even if there is a scope for us to launch a scheme in active, we will not like to go for mega NFO.

All right. Got it. Just one clarification that we continue to maintain double-digit market share in the equity and hybrid schemes in the flows segment?

Yes.

We have our next question from the line of Manas Agarwal from Sanford C. Bernstein.

Yes, I had 2 questions. One is, can you help us understand what is the management fee or expense ratio for the GIFT feeder fund. What I want to understand is, is pricing better at a consol level for the entity if money comes in from this route?

Sort of broadly because it's going to be feeding into the existing fund. I think -- I don't think so it's going to be for the pricing is more -- more to do with the volumes. I think it gives us an access to international investors to invest. So a certain set of investors who could not invest or it was not easy for them to invest, they will have an access to come in to large cap fund. But the pricing of the underlying remains the same.

Underlying is same, okay, understood. The other thing I wanted to understand is this year, industry flows from mainly households into active equity trending 2x of previous year? Now a lot of this is lump sum, I understand. But how should one think about growth in flows from here, because markets have also cooled down. I wanted some understanding on that, how you are thinking or how the industry would think about this?

I wish I had the answer for that. I cannot predict future how things will be. But I think from our point of view what the way we see it is, I think over the last 5 years, you are seeing a very strong focus on SIPs. We strongly believe lump-sum will always get impacted whenever the markets are volatile, to the extent our SIP market share has gone up from 5% to 10% in the last 24 months and is moving up faster. So which gives us a cushion, even if the markets were to slow down or the incremental flows were to slow down. So from our point of view, it will be more qualitative growth. We will not be worried too much about lump-sum. But for sure, we are a part of the industry. If markets turn volatile or negative, they definitely impacts the sentiment, and there could be a slowdown compared to where the flows have been coming down.

We have our next question from the line of Abhijeet Sakhare from Kotak Securities.

The first question is, again, coming back to the commission cuts. Is it possible to give an indication of what would be the basis point impact on the opening book for these 2 schemes starting 4Q?

So Abhijeet, it's very difficult to specifically mention on that, but the idea is to overall -- the slowdown in the overall yield should have some reduction. That is the ideal because we keep on getting new flows and the AUM keep on growing. So it is difficult to mention on it. But overall basis, it will be very small because the overall impact will be not much on the overall equity yields.

So Abhijeet, what it shows is the direction of flow direction of the company which we have had in which direction we are going.

Got it. So the way to look at it would be that because these schemes are gathering a lot of flows. So instead of the usual decline in yields, you would probably target the yields to remain flat over the next few quarters, right?

So the idea is basically to slow down the pace of the fall in yields basically, that is the whole idea.

Got it. Got it. And then again, sorry, sticking to the same point. So now you have kind of cut commissions on large cap, small and multi-cap, right, like these would be the 3 largest schemes for you? And then in your initial remarks, you mentioned that you would look at continuing some of these measures going ahead. So would you look at these same set of schemes because I think any commission cuts elsewhere probably would not have a similar impact, right?

I think the team continues evaluating depending on the market condition, situations and the environment. So I think it will be difficult to give us an answer. But directionally, we will keep rationalizing and be conscious of that the fall is arrested.

And second question was it possible to give the number for ESOP costs in 3Q?

Yes, it's already been mentioned also. So the ESOP cost for Q3, sorry...

ESOP of Q3 was around INR 11 crores. For 9 months is INR 31-odd crores.

Got it. Got it. And sir, your guidance on OpEx, you stripped out ESOP, right? So I just wanted to ensure if there is anything to look forward to over the next 12 months that could move the overall OpEx line beyond that 17% number you mentioned?

I don't see anything specific. But obviously, as I mentioned earlier, that we will keep on investing in technology and other things. And we will keep on investing in our alternate business and other subsidiaries. So that we will keep on doing. But there is nothing specific we can see.

We have our next question from the line of Madhukar Ladha from Nuvama Wealth Management.

So just coming back to the distributor commission rationalization. So 50% of the AUM has been done. Now do you envisage that the other 50% will also be sort of -- you will also be taking measures on that over the next few quarters. Could you give some outlook on that? Yes, that's the only thing.

So Madhukar, to -- I mean, at this point of time, we may not have specifics to share, but whether the reduction will continue in the existing schemes or we'll extend it to all other schemes. I think that's, as I mentioned earlier, we'll continue evaluating. But I think the guidance that we are giving is the directional approach is that I think we'll try to arrest the downfall that was there in it.

We have a question from the line of Prayesh Jain from Motilal Oswal.

Cash balance, we were at around INR 4,300-odd crores at the end of June. Now we are at around INR 3,300 crores is primarily dividend, right?

So it's on account of 2 factors, one is, as you rightly mentioned, dividend and another that have invested in our corporate office space. So that is -- these are the 2 reasons why there is a drop in the investment assets.

Okay. And just another clarification there. When you say the AIF seed fund, this is sitting in other assets, right?

Sorry?

The breakup that you've given on the contribution of financial effects, the seed funds of AIF that you would have invested that would be sitting in other assets category?

Yes. Yes, you're right. Yes.

So that is sitting there in other assets, right?

Yes, yes.

We have our next question from the line of Shreya Shivani from CLSA.

I have -- my question is on the offshore business. So just wanted to understand if you could help us understand this book usually is not volatile, usually picks up pace and continues. I mean maybe here and there, I can see a decline. This time sequentially, there's been a decline. So just trying to understand what exactly plays out in terms of book declining at this pace? I get that you've given the mix between managed and advisory, but even there, there can be -- there is a slight bit of decline. I just want to understand what happens in this business that it can change directions at this stage?

So I think the movement in the asset that you're looking at is mainly due to mark-to-market majorly in the flow of the assets.

Okay, okay. So this may not be reflective of lack of -- like not reflective of redemptions, more to do with mark-to-markets, right?

Yes.

But there can be like higher redemptions also that can come through, if my understanding is correct?

Nobody can predict redemptions, but I think at this point of time, for the results that we've declared, we have not seen any redemptions.

[Operator Instructions] The next question is from the line of Yashodhan Nerurkar from Ionic Wealth.

So the first question that I had was on the ETF business. So we have seen a sharp scale up from, say, FY 2018 levels to 2024. As a percentage of your total AUM has gone up to somewhere around 26%, 27%. And if I consider -- I mean, amongst the passives, the retentions are higher than liquid funds as well. So what plans do you have in terms of scaling this part of the business as well? Because as I see -- I mean, it has got a tremendous potential, you already have significant head start in terms of the volumes in terms of the market share. So how do you see this business how lucrative is it for you? And what do you see the growth for this business?

So I think broadly, you're right. I think we have a head start. I think we were one of the early ones to invest into this business. And we clearly believe both active and passive will continue to grow. There are different set of investors who will continue investing in active and in passive. Our objective is to help these clients in the center and -- whatever decision investor wants to do, whether he wants to come to active or passive, we'll try to offer the best in both to them. Coming to future, I think we remain very, very optimistic about the passive business. And the pace that it is growing, I think clearly -- it's already demonstrated in the numbers. About our future plans, I think we clearly, as mentioned earlier, we may launch certain new schemes. But one good thing about this business is if you look at globally also this business, normally, I mean, the top 2, 3 players, continue commanding higher market share because of liquidity, low tracking error and various other parameters. Unless mutual funds typically, where an investor will invest in 5 to 6 different schemes, because in ETFs and passive the underlying is the same. I think we do not over diversify. So I think we believe we'll continue building on the head start that we have and continue building other products soon. At this point of time, we have 48 passive products. We may launch a couple of more, but this business is all about scale. And I think from a more than basis points, we believe with the kind of AUM that we have and the basis that we're earning, it is now adding substantially to our bottom line.

All right. Perfect. That's helpful. And another question that I had was on the SIP discontinuation that you have faced. You already said that they are lower than the industry. But I mean, is there any efforts taken from your end to minimize the discontinuations or the cancellation, because I'm sure there would be people who will be pausing SIP for a month or 2. So is there any initiatives from your end that you might be reaching out to the investors and trying to somehow make sure the cancellations will go through?

I think let me answer it in 2 ways. I think first, I think definitely, there is an ongoing effort from the company by reaching out, I think we have basically created in the portfolio while we have roughly about 3 crore folios. I think we have micro, I think we try to segment investors into different categories based that artificial intelligence and data is used and a different kind of handholding, centralize handholding is done, the kind of creates better than that is one part. But I'll go a step back a little. I think it's more -- it's not about what we do after I think we acquired the investor. I think the quality of sourcing depends, basically that is a very important thing. If you are trying to get investors which are more, I mean, like I mentioned earlier, more HNI, I think they typically are little more volatile. And -- but when we sourcing, we lower the SIP size, getting smaller citizen towns. We have seen these SIPs are more stable and they do not discontinue when the markets are volatile. So it's a mix of both the things, both while sourcing also as well as continuous efforts are done by the digital team.

Okay. All right. And just a last question that I had on -- was on total AUM. So if I consider just the equity AUM, roughly half of it has contributed by just 3 to 4 schemes, the larger ones. And you said that you don't want to launch any newer schemes and your focus remains towards scaling the existing ones. But I mean, most of the schemes that are there in equity, they are still below, say, INR 10,000, INR 5000 crores of AUM. So what -- I mean, how do you intend to scale those up? And what are your plans for those schemes?

So I think you're right, a couple of schemes are below INR 10,000. I think it's -- we do not want to aggressively push any particular scheme against that we have stayed away. I think it's -- we've seen in the industry, the thematic funds have been getting a lot of allocations. I think we do not want to push funds where we do not believe. I think we believe majority of the investors should be in the -- within our products, large cap, small cap, mid cap, that is thematic funds. So I think we are in no hurry to scale up the schemes because some of the schemes have been -- these are niche schemes that the sectoral funds are all. We let the advisers and investors take the call. But from a perspective, what they've mentioned, we will not launch schemes. Please read the schemes as NFOs. We make continue adding schemes, but we do not want to launch mega NFOs, which we believe the assets are not sticky.

Right. So basically, it's going to be an approach where any investor -- so you have all the options open, so any investor that he chooses right option for him, he can go towards this. So that's the kind of thought process that you have towards the investors?

Perfect. You're right.

We have next question from the line of Ankit Bihani from Nomura.

Congrats on a good set of numbers. So my question is on the performance of the 2 top equity schemes that you have small and multi-cap, which have seen a slight softness in performance over the 6 to 9 months. So are you seeing any slowdown of inflows into these schemes given that mutual fund distributors, while pushing their scheme, I think recent performance may be a 6 months or 1-year performance becomes a selling point for them?

Yes. So Ankit, I'll take this question. See what happens, it is a matter, like Sundeep was mentioning, what is our method of getting equity assets in our company has always been retail, has always been explaining to the distributors that you should look at 3-year, 5-year, it's not longer performance. Even if the 6 months, 9-month performance has slightly dipped, the 3-year, 5 years makes sense. So I think it's continuous education, communication, telling them about the processes, what we have built in this company. I think that's what probably is helping us to keep retain the flows and moving the direction of the distraction from near-term performance to long-term performance.

So what do you mean to say is the flows are resilient in these schemes, if you have not seen any slowdown?

Yes. I think broadly, I think your understanding is correct. I think one more thing I'd like to mention, this is not only about our schemes. I think what we've seen is the distributors and the investors have matured a lot. They understand equities 6, 9 months is nothing. I mean you'll always have this glitch, you're not investing in fixed income. So I don't think so they react to it the way they used to react about 5 years back or 10 years back. So I think it is not only for us. I think going forward, you'll see schemes, which have a long-term track record, even if there's a blip for 6 months, 1 year, I think you will not see the kind of reaction what you used to see in the past, because investors are also understanding and appreciating an equity has to be a long-term view. And 3 to 5 years is what needs to be looked at not 6 months of 1 year.

As there are no further questions, I now hand the conference over to Mr. Jignesh Shial for closing comments. Over to you, sir.

Yes. Thank you. Thank you, everyone, on behalf of InCred Equities, I would like to once again thank the management of [indiscernible].

Thank you for joining the call.

On behalf of InCred Equities, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.